Archive/File: orgs/american/oregon/banished.cpu banished.scj
Last-Modified: 1994/04/13

Article: 60659 of soc.culture.jewish
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: GANNON HAS BEEN FORBIDDEN TO POST IN S.C.J.!!!
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 22:54:32 +0200
Organization: "The Private Site of Manfredo Tichauer"
Lines: 213

My friends, 
             thanks to support@netcom.com, Daniel Faigin and a little of my
part, the Nazi Dan Gannon has been forbidden to post in this group! I think 
this is the best anticipated  present  we could have received to celebrate
this year's Yom Ha'Atzmaut and a late electronic remembrance candle for last
week's Yom HaShoah. We should always remember our 6 million brutally murdered
people and put a muzzle on the jaws of those who deny that it happened.
I think that it is not worth to discuss with them, since those criminals KNOW
that the Shoa happened but they only want to till the ground for a new Shoa.
Their logic is that if they can convince people that the Shoa did not happen,
then nobody would believe us in case they achieve to get to power and prepare
a new (and better = worse) and final Shoa.

Manfredo

PS: maybe some of you might think that this is not democratic. Maybe they are
    right, but I don't care. The 1st. Ammendment applies ONLY for USA, one of
    more than  hundred countries  connected to Internet.  BTW, there must  be
    something wrong in a law that allows any racist group  (KKK, JBS, Nazis,
    etc.) but as soon as somebody declared himself a "lefty", he had immedia-
    tely the FBI, CIA, etc. on his neck.     
 
******************************************************************************

From: support@netcom.com (Netcom Support)
Message-Id: <199404111806.LAA01808@netcom12.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Jewishgen List on Nysernet
To: faigin@solarium.aero.org
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 11:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: support@netcom.com, tichauer@valpso.hanse.de, dgannon@banished.com,
       root@banished.com
In-Reply-To: <94Apr7.101226pdt.111105-3@mail.aero.org> from
             "faigin@solarium.aero.org" at Apr 7, 94 10:12:19 am


faigin@solarium.aero.org writes:

> From faigin@solarium.aero.org Thu Apr  7 10:14:30 1994
> Return-Path: 
> Received: from mail.aero.org by mail.netcom.com (8.6.4/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
> 	id KAA23763; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:14:27 -0700
> Received: from solarium.aero.org ([130.221.193.156]) by mail.aero.org with
            SMTP id <111105-3>; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:12:26 -0700
> Received: from soldan.aero.org by solarium.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0)
> 	id AA20119 for support@netcom.com; Thu, 7 Apr 94 10:12:20 PDT
> Date: 	Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:12:19 -0700
> From: faigin@solarium.aero.org
> To: support@netcom.com
> Cc: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
> In-Reply-To: <2VmDkc2w165w@valpso.hanse.de> (tichauer@valpso.hanse.de)
> Subject: Re: Jewishgen List on Nysernet
> Message-Id: <94Apr7.101226pdt.111105-3@mail.aero.org>
> X-Status: 

! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
!                                                                             !
!  Given the message below, we feel it is thus necessary to inform you that   !
!  dgannon's posts regarding revisionism to the soc.culture.jewish group is   !
!  not longer acceptable. You are hereby informed that such postings to that  !
!  group should cease, and continued violation of this guideline should result!
!  in either the removal of dgannon's posting privelages or a cessation of    !
!  banished.com's USENET feed.                                                !
!                                                                             !
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Note: the frame with ! is not part of the original message. I made it. MT]

Relevant information included below:

> I am in receipt of a message from Manfredo Tichauer in which he quotes you
> (support@netcom.com) as saying:
> 
>   From: support@netcom.com (Netcom Support)
>   Subject: Re: Dan Gannon
>   To: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
>   Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 12:13:38 -0800 (PST)
> 
> 
>   If you feel Mr. Gannon's post violate a portion of the soc.culture.jewish
>   charter, could you please forward us a copy of that charter and point out
>   what sections deem his postings as inappropriate?
> 
> I am the maintainer of the soc.culture.jewish FAQ and Reading Lists. S.C.J
> predates the "great renaming"; it was originally net.religion.jewish. As a
> result, it was not required to have a formal charters as newsgroups do today.
> However, there are a set of agreed upon "acceptable posting guidelines" that
> are embodied in the s.c.j FAQ. I am included them below; I hope they will
> drive this issue to resolution. Note especially item 1.4.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: 1.1. Why is this group called soc.culture.jewish?  Wouldn't
>         soc.religion.jewish be more appropriate?
> 
> The name "soc.culture.jewish" (S.C.J) is a net.historical relic.  In the
> early years of Usenet, the newsgroup was named net.religion.jewish.  When the
> Great Renaming was looming (see _The New Hacker's Dictionary_), there was a
> common belief that renaming it talk.religion.jewish would be detrimental to
> the group's success.  So the net's collective Yiddishe kopfe did an end run
> around this, by proposing that the group be moved into the soc.culture.*
> hierarchy.  And here we are.
> 
> While Jews have argued forever about whether Judaism is more of a "culture" or
> a "religion" or a something else, the choice of name for this newsgroup is not
> proof of anything.  So if you start arguing "but this group is
> soc.CULTURE.jewish, so...," please, as a well known character in a 1970's US
> television comedy series says: "just stifle."
> 

[irrelevant lines deleted. MT]

> Subject: 1.3. What topics are appropriate for S.C.J?
> 
> Soc.culture.jewish is for discussions concerning Judaism and the surrounding
> culture (Yiddishkeit, Hebrew, Jewish motherhood, etc.).  This includes
> discussions regarding the various recognized movements within Judaism,debates
> over halacha, Torah interpretations, etc.
> 
> "Divrey Torah" - long or short sermons relating to Judaism and Torah, are
> especially welcome.
> 
> Survey questions are also appropriate, such as "How does your community
> organize its free loan societies and scholarships for poor Jews who want a
> Jewish education?"
> 
> Discussions about aliyah and Zionism are appropriate, but only if they remain
> in a Jewish context. If you want to talk about the more political or secular
> aspects of these subjects, it is more appropriate to use soc.culture.israel.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: 1.4. What topics are *not* appropriate for S.C.J?
> 
> Middle East politics, especially international issues concerning Israel,
> belong in talk.politics.mideast (T.P.M), not S.C.J.  You certainly should not
> crosspost between S.C.J and T.P.M.  Discussions of internal Israeli politics
> belong in soc.culture.israel (S.C.I).Again, they should not be crossposted to
> S.C.J.  Pick whichever one is appropriate.
> 
> Discussions of Israeli Culture are inappropriate for S.C.J; rather, they
> belong in s.c.i. Crossposting between S.C.I and
> S.C.J is appropriate ONLY for articles dealing with Jewish, as opposed to
> secular Israeli, issues. If the group il.talk exists, it is also appropriate
> for discussions of Israeli culture, but note that its distribution is limited
> to Israel and sites receiving the il distribution (for example, nysernet.org). 
> 
> Readers of S.C.J are committed to their religion; it is inappropriate to
> "witness" or preach. Discussions of so-called "Messianic Judaism[sic]," and
> the Christian missionary organization calling itself "Jews for Jesus," and
> similar topics belong in alt.messianic or the appropriate talk.religion.*
> group; don't crosspost them to S.C.J.
> 
> Revisionist teachings (i.e., those teachings they attempt to deny that the
> holocaust never happened) are inappropriate for S.C.J. They belong in
> alt.revisionism. For more information on how to cope with those holding
> revisionist beliefs, the interested reader is referred to [Lip93] (Lipstadt,
> Deborah._Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory_.) in
> the Antisemitism portion of the reading list.
> 
> Lastly, try to avoid personal attacks.  Don't write "Lashon Hara", derogatory
> information about people or groups.  (If slanderous and *false*, it's called
> "Motzei Shem Ra") It is also forbidden to embarrass others in public.  (Rare
> exceptions exist, so read a book such as R' Pliskin's _Guard your Tongue_ for
> details.)
> 
> As Josh Backon reminded us:
> 
>   The Bible states (Leviticus 19:17): "You shall surely rebuke your neighbor
>   and not bear sin because of him".  The Talmud comments that you may reprove
>   your neighbor as long as you do not insult him but if you embarrass him by
>   making him blush or turn pale from shame or fury then you have incurred
>   guilt because of him (Sifra, Kedoshim 4:8; Talmud Arachin 16b).  The Talmud
>   (Shevuot 36a) mentions a general prohibition against insulting a fellow man.
>   Pirke Avot (3:11) states that he who causes embarrassment to a fellow man
>   has no share in the world-to-come.  The Talmud (Bava Metzia 58b) compared
>   the slanderer to a shedder of blood, and the Rambam (Hilchot Chovel Umazzik
>   3:7) characterized all slanderers as wicked and stupid.  The later scholars
>   instituted disciplinary floggings for cases of slander (Choshen Mishpat
>   420:41).

[irrelevant lines deleted. MT]

> Subject: 1.10. Can non-Jews post to S.C.J?
> 
> All Usenet readers have equal right to post to S.C.J..  However, as with all
> newsgroups, you should note that the collective readership has a general
> consensus on what types of posting are acceptable.  In the case of S.C.J.,
> this consensus reflects the fact that most of the readers are Jewish.  Also,
> don't post general questions which can be answered in this FAQ or in a
> library.  If your motivation is simply to get an answer to a question, you can
> send e-mail to a few regular posters.
> 
> If you choose to ask your question of the S.C.J readership, you may be placed
> under suspicion of being a missionary, especially if you "innocently" ask
> something like "Someone please explain to me why Jews stubbornly refuse to
> accept my faith, when it's written right in your Bible..."
> 
> We've seen it all a thousand times before, and unsolicited declarations of
> belief in  in S.C.J convey the message " supports
> harassing Jews." You're welcome to observe, participate, and learn about
> Judaism.  Proselytizing is inappropriate.

[irrelevant lines deleted. MT]  

___________________________________________________________________________
Support                                                  support@netcom.com
Technical Support Staff               NETCOM On-line Communication Services 

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  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  22301 Hamburg - GERMANY                    FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
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