Path: news.voyager.net!clmx12.dial.voyager.net!user
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Brave Sir Winston! (was Re: Nizkor afraid of debate?)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:19:12 -0500
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Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Winston!

nswpp@earthlink.net (Harold Covington aka "Winston Smith") wrote to
revisionism@c2.net, on January 25th, 1997:

>                         COCKROACH INFESTATION
>
>       It appears as if the Nizkor cockroaches have indeed targeted
>these two Revisionist automatic listservs, and fairly soon they
>will deteriorate into Nizkor playgroups which are nothing more
>than public forums for these people to scream abuse and insults
>and threats at anyone who dares to oppose the Chosen People.
>
>       This will accordingly be my last post to either list. I have
>explained to Nizkor the conditions under which I am willing to
>debate them and that does not include hijacking other people's
>forums or anything in the Usenet format which allows them to bring
>Willard and his army of rodents along.
>
>       My best wishes to Ralph Johnson, Chuck, and all the others who
>have made these lists so interesting and valuable in the past.
>
>                                                  88!
>                                                  Winston Smith

The cockroaches in question are Rich Green and Annie Alpert.  Here are
samples from those cockroaches, with their screaming abuse:

   "My name is Rich and I just recently joined this list.  I'm
   interested in revisionism and open debate on the Holocaust.  Does
   this list engage in open debate on the Holocaust or did I join the
   wrong list."
   
   "The report you mention quotes the _Protocols of Zion_.  I've
   heard that this document is a forgery.  Is that true."
   
   "Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison?  What is it and
   what was it used for?"
   
   "Now that sounds like a good place to start!  Can you give me some
   specific references to the Bible and the Talmud?"
   
   "Can you tell me, Joe, at what concentration this material becomes
   explosive?  Also, at what concentration was it used?  It seems
   like we can figure out whether these claims the Jews made, make
   any sense."
   
   "I'm sorry to belabor this point then.  Let's move back to the
   main topic."

Here are some sample insults:

   "I happen to have done a little research into the background of
   the document known as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I
   understand you don't think it matters if they are a forgery or
   not, but I think it does matter--since an argument based on a lie
   isn't worth very much, IMO."
   
   "In answer to your questions, here are osme facts about Zyklon-B."
   
   "Is this group about revisionism really?  I'd like to start
   debating the holocaust."
   
   "I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn't
   as big an issue as you  may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at
   Auschwitz were not cremated."
   
   "Sorry, Mr. Anonymous--no Khazars in MY family tree.  We're a
   bunch of midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and
   Austria.  Perhaps you have me confused with someone or something
   else?"
   
   "Actually, I am a graduate student in chemistry.  HCN is a very
   dangerous and fast acting poison.  It binds to Cytochrome-C and
   prevents respiration at the cellular level."

Here are some sample threats:

   "I don't understand. Are these numbers wrong."
   
   "So it seems that Winston believes that the methods said to have
   been used at Treblinka would have worked.  Does everyone on the
   list agree that diesel engines can kill?"
   
   "I'm just trying to understand your argument here.  Are you saying
   that no fuel was ever ordered?  If not, how much fuel do you claim
   was ordered and how much do you claim was necessary?"
   
   "Oh, I get it--you think I'm Jewish!  Sorry.  Not the case.  If
   you think about for a few minutes, I think you can figure out
   where you went wrong.  It's very simple really. "
   
   "Sorry, I don't have a scanner.  I'm sure you know that this book
   is available at a library, however.  So you might consider looking
   there."
   
   "That seems like 2000 pounds of coal per person.  That seems like
   an overestimate to me. Can you please clarify?"

And finally, when this "screaming abuse" became too much for the list
maintainers to bear, the "cockroaches" were simply dropped from the
list, or one of them anyway.  Rich Green even went on to ask,
innocently:

   "By the way, someone seems to have accidentally dropped me from
   this list. I'm sure that it was an accident as I've been assured
   by Joe that this list is about open debate on the Holocaust
   without fear of censorship. If I'm wrong and that's not the
   purpose of this list, please let me know."

The answer from the list maintainer was that he was "agitating" and
therefore unwelcome.  He was then given the contradictory instructions:
"Dropping you twice already from the list was therefore no accident.
Dont come back," and, in the same breath, "post information if you have
new evidence or you can proof or disproof some Revisionist material."

As should be obvious from the above, presenting "new evidence" and
attempting to "disproof some Revisionist material" is exactly what he
had been doing.

"Winston Smith"'s cowardice is especially noteworthy because he did
indeed participate in the debate, for a brief time.  His complaints
about his ground rules not being followed are therefore irrelevant.
He even _started_ the debate, with his "The Holocaust Is Bunk" post.
And at one point, he admitted that Rich Green had "a good point"
(about the discussion topic having been, until he and Ms. Alpert
arrived, anything _but_ revisionism).

Things were going swimmingly until "Winston" faced the first real
response to his position.

At that point, his ignorance of the subject became apparent quickly --
for example, he ridiculed the idea that diesel engines can't kill, when
that has been a staple of "revisionism" since 1983.  Faced with a
deficit of facts, his only choice was to flee.

So, tail tucked between his legs, flee he did!

If anyone wants the full record of what the cockroaches said, so they
can judge for themselves whether "Winston"'s excuse is valid, I've
archived it at:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/c/covington.harold/brave-sir-winston

Posted;  emailed to Annie Alpert, Rich Green, and the "Artist Not
Formerly Known As Rich Green," aka Rich Graves.  Not emailed to
"Winston Smith" because I have nothing to say to him.
--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/







Subject: Re: And Now for ...."The Sixth Gender"
Sent: January 22, 1997, 8:40 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

I thought it was obvious that this "article" from the "Down Jones" news
agency was a clever satire--did you really beleive it was real? Check
out the name of the spokesman--"Roger Mortis" for instance.  Get it?
rigor mortis=Roger Mortis?  Come on -- lighten up, guys!




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 22, 1997, 10:54 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Hello all,

My name is Rich and I just recently joined this list.  I'm interested in
revisionism and open debate on the Holocaust.  Does this list engage in
open debate on the Holocaust or did I join the wrong list.

Also, I just read about Jewish ritual murder.  Do people believe that
this is true?

Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 2:14 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Rick,

Thanks for your reply.
     
     You can read about the many documented court convictions throughout
     history of ritual murder and make upyour own mind.  Arnold Leese
     wrote an extenisive defense arguing the reality of this horrendous 
     practice.  This can be read at:  http://www.melvig.org/jrm/jrm_toc.html

I guess that you do believe it from your reply.  Do others on this list
also believe it?  Can you refer me to independent confirmation?  Also, do
Jews still engage in this practice?  How come I never hear about it?         
The report you mention quotes the _Protocols of Zion_.  I've heard that
this document is a forgery.  Is that true.

     BTW, I think it is very relevant to Historical Revisionism because it 
     is a witness of the character of the accusers.  
     
Who are the accusers?  Anyway, I'm more interested in debate about the
evidence.  Is this the right list for that?

Best Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 4:02 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

     And Streicher run into problems with the Hitler regime as well. He had 
     enemies on both sides because Hitler (1/4 jewish himself) had many 
     Jews on his paylist and Management and Goverment. Even the company 
     who produced the Cyclon-B poison, IG-Farben, had an important Jew in 
     their management, a Warburg-Banker. 
     
Hi I'm sorry I don't know your name,

Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison?  What is it and what
was it used for?

Thanks,

Rich




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 4:05 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:
     
     	Although all Jews are aware of the blood rite and its importance 
     to the Jewish cult, only the most important Jewish leaders, the rabbis 
     and the wealthiest members of the Jewish community, are allowed to 
     participate in the blood-drinking rite. 
     
Hi Rick,

Is it really ture that all Jews are aware of this ritual?  I've asked
some people I know and they weren't aware of such a ritual.  Also, if
the police are aware of such event as you say, how come they don't
arrest people.

I must say this sounds very strange to me.  I really did join,
however, in order to learn the truth about the holocaust.  How come no
one wants to talk about that?

Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:37 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:


     And of course you must forget about the stories in the bible and the
     talmud and the book og esther because they  approve or speak of many
     such instances.  

Now that sounds like a good place to start!  Can you give me some specific
references to the Bible and the Talmud?  Also, since it's in the Bible,
does that mean that Jesus engaged in this ritual murder too?

Thanks,

Rich




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:42 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Hi,

I'm sorry I still don't know your name.

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

     
     Besides - strictly legally - the Protocols ARE TRUE. The only courtcase
     over it in switzerland the first court decided it was a forgery. Then 
     somebody. I think a man called Fleischmann or so, I am not sure of
     his name, produced some evidence and the revision at a second level
     court has suspened this first courts decision. 
     
So are you saying that they are true or that they are forgeries; I wasn't
quite clear.  Also, do I have to believe them to believe revisionism?
If I don't believe in a Jewish conspiracy, is there no way to prove the
case for revisionism?  I didn't realize that the case against the
holocaust necessitted such a thing.

Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

This sounds about as unreasonable as the hundreds of satanic abuse cases
that have sprung up in past years--according to the reports, tens of
thousands of infants have been sacrificed to satan by secret cults all
over the country. The claimants are nearly always young women with a
history of mental problems, too.  A good book on the subject is "Satanic
Panic: The Creation of a Contemporary Legend" (Open Court, Chicago, Il
1993) by Jeffrey S. Victor, a sociologist.  Skeptical Inquirer magazine
has done a number of articles on this subject (Spring 1994 and Fall 1994
come to hand)

We see similar statistics in the UFO abduction phenomena--tens of
thousands of people disappearing nightly with no trace. 

You don't really believe in that stuff, do you?




Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 6:44 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

     You really MUST be new on this list. Just call me joe anonym. Dont you
     know that in certain countries you can get livetime jail for posting 
     and saying things like that. And you have jewish informer on every list.

Hi Joe, I understand why you might be scared; so I'll call you Joe.

     Cyclon-B was and still is used for delousing cloth and
     material and it is deadly and very dangerous because of explosions.
     Jews have "remembered" and were eyewitnesses and haven drawn pictures
     with guards smoking and eating while removing corpses, standing in a
     blue fog. And next to it ovens where flames were shooting out of the
     chimneys.

Can you tell me, Joe, at what concentration this material becomes
explosive?  Also, at what concentration was it used?  It seems like we can
figure out whether these claims the Jews made, make any sense.

Thanks for the URL, I'll take a look.

Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 8:49 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:
     
         They are aware of it as the "blood libel" while denying it's 
     existence out of ignorance or dishonesty.  I doubt there is any 
     significant number of Jews who practice the ritual.  

So you're disagreeing with Rick.  Rick seemed to argue that they knew it
was true, whereas you're claiming that many of them don't know its true.
Am I understanding your dispute correctly?

     > I must say this sounds very strange to me.  I really did join,
     > however, in order to learn the truth about the holocaust.  How come no
     > one wants to talk about that?
     
         You must be very new to the list.  If you recall, you've kept the 
     subject alive by your questions after one single post on the subject.  
     The bulk of the mail has been about the "holocaust" (tm).   
     
Great!  I'm sorry to belabor this point then.  Let's move back to the main
topic.

Best Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 23, 1997, 8:44 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:
     
         If a history of mental illness is just cause to question a persons 
     testimony does this give us grounds to doubt every Jew since they are 
     afflicted with more nervous diseases and mental illness than any other 
     identifiable group?

Is that true?  Do you have statistics on this.
     
        Doesn't this say all there is to be said about your objectivity and 
     "reasonableness?"  If you want to deny the dozens of documented 
     convictions throughout the last several hundred years then why not 
     continue your doubting streak and doubt something even less documented - 
     the alleged extermination of 6 million Jews by the Nazis?  
     
Are there reaslly more documents on these convictions.  For instance,
let's just look at the IMT series.  Can you produce more documentation of
convictions for Ritual Murder than exist in the IMT series?

Thanks,

Rich




Subject: The Protocols 
Sent: January 23, 1997, 6:29 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:

> You must be new in this field.  Basically and principally, it does not make
> a deut of difference if the protocols are a forgery or not.  Every bit what has
> been written in it, has come true so far. So what need is there to discuss
> forgery or not.  If you want to know what the future looks like it, read
> the Protocols.
> 
> Besides - strictly legally - the Protocols ARE TRUE. The only courtcase
> over it in switzerland the first court decided it was a forgery. Then
> somebody. I think a man called Fleischmann or so, I am not sure of his name,
> produced some evidence and the revision at a second level court has suspened
> this first courts decision.

I happen to have done a little research into the background of the
document known as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I understand you
don't think it matters if they are a forgery or not, but I think it does
matter--since an argument based on a lie isn't worth very much, IMO.

  The 24 Protocols of the Elders of Zion are supposed to be the  minutes
of a meeting of Jews convened in the last years of  the 19th century. 
They contain incredible statements of a  plot by Jews to overthrow the
world. For instance:

"We shall create by all the secret subterranian methods open to us and
with the  aid of gold, which is all in our hands, a universal economic
crises whereby we shall throw upon the streets whole mobs of workers
simultaneously in all the countries   of Europe." (Third Protocol)
  
  Peter Graves, a London Times correspondent, demonstrated in   a series
of articles in 1921 that they are based on a small volume written by a
Paris Lawyer, Maurice Joly in 1864 entitled:  "Dialouge in Hell between
Machiavelli and Montesquieu: or  the Politics of Machiavelli in the
nineteenth century" to discredit the second empire of  Napolean III.
When you see the   two side-by-side, the deception becomes apparent.
There are over 175 passages in the Protocols that are taken   bodily
from Joly's novel.  Here are a couple:
  
  Joly, Brussels Edition 1864:
     "Like God Wishnu, my press will have one hundred
       arms, each hand of which will feel all shades of
       public opinion." (P 141)
  
  From Nilus' "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion":
     Like the Hindu God Wishnu, they will have one
       hundred hands, each one of which will feel the
       pulsation of some intellectual tendency." (p 43)
  
  Joly:
     "The political has nothing to do with the moral."
  (p19)
  
  Protocols:
     Has politics anything to do with morals?"

 They first appeared widely during the Civil war that followed the
Russian Revolution of 1917, used by Tsarists to discredit Bolsheviks. 
They were originally written by  a flunky in the Paris branch of the
Czarist Russian secret police Okrana in 1899 or 1901 on the pamphlet. 
When you see the   two side-by-side, the deception becomes apparent. 

The Protocols have been shown to be a base fraud, created for the
purpose of creating hatred against Jews and to divert the attention of 
exploited and frustrated people, away from their real oppressors, and
turn the wrath of the people against the   Jews. Thus, the Jews would
become the easy scapegoat.

Basically, they have been used by various people  as "proof" that there
is a  world-wide plot by people of the Jewish  persuasion to control
the  world through covert means.  Now, it's not nice to go around 
accusing people of things  like plotting to overthrow society as we 
know it.  A person doesn't make that type of accusation  with love in
his/her heart. Personally, I don't believe in world-wide
conspiracies--Too many people, places and things have to come together
at just the right time to make them work. Most people in this world
can't put together a decent surprise party, let alone plan world
domination without detection.

For more information, try "An Appraisal of the Protocols  of Zion", 
(John S. Curtiss, Columbia University Press, NY  1942) or "THE
HOAXERS-PLAIN LIARS, FANCY LIARS AND  DAMNED LIARS" by Morris Kominsky




Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 23, 1997, 9:08 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Winston Smith wrote:
     
             Secondly, the Jews deserve everything that has happened to them in
     the past and everything that is coming to them in the future, especially
     when the Palestinians get their state as a toehold and America finally runs
     out of money and the New Yahk-Tel Aviv lifeline collapses. I do not 
     question that innocent individuals of Jewish extraction have suffered 
     down through the ages for crimes which they as individuals did not 
     commit---but my people and all the peoples of the world have suffered 
     far more at the hands of the Chosen Ones.

What do you believe happened to them in the past.  If they deserved it,
why didn't the holocaust happen?  Also, you call yourself a National
Socialist.  Do you have to be a National Socialist to be a revisionist?
Are all the revisionists on this list National Socialists?  

     You might say we owe
     them a Holocaust. We've been paying their bill for fifty years, and at some
     point we're finally going to get what we've paid for.
     
So Winston seems to believe that there should be a holocaust.  Do others
agree with him?  Was there no holocaust only because the National
Socialists lost?

Regards,

Rich




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 8:00 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

[Sorry, I screwed up and sent this twice to BS.ORG but not to the list]
bs-org@c2.net wrote:

> At 17:56 1997-01-23 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >rs@enetis.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Jewish Ritual Murder
> >>
> >>         On May 1, 1989, the Oprah Winfrey show had as its guest a person
> >> who, as a young girl, was forced to participate in a ritual in which a
> >> Christian infant was sacrificed. The amazing thing about this guest is
> >> that she was not affiliated with some unknown radical blood letting cult,
> >> but that She was a Jew.

rest of article shortened
> >
> >This sounds about as unreasonable as the hundreds of satanic abuse cases
> >that have sprung up in past years--according to the reports, tens of
> >thousands of infants have been sacrificed to satan by secret cults all
> >over the country. The claimants are nearly always young women with a
> >history of mental problems, too.  A good book on the subject is "Satanic
> >Panic: The Creation of a Contemporary Legend" (Open Court, Chicago, Il
> >1993) by Jeffrey S. Victor, a sociologist.  Skeptical Inquirer magazine
> >has done a number of articles on this subject (Spring 1994 and Fall 1994
> >come to hand)
> >
> >We see similar statistics in the UFO abduction phenomena--tens of
> >thousands of people disappearing nightly with no trace.
> >
> >You don't really believe in that stuff, do you?
> 
> Why shouldnt we believe hundreds of certified ritual cases?
> 
> On the other hand, the Jews still want us to believe the 6-Mill swindle
> and the burning of bodies in pits full of water and... and  ...
> 
But you didn't cite 'hundreds of certified cases"--you said this one
girl showed up on the Oprah Winfrey show and said she'd been forced to
kill infants.  It fits the "false memory syndrome" pattern completely.

In any case, what does this have to do with Revisionism?




Subject: About Zyklon-B WAS: Der Stuermer
Sent: January 24, 1997, 8:09 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> 
> At 13:02 1997-01-23 -0800, Richard J. Green wrote:
> >On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >
> >     And Streicher run into problems with the Hitler regime as well. He had
> >     enemies on both sides because Hitler (1/4 jewish himself) had many
> >     Jews on his paylist and Management and Goverment. Even the company
> >     who produced the Cyclon-B poison, IG-Farben, had an important Jew in
> >     their management, a Warburg-Banker.
> >
> >Hi I'm sorry I don't know your name,
> 
> You really MUST be new on this list. Just call me joe anonym. Dont you
> know that in certain countries you can get livetime jail for posting
> and saying things like that. And you have jewish informer on every list.
> 
> >Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison?  What is it and what
> >was it used for?
> 
> You really should download these holocaust/cyclon-b files and read and study
> the Germar Rudolf papers, the Lachout papers, the Leuftl papers, the Leuchter
> papers and others. Cyclon-B  was and still is used for delousing cloth and
> material and it is deadly and very dangerous because of explosions. Jews have
> "remembered" and were eyewitnesses and haven drawn pictures with guards smoking
> and eating while removing corpses, standing in a blue fog. And next to it ovens
> where flames were shooting out of the chimneys.
> 
> But like I said, get the files and then check with us again.  A good place
> is to start at http://www.ostara.org/ where you can link to all revisionism
> pages
> and download tons of files
> 

In answer to your questions, here are osme facts about Zyklon-B.

Zyklon is the trade name of the Testa Company for hydrocyanic or prussic
acid (HCN). It is composed of one atom of each of the following:
hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen. Zyklon-B was the product used for
delousing at many camps and also for homicidal purposes at
Auschwitz-Birkenau and, in part, at Majdanek.

The following is quoted from the "Directives for the use of Prussic
Acid  (Zyklon)" as issued by the Health Institution of the Protectorate
Bohemia and  Moravia in Prague. It is contemporary to the reign of the
Nazis in Europe.

BEGIN QUOTE
*Prussic acid is a gas which is generated by evaporation.  
Boiling point: 25 degrees Centigrade [point at which the liquid becomes
gas]  The liquid evaporates easily.
*Prussic acid is soluble in water.  
*Lower limit of combustion: 67.2 g/m^3  
*Higher limit of combustion: 480.0 g/m^3
*Normal application approx. 8-10 g/m^3 [for delousing], therefore not
explosive.
*Prussic acid is one of the most powerful poisons. 1 mg per kg of body
weight  is sufficient to kill a human being. Women and children are
generally more  susceptible than men.
* Poisoning through the skin: Dizziness, headache, vomiting, general
feeling of sickness, etc. All these  symptoms pass if one gets out into
the fresh air.
* The following is the lethal doses (in g/m^3) per species:
 Mosquitos:     0.25 for 30 minutes
 Bugs:          0.25 for 1 hour
 Humans:        0.30 instantly
 Fleas:         1.25 for 2 hours
 Rats and mice: 2.5 for 2 hours
 Lice:          5.00 for 2 hours
 Cockroaches:   5.00 for 2 hours
END QUOTE

>From this we see that larger concentrations and longer periods of time
are needed to kill lice and cockroaches than humans. Concentrations
adequate for delousing are not explosive.

Hope this helps.




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 1:27 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

rs@enetis.net wrote:

>    You must be very new to the list.  If you recall, you've kept the 
>subject alive by your questions after one single post on the subject.  
>The bulk of the mail has been about the "holocaust" (tm).   

Hi an anonoymous writer sent me the following:

Here's a summary of previous email for the two weeks prior to your first 
post on the list.

Material from other mailing lists, notably NSWPPgrams and Zundelgrams, is 
omitted.  Email marked with an asterix concerns the Holocaust or its 
"revision," i.e., the events relating to Jewish persecution 1933-45.

1/ 7  Lemire     calls "Winston Smith" a liar
1/ 7  bs-org     calls Mr. Abram a faggot who posts Jewish crap
1/ 7  bs-org     report on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/ 7  bs-org     says circumcision is infecting German people
1/ 7  bs-org     satirical piece on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/ 9  litz       cut'n'pasted wire story on Butz's website
1/ 9  bs-org     Lueftl news report: acquitted
1/ 9  bs-org     Lueftl update (auf deutsch)
1/11  Savage     advertisement for a book (post-apocalyptic fiction)
1/12  Wahrheit   "SYNAGOGUE LEADER IS KIDDIE PORN CRIMINAL"
1/12  Wahrheit   "KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR-FULL NEWS FILES"
1/12  Wahrheit   "KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR FLEES TO USA"
1/12  bs-org    *purported list of death statistics from war
1/12  bs-org     reply re "KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR-FULL NEWS FILES"
1/12  Wahrheit   ditto
1/13  Lemire     more personal attacks on "Winston Smith"
1/13  Wahrheit   "Jewish laundering of drug money"
1/13  Wahrheit   Israeli war crimes
1/14  bs-org     report: "der khasarische Zionist Nahum Goldmann"
1/14  bs-org     Nahum Goldmann and the New World Order
1/15  Wahrheit   report on Dick Morris ("Those damn jews")
1/15  bs-org     satirical comment on Jews from "Aldebarn"
1/15  Wahrheit   repost of 1/14 Zgram
1/15  bs-org     The Rothschilds and Rockefellers own all the banks
1/15  chuck44    cut'n'paste news story:  Jews and Swiss banks
1/15  bs-org     cut'n'paste Michael Hoffman's homepage (re Butz, Israel)
1/15  bs-org     more satire about "Aldebarn"
1/15  bs-org     "CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST THE WORLD ZIONISM"
1/16  bs-org     "help us expose a jewish left wing terror organisation"
1/17  bs-org     Jews should give up Hebron
1/17  freenet   *Reply to NSWPP "The Holocaust is Bunk"
1/17  bs-org    *The Lachout Documents
1/18  bs-org    *Lachout again
1/18  Wahrheit   Report on Nazi war criminal prosecution
1/18  Wahrheit   "ANTI-ASIAN HATE EMAIL FROM A JEW"
1/18  bs-org     It's good that we can kick Jewish cockroaches off list
1/18  bs-org     Satire on Nazi war criminal prosecution
1/20  bs-org     Report on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/20  bs-org     ditto
1/20  chuck44    ditto
1/21  Wahrheit   cut'n'paste from Calgary Sun re Zundel, Natl Geographic
1/21  Wahrheit   Human rights abuses in Palestine
1/21  Wahrheit   "THE KIDDIE PORN CANTOR"
1/21  freenet    Reply to "The Sixth Gender"

I count 4 revisionism-related messages out of 44, total of 9%.  That's 
"bulk"?

-End of message-

Comments? Is this group about revisionism really?  I'd like to start
debating the holocaust.

Rich




Subject: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 1:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> 
> Re: Debate on the Holocaust,

Questions 1-3 snipped to concentrate on this item:

> Fourthly, where did all the mountains of ash and left over bones disappeared.
> Hardly anything was found. I am sure you dont suggest the Germans used
> Spaceships and carried the leftover to the moon.
> 
I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn't as big
an issue as you  may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at Auschwitz
were not cremated.  There were also mass graves and, in fact, the
decomposing bodies in the swampy land surrounding Birkenau caused many
problems not the least of which was poisoning the water table (and
thereby, the drinking water for Birkenau and the surrounding area).
However, the land was not swampy in the vicinity of Auschwitz I or III
and there mass graves were utilized.
  
Consider these facts:  
If you assume an average of 1 kg of ash per body, and
  assign an arbitrary specific density to ash of 1.0 (i.e.,
  equal to water), then 1 kg of ash will occupy 1000 cubic
  centimeters, which is equal to a cube that's 10 cm on a 
  side.  There are 1000 such cubes in a cubic meter (1 cubic
  meter of water = 1000 liters = 1 metric tonne), so each
  cubic meter would hold the ashes of 1,000 people.  1,000
  cubic meters would contain the ashes of 1,000,000 people 
  (1,000 x 1,000). 
  
A U.S. football field is 50 yds wide by 100 yds long. 
  That's close enough to the same area as a 50 meter by 100
  meter plot for our purposes, so:  50 x 100 = 5000 sq.
  meters = 1 football field.  Put 2 football fields
  side-by-side, for 10,000 sq. m. 
  
   1,000 cubic m.    1 cubic m. 
   _______________ = __________ = 10 cm depth 
   10,000 sq. m.     10 sq. m. 
   
  2.54 cm = 1 in.  Call it 2.5 cm/inch, even-- 10 cm = 4 in.,
  so you could spread the ashes of 1,000,000 people 4" deep
  over two football fields.   

Looking at it from another perspective:
  1,000 cubic m. = 10 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or a 10 meter cube. 
  10 m. is approx. = to 33', thus you could put  the ashes in
  a hole in the ground that's 33' long, 33' wide and 33'
  deep. 

A Cat D-9 operator would have no problem moving such
  small amounts--especially over a four-year period-- Not
  much more than a small rise on the landscape.  We also know
  that thousands of acres around Auschwitz were "under the
  plow," and ashes make a good soil amendment.  Fillip Mueller reports
  local farmers would regularly make trips to Auschwitz to pick up 
  loads of ash to use as soil amemdments.




Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:31 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

     At 06:08 1997-01-24 -0800, ralph Johnson wrote:
     >Richard J. Green wrote: 
     > I write
     >Rich Graves is back.  

Hi,

My name is Rich Green, not Rich Graves.

Regards,

Rich Green




Subject: Wrong Rich was Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:11 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> 
> At 06:08 1997-01-24 -0800, ralph Johnson wrote:
> >Richard J. Green wrote:
> > I write
> >Rich Graves is back.
> 
> dead on ...
> 
Actually, I think you're mistaken.  I happen to know Rick Graves and
he's not on this newsgroup any more.




Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:10 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> 
> At 08:18 1997-01-24 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >NSWPP-CSU wrote:
> >>
> >>                         WHY I BELIEVE IN JEWISH RITUAL MURDER
> >>
> >>                                                         -Winston Smith
> >>
> >Out of curiosity, Why did you pick the psudonym of Winston Smith from
> >1984.  Mr Smith, as I recall, worked in the Ministry of Truth where his
> >job was to write lies.
> 
> May I ask you a equal personal question:  Why did you pick the name Annie
> Alpert? This indicates that your ancestry is khasar royalty. Tell us
> about how your grand-grand-grandfathers  managed to convert millions of
> wild and uncouth turks and tatars to judasism and get - free will -
> their best piece butchered.
> 

Sorry, Mr. Anonymous--no Khazars in MY family tree.  We're a bunch of
midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and Austria.  Perhaps
you have me confused with someone or something else?

Since we're on the subject, though--why did YOU pick the name Anonymous?





Subject: Re: Holocaust Debate, Part 1
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:56 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, NSWPP-CSU wrote:

>
>                             A DEBATE ON THE HOLOCAUST
>                             by Horatius Cocles (horatius_cocles@nile.com)
>                             with interpolations by Winston Smith

>        Nonsense.  HCN is MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE ON WARM BLOODED
>ANIMALS (INCLUDING HUMANS) THAN ON LICE ETC.  Therefore, the
>period of exposure to HCN is MUCH LONGER in delousing
>clothes than in homicidal gassings (while the concentration
>used was about the same).
>
>        [COCLES: The only "nonsense" belongs to Mr. Overman. Zyklon B is a
>slow-acting poison, as any chemistry student can tell you.]

Actually, I am a graduate student in chemistry.  HCN is a very dangerous
and fast acting poison.  It binds to Cytochrome-C and prevents respiration
at the cellular level.  The only reason I can think of why it couldn't
have been used is that the liquid is very dangerous to store and
transport.  They would have needed some kind of solid support such as
gypsum to make it safe to transport and store. 

>        [COCLES: Physics has never been a strong suit of the "holocaust"
>mountebanks. Mr. Overman, here, completely ignores the cumulative effect
>that repeated use of Zyklon B would have had on the walls of this building.]

What would those be?  I don't understand.

>        [COCLES: Notice here how the forensic evidence needed to prove the
>"holocaust" case is: 1.) conveniently missing; and 2.) explained away, in a
>desperate attempt to divert attention from the basic lie.]

So is there really no forensic evidence available?

>        [COCLES: Under the direction of the Talmudists, who had the desired
>conclusion written first, and the facts massaged to fit the foregone
>conclusion later.]
>
>        [I can't say how Talmudic the Cracow Institute are, but they are all
>Communists or ex-Communists, else they would not have obtained college
>degrees and high positions under champions of democracy and free inquiry
>like Gomulka and Jaruzelski. The Polish government also has a vested
>interest in maintaining Auschwitz as a source of tourist revenue. I'd say
>the Cracow Report is about as unbiased as the various tame scientists who
>are hired by the tobacco industry to produce learned "reports" denying the
>obvious fact that smoking is bad for your health. - WINSTON SMITH]

What is a Talmudist?  Also tell me about this Crakow Institute.

>        [I guess that explains all the "No Smoking Signs" in Central
>Prison's gas chamber as well as the fact that guards and witnesses are
>actually searched for cigarettes and lighters before they enter the secured
>area. - WINSTON SMITH]

But Annie just posted those concentrations.  Also, I know that when people
work with HCN in the lab, they worry about toxicity and not explosions.
In fact it's recommended to let HCN that catches on fire burn because it's
safer than putting it out.

>"CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics", or consult any manual dealing with
>toxicity and flammability of chemicals. For HCN, a concentration of 300 ppm
>(parts per million) kills humans within a few minutes, while the minimal
>concentration that can result in an explosion is 56,000 ppm.
>
>        [COCLES: No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.]

I don't understand. Are these numbers wrong.

>        OVERMAN: Claim 5:  Judging by the amount and area of the gas
>chambers, and the number of the Krematoria, it was impossible to kill 6
>million people in the time interval in which the concentration camps existed.
>
>        No. First, nobody claims that 6 million people died in the
>camps. Many died in the ghettos and in Russia. Estimates of the number of
>people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is
>900,000. It is obvious that the extermination and cremation facilities in
>Auschwitz could take care of such a number.
>        
>        [COCLES: "Nobody"? World Jewry has been making exactly that claim,
>for so many years, that Mr. Overman must have been living on the dark side
>of the moon since 1945 to have missed it. It is the chief cornerstone of
>their extortion racket.]

I think what they are saying is that some of the poeple were killed by
other methods.

>        [That ain't the way I heard it growing up in middle-class 1960s
>America, Ed. In point of fact, the Six Million Jews gassed by Hitler in the
>concentration camps was EXACTLY what official historians claimed for many
>years until Revisionists started questioning it and you people had to start
>bobbing and weaving. - WINSTON SMITH]

Now this is interesting.  Which official historians claim this?

Where are the real revisionist arguments.  I assumed that revisionism
was based on better reasoning than what I've seen so far.

Best Regards,

Rich



Subject: Re: Holocaust Debate, Part 2
Sent: January 24, 1997, 3:10 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, NSWPP-CSU wrote:

>        Nonsense.  Zyklon-B was used because - a) It is extremely useful for
>killing people. b) It was widely available, as it was used for delousing. c)
>It is easy to pack, store and transport.
>
>        [COCLES: Two out of three isn't too bad.]

Huh?

>
>        OVERMAN: Claim 8:  Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to
>kill people.  (This claim is made with regard to the death camp of Treblinka
>- see file with ruling of German courts on this. In other death camps,
>gasoline engines were used. The method of killing was simple - people were
>crammed into the gas chambers, and the exhaust of powerful engines was
>pumped into them).
>
>        Nonsense.  In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill.
>There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in "The
>Toxicity of Fumes from a diesel Engine Under Four Different Running
>Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957,
>Vol 14, p. 47-55.  These researchers ran a few experiments in which various
>animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results.
>
>        [COCLES: "Nonsense" must be Overman's favorite word. Perhaps because
>he writes so much of it?]
>
>        [I do not recall ever hearing any responsible Revisionist---or even
>any irresponsible one---claim that diesel fumes won't kill people. Has
>anyone ever actually made such a claim? - WINSTON SMITH]

Yes, I believe that Berg made such a claim.

>        [Again, this is an interesting digression. I completely accept that
>diesel fuel in an enclosed space will kill animals and people, as does any
>person of common sense. Now, I repeat---WHO EXACTLY AMONG REVISIONISTS has
>ever, in fact, CLAIMED that diesel won't kill? The whole subject seems oddly
>specious and contrived to me. - WINSTON SMITH]

Berg.

>        [Overman spends more time on the "diesel will kill" topic than
>almost any other---again, suspiciously in my mind. Is he in fact responding
>to assertions which have never been made by our side? Can someone enlighten
>me? Like I said, I don't keep up with Revisionism as much as I should. -
>WINSTON SMITH]

So it seems that Winston believes that the methods said to have been used
at Treblinka would have worked.  Does everyone on the list agree that
diesel engines can kill?

>        OVERMAN: No, the gas chambers that stood in Auschwitz were designed
>to kill, and did kill, hundreds of thousands of "undesirable" human beings.  
>
>        [They were in fact undesirable, but that's another story. - WINSTON
>SMITH] 

I don't understand.  Do you mean that they should have been killed even
though they weren't.  If they should have been killed why did the National
Socialists not do it?  Were they incompetent?

Regards,

Rich



Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:47 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

>The ovens dont usually burn everything and mountains of bones must
>then be around somewhere. The never have been any mass graves found, not
>to my knowledge. 

Hi Joe, you appear to have made an error on this point.  A friend writes:

    In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow,
    was commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry
    out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the
    locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop
    bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and
    hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes and the
    diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
    Department of the Museum (Franciszek Piper, _Anatomy_,  p. 179n).


>This still does not solve the main problem, where did the millions of
>tons of fuel come from? No records have been found but Jurgen Graf found
>300 pages  on the subject of camp-gardens, bookkeeping and ordered
>fertiliser.  Now why would the SS order fertiliser if they could have used
>the camp ashes.

I'm just trying to understand your argument here.  Are you saying that no
fuel was ever ordered?  If not, how much fuel do you claim was ordered and
how much do you claim was necessary?

Thanks,

Rich



Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:50 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:

rest of note snipped so I can respond the this point:

> This still does not solve the main problem, where did the millions of
> tons of fuel come from? No records have been found but Jurgen Graf found
> 300 pages  on the subject of camp-gardens, bookkeeping and ordered
> fertiliser.  Now why would the SS order fertiliser if they could have used
> the camp ashes.

You don't know much about gardening, do you?  Ash is an excellent soil
amendment which ads akalinity to acidic soil.  Swampy  ground, in fact,
is usually too acidic and needs a little akalinity.  Ash is not,
however, a complete fertilizer--you also need nitrogen to make the soil
produce crops.

It might be a good idea for you to do a little research before you draw
conclusions. . . 

> We believe you when you come up with hard evidence and not story teller
> and liar like Wiesel or Wiesenthal.

Sorry--Did I miss something?  I don't recall citing Simon Wiesenthal or
Elie Wiesel as sources for this discussion.




Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >> May I ask you a equal personal question:  Why did you pick the name Annie
> >> Alpert? This indicates that your ancestry is khasar royalty. Tell us
> >> about how your grand-grand-grandfathers  managed to convert millions of
> >> wild and uncouth turks and tatars to judasism and get - free will -
> >> their best piece butchered.
> >>
> >Sorry, Mr. Anonymous--no Khazars in MY family tree.  We're a bunch of
> >midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and Austria.  Perhaps
> >you have me confused with someone or something else?
> 
> No confusion, search back far enough in yr familiy tree and you find a
> Khasar family-member  called Alpert, Halpern or such. Be glad, because
> it means there is Royal blood in you. Lutherans, Sweden, Austria or such
> does not mean a thing - and we both know it.

Oh, I get it--you think I'm Jewish!  Sorry.  Not the case.  If you think
about for a few minutes, I think you can figure out where you went
wrong.  It's very simple really. 
> 
> >Since we're on the subject, though--why did YOU pick the name Anonymous?
> 
> Since the Zionists have taken over the media and its not safe any more
> to speak the truth. Well, at least for the time beeing.  It will change soon,
> I hope.

How sad to live in fear! 




Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 6:49 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

>>Hi Joe, you appear to have made an error on this point.  A friend writes:
>>
>>    In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow,
>>    was commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry
>>    out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the
>>    locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop
>>    bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and
>>    hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes and the
>>    diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
>>    Department of the Museum (Franciszek Piper, _Anatomy_,  p. 179n).
>
>Thanks for the info, I get this checked. Can you post this documentation
>like scan it and send us the info.

Sorry, I don't have a scanner.  I'm sure you know that this book is
available at a library, however.  So you might consider looking there.

>>I'm just trying to understand your argument here.  Are you saying that no
>>fuel was ever ordered?  If not, how much fuel do you claim was ordered and
>>how much do you claim was necessary?
>
>Again, in all my research I found no original copies of the Reichsbahn
>documents that coal or wood was ordered and delivered in such quantity 
>needed. Zundel has made some calculation on how much would be needed and 
>how many trains full of fuel would have to be delivered. It was about 1 or 
>more Million tons as far as I remember. If you have any proof of these 
>deliveries, pls send it and then we would believe you.

So what you are saying is that you personally have seen no records for the
delivery of  1 or more million tons of coal and wood, but that you believe
this amount would be needed.

Your estimate seems rather large to me. 1 million tons weighs 2 billion
pounds.  1 million people weigh about 150 million pounds.  That seems like
2000 pounds of coal per person.  That seems like an overestimate to me.
Can you please clarify?

Thanks,

Rich



Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 7:48 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> 
> At 13:56 1997-01-24 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Re: Debate on the Holocaust,
> >
> >Questions 1-3 snipped to concentrate on this item:
> >
> >> Fourthly, where did all the mountains of ash and left over bones disappeared.
> >> Hardly anything was found. I am sure you dont suggest the Germans used
> >> Spaceships and carried the leftover to the moon.
> >>
> >I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn't as big
> >an issue as you  may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at Auschwitz
> >were not cremated.  There were also mass graves and, in fact, the
> >decomposing bodies in the swampy land surrounding Birkenau caused many
> >problems not the least of which was poisoning the water table (and
> >thereby, the drinking water for Birkenau and the surrounding area).
> >However, the land was not swampy in the vicinity of Auschwitz I or III
> >and there mass graves were utilized.
> 
> We have never seen any of substantial size, not like the massgraves
> the soviets left behind.

I belleve you are mistaken.  Large graves were found. 

> 
> >Consider these facts:
> >If you assume an average of 1 kg of ash per body, and
> >  assign an arbitrary specific density to ash of 1.0 (i.e.,
> >  equal to water), then 1 kg of ash will occupy 1000 cubic
> >  centimeters, which is equal to a cube that's 10 cm on a
> >  side.  There are 1000 such cubes in a cubic meter (1 cubic
> >  meter of water = 1000 liters = 1 metric tonne), so each
> >  cubic meter would hold the ashes of 1,000 people.  1,000
> >  cubic meters would contain the ashes of 1,000,000 people
> >  (1,000 x 1,000).
> >
> >A U.S. football field is 50 yds wide by 100 yds long.
> >  That's close enough to the same area as a 50 meter by 100
> >  meter plot for our purposes, so:  50 x 100 = 5000 sq.
> >  meters = 1 football field.  Put 2 football fields
> >  side-by-side, for 10,000 sq. m.
> >
> >   1,000 cubic m.    1 cubic m.
> >   _______________ = __________ = 10 cm depth
> >   10,000 sq. m.     10 sq. m.
> >
> >  2.54 cm = 1 in.  Call it 2.5 cm/inch, even-- 10 cm = 4 in.,
> >  so you could spread the ashes of 1,000,000 people 4" deep
> >  over two football fields.
> 
> This calculations may be OK theoretical, but even 50 Years later, you would
> find chemical evidence and bones dont rot in 50 Years. And what about the
> allied air photos in infrared, this ash would show up in any photo, even
> Years later,  the field would have a different temperature. And since I
> believe that the law of nature work equally for Jews and Nazis, you have to
> come up with better arguments than that.
> 
> >Looking at it from another perspective:
> >  1,000 cubic m. = 10 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or a 10 meter cube.
> >  10 m. is approx. = to 33', thus you could put  the ashes in
> >  a hole in the ground that's 33' long, 33' wide and 33'
> >  deep.
> >
> >A Cat D-9 operator would have no problem moving such
> >  small amounts--especially over a four-year period-- Not
> >  much more than a small rise on the landscape.  We also know
> >  that thousands of acres around Auschwitz were "under the
> >  plow," and ashes make a good soil amendment.  Fillip Mueller reports
> >  local farmers would regularly make trips to Auschwitz to pick up
> >  loads of ash to use as soil amemdments.
> 
> The ovens dont usually burn everything and mountains of bones must
> then be around somewhere. The never have been any mass graves found, not
> to my knowledge.

Actually, I overestimated the amount of ash left after cremation--I'm
told (and the IHR also claims) that the amount is about equal to a
shoe-box full. Also, there were a number of shipments of ash-sifters
made to Auschwitz (you check this if you like).  Sonderkommandos have
reported sifting the ashes for large bone parts to be put back into the
ovens. 

It is quite easy to get rid of ash. It was dumped in fields and in
rivers. Ash is not toxic; it can be dumped anywhere. Just compute how
many shoeboxes fit into a large truck. Tens of thousands. What's the
problem with dumping truckload after truckload into rivers or fields?
Auschwitz is built at a junction of rivers, with a large marsh nearby.
In fact, one aerial photograph taken during the war shows large
quantities of what may be human ash in a marsh just outside the
extermination camp facility. 

For comparison, consider that nobody denies that Stalin and Mao killed
tens of
millions of people by various means. No "revisionists" are asking where
the piles of
those bodies are. They focus only on the Nazi Holocaust. Why is this?




Subject: Re: He Has A Point, You Know
Sent: January 25, 1997, 2:45 AM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Winston Smith writes:

>In my opinion there is a very strong possibility that "Richard
>Green" is in fact Rich Graves and his whole thread is a Nizkor project,
>possibly with the object of taking over these lists and transforming them
>into Nizkor playgroups, since real Revisionists no longer waste their time
>in Nizkor's Usenet sand boxes listening to these kikes' dirty little mouths.
>The appearance of Nizkor playgroup habitue and cyber-yenta Annie Alpert
>tends to confirm this. However, since I have no proof, I offer that as
>personal opinion only based on a certain similarity of style between "Green"
>and Graves in his occasional calmer, compos mentis modes.

Hi Winston,

No I'm not Rich Graves.  My name is Rich Green.  I'm surprised that you
would make this accusation when it was you who wrote:

>"National Socialist Forum," December 22, 1996:
>
>   Dear General Secretary:
>   
>   I find this accusation that you "make up" your letters to be a
>   very interesting one. There is a recent parallel: you mentioned in
>   "Slippage of Sanity" that nowadays whenever anyone attempts to
>   post to any of the Nizkor newsgroups (or "playgroups" as they so
>   aptly call them), they are immediately accused by the Nizcrew of
>   being either Matt Giwer or Mike Huber operating under a false
>   e-mail address. This happened to me once, and when I tried to
>   argue with the creepy little kikes who "moderate" the groups I was
>   simply banned from posting. (The usual harassment of my server
>   followed.)
>   
>   Isn't it interesting that your opponents within the "Movement" are
>   using exactly the same tactics against you that the Jews at Nizkor
>   are using, in fact following in their footsteps with those very
>   tactics? Suspicious timing, don't you think?
>   
>   Now, shall I sign my name? Oh, hell, let's keep the damned fools
>   guessing!
>   
>   -XXXXXX
>   
>   [There is such a thing as taking paranoia too far. You are right;
>   the Usual Suspects' tactics are an exact mirror of Nizkor's.
>   [...]  - WS]
>

By the way, someone seems to have accidentally dropped me from this list.
I'm sure that it was an accident as I've been assured by Joe that this
list is about open debate on the Holocaust without fear of censorship.
If I'm wrong and that's not the purpose of this list, please let me know.

So, I'm looking forward to learning more about revisionist arguments.

Best Regards,

Rich







Subject:     Annie Alpert's Lament
Sent:        1/30/97 6:28 PM
Received:    1/30/97 6:58 PM
From:        NSWPP-CSU, nswpp@earthlink.net
To:          nswpp@earthlink.net

                        ANNIE ALPERT'S LAMENT

        The reason that I and other serious Revisionists, National
Socialists, and racial nationalists have stopped posting to
revisionism@c2.net was because it was clear that the list was targeted for
transformation into another Nizkor playgroup, wherein personal abuse and
vilification of anyone who opposes the Jewish agenda for any reason was and
is the order of the day, and where rational discourse remains impossible. 

        I note that the same thing appears to have happened to alt.skinheads
where, in addition to the usual Nizkor dreck, we find such fascinating
"threads" as "I Raped A Carrot" and such profoundly rational and mature
topics as "Kill Nazi Pig-Fuckers". I do not believe that anyone can or
should be faulted for refusal to be associated with this kind of lunacy.
Responding to dysfunctionals only encourages them. I automatically post
NSNet to alt.skinheads in case some legit Skins wander in, but I don't
bother to read it. I can imagine what fun the Nizkooks are having with NSNet.

        The purpose of Nizkor is not, nor has it ever been, to engage in any
debate about the Holocaust. The purpose of Nizkor is to silence those who
oppose The Agenda, and while Annie Alpert was making a notable effort to put
a "civil" face on a very uncivil organization (for the time being), not all
of us are amnesiacs. Like the original Winston Smith, I possess an
inconvenient memory that actually reaches beyond last week. 

        I remember forged e-mails in my name being spewed all over the
globe, e-mails later found to have emanated from the environs of Stanford
University. I remember the massive spam attack on Webcom in December, an
event which seems to have vanished down the memory hole in true Orwellian
fashion, but which before it disappeared from view in the media was found to
have come from a certain server in British Columbia. I remember Rich Graves'
bizarre attempts to pump me for information by e-mail followed by a series
of hysterical attacks on his part culminating in a threat to sue me. I
remember the utterly disgraceful and revolting persecution of Matt Giwer,
Mike Huber, and others. I remember vicious, vile insults and obscene abuse
being hurled at Ingrid Rimland, who despite her occasional eccentricities
has never responded in kind, but has demonstrated an almost saintly grace
and courtesy under incredible provocation which ought to make these scum
hide their faces in shame. I remember the demented e-mails I used to receive
from Andrew Mathis with regularity, saying things that would make a dog
vomit. Even if Nizkor was interested in "debate", I no longer am so far as
they are concerned. I refuse to accord people like this the courtesy of
treating them as equals. They are not fit to appear in human society.

        Sorry, Annie. You'll have to find someone else to play with. I've
got better things to do with my computer, like playing solitaire.

        This is for sure my last post. Annie and her buddies are going down
the memory hole along with times 3.12.83 bb doubleplusungood dayorder and
Comrade Withers. They are unpersons.

        But then, they always were.

                                                        -Winston Smith





     "This destiny does not tire, nor can it be broken, and its mantle of
strength descends upon those in its service." - Francis Parker Yockey, IMPERIUM

Further info: http://www.nswpp.org

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