The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: orgs/american/codoh/evaporation-measurement-lie


Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31BA59CC.1A03@kaiwan.com> <4pe105$i75@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:59:02 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

[To Rich Green]

# If you knew what you were talking about you would know that
# toxicity is a product of quantity and time.

Ok. So how long do you suggest it would require, say, for 50 percent
of the HCN to evaporate from the Zyklon at the following temperatures:

1) 20 C.
2) O C.
3) -20 C.

(C = Celsius).


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.




From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:58:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31BA59CC.1A03@kaiwan.com> <4pe105$i75@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-35.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jun 11  6:01:02 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[To Rich Green]

># If you knew what you were talking about you would know that
># toxicity is a product of quantity and time.

>Ok. So how long do you suggest it would require, say, for 50 percent
>of the HCN to evaporate from the Zyklon at the following temperatures:

>1) 20 C.
>2) O C.
>3) -20 C.

        This can not be determined save by measurement as the carrier
(diatomite) would have a significant impact upon the time due to surface
cooling and thermal conductivity considerations.  It is not clear that
pure HCN would result in a reasonable first cut.  (And beyond that, I
still haven't found the box where I hid my reference material for the
move.)  

        The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6 hours for
30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows can be opened and
the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about the range of
temperature usage short of winter in an unheated building.  




Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:32:33 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

[About the evaporation period of the HCN from Zyklon]

# The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6
# hours for 30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows
# can be opened and the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about
# the range of temperature usage short of winter in an unheated building.

You're apparently way, way off. Dr. Roessler was kind enough to
send me a 1941 paper about the evaporation period, at temperatures
far lower than those you mention. I'll soon have the whole thing
translated and post it.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.




From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lueftl's dishonesty and cross-linking
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:13:01 -0400
Organization: Absence Software
Lines: 72
Message-ID: 
References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: vixa.voyager.net

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

> # The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6
> # hours for 30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows
> # can be opened and the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about
> # the range of temperature usage short of winter in an unheated
> # building.
> 
> You're apparently way, way off.

More importantly, this person is quoting Lueftl, who ripped those
figures from their context and cited them dishonestly.  The "six to 32
hours" figure comes from the Degesch manual, but it refers _only_ to the
total exposure time required for lice.  Since the metabolism of lice,
like all cold-blooded creatures, is much slower at 5 C than at 30 C, the
exposure time is necessarily longer.

Lueftl, utilizing his great distortional power granted by the mantle of
revisionism, takes the recommended exposure times and the temperatures,
and cites them as though those are the outgassing times and
temperatures.  They're not _quite_ the same thing.  Last I checked,
louse metabolism didn't have _much_ to do with Zyklon desorption.

Completely and utterly dishonest.

And that is the _main_point_ of his much-lauded "Lueftl Report."  He
spends twenty-three paragraphs on Zyklon and homicidal gassings,
climaxing with his conclusion:

   What is _the_ evidence against such a procedure? Zyklon B!

and

   This is _the_ flaw in the Holocaust literature!

(Emphasis added.)

This information has been presented on Nizkor for the past six months,
to the day, and I have posted its URL quite frequently to this
newsgroup.  That URL again, for those who haven't seen it:

   http://www.almanac.bc.ca/features/qar/qar32.html

It might be interesting to hear this person try to explain how his
"measurements" happen to coincide with Lueftl's fraudulently-lifted
figures.

I'm going to email this posting to Greg Raven, since he presents the
Lueftl Report on his IHR web site.  We cross-link from our analysis to
his web page.  We think maybe he should cross-link back to us.  Seems
like a fair request to me.  But Mr. Raven has stated in the past that he
disagrees, that he thinks linking related documents is "illogical":

   http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/r/raven.greg/raven-refuses-links.reply.01

A cynic might suggest that it is not so much illogical as embarrassing.
Especially when one's web site presents a much-lauded report whose main
point turns out to be completely and utterly dishonest.  I know _I_
would be embarrassed if I had endorsed this charlatan:

   http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p391_Lueftl.html

Any further comment on this matter, Mr. Raven?

Posted;  emailed to Mr. Raven and the Committee for Open Debate On the
Holocaust (which will doubtless consider me impudent and rude for
daring to ask Mr. Raven if he has any further comment).
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
 Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
 to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.


Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.