Archive/File: people/e/eichmann.adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-043-05
Last-Modified: 1999/06/01

State Attorney Bar-Or:  It is better to be precise if
possible.

Von Hahn writes to the Accused:

     "...the Hungarian Legation in Berlin has informed us
     that in the last few days several Hungarian nationals
     of Jewish race residing in the German Reich have been
     arrested.  The Foreign Ministry has not so far
     authorized your office to apply the general anti-Jewish
     measures to Hungarian nationals of Jewish race who
     reside in the German Reich, in the Protectorate, in the
     Generalgouvernement, or in the occupied areas of the
     East.  You are, therefore, requested not to make
     arrests of Hungarian Jews for the time being, or to
     annul such arrests, respectively."

Presiding Judge: This will be T/763.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I proceed to document No. 135, also
marked T/37(14), and, with the Court's permission I shall
also quote a passage from his Statement, since its
importance goes beyond what is said in the document.  What
we have before us is a letter from the Accused to the
Foreign Ministry, marked IVB4a-3 and dated 2 February 1943.
It deals with the owners of the Capitol Cinema in
Heidelberg.  The owners of the cinema (a family by the name
of Romhanyi) are said to be Hungarian by nationality and
Jewish by race.  In view of the fact that they have been
trying to be made Aryans against payment of bribes, Eichmann
intends to issue an order not to renew the residence permit
of Mr. Romhanyi, his wife, and his son Rudolf, which is due
to expire on 12 February 1943, and to deport them from the
Reich at short notice.  On the other hand, Rudy Romhanyi,
who has grossly offended the German authorities, will be
sent to a concentration camp because of his insufferable
conduct.  When this document was shown to the Accused, he
was asked about the fact that here he apparently made a
decision of principle concerning the fate of this family,
and that he consulted the Foreign Ministry, in order to find
out whether there might be considerations which would
interfere with the implementation of his decision for
reasons of policy.  The Accused replied to this on page 584
of his Statement:

     "This is correct - yes - although the text did not
     originate with me, but was drafted by a Sachbearbeiter
     (an officer of the Section) - but it is signed by me by
     order of the Chief of the Security Police and the
     Security Service, since this follows clearly here on
     the top - IVB4a-3 - as far as I know this was at that
     time Regierungsrat Suhr - i.e., the officer of the
     Section.  But as Dezernent (Head of Section), I put my
     signature under it here - this is my signature - I
     signed by order of the Chief of the Security Police."

Dr. Servatius:  Your Honour, the Presiding Judge, I request
permission to read the first sentence of the letter into the
record.

Presiding Judge: Please, what do you wish to read?

Dr. Servatius:  "I enclose herewith copy of a letter from
the Delegate of the Fuehrer for the supervision of all the
spiritual and ideological schooling and education of the
NSDAP, and I ask you to take note."  It follows that we have
here a letter which bears a greater relationship to other
letters, and if so, it is based on the proposal of another
authority and the initiative of another authority.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/764.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to document No. 1282,
"Guidelines for the Technical Implementation of the
Evacuation of Jews to the East (Concentration Camp
Auschwitz)," signed by Guenther and dated 20 February 1943.
They concern the evacuation of Jews to the East from the
area of the Reich and from Bohemia-Moravia.  The local
authorities are charged with seizing the group of persons to
be deported in accordance with the guidelines.   The
categories of persons to be seized are given in Section II.
Then the exceptions are listed, those who enjoy privileged
status, the aged, persons holding certain decorations.  In
Section III there are transport arrangements: "Transports of
at least 1,000 Jews each shall be dispatched in accordance
with a schedule agreed on with the Reich Ministry of
Transport."  Further down on page 4 it says what each person
on the transport must take with him.  Here we find articles
which constitute the minimum requirements for a working
person.  Property of real value must not be taken.

Again I direct your attention to the paragraph on channels
of reporting, and here there is a curious divergence from
what we have seen before.  It says here:

     "...the departure of every train has to be reported
     immediately, by express letter or telegram, in
     accordance with the attached sample (encl. 1) to (a)
     the Head Office for Reich Security, Section IVB4,  (b)
     the Inspector of Concentration Camps, Oranienburg,  (c)
     Concentration Camp Auschwitz.  The arrival of the
     transports at destination shall be reported by the
     receiving office," that is to say, in Auschwitz, "to
     the Head Office for Reich Security, Section IVB4."

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/765.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I pass on to document No. 932, a
letter by von Hahn of the Foreign Ministry to the Head
Office for Reich Security about "Sending back Jews of
foreign nationality to their so-called home countries."  It
again refers to the dates sent to those countries required
to take back the Jews who would otherwise be included in the
expulsions to the East.  Finally, the Foreign Ministry
requests to see to it that not only the Swedish authorities,
but also the Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Turkish,
Portuguese, Swiss, Finnish and Danish authorities provide
the Foreign Ministry with lists of Jews coming under their
jurisdiction.* {*This is not an accurate rendering of the
contents of document No. 932.}

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/766.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Now I go on to document No. 174,
which was shown to the Accused and was marked T/37(76), on
the same subject.  On 25 February 1943, von Hahn of the
Foreign Ministry approaches Eichmann for the second time.
He addresses him "Very Honoured Party Comrade Eichmann" and
says, inter alia:  "Yesterday you informed me orally that
you could not fulfil the request of the Foreign Ministry in
the express letter under reference (i.e., to prepare lists
of Jews who are eligible for being returned to their home
countries).  You explained  your refusal with the argument
that the listing of these persons was not essential for the
prosecution of the War, and that, therefore, you could not
make staff available for this work."  We shall see later
that, in the end, the Accused found a way to fulfil the
request of the Foreign Ministry.  He refers to the document,
starting on page 1260.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/767.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to document No. 165, a
letter from the end of February from the Foreign Ministry to
the Accused.  In the margin it says here ab (out), i.e., it
was sent out apparently on 25 February 1943.  The Foreign
Ministry objects to the departure of Jews of Spanish
nationality to their country of origin or to Portugal and
the United States.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/768.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  And now I return to the
correspondence between the office of the Accused and the
Foreign Ministry, which was discussed this morning.  I
submit Prosecution document No. 173, which consists of two
parts.  First we have here what is called an "Entwurf"
(draft) of a letter to be sent by Bergmann of the Foreign
Ministry to the Accused.  The subject is: "Foreign nationals
of Jewish race." He refers to the draft by the Accused
IVB4b, which we have already seen, and transmits the opinion
of the Foreign Minister that the instructions are generally
to be applied to foreign nationals resident in the Reich,
with the exception of those cases which will be mentioned
later on in the letter.  In this draft, we again find the
passage about the Foreign Ministry's request to make
available for exchange purposes a special camp for 30,000
Jews.

I have also attached to this the original copy of the letter
which was finally sent to the Accused on 2 March  1943, as
signed, not by Bergmann, but by von Hahn.

This document was brought before the Accused and was marked
T/37(87). The Accused refers to it in his Statement on page
1306 ff.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/769.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Now I pass on to document No. 909, a
letter from the Foreign Ministry to the Accused: Foreign
Missions in Berlin point out that, in spite of the agreement
about the return of Jews of foreign nationality to their
countries of origin, the Gestapo offices do not seem to
know, or do not want to know, what was agreed, and carry out
the general anti-Jewish measures against these persons also.
The Foreign Ministry therefore asks the Accused to see to it
that what was agreed should be implemented in an orderly
fashion.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/770.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to document No. 134, which
was shown to the Accused and marked T/37(19).   The Accused
refers to it on page 585 ff. of his Statement.  It is a
letter from the Accused to the Foreign Ministry concerning
the Jew Israel Hirschberg, resident in Berlin-Wilmersdorf.
According to his own statement, the Jew Hirschberg, of
German nationality, is employed as a teacher of languages by
the Thailand Minister in Berlin and teaches both him and the
members of his family.  "Apart from the fact that other,
suitable personnel of German blood should be available for
this occupation," says the Accused, "I am of the opinion
that the Thailand Minister, by employing the Jew Hirschberg,
only intends to protect him from further measures ('vor
Weiterem').  I should, therefore, be grateful if you could
persuade the Thai Minister to renounce the further
employment of the Jew Hirschberg, and ask to be informed
about the action taken."

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/771.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Document No. 230 on our list is a
letter from the Accused to the Foreign Ministry, again on
the subject of that same correspondence.  At last, following
the request of the Foreign Ministry, the Accused now submits
to it also the text of the second circular letter, as sent
out to the Regional Headquarters of the Gestapo in the East,
a text which is not quite in conformity with the opinion of
the Foreign Ministry.  At the end he says, in reply to
arguments by the Foreign Ministry about Gestapo actions
against the Jews here under discussion, that, in future,
steps will be taken to prevent any actions contrary to the
agreement.

Presiding Judge: This document is marked T/772.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Now our document No. 933, a letter
from Guenther marked IVB4b to Rademacher.  Attached to this
letter, the Permanent Deputy of the Accused transmits the
list of Jews of foreign nationality residing in the Reich
area, the list requested, which he could not or would not
submit at first because of lack of manpower.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/773.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I pass on to document No. 729.  This
is a letter from von Thadden of the Foreign Ministry to the
Accused, dated 17 April 1943, in which he actually discloses
the grounds for the entire dispute between the Foreign
Ministry and the office of the Accused regarding the
preparation of the circular which was to go to all
government offices, and which caused problems in connection
with the exemption of certain Jews of foreign nationality.
The Foreign Ministry found out - and this is what von
Thadden writes here - that instructions were sent to the
East (he mentions, in particular, Cracow, Riga, Kiev,
Smolensk and Voroshilovsk) which were not in conformity with
the instructions sent to the other District Headquarters of
the Gestapo, which did conform to what was agreed with the
Foreign Ministry.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/774.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to our document No. 103,
again a letter from von Thadden to the Accused, dated 17
April 1943.  He again refers to the letter of 2 March 1943,
in which the Foreign Ministry had asked the office of the
Accused to have about 30,000 suitable Jews of various
nationalities made available for possible exchange, instead
of deporting them to the East.  "The Foreign Ministry would
be grateful for early, definitive information about the
measures taken by you in this matter."

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/775.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  And now document No. 322.  Again a
letter by von Thadden of the Foreign Ministry to the
Accused, of 19 April 1943.  It is of some interest.  There
was a sect called Djuguten.  It was doubtful whether these
people, whose customs were apparently similar to the customs
of the Jews or to the Jewish religion, could be called Jews,
or whether they were perhaps Moslems.  The Foreign Ministry
points out to the Accused that the customs of these Djuguten
are somewhat similar to those of the Jews, not only are they
Iranian nationals but they appear to be Moslems, and
therefore the Accused should not touch them.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/776.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  And now, to complete the picture,
our document No. 905, which was shown to the Accused and
marked T/37(286).  The Accused refers to it on page   3370
ff. of his Statement.  Here, at last, IVB4, the office of
the Accused, transmits to the Foreign Ministry a copy of the
instructions given to all the offices of the Security Police
in all the Districts of the East.  This is the circular
letter which was not quite in accordance with that  sent to
the Centre and the West.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/777.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I proceed to document No. 202, a
letter of 7 May 1943, to von Thadden, in connection with the
emigration to Sweden of the Jewish family Kaufmann, of
Netherlands nationality.  The Accused says: "In accordance
with the orders of the Reichsfuehrer-SS and the Chief of the
German Police, the emigration of Jews to neutral countries
abroad can only be considered when a positive interest of
the Reich is involved."

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/778.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to document No. 107, which
was shown to the Accused and marked T/37(187).  The Accused
refers to it on page 2299 ff.  It is a letter dealing with
Jews of foreign nationality, in an attempt to achieve at
last a definitive solution to this question.  It says:

     "In accordance with the present state of the Final
     Solution of the Jewish Question in the Reich, only Jews
     cohabiting in mixed, German-Jewish marriages and a few
     Jews of foreign nationality are left in the Reich
     area."

And then:

     "In order to reach a definitive solution in this
     respect, the foreign governments concerned must be
     given a final date for the completion of the
     repatriation."

Finally Eichmann writes:

     "In conclusion, it is requested, in the interest of the
     Final Solution of the Jewish Question, to put aside any
     possible objections, since, up to now, the Reich has
     been generously forthcoming vis-a-vis the foreign
     governments in this matter."

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/779.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Now our document No. 1060, a letter
from Hunsche of the office of the Accused which deals with
property questions of an individual Jew by the name of Frank
from the District of Mainfranken.  This is a matter of
confiscation under Regulation 11, under the notorious law.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/780.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  Our document No. 906 is a letter
from von Thadden to the Accused, dated 10 July 1943.  It
concerns again the Termin, the last day given to the various
governments for settling the question.  And the final date
set here is 31 July 1943.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/781.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I go on to document No. 536.  It is
a Vortragsnotiz (notes for a report).  These are notes
usually typewritten in bold, very large letters, prepared by
a State Undersecretary, if they were to be submitted to the
Foreign Minister himself.  I direct your attention to page 3
of the document, which was prepared on 12 June 1943.  Wagner
here informs the Foreign Minister about the steps taken by
the Ministry in order to pressure foreign states into
repatriating those few of their Jews who are still left in
the area of the Reich.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/782.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  I proceed to document No. 1287.
This is a Schlussbericht, a concluding report, from the
District Headquarters of the Gestapo in Wuerzburg, dated 6
August 1943, about transports totalling 2,063 Jews from the
district of Mainfranken, which left for the East, from
Wuerzburg alone, between November 1941 and June 1943.
Details of seven transports are given here, four to the East
and three to Theresienstadt.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/783.

State Attorney Bar-Or:  And now Prosecution document No.
537.  It was shown to the Accused and marked T/37(186).  The
Accused refers to it on page 2290 ff.  The document is
signed by Mueller and was sent from IVB4b on 9 September
1943.  The date is important, since the Court yesterday
heard a witness who was transferred from Westerbork to
Ravensbrueck.  On page 4 we find the following: "Since, for
political reasons, these Jews cannot yet be deported to the
East at the present time, Concentration Camp Buchenwald is
envisaged for the temporary accommodation of male Jews over
14 years of age, and Concentration Camp Ravensbrueck for
Jewesses as well as children."  About three months later,
Mrs. Salzberger found herself, in fact, in Ravensbrueck.
According to what she told the Court, she belonged to
Category No. 1 of this document.

Presiding Judge: This document will be marked T/784.

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