From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Apr 21 10:34:23 PDT 1996
Article: 32172 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: A REVISIONNIST FAQ (2)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 10:07:47 -0700
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In article <4l6tln$q93@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> 1.0   US gas chambers
> 
> Zyklon B is not used in American gas chambers, mainly because it requires
> too much time to drive the gas from the inert carrier....

And your proof for this is? 

[Irrelevent desription of U.S. execution gas chambers snipped] 

> 2.0 Auschwitz gas chambers
> 
> It's sometimes difficult to describe the Auschwitz gas chambers: most of the
> books on that topic talk about gas chambers without describing the mechanism
> they were suppose to have used. 

This, of course, is not true. There are several books that describe the
mechanisms by which Zyklon B was used in the homicidal gas chambers at
Auschwitz. 

> There are very, very few photos of the alleged gas chambers of Krema 2 and 3, 
> even though the buildings are still there (but not totally intact). 

Of course, the Nazis severley restricted the taking of such photographs
and their distribution. It is hardly suprising then that very few survived
the war. I suggest you read the transcription from _Auschwitz: a history
in photographs_ for a description of how the Nazis managed photos taken at
Auschwitz. You can find it at: 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/photos.01

[snip]

>...Actually, there are roof vents on the top of Krema 2 at Auschwitz, 
>and the Auschwitz Museum claims they were there before the Russians 
>captured the camp. (The Communist authorities allowed any visitor to 
>come there after 1958). In this version, Zyklon B was poured from 
>those roof vents in a metallic wiremesh. However, Hoess, in his 
>'memoirs', describes it as follows (2) 

[Le commandant d'Auschwitz parle (Hoess memoirs, page 244, French edition )]

>      "The extermination process in Auschwitz was taking place in
>      that way: [...] After they had removed their clothes, the
>      Jews were pushed into the gas chamber. This one had showers
>      and pipes, and this was giving really the impression of a
>      bath room [...]. Then, the door were closed and screw*** and
>      the special team members were throwing the Zyklon through
>      roof vents across the ceiling. The gas was finding its way
>      through the pipes before to reach the ground. It was then
>      able to spread everywhere. From the *** of the door, one
>      could see that those who were close to the pipes were fal-
>      ling soon.[...]. Half an hour after the gas was send, the
>      door was open and we started the ventilation system."

Mr. Beaulieu, you have, rather selectively, left out quite a bit from
Ho"ss's narration of a gassing in the gas chamber of either Krema II or
III. The complete passage reads:

"The extermination process in Auschwitz took place as follows: Jews
selected for gassing were tken as quietly as possible to the crematories.
The men were already seperated from the women. In the undressing chamber,
prisoners of the Sonderkommandos, who specially chosen for this purpose,
would tell them in their own language that they were going to be bathed
and deloused, and that they must leave their clothes neatly together, and
above all, remember where they put them, so that they would be able to
find them again quickly after delousing. The Sonderkommando had the
greatest interest in seeing that the operation proceeded smoothly and
quickly*. After undressing, the Jews went into the gas chamber, which was
furnished with showers and water pipes and gave a realistic impression of
a bathhouse.

"The women went in first with their children, followed by the men, who
were always fewer in number. This part of the operation nearly always went
smoothly since the Sonderkommando would always calm those who showed any
anxiety or perhaps even had some clue as to their fate. As an additional
precaution, the Sonderkommando and an SS soldier always stayed in the
chamber until the very last moment.

"The door would be screwed shut and the waiting disinfection squads would
immediately pour the gas [crystals] into the vebts in the ceiling of the
gas chamber down an air shaft which went to the floor. This ensured the
rapid distribution of the gas. The process could be observed through the
peep hole in the door. Those who were standing next to the air shaft were
killed immediately. I can state that about one-third died immediately. The
remainder staggered about and began to scream and struggle for air. The
screaming, however, soon changed to gasping and in a few moments everyone
lay still. After twenty minutes at the most no mobement could be detected.
The time required for the gas to take effect varied according to weather
conditions and depended on whether it was damp or dry, cold or warm. It
also depended on on the quaity of the gas, which was never exactly the
same, and on the composition of the transports, which might contan a high
proportion of healthy Jews, or the old and sick, or children. The victims
becames unconscious after a few minutes, according to the distance from
the air shaft. Thise who screamed and those who were old, sick, or weak,
or the small children died quicker than those who were healthy or young. 

"The door was opened a half an hour after the gas was thrown in and the
ventilation system was turned on. Work started immediately to remove the
corpses....

* Footnote 39: "Although the Sonderkommado were themselves killed off
after a period of time, enough veterans of different Kommandos survived
because they were transferred from one to the other. They knew very well
>from  past experiance that to try to inform the victims would only lead to
a bloody end. Many did try to whisper to the victims what lay ahead, but
were looked at in total disbelief. Although there were some riots during
the undressing they only added to the horror because the SS would beat or
shoot to death anyone who showed the slightest indication that they might
cause a problem. Besides, how brave can one be when one is naked and the
oppressor is clothed and armed? The psychology of the undressing helped to
cow the groups of people. Massed together in their nakedness, clinging to
their children or parents, they were in no position to revolt. "

Source: _Death dealer: the memoirs of the SS Kommandant at Auschwitz_, 
by Rudolph Ho"ss; edited by Steven Paskuly; translated by Andrew Pollinger; 
ISBN 0-306-80698-3; pp.43-44, pp.43-44fn. 

Mr. Beaulieu, clearly your selective use of Ho"ss's account of a gassing
in L.Keller 1 was meant to be deceptive. This is apparant by the fact that
you first state that: "[i]n this version, Zyklon B was poured from those
roof vents in a metallic wiremesh. However, Hoess, in his 'memoirs',
describes it as follows..." and then edited out _any_ mention by Ho"ss of
the that the "air shafts" (metal grillwork introduction columns), or
"pipes" as you have related them, by which the Zyklon B was introduced
into the gas chamber was in fact completely different from the false water
pipes used to decieve the victims that they were ndeed entering a
bathhouse. 

Instead, you conveinantly misrepresent Ho"ss's account by first mentioning
that: "[t]his one had showers and pipes, and this was giving really the
impression of a bath room," and leaving the unaware reader with the
impression that the following mentioning of "pipes," by which the Zyklon B
was introduced, was referring to the false showerheads and water pipes
when no such thing was stated by Ho"ss. All so that you could "prove" that
Ho"ss's account contradicted that metal grillwork introduction columns
were used to introduce the Zyklon B into the gas chamber. 

This is not the first time you have tried to "disprove" the existance of
the metal grillwork introduction columns and that they were used to
introduce Zyklon B into the gas chambers. The last time, I believe, it was
by deceptively asserting that the _concrete_ introduction columns were
demolished when the concrete support pillars weren't, and claiming that
the traditionalists were advocating "selective" explosions in the
demolition of the Kremas. In rebuttal to your assertions you were been
given a detailed description of these columns, their intended use, and
that thetheyir dismatling _prior_ to the demolition of the Kremas. 

In this light, Mr. Beaulieu, this new attempt of your's to "disprove" the
existance, and use, of these introduction columns, by selective editing
and deception, is called lying by ommission. You, sir, are a liar. 

> There was no fan for either Krema 4 or Krema 5 in the story. This one is sup-
> posed to have exisex for Kremas 2 and 3 only.... 

Again, you skirt the truth, Mr. Beaulieu. As can be seen from the
following, the gas chambers of Kremas IV and V initially had no deaeration
system, but relied on natural ventilation from large doors opening to the
outside. Later, due to the need for massive gassings in regards to Aktion
Ho"ss, Krema V did have a deaeration system installed:

"...In addition to the interior doors, the two largest gas chambers [of
Kremas IV and V] had doors that led directly outside. The doors were used
to air the premises and to remove the corpses for cremation in
incineration pits....

"The first gassing in crematorium IV did not go well. An SS man, wearing a
face mask, had to climb a little ladder to get to a "window," then open it
with one hand and pour in the Zyklon B with the other. This acrobatic
routine had to be repated six times. When the gas-tight doors were opened
to evacuate the gas, it was noticed that the natural aeration was
inneffective; a door had to be cut immediately into the north corridor to
get an air current flowing.

"...The last chapter in relations between Topf and Auschwitz occurred in
1944. Planning the imminent arrival of Hungarian Jews, the  new head of
the Bauleitung, SS-Obersturmfu"hrer Werner Jothan, wanted to ensure that
crematoria II and III were in top order; he also hoped to reactivate
crematoria IV and V, which had not been used since September 1943. He
asked Topf to install permanent elevators in crematoria II and III and to
set up deaeration systems for the gas chambers in crematoria IV and V to
allow for massive gassings. After enourmous difficulties and direct
interventions from the WVHA with the Reich Ministry for Arms and
Munitions, the two elevators were delivered to Auschwitz in May 1944. But
time was running out to set them up. Installation of the deaeration system
in crematorum V, the parts of which had been in the warehouse since
January, was done in May. For the two gas chambers and the corridor, which
represented a volume of 480 cu m, almost equal to that of morgue 1 in both
crematoria II and III, Shultze had planned a deaeration system of the same
power: a number 450 blower with a 3.5-hp motor extracting 8,000 cu m an
hour(figure 28). A second ventilation system was not set up."

Source: _Anatomy of the Auschwitz death camp_, Gutman & Berenbaum ed.; 
ISBN 0-253-32684-2; pp.169,237-238.

> ...According to Rudolph Hoess in  his memoirs we can thus conclude that 
> the Germans were opening the door and then used the fan to spread...the 
> gas in all the crematoria building!

The fallacy if this assumption, Mr. Beaulieu, is that you blithely ignore
that Kremas II and III (and later Krema V) had _deaeration_ systems. The
HCN-laden air in the gas chambers was sucked out from the L.Kellers and
exhausted to the _outside_ from outlets on the roof of the Kremas.
Meanwhile, the _aeration_ system brought fresh air into L.Keller 1 so that
wihtin a period of several minutes the entire volume of air in the gas
chamber was replaced several times.  

Mr. Beaulieu, it seems like you are making a habit of misrepresenting what
Ho"ss said, as well as the documentary evidence regarding the Kremas. Why
is this? Simply because, as you have previously stated in alt.revisionism,
that you don't believe that Jews were gassed to death? Such is the want of
a Holocaust denier, I suppose.... 

> In A.T.O, page 258, a drawing of the eyewitness David Olere shows pellets
> wich were spread on the floor and Pressac comments that: It can be entirely
> fictive or based on what the artist saw, anyway this picture is the only one
> wich show a homicidal gassing.

I noticed no quotation marks. Are these the Pressac's _exact_ words, or is
this your "interpretation" of them? 

> The walls are of mortar and bricks, there are no gaskets to isolate the
> alleged homicidal room, no distribution system, no pressurised system neither,
> no mechanical constructions (pipes or other) which are used in a normal gas
> chamber.

What _are_ you talking about, Mr. Beaulieu? Which gas chamber? At what time? 

> The first mass gasing of Jews is supposed to have occur miles away from
> Bikernau, in 2 little farmhouses converted for the sake of mass killing. It
> was a total absurdity to reship the Jews from Bikernau there rather than to
> shot them on the spot. 

Obviously, Mr. Beaulieu, you are ignorant of the fact that bunkers 1 and 2
(the two converted farmhouses you speak of) were located AT Auschwitz
II-Birkenau and NOT "miles away!"  Either that or you are lying through
your teeth. Bunker 1 was located about 400 meters north-northwest of Krema
V, while bunker 2 was located about 200 meters almost due west of the
"Sauna." 

Source: _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_, ISBN 0-253-35581-8; p. 53.

> The reason why the legend was built around those 2 farmhouses is simply 
> that it was judged as preferable to use Kramer's diary as a starting base 
> to draw the main elements of the story. 

I see, Mr. Beaulieu, that you are giving free reign again to your
prejudices. Specifically, your unsupported belief Jews weren't gassed. I'm
sure doing so is far easier than doing a little bit of research on the
matter, but it is by no means acceptable in lieu of such research. 

The truth, in fact, is that the Nazis were embarking on a program to
exterminate Jews at Auschwitz and they desired a more secluded place than
Auschwitz I, with its large forced labor population, to do it at. Thus,
Auschwitz II-Birkenau was chosen as the cite for mass murder. 

> In the first part of the legend, pellets were allegedly throw in the house 
> through a hole in the wall(3).

Correction. The Zyklon B was poured into small openings in the walls, and
that were covered with wooden flaps and sealed with felt. (_Anatomy_,
p.161.) 

> Since Zyklon B (according to the manufacturer) sticks adheres strongly to
> surfaces and that the special disinfection team needed to wait 20 hours 
> after use before entering a normal room without a gas mask (4) [NI-9912]...

Ah, Mr. Beaulieu, have you _finally_ located a copy of Faurisson's book
that you claim this reference comes from? What was the title again?
Perhaps you will now share a more complete description of what Faurisson
wrote? Not that I trust what Faurisson, or you for that matter, write. Too
many lies, misrepresentations, and  outright fabrications have been
committed for any semblance of credibility to remain. You cite NI-9912. Do
you posses this document? Have you read it? Or are you simply tagging it
on, because Faurisson cites, it in the hope it will impress people?
Perhaps it would be impressive if it wasn't Faurisson citing it. 

> ...then the removal of bodies immediately afterwards would be extremely 
> difficult if we rely on the Hoess memoirs. In this biography, the 
> ex-commandant of Auschwitz stated explicitely that the Sonderkommando were 
> eating and smoking while they were working (ie without gas masks).

Indeed. Ho"ss wrote, in regards to the Sonderkommandos' stoicism/resignation:

"...They dragged the bodies from the gas chambers, removed the gold teeth,
cut off the hair, then dragged the bodies to the pits or to the ovens. On
top of that, they had to maintain the fires in the pits, pour off the
accumulated fat, and poke holes into the buring mountain of bodies, so
that more oxygen could enter. All these jobs they performed with an
indifferent coolness, just as if this was an everday affair. While
dragging bodies they ate or smoked. Even the gruesome job of burning the
bodies dug up after being in mass graves for a long time did not prevent
them from eating..." (_Death Dealer_, p.160.)  

What are we to make of this, Mr. Beaulieu? Another attempt of
misrepresenting Ho"ss, perhaps? Clearly, you have implied that the
Sonderkommandos were eating and drinking as they were dragging bodies from
the gas chambers of the bunkers. Also clearly, Ho"ss did not specifically
state that. The Sonderkommandos, acording to Ho"ss, also had to drag the
bodies "to the pits or to the ovens." Considering that entering entering
the gas chambers of the bunkers without wearing a ga-mask immediately
after a gassing would probably prove quite fatal, it seems more reasonable
that Ho'ss, when he mentioned that the Sonderkommandos ate or smoked while
dragging the bodies, meant "dragged[ing] the bodies to the pits or to the
ovens" and NOT from the gas chambers.

> However, if we consider someone who would be equipped with a heavy gas
mask, the removal wouldn't be easy neither. 

And? As if the Nazis CARED? Please, Mr. Beaulieu, show SOME intelligence!
The Nazis were killing Jews left and right by the droves-- why would they
be even remotely concerned if the removal of the bodies from the gas
chambers wasn't easy for the Sonderkommandos? Especially since they were
going to kill them anyways? 

> In the case of the so-called gas chambers, HCN could adhere to the walls, 
> the ceilling, the corpses but much more to the hairs of hundreds of victims 
> before being released gradually. 

Oh, my. It's the HCN Sticks To Corpses Trick again. While it is true, Mr.
Beaulieu, that HCN was found in the shorn hair of the victims (there was a
virtual mountain of it in the "Canada" camp), it was present in only
minute traces. As to the threat of absorbtion of HCN through the skin? It
is rather remote, as any medical text will tell you, unless the
concentrations are  high (higher than was present the homicidal gassings)
and the exposure long (longer than in the homicidal gassings). Or unless
the skin exposure involved burns with cyanide salts. To suggest that
enough HCN remained _after_ the gas chambers were deaerated to pose a
hazard is absurd. To suggest so after they were _washed_ is equally
absurd. 

>In the case of the 2 farmhouse of 1942 also, the remaining pellets on the 
>ground would be a danger for the Sonderkommandos if they had to accomplish 
>their task without any delay.

Why is this, Mr. Beaulieu? Do you think the Sonderkommados, wearing gas
masks, were going to scoop up a few pellets to snack on?  Once the HCN
evaporated from the Zyklon granules it would have been harmless. This is
confirmed by Dr. Gerhard Peters, the Degesch chief researcher, who
mentions that the Zyklon support material (diatomite) is NOT toxic after
fumigation (_Blaus"aure zur Sch"adlingbek"ampfung_, p.65)

Disposal of the spent Zyklon B would require nothing more complicated than
a push-broom, a shovel, and a trash can. Hardly a technological challenge.


> There is an interesting remark here: Degesh facilities, those small rooms
> which were used by the Germans for disinfecting clothes, were equipped with
> exhaust stacks and systems to heat the gas in pipes before re-injecting it
> into the room: they wanted to avoid condensation on walls. But nothing like
> that exists in the 'homicidal gas chambers', less developed technologically.

Indeed, it is interesting. Interesting in how you distort things. In
contrast, Pressac (_Anatomy_, pp.213-214) writes: 

"Not far from bunker 1 was another farmhouse, whitewashed and, with a
surface of 105 sq m, slightly larger than the "little red house." Ho"ss
decided to transform it into a gas chamber following the pattern of bunker
1. The place could hold 800 persons.

"Bischoff was called in to advise on the ventilation. He recalled an
article by Dr. G. Peters, director of Degesch, the manufacturer of Zyklon
B, which described a delousing system using Zyklon B with eight little gas
chambers of 10 cu m each, set up side by side. Each cell had two gas-tight
doors (made of metal or wood), one serving to take personal effects on the
dirty side and the other to remove them on the clean side. There was a
radiator for heating and interior circular ventilation which assured,
first, the regular passage of the agent over the goods to be deloused and
second, when the 60- to 90-minute treatment was over, efficient
deaeration. Peters's article had already served as a source of inspiration
when, in December 1941, Dejaco had proposed to install in the future
reception building at Auschwitz a delousing system with 19 similar gas
chambers (set up in two rows). Degesch had proposed that the delousing
chambers ought to be 50 cu m each."

"It was easy to install a modified form of the parallel rooms with doors
at both sides in the little farmhouse. Yet the radiators to provide
circular aeration posed a problem. This system had to be set up by Boos,
and the delivery process would be subject to long delays. It was decided
to drop this idea and limit the modification to the installation of four
small parallel gas chambers of 50 cu m each. As the gas chambers were
oriented to the prevaling wind direction (north-south in Birkenau), it was
thought that narural ventilation would suffice. One or two 500-g boxes of
Zyklon B per cell would cause rapid death. The "little white house," or
bunker 2, was operational by the end of June 1943.

Mr. Beaulieu, I would have you note that the Degesch design used a
"radiator for heating and interior circular ventilation" whereas you claim
"systems to heat the gas in pipes before re-injecting it into the room."
You also claim that this was because "they wanted to avoid condensation on
walls." Yet Pressac writes that it was, "first, the regular passage of the
agent over the goods to be deloused and second, when the 60- to 90-minute
treatment was over, efficient deaeration." Interesting. We seem to have a
difference of opinion here. Whom, exactly, did you say your source for
this was? Oh, that's right-- I don't believe you did. Perhaps you had
better? After all, we wouldn't want peole to think you were making things
up. Again.
 
It is also interesting to note, but which you don't mention, Mr. Beaulieu,
that it was this lack of heating in the bunkers during the winter of 1942,
which caused problems with Zyklon B not vaporizing properly due to the
cold temperatures, that the Zentralbauleitung decided to transfer the
gassing operation from bunkers 1 and 2 to the Kremas, thus necessitating
the conversion of Kremas II and III's L.Keller 1 into  homicidal gas
chambers. (_Anatomy_, p.223) 

> The Revisionist claim is that since delousing chambers (Degesh facilities)
> contain up to 1,000 times more ferro-cyanide traces on the walls than 
> 'homicide gas chambers' in the Leuchter original samples than there was no 
> mass gasing of Jews 

Of course, what you  convienantly overlooked here,Mr. Beaulieu,  among
many other things, is that the minimum concentration of HCN required for
delousing (i.e. killing insects) was 4600 ppm while for homicidal gassing
it was a 300 ppm, or 15 times greater. In other words, the delousing
chambers were exposed to HCN at far greater concentrations for far greater
periods (60-90 minutes per delousing vs. 20 minutes for homicidal
gassings) than the homicidal gas chambers were.  

Additional refutations of denier claims regarding "Prussian Blue," HCN
residues, concentrations, etc. can be found at:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/cyanide.001
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/cyanide.002

...as well as in the _A STUDY OF THE CYANIDE COMPOUNDS CONTENT IN THE
WALLS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS IN THE FORMER AUSCHWITZ AND BIRKENAU
CONCENTRATION CAMPS_, by the Institute  of Forensic Research, Cracow.  

> ...and the mortuaries where few cyanide compounds were found had just
been disinfected once during the war. 

Mr. Beaulieu why would the Nazis use Zyklon B to disinfect a morgue? It
certainly could not have been used as a _disinfectant_ to kill microbes,
as HCN will NOT kill bacteria. (_The Chemistry of Industrial Toxicology_,
Hervey B. Elkins; p.94.)

> It might be said here that the original claim of the anti-Revisionist (Raul 
> Hilberg) was that most of the Zyklon B was used for killing people according 
> to 'reliable sources', but since Leuchter's findings in 1988 the Holocaust 
> lobby decided to adopt a new version (Pressac) where more than 95% of the 
> Zyklon B was use for  disinfections.

This, of course, is a yet another blatant misrepresentation. Pressac  was
specifically about writing about the amounts of Zyklon B used to control
the severe typhus epidemic of the summer of 1942. He writes: 

"Around August 20, the epidemic was still raging, but the stockpile of
Zyklon B had dissapeared. The Auschwitz hierarchy was loathe to request
more prussic acid, as it implied they had been incapable of bringing the
sutuation under control. Then someone got the idea to justify the purchase
of further quantities of Zyklon B by referring to the gassing of the Jews.
The higher-ups of the WVHA knew that Jews were killed with insecticide,
yet they did not know how much poison was used in the operation. In fact,
only 4 kg of prussic acid was to kill a transport of 1,000 persons.
Inflating by more than 3,000 percent the quantities needed to to the job
in the gas chambers allowed the SS to siphon off more than 95 percent for
delousing. Thr trick worked. On August 26 and September 14, massive new
purchases of Zyklon B were approved for "special treatment" and "special
actions," terms that referred to the liquidation of unfit Jews at
Birkenau." (_Anatomy_, p.215)

Clearly, this was a _singular_ event. In this extreme case, where the SS
_decieved_ higher-ups in the WVHA and were given 3,000 percent MORE Zyklon
B than they needed to carry out homicidal gassings, they used this massive
excess to delouse the camp. Once. This brought the typhus epidemic under
control and subsequent subterfuge was not needed. What is also clear, was
that the WVHA was prepared to give the SS at Auschwitz all the Zyklon B
they wanted. As long as it was for "special actions," that is. 

Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid I'll have to stop here, as my newsreader is
complaining is complining that this post is becoming too long. I'll
address the remaining portion of this part of your "FAQ" (more like
Frequently Repeated Lies) in a subsequent post. However, I must say I am
rather dissapointed in your blatant deceptions, misrepresentations, and
lies so far. It seems that your brief absence from alt.revisionism that
your denier "disease" has progressed quite a bit. At this rate you will be
ranting like Moran or Giwer in a few months. 

How sad.

[snip]


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
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