From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 03:32:04 GMT
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rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>[followups trimmed to alt.revisionism only]

>In article <4pnnop$2sd@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
>Matt Giwer  wrote:
>>rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4plqsr$skl@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>Matt Giwer  wrote:
>>
>>>>>>  Of course everyone agrees, even our chemists, that there is no chemical
>>>>>>reaction and that they would be grey not blue.  But then this man saw
>>>>>>blue.  How can we explain an eyewitness seeing something he could not
>>>>>>see?  
>>>>
>>>>>As Mr. Giwer knows Mr. Mazal has documented that one of the forms of
>>>>>Zyklon-B was silica gel impregnated with HCN.  Has Mr. Giwer never seen
>>>>>blue silica gel?
>>>>
>>>>    And everyone also knows that is pure bullshit and that the Zyklon B was
>>>>HCN in a diatomite carrier.  It is all right there on Nizkor.  (Use the
>>>>powerful search engine to find it for yourself.  I have posted it here
>>>>once.)  
>>
>>>Is it Mr. Giwer's assertion that there is only one form of Zyklon B?
>>>Yes or no?
>>
>>      I am asserting there is only one form described in the holocaust
>>stories.  If there is another form, Nizkor has it well hidden.  
>>
>>      If you know of another form used, please post the evidence.  Don't
>>forget the pea sized silica gel.  

>Pressac states in the text accompanying Photo 20, p. 21

>"500 grams can of Zyklon-B without its label, containing small
>bluish pellets of porous silica, known as ERCO, which absorbed
>the hydrocyanic acid together with  5% of a lachrymogenic and
>sternutatory warning agent.  These are the *crystals* of  Zyklon-B.
>Other fixing agents were also used, either a reddish-brown granular
>mass (Diagriess), or disks of ligneous fiber. (Photo 8 which
>Eichmann knew, probably because he had seen them used in the
>disinfestations of the Auschwitz main camp blocks before or at
>the time of his deciding with Hoess on their homicidal use."

>Yes, I know that they are not really crystals.  Neither are opals.
>Nonchemists can be forgiven for the confusion.

        Too bad your pharmacist never read the Degesh publication.  Too bad this
supposed pharmacist never took enough chemistry courses to learn
something covered in high school chemistry.  It appears he is at best an
old time apothecary dealing in healing herbs rather than what we would
call a pharmacist in the US.  

        Think of if.  A pharmacist who never took a chemistry course.  It almost
makes one question his claim to being a pharmacist.  

        In fact, no almost about it.  If it is a pharmacist he would not have
made that mistake.  

>As for size, Mr. Mazal has helped us out a bit:

>
>Silica gel can be purchased in a huge variety of mesh sizes. In
>my (now quite remote) days designing gas chromatographs, we
>used silica gel in a 100 mesh size as a column packing for the
>separation of organic and inorganic gases. 100 mesh is a very
>fine powder.
> 
>Silica gel is also used as a dessicant and is commercially available 
>in mesh sizes from 4 mesh to 28 mesh.  What do "mesh sizes"  mean?

>The U.S. Bureau of Standards defines the following:

>Size 4          =               4.75mm
>Size 6          =               3.35mm
>Size 8          =               2.36mm
>Size 10        =               2.00mm
>Size 12        =               1.70mm

>etc.

        It is unclear what any US standard has to do with the subject but it
would appear by this scale the size would be about 000000 to get up to
pea sized.  

>One can also purchase bulk silica gel in lumps the size of an orange.  

>Giwer can determine this for himself. If he is the "great scientist"
>that he claims to be, he will have access to one of the standard 
>laboratory supply catalogues.  I have, for this particular exercise,
>used  the: _

>THOMAS SCIENTIFIC: Scientific Apparatus and Reagents_
>(609) 467-2000

>The references to silica gel are on pages 561, 1881 and 1882.

        But we also know that the coloration comes from the addition of cobalt
chloride to indicate it is dry.  As it was being soaked in HCN it would
never be water wet and there would be no reason to add the dessication
indicator and therefore it would not appear blue.  But you know that.  

>A curious addition to the silica gel story is that it is also available
>as an "indicating type, changing color from deep blue to pink as
>relative humidity increases from 20% to 60%. 

        As I said, you know the indicator is added when it is used as a
dessicant.  

>

        Thank you for posting the expert opinion of a pharmacist who managed to
prove that crematoria were constructed.  

        However, by now you should have read what I have posted from the long
secret Degesh publication.  And when you read it you will know why the
people claiming to have it would not post it.  It clearly states that
the carrier is either wood pulp or diatomite.  No silica gel at all.  

        There is other information in it.  Most of which points to the reason it
has never be posted, for example the ten hours to air out after it is
used.  





From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Zyklon B.jpg (0/1) Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:23:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <4pqp1p$itq@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
Giwer) wrote:

[snip]

> So read it and weep.  It is not blue on its own and only added if used
> as a desicant.  Therefore all of these claims of blue pellets in all the
> "eyewitness stories are pure fabrication based upon a common
> misconception.  And at best they would only look blue when the HCN was
> gone, not when fresh.  

"cobaltus chloride - CoCl2, CoCl2*6H20 A compound whose anyhydrous form
consists of blue crystals and sublimes when heated, and whose hydrated
form consists of red crystals and melts at 86.8C; both forms are used as
an absorbant for ammonia in dyes and as a catalyst. Also known as cobalt
chloride." (_McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Chemical Terms_, p.95.)

The Giwer-Troll's assumption is, of course, that cobalt chloride was added
to Zyklon B. Was it? What evidence indicates that is was? If it was, what
would its purpose be? A desicant? A catalyst? It is interesting to note
that cyanides are slowly hydrolysed to (CO3)2- and NH3. Would adding
cobalt chloride to Zyklon B retard hydrolysis and increase the shelf like
of Zyklon B? 

Or is there another explination that would account for the blue color? 

> So we are left with fabricated stories from eyewitnesses as always.  

From _Directives for the Use of Prussic Acid (Zyklon) for the
Destruction of Vermin (Disinfestation) Translation of Document No. NI-9912
Office of Chief Counsel of War Crimes_, page 17 of Pressac's _Auschwitz:
Technique and operation of the gas chambers_:

[also at: http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith/incon/zyklon.html] 

"ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess -
Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers." 

Hmmm, "small blue cubes (Erco)."
             ^^^^

Seems like DEGESCH, the manufacturer of Zyklon B disagrees with the
Giwer-Troll. Hardly suprising as the Giwer-Troll is a disagreeable sort of
person, which reminds me: 

Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semitic troller whose only
interest is in slandering Jews and causing fights.  While he can sometimes
sound superficially plausible, he has profusely and consistantly lied
about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying),
refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain
documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to
him), engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, and generally conducted himself with such complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Zyklon B.jpg (0/1) Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:26:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <4pv4ca$pjt@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
(Matt Giwer) wrote:

[snip]

> You continue to miss the point....

On the contrary, I understand the "point" quite well: The point was that
the Giwer-Troll doesn't have the slightest clue if cobalt chloride was
actually added to Zyklon B for some reasons or if the blue color of Erco
was due to some other factor.

That "point" still stands.

[Giwer-Troll teeth gnashing snipped]

The Giwer-Troll is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semitic and racist
troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing fights. 
While he can sometimes sound superficially plausible, he has profusely and
consistantly lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have
been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive
anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, sexism, and has generally conducted himself
with such a complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
and documented evidence of this, please refer to

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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