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Archive/File: holocaust/poland/reinhard/belzec pavli.001
Last-Modified: 1994/08/17
Source: United States Department of Justice

Copy
                          MINUTES OF INTERROGATION

                The City of Stalino    November 17, 1949

I, the deputy director of the Department in the Investigations
Division of the State Ministry of Defense in the Dirstict of Stalino,
Lt. Klaimoanov, interrogated the accused -

Nikolai Antonevitch Pavli, born 1921, in the village of
Staro-Michailowka, in the area of Marinsk, District of Stalino,
Ukrainian, USSR citizen, of peasant stock, working as a replacement
civil engineer in the agricultural department of the General Council
in the area of Mizewski in the District of Dniepropetrowsk, not a
party member, married, secondary education, served in the Soviet army
from 5/X/40 to 16/VII/41 and from 2/VII/45 to 21/V/46, has no state
decorations, no criminal past. 

Before arrest, he lived in the village of Kamanka, Lenin Street, area
of Mizewski, District of Dniepropetrowsk. Arrested by the State
Ministry of Defense of the Stalino District on November 10, 1949.

Question: Specify the circumstances under which you were captured by
enemy forces in July 1941.

Answer: While I was a range soldier of a 120 mm. battery in artillery
regiment 115, division 75, at the time of military activity in the
direction of the city of Kowil, our unit was surrounded by the enemy.
His unit tried to break through in the direction of our forces but was
unsuccessful and after this everyone split up in different directions
with the objective of reaching our forces in groups.

I and the soldier Rafalnikow (I do not recall his forename or his
father's name) advanced on our own. On the way, a vehicle 11-1 stood
on the road, having been abandoned by retreating Soviet forces. I know
how to drive and, together with Rafalnikow, we tried to start the
vehicle and continue in the direction, but we were suddenly overtaken
by German soldiers; a German officer took from us the rifle - carbine,
and under guard we were led to the township of Powursk, District of
Wollinskaya and were put into a house where there were already 20
prisoners of war.

The next morning, all the prisoners, including myself, were taken to a
township (I do not recall its name), from where we were put onto
trucks and taken to a prisoner of war camp in the town of Lutsk. Three
days later, I was taken with a large number of prisoners of war to a
railway station (I do not recall its name) and by car, we were led to
a prisoner's camp in Poland.

At the prisoner-of-war camp in the town of Chelm, I was held until
September 1941. The Germans used me as the other prisoners for various
work within the camp. Later together with a number of people, I was
conscripted by the Germans to serve in the SS force at the Trawniki
concentration camp, Lublin command, as a Wachman of the SS.

Question: Under what circumstances were you conscripted by Germans to
serve in the SS force at the Trawniki concentration camp?

Answer: I was conscripted by Germans for the SS forces in the following
circumstances:

About 26 September 1941, a German officer of the SS forces, Oberschrf
Mayewski (I do not know his forename or his father's name) came to the
prisoners' camp in the city of Chelm and ordered the camp command to
hold a parade of the prisoners in the camp. When the soldiers were
arranged on parade, he, Mayewski and an interpreter among the
prisoners (I do not know his surname, forename, or father's name)
passed through the parade and the said officer - Mayewski, selected,
according to his considerations, from among the prisoners, asking them
about their origins.

I told him that I was from Donbass and after that I was taken aside. A
group of prisoners of war who had been chosen stood there. After 60
people had been selected, myself among them, no-one told us for what
purpose we had been selected. Subsequently the group that had been
selected, including myself, was put on two trucks and taken to the
Trawniki camp, Lublin command (Poland).

Upon our arrival at the Trawniki concentration camp, we were located
in a building within the camp. For a month we were not used for work,
but just fed; we underwent a period of isolation.

After a month, we were divided into groups and began to hold basic
training. Each company had about 60 people  and at that time there
were 6 such companies. Germans - Volksdeutche from the Germans of
Russia, held the military training with us.

Question: What did they teach you, what subjects?

Answer: They taught me and the others basic training and use of
weapons - rifle and the rules for guarding prisoners. They did not
teach us other subjects.

We studied at the school for Wachmans of the SS. I took part in guard
duties at the Trebnicki camp; at that time there were no prisoners at
the camp.

During the training at the Trebnicki camp, in October or November
1941, each of us was interrogated by a member of the camp command,
filled in a form - questionnaire that was later signed by him and gave
a thumb print; then each of us was granted the title of Wachman of the
SS.

In November 1941, I was sent as part of a group of 40 Wachmans of the
SS for further service at the Belzec death camp, where I continued to
serve as a Wachman until August 1942.

Being an SS Wachman at the Belzec death camp, I guarded all the time
imprisoned civilians who were brought by the Germans from various
conquered countries for extermination in special gas chambers
"bath-houses", through suffocation gas.

The prisoners from various conquered countries would arrive by train
to the Belzec camp; under the guard of Wachmans and Germans the
prisoners would be taken off the trains and from there led to the gas
chambers, where Wachmans and Germans would force the prisoners to
undress naked, irrespective of their sex, including children.
Afterwards they would be put into the gas chambers - "bath-houses",
the doors would be hermetically closed. By the building with the gas
chambers was located the machinery division with an internal
combustion engine, from which the exhaust gas would be piped to the
chambers in which the prisoners were killed. After about 15-20
minutes, the gas chambers would be opened and work details consisting
of Jewish prisoners would remove the bodies, load them on a special
cart and take them to special pits that had been dug in advance. There
the bodies would be arranged; as the pit filled up, work details would
cover it with earth.

My participation in extermination of the people was expressed in that
on a regular basis I guarded the prisoners. When the trains arrived, I
would guard the prisoners during their disembarkation from the train,
I ensured that none of the prisoners would escape. I also accompanied
the prisoners under guard to the place where they were undressed. I
guarded the clothes while other Wachmans and Germans would take the
prisoners into the gas chambers. I also guarded the work details when
they were engaging in unloading bodies by the pits.

Apart from that, I guarded the pit to which they would bring people
for execution by shooting, from among the prisoners who had arrived by
train, since on every train there were sick prisoners. Those who could
not walk to the death camp by themselves were led by Jewish prisoners
to a pit and there a German officer would shoot them with a pistol.

From every train, about 20-30 people would be shot, depending on the
number of the sick.

During my service as an SS Wachman at the Belzec death camp, 40,000
people-prisoners were put to death, most of them through suffocation
gas.

In August 1942, I was sent as part of a group of 30 SS Wachmans for
further service at another death camp, Sobibor, Lublin command. At the
Sobibor death camp, I performed the same service as at the Belzec
death camp - I guarded imprisoned civilians that had been brought from
conquered countries by Germans for destruction in the gas chambers -
also by suffocation gas from an engine.

During my service as an SS Wachman at the Sobibor death camp, as I
testified previously, I guarded imprisoned civilians when the trains
would arrive, I guarded in order to prevent prisoners from escaping. I
accompanied them under guard to the camp for extermination. Similarly,
I took part in surrounding the pits to which the infirm and sick would
be brought by cart in order to put them to death by shooting. I
personally did not shoot at prisoners. A German officer of the SS shot
them. I and the other Wachmans only had to stand around the pit at the
time of the shooting.

Apart from that, I guarded the prisoners within the camp and also on
the watch towers around the camp.

Sometimes the Germans would take advantage of the prisoners who had
been brought to the death camp for various jobs - wood work in the
forest, and it might fall to me to accompany them to the work site. I
guarded them during the work and afterwards back to the death camp.

As I have noted, the extermination of people at the Sobibor death camp
was undertaken by suffocation gas and also by shooting.

The bodies of the people who had been put to death by gas or had been
shot were arranged in pits on a special surface by work details by the
rail lines and burned. As an SS Wachman, I also guarded the work
details.

In November 1942, I was sent in a group of 30 Wachmans through the
Trawniki concentration camp command to the city of Lublin where,
together with other Wachmans I guarded imprisoned civilians. I
accompanied them to various jobs and back. The prisoners were utilized
for various jobs, in the wood processing plant, on a farm, in
demolishing houses that had been destroyed, etc. I served as a Wachman
in the SS force in the city of Lublin until October 1943.

In October 1943, I was sent in a group of 60 SS Wachmans through the
Trawniki concentration camp command for further service in the SS
forces at a concentration camp in Flossenburg (Germany) where I
guarded prisoners and accompanied them under guard to construction
work at the aviation plant of the Messerschmidt Co. and also other
work.

Being an SS Wachman at a concentration camp in the township of
Flossenburg, I, as the other Wachmans of the SS, was given an SS
tattoo for a medical examination. I removed the letter in 1945 with
the aid of a burning cigarette after the defeat of the German forces
because I was afraid of punishment for my crimes. I served in the SS
forces of the concentration camp in the township of Flossenburg until
March 1944.

In March 1944, I was sent for further service in the SS forces at a
camp in the village of Graffenreut, where I also guarded imprisoned
civilians who were utilized by the Germans for work in Germany
military warehouses, at a brick-works and within the camp.

As the front drew near, I engaged with the other SS Wachmans in
evacuation of prisoners to the rear, but with the approach of the
American forces, all the Wachmans of the SS and the prisoners fled in
various directions. On the way, I and the SS Wachman Rafalovski (I
don't remember his forename or father's name) changed our uniforms for
civilian clothes in some township (I don't know its name).

When the American forces entered, I, as many Soviet citizens, was sent
to a transit camp in the township of Walkhuri with the aim of
returning me to my country, among many Soviet citizens who had been
taken by the Germans for work in Germany, I was transferred by the
American forces in trucks to the area of Czechoslovakia that was under
the control of the Soviet forces (I do not recall the city).
Afterwards, with many others, I was sent on foot to a camp of Soviet
citizens designated for immigration to the homeland in the city of
Zwettle (Austria) and, from this camp, in June 1945, I was conscripted
for service in the Soviet army in which I served until May 31, 1946.

Question: When and where did the conversation take place between you
and representatives of the American military authorities before your
departure for the area controlled by the Soviet forces?

Answer: Being in the area of deployment of the American forces,
representatives of the military forces held no conversation with me.

Question: Give names of people who served with you in the SS forces at
the Trawniki, Belzec, Sobibor death camps and at other camps.

Answer: The following people served together with me in the SS forces
at the death camps:

1. Ivan Werdenik (I don't know his father's name), born 1921-22,
Ukrainian, I don't know his place of origin, served in the Soviet army
as a soldier, was captured by the Germans in 1941. Being a prisoner in
the city of Chelm (Poland) he was conscripted by Germans in October
1941 to the SS forces.

He underwent together with me in the SS forces at the Trawniki
concentration camp, Lublin command the basic training, use of weapons
and studied the rules of guard-duty. In March 1942 he was sent,
together with me, for further service in the SS forces to the Belzec
concentration camp, Lublin command (Poland), where he served as an SS
Wachman until August 1942. From August 1942 until November 1942 he
served together with me as an SS Wachman at the Sobibor concentration
camp, Lublin command. In November 1942, I was sent for further service
at another camp while Werdenik continued to serve in the SS forces at
Sobibor.

As an SS Wachman, Werdenik guarded at the death camps of Belzec and
Sobibor prisoners who had been brought by Germans from various
conquered countries for extermination in the gas chambers through gas.
He participated in the extermination of Jews in that he guarded the
trains that would arrive with the prisoners. He guarded the pit where
the executions by shooting were carried out.

Distringuishing marks: Medium height, demonic, round face, straight
nose, on left arm under the armpit he has an SS tattoo. I do not
recall other marks.

2. Andrei Vassilega (I don't know his father's name), born 1914,
Ukrainian, I do not know his place of origin. Before the war, he
worked as a tailor in the city of Stalino in Petrowka. Served in the
Soviet army, captured by Germans in 1941. In September October 1941 he
was conscripted by Germans to the SS forces at the Trebnicki death
camp, Lublin command (Poland), as an SS Wachman.

At the Trawniki concentration camp, he worked as a tailor for the SS
forces.

In 1946 I saw him at Petrowska. I visited his home. In 1946 he worked
as a cutter at a sewing shop. According to rumours from people, I knew
that he had been indicted.

3. Alexander Feodorowitch Tityebski, born 1917-18, Ukrainian, resident
of the District of Stalino, doctor by profession, served in the Soviet
army, was captured by the Germans in 1941. While in captivity was
conscripted to the SS force at the Trawniki death camp, Lublin command
(Poland) as an SS Wachman. Afterwards, he served as the camp doctor.

I do not know his present whereabouts.

Distinguishing marks: Medium height, demonic, upright stature, round
face, stright nose, I do not recall other marks.

The interrogation was halted.

The minutes were recorded according to my words in correct form, were
read out to me and therefore I am signing.

The interrogation was conducted by: Deputy Director of the Department
in the Investigations Division of the State Ministry of Defense in the
District of Stalino - Major Klaimanov (Signature)

Stamp
Correct: signature

Confirmation: Nikolai Atonovitch Pavli, born 1921, was found guilty on
December 23, 1949 by a military tribunal of the Cherkov Command
according to Section 54-1 "B" of the Penal Code of the Soviet REpublic
of Ukraine and sentenced to 25 years imprisonment in labor camps.

Deputy Director of the Department in the Investigations Division of
the State Ministry of Defense in the District of Stalino Major
Klaimanov - signature.
Stamp.
Stamp - the Attorney-General of the USSR
Correct.
Director of the Office of the USSR Attorney-General - A.P. Vladimirov
- signature.
The photocopy was made from a copy in Criminal File (in the archives)
No. 56434 (Vol. 2, pp. 118-121) versus Guncherov P.N., Sherbak, N.K.
et al.
Director of the Office of the USSR Attorney-General - A.P. Vladimirov
- signature.
Stamp - the Attorney-General of the USSR

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