Archive/File: people/b/berg.friedrich berg.0794

Article 13204 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Berg _still_ avoids explaining his lie...
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 29 Jun 1994 21:19:22 -0400
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 05:01:50 GMT
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Of course, if people like you 
>with your "heaps of evidence" could tell the world how big the murder 
>engine really was and maybe a few other details like manufacturer, no. of 
>cylinders or at least something,--we could zero-in on the problem much more 
>rapidly.

``On Wirth's instructions I traveled by truck to Lvov [Lemberg] and
picked up a gassing engine there, which I transported to Sobibor...It
was a heavy Russian gasoline engine (probably a tank or train engine)
of at least 200 horsepower (V-engine, eight cylinders, water cooled).
We stood the engine on a concrete base and connected the exhaust to
the pipe conduit. Then I tried out the engine. To beign with, it did
not function. I managed to repair the ignition and the valves, so that
the moter finally started. The chemist, who I already knew from
Belzac, entered th gas chamber with a measuring instrument to test the
gas concentration. Next, an experimental gassing was carried out. I
seem to recall that thirty to forty women were gassed in one
chamber. The Jewesses had to undress in a shelter open at the sides,
nothing more than a covered piece of wodded ground, near the gas
chamber. They were driven into the gas chamber by ... members of the
SS as well as Ukranian volunteers. When the women were locked into the
gas chamber, I, together with Bauer, operated the engine. Initially
the engine idled. We both stood next to the engine and switched from
free-exhaust so that the gases were conducted into the chamber. At the
suggestion of the chemist, I adjusted the engine to a certain number
of revs per minute so that no more gas had to be supplied. After
approximately ten minutes all the women were dead. The chemist and the
SS Fuhrer gave the signal to switch off the motor. I packed up my
tools and saw how the corpses were removed...''

		SS-Unterscharfuhrer Erich Fuchs


		From: "Nazi Mass Murder -- A documentary
		history of the use of poison gas", Eugen
		Kogon, Hermann Langbein and Adalbert Ruckerl,
		ed., Yale University Press, 1993, pp 112-113.


The Construction of the Belzec Extermination Center

``Bottled carbon monoxide was used for these experiments. A short
while later, however, the gassings were carried out with carbon
monoxide from the exhaust fumes of an internal-combustion engine. The
engine of a 250-horsepower armored vehicle was installed in a shed
outside the gas chamber from which the gas was piped into the
chamber...''

		From: "Nazi Mass Murder -- A documentary
		history of the use of poison gas", Eugen
		Kogon, Hermann Langbein and Adalbert Ruckerl,
		ed., Yale University Press, 1993, pp 109


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13205 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: An Open Invitation.
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 29 Jun 1994 21:40:36 -0400
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>You are right about one thing--your arguments don't impress me.

I have given up all hope of "impressing" you Mr Berg.

However, sane people appreciate the information I provide.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

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Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13251 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg lying about Operation Reinhard killing engine
Date: 30 Jun 1994 20:51:40 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear McVay,

Look stupid, before accusing me of lying in my article--read my article.

On page 20 I quote directly from page Leon Ploliakov's--Harvest of 
Hate--page 196.

FPBERG


Article 13254 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Real War Criminals: The Bombing of Warsaw
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:12:52 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear McVay,

What in the world are you talking about?  The destruction of Warsaw well 
after the Poles were defeated???

FPBERG 


Article 13255 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is it just me....
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:16:33 -0400
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Dear Mr. Flygare,

I guess that comes from being members of the same master race. That's odd 
though because some people like Sven Hedin used to think Swedes were 
members also.

FPBERG


Article 13256 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Berg's demands for proof?
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:27:18 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Gee whiz, McVay,

Do you think I should believe Bradley has a videotape of a T-4 gaschamber 
simply because he says he has.  I doubt if he or you have any real idea 
as to what a gas chamber would like if you ever saw one.
Bradley has not even described the "gaschamber" his video shows.

>Shucks, Mr. Berg's been making statements to the effect that diesel
>engines were used in all the camps employing CO as the death vehicle
>for over ten years. In spite of his being called on this many times,
>he has yet to provide any proof.

Your brain is a muddle.  In my original article from 1984 which you have 
obviously not read--I gave on page 20 my source as Leon Poliakov's--The 
Harvest of Hate, page 196.

>Isn't it strange that a man who has written such an unproven 
>statement in a formal "paper," and who continues to write that
>unproven assertion here, on the net, should demand "proof" whenever
>someone raises documentary evidence?
Dumb, dumb, dumb!  You should read more.

FPBERG


Article 13257 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg avoids explaining his lie...
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:48:56 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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References: <1994Jun26.225848.19490@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>   <2un0ji$nnb@mary.iia.org>  <1994Jun29.224709.7394@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear McVay,

You are simply running away from my challenge.  Running and trying to 
cover your tracks by telling lies about me--that's not very nice.  Big 
boys don't do things like that.  I don't do things like that.

The source for my claim that Diesels were supposedly used in Belzec and 
Sobibor as well as Treblinka is Leon Poliakov's--Harvest of Hate--page 
196.  If you had spent your time reading my original article instead of 
writing lies about my article, you would already know that.

Please don't tell anymore lies about me.  

FPBERG

P.S.  Rudolf Hoess was tortured and his confession is worthless as serious
evidence.  In his so-called "confession" he claimed that he was
responsible for the murder of 2-1/2 million at Auschwitz.  Jean-Claude
Pressac has already admitted that in his opinion the total number of
deaths at Auschwitz was less than 800,000.  Pressac's work is so highly
regarded that it will supposedly soon be published by the Holocaust Museum
in Washington.  So, why do you suppose Hoess's confession gives a number
three times as large?  There's a lot more evidence of his torture also. 



Article 13258 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg continues to promulgate his lie..
Date: 1 Jul 1994 00:59:38 -0400
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Dear McVay,

I, once again, must show you and all readers that it is in fact you who
continues to lie about me and my 1984 article.  My source at that
time was Leon Poliakov's--Harvest of Hate--page 196. (Clearly given on
page 20 of my article).  I can give many more sources but that will come in
the fullness of time. 

Please answer my challenge about the toxicity of a chamber filled with 
the exhaust from a 6 HP Diesel versus a chamber filled with the exhaust 
from a 500 HP Diesel.

Stop running away--I can always find you on the Internet.  Isn't technology 
amazing?

FPBERG 


Article 13260 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: The consistency of the denier mind (was re: Bacque)
Date: 1 Jul 1994 02:22:20 -0400
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Dear whoever you are (Lupus Yonderboy, Alex?),

Let's take your sentences one at a time.

>Look, in my history class in high school they showed a 
>very disturbing movie of mass burials and bulldozers.
The footage is almost certainly from Bergen-Belsen and the presentation 
is as dirty a piece of propaganda as one can imagine.  The fact is that 
almost all of the deaths there were caused by typhus and none at all from 
gas chambers.  That is not even disputed anywhere in the serious 
literature.  And yet, the horrible pictures of those dead bodies are used 
to convince people that the Germans were gassing other people in other 
places far away from Bergen-Belsen. The facts about Bergen-Belsen are 
clearly spelled-out in Allied medical literature of the time including JAMA 
and Lancet as well as special publications dealing exclusively with the 
typhus epidemic in Germany  at the end of WW2.  For example, in JAMA for 
May 19, 1945, page 220  we have the following text:

Typhus Causes a Truce

By negotiations between British and German officers, British troops took 
over from the S.S. and the Wehrmacht the task of guarding the vast 
concentration camp at Belsen, a few miles northwest of Celle, which 
contains 60,000 prisoners, many of them political.  This has been done 
because typhus is rampant in the camp and it is vital that no prisoners 
be released until the infection is checked.  The advancing British agreed 
to refrain from bombing or shelling the area of the camp, and the Germans 
agreed to leave behind an armed guard which would be allowed to return to 
their own lines a week after the British arrival.  The story of the 
negotiations is curious.  Two German officers presented themselves before 
the British outposts and explained that there were 9,000 sick in the camp 
and that all sanitation had failed.  They proposed that the British 
should occupy the camp at once, as the responsibility was international 
in the interests of health.  In return for the delay caused by the truce 
the Germans offered to surrender intact the bridges over the river 
Aller.  After brief consideration the British senior officer rejected the 
German proposals, saying it was necessary that the British should occupy 
an area of 10 kilometers round the camp in order to be sure of keeping 
their troops and lines of communication away from the disease.  The 
British eventually took over the camp.
---End of text from JAMA---

Years later and on a number of occasions, one of the British medical
personnel--Dr. Russell Barton--explained publicly that the British delays
of about two weeks caused many deaths.  He also explained: "...the major
reasons for the state of Belsen were disease, gross overcrowding by
central authority, lack of law and order within the huts, and inadequate
supplies of food, water, and drugs." 

I daresay, the horror footage shown in your school does little to explain 
the true causes and circumstances.

>I went on an exchange to Germany of all places, and
>although they are far from happy about their history
>they do not deny it like you do.

If they were merely to say publicly  "the Holocaust is a hoax," they
would already face three years of imprisonment in addition to various
reprisals in employment.  I go to Germany quite often and I can tell you
that many, and more all the time, say what I say privately but still only
a few dare to do say it publicly. 

>What inspires you to such 
kookdom?

My faith in the truth as revealed to me by my intellect and conscience 
and, most of all, by the evidence.

>but at least I don't insult an entire people by
>denying the greatest human tragedy of all time.

Did you ever really consider Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, or Tokyo, or 
Dresden, or Hamburg or hundreds of other cities which had been turned 
into vast crematory ovens by blind, misguided people like yourself?

FPBerg 
			





Article 13277 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg _still_ avoids explaining his lie...
Date: 1 Jul 1994 05:03:15 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear Mr. McCarthy,

Please read or reread my article.  If you E-mail an address, I will gladly
send you a copy.  My copy will at least show better quality diagrams than
what Dan Gannon probably sent you. 

You are confusing me.  Your reference to Holtz-Elliot makes no sense.  Do
you mean the paper by Elliott and Davis (joint authors) or do you mean a
separate paper authored by Holtz alone?  I have not used any paper
co-authored by Holtz and Elliott. 

>I repeat that the size of the engine is chiefly relevant to how fast it
>would fill the gas chamber, a point which we both seem to agree is
>relatively insignificant. 

Is the above a typo on your part?  I have certainly never claimed that 
the speed with which a chamber is filled with Diesel exhaust is 
"insignificant."  It is very significant but that is a different issue 
from the one I am trying to deal with first which is the importance of 
the size of the Diesel in so far as the toxicity of a chamber filled 
with the engine's exhaust.  How quickly it actually gets filled is 
something else.  Let's take one step at a time.  Left foot, right foot, 
then left foot again. Slowly, step by step.

>If you _do_ wish to make it an issue, I repeat a fact of which you seem to
>remain unaware.  That fact is:  you've taken it upon yourself to
>demonstate that the diesel-gassing testimonies are false, so it is _your_
>responsibility to make your case.  The burden of proof is on _you_.
>If _you_ lack information about the size of the engines, the world doesn't
>owe it to you to get out there and do your homework for you.  If _you_
>want to say that the engines were too small or whatever, it's _your_
>responsibility to present enough evidence that we can decide whether your
>case holds water.  Not mine, not anyone else's.

You're completely wrong Mr. McCarthy.  You and people of your ilk do owe
me a great deal.  You owe me and the world some strong evidence.  It is
you, who has been telling everybody again and again that you have "heaps"
of evidence.  Heaps of evidence not just for a traffic accident but for
the greatest mass murder in the history of the world.  It is people of
your ilk who have been telling the entire world everyday that the evidence
is overwhelming and supported by tons of Nazi documents discussing every
detail since the Nazis were such good record-keepers,--more thoroughly
documented than any other event in history, etc., etc. Now I ask for some
specific information like the number of cylinders or HP about the greatest
of all mass murder devices and I am told I should do my own homework.
Isn't that a bit weird. You led me to believe you had this stuff at your
fingertips--ready to go at an instant's notice to the farthest corner of
the Internet.  What a letdown!

Back to my challenge about the importance of size--6 HP vs 500 HP--what
exactly is your position?  I can't figure your position out.  Is Scott
Mullins out there reading any of this to offer his opinion--and why would
he have such an opinion. Please answer my very simple challenge and
stop running for cover. 
   
You wrote:
>> First of all, your challenge is misleading.  It is not a major tenet
>> of the arguments presented against your case that 500 HP diesels
>> have more-toxic exhaust than 6 HP diesels.
   
But it still is one of your "tenets."  I never said that I thought it was a
"major tenet" or a minor tenet of yours, just a tenet.  [Tenets anyone!]
Obviously, you feel by admitting that it is only of minor significance
you can, therefore, ignore my challenge to explain why.  You're running.

>> And third of all -- here's the interesting part -- based on the 
>> Holtz-Elliott paper that you yourself cited, there appears to be 
>> some evidence that larger diesel engines _do_ have more toxic 
>> exhaust than smaller.  Again, this is not a major claim in the 
>> arguments against your case, Mr. Berg, but it may well turn out 
>> to be important, and it is a claim which you should answer. 

It's like watching someone play a shell game.  It's "not a major claim" 
but then again, "it may well turn out to be important."  Even 
though you are unwilling to give me any explanation as to why you 
think size is important, you expect me to explain why it is unimportant?

Well, I can certainly do that--and I will, but not today anymore but
shortly.  Let's remember, however, that it is you and your hatemongering
pals who are supposed to be the experts with "heaps" of evidence.  We
revisionists are supposedly the raving lunatics with no merit to our
arguments whatsoever.  You and your pals put together cannot even
explain why larger Diesels should be any different inherently as to the
toxicity of their exhaust. 

From the stench alone, your "heaps of evidence" are pure horseshit. 

F P BERG


Article 13299 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Berg continues to promulgate his lie..
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 1 Jul 1994 00:59:38 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 20:04:07 GMT
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Please answer my challenge about the toxicity of a chamber filled with 
>the exhaust from a 6 HP Diesel versus a chamber filled with the exhaust 
>from a 500 HP Diesel.

Look you simpleton, no one is arguing this, you set it up as a
strawman and now you're demanding a response.

What they said was that a 500HP engine would fill a chamber FASTER
than a 6HP engine.

This has now been answered several times but you keep clinging to it
for its propagandistic value I suppose.

That you cling to this is most telling. Your intent is not the truth,
you just think you're cleverly snowing your audience.

Well, sorry, it isn't working, maybe go find a clever person to try
again...

Gak, it's like arguing with a two-year old...

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
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Article 13301 of alt.revisionism:
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From: flax@Krille.update.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is it just me....
Date: 02 Jul 1994 20:18:56 GMT
Organization: Update, Uppsala Student Computer Club, Uppsala, Sweden
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In-reply-to: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 1 Jul 1994 00:16:33 -0400

In article <2v05b1$kk4@mary.iia.org> bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg) writes:

   I guess that comes from being members of the same master race. That's odd 
   though because some people like Sven Hedin used to think Swedes were 
   members also.

I certainly hope not. I have a very nice Belgian/Swedish/Finnish
family tree with branches into Russia and Norway. Hopefully that'll
keep me mongrelized enough not to turn away from humanity and mankind
the way you and your comrades have. I can only feel distaste at the
way you use genetics to justify boasting your 'superiority'.
It sounds very much like 'sour grapes' to me.

It's interesting that you pull the name Sven Hedin out of the hat.. He
was very good at describing his travels, and it's videly acknowledged
that he documented several 'primitive' people that are now extinct or
assimiliated into 'western' culture. It might interest you to know
that he saw the signs of this and did not like it.

The litterature I have at hand is quite explicit, when it states that
he was a great admirer of German, but it does not say he was a Nazi,
although he had several contacts with leading people in Nazi
Germany. His admiration for Germany started long before that, well
before WW 1. Among the things speaking against him being all for the
Nazi rule, is his intervention to save several Norwegian freedom
fighters. 
It's unfair to judge someone who is dead from the litterature written
after his death, but the impression I have of Sven Hedin is a
brilliant man, when it comes to describing people, but very gullible
when it comes to judging them. Of course, this is with 20-20
hindsight...

On another note, a friend said something interesting the other day..
If the neo-nazis are so keen on genetics, and they want to start a
'race war', them being in a minority, pitted against the better
equipped gene-pool of the rest of the world, would it not be fitting
to say thet they got hit by evolution in action?

So, Fried, which of your genes is it that makes your superior to the
rest? I'll make it easy, you may take any three 'races' of your choice
and tell me why you should be better value. Just curious.
--
Safe PGP key fingerprint =  A7 FA 4D 35 73 0E DB 65  69 D5 D4 E1 02 E6 91 E2 
Unix PGP key fingerprint =  0D 22 64 4D 05 35 53 BA  83 56 7B 56 C6 61 D4 A7 
DNA sequence fingerprint =  0E 21 45 FA 7A 11 34 FE  ED DE AD BE EF 8F 10 71
DNA copyright 1962 - 1994 by Jonas Flygare, Copyright yours before IBM does.


Article 13304 of alt.revisionism:
Xref: oneb alt.revisionism:13304 alt.usenet.kooks:4990
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: The consistency of the denier mind (was re: Bacque)
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 1 Jul 1994 02:22:20 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2ulh48$1vu@mary.iia.org> <2umvsa$m0t@mary.iia.org>
	<1994Jun28.143757.4411@scic.intel.com> <2ur08u$5qi@mary.iia.org>
	<2uvkk0$mun@Times.Stanford.EDU> <2v0cms$va@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 20:40:25 GMT
Lines: 137


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>>Look, in my history class in high school they showed a 
>>very disturbing movie of mass burials and bulldozers.
>The footage is almost certainly from Bergen-Belsen and the presentation 
>is as dirty a piece of propaganda as one can imagine.  The fact is that 
>almost all of the deaths there were caused by typhus and none at all from 
>gas chambers.

Even if that were true that's hardly a defense.

You lock up tens of thousands of people in a forced labor camp, don't
feed them (was their obviously emaciated condition also faked?!), and
that disease runs rampant and kills thousands of them is hardly a
surprising result.

It's sort of like saying ``I didn't shoot them, I stabbed them to
death'' as a way of declaring innocence.

Since the Nazis were frantically destroying the gas chambers and other
evidence as the war was coming to an end and it looked like they would
be tried for their crimes it's reasonable to believe, though facts
would be more satisfying, that a photograph or film made by Allies in
the camp (i.e. at the end of the war) of reasonably fresh corpses
being bulldozed probably are not victims of gas chambers per se.

This does not deny the operation of the gas chambers.

It does establish the massive death and torture that went on in those
camps.

From that vantage point it's a little easier to accept that mass
murder went on in those camps. In contrast, had they found a bunch of
healthy and relatively happy prisoners perhaps stories about mass
torture and murder would be viewed a bit more suspiciously as just war
stories. But given what they found the possibility was completely
believable.

All you are protesting is the setting of the context.

>And yet, the horrible pictures of those dead bodies are used 
>to convince people that the Germans were gassing other people in other 
>places far away from Bergen-Belsen.

No, they are used to convince people that the Nazis were KILLING
thousands and thousands (millions in fact) of people. By gassing,
shooting, phenol injections, forced labor, beatings, holding people in
conditions where mass death by disease was inevitable, etc.

And that was correct.

>Years later and on a number of occasions, one of the British medical
>personnel--Dr. Russell Barton--explained publicly that the British delays
>of about two weeks caused many deaths.

Well, gee, sorry if the Allies couldn't clean up the mess the Nazis
made quickly enough. Considering the size of the camps and their
number and that there was a war going on there's not a whole lot to
"explain" is there?

>He also explained: "...the major
>reasons for the state of Belsen were disease, gross overcrowding by
>central authority, lack of law and order within the huts, and inadequate
>supplies of food, water, and drugs." 

Yes, and who created that situation? The Nazis.

And why? Because the deaths of millions of people was their purpose.

For all their research and experimentation into efficient methods of
mass murder in the camps simple neglect and overcrowding no doubt
proved the most effective.

>I daresay, the horror footage shown in your school does little to explain 
>the true causes and circumstances.

Nor is it intended to.

But it does set a context quite well.

>>I went on an exchange to Germany of all places, and
>>although they are far from happy about their history
>>they do not deny it like you do.
>
>If they were merely to say publicly  "the Holocaust is a hoax," they
>would already face three years of imprisonment in addition to various
>reprisals in employment.  I go to Germany quite often and I can tell you
>that many, and more all the time, say what I say privately but still only
>a few dare to do say it publicly. 

But then again it's also possible that the reason the vast majority
believe that the Holocaust happened largely as is generally believed
is because they know it's true. And your complaint about the law is
merely a red herring, as if the Germans are under some totalitarian
regime or something.

No, the few who say it privately as you claim (and it's only a claim
but hey, *you're* here, so we know people driven mad by their own hate
and internal ghosts exist) can well be discounted as kooks, madmen and
professional liars (something your own group abounds in.)

>>What inspires you to such 
>kookdom?
>
>My faith in the truth as revealed to me by my intellect and conscience 
>and, most of all, by the evidence.

Not to mention a severe mental disorder that seems to cause him to say
things on these lists like he wished the Nazis had bombed targets
inside the US etc.

>Did you ever really consider Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, or Tokyo, or 
>Dresden, or Hamburg or hundreds of other cities which had been turned 
>into vast crematory ovens by blind, misguided people like yourself?

See, in the end Berg can't resist insulting you for daring to question
him. He tips his hand for what he is, an old, bitter and hateful man.

Mr Berg, you sick pathetic twisted rot, do you see anyone here denying
what happened in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Dresden or Hamburg?

Feel free to dispute the motivations or justifications for those
acts.

But YOU are the only one here disputing that such things even
occurred.

Or are you so mired in your own pathos that you do not realize your
own twisted arguments would work just about as well for many of the
above examples you cite? I mean, once one starts lying like you do the
rest is relatively easy...

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13308 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Berg _still_ avoids explaining his lie...
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 1 Jul 1994 05:03:15 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2uk9cq$f04@mary.iia.org> <1994Jun29.010715.1959@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
	 <2ut6iq$bu4@mary.iia.org>
	 <2v0m4j$5mv@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 21:16:38 GMT
Lines: 103


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Is the above a typo on your part?  I have certainly never claimed that 
>the speed with which a chamber is filled with Diesel exhaust is 
>"insignificant."  It is very significant but that is a different issue 
>from the one I am trying to deal with first which is the importance of 
>the size of the Diesel in so far as the toxicity of a chamber filled 
>with the engine's exhaust.  How quickly it actually gets filled is 
>something else.  Let's take one step at a time.  Left foot, right foot, 
>then left foot again. Slowly, step by step.

Yes. Slowly. Soas not to confuse Mr Berg's very simple mind.

No one has disputed your rather stupid and vapid claim about the
toxicity of exhaust from different sized engines.

Several have now pointed out that you are the one who made this claim
as a straw man, no one disputes it, no one has any interest in
defending it, so what is the point?

The point is that you now have posted about 20 messages claiming that
others have claimed this toxicity thing. But your observably diseased
mind just made it up! Now you are demanding that others respond to or
defend your own imaginings!

Ok, assume someone did say that, or said something that could be
construed to be saying that.

So now a dozen times we've said well, if anyone said that it is
wrong. What's important is the filling rate, when considering
different sized engines.

You've seen those messages.

So what the hell is your problem?

I'll tell you what your problem is. Your atrophied brain is clinging
to this because in your fantasy world you believe you have scored some
sort of point by knocking down your own straw man (over and over again
I may add.)

It's pathetic Berg, give it up. No one is fooled by this childish
stupidity.

>You're completely wrong Mr. McCarthy.  You and people of your ilk do owe
>me a great deal.  You owe me and the world some strong evidence.

There is a difference between what we owe YOU, Berg, and what is owed
the world. *You* are a raving lunatic. The WORLD has been more than
satisfied by the evidence for decades now.

Or haven't you noticed that people who hold your bizarre view are
about as rare as hen's teeth?

I mean, how much effort should one really expend trying to convince a
babbling lunatic of something? That is your "ilk", babbling lunatics.

>It's like watching someone play a shell game.  It's "not a major claim" 
>but then again, "it may well turn out to be important."  Even 
>though you are unwilling to give me any explanation as to why you 
>think size is important, you expect me to explain why it is unimportant?

Hey, some women say size is important, others don't. I think I am
beginning to understand why this stupid and vapid point clings so
tenaciously in Mr Berg's brain...This is all like some badly done
1950's psychosexual experimental theater with this engine as a
metaphor for Mr Berg's, um, anxieties. No doubt any minute Mr Berg's
Id appears on stage in white face and black leotards doing some
expressive non-representational dance to John Cage music...

>We
>revisionists are supposedly the raving lunatics with no merit to our
>arguments whatsoever.

Hey! He said it!

>You and your pals put together cannot even
>explain why larger Diesels should be any different inherently as to the
>toxicity of their exhaust. 

Ugh, again with this bigger is better stuff. Hmm, let's try talking to
this subconcious that is so barely under the surface here, shall we?

You see, Mr Berg's subconcious, as the PISTON rams the willing
CYLINDER the torrid fumes are released. With larger PISTONs ramming oh
so much harder and faster we achieve that climactic death (or, as the
French might call it, le grand mort) faster. Your own obsession with
the EXHAUST and confusing its metaphorical qualities as being the
source of those torrid vapors and thus something to shower your own
attentions on is probably a misdirection. It is this exhaust which
showers with death, but it is only the excrement of the vital function
of the engine, while the life-giving piston penetrating that theater
of life's creation, the cylinder, is where your own attentions would
be better focused. As to size, well, let's just say that larger
cylinders work best with larger pistons.

Wotta clown.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13331 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: Brian Harmon 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism on the Net: Request for Help
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 02:48:59 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References:  <1994Jun22.180844.24000@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <4378.UUL1.3#25274@ace.com> <2u7jnm$oqb@he  <2ut82p$dvk@mary.iia.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1a.delphi.com
X-To: Friedrich Berg 

Friedrich Berg  writes:
 
>Gee McFee,
>
>You're awfully dumb.  Can't you go find another newsgroup to go and play 
>with?
>
>FPBERG
 
 
	For years now, I've heard Deniers wine about being insulted,
slandered, what have you whenever their garbage was attacked on the net.
 
I find Mr. Berg's posts to be quite ironic, to say the least.
 
	Why has the content of your posts so quickly degraded into name-
calling?  Could it be that your meager assertions were all too quickly
pounded to dust?
 
 
Brian Harmon
Formerly "Svidrigailov" bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu


Article 13345 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!ankh.iia.org!mary.iia.org!not-for-mail
From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg avoids explaining his lie...
Date: 3 Jul 1994 11:19:25 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <2v6ktt$jjh@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v077o$pfe@mary.iia.org> <1994Jun26.225848.19490@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>   <2un0ji$nnb@mary.iia.org> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Gordon McFee,

Do you mean that you haven't shot me down in flames 
ALREADY?

You're running from my question.  Why do you suppose Hoess's confession 
gives a number of 2-1/2 million murdered by him at Auschwitz when Pressac 
concedes that less than 800,000 died there from all causes?
Perhaps he was tortured after all or do you deny that.

FPBERG

As usual, YOU are full of shit.





Article 13347 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!ankh.iia.org!mary.iia.org!not-for-mail
From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg continues to promulgate his lie..
Date: 3 Jul 1994 11:57:29 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <2v6n59$lkc@mary.iia.org>
References: <2ulbg2$oi0@mary.iia.org>  	<2uo34v$11e@mary.iia.org> <1994Jun29.230727.7675@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 	<2v07rq$q3l@mary.iia.org> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Shein,

You should read what's actually on the Internet--in addition to lots of 
other things like Holocaust revisionist literature including my excellent 
article:  "Diesel Gas Chambers-Myth Within a Myth."  Send me a mailing 
address and I will send you a copy of that article at my own expense.

Michael Stein has posted his argument that since the A, B & C engines in
the Elliott-Davis paper increase in HP and CO content,--therefore, the
exhaust from larger engines is likely to be more lethal in general than
the exhaust from smaller engines aside from the fact that larger engines 
will fill a gas chamber more quickly. 

Jamie McCarthy has referred to that argument in a lengthy posting of his 
and said that "it might be significant."

All of this arguing by hatemongers such as yourself is necessary to avoid
the logical consequences of a fair reading of the excellent 1957 paper in
the British Journal of industrial Medicine, "The Toxicity of Fumes from a
Diesel Engine..." by Pattle, et al.  I understand that for many months a
number of you hatemongers had been making all kinds of snide postings
about this paper as if it proved your case conclusively.  Obviously, you
never read that paper carefully, if at all,--otherwise, you would have
known that it does just the opposite: it UNDERMINES all of your Diesel
arguments.  Now, some of you have grown very nervous about that paper, (some
progress there) and are trying to shift the arguments around by insisting
that since Pattle et al used a 6HP engine, the results would have been
more rapid if a 500 HP Diesel engine had been used instead.  (Let's 
remember that the Pattle test chambers were filled with Diesel exhaust 
before the tests even started.) 

Think a lot harder and read more also.  The truth may set you 
free.

In the meantime, subscribe to:
The Journal for Historical Review
P.O. Box 2739
Newport Beach, CA 92659
Subscription price: $40.oo per year.

FPBERG



Article 13348 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!EU.net!uunet!ankh.iia.org!mary.iia.org!not-for-mail
From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holtz-Elliot Diesel Report
Date: 3 Jul 1994 12:19:37 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <2v6oep$moh@mary.iia.org>
References: <2ut6iq$bu4@mary.iia.org>    <2v0m4j$5mv@mary.iia.org> <1994Jul02.223111.28291@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. McVay,

Thank you for bringing the Holtz-Elliott paper from 1941 to my attention. 

However, I must repeat what I wrote previously--I have not used that paper
or any other paper co-authored by Holtz and Elliott in any of my arguments
here on the Internet or in my 1984 artcile. 

FPBERG


Article 13351 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!ankh.iia.org!mary.iia.org!not-for-mail
From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The consistency of the denier mind (part 2 of ???)
Date: 3 Jul 1994 12:49:37 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <2v6q71$oim@mary.iia.org>
References: <1994Jun25.222801.13197@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <2urvkr$sq5@access2.digex.net> <1994Jun30.041805.9129@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <2v6g77$mre@access1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Stein,

It is generally agreed within the revisionist circles of which I am a 
part that the total number of Jewish deaths arising from the war is about 
a million.  That number includes many deaths arising from reprisals and 
anti-Jewish pogroms that had no direct connection to any German military 
presence.  Many deaths were from Polish partisans who seemed to have 
hated the Germans and Jews equally.

The total number of deaths from all causes in German concentration camps 
according to my revisionist circles is somewhere between 350,000 and 400,000.
Of that number, no more than one-fourth were Jews.

Arthur Butz was I believe the first revisionist to give those approximate 
numbers.

FPBERG

P.S. (To Mr. Stein only)  Two E-mail letters of yours have been completely 
lost by my access provider by, according to a Bulletin from them, an 
"Elfchief."  Please send those letters again so that I may respond.


From bergf@iia.org Tue Jul  5 16:02:39 EDT 1994
Article: 13161 of alt.revisionism
From: bergf@iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: back to basics
Date: 3 Jul 1994 18:15:14 GMT
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <2v6v7i$gnc@ankh.iia.org>
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu>
<2uufkb$ga3@mary.iia.org> <2v1geq$2bp@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Danny Keren claims there were only a few tens of thousands of Jews in 
Poland after the war.  I suggest he actually go to Poland and look 
around and talk to people.  There are lots of Jews all over the place 
but they don't walk around in caftans or wear yarmulkes, not even one 
from what I saw. 

When I went to Cracow to buy more camera film after I 
had used up all I had brought with me the previous day in Auschwitz, the 
first person I got to talk to was Jewish. He had offered to help me for 
some favors.  He assured me he was Jewish, his whole family was Jewish 
and that there were at least seven thousand other Jews in Cracow.  He 
was a rather ugly character, lots of Jews are, and so I was surprised 
when he told me that he was "an actor" who got very well paid whenever he 
worked, which he admitted was not that often, but the rest of the time 
he got a generous unemployment check. Every year he went to the Polish 
skiing resort at Zakopane.  He was proud of that and that hardly 
anybody else could afford it.

Sometime later, a Polish non-Jew and I got into a conversation about
Polish Jews.  He insisted that the Jews ran the country and that they were
all over the place--this was in 1988.  I asked him how he knew that since
they were abviously not wearing their traditional garments anymore.  He
assured me that everyone knew that and that he could tell, usually just by
looking at them and, if that failed, by listening to the way they talked. 
"If you ask them a question, they don't give you a straight answer--they
give you another question."  It sounded all too familiar. 

Warsaw taxi-cab drivers were supposedly overwhelmingly Jewish.
None of them wore caftans either.

FPBERG 



Article 13375 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Berg avoids explaining his lie...
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 3 Jul 1994 11:19:25 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2v077o$pfe@mary.iia.org> <1994Jun26.225848.19490@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
	<2un0ji$nnb@mary.iia.org>  <2v6ktt$jjh@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 20:07:29 GMT
Lines: 55


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>You're running from my question.  Why do you suppose Hoess's confession 
>gives a number of 2-1/2 million murdered by him at Auschwitz when Pressac 
>concedes that less than 800,000 died there from all causes?

1. Hoess said later that he was forbidden from keeping records and was
repeating numbers Eichmann had told him.

2. Are Hoess and Pressac talking about the same thing? Or is Hoess
guessing at total killed but Pressac talking about Jews killed?
Estimates I have are about 1M Jews killed and around twice that total,
including Gypsies, Soviet POW's, etc. That would seem to resolve the
numbers to a reasonable degree.

3. Is there any confusion here between Auschwitz proper and the
constellation of extermination camps around Auschwitz, e.g., Birkenau,
Birkenau II, etc? There were what, five death camps within a few miles
of each other? Aren't they generally referred to collectively as
"Auschwitz"? Does Pressac distinguish these but Hoess (or maybe
Eichmann) doesn't?

>Perhaps he was tortured after all or do you deny that.

Whether he was tortured or not is independent of whether or not he
said 2.5M were killed of his own free will. If he was tortured into
saying this why does he later get to say that is only what Eichmann
told him? Why do the revisionist's nefarious accusations always fall
apart like this, someone is tortured into saying what is supposedly
needed for dogma but then later allowed to all but retract it?

At any rate, why do you believe there is a need to resolve, of all
things, Hoess' and Pressac's numbers? Hoess said whatever he said, he
wasn't a scholar, he admitted that records were not kept (mostly
because prisoners who were killed immediately upon arrival, the
so-called "unfit", were never registered.) If he had instead freely
admitted to being party to the extermination of "only" about 1 million
people would this make him innocent? What is your point?

>As usual, YOU are full of shit.

Yeah, right Berg, whatever you say, you loon.

I think, ladies and gentlemen, that it's becoming increasingly clear
what we are dealing with here with this Friedrich Berg
character...just a low-life moron who wants to assert his twisted
opinions and loses his temper as a defense against being doubted.

He wears his heart on his sleeve.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13376 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Berg continues to promulgate his lie..
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 3 Jul 1994 11:57:29 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2ulbg2$oi0@mary.iia.org> 
	<2uo34v$11e@mary.iia.org> <1994Jun29.230727.7675@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
	<2v07rq$q3l@mary.iia.org> 
	<2v6n59$lkc@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 20:16:41 GMT
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Dear Mr. Shein,
>
>You should read what's actually on the Internet--in addition to lots of 
>other things like Holocaust revisionist literature including my excellent 
>article:  "Diesel Gas Chambers-Myth Within a Myth."  Send me a mailing 
>address and I will send you a copy of that article at my own expense.

Mr Berg,

Having read your notes here I cannot help but suspect that there is a
reason you point out that your article is "excellent". Everyone needs
at least one admirer, and you have found yours.

Feel free to post the article here on this list.

>All of this arguing by hatemongers such as yourself is necessary to avoid
>the logical consequences of a fair reading of the excellent 1957 paper in
>the British Journal of industrial Medicine, "The Toxicity of Fumes from a
>Diesel Engine..." by Pattle, et al.  I understand that for many months a
>number of you hatemongers had been making all kinds of snide postings
>about this paper as if it proved your case conclusively.  Obviously, you
>never read that paper carefully, if at all

I have never claimed to have read the paper at all.

>it UNDERMINES all of your Diesel
>arguments.

All?

You mean it asserts that the volume of exhaust output by a 6HP engine
is about the same as that output by a 500HP engine?

That would be very surprising indeed.

>and are trying to shift the arguments around by insisting
>that since Pattle et al used a 6HP engine, the results would have been
>more rapid if a 500 HP Diesel engine had been used instead.  (Let's 
>remember that the Pattle test chambers were filled with Diesel exhaust 
>before the tests even started.) 

I believe we were talking about filling a chamber designed for about
1,000 people.

It's getting more and more difficult to discover what your point is.

>Think a lot harder and read more also.

One does not have to think very hard when dealing with you, Mr Berg,
regardless of your comical ego.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13413 of alt.revisionism:
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From: Brian Harmon 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The consistency of the denier mind (was re: Bacque)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 02:57:46 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 19
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NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: Friedrich Berg 

Friedrich Berg  writes:
 
>Even a viciously anti-German journalist like William Shirer remarked,
>based upon his own observations, at the excellent German military
>discipline in Belgium or Holland--I can't recall exactly where at the
>moment. 
 
 
 Hmmm, you can't remember where, eh?  tsk tsk tsk.
You base assertions on sources "that you can't exactly recall at the
moment"....
reminds me of good ol' Hermie and his pathetic rantings , all based on sources
that he "couldn't quite remember where he'd seen them, blah blah blah."
 
So much for your rigorous standards for proof.
Brian Harmon  
------
Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive physical evidence
into a coherent and unified history.     


Article 13428 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: T4 Footage - Correction
Date: 4 Jul 1994 13:13:59 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear Mr. Bradley,

Thank you for being so forthright about the modern origin of the T4 
footage from Hadamar.  

 I have not been to Hadamar but Robert Faurisson had been there and spoke
about his visit afterwards.  He said--the so-called gas chamber had a
large window protected only by a grating through whose open spaces anyone
could easily poke their arm to break the glass.  In other words, it never
was much of a gas chamber.  Does your footage show the window and/or the
grating?  Probably not.  In any event, the Hadamar "gas chamber" does not
get any press at all in the Holocaust story these days. 

FPBERG


Article 13429 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Shein shines
Date: 4 Jul 1994 13:29:43 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear William v. P,

Your response to Shein is excellent.  Please have someone publish the 
contents--perhaps Liberty Bell.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Friedrich Paul Berg



Article 13432 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 6 HP Diesels vs. 500 HP Diesels for Murder
Date: 4 Jul 1994 13:58:17 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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Dear Mr. Stein,

We must be looking at two completely different 
diagrams, perhaps even two completely different 
articles.  

When someone speaks about an Elliott-Davis paper in connection with my
Diesel article, I assume they mean: "Composition of Diesel Exhaust Gas,"
SAE Quarterly Transactions, July 1950, Vol.4, no.3, pages 330-346.  I
suspect you and/or Scott Mullins are looking at something else, which I
may or may not have. 

Figure 6 in the above article is entitled: "Effect of fuel/air ratio on 
concentration of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, aldehydes, and smoke in 
exhaust gases of CFR diesel engine."  That diagram gives NO information 
about HP at all. 

If you have simply been passing on Mr. Mullin's comments without looking 
at the article yourself, I suggest you ask him to respond directly.

FPBERG
 


Article 13449 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Shein shines
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 4 Jul 1994 13:29:43 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <2v9gu7$svi@mary.iia.org>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 21:34:51 GMT
Lines: 14


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Your response to Shein is excellent.  Please have someone publish the 
>contents--perhaps Liberty Bell.

Or maybe Taco Bell? It would fit well with everything else showing a
distinct lack of meat...


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13461 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The consistency of the denier mind (was re: Bacque)
Date: 4 Jul 1994 21:58:58 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Harmon,

You're so-oh impatient!  You should know by now that I never make any 
real mistakes.

The book is: --Berlin Diary--by William L. Shirer, Alfred A. Knopf, 1941.

In the book, Shirer talks about numerous visits he made to the western 
front from May 18, 1940 through June from the German side with German 
escort.   As rabidly anti-German as he was (you could learn a lot from a 
pro like Shirer) and although he was obviously using every opportunity 
to fault the Germans, there is no mention of any rape or looting 
anywhere in his account.  He had more than enough opportunity to add 
such stories if he had wanted to and if his conscience, small as it 
was, would have allowed him to do so.

I will repeat what I have written before; the German army of WW2, 
Wehrmacht and SS, was a real army, a heroic and noble army, with the 
highest moral and military standards--and you or I will not see anything 
like it ever again.  

By contrast, the American army was and still is a disgrace: a Barnum & 
Bailey circus for armed juvenile delinquents.    

FPBERG


Article 13462 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rudolf Hess (was Re: Real War Criminals)
Date: 4 Jul 1994 22:13:49 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 9
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Dear Shein,

Rudolf Hess was the second in line after Goering to succeed Hitler.  
Surely, Hitler must have had a high enough opinion of him.

And what did the Voelkischer Beobachter have to say that you think is so 
significant?

FPBERG


Article 13464 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: T4 Footage - Correction
Date: 4 Jul 1994 22:26:07 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <2vagbv$qf3@mary.iia.org>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear readers,

Shein is awfully dumb.
 
Shein writes:

>Again, and again, and again, and again...
>It's all just a cynical bluff on the part of the revisionists, again
>they are merely gambling that their audience won't look into their
>claims.
>So this is two birds with one stone, it looks like Faurrisson is
>caught here deliberately lying. He claims to have seen the chambers
>and this window personally, remarks at the ease with which it could be
>broken, yet fails to note that the window is 12 feet off the ground?

Could a room have two windows?  Faurisson showed me a number of slides, 
one of which was of a window, rather ordinary in size, and the bottom of 
that window with a grating was at waist level.

Perhaps Shein could go to Hadamar for us and give us an objective account 
afterwards as to what is there and what isn't?

FPBERG


Article 13466 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holtz-Elliot Diesel Report
Date: 4 Jul 1994 22:52:28 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Mcvay,

(Ken Mcvay) writes:

>That is not in dispute, since you didn't cite it. The question, Sir,
>is twofold. Were you aware of the paper during the period in which
>you researched your paper, and, if not, will you now examine it, and
>discuss its contents?

I believe I was aware of the existence of that paper since I do have a
photocopy of an abstract of that paper.  The only reason why I can
imagine for my not having a photocopy of that article is that it was not
available in the library I was using at the time.

I don't mind examining it.  The question is what do you think it says that
is so important to you.  Most of these articles dealing with the A, B & C
engines are extremely repetitive and use the very same diagrams although
the numbering may be different.  If it is simply a matter of some graph or
other, I probably have the exact same graph in another article.  The Holtz
Report 5616 from 1960 more than likely gives all of the very same info as
the 1940 Holtz paper, including a lot more.  If we identify the diagrams by 
their title instead of number, I think we can probably discuss our 
disagreements without my having to get a copy of Holtz-1940.

FPBERG



Article 13468 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Berg avoids explaining his lie...
Date: 4 Jul 1994 23:22:10 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 36
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Dear Mr. Keren,

(Danny Keren) writes:

>In his autobiography - which is far more reliable than his
>"confession" - Hoess gives a much more reliable estimate for the
>number of those killed in Auschwitz; I recall it's 1.2 million
>or so.

>Of course, you'll never hear the "revisionist scholars" citing
>the autobiography.

Please explain why you believe the Hoess "autobiography" written 
supposedly while Hoess was in Polish custody, prior to his execution by 
the Poles, is more "reliable" than his "confessions" or "affidavits" made 
to western interrogators in preparation for the Nuremberg Trial.

Dr. Robert Faurisson has spent a great deal of time studying the
"autobiography" and has used it repeatedly in his writing to undermine the
Holocaust Hoax.  He often speaks of Hoess' claim that the Sonderkommando
supposedly removed the corpses while eating and smoking--which to
Faurisson is significant because it meant that the Sonderkommando was not
wearing gas masks. 

I suggest you learn what the Holocaust Hoax is all about by reading the 
revisionist literature--in addition to the hate propaganda that you are 
obviously feeding on now.

Subscribe to:
The Journal for Historical Review
P.O. Box 2739
Newport Beach, CA 92659
$40.oo per year
Bound volumes of back issues are available.

FPBERG


Article 13470 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: T4 Footage - Correction
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 4 Jul 1994 22:26:07 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <1994Jul3.222551.12979@scic.intel.com> <2v9g0n$s95@mary.iia.org>
	<1994Jul4.183543.24606@scic.intel.com> 
	<2vagbv$qf3@mary.iia.org>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 03:46:02 GMT
Lines: 51


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Shein is awfully dumb.

	

>>Again, and again, and again, and again...
>>It's all just a cynical bluff on the part of the revisionists, again
>>they are merely gambling that their audience won't look into their
>>claims.
>>So this is two birds with one stone, it looks like Faurrisson is
>>caught here deliberately lying. He claims to have seen the chambers
>>and this window personally, remarks at the ease with which it could be
>>broken, yet fails to note that the window is 12 feet off the ground?
>
>Could a room have two windows?  Faurisson showed me a number of slides, 
>one of which was of a window, rather ordinary in size, and the bottom of 
>that window with a grating was at waist level.

A room could have thousands of windows.

So, yet again, what's your point? That there was no T4 program, the
Nazis had no euthanasia program involving cripples, mental defectives,
etc?

I put as much faith in your word about Faurisson's slides as you have
in the videotaped films reported here.

Do you really think you will prove the T4 program never existed
because a window was inconveniently placed, even if it was, in one of
the gas chambers?

And you call *me* dumb?

Let's start at the beginning, this is starting to sound like the
diesel engine stupidity where whether or not people were killed
becomes, in Berg's mind, far less important than whether or not he
cited some article on diesel engine engineering.

Did the T4 program, a Nazi govt program to "euthanatize" people they
considered incurable, including the mentally ill, exist or not?

In that light perhaps one can decide if it's worth spending any time
on this window.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13596 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: back to basics
Date: 7 Jul 1994 15:20:04 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <2vhkh4$isd@mary.iia.org>
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu> <1994Jul6.174911.23969@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers,

The following response was given by Jamie McCarthy to Milton Kleim's 
request for a genuine order from any German government official.

>Well, how about this?

>> Himmler greeted me with the following:  '...  The Jews are the eternal
>> enemies of the German people and must be exterminated.  All the Jews
>> within our reach must be annihilated during this war.  If we do not
>> succeed in destroying the biological foundation of Jewry now, then one
>> day the Jews will destroy the German people.'

>That's from Hoess' memoirs, available in your local library (I found it
>in Paskuly's _Death Dealer_, p. 27).

That response is so stupid that one has to wonder if any of this 
discussion is worth the trouble.  McCarthy neglects to give the rather 
important fact that the so-called Hoess memoirs were written AFTER THE 
WAR while Hoess was in Polish captivity.  Therefore, the text he quotes 
is no official NAZI Order.  At most, it is recollection.  Is more 
explanation needed?

FPBERG


Article 13598 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Shein shines
Date: 7 Jul 1994 16:15:40 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
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mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

>     For a better look, try the 1947 or 1948 almanac, which will have
>numbers from after the WJC could once more actually do something in
>Europe.  (I haven't even bothered to read it myself.)  Do some simple
>subtraction and come back and report to the class on what you find there
>about how many Jews were killed. 

Why would anybody in his right mind think the Almanac figures for 1947 or
1948 are any better than the figures for 1945.  The fact is there were no
reliable census figures for Eastern Europe in any of these years either.

For some excellent discussions of Jewish population statistics read: 1)
Arthur Butz-The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, and 2) Walter Sanning-The
Dissolution of the European Jews.  Both books are available from:
The Institute for Historical Review
P.O. Box2739
Newport Beach, CA 92659

Stein continues:
> The Reinhard camps had only one purpose, death.  At these camps, except 
for the prisoners 
>assisting in the killing, all inmates were killed by bullet or gas chamber 
>(leaving aside the question of whether they really asphyxiated rather than 
>succumbing to carbon monoxide, which is what everyone including their 
>killers believed) and there was no pretense of work.  

The truth is totally different.  The purpose of the Reinhard Camps which
means Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor was to KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE--even Jews. 
And that, was the ONLY purpose.  All of these camps were at important
border railroad crossings (Treblinka and Belzec were at river crossings as
well) and were an important part of a cordon sanitaire to prevent the
spread of disease from one region to another.  The principal disease about
which the Germans were concerned was typhus.  

That was why people had to get off the trains, take off their clothing
which would be fumigated while they took showers.  When they completed
their showers, they would receive their cleaned clothing and be able to
reboard and travel to another destination.  That procedure, basically a
delousing procedure, was widely used by the Germans-not just for Jews-but
for everyone including German soldiers crossing the cordon.  Numerous
accounts of what life was actually like in these places reflect the actual
concern for taking showers and delousing and washing clothing.  The
accounts one reads in the popular literature, however, generally have some
connection to mass murder added to them in order to totally distort the
true LIFE-SAVING function of those camps. 

Read the revisionist literature and your eyes will open.  If you restrict 
your reading on this subject to only the political correct, you will have 
yourself to thank for your ignorance.

The truth may set you free.

FPBERG

P.S/  what follows are more ravings from Stein:
>testimonies, Rudolf Ho"ss's autobiography, the diary of SS Dr. Kremer, the 
>Franke-Gricksch report, the letter from Just to Rauff, the letters from 
>Becker to Rauff, the testimony of Alter Fajnzylberg, the testimony of David 
>Olere, the testimony of - but why go on?  The Holocaust deniers call them 
>LIES, ALL LIES and FORGERIES, ALL FORGERIES.  But do they ever produce any 
>evidence?  Do they ever prove their claims?
  
ANSWER: Yes, they prove their claims all the time--but, the
exterminationists, the HATEMONGERS, will be terribly upset if they learn
you are actually reading revisionist writings--because the revisionist
literature proves that it is the exterminationists who are the LIARS. 
 
>     If you're really open-minded about this, I urge you to find a copy
of >Jean-Claude Pressac's work, "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the
Gas >Chambers."  Pressac was once a revisionist himself.  However, he did
his own >thinking.  He spent an amazing amount of time checking out
stories, >examining documents and the physical evidence, looking for every
little >contradiction and error.  His conclusion?  Homicidal gassing did
in fact >take place at Auschwitz. 

ANSWER:  In his monumental work--AUSCHWITZ: Technique and Operation of the
Gas Chambers, J-C Pressac in effect concedes and admits that he cannot
prove that even one person was ever gassed to death at Auschwitz.  All he
has, and this is perfectly clear in his Chapter 8, are "39 Criminal
Traces" and no proof AT ALL. His book is a monumental tribute to the
revisionists who continue to fight the hordes of hate.  The revisionists
are winning.  The ultiimate victory is theirs alone because they are
right. 




Article 13599 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Shein shines
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 7 Jul 1994 16:15:40 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <2vg1n0$li4@access1.digex.net>
	<2vhnpc$po2@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 03:20:33 GMT
Lines: 50


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>Why would anybody in his right mind think the Almanac figures for 1947 or
>1948 are any better than the figures for 1945.

As Mr Stein explained in the paragraph preceding the one you responded
to a 1945 Almanac would be prepared during the year 1944. The war in
Europe ended around April 1945. The 1945 Almanac would traditionally
be published before even that, they often show up around December of
the previous year (December 1944 in this case), sometimes earlier.

So it's likely a 1945 Almanac would have little clue that 6 million
Jews had been killed recently, many after the Almanac was
published. Their numbers would reflect some simple extrapolations
(particularly in trying to estimate population figures in a war zone.)

Perhaps by 1947 or 1948 these facts would be accounted for.

>The fact is there were no
>reliable census figures for Eastern Europe in any of these years either.

Yes, yes, nothing is reliable enough for you.

At any rate, it was a holocaust-denier who was claiming they were
reliable and was trying to draw a conclusion from the 1945 figures.

That was what was preposterous. Thank you for confirming this.

>For some excellent discussions of Jewish population statistics read: 1)
>Arthur Butz-The Hoax of the Twentieth Century,

I think I'd prefer an Almanac...

How attracted would you be to getting facts and figures from
Lipstadt's book? That's about how I feel about Butz's book.

Then again I suppose with you guys anything that isn't written to
propagandize your point of view is not a reliable reference.



>The truth may set you free.

Your truth is worth every penny of "free".

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13638 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: back to basics
Date: 9 Jul 1994 08:54:32 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <2vm6m8$mh@mary.iia.org>
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu> <1994Jul6.174911.23969@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <2vhkh4$isd@mary.iia.org> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

murray@bambi.aes.mb.doe.CA (	MetTech Murray Rennie	) writes:

>Are you implying that a recollection of an event has no validity whatsoever?
>I assume that you believe the Hoess memoirs were written by Hoess while
>under Polish "influence".  If this is indeed what you believe, supply
>proof.  

Dear Mr. Rennie,

I am certainly NOT trying to imply that a "recollection" has no validity, 
simply that the so-called Hoess "Confession" is not a Nazi- wartime.  It 
was written, if the Translator's Note by Constantine FotzGibbon is to be 
believed at the beginning of--Commandant of Auschwitz:The Autobiography 
of Rudolf Hoess--Popular Library, NY, 1951, pages 5-7, in "January and 
Februaru of 1947, that is to say, after the preliminary inquiries had 
been completed, but before he faced trial."

Recollections do have validity, but when they are the obvious result of 
torture--sane people do tend to reject them.

An old axiom of police work going back at least as far as the middle ages 
and witchcraft trials is the following:  If you have no evidence, try to 
get a confession.  

To get a written statement like Hoess's under the circumstances was 
rather easy.  Any good communist interrogator--Russian communist or 
Polish would have certainly qualified--would have known how to do it 
easily enough.  If his SS personnel records were available as they 
probably were, it was even easier.  
   
    "Sit down Herr Hoess and write your entire life-story--we have time,
and tell us everything."  Hoess writes for a few days and then submits his
text.  The interrogator then tells Hoess: "That was good but you did not
mention anything about all those people you murdered--you must add that
and describe the process in detail."  Hoess protests but is persuaded to
cooperate.  He writes a new text, which is resubmitted and then rejected
because this or that is missing.  After numerous rewrites, a satisfactory
text is finally produced--which means it says what the interrogator wants
the defendant to say, personal info is window-dressing--and, it is in the
defendant's own handwriting with all kinds of personal details: therefore,
to the idiots who cannot think beyond the obvious--It Must Be A Genuine,
Voluntary Confession. 

    For all those people, who cannot believe Hoess was under "duress", we 
have some slightly used bridges around here that can be purchased for a 
very good price.

    Holocaust is a HOAX.  Except for some rather short and vague sections 
pertaining to mass murder, the vast bulk of the Hoess confession is 
totally irrelevant to the Holocaust charges--except for convincing the 
naive that those short and vague sections have some credibility.  
Auschwitz was a nice place to spend the war--compared to many of the 
alternatives.

FPBERG


Article 13639 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: back to basics
Date: 9 Jul 1994 16:20:09 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <2vn0pp$m64@mary.iia.org>
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu> <1994Jul6.174911.23969@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <2vhkh4$isd@mary.iia.org> <2vmguu$dc9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Keren,

Do try to read more carefully.  Revisionists have been 
studying the so-called Hoess "autobiography" and the 
"confessions" ever since they first appeared.  Our 
objections go far beyond the fact that they were written 
after the war.

In any event, those supposed writings by Hoess are NOT Nazi 
wartime documents--as someone had claimed a few days ago.

The reliance of the exterminationist hatemongers on Hoess's postwar 
"statements" merely underlines the fact that the exterminationists have 
no real evidence.  Old Axiom: "If you have no evidence, try to get a 
confession."  Torquemada understood that and he may have been only partly 
Jewish.

FPBERG



Article 13641 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Austin App and the Numbers Game...
Date: 9 Jul 1994 17:18:12 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <2vn46k$orn@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v71lt$oos@search01.news.aol.com> <1994Jul05.074446.9228@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <2vcfgv$f7v@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vjijr$lin@ankh.iia.org> <2vmi2u$e02@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers,

Let me guess why Keren calls App a "swine."  He read Deborah 
Lipstadt's book--Denying the Holocaust--pages 88 and 89 and since she 
condemns App, he follows in step.  He never actually read what App had 
written.  Tell me if I am wrong.

For the benefit of Internet users above Keren's level, I give the 
following from Debbie's source--Morgenthau Era Letters--by Austin J. App, 
1966, Boniface Press, page 49:


                              316 San Pedro, San Antonio 1, Texas
                              May 15, 1945

Time
330 East 22nd Street
Chicago, Ill.

To the Editor:
     In your April 30 issue you printed several pages of so-called German 
atrocities.  And you also printed one item to show that We Americans, 
given the chance and excuse, are capable of the worst atrocities we 
allege against others.
     Since you print the atrocity stories, I do hope you will also print
this.  In war both sides commit atrocities.  In World War I both sides
were finally proven to have shared shame about equally.  It was also
proven that the atrocities did not do the great harm.  THE HARM WAS DONE
BY THE ATROCITY STORIES.  It was atrocity stories that made the British
burn Joan of Arc at the stake as a war criminal, It was the atrocity
stories that made Americans tolerate the scrapping of the just Fourteen
Points for the greatest of all atrocities--the Versailles Treaty, which
violated virtually every canon of justice.  [Boldface added by FPB for
emphasis]
     Now you quote one of our great admirals, William F. Halsey.  He 
wants to kill two Japanese officers, without trial or charge, for 
every American prisoner who died after Bataan.  The Germans, in 
accordance with our own laws, executed everybody at Lidice who gave 
aid to political murderers.  And we pretended horror--and cried 
atrocity.  Now Admiral Halsey wants to murder two Japanese officers 
for every American prisoner lost, two Japanese officers who had 
absolutely nothing to do with the case!  I beg you to tell us if 
any equally responsible German has ever expressed an atrocity 
principle as great as our own Admiral Halsey's.  Give our 
Morgenthaus and Halseys just a little more time and they will get 
around to insisting that for every American killed or wounded in 
the war our boys must rape every German and Japanese girl!

                   Sincerely,         
                               Austin J. App, Ph.D.


The above letter, which is nothing less than a courageous appeal to 
compassion and decency and to resist Halsey's call for an atrocity, is 
used by Lipstadt to villify App.  The real "swine" are Lipstadt and Keren. 

Even if App's brief interpretation of the Lidice event were completely
wrong, I am sure he believed in that view sincerely.  I knew him
personally.  He told me many years after the war that when he spoke out
during and after the war, he did not have the information that was
available to the revisionists decades later.  He had placed his faith, he
told me, in what saw as the inherent decency and goodness of the
German people.  Austin J. App was right. 

FPBERG


Article 13669 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I've been away, I need an answer from a revisionist.
Date: 10 Jul 1994 15:28:19 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 14
Distribution: world,local
Message-ID: <2vpi4j$opa@mary.iia.org>
References:  <2vi9sf$f0m@ankh.iia.org>  <2vn5c4$pd5@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Reader,

Where does one suppose that Fleming got the following document?  Hitler 
and the Final Solution is only a secondary source.  Does the document 
have an origin, a provenance, a Nuremberg doument no.?  Perhaps the 
scholars will inform us.

>Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
>[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
>Press, 1984, p. 70]

No doubt, this is too much to ask for.

FPBERG


Article 13670 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies Re "Operation Reinhard" Camps (was: Re: Shein shines
Date: 10 Jul 1994 15:55:07 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <2vpjmr$r4l@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <2vg1n0$li4@access1.digex.net> <2vhnpc$po2@mary.iia.org> <2vmh71$dkf@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vmj5m$ek7@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vnn1d$bfo@ankh.iia.org> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Schaeffer,

Let's see if you can learn something.

Whether or not the court can accept or cannot accept hearsay evidence is not 
in dispute.  It seems clear enough that in this case, the court did 
accept that story as evidence.

But, is the story from Stangl "hearsay" or not?  If you agree that it is 
"hearsay" then surely you will also agree that it is not very good 
evidence at all.  Stangl was the defendant.

FPBERG




Article 13671 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: TREBLINKA - The Killing Begins
Date: 10 Jul 1994 16:03:28 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <2vpk6g$s0h@mary.iia.org>
References: <1994Jul06.110003.15451@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <2vl79h$k@ankh.iia.org> <2vn8aq$r1a@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vnrbr$bfo@ankh.iia.org> <2voi76$jtv@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org


Dear Readers,

What a wonderful demonstration of Talmudic Logic D. Keren has just 
provided us.  In a previous response, I noted that some 
supposed eyewitness testimony about Belzec that I believe 
Mcvay had presented made no mention at all of gaschambers or 
gassings of anyone and therefore was not consistent at all 
with the Gerstein statement.  If the other statements had 
merely said the Nazis had made anti-Semitic remarks,  for 
Keren that would be proof of or consistent with a gassing 
story.

dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>Obviously, many people died on the trains and many were shot. Most
>were gassed.

>Berg now claims that since some people were shot and some died on
>the trains, that means no one was gassed. The man is gradually losing
>the little sanity he might have had.

>-Danny Keren.
FPBERG


Article 13693 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: TREBLINKA - The Killing Begins
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 10 Jul 1994 16:03:28 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <1994Jul06.110003.15451@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <2vl79h$k@ankh.iia.org>
	<2vn8aq$r1a@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vnrbr$bfo@ankh.iia.org>
	<2voi76$jtv@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vpk6g$s0h@mary.iia.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 04:26:50 GMT
Lines: 52


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>What a wonderful demonstration of Talmudic Logic D. Keren has just 
>provided us.

Um, in most non-Nazi circles "talmudic logic" means complicated but
correct, intellectually challenging. I suppose among your friends it's
just another euphemism for "jewish logic", ie, bad, deceiving.

>In a previous response, I noted that some 
>supposed eyewitness testimony about Belzec that I believe 
>Mcvay had presented made no mention at all of gaschambers or 
>gassings of anyone and therefore was not consistent at all 
>with the Gerstein statement.

Ok, here's one:

--------------------
During my visit to Kumhof I also saw the extermination installation,
with the lorry which had been set up for killing by means of motor
exhaust fumes. The head of the Kommando told me that this method,
however, was very unreliable, as the gas build-up was very irregular
and was often insufficient for killing.

	Rudolf Hoss, Commandant of Auschwitz, on a visit to Chelmno
	on 16 September 1942

--------------------

Happy?


Another silly attempt at a trick by Berg, he's unhappy with
some bunch of evidence presented to him because it lacks something
he was looking for, perhaps justified in looking for.

But Berg "concludes" that this must mean this evidence doesn't exist.

But he's seen the above quote, for example, many times on this list
alone.

So he's fully aware of the evidence, but will pick a note that has no
such evidence and say see, there is no evidence.

You fool no one, Mr Berg, you shall have to try much harder.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13697 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: back to basics
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 9 Jul 1994 08:54:32 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu>
	<1994Jul6.174911.23969@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <2vhkh4$isd@mary.iia.org>
	 <2vm6m8$mh@mary.iia.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 05:17:17 GMT
Lines: 25


Berg,

Cut the bullshit. If Hoess was tortured and you are so sure of this
then by all means provide some sources and details and stop making
statements from the assertion that this is true.

Personally nothing I have indicates this one way or the other. That's
just a fact, not a conclusion. Perhaps it did happen. But surely you
can take a moment and enlighten us all.

>An old axiom of police work going back at least as far as the middle ages 
>and witchcraft trials is the following:  If you have no evidence, try to 
>get a confession.  

Yeah yeah, middle ages, witchcraft trials, good good, great images, so
what's the story here?

This is really beating about the bush.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13699 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: back to basics
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 9 Jul 1994 16:20:09 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu>
	<1994Jul6.174911.23969@hobbes.kzoo.edu> <2vhkh4$isd@mary.iia.org>
	<2vmguu$dc9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vn0pp$m64@mary.iia.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 05:27:58 GMT
Lines: 40


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>The reliance of the exterminationist hatemongers on Hoess's postwar 
>"statements" merely underlines the fact that the exterminationists have 
>no real evidence.

Berg is caught lying again.

No one is relying on Hoess' post-war statements.

He just grasps onto these little flights of fancy, pay him no mind.

There are mountains of other evidence. The only interest in Hoess'
confessions is that they are reasonably consistent with other
materials. A person under duress might tell the truth also.

So one question is, if Hoess' confessions (however obtained) were
consistent with others' testimonies, and Hoess did not have access to
that testimony (or did he?), then how did he fabricate a story
consistent in detail with others'? How does he fabricate statements
found only years later in Eichmann's personal notes, long after his
own confession and death (Hoess was hanged on April 7, 1947.) Even his
captors had no access to these.

But the real question is: What duress or torture or whatever was Hoess
subjected to? And how do you know this?

Surely you can at least live up to your own high standards of evidence
in answering this simple question. You have made it clear that you
believe this deeply, there must be a reason (other than you would like
it to be so.) So share that reason with us. Why do you believe so
unshakingly that Hoess was tortured?

Without reference to Torquemada, please.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13700 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Austin App and the Numbers Game...
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 9 Jul 1994 17:18:12 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <2v71lt$oos@search01.news.aol.com> <1994Jul05.074446.9228@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
	<2vcfgv$f7v@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vjijr$lin@ankh.iia.org>
	<2vmi2u$e02@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vn46k$orn@mary.iia.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 05:30:30 GMT
Lines: 14


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>For the benefit of Internet users above Keren's level, I give the 
>following from Debbie's source


So when did you start calling Deborah Lipstadt "Debbie"? Hmm, Freddy?


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13740 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies Re "Operation Reinhard" Camps (was: Re: Shein shines
Date: 11 Jul 1994 19:15:18 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 40
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers, 

The most dramatic presentation of Holocaust "eyewitnesses" that I have
ever seen was the Demjanjuk Trial in Israel.  Four Treblinka survivors
repeatedly identified Demjanjuk as Ivan the Terrible who supposedly
operated the Diesel and did all sorts of other atrocious deeds in the
process.  Some of the four, I cannot remember exactly how many, claimed
they saw Demjanjuk "everyday."   Epstein even claimed he saw Demjanjuk 
start the Diesel by "pushing the button" which one cannot do even today 
for Mercedes Diesel cars (a two-step process with a preheat of several 
seconds is still required today).  There were many more blunders as well. 

Demjanjuk was sentenced by the court to "hang,"--but, eventually the court 
reversed itself completely.  Obviously, the court had caved in to 
neo-Nazi pressure and the enormous influence of revionists worldwide.

A number of potential "eyewitnesses" were notable by their absence.  In 
the film "Shoah" made by the French Jew Claude Lanzman, a lengthy segment 
was devoted to an interview of a barber, now living in Israel and still 
working there as a barber.  He claimed in the film that he actually cut 
the hair of naked women "inside the gaschamber."  When he was finished, 
he would step out, the women would be gassed and then he would eventually 
return to cut the hair of the next batch.  The entire text of the film is 
available in a paperback which I suggest everyone read.  Amazingly 
enough, he was never called to testify at the Demjanjuk trial.

In any event, the Israeli court trying the most important case in its
entire history since the Eichmann trial, admitted that it could not
believe its own witnesses.  So much for eyewitness testimony.  There is
usually some truth in every piece of such testimony--but where the truth
begins and ends--and where the falsehoods begin and end, is very difficult
to prove unless there is a great deal of hard evidence as well. For the
claims that people were killed in Nazi gaschambers,--there is no hard
evidence at all, or photos, or construction drawings or anything
else--except for a very few documents which are demonstrable forgeries
such as 501-PS.  Those documents are another subject and the discussion is
too complex for this Internet audience. 


FPBERG 


Article 13741 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUTZ: "I don't want to hear anymore of this!"
Date: 11 Jul 1994 19:20:03 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 9
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References: <1994Jul11.043512.18067@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers,

The Kopecky nonsense is refuted already by Pressac.  I won't even bother
responding any further.  In: AUSCHWITZ: Techniques and Operation of the 
Gas Chambers--Pressacs that he can not present even a single proof--only 
"39 criminal traces."

FPBERG
 


Article 13751 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel A, B, C's and Scott Mullins
Date: 11 Jul 1994 23:41:50 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 192
Distribution: world,local
Message-ID: <2vt3du$t0b@mary.iia.org>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers,

Scott Mullins has challenged me with several questions which I have
answered.  He then responded then with some of the usual Holocaust
true-believer, wiseguy talk--but, mixed with some half-reasoned arguments. 
Some progress is making itself evident. But, Mullins is obviously NO
engineer.  I have a B.Sc from Columbia University, School of Mines, Class
of 1965 and have worked all over the place, including airports, as an
engineer. 

Mullins should try to run a heavily-loaded 150 HP engine, that is still
small, with a propeller or fan in a closed loop without making lots and
lots of noise.  Then do it with a 500HP engine.  Mullins won't have to
pinch himself to wake up to reality. 

Purdue has, I believe, an engineering department.  I suggest Mullins go to
the mechanical engineering department and find someone to explain a few
things--he will not believe it if I do it. 

>Again, thank you for admitting this so readily. Applying the
>"proper load" is also not a problem. You would simply hook up
>the engine, load some Jews into the chambers, and then perform your
>test. Repeat until they died in the manner that you desire.
>What could be easier? There were certainly plenty of test
>subjects. 6 million or so.

>> Simply jacking up the rear wheels of a Diesel truck and attaching 
>> some kind of small fan can certainly be done.  But, to be realistic one 
>> would want to remove the engine and attach it to some kind of device to 
>> impose a variable, controlled load.  
>> The load must be matched to the engine's performance characteristics.

>The application of a variable load is nowhere near as difficult
>as you try to make it out to be. I also don't see the necessity of
>going through such machinations. They weren't trying to perform 
>brain surgery here. In this case "close" counts just as much as
>in horse-shoes or hand-grenades.

>> QUESTION: : Why wouldn't a large fan attached : to the output shaft have
>> been sufficient for this purpose?  
>> ANSWER:  A large fan could possibly do
>> it,--but it would have to be an awfully big fan to put a heavy load on a
>> 150HP engine.  If your engine is a 500-600HP V12 from a T-34 tank, you'll
>> have to use an enormous fan.  A three or more-bladed propeller might be
>> better.  You're going to move an awful lot of air and you're going to wake
>> up the neighbors miles down the road.

>Uhmm, I don't think so. If you take an enclosed blower and simply
>throttle the output you can apply a good deal of Bhp to the engine.
>The air in this case doesn't have to "move" anywhere. Such enclosed
>blowers certainly wouldn't "wake up the neighbors". If this were so
>how would any large building obtain air-conditioning without
>violating the noise ordinances?

The above is PURE BULLSHIT!!  Big fan blades with belt-drives and pulleys 
and low fan RPM's and low HP are the answer for the large airconditioning 
fans on large buildings--and even then, they are still noisy.  A lot of 
experience and skill is required just to reduce vibration and noise with 
proper vibration isolation and support.

Mullins has obviously been reading a Rube Goldberg engineering textbook.
If the air is not free to "move" somewhere, it is going to get very hot,
fast and one is going to have an explosion.  Mullins should talk to
someone who has actually run some tests on engines. I was the best in my
class as far as such testing and labwork.  Columbia probably still has my
lab reports on file somewhere because they were exceptionally well-done. 
But, any mechanical engineering department has at least one engine testing
lab--its basic to the curriculum--and there Mullins may be able to get
someone to give him a demonstration.  University labs use small engines
usually and so one must try to imagine the much higher noise levels for
150 HP engines and larger. The labs are well insulated usually to reduce
the sound carried to other areas of the buildings. 

>> Since the load of any fan or
>> propeller varies non=lineraly with RPM, it is still quite a trick to
>> choose the right sized fan or propeller.  Ivan with the big wrench won't
>> know how. 
>Not at all. You just change the size of the outlet until you achieve
>the desired load on the engine. I am surprised that you find this
>to be such a difficult question. 
>No expensive test equipment needed, no special expertise.
>Just keep loading in "test Jews" until you get it right.
>In addition, I'm still not convinced that simply throttling the
>intake to the engine wouldn't achieve a very similar effect. You
>would have to prove that to me.

The above is MORE BULLSHIT!  Pattle et al proved a lot.  Pattle et al 
reduced the size of the air intake to less than 3% of its normal size and 
still got a CO level in the exhaust of only 0.17%

Take a visit if you can to a GM testing facility or wherever someone
might be testing large engines under heavy loads.  I dare say the
first thing they are going to insist on is that you wear heavy duty
hearing protectors. 

In the Holtz paper I cited from 1960, there are two extremely relevant 
sections which your challenge has prodded me to notice.  I urge you to 
read them also.  The first section is: "Engine tests" on pages 68 and 69.  
The second and more important section is: "Problems in Field Testing" on 
pages 74 through 77.  If after reading those sections, you still believe you 
can do the same thing with your methods--please go to the USBM and 
enlighten them.  You will brighten their day.

The Holtz section: "Maintenance" on pages 63 and 66 gives excellent info 
on the minimal effects of wear and damage as far as CO levels in 
Diesel exhaust.

>[Berg's 
speculations >> In 1984 I wrote the following in my article on page 38:
>>      "For all their efforts they would have had an average 
>>       concentration of less than 0.4% carbon monoxide and more than 4%
>>       oxygen.

>I'm sorry, but this is simply false. The Elliot-Davis paper that
>you cite _clearly_ demonstrates that diesel engines can 
>generate CO concentrations of approximately 1.0% and O2 concentrations
>less than 2.0% at fuel/air ratios _less_than_stoichiometric_.
>For proof please see figure 4 on page 333 of the Elliot-Davis paper.

What I wrote is not false at all. Figure 4 shows some data taken beyond
the normal operating range of the engine.  From the upper limit of the
normal operating range to stoichiometric, there is still quite a stretch. 
Read Elliott and Davis again.  You can only get to stoichiometric by
operating at GREATER than FULL LOAD.  Read pages 334 and 335. 
Stoichiometric means a fuel/air ratio of 0.068.  That is far beyond the
NORMAL operating ranges for Diesels which peak between 0.045 and 
0.055. Within the normal operating range, the C engine puts out what I 
said it does. 

If you operate above the Normal Operating Range of fuel/air ratios,
you produce excessive quantities of smoke rapidly. That is why I 
referred to the discussion by E.W. Landen at the end of the Elliott and 
Davis paper and why I included his diagram as well.  At fuel/air ratios 
beyond about 0.055, the smoke "solid" line becomes almost vertical and that 
means, according to Landen on page 346: "short engine life."
And that, is still far below, stoichiometric.

Jamie McCarthy has a copy by now of the entire E & D article with 
discussion--perhaps he can fax you a copy.

There is some technical complexity to this subject matter,  
Exterminationists who have enormous resources available to them have been 
too lazy--to put it as mildly as one imagine.  Before you accuse someone 
of murder, make sure you have a murder weapon that makes sense.  

>> Read my article from 1984.  
There is a lot more. 

Surely, you must agree that to make a lethal Diesel gas chamber, a lot 
more is involved than simply connecting the exhaust pipe of a 
Diesel-driven tank or truck to a closed room.  Otherwise, just headaches.

Surely you must agree that to make a lethal Diesel gas chamber, 
a lot more is involved than simply turning an adjustment screw 
somewhere on the Diesel engine.  Otherwise, just headaches.

Surely, you must also agree that to make a lethal Diesel gas 
chamber, a lot more is involved than simply restricting the 
air intake to the engine.  Otherwise, a barely noticeable effect.
(See my tabulation from Henderson and Haggard.)

If you cannot even agree to all of the above, then you are simply an
incorrigible living tribute to the hustlers of hate.  The fact, which you
may indeed never concede (and that is entirely up to you), is that any 
Diesel gaschamber method is absurd. 

If one talks to ordinary non-technical persons, most will express the
opinion that Diesel exhaust is dangerous because, after all, it smells so
terrible.  But then talk to automechanics who work on buses or trucks
regularly.  The ones I have met, and there have been more than a few, all
believed that Diesels produced "no CO at all."   They were wrong, but 
their comments show that in the general perception of people who work with
Diesels, Diesel exhaust is regarded as rather harmless.  Why would the 
Germans have been any different?

As an alternative which they were required, by law, to know was extremely
deadly, the Germans had producer gas generators--18% to 35% CO--on
hundreds of thousands of trucks.  Those generators were extremely
dangerous--everyone had to know that because gas leaks were not only toxic
but also highly explosive!  When the engines were shutoff, the generators
would keep on generating until the internal fire could be extinguished. 
Can anyone really believe the Germans would have used Diesel exhaust as a
source of CO, when they had 18% to 35% CO?  These were essentially the
same people who built the first jet and rocket-propelled fighter
airplanes, the first ballistic missiles, who also invented the gasoline
engine, Diesel engine and even the automobile.  I can't really believe
that Mullins can be that stupid--but, then again, perhaps he is? 

FPBERG

P.S. Read more from the IHR and CODOH at P.O. 3267, Visalia, CA 93278, 
tel./fax." 1-(209)-627-8757.


Article 13827 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies Re "Operation Reinhard" Camps (was: Re: Shein shines
Date: 14 Jul 1994 01:22:45 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <302i35$mpd@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <2vqdkc$obv@ankh.iia.org> <2vqloc$r24@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <2vsjq6$3f2@mary.iia.org> <2vvhdr$laj@mits.mdata.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Nenonen,

My reference to the power of revisionists and neo-Nazis was sarcastic, 
what we often call "tongue in cheek."  I am sorry you took that sentence 
seriously.  

The power and influence of revisionists today is still small--but, it is
growing because the revisionist message is a message whose time has come. 
And the message is the Truth.  No one was ever killed in any gaschambers
in the Third Reich.  The people who say otherwise have no idea as to what
they are talking about.  For example, the recent debate here on the
Internet about Diesel gas chambers proves that.  Not one of the defenders
of the hoax, not even Scott Mullins who seemed as if he might have some
common sense, could offer any rational explanation as to how the Nazis
might have constructed a Diesel gas chamber. 

Whenever any solid, new or objective evidence regarding the German
concentration camps emerges, for whatever reason--it invariably supports
and often proves conclusively that the revisionist claims are correct. 
For example, the aerial reconnaisance photos of Auschwitz prove that many
of the so-called eyewitnesses, in what was supposedly the worst of all the
concentration camps, are scurrilous liars.  Not simply mistaken--but
scurrilous liars.   Thousands of victims of gaschambers were supposedly 
burned everyday in open pits at Birkenau--the aerial phots prove that 
claim is a monstrous lie.  

Holocaust revisionism is unstoppable inspite of all the Jewish hate 
propaganda and the successful efforts of Jewish bigots to persuade 
many European countries to imprison people for merely pronouncing the 
truth--the Holocaust story is a hoax.  The truth is more than that, however: 
the Holocaust story is not just a hoax--it is a dirty Jewish Hoax.  

FPBERG



Article 13846 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies Re "Operation Reinhard" Camps (was: Re: Shein shines
Date: 14 Jul 1994 22:45:38 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <304t8i$30g@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <2vsjq6$3f2@mary.iia.org> <2vvhdr$laj@mits.mdata.fi> <302i35$mpd@mary.iia.org> <3048q6$i7a@mits.mdata.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Nenonen,

I do not have much time tonight but I will try to give you something in 
the way of answer.  

The story you give about people dying accidentally in a boat from Diesel 
exhaust is simply absurd.  If you would take the trouble to check the 
facts, you would find that the facts are totally different from what you 
are claiming.  It is obvious to me that you simply have no idea as to 
what you are talking about and, I strongly suspect, that you have made up 
the story.   At idle or under very light load, any Diesel ever built will 
contain less than 0.1 CO.  That is barely enough CO to give a headache in 
half-an-hour.  If you add some ventilation, you will not even have 0.1% CO. 

As to the aerial photos, they were taken every month from April 1944 until
January 1945--during the period of many months when the alleged mass
murders and cremations were going on with the greatest intensity,
supposedly.  When I was in Auschwitz the guide told my group that in the
summer of 1944 as many as 24,000 people were murdered and cremated per
day--and since the crematoria could only dispose of a maximum of 8,000 per
day, the rest (up to 16,000 per day) had to be burned in open pits.  That
story is simply insane. 

Also, it was claimed that the crematoria chimneys poured forth smoke and 
flame that could be seen for miles 24 hours per day.  In a report 
entitled "THE HOLOCAUST REVISITED" published by the CIA in February 1979 
on page 11 we have the following statement: "Although survivors recalled 
that smoke and flame emanated continually from the crematoria chimneys 
and was visible for miles, the photographs we examined gave no positive 
proof of this."  That statement is an understatement because if you do 
examine the photos and large duplicate negatives which can be purchased 
through the National Archives in  Washington, DC.--you will find that 
there is not even a whisper of smoke near any of the chimneys on any of 
the photos or negatives.  Clearly, the "survivors" were lying.  No open 
pits with burning bodies or bodies of any other kind either.

Auschwitz was a nice place to spend the war compared to many of the 
alternatives.

FPBERG 


Article 13867 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies Re "Operation Reinhard" Camps (was: Re: Shein shines
Date: 15 Jul 1994 16:58:02 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <306t8q$p7u@mary.iia.org>
References: <2v84a2$362@search01.news.aol.com> <3048q6$i7a@mits.mdata.fi> <304t8i$30g@mary.iia.org> <30637b$k2l@access2.digex.net> <306abv$t3t@mits.mdata.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Mr. Nenonen,

Obviously, the "facts" from your sources are rather vague.  Apparently 
the newspaper did not specify Diesel.  

I suggest that if the story you have given bears any relation at all to 
what really happened, then the engine was not a "Diesel" but only a 
rather ordinary gasoline engine instead.

There are many accidental or suicidal deaths from ordinary gasoline 
engine exhaust.  However, as to accidental or suicidal death from Diesel 
exhaust--it is unheard of.  I have spent years trying to find a single 
case of any kind of death from Diesel--and, I have found absolutely 
nothing.  

Even for underground mining operations where serious hazards can arise 
due to recirculation of engine exhaust back through the engine and where 
from a theoretical perspective there is reason to be concerned, the 
number of actual, verifiable deaths is nil.  Such deaths would certainly 
be the subject of at least one USBM study or report, but there is nothing 
of the sort.

FPBERG


Article 13869 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hostages Etc.
Date: 15 Jul 1994 18:15:28 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <3071q0$3uk@mary.iia.org>
References:      
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Dear Readers,

McCarthy and Shein seem to shudder at the suggestion that they might be
"anti-German."  Well, if they are not anti-German, why do they continue to
spread Holocaust propaganda?  Why haven't they had the decency and good
sense to recognize that they have not one shred of good evidence that even
one person was ever killed in any Nazi gas chamber?  Why do the both of
them continue to spread the stupid lie that the Germans were killing
hundreds of thousands in Diesel gas chambers?  Those are just a few 
examples one can chose from many.

The fact is that Shein and McCarthy were fed a hefty diet of anti-German 
lies with their mother's milk; they are addicted to the diet.  They have 
grown to love that diet,  For them to give it up, is like the fat lady 
giving up her twinkies and chocolates.

But what is worse, they look at themselves in the mirror and instead of
recognizing just how fat and hideous they really are--they think they are
actually beautiful and intelligent and reasonable.  And to prove it,  
they have each others testimonials and congratulations.

These creatures--Shein and McCarthy, Keren and Stein--are essentially the
same as an earlier generation who did commit far worse atrocities than
anything the Jews in their wildest imagination have ever accused the
Nazi-Germans of committing.  Those creatures turned entire cities into
crematory ovens and roasted alive hundreds of thousands of totally
innocent women and children.  They are hypocrites at best.  They are
certainly hatemongers.  They are apologists for the worst criminals
and war crimes in the entire history of the world. 

The fact that most of these creatures are Jewish is no coincidence.  The
Holocaust hoax is an essential feature of modern Jewish identity just as
the imagined persecutions of Jews by Pharoah and others was an essential
feature to earlier Jewish generations.  In other words, there is an
enormous genetic component to the Holocaust hoax.  It is essentially a
Jewish hoax that has been carefully taylored to appeal to unsuspecting
goyim.   McCarthy and Mcvay and Mullins are typical goyim fools who 
continue to let themselves be taken in.

Someone wrote the following: 
>On the contrary, the surprising thing is that even after he led the 
>country to the brink of disaster and then jumped off headlong, there 
>was quite an lot of Naziphilia in Germany in the years immediately 
>after the war. 

Cookoo.  What in the world was the person who wrote the above dreaming of? 
The nazi party was and is still prohibited--so much for democracy in
postwar Germany.  Despite the government, many people in Germany are still
proud to be Germans and that is automatically branded as neo-Nazism by the
hatemongers; so typical.  Any real dissent in Germany is still crushed
today--sometimes by brute force and imprisonment, sometimes by removal
from employment, and sometimes more subtly by denial of educational
opportunity. 

Judeo-communism is still alive and kicking in Germany today.

The following is interesting:
>thoroughly that, even though a substantial portion of the populace 
>would like to overthrow the government, they have no effective
>recourse.  Would you say, Mr. Skaliks, that a significant fraction of
>Germans wished to overthrow Hitler in 1945?  I don't think so.
>Many Germans protested, openly and otherwise, and their efforts are
>surely not forgotten.  But they were, sadly, in the vast minority.

Those who wanted to overthrow Hitler were indeed in the minority; the 
majority had the good sense to recognize that they needed a strong man, 
and Hitler fit the bill, to save them from the Versailles Treaty and the 
anti-German coalition and from JUDEO-COMMUNISM.  If it had not been for 
Hitler, the consequences for the entire world would have been far worse 
that what occurred; Germany would have fallen to the communists in 1933, 
Spain would have fallen to the communists a few years later, France next 
and the rest of Europe shortly thereafter.  

The atomic bomb which was built for use against Nazi Germany would never
have been built by American-Jews for use against a communist,
Jew-dominated Europe.  And without the atomic bomb, America would have
been able to stop no one--Vietnam and Korea proved that.  In other words,
without Hitler, we would all be communists today.  Hitler and Nazi
Germany, despite their defeat, saved everybody's asses.  Even the Jews
should be damned thankful.  Even they are better off in a non-communist
world than in the kind of world they were working so hard to achieve. 

The memories of communism are alive and deep in eastern Europe today.  
There the role of the Jews will not be pushed aside despite all of the 
Jewish lies and propaganda.

FPBERG


Article 13870 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: hostages
Date: 15 Jul 1994 18:21:08 -0400
Organization: International Internet Association.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <30724k$4ep@mary.iia.org>
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: mary.iia.org

Obviously, even if Shein has nothing to say at all, he still must say 
SOMETHING.  Skaliks is absolutely correct: there was no Canadian zone of 
occupation,

FPBERG


Article 13883 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Hostages Etc.
In-Reply-To: bergf@mary.iia.org's message of 15 Jul 1994 18:15:28 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	 <3071q0$3uk@mary.iia.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 04:31:43 GMT
Lines: 38


From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
>McCarthy and Shein seem to shudder at the suggestion that they might be
>"anti-German."  Well, if they are not anti-German, why do they continue to
>spread Holocaust propaganda?

That's easy Freddy, it's because it's not "propaganda" in the sense
you mean, ie, it happened, it's history.

You're the one doing the German people a disservice by claiming to
represent them and then denying these things and throwing around
phrases like "Jewish trash" and "Jewish hoax".

>Judeo-communism is still alive and kicking in Germany today.

Ah, there ya go again.

What a great, great savior and representative of the German people you
are Berg...not!

Say, do Germans ever thank you for what you do?

I bet the average reaction would have you wiping their spit off your
face.

>The memories of communism are alive and deep in eastern Europe today.  
>There the role of the Jews will not be pushed aside despite all of the 
>Jewish lies and propaganda.

Keep digging Berg-o, just keep digging. Soon the hole will be deep
enough even for you and all your bullshit.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 14309 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: charles11@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel A, B, C's and Scott Mullins
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 23:24:56 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References:  <2vt3du$t0b@mary.iia.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com
X-To: Friedrich Berg 

Friedrich Berg  writes:
 
>engine, Diesel engine and even the automobile.  I can't really believe
>that Mullins can be that stupid--but, then again, perhaps he is? 
 
I dont believe any useful purpose is served by calling people names. Why
cannot you keep this discussion at a professional level? If you are an
engineer  that should not be too difficult.
I also happen to be a mechanical engineer  with probably more years experience
that many of you have. I see nothing technically wrong in accepting that
a diesel engine exhausting into a closed room provided with an exhauster
would fill the room with a lethal gas. The percentage of CO is not only a
function of load but also of the air/fuel ratio. It is quite possible to
run a diesel engine "rich" at part-load as well as at full-load. It won't
be efficient but it would produce higher percentages of CO.
Apart from all of this people forced into a closed chamber filled with
exhaust gases would not only die from CO but would also be asphyxiated.
And finally, the argument about gas producers being a better source of
CO is technically correct but not practical because gas producers are
basically custom-built and certainly not as readily available during the
war at a camp near the war zones than diesel engines.
 
Let's try to cut out the emotions and keep this at a dispassionate
technical level.

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