From mike@aimetering.com Thu Oct 17 09:17:20 PDT 1996
Article: 75176 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!zilker.net!usenet
From: mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Miracle on 54th street-In and Out of the Gas Chamber!
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:03:31 GMT
Organization: Zilker Internet Park, Inc.
Lines: 343
Message-ID: <3266291a.1189896825@news.zilker.net>
References: <53t9d4$7vr@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mike.aimetering.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.299

rblackmore@juno.com wrote:



[HEADERS DELETED]
>

[Please refer to the prior post for Mr. Blackmore's quotations. I've
cut it here for reasons of length. If you wish a copy of his quotes
then email me your request.]

>Source:  The Belsen Trial, pg. 79, 80, 81.


>Comment:  Now, I would be most interested to
>hear how the faithful explain away this little
>episode of another mendacious witness.

Mr. Blackmore is certainly quick on the draw when
it comes to accusing people of mendacity. Perhaps
if his humanity and compassion had not been worn 
down to nothingness by his affiliation with the purveyors
of hatred, he might place himself in a similar circumstance
as the witness  Litwinska might have faced.

For the record, the book is being consulted is: 

        _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER AND FORTY-FOUR OTHERS_
           (The Belsen Trial)
           ed. Raymond Phillips, M.C., M.A., B.C.L. (Oxon.),
           1949, William Hodge and Company

Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would be so kind as to offer
details of the version he is consulting, as it would appear that
only one edition of the book has been published.


>The whole story reeks with impossibilities
>and complete fabrications.

Mr. Blackmore ought to understand the principle of
"convergence of evidence"  a bit better before making 
such outrageous statements. The first issue that one should 
address is: "Was there a gas chamber in Dachau in 
December, 1941?"

        _AUSCHWITZ - 1270 to the Present_
          Deborah Dwork & Robert Jan van Pelt
          c. 1996,  W. W. Norton
           ISBN  0-393-03933-1

[Page 301]

   "The morgue of the crematorium in the main camp had been
transformed in September 1941 into an effective gas chamber
which could hold 900 people..."

It was therefore possible for the witness Litwinska to have been
in the chamber on Christmas eve, 1941.

>According to this "eyewitness", the people in the gas chamber
>were about ready to tear each other apart,  so that
>if left to their own devices, no gas was necessary to
>kill them.

There is no such insinuation in the testimony of the witness. Mr.
Blackmore is allowing his febrile imagination get the better of
him.

From:  _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER..._

[Pages 79-80]

"Seventh Day - Monday, 24th September, 1945"

   "SOPHIA LITWENSKA, sworn, examined by Colonel Backhouse -- 
I am 29 years of age, from Lublin, Poland, where I was arrested on
19th May, 1940, because I was a Jewss.  I received no form of trial,
was first kept at Lublin for a year and then sent to Auschwitz where I
arrived in the Autumn of 1941.  My husband, who was not a Jew, was a 
lieutenant in the Polish Army and was arrested also. [...]

   When you reached the crematorium what happened there?  The whole
truck was tipped over in the way they do it sometimes with potatoes or
coal loads, and we were led into a room which gave the impression of
a shower bath. There were towels hanging round, and sprays and even
mirrors.  I cannot say how many were in the room altogether,  because 
I WAS SO TERRIFIED [emphasis mine], nor do I know if the doors
were closed. People were in tears; people were shouting; people were
hitting each other. There were healthy people, strong people, weak 
people and sick people, and suddenly I saw fumes coming in through a
small window at the top. [...]"

It is improbable that the witness would have seen fumes coming in
through a small window at the top. Sophia Litwenska was probably
in severe psychosomatic shock, something not unlikely under the
circumstances.    I will allow that she probably did not see "fumes
coming in through as small window at the top."  Certainly not
hydrogen cyanide fumes. She could have, however, seen other
fumes. ( See _Auschwitz Chronicle..._  July 28, 1941 as quoted
below). She could also have seen a handful of smallish pellets raining
down on her and her fellow prisoners but, like Mr. Blackmore's 
observations, this is simple rumination.   I would  beg the readers to

consider how they would react to a similar stimulus under such 
Dantesque conditions.

   "What was the next thing you remembered? - At that moment I heard
my name called. I had not the strength to answer it, but raised my
arm. Then I felt someone take me and throw me out from that room.
Hoessler put a blanket round me and took me on a motor cycle to the
hospital,  where I stayed six weeks." 

Was Hoessler in Auschitz at the time?  was he involved in the gassing
process? Were other gases used in the early days of the extermination
process to murder prisoners in/from Auschwitz? Let us analyse another
example of convergence:

 From _AUSCHWITZ CHRONICLE..._

[Page 75]

"1941 -- July 28"

   "[...] Following Dr. Schumann's orders, the transport is sent to
Sonnenstein under the direction of Roll Call Leader Franz Hoessler.  A
report to Hoess that Hoessler makes after his return states that the
prisoners were gassed in a bathroom where carbon monoxide gas was
introduced through the showerheads."

[Page 177]

"1942 -- April 15

   "[...] The new department retains SS Technical Sergeant Franz
Hoessler, SS Corporal Goebbert, and SS Corporal Heinrich Schoppe as
Labor Managers." 

(Other citations for Hoessler appear on pages 178, 238, 252, 255n,
275, 298, 398, 470, 472, 499, 530, 531, 533, 634, 718, 751, 775.  This
would indicate that Hoessler was a person of some importance in the
camp. Is it remotely possible that Hoessler's relationship with the
witness was more than that of a simple rescuer?)

> Aside from all this, she states that she "saw fumes
>coming in through a small window at  the top." 

She does state this. See above.

> How interesting....

Only to those of a ghoulish nature.

>Further, her statement about healthy and strong
>individuals being placed in the chamber is contrary to
>everything written about the purpose of the selections.

Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would care to define the date
when the selection process was initiated. Perhaps he
would also like to assert that healthy and strong individuals
of both sexes were not murdered by gassing, shooting, 
hanging or any of the other methods described in the 
literature.  Perhaps he would further like to assert that
there are not a myriad of instances in the literature that
document such deaths.

>Her lapse of memory was merely a self-serving device to
>avoid being pressed for detailed information. 

Mr.  Blackmore must prove what he asserts. He does not
know what might have caused any possible lapses of 
memory in the witness. 

> Also, her statement that she had been in the gas chamber 
>1 to 2 minutes is nothing more than a complete fabrication.  
>No one could be exposed to cyanide gas for that length of 
>time and come out alive.

Mr. Blackmore makes an excellent observation that will no doubt
embarrass his companions in denial.  For many months we have
been attempting to convince said persons that hydrogen
cyanide (in sufficient concentration, of course) will kill
a person in a very few minutes.   We thank Mr. Blackmore
for his kindness.  

It is quite true that the witness would have perished if the 
level of hydrogen cyanide had reached a concentration of
some 300 parts per  million.  We do not know, however 
if: 

        (a) This level had been reached when the rescue
        took place.  Reaction to hydrogen cyanide
        gas was greatly anticipated by the irritant and
        lachrymogen that was originally included in the
        Zyklon-B pellets.  If, for example, only a small
        amount of Zyklon-B had been dropped   in the 
        chamber, the irritant and lachrymogen would have
        caused a dreadful reaction not unlike the one 
        described by the witness, but it would not have
        been lethal.  Is it _possible_ that Hoessner, 
        realizing that this woman was in the chamber could
        have stopped the process before more than a
        small quantity of Zyklon-B was dropped in
        the chamber?  Mr. Blackmore might question
        _why_ Hoessner might have saved this young
        woman.  Let him use his excellent powers of
        imagination.

        (b) The witness might have been taken elsewhere
        for "processing" such as the bathroom described
        above.

        (c) A gas different to hydrogen cyanide might have
        been employed in the early days of this gas chamber.

All of the above are suppositions, some bearing more weight
than others.  They are surely no less valid than Mr. Blackmore's 
undocumented appreciation of the testimony. If he allows 
himself to speculate, we can not do less.       


>Conveniently she also failed to notice whether her rescuer
>was wearing a gas mask or not, and the very idea that a guard
>could simply walk into the gas chamber and escort her out
>without a full riot on his hands is absurd. 

If Mr. Blackmore would consider option (a) above, he would
understand why the witness might not have been able to 
establish whether or not her rescuer was wearing a gas mask.

> Also, her testimony that she heard her name being called in 
>all that pandemonium is laughable, considering how much 
>screaming would have been going on as the people realized
> they were going to be "gassed".

Improbable, but not impossible. If scenario (a) above is played,
the screaming would have been greatly reduced. I challenge
Mr. Blackmore to yell loudly with a lungful of, say,
2-Bromobutanoic acid, or of 2-Bromo-1-phenylethanone
acting on his mucous membranes and eyes.


>The witness further reduced to commit herself to an actual
>number, but it would have been significant, as she had testified
>that "health, strong, weak, and sick" people were all herded in
>to the "gas chamber".

So who was counting?  I challenge Mr. Blackmore to give
an exact, indeed an approximate count of the persons that 
are herded (together with himself) into a darkened room,
under gunpoint, unclothed, terrified, with the premonition
that they will not emerge alive. 

> Anyone who has read even a minute amount of material on 
>the history of Auschwitz would find her statement that she 
>recuperated in the hospital for six weeks after the alleged 
>gassing to be ridiculous. 

Not altogether ridiculous. She has stated that it happened, Mr.
Blackmore cannot prove that it did not happen. If Miss
Litwinska was saved from the gas chambers by an important
member of the SS, it is not improbable that she would have
been under his protection during her stay in the hospital.

Hoessler was not entirely without human sentiments.
From: _AUSCHWITZ CHRONICLES..._

[page 499]

"1943 -- October 4]

   "[...] No. 155910 is given to Josef Gomez, born on April
18, 1943. According to a report by his mother, Anna Gomez,
she hid the newborn with the aid of fellow prisoners. When this
infant is discovered and the boy threatened with death, the
mother pleads with Camp Commander Hoessler, who permits
her to keep the child." 


> Finally, I cross referenced Hoessler's testimony ... 

Indeed?  Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would illuminate us with a
complete citation of the documents and  reasonably 
accurate and un-editorialised renditions of this testimony.
Apart, of course, from that which is found in _TRIAL
OF KRAMER ..._ to which we will refer to below:

>... regarding this incident and of course, he denied it.  

Did he, now?  

[Pages 195-197]

"Evidence for the Defendant Franz Hoessler"

   "FRANZ HOESSLER, sworn, examined by Major Munro - I am of
German Nationality, was born in Oberdorg in Schwaben on 4th 
February, 1906.  I am a photographer by profession. [...] 

   "Do you remember the witness Litwenska saying that you took her
out from the gas chamber?  -  Yes, but it was someone else whom I 
TOOK FROM THE GAS CHAMBER (emphasis mine). Those who
had been selected were in trucks and went down in the direction
of the crematorium. I was on the road when one of these trucks 
passed by, and I saw a woman whom I recognized in the back of
the truck. Suddenly two women came and implored me to save
her. I saw a motor cyclist near the block facing me, and I told him
to go and fetch the woman AND TAKE HER TO THE HOSPITAL
(emphasis mine).   SHE HAD NOT BEEN INSIDE THE GAS
CHAMBER (emphasis mine).

Had she been inside the chamber or not,? Is not the witnesses' 
testimony just a little to close to that of  her captor not to bear 
some credibility?    Did Hoessler have or not have the power and
the ability to save some persons (mostly women?) from the gas
chambers?

[Page 198]

(Hoessler's testimony continues) 

   "Did you do anything to prevent people from being sent to the
gas chamber? - Yes, very often young girls came to me (*) and
implored me, saying that their sister or their friend or somebody 
else they liked was in Block 25 and I should try to save them, and 
I have done so. [...]" 

(*) Does the reader discern a pattern here?


Now, I am truly curious to see if anyone in Nizkorland
>will make an attempt to defend this preposterous story and obvious
>LIE.

No longer preposterous, one might observe,  from the testimony
shown above.   Mr. Blackmore's feeble attempts at abusive
humor (Nizkorland) are noted together with his inability to 
understand the process of converging evidence. Perhaps
Mr. Blackmore would consider giving this subject some rest
before his credibility is totally shattered.
 

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor