Summary of this lie:  Matt Giwer accused Ken McVay of saying
something he did not say; I called him a liar and challenged him to
quote Mr. McVay;  he "responded" by emailing me five copies of my
courtesy email copy, without comment.  - Jamie McCarthy, 2 Oct 96



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From: mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 01:32:34 GMT
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On 30 Sep 1996 22:22:41 +0100, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>      Do not bother playing the game.  You have made your case.
>>      What you are missing here is that they would have stolen your material
>>whether or not you ever gave permission and would have continued to do so
>>despite your objections.  

>       I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>area.

        Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original authorization
of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.  Thus he must honor the
withdrawal of that authorization.  

        As for the area being gray, it comes under expected use.  For example an author
may grant the right for his work to be published.  The expectation is that it
will be read and thus he can not claim those who read his book need his
permission to do so.  

        Similarly, in participation one acknowledges the expected use of the materials
posted.  That does not include one sided collection of one's materials.  

>>      They are common criminals.  Realize what you are dealing with.  

>       Are you going to sue, Matt?

        I am not a party to this action.  

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel







Path: news.voyager.net!clmx62.dial.voyager.net!user
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:13:24 -0400
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mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
> >area.
> 
> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original authorization
> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.

Outright lie.  Citation, please.

Posted/emailed.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
 Hate mail will be posted.






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To: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
From: Matt Giwer 
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:31:00 +0000
Message-ID: <19961002233045.AAD27691@LOCALNAME>

At 11:13 PM 10/2/96 +0000, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism,
>alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk)
>
>mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>> >area.
>> 
>> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original
authorization
>> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.
>
>Outright lie.  Citation, please.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
     Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

              http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
          Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for webs)
 http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant advertising)
            http://www2.combase.com/~matt/  (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)









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To: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
From: Matt Giwer 
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:30:53 +0000
Message-ID: <19961002233045.AAB27691@LOCALNAME>

At 11:13 PM 10/2/96 +0000, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism,
>alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk)
>
>mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>> >area.
>> 
>> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original
authorization
>> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.
>
>Outright lie.  Citation, please.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
     Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

              http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
          Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for webs)
 http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant advertising)
            http://www2.combase.com/~matt/  (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)









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To: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
From: Matt Giwer 
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:30:48 +0000
Message-ID: <19961002233045.AAA27691@LOCALNAME>

At 11:13 PM 10/2/96 +0000, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism,
>alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk)
>
>mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>> >area.
>> 
>> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original
authorization
>> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.
>
>Outright lie.  Citation, please.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
     Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

              http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
          Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for webs)
 http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant advertising)
            http://www2.combase.com/~matt/  (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)









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To: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
From: Matt Giwer 
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:30:57 +0000
Message-ID: <19961002233045.AAC27691@LOCALNAME>

At 11:13 PM 10/2/96 +0000, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism,
>alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk)
>
>mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>> >area.
>> 
>> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original
authorization
>> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.
>
>Outright lie.  Citation, please.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
     Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

              http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
          Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for webs)
 http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant advertising)
            http://www2.combase.com/~matt/  (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)









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To: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
From: Matt Giwer 
Subject: Re: Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:31:03 +0000
Message-ID: <19961002233045.AAE27691@LOCALNAME>

At 11:13 PM 10/2/96 +0000, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism,
>alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk)
>
>mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>> >I think that the status of copyright of postings is still a very gray
>> >area.
>> 
>> Even if it is, McVay has posted that he relied upon the original
authorization
>> of Schroedel to carry them in the first place.
>
>Outright lie.  Citation, please.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
     Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

              http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
          Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for webs)
 http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant advertising)
            http://www2.combase.com/~matt/  (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)








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From: mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Re Schoedel states his case
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:19:20 GMT
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On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:51:08 -0300, Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>>         More than that your constant protests are a source of amusement if not sexual
>> arousal for them.  You are giving them satisfaction by doing so.  Your best bet
>> is to take up hacking and see if you can cease the harm being deliberately done
>> to you in that manner.

>Oh oh.  Matt went and did it again.

>Section 430 of the Criminal Code of Canada states:

>(1.1) Every one who commits mischief who willfully 

>(a) destroy or alters data; 

        In this case Nizkor has stipulated that it is the property of Schroedel 

>(b) renders data meaningless, useless or ineffective; 

>(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use of data; or 

        Nizkor has stipulated that its use is unlawful.  

>(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful
>use 
>    of data or denies access to data to an person who is entitled to
>access thereto. 

        And Nizkor has stipulated it is not entitled to access to the data.  

        As you can see this law is inapplicable.        

>(5) Everyone who commits mischief in relation to data 

>(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a
>term not 
>    exceeding ten years; or 

>(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. 

>That would apply to anyone caught hacking Nizkor.  However, in
>Mattie-poo's case
>the applicable section is 22 of the Code, "Person Counselling Offense". 
>By telling
>someone they should commit an illegal act Matt has himself committed a
>crime 
>under Canadian law.  As the offense, if it occurred, is directed against
>a Canadian
>citizen and a computer residing in Canada, the law applies.

        If the hacker only deals with the material that Nizkor has stipulated is his and
under his control then, as you can see, there would be no crime.  

        And I suggest that some day you learn the difference between, I advise you, and,
you would be better advised.  There is a whole world of difference.     



=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel






Path: news.voyager.net!clmx21.dial.voyager.net!user
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: Re Schoedel states his case
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mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

> In this case Nizkor has stipulated that it is the property of Schroedel 

Outright lie.  Document or retract.

> Nizkor has stipulated that its use is unlawful.  

Outright lie.  Document or retract.

> And Nizkor has stipulated it is not entitled to access to the data.  

Outright lie.  Document or retract.

Posted;  not emailed because when I emailed him earlier today requesting
comment, Mr. Giwer emailed me back five copies of my email, sans comment.

-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
 Hate mail will be posted.

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