Newsgroups: alt.revisionism From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit Message-ID:Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31BA59CC.1A03@kaiwan.com> <4pe105$i75@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:59:02 GMT Lines: 23 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: [To Rich Green] # If you knew what you were talking about you would know that # toxicity is a product of quantity and time. Ok. So how long do you suggest it would require, say, for 50 percent of the HCN to evaporate from the Zyklon at the following temperatures: 1) 20 C. 2) O C. 3) -20 C. (C = Celsius). -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:58:36 GMT Organization: images incarnate Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31BA59CC.1A03@kaiwan.com> <4pe105$i75@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-35.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jun 11 6:01:02 PM PDT 1996 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: >[To Rich Green] ># If you knew what you were talking about you would know that ># toxicity is a product of quantity and time. >Ok. So how long do you suggest it would require, say, for 50 percent >of the HCN to evaporate from the Zyklon at the following temperatures: >1) 20 C. >2) O C. >3) -20 C. This can not be determined save by measurement as the carrier (diatomite) would have a significant impact upon the time due to surface cooling and thermal conductivity considerations. It is not clear that pure HCN would result in a reasonable first cut. (And beyond that, I still haven't found the box where I hid my reference material for the move.) The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6 hours for 30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows can be opened and the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about the range of temperature usage short of winter in an unheated building. Newsgroups: alt.revisionism From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:32:33 GMT Lines: 22 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: [About the evaporation period of the HCN from Zyklon] # The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6 # hours for 30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows # can be opened and the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about # the range of temperature usage short of winter in an unheated building. You're apparently way, way off. Dr. Roessler was kind enough to send me a 1941 paper about the evaporation period, at temperatures far lower than those you mention. I'll soon have the whole thing translated and post it. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Lueftl's dishonesty and cross-linking Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:13:01 -0400 Organization: Absence Software Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4pf0o6$d3n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4pl4se$7ni@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vixa.voyager.net dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > # The measurements I can come up with are 32 hours for 5C and 6 > # hours for 30C for complete outgassing (the time when the windows > # can be opened and the stuff safely disposed of) which covers about > # the range of temperature usage short of winter in an unheated > # building. > > You're apparently way, way off. More importantly, this person is quoting Lueftl, who ripped those figures from their context and cited them dishonestly. The "six to 32 hours" figure comes from the Degesch manual, but it refers _only_ to the total exposure time required for lice. Since the metabolism of lice, like all cold-blooded creatures, is much slower at 5 C than at 30 C, the exposure time is necessarily longer. Lueftl, utilizing his great distortional power granted by the mantle of revisionism, takes the recommended exposure times and the temperatures, and cites them as though those are the outgassing times and temperatures. They're not _quite_ the same thing. Last I checked, louse metabolism didn't have _much_ to do with Zyklon desorption. Completely and utterly dishonest. And that is the _main_point_ of his much-lauded "Lueftl Report." He spends twenty-three paragraphs on Zyklon and homicidal gassings, climaxing with his conclusion: What is _the_ evidence against such a procedure? Zyklon B! and This is _the_ flaw in the Holocaust literature! (Emphasis added.) This information has been presented on Nizkor for the past six months, to the day, and I have posted its URL quite frequently to this newsgroup. That URL again, for those who haven't seen it: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/features/qar/qar32.html It might be interesting to hear this person try to explain how his "measurements" happen to coincide with Lueftl's fraudulently-lifted figures. I'm going to email this posting to Greg Raven, since he presents the Lueftl Report on his IHR web site. We cross-link from our analysis to his web page. We think maybe he should cross-link back to us. Seems like a fair request to me. But Mr. Raven has stated in the past that he disagrees, that he thinks linking related documents is "illogical": http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/r/raven.greg/raven-refuses-links.reply.01 A cynic might suggest that it is not so much illogical as embarrassing. Especially when one's web site presents a much-lauded report whose main point turns out to be completely and utterly dishonest. I know _I_ would be embarrassed if I had endorsed this charlatan: http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p391_Lueftl.html Any further comment on this matter, Mr. Raven? Posted; emailed to Mr. Raven and the Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust (which will doubtless consider me impudent and rude for daring to ask Mr. Raven if he has any further comment). -- Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email to be in the public domain. I speak only for myself.
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