Archive/File: people/g/gritz.bo gritz.lds

From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce Fri Dec  4 07:59:38 PST 1992
Article: 7774 of alt.conspiracy
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From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec3.054400.6335@cs.ucla.edu>
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---------------  FORWARDED POSTING  -----------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: Dan Yurman 
Subject: Re: more info on the fascist Populist P
Message-ID: <1992Dec2.234804.16972@mont.cs.missouri.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 23:48:04 GMT

Dateline Salt Lake City, Utah

Mormon Church Officials are warning their members to avoid the
teachings of James "Bo" Gritz on the subject of the impending
collapse of the US government and the 2nd Coming of Christ.
Church officals in Salt Lake City and Idaho Falls, Idaho, said
that members should avoid "crusaders and other kooky types."
This is a quote from an article appearing in the Idaho Falls
Post Register which quotes articles appearing in the Salt Lake
City Tribune.  Gritz claims to be a Mormon and has been quoted
as indicating he joined the church in 1984.

Gritz is planning to move to Idaho to run for Governor.  He
got about 10,000 vites in Idaho in the Presidential election,
of which 4,000 were in the 10 county region surrounding Idaho
Falls.  The Idaho Falls Post Register reports that Gritz may
make his home in St. Anthony, Idaho, a farming and forestry
based community about 30 miles north of Idaho Falls.

Dan Yurman, Idaho Falls, ID
dyurman@igc.apc.org

---------------  END OF FORWARDED POSTING  -----------------------



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!lion Sat Dec  5 00:24:28 PST 1992
Article: 7813 of alt.conspiracy
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From: lion@netcom.com (carl loeber)
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec4.023515.24288@netcom.com>
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I read the report that Bo Gritz was warned, reported in the Merc- News
San Jose, from the Salt Lake Tribune.

It seems the story is not accurate, though Bo was warned not to reveal
what he was previously told to keep secret about the activities of
a person in high office of government which took place in 1988.

I am not familiar with his teachings about the fall of the US govt,
and the second coming of Christ, I have read material, and seen
interviews he has produced, and heard it.  However, such scenerios,
are more or less, deductions of standard LDS as well as any New Test
ament dogma or revelation.  The church does not teach specifics, or 
opinion on such as these but Mormons for the past hundred years have
written their feelings about them, and they are widely available.

The question is: so what?

The LDS church also encourages all people to take an active part in the 
civic and political affairs of their communities and nations, and 
refrains from telling people how to think about political issues, unless
it happens to be a clearly moral issue.  (I admit most things could be viewed as such, but they are not by the church).  

It seems hard to understand a possible critisism of Bo by the chuch
unless he were to do something immoral or dishonest.  Or unless for
some extraordinary reason, a church official had special and clear
knowledge that Bo was about to do something dangerous to his own or the 
people's welfare.




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley Sat Dec  5 11:54:29 PST 1992
Article: 7830 of alt.conspiracy
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From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth Bradley)
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec4.213002.6079@scic.intel.com>
Organization: Intel Corporation
References: <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu>
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1992 21:30:02 GMT
Lines: 25

In article <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>groups having racist and/or anti-semetic views. In fact its opening 
>lines provide a summary of the analytical method applied throughout.
>"Lie down with dogs - get up with fleas". In other words, guilt by
>association.
>Do you have anything better than this to support your claim?

Gritz is a politician - not some John Doe off of the street.  If you
feel that the nature of the organizations he has associated himself
with have no bearing whatsoever on his own views, then the only
other explanation that makes sense is that he knows nothing of the
nature of those organizations, and also that he is tremendously naive
politically.  A politician is known by the company he keeps.  Would
a conservative republican have much credibility if he was known 
to associate with the American Communist Party?  To deny that Gritz
favors the policies of the extremist groups he has associated himself
with smacks of apologetics, IMHO.
-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!f_gautjw Sat Dec  5 22:24:02 PST 1992
Article: 7852 of alt.conspiracy
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From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec5.094430.2050@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
Date: 5 Dec 92 09:44:30 CST
References: <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu> <1992Dec4.213002.6079@scic.intel.com>
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
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In article <1992Dec4.213002.6079@scic.intel.com>, sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth Bradley) writes:
> In article <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>>groups having racist and/or anti-semetic views. In fact its opening 
>>lines provide a summary of the analytical method applied throughout.
>>"Lie down with dogs - get up with fleas". In other words, guilt by
>>association.
>>Do you have anything better than this to support your claim?
> 
> Gritz is a politician - not some John Doe off of the street.  If you
> feel that the nature of the organizations he has associated himself
> with have no bearing whatsoever on his own views, then the only
> other explanation that makes sense is that he knows nothing of the
> nature of those organizations, and also that he is tremendously naive
> politically.  A politician is known by the company he keeps.  Would
> a conservative republican have much credibility if he was known 
> to associate with the American Communist Party?  To deny that Gritz
> favors the policies of the extremist groups he has associated himself
> with smacks of apologetics, IMHO.

In other words, you don't have any specifics either.

-Joe Gaut


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!torn!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aq817 Sat Dec  5 22:25:00 PST 1992
Article: 7849 of alt.conspiracy
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From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Date: 5 Dec 1992 10:16:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth Bradley) writes:

>In article <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu 
>(Steve Crocker) writes:

>>groups having racist and/or anti-semetic views. In fact its opening 
>>lines provide a summary of the analytical method applied throughout.
>>"Lie down with dogs - get up with fleas". In other words, guilt by
>>association.
>>Do you have anything better than this to support your claim?

>Gritz is a politician - not some John Doe off of the street.  If you
>feel that the nature of the organizations he has associated himself
>with have no bearing whatsoever on his own views, then the only

The organiztions one associates with may or may not indicate one's
views. By themselves, they are certainly not valid evidence of these
views.

>other explanation that makes sense is that he knows nothing of the
>nature of those organizations, and also that he is tremendously naive
>politically.  A politician is known by the company he keeps.  Would
>a conservative republican have much credibility if he was known 
>to associate with the American Communist Party?  To deny that Gritz
>favors the policies of the extremist groups he has associated himself
>with smacks of apologetics, IMHO.

Seth, all that you are really saying here is that guilt by association 
is a commonly accepted standard within politics today. Sad but true. 
However that doesn't make it right. The fact of the matter is that a 
politician or political activist, by reason of the necessity to form
alliances and build coalitions, is MORE likely, not less, than the rest
of us to find themself in association with those whose views they do 
not share. ("Politics make strange bedfellows") In the anti-war movement, 
for example, liberals marched alongside Maoists, Stalinists, Trotskyists, 
and Anarchists with a common purpose. How many of the young radicals who 
went "Clean for Gene" really supported Gene McCarthy's brand of liberalism?
Rather, they worked for him as the way they saw to get a job done - the 
job of stopping the war. Now Col. Gritz is trying to get a job done - the
restoration of Constitutional government and "Christian" (more accurately
Judeao-Christian) values in the U.S. To do this he is going to have to
mobilize support from diverse constituencies, who may hold racist views
as well as endorsing Gritz's agenda. 

To give a personal example, I endorse the work of the Christic Institute
in exposing the "secret government" and deplore the manner in which a 
corrupt court has used excessive fines to silence them. Christic also 
happens to oppose the spread of nuclear power. My own view is that 
opposition to nuclear power is the practical equivalent of advocating 
genocide, given the pressing need for this and related technologies to 
help alleviate the plight of the third world. Should anyone assume that 
because I speak well of Christic and support their activities in certain 
areas that I must therefore share their anti-nuclear views? How dumb! 
But this is EXACTLY the kind of argument the P.A.R.T. brief makes with 
respect to Gritz and HIS alliances.

-Steve


From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce Sat Dec  5 22:25:14 PST 1992
Article: 7854 of alt.conspiracy
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From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec5.155150.7947@cs.ucla.edu>
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In article <1fpvi4INNjek@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>job of stopping the war. Now Col. Gritz is trying to get a job done - the
>restoration of Constitutional government and "Christian" (more accurately
>Judeao-Christian) values in the U.S. To do this he is going to have to
>mobilize support from diverse constituencies, who may hold racist views
>as well as endorsing Gritz's agenda. 

Why do you think "Judeo-Christian" is more accurate than "Christian"
in the context of Bo Gritz?

-- Brad Pierce --



From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!reykja Mon Dec  7 07:24:19 PST 1992
Article: 7897 of alt.conspiracy
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From: reykja@col.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Date: 7 Dec 1992 10:30:58 GMT
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lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:
> 
> I am not familiar with his teachings about the fall of the US govt,
> and the second coming of Christ, I have read material, and seen
> interviews he has produced, and heard it.  However, such scenerios,
> are more or less, deductions of standard LDS as well as any New Test
> ament dogma or revelation.  The church does not teach specifics, or 
> opinion on such as these but Mormons for the past hundred years have
> written their feelings about them, and they are widely available.
> 
AS much as I have read about the Mormons, there is no evidence that 
they teach that White people are the true chosen people of God, tghe
Israelites, nor do they teach that Jews are the spawn of Satan -- such
as is taught by Identity. 

> The question is: so what?
> 
The 'what' is the potential for violence and hate spread by thee
people. I think there is enough evidence that Identity is dangerous. 
Reference the murder of Alan Berg (committed by David Lane and 
Bruce Pierce -- both followers of Identity, the murder of an Ethipian
man by racial skinheads -- followers of Identity -- the bombing
of a gay bar by Denver Parmenter -- a member of the Order and 
follower of Identity, an armored truck robbery by Robert Mathews and
company -- all members of The Order and followers of Identity. 

The Mormon Church is correct to condemn Gritz and the whole Identity
bunch. Hate *is* a moral issue. 


> The LDS church also encourages all people to take an active part in the 
> civic and political affairs of their communities and nations, and 
> refrains from telling people how to think about political issues, unless

And if I am not mistaken, the Doctrine and Covenants (I may be mistaken
about this..) states that followers of LDS should respect and follow
the laws of the government of the country in which they live. 


> it happens to be a clearly moral issue.  (I admit most things could be viewed as such, but they are not by the church).  
> 
I think they would view hate as a moral issue. I am not Mormon but I 
would be willing to bet that if I called the bishop, he would definitely
tell me that hate  is not morally neutral.


> It seems hard to understand a possible critisism of Bo by the chuch
> unless he were to do something immoral or dishonest.  Or unless for
> some extraordinary reason, a church official had special and clear

!!!!!! His association with Pete Peters, Jack Mohr, Tom Metzger!!!!
What do you think they are doing --playing poker?!

Please don't blow Identity or the White Separatist movement off as a 
bunch of koo-koos. They are truly, truly dangerous. 

By any means possible. That is what they have stated as their goal. 




From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!cooper Mon Dec  7 07:24:59 PST 1992
Article: 7895 of alt.conspiracy
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From: cooper@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (Ralph 'Hairy' Moonen)
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Message-ID: <1992Dec7.085408.13555@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
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In article <1992Dec4.194419.22155@news.ysu.edu>, ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
> What evidence have you seen that Gritz qualifies. The long report
> from P.A.R.T. posted here shows only that Gritz has associated with
> groups having racist and/or anti-semetic views. In fact its opening 
> lines provide a summary of the analytical method applied throughout.
> "Lie down with dogs - get up with fleas". In other words, guilt by
> association.
> Do you have anything better than this to support your claim?

That, and a couple of pamphlet's I've seen posted here from him and about
him. I just wish to make the observation that you claim that "guilt by
association" is not valid. Well, I claim otherwise. If a politician
associates with and becomes a member of a certain group, you can reasonably
belive he supports those causes. Don't tell me that he is no longer a member
and has changed his ways, I don't go for that in this case. Yes, I think
in this case he not only got up with fleas, but also transmogryphied into
one. 

--Ralph

From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!caen!uunet!olivea!sgigate!sgi!cdp!cberlet Wed Dec  9 08:36:27 PST 1992
Article: 7999 of alt.conspiracy
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From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn again
Message-ID: <1299600106@igc.apc.org>
Date: 9 Dec 92 03:15:00 GMT
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Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Dec  8 19:15:00 1992



Memo from Chip Berlet
Re: Gritz and Duke

>In article , 
>"David A. Byler" cmu.edu> writes:
>>  We are given the following news by Brad Pierce:
>> 
>>>     Yet four years ago, Bo Gritz (rhymes with Knights)
>>>accepted a nomination to run for Vice-President of the United
>>>States on a ticket with "former" Ku Klux Klan grand dragon
>>>David Duke, from the Populist Party.....
>> 
>> If the article starts off with a lie, why should we trust the rest of
>> it?  Bo Gritz quit the Populist Party ticket after Duke was nominated as
>> the Presidential hopeful.  Perhaps, when these folks get their facts
>> straight for once, people might begin to take them seriously.
>> 
>> Andy Byler
>> 
>
>I think the real fleas Gritz has had to put up with are
>found in such disinformation about him that you [Byler] put into
>proper focus.  
>
>Some while back I ran a Duke/Gritz word check on
>a number of journals and never found their names connected which
>made me quite suspicious of this accusation concerning him.  The
>same check yielded quite a bit about either person separately.  I
>also asked on the net if anyone in networld had ever seen their
>names on the ballot together and got absolutely no response.  I
>despise seeing decent patriots who have had their lives on the line
>more than once maligned with such careless abandon.  Talk about
>hate speech...
>
>-Joe Gaut

Congratulations, Joe and Andy, for demonstrating that you are 
both willing to call persons with whom you disagree liars and 
disinformation spreaders while not getting your own facts
straight.

Gritz posed for pictures shaking hands with Duke after accepting the
nomination of the Populist Party as Duke's 1988 first vice-presidential
running mate. The  newspaper ran the photo along with an
interview where Gritz acknowledges he had heard about Duke's
past affiliations, but now considered him a fine pro-American.

Some weeks later, Gritz dropped off the ticket to run for local
office. It was a very long time before Gritz began to claim that
he dropped off the 1988 Populist party ticket because of Duke's
nomination. Given the photo and the interview, the claim that Gritz
dropped off the ticket as soon as he learned of Duke's nomination
is a complete fabrication.

I will send a photocopy of the Duke/Gritz photo to anyone 
who sends a stamped, self-addressed business envelope 
to my office:

Political Research Associates
678 Mass. Ave., #712 
Cambridge, MA 02139

Even "Readers Digest" has called the Populist party a 
haven for neo-Nazis and ex-klansmen. 

The Populist Party was founded by Hitler apologist Willis Carto. 

Bo Gritz is the point man in an effort to build a coalition of 
white supremacists, anti-Jewish bigots, neo-fascists, and 
paranoid gun nuts.

Gritz promotes the ideas of the Christian Identity movement, 
although he sometimes claims he is not a follower of Identity. 

Gritz has repeatedly praised and participated in Christian
Identity events, here are excerpts from his speech at a Christian
Identity meeting hosted by Identity preacher Pete Peters, a raving
anti-Jewish bigot:

Gritz:
   "I believe that the Identity Christian Movement will continue
to grow in this nation until it is able to stand self-sufficient
in spite of the government....Basically the Zionists are taking
over and we Christians are being formed into small pockets that
have to go to camps twice a year to learn what's going on....The
enemy you face today is a satanic overthrow where he would change
the United States of America, a nation under God, into USA
incorporated with King George as chariman of the board, and a
Zionist group that would rule over us as long as satan might be on
earth....I am telling you that he (God) has given us all that we
need. He's given us the likes of Pete Peters, he's given us the
likes of the Identity Christian movement."
    -Source, , Center for Democratic Renewal
    (Atlanta), December
1991, page 19.

An aide to Gritz told one Idaho newspaper that Gritz combined 
elements of Christian Identity, Mormonism and the Baptist faith.

>From The Idaho Falls , September 13, 1992 (page
B6):
 "[Our] editorial should have said that Gritz adheres to less
strident views of the Christian Identity movement. There are a
number of Christian Identity Churches. A national spokesman for
Gritz, Jack McLamb, has told Associated Press that Gritz adheres
to a blend of Christian Identity, Baptist, and LDS [Mormon]
beliefs. Whether he is a member of the LDS Church or not has not
been able to be confirmed despite repeated calls to a Gritz number
identified by an answering machine as the Center for Action. -
Editor."

Gritz: "Eight Jewish families virtually control the entire
FED--only three are American jews [sic]." "Called to Serve," page
609.

In a speech at Identity pastor Pete Peter's Colorado headquarters,
Gritz acknowledged that Peters had helped publish and distribute his 
book "Called to Serve", which is used to promote the Gritz 
presidential campaign. 

Christian Identity is a religion that sees Jews as agents of 
Satan and considers African-Americans to be sub-human. Identity 
claims the United States is the real promised land and white 
Christians are the real children of Israel. Many proponents of 
Christian Identity seek to overthrow the "Zionist 
Occupational Government" in Washington, D.C. and establish an 
exclusively white Christian nation, or at least seize the states 
of the pacific northwest. 

Gritz primarily seeks to build networks of support in reactionary 
and far-right circles. He made a presentation on "MIA/POW & 
Government Drug Dealers" at the Third Christian Heritage 
National Conference held in November of 1990 in Florida. Among 
other featured speakers were Bob Weems, Pete Peters, Col. Jack 
Mohr and other persons who promote Christian Identity. Also 
speaking were Eustace Mullins, who provided the "Total 
Conspiracy Update," and A.J. Barker, national chairman of the 
Populist Party.

Gritz claims he opposes racism and is trying to clean up the 
Populist Party. But Gritz continuously misrepresents the nature 
of the Populist Party and its ongoing leadership. An article in 
the September 1992 "Soldier of Fortune" magazine notes: 

"Gritz also said he does not know Jerry Pope, chairman of 
Kentucky's Populist Party. Pope was once a prominent figure in 
the National States Rights Party founded by racist J.B. Stoner, 
who was imprisoned for the deaths of black children in the 
bombing of a Sunday school class in Birmingham, Alabama." 
Pope and Gritz are both listed as being on the Board of Advisers 
to the Populist Action Committee run by Liberty Lobby.

The Populist Party began promoting Gritz for President in the 
summer of 1991. The banner headline in the June, 1991 issue of 
"The Populist Observer: Voice of the Populist Party" was 
"Groundswell Building For Gritz Presidential Run." Gritz 
had addressed the Populist Party national convention in May 1991. 
The following month, "The Populist Observer" ran another banner 
headline proclaiming: "Gritz Populist Party Candidacy for 
President Official!"

In a memo sent to Populist Party regulars by Chair Don Wassall, 
and signed by 11 Populist Party Executive Committee members, 
Wassall wrote that "We are reaching out to new people, and we 
have a tremendous presidential candidate in Bo Gritz." 
Campaign flyers mailed from the Populist Party headquarters are 
headlined "Bo Gritz for President...Vote Populist Party." 

In the June, 1991 issue of "The Populist Observer", Gritz wrote, 
"I call upon you as Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, 
Independent, right, left, conservative, liberal, et.al., to UNITE 
AS POPULISTS [emphasis in original] until we have our nation 
firmly back on her feet." Gritz told the audience at a July, 
1991 meeting in Palo Alto, California that they should reach out 
and attempt to recruit persons from the left. 

While Willis Carto was one of the key founders of the Populist 
Party, the Party is now under the control of Don Wassall who is 
feuding with Willis Carto and the Liberty Lobby over control of 
the movement. According to the May 1992 issue of "The Monitor", 
"Wassall's Populist Party has been forced to take a back seat 
as Gritz has cobbled together his own organization, the America 
First! Coalition."

But as the Monitor explains, "Gritz's standard stump speech 
is an amalgam of themes popular among white supremacists and 
others on the far right: the Federal Reserve System is 
unconstitutional and should be abolished and a vast conspiracy of 
"internationalists" are taking over the world."

Gritz was heavily promoted by the Carto forces as early as the 
summer of 1987 when Gritz was holding press conferences charging 
that key U.S. government officials were the "biggest 
customers" of the world's leading "drug lord," Gen. 
Khun Sa of Burma. [See: Valentine, Paul, "Media Blacks Out Drug 
Story: `Bo' Gritz Charges Conspiracy", "The Spotlight", July 
13, 1987, p. 1.]

In a January 3, 1992 letter to Willis Carto, Gritz urged the 
warring factions in the Populist Party to cease their bickering, 
and told Carto he was "seeking cooperation between you and 
your former allies." He also wrote "During my first 
meeting with Don and Phil as a Populist candidate, I expressed 
utmost concern over accountability of funds," thus clearly 
acknowledging that he considered himself the 1992 Populist Party 
candidate.

-Chip Berlet

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