From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:46 EDT 1998
Article: 177854 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
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Dear hatemongers;

You are trying so hard and I have to bust your little bubbles.  Anecdotal fairy
tales of gassings abound, but forensic evidence as one would demand for any
ordinary murder occurring in peacetime--simply does not exist.  There were lots
of bodies for American and other allied forensic experts to examine at the end
of the war and to their hearts content.  Larson and others tried real hard to
come up with something but found nothing.

Give up and see the light.  No one was killed by the Nazis in gaschambers--no
one!

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:46 EDT 1998
Article: 177954 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
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Dear hatemonger,

I am still waiting for some forensic evidence that someone was killed by poison
gas or other poison in a German concentration camp.  Serious evidence would be
a report by a forensic specialist such as Dr. Charles P. Larson of a corpse
that was autopsied and which showed some chemical or other evidence of poison.

As the book --Crime Doctor--shows, Dr. Larson performed many aautopsies on
corpses that he found and had many organs sent to the First Medical Laboratory
in Paris for rigorous analysis--but all the lab results were negative for all
poisons.  See for example page 57 bottom of Crime Doctor by John D. McCallum,
1978.

On pages 60 and 61 we have some further testimony about corpses found at Dachau
>from  Dr. Larson. "I did a lot of toxicological analysis to determine the facts
and removed organs from a cross-section of about 30 or 40 bodies and sent them
into Paris to the Army's First Medical Laboratory for analysis, since I lacked
theproper facilities in the field.  The reports came back negative.  I could
not find where any of these people had been poisoned."

Now which part of "the reports came back negative. etc" don't you understand?

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:47 EDT 1998
Article: 177968 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation of bodies in mass graves: A Case History
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Dear hatemongers,

That sure is an interesting little story you guys dug up--please excuse the
pun.  But do you really mean to show that cremation as is alleged for Auschwitz
is plausible?  I have to bust your bubble again.  

At Auschwitz- Birkenau the ground water table is only about three feet below
the surface.  If one had dug pits anything like what is alleged--18 feet
deep--, they would have been almost completely filled with water.  Even with
tar and gasoline you just wouldn't get a good burn. .

Moreover, the large cremation pits with smoke and flame would have been
dramatically visible in aerial reconnaisance photos from the summer of 1944. 
The fact that they are not visible at all is one more pin in your dirty little
bubble.

Give it up and see the light.  No one was killed in any Nazi gaschambers. 
Auschwitz was a relatively nice and pleasant place to spend the war.  That is
clearly shown not only by the aerial photos, but also in Pressac's "AUSCHWITZ:
Technique and Operation of the Gaschambers" and by a visit to Auschwitz today
where one can still see  many of the most beautiful and solidly built buildings
anywhere in all of Poland within the camp.

FP Berg 
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:47 EDT 1998
Article: 177969 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Auschwitz Album
Lines: 9
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Dear Mr. Mock,

Perhaps you would like to try to explain to me just how the Nazis committed
mass murder with Diesel exhaust.  Perhaps you are unaware that far more people
were supposedly killed with Diesel exhaust and in a far more places than with
Zyklon-B.  

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:48 EDT 1998
Article: 178173 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 39
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Dear Holman,

You are a scurrilous liar.  No one commits suicide with Diesel exhaust--not
even in Finland.  You can't prove your claim with a reference now and you can't
prove it next week either.  You are full of bullshit.

Some years ago I did offer to undergo the test which you suggest but the
Nizkorites became very silent.  Your step 7 is not possible because the smell
of Diesel will not permit anyone to relax--they become extremely irritated and
aroused from the smell.  

In effect, Diesel exhaust has its own built-in warning agent--a kind of wakeup
emergency call.  That is one reason why professional truckers all across
America leave their Diesel engines running at night in cold weather and hot
weather while they are asleep in the cab sleeping compartment.  In cold weather
the idling Diesel keeps the cab warm; in hot weather the idling Diesel keeps
the air conditioning running so as to keep the cab cool.  There are no
accidental deaths or even injuries from accidental leaks in the exhaust piping
>from  Diesels as there are with gasoline engine exhaust pipe leaks.  The
inurance companies wouldn't stand for it and neither would the state police.  

Idling gasoline engines are by contrast a common cause of death for drivers who
are asleep.

By the way, I have a VW diesel Jetta--and the test is a bore.  

If done in an airtight garage, the Diesel will indeed consume the available
oxygen and can certainly kill not from CO but from insufficient oxygen.   But
long before that occurs, the Diesel smell will first provide an irresistable
wakeup call to any wouldbe suicide.
 
Ho-hum.  Try again but stop the BS.  You have been caught several times
already.

FP Berg

P.S. Get the Pattle material from the Brit. Journal of industrial medicine from
1956 and read it carefully before you try to go in over your head.
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:48 EDT 1998
Article: 178175 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
Lines: 25
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Dear Austrian hatemongers,

The alleged gaschamber at Mauthausen is an extremely crude hoax.  The anecdotal
tales you have added are the type of idiocy that one manufactured after the war
with ease.

Please  explain to me just how one can look into a peephole and tell if
everyone inside is dead.  In America where execution with cyanide was perfected
to a high art, it still took from ten to eighteen minutes for a single victim
to die.  The last gassing occurred in North Carolina in 1996.  The victim
prolonged his death by simply holding his breath.  If he hadn't been
yelling--"I am human--I am human" early in the ordeal, he might have held out
even longer.  Death even from cyanide is not the quick neat procedure that
incompetent hatemongers like yourselves want to believe.

And where is an expert report on the alleged Nazi gassings?  There simply is
none as the Austrian engineer Walter Lueftl has shown again and again.  No
scientific verification for the Mauthausen gas chamber claim anywhere-only
"proofs" by  Holocaust "historians" and "scholars" who are incompetent.

Stop disgracing yourself with obscene lies.  No one was killed in any Nazi
gaschambers anywhere. 

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:49 EDT 1998
Article: 178248 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
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Dear Readers,  

Although most Nazi gassings were supposedly done with Diesel exhaust, that
claim is simply absurd because of the extraordinary difficulties involved.  It
is nonetheless an important claim because in terms of numbers of people
allegedly murdered and in terms of the number of locations,  it is actually far
more important than the Zyklon-B or cyanide gassing claims.  For a thorough
explanation please read my essays on the CODOH website  (http:\\www.codoh.com).
 The more recent German text of mine on the Diesel Gas Chambers is actually
better than the English version thanks in part to some of the help I received
>from  brilliant young German revisionists--some hope for the future of the
world.

But Danny Keren, arch-holocaust hatemonger with his own holocaust information
website, is convinced that I am wrong.  Moreover he thinks it is actually quite
"easy" to "tune" a Diesel so that it produces 6% CO--with liquid fuels.  Yes
that's right,  according to Danny Boy it's actually "easy."  Now I have
challenged him to explain just how easily it is done.  No vague references from
the technical literature are acceptable.  He must explain on the basis of
simple nuts, bolts and screws in such a way that someone with auto mechanic
skills can actually do it.  Does anybody out there in cyberworld think he can
actually do it?  I don't.

In the Brit. Journal of industrial medicine, 1957, vol 14 there is an excellent
report on the work of five British experts who tried to kill eight separate
batch of animals with Diesel exhaust.  The report which is invaluable reading
is entitled: "The toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel engine under four different
running conditions."  It is the only analysis of Diesel toxicity anywhere in
the technical or medical  literature that is actually based on lethal tests on
animals. The most lethal test was D1 with a maximum CO concentration of only
0.22%.  That was the highest CO concentration those experts were able to
achieve.  

After one hour, although 17 out 20 mice had died, nonetheless all of the
rabbits and guines pigs survived.  And yet the Nazis supposedly did it all in
less than half an hour with Jews.

Now folks, Danny Boy has insisted on other postings that it is really quite
easy to do. He has never yet actually explained the great secret to the Diesel
extermination mystery, but perhaps, if we all pat him on the back and make nice
to him he will oblige us with an explanation that people can understand. 
Perhaps he will follow with an all enlightening message.

Lots of Luck!

FP Berg

  
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:49 EDT 1998
Article: 178342 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
Lines: 67
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Dear Mike Curtis, 

Please do try to answer my simple challenge with some kind of explanation as to
how those monstrously amazing Diesel gas chambers actually worked. Anecdotes
are a dime a dozen.  If we let ourselves by guided entirely by vague anecdotes
and vague "eyewitness accounts," we might as well believe all the UFO stories. 

The holocaust is supposedly the most thoroughly documented event in history and
yet my simple challenge has completely stumped all of you.  The explanation is
that people like you have absolutely no idea as to what you are talking about. 
You have helped concoct a patchwork of technically absurd lies and you have
been caught..  

Sure, I use technical literature all the time but I do it honestly and I
understand the literature thoroughly before I use it.  You at best take a few
words here or there completely out of context and make wild and totally false
assertions without even understanding the basics.  6% CO easily from Diesel
exhaust is pure bull.  That is why Pattle and  four other real experts got only
a maximum of 0.22% for their experiments.  If they had used a Diesel engine a
hundred times larger it would have made no significant difference at all.

As to the extremely brief and vague (only a few words) statement attributed to
Eichmann about witnessing a gassing in a truck, I think he was simply trying to
ingratiate himself with his captors. I am not a psychiatrist nor will I try to
be--but people do lie for all kinds of reasons.  One can see that right here in
this newsgroup.  Eugene Holman, for example, simply lied his head off yesterday
by claiming "suicides" with Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles were "common" in
Finland.  That never happened ever with Diesel veh icles.  Today it is even
more difficult than it used to be because all German diesels for at least the
last five years have also been equipped with catalytic converters in order to
lower nitrogen oxide emissions. CO levels in Diesels  have always been far
below 1% which is generally the automotive standard for automobiles.  Catalytic
converters also reduce the CO levels even lower than before.

 Why did Holman lie like that?  I don't really know-- but I am sure it had
something to do with trying to make himself seem important and useful and
knowledgable.

Historical claims often fall apart because of the details.  That is not new at
all.  The Diesel holocaust claims fall apart because they make no technical
sense at all.

My work has never even been touched by any kind of serious refutation.  Michael
Stein may be a pal of yours--on technical subjects he is also hopeless.  In any
event, please try to answer my challenge or any of the other questions I have
asked in the last two days.  

Where do Holtz and Elliot say, for example, that it is easy to tune a Diesel to
get 6% CO?  What are their actual words?  That shoudn't be too hard to give if
you are going to use them as a source.  Surely Pattle and the other four
experts would have been extremely delighted to find such a piece of text. 
Pattle et al in the second paragraph of their essay actually give praise to
Holtz and Elliott--so they must have read their work and yet, they got only a
maximum of 0.22% CO which is pretty tame stuff.  Even cigarette smoke
frequently contains more than 1% CO--I can't give a source at the moment but I
think that is correct.

Anyway, my challenge continues to stand unanswered as I knew it would.

FP Berg






alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:49 EDT 1998
Article: 178343 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Becker Explains the Process of Gassing to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff
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Dear Danny Boy,

Please tell me something so simple that even you should be able to answer. 
Were the engines in Becker's vans Diesel engines or gasoline engines?

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:50 EDT 1998
Article: 178355 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 29
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Dear Mr. Holman,
 
I have already called you a scurrilous liar because that is exactly what you
are--I will continue to repeat that fact until you crawl under a rock where you
belong.

You invented your little tale of Mercedes Diesel suicides out of whole cloth. 
You never found or heard of even one such case.  All Mercedes diesels for at
least the last five years have catalytic converters which reduce CO levels even
below the  low levels which they already had years ago without catalytic
converters.

Gasoline engines are the way to go if you want to commit suicide but you must
still disconnect the catalytic converter or else the agony will be totally
different from the relatively peaceful death of years ago--that's one reason
why suicides with gasoline engines have actually became quite rare in this
country--and probably also in Finland, even with gasoline engines.

But here's a question for you.  You wrote:"You only need a concentration of
0.04% CO for it to be lethal".  What makes you think so?  The fact is that such
a conentration (400 ppm) will give nothing more than a headache after many
hours of continuous exposure.  Any number of toxicology handbooks will tell you
that--even in Finland.  Read also my: "Diesel Gas Chambers: Myth within a Myth"
on the CODOH website (http:\\www.codoh.com).

Stop telling lies Holman--you only make it worse for yourself.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:50 EDT 1998
Article: 178362 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
Lines: 23
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Dear Mark Van Alstine,

I have been inside that supposed gaschamber at Mauthausen twice and it is so
crude and stupid that one hardly ever even hears about it in the holocaust
literature--it is an embarassment even to you people.

But do try to answer my question.  How do you tell simply by looking through a
peephole that the people on the other side are dead?  Doctors usually need
things like stethoscopes or did the Nazis have some mysterious advanced medical
technology that you should tell us about? 

The fact is that Zyklon-B granules release cyanide slowly.  The keyword here is
"slowly."  Get it--"s l o w l y " or "gradually."  Exactly how slowly is known
precisely because the DEGESCH company made it that way so that it could be
handled safely for fumigating things like ships in New York harbour or barracks
in the US Army.  Please do read my essay: "Zyklon B and the German Delousing
Chambers" on the CODOH website and learn  some of the basics of Zyklon-B.  Or
better read any number of US Public Health Reports from the 1930's which
describe Zyklon in detail.  Dumping it on the heads of people doesn't work very
well.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:51 EDT 1998
Article: 178417 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Leidig Testifies About a Gassing in Sachsenhausen
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Dear Danny Boy,

Simple question that you should be able to answer.  Was the engine of the
deadly truck in your Sachsenhausen anecdote a Diesel engine or a gasoline
engine?

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:51 EDT 1998
Article: 178418 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Reports About Gassings in White Ruthenia
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Daer Danny Boy,

What do you suppose the "S" in "S-vans" stood for?

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:52 EDT 1998
Article: 178419 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer Testifies About Mass Murder in Sobibor
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Dear Danny Boy,  

The motor that  was "switched on" by Gotringer, was that a Diesel motor or a
gasoline motor?  The story sounds a little vague to me--besides how do you
"switch" a motor on if its not an electric motor.  Maybe elctric motors give
off CO also.  

Anyway, it all sounds terribly vague like something a person might say in a
hurry to keep from getting shot or to get a bite to eat  from sadistic captors.
 Please explain.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Tue May 26 20:49:52 EDT 1998
Article: 178426 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
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Dear Sara, 

Even if one believes in the Holocaust hoax as fervently as you and many others,
there are all kinds of reasons why one should know just  how those terrible
murders were committed with Diesel engines.  More than two million Jews and
countless others were supposedly murdered with Diesels and it could happen
again.  Surely such monstrous weapons of mass destruction should be the subject
of the most careful study.

Last I heard, Saddam Hussein is still allowed to use Diesel trucks all over his
country.  They could pose a threat to poor little Israel.  Is this unimportant?
Surely the Israelis must examine any Palestinian trucks with extra care if they
are Diesel trucks--and yet they don't seem to care. Even in America children
might get a hold of some Diesel truck and mass murder their school chums.  Is
this unimportant?

In any event, someone please try to answer my challenge to Danny Boy to explain
just how one can easily get 6% CO from a Diesel engine with liquid fuel.  Danny
Boy himself  is astonishingly quiet on this one even though he is posting all
kinds of other nonsense at this very moment.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri May 29 11:56:20 EDT 1998
Article: 178487 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation of bodies in mass graves: A Case History
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Dear Danny Boy, I missed you.

You have been a bad little boy to ignore my 6% challenge--and you are now even
showing such bad temper.  My oh mye, vhat is diz noozgruppe kumming too?

Now for the serious stuff.  You may have heard about a report from the CIA
entitled: "The Holocaust Revisited" by Brugioni and Poirier and dated February
1979.  On page 11 everyone can read the following sentence:
"Although survivors recalled that smoke and flame emanated continually from the
crematoria chimneys and was visible for miles, the photography we examined gave
no positive proof of this." 
In other words, they found no smoke or flame at all.

As to the May photograph which you were nice enough to identify, it is not even
 mentioned in the CIA report written by two of the most highly regarded aerial
recon experts in the world.  That smoke in that photo was only found much
later.  Obviously it was a very small fire indeed.  Just how many bodies do you
think the fiendish nazis  might have been burning in such a small fire? Hhm -- 
Danny Boy-- thousands perhaps or maybe only a few dozen or maybe only a pile of
leaves afterall.

FP Berg


alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri May 29 11:56:21 EDT 1998
Article: 178705 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 32
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Dear John Morris, 

Thanks for your questions but I can only answer them briefly now.  I had
nothing to do with the research for Pat Buchanan's story in the Washington
Post.  He actually went farther than I have ever gone  by actually claiming
that death from diesel exhaust was "impossible."  

Please read my essay about the Pat Buchanan controversy on the CODOH
website--http://www.codoh.com.  I have never ever claimed that Diesel exhaust
is "harmless."  I have claimed, however, and again and again that it is
"relatively harmless"  compared to any number of other common sources of
pollution such as gasoline engine exhaust.  As to mass murder with Diesel
exhaust it is certainly possible but only by going to the extraordinary lengths
of imposing heavy artificial loads on the engine.  I have never claimed it is
"impossible"-- but it is "absurd."

Diesels do contain other toxic gases besides CO -- primarily nitrogen oxides. 
All of the possible short term effects have been covered by Pattle et al in
their essay in the British  Journal of industrial medicine, 1957, vol 14 and
entitled "The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel engine under four different
running condtions."

I do not know offhand what the color of nitrous oxide victims is.
Pattle does go into the effects in detail however but I do not have more time
now.

FP Berg




alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri May 29 11:56:21 EDT 1998
Article: 178745 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 92
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Dear Mr. Holman,

Please do present and support your views about Diesel suicides if you think you
have some evidence or support somewhere.  You haven't done so yet.  I tried to
log on to the internet address you gave and got a message saying there was a
technical problem.
You and I know perfectly well that you invented that story of yours about
Mercedes Benz diesel suicides in Finland out of whole cloth.   In other words,
you told a really big lie and now you think you can bluff and wise-talk your
way out of it.  I won't let you.  Either  you apologize or I will kick your ass
to hell where you belong.  The issues we are involved with are far too
serious--the condemnation of an entire nation for a crime which never occurred,
as serious as that is by itself , is only part of what is at stake. 

Where do I get that report from Australia?  Do Australian automobiles all have
catalytic converters?

If you read my paper and thought about it, how could you possibly have been so
foolish as to suggest that 0.04%CO (only 400ppm) could easily kill in a garage
or anywhere else?

The letter from Becker to Rauff is well-known to me and is part of file PS-501
>from  the Nuremberg documents.  It is also a forgery.  More  than likely, it is
a Soviet forgery.  It is the only wartime German document anywhere that
actually describes a gassing and is for that reason extremely important--but it
is as I already said a forgery.  All of the other so-called documentary
materials are either "confessions" or "postwar statements" made, let us be
charitable for the moment, under some stress.

The proof of forgery is too complex to give here except for some clues.  I
suggest you try to read Ingrid Weckert's analysis in Grundlagen zur
Zeitgeschichte.  There are for one thing, three versions of this document.  The
only actual pages that are supposed to be genuine are not the pages that Rauff
received in Berlin, he was supposedly the recipient--but rather the carbon
copies that Becker supposedly  kept in his files in Russia.  Nonetheless, those
carbon copies are extensively marked as if the carbon had been received by
Rauff in Berlin.

>From  the technical side of the question which is my specialty, if the  motor of
the Saurer wagon was a Diesel as most Saurer's were--then, the story is totally
impossible because the exhaust arrangement with the vehicle parked  would have
meant that the Diesel engine was only  idling or fast idling.  Diesel exhaust
>from  any idling Diesel  may smell and look bad--but is practically 
harmless.  That is a simple fact of reality which I learned already 20 years
ago after I complained about the exhaust from 100's of Diesel buses inside the
bus terminal in New York City where I had  long waits on the hottest days--also
in the LincolnTunnel.  The eye irritation was often quite unbearable but
otherwise harmless.  As the buses  or Diesel locomotives (just as you described
in an earlier posting)  accelerate from a standing position, the fuel/air
ratios and CO levels do increase significantly-- but, at that point the
vehicles are also moving away from any people likely to be effected. The
minimal adverse effects are only temporary.

If, on the other hand, the Becker gas vans were gasoline driven, then the
murder arrangement could certainly have worked.  The Soviets had, however,
already shown their obsession with the Diesel story in two massive show trials
in Krasnodar and Kharkov in 1943--where amazingly enough they specifically and
repeatedly singled out Saurer diesels--not just motors or engines, but Diesels.
  Saurer diesels were on the basis of tests made with VW TDI diesels
today--almost certainly, the least toxic diesels anywhere in the world at that
time.  That is all the clues I can give here unfortunately.  Read more!

Diesels are routinely used in all non-nuclear submarines which are indeed
tightly closed spaces.  Many accounts of submarine adventures tell of the agony
of the crews when submerged for long periods of time from the smell--but no
deaths from asphyxiation.  The same applies to Diesel tanks.  Leaky exhaust
systems are common enough and allow exhaust to enter through floorboards or
sidepanels but hundreds of thousands of Diesel truckers keep their engines
running almost around the clock while they sleep many hours inside.  Surely, if
even the smallest portion of those truckers experienced any injury--the lawyers
would have a wonderful business, but they don't.

The descriptions of the Diesel gaschambers structurally are even more vague
than the descriptions of the toxic gas arrangement.  According to Gerstein and
the brief literature, the strtctures were flimsy, tar paper covered shacks
with, according to Gerstein, wooden doors with windows--not at all like common
bombshelters used throughout  German occupied Europe which did commonly use
steel, gas-tight doors with peepholes.

My arguments and those of the ever- growing number of revisionists stand head
and shoulders above those of people like you.  That is why the true hatemongers
are ever more desparate and try to  imprison us--as they already do in Germany.

FP Berg







alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri May 29 11:56:22 EDT 1998
Article: 178747 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers? (Yeah Right)
Lines: 29
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Dear Readers,

Rudolf Hess committed the greatest Christ-like act of this century. With his
lone flight to Britain he tried to end the war with Britain.  
Nazi Germany and Hitler had been trying since the  very beginning of the war in
1939, to end all hostilities with Britain.  All of their attempts had been
rebuffed as mere propaganda or as foolish attempts to weaken the resolve of
Britain in some way or other.

Hess proved with his own physical presence on British soil, with his own flesh
and blood quite literally just as Christ did with his flesh and blood, that
Germany was totally sincere about wanting peace with its greatest enemy at that
time, namely Britain.  Was there ever a hand extended in friendship and peace
more convincingly than that of Rudolf Hess?  There never was.  Perhaps Hess was
indeed mad to believe that Germany's enemies in Britain  had any smidgeon of
decency left in them.  I am sure he knew the risk-- but he risked all anyway to
try to make peace. 

John Costello insists in--Ten Days to Destiny-- that Hitler was part of Hess's
project also. 

For his efforts, Hess was thanked with life imprisonment--most of it in
solitary confinement.  He was probably murdered in the end also--by his
thankless captors.  Has anyone ever been more deserving of Nobel Peace Prize? 
The answer is:  no one has ever been more deserving of not only the Nobel Peace
Prize but also the highest praise and admiration from everyone.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Fri May 29 11:56:22 EDT 1998
Article: 178973 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
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Dear Danny Boy,

You are simply rewriting your earlier versions of the same mush without
answering my challenge.  Explain how one "tunes" a Diesel to "easily" (your
words) get 6% CO out of the engine.  

You made those bold assertions--so, you should be able to explain how to do it.
 It is becoming more and more obvious that you and your henchmen haven't a clue
as to how one actually does that.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:12 EDT 1998
Article: 179124 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: VW revives Nazi gas van technology with its TDI Diesels
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Dear Danny Boy,

Although Fred Leuchter probably did mistakenly claim it was "impossible" to
kill people with Diesel exhaust, I am totally unaware of any claims like that
>from  Germar Rudolf or Walter Lueftl.  Please enlighten me as to whereRudolf and
Lueftl ever made such a claim.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:12 EDT 1998
Article: 179141 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Danny Keren's 6% CO Diesel Exhaust
Lines: 86
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Dear hoaxsters,

The reason you folks can't answer my simple 6% challenge is because you simply
haven't got the foggiest idea as to what you are talking about.  That you have
proven.  The answer to the great 6% riddle is, however, clearly spelled out  in
my 1984 article  and not so clearly, unfortunately, in the many technical
articles on Diesels, including those by Holtz & Elliott since the authors
assumed some general knowledge that you folks simply do not have.  They were
not writing for school children or holocaust hoaxsters.

I have never ever claimed that it is "impossible" to kill with Diesels--but as
a source of CO and other poisons for mass murder it is "absurd."  It never
happened outside of the Holocaust story--can we agree on that?  So why be so
eager to believe it happened in WW2 just because some people raise their right
hands and swear they saw it happen? The testimony that people have sworn to
regarding these claims are at least contradictory--Eichmann claims a submarine
Diesel, someone else says it was a T-34 Diesel, Pfannenstiel after the war says
it was a 6 cylinder inline Diesel etc, etc. Physical evidence is totally
lacking--there are no corpses of CO victims from the alleged Diesel gas
chambers, no engines, no drawings or plans, not even structures.  Tens of
thousands of people were burned alive at the stake not too long ago on the
basis of the very same kinds of sworn testimony and confessions.  Have lawyers
and historians evolved in 200 years?  

The same kinds of evidence were relied upon in that big show trial flop in
Israel against John Demjanjuk.  Four witnesses swore to everything imaginable
in order to convict Demjanjuk.  In the end, even the Israeli court conceded
that the witnesses could not be believed.

What has changed is science and technology, and our ability to communicate
information.  DNA testing in rape cases began a few years ago in Britain by
overturning the conviction of a man who had actually confessed to murder and
rape.  There are apparently many such cases which are now being overturned--
because the scientific evidence is so overwhelming against an earlier form of
conclusive courtroom evidence.

If Mr. Scott or Mr. McKinney, had once been persuaded by the Nizkor
presentations that I was wrong, then that merely underlines the fact that even
sceptical people can be taken-in by what appears to be real evidence. I used to
believe in the Holocaust story myself--and even became furious at some people
as recently as 1974 who had insisted otherwise.

I am quite certain-- without having read everything in technical literature,
but more than enough-- that neither Holtz & Elliott nor any other
qualifiedDiesel expert ever claimed that generating even 1/2% CO from Diesel is
"easy" except--and here is the answer to the riddle--when the fuel burned is
gas rather than liquid.  Gaseous fuels in Diesel engines burn wihout producing
significant amounts of solid soot.  As fuel/air ratios are increased, liquid
fuels do produce solid soot and eventually limit the fuel/air ratio at which
Diesels can operate without self-destructing.   The rate of build-up of soot
increases enormously just beyond a fuel/air ratio known as the smoke
limit--usually around 0.055.  That fuel/air ratio varies somewhat with engine
design--but not by very much.   6% CO in Diesel exhaust is certainly achievable
with gaseous fuel, even "easy"-- but not with liquid fuels.

There was a time not too long before the 1940 Holtz & Elliott essay when
engineers still do not know the true relationship between emission levels and
engine performance.  Was the CO emission level a function of engine speed, or
type of fuel, or cylinder height- width ratio, or load ratio or whatever? 
Eventually it was universally recognized that the important factor was fuel/air
ratio.   Whether the fuel was liquid or gas,  the data points would all, more
or less, follow the same, continuous, identical line on the charts.  If you
were willing to ignore engine smoking, you could even get 6% CO from liquid
fuels at the same fuel/air ratio as with gas--but, but , but only by ignoring
smoking. The smoke is not merely an esthetic factor--it causes rapid buildup of
solids inside the cylinders and valve seats and destroys the engines.  Read my
essay.

Some of those early graphs correlating fuel/air ratio to CO emissions have
appeared again and again in the literature--they are like very old friends who
were once critical in the war against ignorance and bad engineering.  You keep
them around because they are still useful at times to review the general
subject matter and guide those who are coming along to begin making their
contribution--but to use them the way the Nizkorites have is just plain stupid
and inexcusable.

In the same way that operating a liquid fueled Diesel far beyond its smoke
limit is "possible" but, nonetheless "absurd," using Diesel engines to commit
mass murder is also possible but absurd.  Without really strong evidence that
someone actually did, it should be regarded as totally cookoo.  Confessions and
sworn statements ain't good enough.

FP Berg


alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:13 EDT 1998
Article: 179151 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 42
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Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179151

Dear Richard Schultz, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel

So many of the recent messages are too, too silly for me to answer  any more,
but your appearance adds some class to this discussion--maybe?  Time will tell.

So here's my challenge to you:  Explain to us how one gets a Diesel engine to
yield even as much as 1% CO in the exhaust with liquid fuels.   We can forget
about achieving that "easily" for now--even the Nizkorites are ready to throw
in the towel on that absurdity.

Pattle and four other experts were only able to get a maximum of 0.22% from
their Diesel. 

You should also contact the supreme court of Israel and ask them how it was
done.  They were out to educate the whole world, not just convict a murderer,
with their showtrial against the man who supposedly murdered 800,000 Jews with
Diesel exhaust.
They provided no forensic or technical or scientific evidence or explanation
for the accusations at all--merely the assertion which was, of course, enough
for their purposes-- a big show.

You are wrong about the importance of CO2 as Pattle et al show.  Their
experiments on live animals performed for as long as five hours in 8 separate
tests took all those possible combined effects into account.

Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair and Edginton--"the Toxicity of Fumes from a
Diesel engine under four different running conditions,"  --- Brit. Journ. of
industrial medicine, 1957, volume 14, pages 47 through 55.  Available also from
CODOH for $2.00 shipping included.  CODOH, PO Box 439016/P-111,  San Diego, CA
92134  USA 

 Also try to get my essay, available from CODOH for $5.00--"The Diesel Gas
Chambers; Myth within a Myth."  If you can read German, perhaps you are German,
the best reference of all is: Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte--Grabert Verlag
(415 pages) and available from CODOH for $60.oo, US shipping by air  included
(even to Israel).  All available copies at the publisher were confiscated by
the current pseudo-German government and even the printing plates were
destroyed--but through the miracles of modern communications even more copies
are appearing as if by magic.  Lucky you.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:13 EDT 1998
Article: 179152 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
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Well now, Mr. Mock,

Could you possibly be just a little bit more specific or is that beneath you? 
"Auschwitz: 1270 to the present" is such a big book.  Couldn't you give us a
page number or a quote or something?

Better yet, point us to an actual report or forensic analysis by qualified
experts--dont just smear Lueftl for telling the truth.  Show he's wrong by
producing or at least identifying the expert report.  Of course, you wont do
that because you can't. 

FP Berg

 
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:14 EDT 1998
Article: 179161 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <1998053019351300.PAA23916@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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Dear Mr. Holman,

Having been an environmental specialist for the Port Authority of NY for four
years, I know all too well how government agencies love to err on the side of
caution in setting standards and criteria.  If one person in a million dies
>from  CO while going through the Lincoln Tunnel, that is a disaster for the PA
and a field day for the lawyers.  But, but, but-- to use the same CO level in a
gaschamber for committing mass murder is too laughable.  Any realistic
gaschamber must be designed to kill "all" in a reasonable time period--not just
some or one in a hundred thousand, or one in a million.  What would one do with
all the survivors?  Send them back in for a second or third dosage?  Or send
them to their barracks where they can tell everyone of their terrible ordeal?

Pattle et al showed on the basis of lethal tests just how unrealistic even 0.22
% CO is and with all the other ingredients (NOxs as well) thrown in as well.  

By the way, when you give a source, please give the actual source and not just
a website address.  

By the way also, I am still waiting for you to document someway or other--a
news story might do--your earlier insistence that Diesel suicides were and
still are "common" in Finland.  Without ever having read anything from Finland,
I know you simply lied your head off with that tale.  Prove you are not a
scurrilous  liar before accusing people of mass murder.  Better yet, sue me for
defamation--and then you can also explain in court about those diesel suicides
that you know so much about.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:15 EDT 1998
Article: 179306 of alt.revisionism
Path: trends.ca!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers? (Yeah Right)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <1998053113123300.JAA09148@ladder03.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 31 May 1998 13:12:33 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
References: <357482ef.5808739@news3.ibm.net>
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179306

Dear Hoaxsters,

Rudolf Hess was indeed lucky to not be hung at Nuremberg.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:16 EDT 1998
Article: 179319 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <1998053114172400.KAA13864@ladder03.news.aol.com>
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Date: 31 May 1998 14:17:23 GMT
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References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179319

Dear Hoaxsters,

The original source for the quote that D. Keren has given is almost certainly
the essay which Gerhard Peters wrote in 1933 for Sammlung chemischer und
chemisch-technischer Vortraege, Neue Folge--Heft 20, see page 64.  Offhand, I
am not aware of any books that Peters actually wrote--only many articles which
were widely published long before the war and throughout the war.  He was an
ardent promoter and true believer in the human life-saving properties of
Zyklon-B.

The translation that Keren offered is essentially correct.  Keren is not lying
or even distorting the text.  However, he is is simply wrong in asserting that
this passage somehow supports the mass murder with Zyklon-B stories; it does
just the opposite.  Although the German words "Heftigkeit" and "rapider" appear
in the first and second sentences respectively  of the German text, the
subsequent sentences clearly show that this is not at all the "rapid"  process
hoaxsters need to support their claims.  Read my essay: "Zyklon-B and the
German Delousing Chambers" on the CODOH website--http://www.codoh.com.--where
that passage and many more with actual dispersion charts from DEGESCH are
given.

FP Berg

alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:17 EDT 1998
Article: 179336 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <1998053117111600.NAA04490@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 31 May 1998 17:11:16 GMT
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References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179336

Dear Mr. Holman,

The credentials of Jovan Rajs and Bertil Holmberg sure do look impressive--but
I do not see or know where to find the article they wrote.  "Accompanying
posting" where?

FPBerg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:18 EDT 1998
Article: 179342 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <1998053115391800.LAA21188@ladder03.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 31 May 1998 15:39:18 GMT
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References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179342

Dear Eugene Holman,

Did you or did you not post the following on Mon, May25, 1998 -15:05EDT:
"One of the methods commonly used by wealthy stressed-out Finnish executives to
do themselves in is to attach a garden hose to the exhaust pipe of their
diesel-driven automobiles--typically Mercedes Benz--and lead the other end of
the hose in to the passenger compartment through the barely opened backwindow
of the car.   The engine is turned on idling, and the person committing suicide
then sits in the car with all the other windows closed and downs a few shots of
whiskey or a bottle of red wine.  If no one finds him within a half-hour, he's
a goner."

Did you or did you not write the following on Tuesday, May 26, 1998 03:05 EDT
also and in support of the above statement:
"It happens here about once a week."

I think you did write those words.  I have put no words in your mouth at all. 
You did it all by yourself.  Your tale is a pack of lies as you will prove
yourself by your total failure to find any news stories, past or future, or any
other evidence of even one such suicide-- an actual suicide with a diesel, not
just blah-blah.

To many readers it is obvious that Holman has simply lied his head off.  The
all- important question is: why did he do it?  Why does anyone lie like that? 
Holman seems from other postings to have some credible academic
credentials--Cornell University for example, and much more perhaps.  The war is
over for more than fifty years. Neither I nor anyone is holding a gun to his
head or threatening him or his family with starvation or harm if he doesn't
make such a false statement.  But he does it anyway.

Obviously,  people will lie for all kinds of reasons.  Usually, the skillful
liars have the good sense to lie in such a way that their lies cannot be
checked or validated.  But sometimes, even the most skillful lies are exposed
by aggressive pursuers of the truth-- even if many years must first elapse. 
The holocaust story is just such a pack of lies--no one was ever killed in any
Nazi gas chambers anywhere.  The Holocaust story is a hoax. 

FP Berg 
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:18 EDT 1998
Article: 179351 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers?
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <1998053117474900.NAA08297@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 31 May 1998 17:47:49 GMT
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References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179351

Dear Eugene Holman,

>From  your formatting, I cannot make out what these two Swedes are actually
claiming.  Are these handwritten notes from which you are quoting or what?  If
they would actually publish that stuff, they  would make fools of themselves.

You or the Swedes refer to Pattle et al and claim that in Pattle's experiments
the "animals die in all cases, no matter what the carbon monoxide content." 
That is totally false as anyone who actually reads the Pattle essay  can easily
see.

On page 50 of Pattle there is Table 1 which summarizes the results of the eight
experiments.  See also the explanatory text on page 52-- column left.   For
experiments A1 and A2 after five hours of continuous exposure in a gaschamber
that was thoroughly purged of any fresh air, only pure Diesel exhaust filled
the chamber--all 40 mice, 10 guinea-pigs, and 4 rabbits were ALIVE.    In other
words, after five hours in a gaschamber totally filled with exhaust from a
diesel running at idle,  all were ALIVE.  Obviously, the quoted statement in
the previous paragraph is totally false.  Take those Swedes to some remedial
reading courses and join them yourself.

Is this getting too complicated for you?  I think it is.  You obviously have
trouble reading ordinary English--and your credentials in languages don't seem
to help much, no how!

FP Berg


alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:19 EDT 1998
Article: 179353 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter on Diesel
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <1998053117530800.NAA08911@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
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Date: 31 May 1998 17:53:08 GMT
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References: <1998053113095500.JAA13080@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179353

Dear truth451,

If I erred, in this case I hope I did, I apologize to Fred Leuchter.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:19 EDT 1998
Article: 179387 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For the Dachau Dummys
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <1998053121194500.RAA00946@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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Date: 31 May 1998 21:19:45 GMT
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References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179387

Dear Hoaxsters,

The Dachau gas chamber hoax is one which revisionists don't usually bother with
anymore because it has generally been abandoned except by the most ardent
exterminationist cookoos--they are still out there in never-never land.  The
sign in the supposed gas chamber at Dachau says in five languages--and still
today I believe:  "THE GAS CHAMBER--disguised as a 'shower room'--never used as
a gas chamber."  Which part of that is hard to understand?

The fact is that this room was not only never used as a gas chamb er--it was
never designed as a gas chamber, and it does not even look like a gas chamber. 
It has none of the essential equipment that the Germans and everyone in the
world uses in real gaschambers. 

At the end of the very same crematoria building, there are four ten-cubic meter
DEGESCH delousing gas chambers that routinely used Zyklon-B to fumigate
clothing and thereby kept people alive.  As far as all important features and
equipment are concerned, those chambers had everything that American
gaschambers have for executing prisoners except for 1) a glass window to allow
witnesses to see what was going on inside, and 2)a chair or chairs with
restraints to keep the executees from destroying internally exposed equipment.

The equipment which the delousing chambers had in common with American
gaschambers are:
1) equipment to generate the cyanide gas--DEGESCH did it in all of its standard
gaschambers by blowing warm air through the Zyklon-B granules held in a mesh
basket. 
2) a circulation blower and ductwork to circulate and disperse the poison gas
throughout the chamber
3) a heater -- usually hot water or steam-driven to keep the temperature warm
enough to prevent cyanide from condensing on the walls
4) ductwork to force fresh air through the chamber to remove all traces of the
poison gas before the doors were opened
5) and some kind of separation from adjacent areas where people were doing
other ordinary activities like washing laundry. 


The four DEGESCH chambers were superbly designed--sold throughout the
world--and  thoroughly described in the German technical literature again and
again.  See my essay: "Zyklon-B and the German Delousing Chambers" on the CODOH
website.  (http://www.codoh.com)

By contrast, for the alleged homicidal gas chamber at Dachau-- there is no
drawing nor even access for the area directly behind the chamber walls to show
the presence or absence of any of the essential piping, ductwork and blower or
gas generating equipment.  There is not even a hole in the ceiling through
which, according to the Auschwitz hoax, the "gas granules" might have been
dumped onto the heads of the victims.  In other words, it is not even a crude
gas chamber.  It is an obvious hoax instead.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism


From dieselzykl@aol.com Mon Jun  1 10:45:20 EDT 1998
Article: 179403 of alt.revisionism
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From: dieselzykl@aol.com (Dieselzykl)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassing at Dachau
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <1998053121362600.RAA02688@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 31 May 1998 21:36:26 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
References: 
Xref: trends.ca alt.revisionism:179403

Dear Mr. Green,

Please give me more info about the "paper by Irmscher."  Source please?

Does he or anyone else seriously dispute the evaporation rates given long
before the war by DEGESCH, Peters and many other professional pest control
specialists?

As to refuting things which no one ever claimed, Danny Keren does it all the
time.

FP Berg
alt.revisionism

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