From holman@mappi.helsinki.fi Fri Jun 13 11:45:41 EDT 2008 Article: 1915811 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kanaga.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!ke-hupnet13-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi!user From: holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism,alt.movies.spielberg Subject: Re: Holocaust - Non-Jewish Holocaust Victims Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:12:48 +0300 Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 289 Message-ID:References: <2bqdnRSTO_xvaM3VnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vallila-gw.hupnet.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 1213351968 10755 128.214.20.122 (13 Jun 2008 10:12:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jun 2008 10:12:48 GMT User-Agent: NewsWatcher-X 2.2.3b2 Bytes: 14639 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com soc.culture.usa:2351949 alt.revisionism:1915811 alt.movies.spielberg:33746 In article , "Kurt Knoll" wrote: > War trial after world war II were show trials. The Zyklon-B trial was hardly a show trial. The management of the company that manufactured Zyklon-B, supplied it to the SS, and taught a course for the SS on how the cyanide generated by Zyklon-B coiuld be used to kill people was duly prosecuted for continuing to supply the studd even though it was fully aware that some of it was being used to commit mass-murder. The management did not contest the charges, but rather based its defense on the wrgument that it was futile to try to resist the SS. > How many of the trial records > are still off limit for the Germans to investigate. Anyone who wants can access the records of the Zyklon-B trial at http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/zyklonb.htm > Was the lampshade for > what Ise Koch wend to trial a real human skin . Why could this not be > analyzed in Germany and were sent to America instead for testing. Could it be that Germany was in such a sorry state that it lacked the laboratory capacity to carry out such a test effectivly? Source: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps Shofar FTP Archive File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps Last-Modified: 1997/01/03 Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6 [Page 123] COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y. Section of Pathology 25 May 1945 SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army) (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case 81 T.J.A.Source: http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/about/faq/ [Website of the National Museum of Health and medicine]46. Does the museum have remains from World War II concentration camps? Yes. The museum holds five pieces of tattooed human skin that were obtained from the pathology laboratory at the Buchenwald concentration camp when it was liberated. The records concerning the specimens are thorough, and testing of three specimens confirms they are human, although we cannot say with certainty if they were obtained from prisoners or if they existed before the war. (Because of religious restrictions on tattooing, we believe it is unlikely that the specimens were taken from Jewish prisoners.) A memorandum of May 18, 1945 from the Office of the Chief Surgeon, U.S. Army, to the War Crimes Commission, expresses the interest of the Army Medical Museum/Army Institute of Pathology (today's National Museum of Health and Medicine of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology) to receive "dried human skin" from Buchenwald after it is no longer needed by the commission in the Nazi war crimes trials. Also in the museum's collection is a wax-impregnated half-head preparation. The provenance information on this specimen is less certain, but it may have come from Dachau. There has been extensive media coverage of the specimens; most notably when The Washington Post printed an 80-paragraph story with five photos on June 24, 2001 and when FOX 5 TV station WTTG in Washington, D.C. broadcast a 9-minute program on Nov. 18, 2003 called "Remains of the Holocaust" that included footage of the museum's specimens. A transcript of the Fox 5 program can be seen by clicking here.Source: http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/about/faq/fox5_transcript.html [The transcript mentioned above.]Remains of the Holocaust (ANCHOR INTRODUCTION) SOME SAY IF WE FORGET HISTORY WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT. THAT'S WHY HISTORIANS HAVE WORKED SO HARD TO DOCUMENT THE HOLOCAUST. BUT SOME TROUBLING ARTIFACTS OF THAT TERRIBLE TIME "HAVE" BEEN LARGELY FORGOTTEN. AND THESE 'REMAINS OF THE HOLOCAUST' ARE RIGHT HERE IN WASHINGTON. FOX 5'S ELISABETH LEAMY JOINS US NOW WITH THE DISTURBING DETAILS. ELISABETH? (ELISABETH LEAMY INTRODUCTION) WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HUMAN REMAINS -- PIECES OF HUMAN SKIN WITH DECORATIVE TATTOOS ON THEM THAT THE NAZIS TOOK FROM CONCENTRATION CAMP PRISONERS AND TANNED LIKE LEATHER. ONE SPECIMEN IS HELD HERE AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES. THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE AT WALTER REED HAS FIVE OTHERS. THE GENERAL PUBLIC ISN'T ALLOWED TO SEE THEM. AND NOBODY'S BEEN ALLOWED TO VIDEOTAPE THEM UNTIL NOW. I WANT TO WARN YOU. SOME OF THESE IMAGES ARE HORRIFYING --JUST LIKE THE HOLOCAUST. (PACKAGE) [NATSOT: traffic] ON AN ARMY BASE GUARDED BY SOLDIERS. [NATSOT "ID please?"] BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. [NATSOT: trying door] IN AN AIRTIGHT LOCKED CABINET. [NATSOT: keys in lock] THAT'S WHERE DISTURBING EVIDENCE FROM THE HOLOCAUST SITS TODAY. EVIDENCE THAT WAS 'PRESERVED' TO MAKE SURE WE 'NEVER' FORGET. AND YET IT 'WAS' FORGOTTEN, UNTIL AN ECCENTRIC AMATEUR RESEARCHER STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS. Ken Kipperman/RESEARCHER "I wanted to know what are these specimens?... [cut] ...what happened to them? Where did these specimens go to?" KEN KIPPERMAN IS THE 'SON' OF HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS. SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT HIS 'OWN' FAMILY, HE ENDED UP STUDYING 'STRANGERS' INSTEAD. Kipperman: "Was this man murdered? Did he die of unnatural causes? Was he starved to death? Who is this individual?" FIRST HE FOUND 'DOCUMENTS' DESCRIBING TATTOOED HUMAN SKIN HARVESTED BY THE NAZIS. 'THEN'... HE FOUND THE SKINS THEMSELVES. SEVERAL ARE HELD AT THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE. THE CURATOR SAYS HE DIDN'T KNOW QUITE 'WHAT' HE HAD... UNTIL KIPPERMAN TURNED OVER 'PILES' OF FORGOTTEN DOCUMENTS FROM THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES. Paul Sledzik / NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE "It took some background research --some records had gotten lost in the 1960's and 70's-- to kind of reveal what these were." BRACE YOURSELF. 'THIS' IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. THERE'S A KNIGHT SLAYING A DRAGON. A GIRL IN A RED SCARF. AN INDIAN CHIEF. A WOMAN WITH A SAILOR AND A WOMAN WITH AN ABSTRACT ANCHOR. BENEATH THE COLORFUL IMAGES YOU CAN SEE A MAN'S NIPPLES AND NAVEL ON 'ONE' PIECE OF SKIN AND PORES AND HAIRS ON OTHERS. A U.S. ARMY ANALYSIS 'CONFIRMED' THAT THESE ARE 'HUMAN' REMAINS. Kipperman: "We have these specimens. They're very gruesome. They're very horrible, but everyone should be allowed to see them." THE SINGLE SPECIMEN HELD AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES HAS BEEN OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE AS WELL. IN FACT, THE ARCHIVES WOULD NOT LET FOX 5 VIDEOTAPE IT. AFTER YEARS OF PERSISTENCE, KEN KIPPERMAN 'WAS' ALLOWED TO PHOTOGRAPH IT, "FOR 15 MINUTES" BACK IN 1995. HIS PHOTOS SHOW A LARGE CHEST TATTOO OF A NUDE WOMAN WITH BUTTERFLY WINGS. Elisabeth Leamy / FOX 5 News "Maybe you've heard the infamous story... that the Nazis made 'lampshades' out of human skin. The lampshades were lost some time after the war. So the 'tattooed' skins are the only remaining evidence." WHEN THE U.S. ARMY LIBERATED 'BUCHENWALD' CONCENTRATION CAMP IN APRIL 1945, WALTER MASON WAS THERE WITH THE 120TH EVACUATION HOSPITAL. "This is another picture of the bodies." WALTER'S ARMY SCRAP BOOK 'SHOWS' THE INFAMOUS LAMPSHADE, HUNDREDS OF DEAD BODIES, AND THE MYSTERIOUS TATTOO NOW HELD AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES. Walter Mason / FORMER SOLDIER "The fact that it was a tattoo and somebody had tacked it to a board as a mount was disturbing." SO DISTURBING THAT THE U.S. ARMY WANTED THE CITIZENS OF NEARBY WEIMAR TO 'WITNESS' WHAT THEIR GOVERNMENT HAD DONE. AT FIRST THE TOWNSPEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE LOOKING AT COLORFUL PARCHMENTS. THEN, REALIZATION DAWNED. (FILM NEWSREEL) "The camera records the changes in facial expression as the Weimar citizens leave the parchment display." Mason: "They seemed to be generally aghast at what they had seen." SO WHO ORDERED THESE REPUGNANT ACTS? A 'WOMAN.' ILSE KOCH, THE COMMANDANT'S WIFE AND AN SS OFFICER IN HER OWN RIGHT. HER TRIAL IN 1947 WAS SUCH BIG NEWS IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT'S 'FORGOTTEN' TODAY. SHE WAS TRIED TWICE AND SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON. YOU CAN 'STILL' SEE THE EXHIBIT NUMBERS ON THE TATTOOED SKINS THAT WERE USED AS EVIDENCE. Mason: "It was beyond comprehension....[cut]...a total disregard for human beings as humans. It's like they were a separate grade that weren't eligible for compassion." AFTER THE TRIAL, ARMY OFFICIALS WROTE HOME TO WASHINGTON AND SUGGESTED THE TATTOOED SKINS WOULD MAKE, QUOTE, "VALUABLE PERMANENT EXHIBITS" AND SHOULD BE "PRESERVED FOR POSTERITY." Paul Sledzik: "They wanted to document that these things going on and these were pieces of essentially forensic evidence that were being used in the war crimes trials." Elisabeth Leamy: "The U.S. Senate 'also' wanted to document what went on in the concentration camps. In December, 1948 the investigations subcommittee called a hearing." AT THAT HEARING, A MAN WHO HAD BEEN FORCED TO WORK IN THE 'LAB' AT BUCHENWALD CONFIRMED THAT FELLOW PRISONERS WERE 'KILLED' FOR THEIR PICTURESQUE TATTOOS. HE SAID THE SS 'ORDERED' HIM TO MAKE A STEADY SUPPLY OF HUMAN HIDES AVAILABLE AS SOUVENIRS. AND HE 'IDENTIFIED' SEVERAL BUCHENWALD TATTOOS --THE SAME ONES HELD HERE IN WASHINGTON TODAY. Lilly Malnik / HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR "It's terrible. Shocking. Very shocking." ABE AND LILLY MALNIK ARE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS. WE SHOWED THEM DOCUMENTATION AND PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE TATTOOED SKINS. Abe Malnik / HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR "I'm really surprised to hear from you that they have it in the archives. That kind of shook me up, really." THE MALNIKS WERE SHAKEN --'NOT' BY THE 'SIGHT' OF THE TATTOOED SKINS-- BUT BECAUSE THEY HAD 'NEVER' SEEN OR HEARD OF THEM 'BEFORE.' BOTH FIRMLY BELIEVE THESE GHOSTS FROM THE PAST SHOULD BE DISPLAYED AT A MUSEUM. Lilly Malnik: "I think it's important to display it to show the world what really happened to us. What a nation could do to people, to human beings." Abe: "People will be shocked, definitely...but this is part of history. Part of humanity, of human race. If it happened to us, it could happen to somebody else." IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THESE UNKNOWN VICTIMS ARE NOT JEWISH. PLENTY OF 'OTHER' POLITICAL PRISONERS WERE KILLED AT BUCHENWALD, PLUS JEWISH LAW 'DISCOURAGES' TATTOOING. WE ASKED RABBI NATHAN ABRAuMOWITZ WHAT JEWISH LAW SAYS ABOUT 'HUMAN REMAINS.' Rabbi Nathan Abramowitz / GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY "The body should be treated with the utmost respect, the honor and respect due to the deceased, to the body, and it should be buried in its natural state and as quickly as possible." ABRAMOWITZ SERVED AS A JEWISH CHAPLAIN IN THE U.S. ARMY AFTER WORLD WAR II AND 'VISITED' THE DEATH CAMPS. PERHAPS 'THAT'S' WHY HE FEELS JEWISH LAW LEAVES ROOM FOR "SOME" EXCEPTIONS. Abramowitz: "The problem is that these remains have evidentiary value. And since there are Holocaust deniers today...[cut]...it may be terribly important to preserve these remains. But there is a difference between preserving and putting them on display." SHOULD THESE REMAINS OF THE HOLOCAUST BE BROUGHT INTO THE LIGHT TO BEAR WITNESS OR BURIED IN THE DARK TO SHOW RESPECT? NOBODY WANTS TO DECIDE. AND SO THEY LANGUISH. UNDER GUARD. BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. LOCKED AWAY. (ELISABETH LEAMY TAG) CURATORS HERE AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES DISPLAY ONLY A TINY FRACTION OF THEIR COLLECTION. THE NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HEALTH AND MEDICINE IS DEVOTED MOSTLY TO MILITARY MEDICINE AND SAYS THE TATOOED SKINS DON'T FIT INTO ITS EDUCATIONAL MISSION, ALTHOUGH IT WOULD BE WILLING TO LEND THEM TO ANOTHER MUSEUM. WHICH BRINGS US TO THE MOST OBVIOUS FIT: THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM. THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM HAS NEVER EVEN SENT RESEARCHERS TO 'EXAMINE' THE TATTOOED SKINS BECAUSE IT HAS A LONGSTANDING POLICY AGAINST COLLECTING OR DISPLAYING HUMAN REMAINS. BRIAN, TRACEY? (ANCHOR TAG) THANKS ELISABETH. AFTER WORLD WAR TWO, THE U.S. ARMY ALSO BROUGHT BACK GRUESOME EVIDENCE OF OTHER NAZI ATROCITIES, INCLUDING SHRUNKEN AND BISECTED HUMAN HEADS. SOME OF THAT EVIDENCE HAS BEEN LOST AND SOME STILL REMAINS IN GOVERNMENT VAULTS. This story was posted on 11.24.03, and had not been updated.If you think that the Museum is mistaken or lying, please contact them and set them straight. Regards, Eugene Holman
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