Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id VAA22536 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:44:41 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id UAA07658; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:46:35 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id UAA07649; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:46:33 -0600
Received: from [198.109.137.26] (clmx26.dial.voyager.net [198.109.137.26]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id VAA22427; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:44:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199703270244.VAA22427@vixa.voyager.net>
Subject: crosslink request
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 21:46:57 -0500
x-sender: jamie@mail.voyager.net
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997
From: Jamie McCarthy 
To: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Ms. Rimland,

Please begin changing the link at the bottom of each Zundelsite page from

   http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

(or whatever it currently is) to

   http://www.nizkor.org/crosslink-ezundel.cgi

Please notify me when you begin and when you finish this process.

Thank you.

--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/
 I lost 100+ incoming emails from 10 AM - 11 PM, Thursday, March 20.
 If you didn't get a reply from me on it, I lost it;  please resend.








Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id HAA15069 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:05:22 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA12546 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:07:54 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:07:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: irimland@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
From: irimland@cts.com (Ingrid Rimland)
Subject: Re: crosslink request


Jamie,

You've got to be kidding!  Would we ask YOU to link to a page called
"Jamie's buns"?

We are linking to the Nizkor home page, as we have done before.  We are in
the very serious business of Holocaust busting and not in the business of
personal, childish vendettas.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/







Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id NAA26327 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:23:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id MAA03329; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:25:01 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id MAA03323; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:24:58 -0600
Received: from [198.109.137.31] (clmx31.dial.voyager.net [198.109.137.31]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id NAA26272; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199703281822.NAA26272@vixa.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: crosslink request
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 13:25:33 -0500
x-sender: jamie@mail.voyager.net
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997
From: Jamie McCarthy 
To: "Ingrid Rimland" 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>You've got to be kidding!  Would we ask YOU to link to a page called
>"Jamie's buns"?
>
>We are linking to the Nizkor home page, as we have done before.  We are in
>the very serious business of Holocaust busting and not in the business of
>personal, childish vendettas.

Perhaps you don't understand.  This CGI, crosslink-ezundel.cgi, will 
allow us to provide direct crosslinked refutations to your material.  If 
you put the link to this CGI on your Leuchter Report page, and then click 
on it from that page, the CGI will present (among other things) our 
rebuttal of the Leuchter Report.

This is what you agreed to do back in, as I recall, November.

This is what I offered to do so that you would not have to do any extra 
work to get our sites crosslinked (beyond editing the footer that you 
paste in, and editing the footer on existing documents).

I told you that it would not happen until later.  Now it is later, and I 
have the time to write that code, so I am prepared to begin my part of 
our agreement.

Are you now saying that you will not participate in crosslinking, even 
though you promised you would?

Please explain why that is.

--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/








Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id QAA06370 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:44:31 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22307 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:47:01 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:47:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: irimland@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
X-UIDL: 859595998.017
From: irimland@cts.com (Ingrid Rimland)
Subject: Re: crosslink request
Status: U

Jamie,

No, I will change the link if it goes to your home page or to specific
pages pertaining to a specific argument and not to a personal vendetta page
that has nothing ot do with Holocaust refutation.

Write the program and let me try it out, and if it works, then I will use
it from now on.  As I understand it, you haven't yet written it, and you
want me to link to some silly UFO and personal character assassintion page.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/









To: "Ingrid Rimland" 
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 20:32:00 -0500
Subject: Re: crosslink request

>No, I will change the link if it goes to your home page or to specific
>pages pertaining to a specific argument and not to a personal vendetta page
>that has nothing ot do with Holocaust refutation.

I did not realize that you were now a co-webmaster of the Nizkor site!

The agreement was that you would provide a cross-link to a CGI which
would allow us to tailor-make a reply to whichever page your users
came from.  You're telling me that if our tailor-made reply includes
information about Zundel's UFOs and his views on censorship, then you
will not participate.

That is bunk.  If you will allow us to respond, you must allow us to
say whatever we like, including presenting the reader with information
which you do not approve of.  I imagine we have a great deal of
information at our site which you do not approve of, and the _point_
of cross-linking is to allow us to present it to you.

What you are asking us to do is censor ourselves to suit Ernst
Zundel's whims, and I for one refuse to participate in
self-censorship.

Please tell that to Mr. Zundel, and ask him again whether it will be
acceptable for you to take advantage of this favor I am doing for you,
this service which I am offering you.

>Write the program and let me try it out, and if it works, then I will use
>it from now on.  As I understand it, you haven't yet written it, and you
>want me to link to some silly UFO and personal character assassintion page.

What the program will do is check out a small database which will look
up where on your site the reader came from, and provide a _list_ of
pages on our site that are appropriate to go to.

At the moment, the database is very small (it only works for pages on
a test site) and so it finds no matches and always sends the reader to
the "crosslink-ezundel.html" page which you've seen.

This will not always be the case.  The database will grow as we find
time to add entries.

But, I refuse to guarantee you that the UFO and "character
assassination" pages will never be on this list.  In fact, I can
pretty much guarantee you that they will _always_ be on the list,
because Zundel's shameless hucksterism and Zundel's hypocrisy are
relevant to every page on Zundel's site.

If what you are telling me is that I must self-censor, that I must
remove items from this database, or promise not to put items into this
database in the future, in order for you take advantage of my offer to
help you, then I am afraid you are simply asking too much.

Please ask Mr. Zundel if he really demands self-censorship, if he
really demands that we promise never to mention what he has written
about UFOs and Schindler's List before he will take advantage of the
interactive nature of what I am offering.  Because I cannot believe
that you are making these demands upon me, or that this is what Mr.
Zundel would want.

--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/







Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id XAA02413 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:13:18 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08569 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:15:48 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:15:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
X-UIDL: 859680891.021
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: crosslink request
Status: RO


Jamie -

you never cease to amaze me.  Are you sure you are not a member of the tribe?

You were asking me to provide a link on every one of our documents to a
document that had nothing to do with Holocaust endorsement or refutation.
I said "no". You would have said "no" if I had featured "Jamie's buns" on
our Zundelsite as evidence of your "corruption" - or "hucksterism" as you
put it - and asked you to link every single document of yours to that.

You would have told me to go fly a kite.  That's what I said to you.

I did not say "no" to a sensible program that would create meaningful links
to pertinent documents.  I did not say I would define what "pertinent
documents" should be.  Frankly, it never even occurred to me that I might
have.  I was simply objecting to a single page that WASN'T pertinent - and
I let you know that what you were requesting was silly. I mentioned
"Jamie's buns" to make you understand that.

You say you haven't yet written such a document, but you will.  I say go
ahead, and if it makes sense I will cooperate.

I am not censoring you.  I have not the slightest objection to have you
include what you consider dirt on Mr. Zundel - namely his hobbies in his
youth, which included but were not limited to UFOs.  No big deal.  No sweat
at all.  You have certainly already made enough hay out of nothing. The UFO
story is years if not decades old and has nothing to do with Mr. Zundel's
current political activism - and it shows up the limits of your "rebuttals"
that you can't come up with anything better and have to keep on harping it
to death. It's a dead horse - stop beating it.  You look very foolish
flogging it.

I can promise you that we won't feature your "buns" as evidence of your
"wickedness" ten, twenty years from now on any of our websites.  You are
entitled to your hobbies. Let other folks have theirs.

There is nothing that you have at Nizkor that we are afraid of.  Nada.
Zero.  Zilch.  But I can't imagine why I would bother providing a link on
every single document of ours to a silly vendetta page of yours on the
promise of a future program that may or may not materialize. It hasn't yet.
Write that program, and then we will talk turkey.

Over and out.  And I mean it.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id TAA29662 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:42:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id SAA26034; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:44:07 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id SAA26028; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:44:03 -0600
Received: from [161.57.44.217] (pm042-16.dialip.mich.net [161.57.44.217]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id TAA29552; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:41:36 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jamie@vixa.voyager.net
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:50:01 -0500
To: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel), Jamie McCarthy 
X-UIDL: 859691096.001
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Subject: Re: crosslink request
Status: RO

>You would have said "no" if I had featured "Jamie's buns" on
>our Zundelsite as evidence of your "corruption" - or "hucksterism" as you
>put it - and asked you to link every single document of yours to that.

Your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.  I am _asking_ you to link
your documents to this CGI because you have already _refused_ in no
uncertain terms to engage in manual crosslinking.  The Nizkor site
engages in manual crosslinking, in fact we pioneered the process,
thus what you are suggesting is totally unnecessary and irrelevant.

Why do you keep returning to "Jamie's buns"?  Beg pardon for asking,
but what do my rabbits have to do with my honesty, my character, or
the worth of my opinions?

>I did not say "no" to a sensible program that would create meaningful links
>to pertinent documents.  I did not say I would define what "pertinent
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>documents" should be.  Frankly, it never even occurred to me that I might
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>have.  I was simply objecting to a single page that WASN'T pertinent - 
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To help you understand the contradictory nature of your statements, I
have underlined them above.

I think the "crosslink-ezundel.html" page is pertinent, to some degree,
to every page on the Zundelsite.  You obviously disagree.  You say you
will not provide the crosslinks until that page is made pertinent.
Therefore you are defining the terms under which crosslinking will take
place, and you are asking me to self-censor in order that crosslinking
may take place.

Do you understand now?

>promise of a future program that may or may not materialize. It hasn't yet.
>Write that program, and then we will talk turkey.

The program is written.  Its URL is

http://www.nizkor.org/crosslink-ezundel.cgi

The "CGI" indicates that it is a program.

Currently that program only knows how to handle 1% of requests and for
the remainder, sends the user to a default page, "crosslink-ezundel.html".

That will change.  Within 48 hours, that number will rise from 1% to
maybe 5%, then 10% by the end of the week.  Perhaps within a month
we will be handling 50% of crosslinks from your site "properly," i.e.,
presenting an appropriate list of rebuttal pages rather than
presenting the generic list right now.  Perhaps by the end of the year
that number will be 99% or 100%.

It is for us to decide how we allocate our resources -- and make no
mistake, writing this program, testing it, and improving its accuracy
requires _our_ resources.

For you to demand that this program's accuracy be -- what? 10%? 50%? --
before you will engage in cross-linking is ludicrous.  That's the kind
of decision I and my fellow webmasters will make.  It is not for you to
dictate to me.

>Over and out.  And I mean it.

You appear to be saying is that you refuse to even discuss this matter
unless I censor myself by making you a co-webmaster of the Nizkor site.

>You say you haven't yet written such a document, but you will.  I say go
>ahead, and if it makes sense I will cooperate.

This is truly exasperating.

If I fix the program to show you how it works, let's say it only handles
crosslinks from the Leuchter Report to our Leuchter FAQ, will you then
agree to install it on all your pages (with reasonable speed, of course)?

I don't think I can trust you any more to not break promises, but if you
promise that, then I will (once again) fulfill my part of the agreement.

Because, Ms. Rimland, I want crosslinking so bad, I will drop the other
things I am doing and give you a little "technology demo" if that's what
it will take.  Believe me, I have other things to do -- but I will
continue to accomodate you if that's what it takes.

Let me know.

--
 Jamie McCarthy             http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net           co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/









Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id LAA21732 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:57:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id KAA03379; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:58:45 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id KAA03327; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:53:10 -0600
Received: from [198.109.137.20] (clmx20.dial.voyager.net [198.109.137.20]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id LAA18849; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:46:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199704021646.LAA18849@vixa.voyager.net>
Subject: crosslink CGI written
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 11:49:01 -0500
x-sender: jamie@mail.voyager.net
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997
From: Jamie McCarthy 
To: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Ms. Rimland,

The crosslink CGI is written and operational.  Its database is small but 
functional.

Please add a link to it on one or more of your pages, as a test.  I 
suggest replacing your link to Nizkor's home page with a link to this 
CGI, as we discussed.  A sample link might be:


   
The Nizkor site may have
   a response
   to this page.


When you have added that text to one of your pages, call that page up in 
your web browser and click on the link.  It will take you to our 
crosslink CGI which will attempt to present you with information 
custom-tailored to where you came from on your site.

BTW, if you go to  by typing 
in its URL, it will detect that you are not coming from a link on the 
Zundelsite, and will not present any useful information.  To test this, 
you must add the link to one or more of your pages and click on it.

Also BTW, if you're doing lots of testing, you may have to hit Reload in 
your browser before clicking on the link, or possibly quit your browser 
and relaunch it, for best results.  It depends on what browser you're 
using.  Our readers, who will not be doing lots of testing, will not have 
this problem.

Only a few areas of the Zundelsite will _currently_ present worthwhile 
information, because our database is small.  I didn't want to take the 
time to type in a huge database until I knew whether you were going to 
participate.  More, much more, will be on the way if you agree to add 
crosslinks to your entire site.  I suggest putting your test links on 
pages such as these, which are already entered in our database:


http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/leuchter/report1/leuchtertoc.html

http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/leuchter/report1/toxic.html

http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/incorr/incorrect.004.html

http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/dsmrd/dsmrd29lachout.html


But feel free to put test links on whatever pages you like.

Once you have verified that this does indeed work, please contact me and 
let me know what you intend to do.

_Please_ keep in mind that this CGI is not fully tested -- because of the 
way the web works, it _cannot_ be fully tested until you cooperate by 
adding these cross-links.

If you find a bug or if it doesn't work quite right, don't give up on me! 
 All that's required of you is to switch the link from homepage to CGI 
(or to add it, in the case of pages which don't have it already).  It's 
my job to fix any glitches and to add to and improve our database.  If 
you do your job, I'll do mine -- believe me!

Thank you.


--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/






Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id PAA21371 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:55:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17707 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:57:02 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:57:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
X-UIDL: 860014674.001
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written
Status: RO

Jamie -

I put a link at the bottom of our
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/leuchter/report1/leuchtertoc.html
as you suggested.  Take a look at it.  This is just a test, but it seems to
me that it does not add anything since it only takes me to the same home
page under two different URLs.

Why does it not take me to a "Leuchter Rebuttal" page?  That would make
sense to me.

If you work out a PROPER, MEANINGFUL system, I will from now on add such a
link to every new page/document we are setting up.  I will not go back on
documents that already have a footer simply because it is too much work and
I said from the very beginning that I did not like to be at the mercy of
arbitrary links that you would dream up as you go along and where I would
be stuck with providing the shuttle service.

I am not adverse to putting up links by hand, going back, on a VERY SMALL
number of critical documents - let's say the Leuchter Report, The Rudolf
Report, the Porter translations, the 66QA etc.  At this point, I do not
want to commit myself to more than 12, because I want to try it out.  I
think it is important to do this for critical documents, although they may
already have a standard footer.

But generally, I do not want to do this hand-linking on a page by page
basis because it is just too much work.  It is NO work on future documents,
and I have no objection to doing it that way IF we have a system that is a
genuine rebuttal system on TOPICS.

I will not cooperate if you make a personal character assassination page
your main entry gate because that is not meaningful rebuttal work but
merely a smear job.

When we first started talking about this kind of linking, I visualized a
program whereby we would have a standard, uniform link at the bottom of
each new page that would take both friend and foe to refuting arguments.  I
visualized a database on your end that would sort out arguments by topic
and lead readers to relevant documents on your site that you want them to
see.  The navigational part of such a system would be up to you, not us.
We would merely provide a boilerplate link.

Was I wrong?

By the way, would you at Nizkor be willing to work with us on getting a
large, prestigious university to put up a LIVE debate?  You bring your
intellectual guns, and we bring ours?  It would HAVE be called a "debate",
however, and be promoted as a debate.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id QAA28205 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 16:22:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id PAA09856; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:24:15 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id PAA09850; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:24:03 -0600
Received: from maple ([207.1.205.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id QAA27914; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 16:21:09 -0500 (EST)
Sender: jamie@voyager.net
Message-ID: <3342CF0D.CABD91@voyager.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 16:26:37 -0500
X-UIDL: 860016473.002
From: Jamie McCarthy 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "E. Zundel" 
CC: jamie@veritas.nizkor.org
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Status: RO

> I put a link at the bottom of our
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/leuchter/report1/leuchtertoc.html
> as you suggested.  Take a look at it.  This is just a test, but it seems to
> me that it does not add anything since it only takes me to the same home
> page under two different URLs.
> 
> Why does it not take me to a "Leuchter Rebuttal" page?  That would make
> sense to me.

It does -- actually, it would have been broken as of a few seconds ago,
but it works now.  It tells me:

   Regarding the "Leuchter Report," please see 

      * Our Leuchter FAQ which has been online since 1993 

   We hope the above information helps. 

and includes a link, of course, to our Leuchter FAQ.

Thanks for putting up this link.  I'll continue testing the system from
this point.

By the way, please do not use www.almanac.bc.ca for future links.  It's
OK for existing pages but please use www.nizkor.org instead.  That's
been our URL for about the last year or more.

Also by the way, your HTML code is missing an "" on that Leuchter
page;  no biggie but I thought you might like to know.

> If you work out a PROPER, MEANINGFUL system, I will from now on add such a
> link to every new page/document we are setting up.

Great.  Let's get this confirmed first.  This is indeed a proper,
meaningful system.  Right?

> I will not go back on
> documents that already have a footer simply because it is too much work and
> I said from the very beginning that I did not like to be at the mercy of
> arbitrary links that you would dream up as you go along and where I would
> be stuck with providing the shuttle service.

The whole point of this system, and the reason I've spent my time
writing this code to accomodate you instead of working on my web
site, is that the links are _not_ arbitrary.  You are _not_ at my
mercy.  This one location:

http://www.nizkor.org/crosslink-ezundel.cgi

...is the only location you ever need to crosslink to.  Its URL
will never, ever change.  This is as simple as things can possibly
get for you.

> I am not adverse to putting up links by hand, going back, on a VERY SMALL
> number of critical documents - let's say the Leuchter Report, The Rudolf
> Report, the Porter translations, the 66QA etc.  At this point, I do not
> want to commit myself to more than 12, because I want to try it out.  I
> think it is important to do this for critical documents, although they may
> already have a standard footer.
> 
> But generally, I do not want to do this hand-linking on a page by page
> basis because it is just too much work.  It is NO work on future documents,
> and I have no objection to doing it that way IF we have a system that is a
> genuine rebuttal system on TOPICS.

Excellent.  We now have, as I'm sure you see, a genuine, topic-specific
rebuttal system.

Basically what you're telling me is that, even after we've come this
far,
you won't edit files on your site to engage in cross-linking?  Can I
just
present you with a list of files which I would like to see the crosslink
on, and have you sit down and spend an hour editing them all some day?

There are literally hundreds of files on your site that I would like to
see cross-linked in this manner.  Twelve isn't quite going to do it!

If you want, I'll even download your entire site, make the changes
myself,
and reupload it.  Marc Lemire knows how to do this.  Maybe he and I
could
talk about how this could be done (and yes, there could be checks to be
sure I hadn't corrupted any files except for that one line).

Or, I have a tool which would let you or anyone with unix experience
make
a change like this to thousands of files in a matter of minutes.  Again,
if I could work something out with Marc Lemire, maybe we could get that
installed for you.

Let's not limit ourselves.  There's got to be a way to do this.

> I will not cooperate if you make a personal character assassination page
> your main entry gate because that is not meaningful rebuttal work but
> merely a smear job.

What you call "a smear job," I call meaningful information.  Are you
telling me that even now, after all this work, you will refuse to
participate in this just because I have something about Zundel's UFOs
on that page?

If so, then basically what you're telling me is that I have to remove
that info from our CGI database before you'll participate.  You're
asking me to self-censor.

Please confirm for me whether this is what you're asking.

> When we first started talking about this kind of linking, I visualized a
> program whereby we would have a standard, uniform link at the bottom of
> each new page that would take both friend and foe to refuting arguments.

That's exactly what we now have.

> I
> visualized a database on your end that would sort out arguments by topic
> and lead readers to relevant documents on your site that you want them to
> see.  The navigational part of such a system would be up to you, not us.
> We would merely provide a boilerplate link.
> 
> Was I wrong?

Not at all.  You've got it precisely right.  I'm glad that we had the
same thing in mind back in November, and I'm glad that it's finally
coming to fruition.

Just please tell me whether you are now going to dictate to me the
contents of that database, i.e., whether you are going to refuse to
participate if I have info about Zundel's UFOs in there.



This is a separate issue, but:

> By the way, would you at Nizkor be willing to work with us on getting a
> large, prestigious university to put up a LIVE debate?  You bring your
> intellectual guns, and we bring ours?  It would HAVE be called a "debate",
> however, and be promoted as a debate.

Depends.  What are the penalties for lying, using fraudulent evidence,
refusing to respond to arguments, etc.?

When I last did debate, in high school, I knew that, every debate I
walked into, I would be kicked off the team for the rest of the year
if I used fake evidence or lied about my sources.  That sort of
penalty was the only thing that let a proper debate be conducted.

If Zundel et al. are free to stand up and tell all the lies they
want (e.g. the Lachout document, or whatever _new_ lies they want to
make up on the spot), there's absolutely no point in my standing up
alongside them and lamely trying to argue that his arguments can't
be trusted and his evidence can't be verified.

The whole point of Usenet is that, because "debate" takes place on
a scale of days and weeks rather than seconds, evidence can be
checked.  You can't lie on Usenet without people catching you at it.

What reassurance would I have that Mr. Zundel would not lie?

And don't tell me to just trust him!  :-)

-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/









Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id UAA27613 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 20:18:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id TAA14055; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:20:47 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id TAA14049; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:20:31 -0600
Received: from [198.109.137.30] (clmx30.dial.voyager.net [198.109.137.30]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id UAA27496; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 20:18:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199704030118.UAA27496@vixa.voyager.net>
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 20:21:02 -0500
x-sender: jamie@mail.voyager.net
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997
From: Jamie McCarthy 
To: "E. Zundel" 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

As I reread this:

>I put a link at the bottom of our
>http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/leuchter/report1/leuchtertoc.html
>as you suggested.  Take a look at it.  This is just a test, but it seems to
>me that it does not add anything since it only takes me to the same home
>page under two different URLs.

...it occurs to me that you may be suffering from not doing the HTML code 
correctly.  You put in this code:

   For relentless Holocaust promotion,
   on the other hand, contact
   Nizkor.
   
The Nizkor site may have
   a response
   to this page.

The problem may be that you nested the  tags together.  They don't 
nest.  This may be breaking your browser so that you only see one giant 
link to our home page.

What you want instead is something like:

   For blah blah blah blah, contact
   Nizkor.
   
The Nizkor site may have
   a response
   to this page.

Or, I'd be happy with just:

   
The blah blah blah Nizkor site may have
   a response
   to this page.

Hope this helps.


--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/








Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id MAA12327 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:37:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04860; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:39:54 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:39:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
X-UIDL: 860177357.008
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written
Status: RO

Jamie -

I had a visit yesterday from someone who is computer-knowledgeable who
warned me against allowing a cgi link because it would make us vulnerable
to tampering of our website.  I will have to run this by Mr. Z and check it
out further before I proceed.

Regarding changing the updated URL of your home page at the bottom of every
new document we place, I have no trouble with that and will do it from now
on.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








Received: from veritas.nizkor.org (veritas.nizkor.org [204.57.91.37]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id OAA05831 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:21:57 -0500 (EST)
Received: by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id NAA21409; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:23:59 -0600
Received: from vixa.voyager.net by veritas.nizkor.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)	id NAA21403; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:23:45 -0600
Received: from maple ([207.1.205.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with SMTP id OAA05575; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:20:47 -0500 (EST)
Sender: jamie@voyager.net
Message-ID: <334555DD.64B77667@voyager.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 14:26:21 -0500
From: Jamie McCarthy 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "E. Zundel" 
CC: jamie@veritas.nizkor.org
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I had a visit yesterday from someone who is computer-knowledgeable who
> warned me against allowing a cgi link because it would make us vulnerable
> to tampering of our website.

That is absolute nonsense.  I suspect either:

1)  Your computer-knowledgeable person didn't understand the
question and thought you meant that you were _installing_ a
CGI I'd written on your site.

Yes, _that_ would raise security concerns and of course I
would not expect you to trust me with code on your site.

But that's not what I asked.  I asked for a _link_ to a CGI
which resides on _our_ site.

There is absolutely no way that a link, from a public web page
of yours, to anyplace at all, can raise any security issues
whatsoever.  Much less "tampering" with your site -- that's
preposterous.

So, I think this person may have understood the question you
asked him or her.

There's another hypothesis:

2)  Your computer-knowledgeable person is not all that
computer-knowledgeable.  Just a possibility.

> I will have to run this by Mr. Z and check it
> out further before I proceed.

Please do me the favor of contacting this computer-knowledgeable
person again and clarifying what it is we're proposing to do.
Emphasize that this is a link from a page on your site, to a CGI
which is _running on another site_.

If this person still insists that this is any security risk at
all, s/he doesn't know what s/he is talking about.  Should this
person contradict me, I suggest posting a query to Usenet, say
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi or
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design.  Ask if this is
really a concern.  You should quickly be told that it's not.

> Regarding changing the updated URL of your home page at the bottom of every
> new document we place, I have no trouble with that and will do it from now
> on.

Thank you.

-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/









Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.4/CICNet) with ESMTP id UAA02203 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:27:14 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27818 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written

Jamie, I am not stalling you.  I have written for information on that cgi
matter but have not yet received anything back.  I have also forwarded your
request to Mr. Z to post the UFO book.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/









Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with ESMTP id SAA03745 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:10:06 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA03145 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: irimland@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
From: irimland@cts.com (Ingrid Rimland)
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written

Jamie,

I finally got to discuss the cgi concerns with Mr. Zundel, and he said that
since we have had several warnings not to get involved with cgi, he does
not consider it a good idea.

As I told you previously, I have updated the link to your newer homepage,
and I will from now on use it on all documents I place.  I will NOT put a
general link to your silly UFO page, however, because it has nothing to do
with Holocaust refutation and is simply a diversion tactic not worthy of
our attention.

I have also gone back and updated the link on our 66QA page.  As time
permits, I will change it on our main documents and TOC webpages such as
the Leuchter Report and the Rudolf Report, but I will not go back and
change it on every single document.  It is just too much work.

We have now rebuttals on the 66QAs up to and # 48 (minus # 22 and # 47) and
are working on the rest.  It is much slower than we anticipated, but we are
doing a much more thorough job than we anticipated also.  These pages are
some of the most visited ones on our site.

We still urge Nizkor to work with us on getting a live symposium going,
either on a major university campus or on one of the major network shows.
You bring your "best guns," and we will bring ours - and let the best man
win!  As I said before, it will have to be called a "debate" and promoted
as a debate.

IR


________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/









To: "Ingrid Rimland" 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:08:00 -0500
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written

>I finally got to discuss the cgi concerns with Mr. Zundel, and he said that
>since we have had several warnings not to get involved with cgi, he does
>not consider it a good idea.

But _you_ would not be getting involved with CGI at all!  It would
_all_ be taking place on _Nizkor's_ end!

May I please contact your computer expert directly and explain the
situation to him or her?  I find things usually go much easier when
two techies are talking to each other, rather than going through a
moderator.

>As I told you previously, I have updated the link to your newer homepage,
>and I will from now on use it on all documents I place.

What you also told me previously was, and I quote from November 11th:

   [...] the last communication we had was to the effect that you
   would think about a way to write a program on your end that would
   ONLY necessitate our changing our standard bottom document link
   to Nizkor.  I told you that I would run this proposal by Mr.
   Zundel, but that I personally saw no problem doing it FROM NOW ON
   on every document we place.   [...]
   
   I have since asked Mr. Zundel, and he agreed to this arrangement.

It now appears that, after I went to the trouble of writing this
program for you, Mr. Zundel has retroactively retracted his agreement
with this arrangement.

For the record, I normally charge $50/hr for doing that kind of work,
but this time I made the mistake of offering it for free.

>I will NOT put a
>general link to your silly UFO page, however, because it has nothing to do
>with Holocaust refutation and is simply a diversion tactic not worthy of
>our attention.

Of course not.  That's not even an issue.  That's been a non-issue for
over two weeks, but of course you wouldn't know that because the one
and only time you've ever accessed crosslink-ezundel.cgi was on March
26th.

Since then, I've made quite a few changes, including adding direct
refutations to a half-dozen of your pages just as a sample for you to
see.  You didn't even bother trying to access the CGI at any time
since then, to see what I was talking about!
--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/






Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with ESMTP id SAA28319 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:55:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25067; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written

Jamie,

I spoke to Mr. Zundel this morning and to technical support this afternoon,
and it is absolutely "thumbs down" on cgi.  I did not know what cgi meant
when I first ran it by Mr. Zundel, and neither did he when he agreed to go
along with it - as I remember it, late last year when we first talked about
this.

People are adamant about not fooling around with cgi, given our
antagonistic relationship with Nizkor and the fact that there has been so
much sabotage and interference with our work from "mysterious" quarters
already.

I personally don't feel good about having to go back on my word, but then,
we already have links on every single one of our documents to you - which
is far, far more than you have done for us.  Please feel free to call the
Zundel-Haus directly if you have any further questions.  416-922-9850.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








To: "Ingrid Rimland" 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: Re: crosslink CGI written

>I spoke to Mr. Zundel this morning and to technical support this afternoon,
>and it is absolutely "thumbs down" on cgi.  I did not know what cgi meant
>when I first ran it by Mr. Zundel, and neither did he when he agreed to go
>along with it - as I remember it, late last year when we first talked about
>this.

And guess what?  You _still_ don't know what it means.  If you knew
what it meant, you would realize there is absolutely zero security
risk for you.

I deal with computer security on a daily basis, and when I say
"absolutely zero," I mean "absolutely zero."

But don't take my word for it.  Post a message asking about security
risks of linking to another site's CGI on any newsgroup.  I suggest
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi, comp.security.misc, or maybe
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design.  Are you worried that the
Zionist Occupied Usenet is going to lie to you and try to fool you
into doing something stupid?  Fine, then post under a pseudonym, or
have someone else post for you.  There's no reason you can't do this.

>People are adamant about not fooling around with cgi, given our
>antagonistic relationship with Nizkor and the fact that there has been so
>much sabotage and interference with our work from "mysterious" quarters
>already.

Utter B.S.

>I personally don't feel good about having to go back on my word, but then,
>we already have links on every single one of our documents to you - which
>is far, far more than you have done for us.

That is absolutely not true, for reasons I have explained to you time
and time again.

If someone wants to find our home page, they can type in "Holocaust"
or "Nizkor" at any search engine they like.  We're there.  Your
providing a link to our home page is next to useless.

But finding precise refutations to specific documents on your website
-- that's something that no search engine can accomplish, nor any
other service on the internet.  That is something that only you and I
can do together.

And it would be quite useful, as you have said.  You called it "de
facto debate," on November 11th.  Why are you running from what you
call "de facto debate"?

I have tried to make it as easy for you as humanly possible, and you
have thwarted me at every turn.  I pretty much figured from the
beginning that you would find some way to avoid crosslinking arguments
to rebuttals, because it so quickly reveals the inadequacy of your
claims.  But I certainly did not think that your excuse was going to
be the supposed security problems of adding some _HTML_ to your
webpages!  That is just _too_ obviously transparent.
--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/








Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with ESMTP id QAA15416 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:11:46 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13002 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: jamie@voyager.net
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Reply from Marc Lemire re cgi

Jamie -

you asked to work with Marc Lemire on this cgi business.  Here is what he
said, in part:
>
>If we link to a CGI script on your system, we are totally dependant on YOUR
>system for security, and we are totally dependant on what you want to put in
>that CGI script.
>
>Considering you are storing information files on how to mail bomb people,
>you are not in a very good position to dictate to us what we should do on
>our website.
>
>
>How do we know that the CGI script will not contain a link to the UP Yours
>mail bomb program?
>
>


________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








To: "Ernst Zundel" 
    "Marc Lemire" 
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 20:30:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Reply from Marc Lemire re cgi

Ingrid,

Well, it's nice to see that less than four hours after addressing me
as, quote, "a twerp," you still want to work together.  Now there's
progress.

>Jamie -
>
>you asked to work with Marc Lemire on this cgi business.  Here is what he
>said, in part:
>
>>If we link to a CGI script on your system, we are totally dependant on
>>YOUR system for security, and we are totally dependant on what you want
>>to put in that CGI script.
>>
>>Considering you are storing information files on how to mail bomb people,
>>you are not in a very good position to dictate to us what we should do on
>>our website.
>>
>>How do we know that the CGI script will not contain a link to the UP Yours
>>mail bomb program?

This is Cc'd to Marc because I'm tired of going through the middleman.
 I'll take those three sentences in reverse order.


1.  Your comment about mailbombing is a laugh.  It's an antisemitic
visitor to the Zundelsite who has, thanks to your propaganda,
mailbombed us.  I haven't documented the attacks yet because I haven't
had time, but watch the page at
 for additions in the near
future.  Basically, within the two weeks after Ms. Rimland's March 4th
libel against us, Nizkor volunteers were subjected to four acts of
"electronic terrorism."  One of these attacks is known to be directly
linked to the Zundelsite's webpages.

You know darn well that (a) the info on the Up Yours program is stored
because we want people to know what we got hit with, (b) we have never
mailbombed anyone, never will, and argue strongly against it, and (c)
the Zundelsite now has spread all the same essential information about
how to find mailbomb programs, so you're not in a position to complain
(see ).

In fact, if we wanted to convince people to mailbomb our opponents,
the best way to do it would be to tell them about a mailbombing
program, falsely accuse our opponents of being mailbombers themselves,
and then suggest that our readers "act on" this information.  This is
exactly what you folks did to Nizkor, and -- guess what? -- it worked!
 We got mailbombed by one of your readers!  I assume that's what you
had in mind, Ms. Rimland, when you wrote on March 4th:

   Here is a telling follow-up on electronic terrorism involving none
   other than Nizkor. Be sure to read it carefully - and act on it if
   you are so inclined.                                  ^^^^^^^^^


2.  If you link to _anything_ on our system, you are dependent on what
we put on the page you link to.  Right now you're linking to our
homepage.  What's to stop us from putting a link right at the top of
our homepage, "click here to learn how to mailbomb the Zundelsite"? 
Nothing!  We could do that at any time.

Of course we would never do such a thing!  That goes without saying.

The point is -- you've trusted us for the last year, enough to put
links to our home page on hundreds of your webpages.  Why the sudden
supposed mistrust when it comes to linking to a CGI instead?  You have
to "depend" on us, if you want to call it that, either way.

I am not "dictating" to you what to do.  I am asking you to make the
web a little more interactive.  If you choose to refuse, that's fine. 
But if you choose to refuse and give me a transparent excuse, an
excuse that has no basis in fact, I'm going to continue to argue with
you about it.


3.  Regarding this proposal making the Zundelsite "totally dependant
on [Nizkor] for security" -- that's not the case at all.  I can't
imagine what you mean by that.  This does not impact the security of
your site in any way!

Regarding your being "totally dependant on what [Nizkor puts] in that
CGI script"...OK, we don't appear to be getting anywhere.  Let me make
some concessions.

I will, if it makes you feel any better, give you my personal
guarantee that the database will not contain any links to the Up Yours
mailbomb program.  This is easy to guarantee because there are, in
fact, no such links anywhere on the Nizkor site.  I don't even know
where the Up Yours mailbomb program might reside on the web (though I
suppose I could find out).

What we do have is _documentation_ for that program, so that people
who read about us being mailbombed can also read all the nasty things
the mailbomber's tool says it can do to us -- shut down our system and
so on.  (Our hope is that the next stupid mailbomber will compare the
hype to the reality and decide not to mess with us.)

I may, at my discretion, include a link from your March 4th and March
7th Zgrams to our rebuttal pages at
.  Or from any
other Zundelsite webpages which falsely accuse us of net terrorism and
net abuse.

Furthermore, I will make the CGI's database available to the public,
including the Zundelsite, so that you may examine it and get an
"overview" of all the different combinations of text which may come up
depending on where, on the Zundelsite, you come from.  (In fact that
database is already available at
 but I have not
mentioned that URL to anyone.)  That way, you can browse the database
at any time and determine whether we have links to material you find
objectionable.

Should you find such objectionable material, your recourse will be
either (a) to stop crosslinking or (b) to write a nasty Zgram accusing
us of being filthy ZOG traitors and making reference to the
appropriate sections of the database.

I will even make public the perl code which parses the database, i.e.
the CGI program itself, so you can see there's no hanky-panky going
on.

In short, you'll have full disclosure on everything that's going on
over here on our end of the crosslink.

Does this (mild) act of self-censorship and this act of disclosure
make you feel any better?
--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/








Received: from mh1.cts.com (root@mh1.cts.com [205.163.24.66]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.8.5/CICNet) with ESMTP id UAA08274 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:15:22 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [204.212.157.52] (ezundel.cts.com [204.212.157.52]) by mh1.cts.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA24838; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:18:18 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:18:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: ezundel@mail.cts.com
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Jamie McCarthy 
From: ezundel@cts.com (E. Zundel)
Subject: Re: Reply from Marc Lemire re cgi
Cc: mlemire@interlog.com


Jamie -

Marc is not the first person who told me that cgi is risky for us.  Marc is
the third person.

I first learned about this problem two weeks ago.  Until then, I did not
know what cgi was - I still don't know, for that matter.  But with three
people warning me, why wouldn't I pay heed?

Until further notice, this matter is on hold by Zundel-Team consensus.

IR

________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/








To: "Ernst Zundel" 
    "Marc Lemire" 
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 20:36:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Reply from Marc Lemire re cgi

>Until further notice, this matter is on hold by Zundel-Team consensus.

I will assume this is your last word on the subject until you contact me again.

It's a great pity that the Zundelsite can't commit to being more interactive.
--
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@nizkor.org     Director of Operations, The Nizkor Project
                                          http://www.nizkor.org/

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor