From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Pierce a National Socialist? Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 13:11:45 -0500 Message-ID:Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization. And just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist." (Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means something other than "National Socialist.") Well, the following email just came across the "Stormfront" mailing list, from the pseudonymous "murungu," also a fan of the National Alliance. He is discussing William Pierce, the leader (and founder, I believe) of that group: From: murungu@interserv.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:09:09 -0800 Subject: Re: National Socialism Are you saying Dr William Pierce is not a National Socialist? He has always been so. He spent years working within Lincoln Rockwell's ANP/NSWPP and is the author or editor of numerous NS tracts. He also edited 'National Socialist World', a quarterly intellectual journal in the 1960s. Dr Pierce is a National Socialist who lives in the present and who can clearly visualise the future, but does not live in the past although he understands it. He is a personal example of National Socialism's flexibility and ability to evolve to meet new challenges. Dr Pierce does not flaunt swastikas or march around in a brownshirt [few NS people today do] but he is most definitely a National Socialist. Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization? Posted/emailed. -- Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email to be in the public domain. I speak only for myself. Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 03:43:47 GMT From: Stormfront-l Subject: Re: National Socialism and Race From: whitewil Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 22:43:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: National Socialism and Race Since certain posters to Stormfront prefer to characterize our dedicated Movement activists as "xenophopic" and "failures," in a manner so subtle as to go unchallenged; and since my own organization, the National Alliance, has been "lumped in" with all the "Nazis" & "Neo-Nazis" out there on the lunatic "fringe"; and since we're all "self-proclaimed Nazis" anyway, according to our accusers; and since I've never been known for being temperate when dealing with baiters, I offer the closest thing to "official policy" on the subject, from the NA Membership Handbook: pages 120-122 from ACTIVITIES: RECRUITING TIPS "4.g.v.10. Nazis and neo-Nazis:Inevitably, every member who engages in public activity, so that he is recognized publicly as a member, will be asked, "Are you a Nazi?" or "Are you a neo-Nazi?" just as the National Alliance is routinely described in the controlled news media as a "Nazi (or neo-Nazi) organization." (For those that make the distinction, the difference between "Nazi" and "neo-Nazi" seems to be this: The former term refers only to the National Socialist German Workers' Party and it's members. The latter term refers to organizations and people who draw their inspiration from the former, or from the same sources as the former, but which are too young to have been directly associated with the former. Many people, of course, make no distinction between the two terms.) "So how does a member answer the question? If he wants to give a meaningful answer, he must know what is in the mind of his interrogator. What is his interrogator's understanding of "Nazi"? If it's a Politically Correct bigot (which will be the case for anyone working for the controlled media), or even a typical "couch potato" whose ideas all came from a television tube, we know that he is thinking of sinister men in black uniforms and swastika armbands who like to click their heels together, thrust out their right arms, and shout "Sieg! Heil!" before marching off to gleefully machine-gun a group of prisoners who were arrested for listening to the wrong radio program or failing to have a photograph of the Fuhrer displayed in their living rooms. This mythical "Nazi" is an invention of the Jews who control the mass media, and so the member is perfectly correct in answering, "No, I am not a Nazi, and the National Alliance is not a Nazi organization." "Suppose, however, that the person asking the question is a potential recruit, someone with an open mind who really wants to understand our beliefs and goals. In this case we are obliged to explore the question more deeply, and in so doing we may have the opportunity to use one of the catchiest ideas of all: the idea of National Socialism. "Using this idea requires great care and good judgment. It is an idea which evokes such strong feelings that even some members cannot face it squarely. On the one hand there are those who are embarrassed by it and would be happier if the National Alliance would explicitly disavow it. On the other hand there are those who accept it wholeheartedly but are unable to distinguish between the idea itself and its specific manifestations in Germany between about 1920 and 1945. They are caught up not only in the idea but also in the mystique of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist era in Germany, and there are very real dangers in this. For one thing, many of the latter people make a cult of National Socialism, with an emphasis on symbols, uniforms, insignia, rituals, and the like. The danger in this is that National Socialism becomes a hobby, and hobbyism becomes a substitute for effective action. And if we associate ourselves with the cult of National Socialism, as contrasted with the idea, we are forced to contend with the mythical image created by the Jews, for that will be the image raised in the mind of the average person who comes into contact with us. "It is largely for this reason that we have the admonitions elsewhere in this handbook against uniforms, quasi-uniforms, and insignia. Breaking through the wall of misunderstanding between us and the White public is a large enough task without raising the specter of made-in-Hollywood "Nazis." Even if there were no such negative image to overcome, however -- even if the Jews never had made an anti-Nazi film or television show-- it would be wrong for the Alliance to associate itself with the cult aspects of National Socialism in Germany prior to 1945. Things that were natural and helped form a positive public image in Germany at that time seem unnatural and alien in America and many other parts of the White world today. For example, party uniforms were the accepted norm in Germany, not just for the National Socialists, but also for the Communists, the Catholic Centrists, and other political groupings. They never have been the norm in America. "The recruiter who is working with the right sort of potential member--and who himself has an adequate mastery of the subject--can use the National Socialist idea and the mystique associated with its manifestation in Germany as a powerful tool for opening the mind of his prospect to the Alliance message. Again, however, the greatest discretion is required. Hopefully, this will clarify things somewhat on this issue...WWW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Multiple recipients of the Stormfront-L Mailing List Host: Don Black Finger for PGP public key. To unsubscribe, send e-mail to 'listserv@stormfront.org' with the line 'unsubscribe Stormfront-L' in the message BODY, not the subject. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Processed with Listserv v2.83 for Wildcat v4 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) Subject: Re: Pierce a National Socialist? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 02:06:04 GMT Jamie McCarthy (jamie@voyager.net) writes: > Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is > not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization. And just to be sure we're > talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist." > (Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means > something other than "National Socialist.") > Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a > Nazi or neo-Nazi organization? I'll let Dr. Pierce answer: "Inevitably, every member who engages in public activity, so that he is recognized publicly as a member, will be asked, "Are you a Nazi?" or, "Are you a neo-Nazi?," just as the National Alliance is routinely described in the controlled media as a "Nazi" (or "neo-Nazi") organization.... "So, how does a member answer this question? If he wants to give a meaning- ful answer, he must know what is in the mind of his interrogator: What is his interrogator's understanding of "Nazi"? If it's a Politically Correct bigot (which will be the case for anyone working for the controlled media), or even a typical "couch potato" whose ideas all came from a television tube, we know that he is thinking of sinister-looking men in black uniforms and swastika armbands who like to click their heels together, thrust out their right arms, and shout "Sieg Heil!" before marching off to gleefully machine-gun a group of prisoners who were arrested for listening to the wrong radio program or failing to have a photograph of the _Fuehrer_ displayed in their living rooms. This mythical "Nazi" is an invention of the Jews who control the mass media, and so the member is perfectly correct in answering, "No, I am not a Nazi, and the National Alliance is not a Nazi organization." From: rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,mn.politics Subject: Re: Pierce a National Socialist? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:00:15 -0800 Organization: Uncensored Internet, http://www.c2.org/uncensored/ Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article , bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) wrote: > Jamie McCarthy (jamie@voyager.net) writes: > > > Milton Kleim has repeatedly claimed that the National Alliance is > > not a Nazi or neo-Nazi organization. And just to be sure we're > > talking about the same thing, by "Nazi" I mean "National Socialist." > > (Kleim has also claimed that the term "Nazi" is derogative and means > > something other than "National Socialist.") > > > Mr. Kleim, do you still maintain that the National Alliance is not a > > Nazi or neo-Nazi organization? > > I'll let Dr. Pierce answer: Milton, you didn't finish the quote! You only gave the first two paragraphs! I'm sure Dr. Pierce would be upset. This comes from the National Alliance Membership Handboook, pages 120-122 from ACTIVITIES: RECRUITING TIPS. The part you left out reads: "Suppose, however, that the person asking the question is a potential recruit, someone with an open mind who really wants to understand our beliefs and goals. In this case we are obliged to explore the question more deeply, and in so doing we may have the opportunity to use one of the catchiest ideas of all: the idea of National Socialism. "Using this idea requires great care and good judgment. It is an idea which evokes such strong feelings that even some members cannot face it squarely. On the one hand there are those who are embarrassed by it and would be happier if the National Alliance would explicitly disavow it. On the other hand there are those who accept it wholeheartedly but are unable to distinguish between the idea itself and its specific manifestations in Germany between about 1920 and 1945. They are caught up not only in the idea but also in the mystique of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist era in Germany, and there are very real dangers in this. For one thing, many of the latter people make a cult of National Socialism, with an emphasis on symbols, uniforms, insignia, rituals, and the like. The danger in this is that National Socialism becomes a hobby, and hobbyism becomes a substitute for effective action. And if we associate ourselves with the cult of National Socialism, as contrasted with the idea, we are forced to contend with the mythical image created by the Jews, for that will be the image raised in the mind of the average person who comes into contact with us. "It is largely for this reason that we have the admonitions elsewhere in this handbook against uniforms, quasi-uniforms, and insignia. Breaking through the wall of misunderstanding between us and the White public is a large enough task without raising the specter of made-in-Hollywood "Nazis." Even if there were no such negative image to overcome, however -- even if the Jews never had made an anti-Nazi film or television show-- it would be wrong for the Alliance to associate itself with the cult aspects of National Socialism in Germany prior to 1945. Things that were natural and helped form a positive public image in Germany at that time seem unnatural and alien in America and many other parts of the White world today. For example, party uniforms were the accepted norm in Germany, not just for the National Socialists, but also for the Communists, the Catholic Centrists, and other political groupings. They never have been the norm in America. "The recruiter who is working with the right sort of potential member--and who himself has an adequate mastery of the subject--can use the National Socialist idea and the mystique associated with its manifestation in Germany as a powerful tool for opening the mind of his prospect to the Alliance message. Again, however, the greatest discretion is required. - -rich Institute for Ernst Zundel Revisionism http://www.c2.org/~rich/Not_By_Me_Not_My_Views/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMSV8S43DXUbM57SdAQFNLQP+InBTyeSDDrRe8NsJvBPFy81rKWQW5xhV 7XHFmeXNZOkvJt6dAdFnqZT378gTkAoFhH8HpmsXt+nSsRTp+o0oyKz+nbSd1Zvk +Yzy8q4gcQoImUhy0Ts6c1vK0FMSZh2mZ8tom4bIT6SLeOnVVA2AilhcAjCqUvNv GbZhSPsw7kQ= =uPab -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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