Archive/File: holocaust/deniers kleim.0694
Last-Modified: 1994/07/08

From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Thu Jun  2 19:45:45 PDT 1994
Article: 6632 of alt.skinheads
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Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: FAQ: WHITE POWER
Message-ID: <1994Jun1.143940.10873@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 1 Jun 94 14:39:39 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References:   
 <1994May30.045645.64799@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <1994May22.,
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 113

Len Bush replies to Jason's response to Elissa Feit:

LB: of course there are a variety of first nations that would contest your
LB: claiming the united states and canada as homelands.  

They can contest our claim all they want.  The fact remains that Aryans made 
this once desolate frontier into the (still) mighty lands known as the United
States and Canada.  Without Whites, there would be no America.  And BTW, 
the idiocy of calling pre-Columbian peoples "Native Americans" stands
out when this latter fact is acknowledged.  Aryans like Jason, Arthur, and
myself who were born in North America are _genuine_ "Native Americans."

>as for europe where would you decide on the territorial boundaries.  

*I* would define "the European Homeland" as being the present territory of the 
United Kingdom, Eire, France, Belgie, Nederland, Luxembourg, Schweiz, Norge, 
Sverige, Danmark, Suomi, Magyarorszag, Italia, Cechy, Slovensko, Slovenija, 
Hrvatska, Srbija, Polska, Ukraina, Rossija west of the Urals and the Volga, 
Belarus, Lietuva, Latvija, and Eesti.

Also included would be the territory of the Grossdeutsches Reich as of 
September 1, 1939, as well as territories of Aryan remnants within the
other Balkan and Iberian states.   

LB: much of eastern europe has people of asian and middle eastern descent - 
LB: there for centuries. 

Who exactly are you referring to?  If you refer to Asiatic Jews and Turks,
they will be paid to leave.

EF: Furthermore, why don't you think you already have self-determination?
EF: Someone stopping you?

JS:	Obviously, if we don't have a state geared to our needs and wants
JS: as a people, with a sufficient infrastructure to ensure our survival. 
JS: This includes institutions such as courts to uphold our laws, a
JS: constitution defining those laws, and a government to manage our affairs. 
JS: The current government is not one inclined towards giving us
JS: self-determination, much as any government in the world resists giving up
JS: power, or land.

LB: you are obviously confusing your interests, and white supremacy, with the
LB: interests of most whites.  the reality is that the government and state
LB: system does insure and support the rights of a white minority.  

No it does not.  The recent "North American Free Trade Agreement" is a
glaring example of the betrayal of White working people's interests by
the Washington and Ottawa criminals.  The continued encouragement by the
Ottawa and Washington criminals of the invasion of Canada and the United 
States by aliens is another example.

Read the complaints of the colonists in the United States Declaration of
Independence, and then compare the actions of the regimes in Washington
and Ottawa today.  Who endured/endures more?

And what's this "white minority" shit?  The population of the United 
States and Canada are still overwhelmingly White.

LB: it is obvious to all who wish to look that current state-corporate 
LB: organization works in the interests of a wealthy white elite.  

White by genes, Jewish by thought.  This largely White power elite does
not operate in the interests of the perpetual survival and advancement 
of the Aryan Race in North America, and therefore your argument is 
irrelevant.  The mostly White and Jewish international power elite 
operates solely for the increase of their own wealth and power, not for 
the empowerment and welfare of ordinary White people.

LB: the irony here is that the same structures that keep most of us poor and 
LB: slaving at uninteresting work, encourages you to hate your brothers and 
LB: sisters of colour in order to maintain power, and then will work to crush 
LB: any opposition arising (including your own).  

Aryan racial nationalism predates the institutions you refer to by many 
thousands of years.  Love of one's own kind has existed since the dawn
of humanity, and does not result from the Capitalist exploitation system.
On the contrary, the Judeo-Capitalist system functions to increase 
profit and power at the expense of racial and self-determination, not only 
for Whites, but every people and culture.

Indeed, the Capitalist system, a product of Jewish culture and worldview,
looks upon Aryan, African, and other racial nationalists as obstacles to 
be pushed aside or destroyed utterly in their pursuit of global domination.  
We are fully aware of who and what we fight.

LB: you will undoubtably resurrect the old zionist owned government explan-
LB: ation, which is plain silly.  in case you hadn't noticed the majority 
LB: of those in positions of power are from european ancestry.

Of course there are more Whites than Jews and other non-Whites in the
positions of power.  There are more of them in the population overall.  
But, if you look at *percentages*, there is a vast overrepresentation of 
Jews in government, finance, and the media, and further, Jews "just happen" 
to pop up in the most powerful "behind the scenes" or media-obscured places.

LB: it could also be argued that territoriality based on "likeness" is an
LB: aberration left over from our days as apes and tribal peoples.

Racial nationalism is the social trait which has allowed human diversity
to evolve.  To suppress love of one's own kind is to impede evolution,
and attack the very diversity which liberals claim to embrace.

LB: as for caring for children, most research would indicate that a child is 
LB: far safer with a gay or lesbian than a straight man.

Which fairy journal did you find this in?


        ---------------------------------------------------------
        WE SHALL CHOOSE HOW WE SHALL LIVE WITH WHOM WE SHALL LIVE
        -------- THE ARYAN RACE WILL SURVIVE AND PROSPER --------
                 ---------------------------------------



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Thu Jun  2 19:45:46 PDT 1994
Article: 6633 of alt.skinheads
Xref: oneb alt.skinheads:6633 soc.culture.african.american:32815
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: FAQ: WHITE POWER
Message-ID: <1994Jun1.150059.10874@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 1 Jun 94 15:00:58 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <1994May22.214433.1@clstac> <1994May23.210706.10162@cs.wm.edu> 
 <1994May23.170742.1@clstac> <1994May24.004512.13907@cs.wm.edu> 
 <1994May23.212101.1@clstac>  
 <1994May29.233226.1@clstac> ,<1994May31.163542.28689@ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 33

Steve Procter denounces Arthur LeBouthillier's "White Power FAQ":

>Agreed. Skinhead does *not* mean Nazi, so get your disgusting fascist
>"ideology" out of alt.skinheads. 

Skinheads come in many varieties; racist, anti-racist, and non-racist.

>I will be mailing postmaster@csupomona.edu and root@csupomona.edu to make 
>it clear that I do not appreciate their users posting Nazi propaganda to 
>unrelated newsgroups...

Isn't that nice.  You don't appreciate other people's opinions.

>...and I hope other concerned users will do the same (hence crosspost to 
>s.c.a.a). 

That's curious; I thought you said one shouldn't post something to an un-
related newsgroup? 

>Let's get this scum off the net - and if anyone from CSU at Pomona is 
>reading, kick the bastard off your campus as well!

My, oh my, Mr. Procter.  What are you afraid of?  Arthur's FAQ must be
pretty powerful stuff for you to become so hysterical.

BTW Mr. Procter, perhaps you forget that this nation has something
called the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.  It
protects the right of an individual like Arthur to post his opinions,
and not be punished for it because a fascist like you doesn't want to
see or hear what he has to say.  Go ahead, and mail CSUPomona.  I don't
think they're into opening themselves up to a Free Speech Civil Rights
lawsuit.



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Fri Jun  3 06:22:35 PDT 1994
Article: 6647 of alt.skinheads
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Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: FAQ: WHITE POWER
Message-ID: <1994Jun2.084841.10884@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 2 Jun 94 08:48:41 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <1994May31.163542.28689@ee.surrey.ac.uk> <1994May22.214433.1@clstac> 
 <1994May23.210706.10162@cs.wm.edu> <1994May23.170 ,
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 23

Buddy Bear responds to Jason:

>Ah, but there is the problem, isn't it, Jason?  You are among those who 
>promised to avoid the political discussion, here. 

The fact is that Jason, Tigger, and myself organized the potentially
permanent -- but inevitably temporary -- political ceasefire.  It worked
for about two months.  But, the "anti-racists" (i.e. anti-White racists)
couldn't control themselves, and violated the ceasefire.  Several attempts
have been made to control the political debates (political *expressions*
are another matter), but they have invariably failed.  Since the "anti-
racists" insist upon making this group into a "Nazi Skinhead" debate
and denounce forum, I see no reason why Jason or others (myself included)
shouldn't counter derogatory expressions or answer inquiries about
our politics, or why Arthur shouldn't post his FAQ regularly.  His FAQ 
is educational, not provocative, and since some skins are racist, it 
has a proper place on this group.

If you do not like politics on alt.skinheads, the ONLY legitimate altern-
ative is to create a new group, either for White Power users, or for the 
"anti-racists" and non-racists.  Perhaps we should propose creation of 
"alt.skinheads.politics" or "alt.skinheads.white.power".



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Fri Jun  3 19:05:35 PDT 1994
Article: 6656 of alt.skinheads
Xref: oneb alt.skinheads:6656 talk.politics.misc:133632
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Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Procter v. LeBouthillier: A case of censorship
Message-ID: <1994Jun2.142405.10910@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 2 Jun 94 14:24:04 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 74

Steve Procter argues with Jason Smith:

JS: What you are advocating is censorship, and the restriction of free speech.

SP: What I am advocating is common-sense netiquette and a bit of consideration
SP: for other net users.  

No you are not.  You are not "concerned" with netiquette one damn bit.  If
you were, you would not be advocating the tactics you are to silence some-
one whom you have no valid arguments to refute.  Further, your inflammation
of the situation by crossposting your earlier post to soc.culture.african.
american demonstrates that you are a troublemaker.

SP: It has been made clear to you that the purpose of this group is *not*
SP: the discussion of Nazi ideology.

Alt.skinheads is not YOUR group.  You do not set the rules for what goes on 
here.  Skinheads and those interested in any facet of skinhead culture,
whether they be racist, "anti-racist," or non-racist, may post here.  And
because some skinheads ARE racists and/or National Socialists, commentary 
about National Socialism is completely relevant.  

SP: If you wish to discuss such matters, find a more appropriate group.

Such as???  Mr. Procter, would you support the creation of such a "more
appropriate group," say for instance, alt.skinheads.politics?  And if
not, why not?

SP: By hijacking the group for your own ends you are making it impossible for
SP: sensible discussion to take place and are thus restricting the freedom
SP: of speech of the legitimate users of the group.

Bullshit.  Neither Jason, Arthur, or any other racist on this group has
prevented in any way the discussion of subjects other than those they 
deal with.  You and your comrades are welcome to post anything they 
wish.  If you don't like to read Jason or Arthur's posts, use a kill-
file.  

YOU are the one who wishes to restrict freedom of speech.

SP: However, most college authorities are rather more sensitive to abuses 
SP: of their systems, and hopefully they will discourage LeBouthillier from 
SP: any further such abuses.

Since Arthur has in no way "abused" this newsgroup, this argument on its
face is irrelevant.  But, we need to look behind Mr. Procter's words.
What he is saying is that since Arthur is posting politically-incorrect
material which Mr. Procter is apparently incapable of refuting, he 
assumes that contacting Arthur's school will result in the desired
censorship.  However, it is highly unlikely that the adminstration of
Arthur's school would heed garbage forwarded to them, demanding they
censor someone for "incorrect" thoughts, especially when it comes from
someone in a foreign country (where it is alot easier to punish some-
one for "thought crimes"), and who furthermore attempted to incite 
trouble by crossposting to an inapproriate group.

Several incidents in recent years have occurred at various American 
schools, and invariably, Freedom of Speech has prevailed.  The admini-
stration of the University of Minnesota recently had to undergo "First
Amendment Sensitivity Training" after they unjustly punished students 
for expressing their "politically-incorrect" ideas and feelings.  
Arthur's school would set themselves up to embarassing and costly legal 
problems if they obeyed some bitching big mouth. 

>Posting offensive material to the net is something which cannot and should
>not be regulated. Preventing legitimate users of a newsgroup from discussing
>the issues which they wish to discuss is a different matter altogether. 

Again, this is crap.  No one has prevented Procter or his kind from 
posting to this group, or carrying on a discussion or debate of any
subject they wish.

The hypocrisy of Mr. Procter's statement is blinding.



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Mon Jun 27 16:09:48 PDT 1994
Article: 7248 of alt.skinheads
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Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: UN Charter
Message-ID: <1994Jun26.174432.26@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 26 Jun 94 17:44:32 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <2uhurv$md@post-office.nevada.edu>
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 12

GREG HJELSTROM writes:

>Arthur, have you read the United Nations Charter on Universal Human Rights?
>It would seem that the whole world is against you. :-)

Since I'm not a member, decrees of the "United Nations" are irrelevant.  And
besides, the inalienable Right to self-determination predates the existence 
of the so-called "UN" by over a century.

The survival of the Aryan Race is our justification.




From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Mon Jun 27 16:09:50 PDT 1994
Article: 7249 of alt.skinheads
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: a harmless question
Message-ID: <1994Jun26.174812.27@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 26 Jun 94 17:48:11 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <1994Jun20.231855.1@clstac> <2ua5ne$8fu@post-office.nevada.edu>,<1994Jun26.183935.79422@sue.cc.uregina.ca>
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 8

richard jensen writes:

>Also just a side note for you.  The majority of the ideas used to set up 
>the Canadian and United States governments came from the confederations
>of tribes around the Great Lakes.  Look it up.

This is a load of shit.



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Tue Jun 28 05:09:16 PDT 1994
Article: 7265 of alt.skinheads
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Message for Art and Jason
Message-ID: <1994Jun27.114529.35@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 27 Jun 94 11:45:28 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 9

Hey you guys!

MSUS1 is having problems with external e-mail, so my messages from Friday 
have not gotten to you.

Will contact you via alternative means.

-- Milton



From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Thu Jun 30 06:13:23 PDT 1994
Article: 7302 of alt.skinheads
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: All racists are stupid? I think not!
Message-ID: <1994Jun29.092547.62@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 29 Jun 94 09:25:46 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References:  <28JUN94.15121117.0099@IBM.UTM.EDU>,
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 18

John Baglow writes:

>Luther's reformation was antithetical to the leader concept which nazis 
>endorse. 

Perhaps, but much of Dr. Luther's thought is fully compatible with, and 
ancestral to, National Socialism.  Many view Luther as Hitler's "spiritual
ancestor."

>And you wouldn't enjoy reading Jack London's "The Iron Heel."

Oh really?  I thought it was great.  Supposedly Marxist, but we racialists
know that London was a proto-National Socialist.  _The Iron Heel_ is
recommended and sold by National Vanguard Books, the premiere American
National Socialist bookseller.  And London's _Valley of the Moon_ is based
on the "Nazi" concept of "Blood and Soil," too.




From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Thu Jun 30 15:38:30 PDT 1994
Article: 7316 of alt.skinheads
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Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: RE: Poor Sylvia
Message-ID: <1994Jun29.182749.71@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 29 Jun 94 18:27:49 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <28JUN94.15812705.0099@IBM.UTM.EDU> ,
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 24

Lainna Lane Eljabi writes:

>Sylvia,
>You have only feminism to thank for the very fact that you are literate
>enough to spew out your senseless drivell [sic]...

Sylvia has her own hard work, and the proper parenting her mother and father
gave her, to thank for her literacy.

>Had it not been for feminists before you, you would never had gotten that
>illustrious university education you so feebly refer to each time you make
>yet another misinformed rant.

Today's Marxist Man-hating/envying "Feminists" like Ms. Eljabi would like
to take credit for the gains women have made as the Judeo-Christian 
despotism over society and its condescension against Aryan women has 
dissipated due to the enlightening philsophies of Aryan thinkers and leaders,
and to the work of such women like Susan B. Anthony, yet the Modern 
(typically Jewish) "Feminists" like Steinem (and their adoring followers 
like Eljabi) have no more right to claim philosophical descent from 
Anthony than the Clintonistas have to regard Thomas Jefferson as their 
predecessor.




From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!panther.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Fri Jul  1 07:55:23 PDT 1994
Article: 13178 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!panther.Gsu.EDU!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: back to basics
Message-ID: <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 30 Jun 94 09:02:07 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu>
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 131

Eleanor Brown writes:

>I've been following your discussions lately, and I was wondering if any of the
>posters who deny the Holocaust would be interested in answering some basic
>questions for me...I'd also prefer only those people who *don't* beleive 
>that the Holocaust occurred to answer, because I'm having trouble with 
>the basics. 

>Why do you beleive the Holocaust is a fabrication?

Because when one honestly examines the revisionist literature, the myriad
wholes in the "facts" of the "Holocaust" are plain to see.  Further, we
must consider that _only_ the "Holocaust" is protected against critical 
analysis in many countries; an historical _fact_ does not need special safe-
guards to protect it.  And, we must keep in mind the motive for concocting
such a Myth: billions of dollars from Western Nations for Israel and an 
incredible amount of coercive psychological power for Zionists against 
their opponents.

>Who do you think has a vested interest in saying that it did occur?

World Jewry (the motive is clear), and Goiim who are dependent upon the
status quo and/or the Establishment for their livelihood or their repu-
tation and prestige.

>Do you consider yourself anti-Jewish?

I consider myself anti-Jewish only to the extent I need be to oppose the
unwanted and unwarranted Jewish influence in my life.  I can work with 
anyone, Jewish, Black, etc., etc., as long as they respect me and mind
their own business.

>Do you beleive that the Nazis killed anyone, such as gypsies and gays, in
>camps?

No one was killed by the National Socialist government without legitimate
cause.  Criminals and war criminals (mainly partisans) were unquestionably
executed by the NS regime.

>Have you ever been to one of the death camps?

No.  But do I need to go to Pearl Harbor to know what the Japs did there
on 12/07/41?

>Do you beleive that the Nazis were anti-Jewish?

The National Socialists loved their own people above all, and opposed all
internal and external forces which threatened or harmed the German nation.
German and World Jewry regularly operated contrary to the welfare of the
German people, and therefore elicited a harsh response from the German
government.

>			      implemented anti-Jewish law codes?

Yes, many of them. 

>		  	      carried out imprisonment?

Yes.

>			      intended extermination but did not do it?

No.  The Germans wished to expel foreign and/or hostile elements in Germany,
but did not intend mass destruction of any population group.  Of course
the Germans did not pamper the Jews, and if one sees failure to cater to
Jewish comfort during World War II as criminal, then the Germans were
criminal.

>Do you approve of the Nazi party and its platforms?

Yes.  And I wish to see the National Socialist Idea implemented in all Aryan
countries today.

>Were you alive during WWII?

No.  Were you alive during the American Revolutionary War?

>What would it take to definitively prove to you that the Holocaust *did* occur?

Genuine evidence.  Prove to me that _homicidal_ gas chambers existed.  Present
me a genuine order from any German government official with the authority to 
implement such a policy of genocide.  Present me with accurate census data
(not estimates) of Jews in Europe in 1939, and in 1946.  

>What happened to all those Jews who disappeared?

How many "disappeared?"  How did you establish the number of "missing"
Jews?

The "estimates" (take note: ALWAYS estimates, never concrete facts -- because
their are none) of "missing" Jews I've seen usually can be easily explained
by the multiple "missing" claims for single individuals, and the undocu-
mented emigration to the Soviet Union and other countries just prior to
and during the war.

>Do you beleive that all Nazi documentation of the Holocaust was fabricated?

Most of the supposedly strongest "evidence" "proving" "Nazi genocide" was
indeed fabricated.  Most of the supplementary documents not wholly fabri-
cated were doctored (usually mistranslated or retouched microcopies) to 
make it "prove" something it originally did not.  Many of the genuine 
documents used at Nuernberg and today to "prove" the "Holocaust" are 
irrelevant without misleading commentary.  

>If the Holocaust did not occur, what is wrong with people thinking that it did?

Nothing.

I don't care if anyone believes the Earth is flat, or that 2+2=5.  What I
_do_ care about is when myth is taught as fact in schools and to the general
public through the mass media.  What I _do_ care about is when billions 
of my People's tax dollars are squandered to support Israel and to erect
"Holocaust Museums," despite the fact that millions of Americans need
decent jobs and housing and health care, and no comparable monument has
been constructed honoring _American_ victims of _genuine_ atrocities.

>What scholar do you feel best represents your views?

David John Cawdell Irving.  

>I am not interested in attacking you, and really not even interested in 
>debating.  I just want to know why you feel the way you do, and what 
>exactly your views are.  

Thank you for hearing me out.  I hope my response is what you were looking
for.

>I would greatly appreciate your help.

You're welcome.
 


From oneb!kmcvay Sat Jul  2 15:51:48 PDT 1994
Article: 13311 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Milton "Hermann" Kleim's articles archived 
References: <1994Jun29.100533.1@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> <1994Jun30.090207.77@msus1.msus.edu> <2v1gpe$2k8@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1994Jul02.224825.28491@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 94 22:48:25 GMT

In article <2v1gpe$2k8@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>"Hermann" also wrote here, many times, that Jews are inferior to
>"Aryans", and posted numerous other Nazi and racist drivel. I have
>most of it archived; if someone (perhaps the original poster) wants
>to study what "Holocaust revisionism" is all about, and who are
>the people who pursue it, I'm willing to post or mail the relevant
>excerpts from his articles.

Milton's articles are also archived here. To retrieve them, send
these commands to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca:

GET FASCISM/DOSSIER KLEIM.MILTON
GET FASCISM/USA KLEIM.1093


-- 
--------------------------The Old Frog's Almanac-------------------------
"However, it is sophistry to proclaim that something must have happened a
certain way because your `reason' demands it." (Greg Raven, Institute for
Historical Review)   


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN Sat Jul  2 15:58:19 PDT 1994
Article: 7350 of alt.skinheads
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!news.gac.edu!msus1.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: All racists are stupid? I think not!
Message-ID: <1994Jun30.155800.88@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.)
Date: 30 Jun 94 15:57:59 -0500
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
References: <1994Jun29.092547.62@msus1.msus.edu>  
 <28JUN94.15121117.0099@IBM.UTM.EDU>,
Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
Lines: 67

John Baglow argues with me:

>Not wanting to prolong this (I'm running out of references to beer), but:

>>>Luther's reformation was antithetical to the leader concept which nazis 
>>>endorse. 

>>Perhaps, but much of Dr. Luther's thought is fully compatible with, and 
>>ancestral to, National Socialism.  Many view Luther as Hitler's "spiritual
>>ancestor."

>Outside the common teutonic ancestry, I can see very little in common
>between the thought of Luther and Hitler. 

If you'd do a little library research, you just might find titles like
_Martin Luther: Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor_, by Peter F. Wiener  (London:
Hutchinson, 1945).  

And although _you_ don't find common thought between Hitler and Luther,
the German National Socialists _did_, and that's what counts.

>>>And you wouldn't enjoy reading Jack London's "The Iron Heel."

>>Oh really?  I thought it was great.  Supposedly Marxist, but we racialists
>>know that London was a proto-National Socialist.  _The Iron Heel_ is
>>recommended and sold by National Vanguard Books, the premiere American
>>National Socialist bookseller. 

>I urge anyone on the newsgroup to read this novel, full of exhortations to
>an international working class and indignation about the crushing of
>strikers, etc., and calling for international revolution, and then try to
>square it with the threadbare nationalist ideology of nazism. 

I urge EVERYONE to read the novel, and while so doing, keep in mind Jack 
London's statement, 

"I am first of all a White man, and only then a socialist."

>Hitler, too, crushed strikers, and he wasn't too interested in inter-
>national working class revolution. 

The Germans smashed the Communist "workers" groups, and replaced them with
_genuine_ labor organizations like the Deutsche Arbeitsfront.

>It is intriguing that there appears to be a nazi reading of this
>text. London (like John Davidson, the poet) had a mixture of ideas in his
>head, some socialist, some Nietzschean. He was a product of his time, and
>could hardly, in any event, be called a consistent socialist. I would
>suggest that some of his "superman" stuff gives nazis a sense of kinship,
>and that his novels are thus claimed as proto-nazi. 

My cited quotation is all one needs to understand London's true feelings
about "Nazism" and racialism.  But, if you insist John, I can cite 
London's thoughts on the "Yellow menace," among other things.

>But even Herperson the Gerperson [sic] would have a hard time with "The 
>Iron Heel", which is all about struggle *against* fascism (which London 
>forsaw as the ultimate capitalist political formation opposed to an 
>escalating push by workers for social justice). The categories in the 
>novel derive from classic Marxism, in fact.

Indeed London's political thought developed largely from classic Marxism, 
but the main difference between applied Marxist social thought and National
Socialist social thought is the factor of race.  Unquestionably, London
subscribed to racism.  In light of that, it is justified to call London
a proto-National Socialist.

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