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From t08o@unb.ca Wed Aug 28 23:16:04 PDT 1996
Article: 60695 of alt.revisionism
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From: Keith Morrison 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: even more types of specia
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:30:26 -0300
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 174
Message-ID: <3224BA72.5BE0@unb.ca>
References: <4vg88c$e4l@fountain.mindlink.net> <8C6F54B.08110144D4.uuout@almac.co.uk> <4vpepg$bep@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <32209149.7FC1@unb.ca> <4vrk4p$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <32220723.5A6@unb.ca> <5016nb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:

> >>         Would you like to try again with better than an unsourced report?
> 
> >Sure.  Mind you, you might want to try not cutting out the *other* two
> >references I made so you can pretend they were not there because that
> >makes you look like an idiot.
> 
>         I cut nothing.

Liar liar pants on fire.  This is the original post, verbatim, from
DejaNews.

=====begin text=====

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=9291675&server=
         dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=841267399.19741&hitnum=3

Subject:      Re: even more types of specia
From:         Keith Morrison 
Date:         1996/08/25
Message-Id:   <32209149.7FC1@unb.ca>
References:   <4vg88c$e4l@fountain.mindlink.net> <8C6F54B.08110144D4.uuout@almac.co.uk> <4vpepg$bep@sjx-Ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism
X-Mailer:     Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c)


Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Except that HCN was never in the CW arsenal of any country in the
> world and still in not.
> 
>         Beyond that, nice try.

Funny, then, that it has its own STANAG code (AC).  Funny it's listed
in all standard texts on chemical weapons.  Just because it hasn't
been stockpiled doesn't mean they haven't considered using it.

  http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm

  Hydrogen cyanide is usually included among the CW agents causing 
  general poisoning. There is no confirmed information on this substance 
  being used in chemical warfare. However, it has been reported that 
  hydrogen cyanide was used by Iraq in the war against Iran and against 
  the Kurds in northern Iraq during the 1980's. Hydrogen cyanide has 
  high toxicity and in sufficient concentrations it rapidly leads to 
  death. During the Second World War, a form of hydrogen cyanide 
  (Zyklon B) was used in the Nazi gas chambers. 

(Note that there is no confirmed report of nerve gasses being used in
chemical warfare either but we know they have them in the inventories.)

  http://www.brad.ac.uk/test/cbw/cbw/1023.html

  Report on the Department of Defence's Safety Programs for Chemical 
  and Biological Warfare Research

  Date
   May 11, 1988 

  Subject
   Comments: Majority Staff Report faults DOD's safety management in 
   Chemical and Biological Warfare Research Program: report found 
   "serious failings" in DOD's management of safety controls in 
   DOD-sponsored chemical and biological warfare researach (CBW), 
   "including inadequate regulations, lax safety enforcement and documented 
   safety lapses." The report states that "the safety risks begin with 
   the agents themselves. They are highly dangerous, involving many of 
   the most deadly substances known. Hydrogen cyanide and certain snake 
   venoms, for example, can kill a human being in minutes. Some BW agents, 
   despite years of research, produce illnesses with no known cure. ...[T]he
   escape of even microorganisms must be prevented. In addition to dangerous 
   substances, risky experiments, and new technologies, the report stresses, 
   still another factor has increased the risk of CBW research -- DOD's 
   rapid expansion of the program. The staff report suggests that DOD is not 
   on top of the safety issue, particularly with regard to management of 
   research involving biological warfare agents. Congress needs to examine 
   the quality and extent of DOD's safety program in the CBW research area 
   and fill in any holes, so that we can be confident that this research is 
   being done in the safest possible environment. The Subcommittee's 
   investigation will include an analysis of the DOD's upcoming report. 

Funny that the United States Department of Defense would do any research
on hydrogen cyanide if there was no possibility of it ever being used.

  http://the-tech.mit.edu/V112/N64/iran.64w.html

  By R. Jeffrey Smith and Peter Behr

  The Washington Post

  WASHINGTON

  The Bush administration has decided not to authorize the sale to Iran of a 
  large chemical plant that had aroused controversy within the government, 
  White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said Tuesday. 

  Fitzwater's statement appeared to lay the matter to rest at least for the
  next two weeks, but left unclear whether the plant's manufacturer, BP Chemical, 
  would be permitted to renew its application under the Clinton administration. 

  A spokesman for BP Chemical Tuesday defended the proposed sale and said the 
  company had not been informed by any government agency that its application 
  for an export license had been officially denied. The export had aroused 
  criticism because the plant's manufacturing process would produce hydrogen cyanide, 
  a gas that has been used as a chemical weapon. 

Nice try, Giwer.

=====end text=====


The following is your reply, again verbatim from DejaNews:


======begin text=====

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=9396299&server=
        dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=841267581.20942&hitnum=0

Subject:      Re: even more types of specia
From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
Date:         1996/08/26
Message-Id:   <4vrk4p$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
References:   <4vg88c$e4l@fountain.mindlink.net> <8C6F54B.08110144D4.uuout@almac.co.uk> <4vpepg$bep@sjx-Ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
<32209149.7FC1@unb.ca>
Organization: images incarnate
X-Netcom-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:35:53 AM PDT 1996
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism


On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:45:45 -0300, Keith Morrison 
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>>         Except that HCN was never in the CW arsenal of any country in the
>> world and still in not.
>> 
>>         Beyond that, nice try.

>Funny, then, that it has its own STANAG code (AC).  Funny it's listed
>in all standard texts on chemical weapons.  Just because it hasn't
>been stockpiled doesn't mean they haven't considered using it.

>  http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm

>  Hydrogen cyanide is usually included among the CW agents causing 
>  general poisoning. There is no confirmed information on this substance 
>  being used in chemical warfare. However, it has been reported that 
>  hydrogen cyanide was used by Iraq in the war against Iran and against 
>  the Kurds in northern Iraq during the 1980's. Hydrogen cyanide has 
>  high toxicity and in sufficient concentrations it rapidly leads to 
>  death. During the Second World War, a form of hydrogen cyanide 
>  (Zyklon B) was used in the Nazi gas chambers. 

        That is what I said.  No evidence that is was ever in any nation's
arsenal.  

        Would you like to try again with better than an unsourced report?  


=====end text=====

Giwer, why *do* you continue to lie about such easily verifiable things.
You cut the two references I posted after the one you replied to.  What
possible benefit is it to you lying so blatantly?

--
Keith Morrison
t08o@Unb.ca



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