From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan  5 14:42:16 PST 1996
Article: 10131 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revolution.counter
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: CommuServe Solution...Boycott H&R Block!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:02:07 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:10131 alt.politics.white-power:13345 alt.skinheads:8845 alt.revolution.counter:5430

FACT #1: CompuServe, not the German government, initiated the censorship of
         USENET groups they deemed "controversial" and "offensive."

FACT #2: CompuServe is owned by H&R Block, the national tax preparation firm.

FACT #3: Income tax time has arrived!

FACT #4: Choosing an alternative tax preparation service this year would
         send a powerful message to CompuServe's parent company, and would
         tend to discourage future unilateral and self-righteous censorship.


Support your local independent tax accountant this year.


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan  5 14:58:24 PST 1996
Article: 13346 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Name that Nazi!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:55:42 GMT
Lines: 21

Joel Rosenberg (writes:

> So, let's try to find a better for the neonazis, shall we?
 
> I propose:
 
[two others deleted]

> The Differently Ethical

Considering your "ethics," Jew-el, such as centering your sexuality on
beastiality, basing your "morality" upon an obssession with sexual
intercourse with dogs, I consider it an HONOR that you would term me
"differently ethical" compared to you.


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan  5 14:58:25 PST 1996
Article: 13364 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: America's Fate: Beyond the Bounds of Time
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:51:39 GMT
Lines: 24

Joel Rosenberg says:

> You know, Mortie, if you could learn to write fiction, you might have a career.
 
> On the other hand, your little short story here is whiny crap.  Try it over, 
> and see if you can get the characterizations at least deep enough to 
> hydroplane on. 

Why, I'm so sorry, Jew-el, that you didn't like my piece.  I guess you don't
like stories that don't follow along the line of beastiality "love" stories, 
which all of us know you're so fond of.

The work was not for your entertainment, Jew-el.  That's what PEN (Perverts
Entertainment Network) is for.  The ideas conveyed, not the characters,
were the point of the work.

My objective was accomplished, the purpose of the story was effective...

because I got everybody to read it.
--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@freenet.carleton.ca Fri Jan  5 15:25:39 PST 1996
Article: 116195 of news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!bounce-back
From: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: RFD: rec.music.white-power
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 5 Jan 1996 18:23:29 -0000
Organization: .
Lines: 81
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.music.white-power
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.announce.newgroups:5237 news.groups:116195 alt.politics.nationalism.white:10152 alt.politics.white-power:13365 alt.skinheads:8854

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
               unmoderated group rec.music.white-power

This is a formal Request for Discussion for the creation of the
unmoder- ated Usenet newsgroup rec.music.white-power.  This is not a
Call for Votes - do not vote now. To participate in the discussion,
follow the topic on news.groups.  Please do not discuss the group
creation in other groups - it will most probably be off topic there.

RATIONALE: rec.music.white-power

There is no appropriate newsgroup for discussion of White Power music,
a phenomenon which is international in scope.

Persons who have an interest in this genre of music have no
appropriate venue on USENET in which to discuss this controversial
topic.  Other rec.music groups' topics are too dissimilar, and many of
their participants are in no way receptive of posts about this heated
topic.

Some discussion of White Power music occurs on alt.skinheads and
alt.politics.white-power, but is inappropriate there due to the
former's mostly lifestyle-oriented matters, and the latter's largely
political nature.

Interest in a rec.music.white-power group is indicated by expressions
on mailing lists, and in personal e-conversations with this poster.

Rec.music.white-power will prevent the "intrusion" of fans into other,
more vaguely-defined, newsgroups, where they will not be welcomed.
Discussions would necessarily be free and open, due to the topic's
controversial nature.  This group should be unmoderated because a
moderator could exercise undue control over one viewpoint's postings.

CHARTER: rec.music.white-power

All issues relating to the genre known as White Power music, since its
inception until the present, covering all languages and nationalities
of performers, and all themes of pieces.

rec.music.white-power is an unmoderated newsgroup for the entertaining
and enlightening discussion of revolutionary new forms of rock,
country, and other sub-genres having racist/nationalist themes.  Both
supporters and opponents will find the group educational and
intriguing.

Potential topics will relate to the origin, development, and
dissemination of White Power music; to the artistic composition and
performance of the music; and to the personal opinions and perceptions
of those who enjoy particular bands and performers, and pieces.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This RFD initiates a discussion period of at least 21 days.  If a con-
sensus on the charter and the name of the group is reached, a Call for
Votes (CFV) for the group will be issued.  Exact voting conditions
will be outlined in the CFV and the vote will be conducted by a
neutral third party.  The voting period will last from 21 to 31 days
and the group will pass if the YES votes outnumber the NO votes by at
least 100 votes and if at least 2/3rds of the votes are in favor of
the new group.

For more detailed information about the procedure, see "How to Create
a New Usenet Newsgroup" in news.announce.newusers.  You can also find
information about the group creation at the UVV web site at
http://www.uvv.org/uvv/.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD is cross-posted to the following Usenet newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.politics.nationalism.white, alt.
politics.white-power, alt.skinheads

-- 
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan  5 16:20:16 PST 1996
Article: 308875 of talk.politics.misc
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.online-service.compuserve,misc.news.internet.discuss,alt.sex,alt.sex.motss,soc.motss,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: CommuServe Solution...Boycott H&R Block!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:40:50 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:61280 alt.online-service.compuserve:6185 alt.sex:168595 alt.sex.motss:26972 soc.motss:207659 soc.culture.usa:76030 talk.politics.misc:308875

FACT #1: CompuServe, not the German government, initiated the censorship of
         USENET groups they deemed "controversial" and "offensive."

FACT #2: CompuServe is owned by H&R Block, the national tax preparation firm.

FACT #3: Income tax time has arrived!

FACT #4: Choosing an alternative tax preparation service this year would
         send a powerful message to CompuServe's parent company, and would
         tend to discourage future unilateral and self-righteous censorship.


Support your local independent tax accountant this year.


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 12:01:47 PST 1996
Article: 10219 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: rec.music.white-power follow-ups  (READ!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:33:48 GMT
Lines: 16
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:10219 alt.politics.white-power:13436 alt.skinheads:8886

Comrades!

You MUST reply ONLY to the group "news.groups," not to this group.

USENET group creation conventions require that RFD follow-ups be posted
only to news.groups.  Please go to that group if you wish to support
rec.music.white-power.  Ignore Ken Mcvay and his fellow stooges on other
groups; what they have to say doesn't count here. 

GO to NEWS.GROUPS

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 12:53:27 PST 1996
Article: 26713 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Continued violations of RFD reply convention
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:30:13 GMT
Lines: 25

Mr. Ken Mcvay of the Nizkor Project has repeatedly violated the
convention governing RFD follow-ups, even after being asked to limit his
follow-ups to news.groups.

A sample header is below:


Article 347145 of news.groups:
Xref: freenet.carleton.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:30536 alt.politics.white-power:35937 alt.revisionism:62234 alt.skinheads:48266 can.general:87115 news.groups:175741 soc.culture.jewish:206529
Path: freenet.carleton.ca!cunews!hookup!news.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,can.general,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Date: 5 Jan 1996 20:40:03 -0800
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4ckuf3$f0t@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
References: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net> <4ckdek$c1c@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 16:58:43 PST 1996
Article: 116225 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.ahc.ameritech.com!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!uwvax!fullfeed!pendragon!ames!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.imnet.ad.jp!news.join.ad.jp!news.caren.net!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: RE: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 04:12:13 GMT
Lines: 103

Ken Mcvay, self-appointed "Net Cop," writes:


I wrote --

> > There is no appropriate newsgroup for discussion of White Power 
> > music, a phenomenon which is international in scope.
 
> Good on UseNet, Mr. Kleim, for having the good sense to reject
> this sort of racist crap during all of these marvellous years
> of growth.

A group of the type I am proposing has never been put forth before, Mr. 
Mcvay.  The USENET community has not "rejected" such a group, as the need 
for it has only arisen in the past few months.

> Consider the following vitriolic trash, vomited by Canada's George 
> Burdi (aka George Hawthorne, aka The Reverend Eric Hawthorne):

[alleged lyrics deleted]

> All of this, of course, sung off key by Mr. Burdi and his
> RaHoWa companions, with instruments so far out of tune it's
> painful to hear, and the entire band off beat.

I think the previous five lines of commentary made by you, Mr. Mcvay, 
demonstrates your inability to be objective, sir.  You may disagree with, 
even revile, Mr. Burdi's (alleged) lyrics, but I think your extreme bias 
and malicious assertions illustrate that you have an agenda motivated by 
things other than you lead on.

> _This_ is the unadulterated crap you want to move into
> mainstream UseNet, Mr. Kleim?

I wish to help create a venue for issues oriented around the "White 
Power" music phenomenon.  The creation of rec.music.white-power will have 
little or no effect on the status of the genre in "mainstream" society, 
including USENET.

White Power music will continue to be discussed on other music groups, 
where it is only marginally appropriate, unless we allow a new venue to be 
created where White Power music fans and others may post their comments 
and news to.  Those who frequent other music groups where White Power 
music is discussed would be pleased that such a controversial topic would 
be moved to another, more suitable, location.

I would think that an individual such as yourself, Mr. Mcvay, would 
welcome the "isolation" of persons whom you don't agree with on their 
"own" group.  But I guess your motives are not as virtuous as may first 
be perceived.

> _This_ is what your "National Alliance" stands for?

What does the National Alliance have to do with rec.music.white-power?

The National Alliance is a political activist organization, which has no 
interest in the creation of the proposed newsgroup.  Perhaps you are just 
grasping for straws, Mr. Mcvay, and attempting to generate innunendo about 
myself in a pathetic effort to divert attention from the genuine issues 
relating to this RFD?

> For information about Mr. Kleim, Mr. Burdi (associated with such 
> groups as the Ku Klux Klan, Heritage Front, Tom Metzger's
> White Aryan Resistance, and the now-defunct "Church of the Creator"), 
> point your web browsers to the following URL's:

[material deleted]

> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/k/kleim.milton/

I would welcome the interested reader to investigate Mr. Mcvay's 
archives, a project which has as a foremost goal the monitoring and 
electronic stalking of individuals whom Mr. Mcvay and his handlers 
disagree with.

Mr. Mcvay represents the worst fears of every freedom-minded USENET surfer.
Mr. Mcvay represents the prototypical "Net Police" which, mistakenly,
are thought by most to only be a _proposal_ by various adherents of 
McCarthyism.  The Net Police are here -- NOW -- and Mr. Mcvay is the most 
well-known.  He finds it his duty to follow people around the Net, 
without regard for generally-accepted USENET convention.  He recently 
invaded rec.music.country, and in violation of its charter, began heated 
_political_ diatribes on it.

Feel free to check out the above URL, which relates to my writings.  I 
have nothing to hide.  And also check out the hundreds of other 
"dossiers" -- his word -- in directories such as ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/
pub/fascism/dossier/ on Mr. Mcvay's system.  Mr. Mcvay's mentors, J. 
Edgar Hoover, and Joe McCarthy, would be proud.

If you would like to research the REALITY behind one of the leading White 
Power music distributors, please check out http://www.resistance.com/

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power



--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:16:37 PST 1996
Article: 26762 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Continued violations of RFD reply convention
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4cmp1l$lin@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 01:41:58 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.admin.net-abuse.misc:26762 news.groups:116266

Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:

> Milton Kleim, of the Nazi "National Alliance," postures his
> great respect for UseNet convention:
 
>      "Mr. Ken Mcvay of the Nizkor Project has repeatedly 
>      violated the convention governing RFD follow-ups, even 
>      after being asked to limit his follow-ups to news.groups."
 
> You are too modest, Mr. Kleim, but you should not be - UseNet
> should find out what you _really_ think about "UseNet
> convention," so they can see you for the hypocrite you are:

I challenge you, Mr. Mcvay, to explain WHERE in "On Tactics and Strategy
for USENET" I advocate violating USENET group charters.  To the reader:
take note that I explicitly state that material should be posted only to
_appropriate_ groups.

On the other hand, Mr. Mcvay, you have yet to explain: 1) why you posted
several follow-ups to the RFD to groups other than news.groups; 2) why you
engaged in that foray recently on country music groups, where you
conducted _political_ harassment.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:08 PST 1996
Article: 116225 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.ahc.ameritech.com!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!uwvax!fullfeed!pendragon!ames!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.imnet.ad.jp!news.join.ad.jp!news.caren.net!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: RE: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 04:12:13 GMT
Lines: 103

Ken Mcvay, self-appointed "Net Cop," writes:


I wrote --

> > There is no appropriate newsgroup for discussion of White Power 
> > music, a phenomenon which is international in scope.
 
> Good on UseNet, Mr. Kleim, for having the good sense to reject
> this sort of racist crap during all of these marvellous years
> of growth.

A group of the type I am proposing has never been put forth before, Mr. 
Mcvay.  The USENET community has not "rejected" such a group, as the need 
for it has only arisen in the past few months.

> Consider the following vitriolic trash, vomited by Canada's George 
> Burdi (aka George Hawthorne, aka The Reverend Eric Hawthorne):

[alleged lyrics deleted]

> All of this, of course, sung off key by Mr. Burdi and his
> RaHoWa companions, with instruments so far out of tune it's
> painful to hear, and the entire band off beat.

I think the previous five lines of commentary made by you, Mr. Mcvay, 
demonstrates your inability to be objective, sir.  You may disagree with, 
even revile, Mr. Burdi's (alleged) lyrics, but I think your extreme bias 
and malicious assertions illustrate that you have an agenda motivated by 
things other than you lead on.

> _This_ is the unadulterated crap you want to move into
> mainstream UseNet, Mr. Kleim?

I wish to help create a venue for issues oriented around the "White 
Power" music phenomenon.  The creation of rec.music.white-power will have 
little or no effect on the status of the genre in "mainstream" society, 
including USENET.

White Power music will continue to be discussed on other music groups, 
where it is only marginally appropriate, unless we allow a new venue to be 
created where White Power music fans and others may post their comments 
and news to.  Those who frequent other music groups where White Power 
music is discussed would be pleased that such a controversial topic would 
be moved to another, more suitable, location.

I would think that an individual such as yourself, Mr. Mcvay, would 
welcome the "isolation" of persons whom you don't agree with on their 
"own" group.  But I guess your motives are not as virtuous as may first 
be perceived.

> _This_ is what your "National Alliance" stands for?

What does the National Alliance have to do with rec.music.white-power?

The National Alliance is a political activist organization, which has no 
interest in the creation of the proposed newsgroup.  Perhaps you are just 
grasping for straws, Mr. Mcvay, and attempting to generate innunendo about 
myself in a pathetic effort to divert attention from the genuine issues 
relating to this RFD?

> For information about Mr. Kleim, Mr. Burdi (associated with such 
> groups as the Ku Klux Klan, Heritage Front, Tom Metzger's
> White Aryan Resistance, and the now-defunct "Church of the Creator"), 
> point your web browsers to the following URL's:

[material deleted]

> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/k/kleim.milton/

I would welcome the interested reader to investigate Mr. Mcvay's 
archives, a project which has as a foremost goal the monitoring and 
electronic stalking of individuals whom Mr. Mcvay and his handlers 
disagree with.

Mr. Mcvay represents the worst fears of every freedom-minded USENET surfer.
Mr. Mcvay represents the prototypical "Net Police" which, mistakenly,
are thought by most to only be a _proposal_ by various adherents of 
McCarthyism.  The Net Police are here -- NOW -- and Mr. Mcvay is the most 
well-known.  He finds it his duty to follow people around the Net, 
without regard for generally-accepted USENET convention.  He recently 
invaded rec.music.country, and in violation of its charter, began heated 
_political_ diatribes on it.

Feel free to check out the above URL, which relates to my writings.  I 
have nothing to hide.  And also check out the hundreds of other 
"dossiers" -- his word -- in directories such as ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/
pub/fascism/dossier/ on Mr. Mcvay's system.  Mr. Mcvay's mentors, J. 
Edgar Hoover, and Joe McCarthy, would be proud.

If you would like to research the REALITY behind one of the leading White 
Power music distributors, please check out http://www.resistance.com/

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power



--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:09 PST 1996
Article: 116264 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <1996Jan6.204516.337@ircam.fr>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 02:01:52 GMT
Lines: 34

Michel Fingerhut (fingerhu@ircam.fr) writes:

>>Mr. Mcvay represents the worst fears of every freedom-minded USENET surfer.
>>Mr. Mcvay represents the prototypical "Net Police" which, mistakenly,
>>are thought by most to only be a _proposal_ by various adherents of 
>>McCarthyism.  The Net Police are here -- NOW -- and Mr. Mcvay is the most 
>>well-known.  He finds it his duty to follow people around the Net, 
 
> This is EXACTLY what Kleim does and advocates, as he writes in his "Tactics
> and Strategy for Usenet":
 
> 	If you have the time and money to spend, monitor the Enemy's
> 	groups [...] Relay such information to your comrades, possibly
> 	via the ANA

Where do I advocate _following_ people around the Net, and attacking them
on _inappropriate_ groups, like Mr. Mcvay has done and is doing, such as
on the country music groups?  Is there something wrong with suggesting
people monitor soc.culture.jewish, where discussions occur about how to
deal with us, in violation of their own charter?

BTW, I find it curious how the opponents of rmwp are using "label/divert"
in these discussions, trying to make ME, rather than the group, the issue
for discussion.  What relevance does the proponent's lawful political
views have to do with a music group's proposed creation?

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:10 PST 1996
Article: 116265 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power:
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cl9rb$c48@enigma.uniserve.com> <4cmjhm$hk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4cmkv3$h2m@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 02:05:17 GMT
Lines: 18


Richard H. Miller (rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu) writes:

> Then where is the mailing list on the topic; you are jumping from statisitics
> for web visits to a world-wide group with no evidence of how many people are
> interested in the topic or what the volume would be; if you really feel there
> is interest, create a mailing list and when you get over 150-200 subscribers 
> and 20-30 messages/day, start the process for an RFD. 

There is the RESISTLIST, Resistance Records' mailing list concering White
Power music.  There is Stormfront, where White Power music commentary occurs.
Both together have a total of over well 400 members.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:11 PST 1996
Article: 116267 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net> <4ckdek$c1c@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>   <4cmkh9$h2m@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 01:54:39 GMT
Lines: 59


Richard H. Miller (rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu) writes:

> I also agree so let me ask the obvious questions which should be asked of any
> proposal and which I never saw in the RFD.
 
> 1) where is the interest in this topic currently. What groups are seeing
>    significiant traffic about 'white power' music and how much is there?
>    What does the proponent feel that the traffic volume will be and why is
>    neither using existing groups (such as rec.music.misc) not sufficient.

alt.skinheads and alt.politics.white-power have the most traffic
concerning White Power music, where it is not completely appropriate. 
Trafic load about White Power music varies, but has more than sufficient
volume to sustain a rec.music.group.
 
Most rec.music.misc participants aren't too fond of White Power music, and it
is only fair to be considerate of their wishes.

> 2) is discussion going on in several music groups such that the creation of
>    a new group will bring together subjects from many groups?

Most of the discussion concerning the proposed rec.music.white-power is
off of USENET, such as on mailing lists, for various reasons.

> Given the total lack of any evidence that there is no significiant traffic on
> the topic I see no reason for this group; I suggest that the existing groups
> covering the more general topic of 'white power' be used.

I think you're seeing what you wish, rather than what is occurring.

> I to tend to agree that this is simply an attempt to fuel a flame war and
> give the proponents a chance to whine how the big bad people were so afraid
> of the topic that this group was denied a chance to exist. 
 
WHO is attacking who?  We're not attacking anyone; we're following the
proper conventions for USENET group creation, and here we have Mcvay
and his allies violating several aspects of netiquette, such as unnecessary
crossposting, in an effort to defeat the group before the RFD has even
really started.  I think his efforts are based in hysteria.  If any fuel
for a flame-war is being poured, look to Ken Mcvay, not me.

> The best thing to do is to not argue on content lines and let it either die
> or go to vote and hopefully be defeated since there is no evidence it is
> a needed group.

Then why fight us before the vote?  If there is "no evidence" that the
group is desired, why the mobilization of Mcvay and company against us,
two days after the RFD?  I think you're a bit worried that WE will
mobilize more than enough to succeed during the CFV.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:11 PST 1996
Article: 116268 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power:
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cl9rb$c48@enigma.uniserve.com> <4cmjhm$hk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <1996Jan6.215049.2702@ircam.fr>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 02:08:30 GMT
Lines: 24


Michel Fingerhut (fingerhu@ircam.fr) writes:

>>As a record company (Resistance Records) specializing in this 
>>music,  we support the creation of such a discussion group. 
 
> They have a Web site, they have a mailing list, they have a magazine,
> and now they want a newsgroup.  It is a political act, not a
> recreational one, so this SHOULD NEVER come into the "rec" hierarchy.

*I*, someone with no connection to Resistance Records, am the proponent
for this group.  I saw the need for this group, and have solicited help
>from  RR, not vice-versa.

Perhaps your own ethnicity, Mr. Fingerhut, has something to do with your
staunch opposition to rec.music.white-power?

[alleged "quotations" from Mr. Hawthorne deleted]

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan  6 22:19:12 PST 1996
Article: 116269 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 02:12:16 GMT
Lines: 21

Stephanie Smith (mspompom@mtcc.com) writes:

>> I wish to help create a venue for issues oriented around the "White 
>> Power" music phenomenon. 
 
> Then create a mailing list or an alt.* group.

Tell us, Stephanie, why you are opposed to a REC.music, if you acknowledge
the need for an ALT.music group?

It couldn't be your political views, could it?

And BTW, the mailing list exists; it's called RESISTLIST.  Its popularity
indicates the potential popularity of a rec.music.white-power group.


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan  7 10:45:54 PST 1996
Article: 10267 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: The Man Against Time
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 05:52:25 GMT
Lines: 49
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:13485 alt.politics.nationalism.white:10267 alt.skinheads:8917

MAN AGAINST TIME

In your heart you felt the cause of our age,
In your moment of glory at the crest of the wave,
Like a comet you burned, like a tempest you raged,
As a hero of the People you suffered to save.

As a man against time in a world so bizarre,
In the myst of tomorrow you shine like a star,
In the vision of legends and martyrs afar,
Like a prophet and soldier we know who you are.

Like the soul that cries forth in its hour of pain,
Like the cloud that gives life to the field with its rain,
For the hope of and the legacy of the Race born again,
Destiny called you to rise above men.

And up you did rise and a hero was born,
A man that we love, and cherish, and mourn,
A legend in time, a bringer of storm,
A vanguard of promise in a world that we scorn.

And for every White man in touch with your dream,
As the nightmare unfolds and the White children scream,
You were baptized in flames, you died to defend,
In the fire that claimed you, clutching faith to the end.

I will hold your brave memory alive in my soul,
I will teach your proud name to all that I know,
I will live to complete the task you began,
As a worthy and righteous and noble White man.

And if the day dawns when our People are free:
Free to rejoice, to be proud and believe,
You will be like a God unto our fair kind,
Robert Mathews: the Warrior, the Man Against Time.

-- George Eric Hawthorne
   Lead vocalist of RAHOWA
   "Man Against Time," from "Cult of the Holy War"
   Resistance Records, 1995

Resistance Records: http://www.resistance.com/

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan  7 12:09:46 PST 1996
Article: 116294 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!news.ucdavis.edu!library.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: rec.music.white-power: a sample potential topic
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 04:35:36 GMT
Lines: 60

Since there has been so much innuendo by Mr. Mcvay, et.al., about just
what White Power music is all about, I thought I'd post a sample of some
lyrics.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp

-----



MAN AGAINST TIME

In your heart you felt the cause of our age,
In your moment of glory at the crest of the wave,
Like a comet you burned, like a tempest you raged,
As a hero of the People you suffered to save.

As a man against time in a world so bizarre,
In the myst of tomorrow you shine like a star,
In the vision of legends and martyrs afar,
Like a prophet and soldier we know who you are.

Like the soul that cries forth in its hour of pain,
Like the cloud that gives life to the field with its rain,
For the hope of and the legacy of the Race born again,
Destiny called you to rise above men.

And up you did rise and a hero was born,
A man that we love, and cherish, and mourn,
A legend in time, a bringer of storm,
A vanguard of promise in a world that we scorn.

And for every White man in touch with your dream,
As the nightmare unfolds and the White children scream,
You were baptized in flames, you died to defend,
In the fire that claimed you, clutching faith to the end.

I will hold your brave memory alive in my soul,
I will teach your proud name to all that I know,
I will live to complete the task you began,
As a worthy and righteous and noble White man.

And if the day dawns when our People are free:
Free to rejoice, to be proud and believe,
You will be like a God unto our fair kind,
Robert Mathews: the Warrior, the Man Against Time.

-- George Eric Hawthorne
   Lead vocalist of RAHOWA
   "Man Against Time," from "Cult of the Holy War"
   Resistance Records, 1995

Resistance Records: http://www.resistance.com/

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan  7 12:09:47 PST 1996
Article: 116318 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 05:47:42 GMT
Lines: 351

Ken Mcvay replies to me:

> >A group of the type I am proposing has never been put forth before, Mr. 
> >Mcvay.  The USENET community has not "rejected" such a group, as the need 
> >for it has only arisen in the past few months.
 
> There is no need for a newsgroup dedicated to the "discussion"
> of crap like this:

>                            "Third Reich"

[alleged lyrics deleted]

I guess we're just supposed to "take your word for it" that Mr. 
Hawthorne (Burdi) REALLY said that?  You admit (below) that you make no 
pretense of objectivity, so why should the reader accept your assertions 
as valid?

> >> All of this, of course, sung off key by Mr. Burdi and his
> >> RaHoWa companions, with instruments so far out of tune it's
> >> painful to hear, and the entire band off beat.
 
> >I think the previous five lines of commentary made by you, Mr. Mcvay, 
> >demonstrates your inability to be objective, sir.  You may disagree with, 
> >even revile, Mr. Burdi's (alleged) lyrics, but I think your extreme bias 
> >and malicious assertions illustrate that you have an agenda motivated by 
> >things other than you lead on.
 
> You're absolutely correct, Mr. Kleim. I am not remotely
> objective - Burdi's words, and I assure you they _are_ Burdi's
> words (perhaps you should ask him, if he hasn't yet started
> his year in the slammer for assault causing bodily harm - he's
> on the net, and so is his record company, Resistance) - I've
> seen and heard the tape, his words are a succinct and clear
> explanation for the existance of the trash you call music.
> Hate rock is deliberately used as a recruiting tool by the
> Nazis who produce it. It serves no other purpose.

"I assure you they _are_ Burdi's words."

Thank you.  That instills LOTS of confidence in me.  Just what are your 
impecable credentials which demonstrate you cannot lie?

The Sun is blue.  I can assure you it is.

> Malicious assertions, Mr. Kleim? To state that the band can't
> sing, play, or keep their instruments in tune is being KIND. 

That is an OPINION, Mr. Mcvay, and you're entitled to it, but when you 
imply such an opinion is some sort of "common knowledge," well, that's 
dishonest.

> Agenda? Yes, I do. My agenda is to confront racists and
> right-wing extremists here on the net, and to expose them for
> exactly what they are.

No, Mr. Mcvay.  You distort and manipulate.  You are an "image manager" 
-- for people whom you disagree with.  You archive those things which 
tell the side of the story YOU wish were the case, while conveniently 
ignoring explanatory material which makes myself, Mr. Burdi, and our 
friends to be seen as _just a bit_ less "evil" than you lead on.

> In your case, it means demonstrating that you are a
> hypocritical hatemonger, one who admitted he would lie
> whenever and wherever it suited his "cause." It means
> introducing the real Milton Kleim to the folks who don't know
> him yet.

Oh, yes, Mr. Mcvay, build your ego, and make yourself out to be something 
greater than you are.  Mr. Mcvay, you really _should_ see a professional, 
since you often have delusions of grandeur.

I don't hide my beliefs, Mr. Mcvay.  It just doesn't get through that 
thick skull of yours that publicity is what I WANT.  Our Cause is 
_strengthened_ by publicity, even  by your pathetic attempts to malign my 
friends and I with your selective and crafted "dossiers."

I think it is obvious that I am a White Nationalist to the ordinary 
USENETer, since my .sig is overtly racist, my views are overtly racist, 
and I often post references to Website which arcive my works (the 
accurate copies, not the distorted ones).

I guess what you mean by "expose" is really a euphemism for "distort."

> You rant and pontificate about the "abuse of UseNet
> conventions," all the while advocating the invasion of 15,000
> or so newsgroups for recruiting purposes. You cynically refer
> to your targets as "uninformed and unaware," showing your
> contempt for the millions of unwary people to whom you wish to
> present your "kinder, gentler" Adolf Hitler.

I welcome the reader to read "On Tactics and Strategy for USENET" at this 
address:  http://www.io.com/~wlp/, under "Aryan Crusader's Library."

Most of the people who disagree with me yet have some honor and 
objectivity agree that my work advocates nothing contrary to USENET 
convention.

Mr. Mcvay is insensed that my work has been effective in circumventing 
his activities, making his work much harder, a job for which he is PAID 
for through grants and free equipment.  I, on the other hand, do my work 
out of sense of idealism.  "Anti-racism" is a lucrative business, for 
which there are many financial and political rewards.  Mr. Mcvay's little 
trophy from the Big Business stooges in British Columbia proves that.

>    "The Jew rules only through fear, an atmosphere of
>    conscious and subconscious terror permeating every
>    facet of society generated by strategic planning, a
>    socially-caustic mix of money, myth, empowering dynamoes
>    [sic] of the grand plan. ... I have revealed the heartfelt
>    thoughts of a National Socialist with bold honesty" Milton
>    Kleim, alt.revisionism, March 21, 1994.

My, you have some imagination.

Curious you didn't bother with a header. Yet another typical Mcvay "clipping"
of his opponents words.

> You are a charleton of the first order.

Pot.  Kettle.  Black.

You have to try harder, Ken.  Statements like that are quite ordinary.

> >I wish to help create a venue for issues oriented around the "White 
> >Power" music phenomenon.  The creation of rec.music.white-power will have 
> >little or no effect on the status of the genre in "mainstream" society, 
> >including USENET.
 
> Horsepucky. You and your nazi friends want a solid, mainstream
> base for your internet recruiting efforts. You yourself
> advocated ignoring a newsgroup's subject matter, and invading
> it strictly for recruiting. You are a liar and a fraud, Mr.
> Kleim.

I challenge you to demonstrate WHERE I "advocated ignoring a newsgroups's 
subject matter" to "invade" it.

We want a group which will be a venue for discussing a culture-form which 
thousands of people in America, and many more across the world, enjoy.  
We really don't give a damn if you don't like White Power music.  If you 
don't like it, don't listen to it, and certainly don't join a group where 
it is discussed.  What we are asking for is nothing that is "unique" or 
"sinister."  If one counts the "racist-oriented" groups, and compares 
them to the multicultural- and ultra-left-oriented groups, the latter 
outnumbers ours dozens to one.

> >White Power music will continue to be discussed on other music groups, 
> >where it is only marginally appropriate, unless we allow a new venue to be 
> >created where White Power music fans and others may post their comments 
> >and news to.  Those who frequent other music groups where White Power 
> >music is discussed would be pleased that such a controversial topic would 
> >be moved to another, more suitable, location.
 
> I suggest you join the Resistance Records mailing list, Mr.
> Kleim - those who go there have no illusions as to its
> purpose, so you'll feel right at home. The usual reason for a
> new group is that traffic devoted to it in a broader group has
> taken over the group... hate rock, for instance, dominating
> chatter in a rock music group.

I already receive the RESISTLIST.  As do hundreds of others.  

Some people cannot handle the load of a mailing list, but their system's 
NNTP server offers them an alternative way to participate in discussions 
about subjects they enjoy.  But of course they're allowed to enjoy things 
which only you approve of, correct Mr. Mcvay?

> What has been the percentage of traffic in the alt.music
> groups, Mr. Kleim? What? You don't know? How about
> alt.music.hardcore - Mr. Burdi tries to peddle his trash there
> from time to time - has hate-rock now dominated the group? In
> a pig's eye. There is no demonstrated need, Mr. Kleim, so
> perhaps you should issue a newgroup for alt.music.nazi or
> alt.music.hate-rock, and see what sort of traffic develops.

Mr. Mcvay, just admit that you are opposed to a REC.music group because 
it would be harder for you to control.  You are politically-motivated, 
and are not in the least interested in "traffic load" (except maybe on 
your news capture toy, with which you archive EVERY post which has the 
slightest tinge of "racism").

> >I would think that an individual such as yourself, Mr. Mcvay, would 
> >welcome the "isolation" of persons whom you don't agree with on their 
> >"own" group.  But I guess your motives are not as virtuous as may first 
> >be perceived.
 
> Isolation? Phooey. You already have that, and you are openly
> advocating using the entire net to spread your racist
> propaganda. You don't want "isolation," Mr. Kleim, you want
> mainline exposure. More "unaware and ignorant" users for you to
> propagandize.

Do you object to my lurking in, and occasioally posting to, more than one or 
two newsgroups?  Apparently.  Can you explain WHY I shouldn't be allowed 
to post to several newsgroups, provided my comments are on topic?  Can 
you explain why it is alright for you to harrass people on groups where 
they wish to discuss things they enjoy, like you did to Reverend Schoedel 
on the country music group?  If you didn't like his favorite artists, 
fine, disagree with him, but what gives you the right to start a 
_political_ flame war on a REC. group?

> What is it you feel they must be "unaware and ignorant" of,
> Mr. Kleim? Your vicious political agenda?

Like most Americans interested in politics, I have strong opinions about 
the events and figures in the political scene of today.  Is there 
something wrong with sharing my views with others via USENET?  Is there 
something wrong with sharing my views with others by informing them of my 
friends' Websites?  Heck, I even tell them about YOUR Website.

If you wish to learn more about our "vicious political agenda," check out:

http://www.io.com/~wlp/
http://www.natvan.com/
http://stormfront.wat.com/stormfront/

Be forewarned, though, that the material you find is RADICAL, and may 
cause you to think.

> >> _This_ is what your "National Alliance" stands for?
 
> >What does the National Alliance have to do with rec.music.white-power?
 
> It advocates hatred, Mr. Kleim, and so does the music.

I guess if you want to be so negative in all things, Mr. Mcvay, you can 
say the Alliance "advocates hatred."

The National Alliance advocates "hatred" of crime and corruption.  The 
Alliance advocates hatred of the criminals who have sold out America and 
the American worker for Third World capitalist ventures.  The Alliance 
advocates hatred of people who promote genocide of White Nations through 
abortion, planned economic calamity, etc.

However, if one is more keen on seeing the world in a more positive 
light, the National Alliance promotes love of the White Race.  The 
Alliance promotes love of America.  The Alliance promotes good wages and 
decent homes for American families.  The Alliance promotes love of honor, 
civic duty, sense of community and responsibility.

Perhaps maybe you don't like those things, Mr. Mcvay?

> >The National Alliance is a political activist organization, which has no 
> >interest in the creation of the proposed newsgroup.  Perhaps you are just 
> >grasping for straws, Mr. Mcvay, and attempting to generate innunendo about 
> >myself in a pathetic effort to divert attention from the genuine issues 
> >relating to this RFD?
 
> "I will lie when it suits me." Milton Kleim

Oh, you're too funny, Ken.

When did you invent THIS quote?

> >archives, a project which has as a foremost goal the monitoring and 
> >electronic stalking of individuals whom Mr. Mcvay and his handlers 
> >disagree with.
 
> Handlers, Mr. Kleim? Who might my "handlers" be? No man
> handles me, Mr. Kleim. A friend said of me last year "he is
> the most single-minded man I've ever met," and he's absolutely
> right. I am also ferociously, rigidly independant, Mr. Kleim,
> as anyone who knows me will tell you. Your lies simply won't
> wash.

Who funds the Nizkor Project?  Why did you quit your job at the gas station?
Do not Jewish groups and their representatives from around North America 
support you, and give you "suggestions" on how to "fight the haters"?  
Who funded and prepared your speaking escapade in Ontario last year?

Even the most independent person can have "mentors" and "guides."  Mr. 
Mcvay's are Jewish political activists.  And they "handle" Mr. Mcvay by 
giving him "goodies," whose continued receipt implicitly depends upon his 
effective "activism."

> >Mr. Mcvay represents the worst fears of every freedom-minded USENET surfer.
> >Mr. Mcvay represents the prototypical "Net Police" which, mistakenly,
> >are thought by most to only be a _proposal_ by various adherents of 
> >McCarthyism.  The Net Police are here -- NOW -- and Mr. Mcvay is the most 
> >well-known.  He finds it his duty to follow people around the Net, 
> >without regard for generally-accepted USENET convention.  He recently 
> >invaded rec.music.country, and in violation of its charter, began heated 
> >_political_ diatribes on it.

> That's hilarious, Mr. Kleim, and typically hypocritical.

I'm sorry you're so cynical you find this funny.  It's absolutely true.

> >have nothing to hide.  And also check out the hundreds of other 
> >"dossiers" -- his word -- in directories such as ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/
> >pub/fascism/dossier/ on Mr. Mcvay's system.  Mr. Mcvay's mentors, J. 
> >Edgar Hoover, and Joe McCarthy, would be proud.

> Hoover and McCarthy were dishonourable men, just like you, Mr.
> Kleim. My mentors, I assure you, were my twelve years of
> digital communications. Each one taught me something, as each
> one in the future will. Your innuendo won't wash.

Well, if you DIDN'T read up on McCarthyism, I apologize.  But then, 
you're a brilliant investigator who "just happened" to emulate these men.  
You should have quit your job at the gas station long ago, and joined the 
RCMP...or maybe CSIS.  They can use people like you.

> >If you would like to research the REALITY behind one of the leading White 
> >Power music distributors, please check out http://www.resistance.com/
> 
> Owned by one George Burdi, of "You gas 'em real good" fame - a
> former "reverend" in the "Church of the Creator," former Klan
> recruiter, Heritage Front leader, and convicted felon. A
> 225-pound man convicted of kicking a 110-pound woman in the
> face with a steel-toed boot, and breaking her nose. A man who
> said, on CBC's Prime Time News Magazine, a national
> documentary, that he used his music to recruit. He discussed
> how many times a child would hear the words "white power" if
> he listened to a certain song a number of times in a day.

Your distortions NEVER stop, do they Ken?  Mr. Burdi was held culpable, 
because he was allegedly in the presence of the act, yes, but he did NOT 
kick a 110 pound female in the face.

You wouldn't happen to have a citation to this CBC program, would you?  
It's kind of convenient to cite a television program, since most people 
don't have access to verify such claims.

> Mr. Burdi's role in Canada's hate movement, as a Heritage
> Front leader, is thoroughly documented in the Canadian
> Security and Intelligence Review Committee's Report to the
> Solicitor-General of Canada regarding "The Heritage Front
> Affair." This document may be read via URL
 
> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/canadian/sirc/heritage-front/

CSIS, the group that funds racist groups to create "job security."  They 
have a _real_ good reputation, Mr. Mcvay.

> In closing, I would like to quote you, Mr. Kleim:
 
> Subject: _On Tactics and Strategy for USENET_

As stated above, don't bother with the excerpts, just read the whole 
thing.  You might learn something useful.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan  7 12:09:48 PST 1996
Article: 116382 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 14:44:51 GMT
Lines: 34

Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) writes:

>> Ken Mcvay replies to me:
 
>> > "I will lie when it suits me." Milton Kleim
 
>> Oh, you're too funny, Ken.

>> When did you invent THIS quote?
 
> I don't know if Ken's quote is accurate or not. I _do_ know that the
> following quote is, Kleim:
 
>> I have not lied about my beliefs, my research, or anything else of
>> importance.  But I _will_ use harmless deception (an acceptable
>> tactic sanctioned by every sane political thinker since Plato) if it
>> is to tactical advantage.
 
> In other words, you will lie when it suits you.

First we had Mcvay acting alone.  Now we have conspiracy.

I challenge you to _prove_ I said that.  I contest this "quotation" as
being more hot air from you, Mr. Brown.

Both "quotations" are from Mcvay and friends' "bag o' tricks."

-- Milton Kleim

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan  7 12:09:49 PST 1996
Article: 116383 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net> <4ckdek$c1c@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> 
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 14:50:22 GMT
Lines: 21

Russ Allbery comments on Arun Malik's post:

>> P.S.  Since Mr. Kleim seems fairly knowledgeable about Usenet (as can
>> be seen by reading his policy statement)  I fully expect another
>> battle front in this RFD will erupt when he insists on a secret vote. 
 
> If he asks for such a thing, he'll be told that it's not allowed on
> Usenet.

We have nothing to hide.  I have no problem with a public vote, which I
understood from the beginning was the procedure.

We will deal with harassment of "yes" voters in the appropriate, legal way.

-- Milton Kleim

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 11:57:29 PST 1996
Article: 116527 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net> <4ckdek$c1c@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>   <4cmkh9$h2m@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>  
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:09:00 GMT
Lines: 24

Stephanie Smith (mspompom@mtcc.com) writes:

>> I think you're a bit worried that WE will
>> mobilize more than enough to succeed during the CFV.
 
> Since when do people "mobilize" during a regular newsgroup creation
> process?

Since newsgroups were first created.

Maybe you could explain why the readers of the homosexual groups are
encouraged to be notified of my RFD?  Couldn't be to "mobilize" some
opposition against us?

> Congratulations, Kleim. You just tipped your hand.

I think it's your side that has made your politically-motivated agenda known
very clearly.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 11:57:30 PST 1996
Article: 116532 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:    
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:28:54 GMT
Lines: 53

Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) writes:

[alleged e-mail deleted]

> I know you sent this, Kleim.

Some people do have hallucinations, Mr. Brown.

> You know you sent this, Kleim. 

Hmmm....  You can read minds, too?

> Can I provide any independent truth you said this? No. Nor do I care. We
> both know what you are. If you choose to deny it in public, fine. That
> doesn't change what you are: a liar and coward.

Nor do I really care either.  The only reason I respond to this post is
because I want to draw attention to it.  You illustrate exactly what I and
my friends have to put up with, and what a threat to the entire USENET
community people like you are.

There would be _NO_ "war" on USENET if it weren't for you and your allies
engaging in tactics of a militant nature.  I joined the USENET community
in 1993, and _from day one_, over 15 months before I even contemplated
writing "Tactics," your fellows engaged in deception, innuendo, and other
dirty tricks.  All I was doing is putting forth a controversial viewpoint,
and I was literally attacked in the most debased ways.  People with _your_
viewpoint, Mr. Brown, lack the tolerance you accuse us of having.  

The creation of rec.music.white-power is something which we are attempting
because there are hundreds of people on USENET who enjoy this music.  But
just as in October 1993, the self-appointed Net Police have activated
their army of minions to extend their war on USENET, not merely to
following people around, and spreading distortions and outright lies, but
to challenge directly the whole purpose of USENET.  IF they get their way,
and defeat us "Nazis," they just won't close up shop, and go away. 

They'll find _another_ target...

Mr. Brown and Mcvay and everyone else are opposing rmwp not because
"there's no need" for it, but rather because they want to impose _their_
beliefs, _their_ will, upon others.

There's a word for that:  fascism.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent of rec.music.white-power

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 11:57:31 PST 1996
Article: 116533 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: it'll be a cold day in hell
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <4cnunk$3fp@cnn.Princeton.EDU>  <4cp2lv$i6m@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:35:33 GMT
Lines: 35

Christopher B. Stone (cbstone@flagstaff.princeton.edu) writes:

> Yes, but -- to make his point crystal clear -- the idea is that we cannot 
> simply look the other way every time a hate group demands equal time.  In 
> unstable countries with weak institutions (like Weimar Germany), this 
> could lead to the overthrow of the government.  Fortunately, we in the 
> USA and Western Europe have stable governments and strong institutions, 
> but even so, looking the other way is wrong, both inherently and because 
> it can lead to an increase in hate crimes.

On the contrary, Mr. Stone.  Free speech allows people to vent their anger
and their discontent.

Forcing people to shut up, like forcing a safety valve shut on a pressure
cooker, leads to rather unfortunate results.

The bottom line is: if people are not allowed to _say_ something, they're
very likely to wind up _doing_ something.

I don't want to see violence.  Everyone suffers from it.  That's one of
the reasons I support free speech, even for my opponents.  I'd rather hear
the vicious and sometimes obscene insults from the "anti-racists" than
have them contemplate fire-bombing someone's house.

The revolution you speak of, Mr. Stone, will not come because of freedom.
It will be initated because of repression.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 11:57:32 PST 1996
Article: 116534 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Music.White-Power YES..Freedom Of Speech
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cplls$gjp@ping1.ping.be> <4cq7j1$4hk@news1.usa.pipeline.com> 
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:47:33 GMT
Lines: 39

Jenn Starkman (bb374@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:

> What the United States allows or doesn't allow is completely irrelevant to
> this debate.  The Usenet is not a part of the United States.  It is forum
> which is completely international in scope, and not subject solely to the
> laws or popular ideals of the United States.

Since this RFD was posted from Canada, the Laws of Canada apply.  And last
time I checked, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guaranteed
"everyone" the right to express their opinions using all forms of media.

USENET is international in scope, yes, but it's survival is also dependent
upon the American Ideal it was founded upon: Free Speech.  The
popularity of USENET in countries where repression reigns largely
reflects the appreciation people under those systems have for American
Ideals.

If certain regimes like Germany's oppose free speech, too bad.  Let them
forego USENET feeds, and the whole Internet as well...

And then be overthrown, or relegated to the trash heap of history, as the
rest of the world glories in the product of America's Liberty.

> The U.S. is only *one* ocountries have "hate laws" and other restrictions
> of their own against filth like that being proposed.  To be democratic (a
> popular ideal amongst Americans, I believe), you have to take them *all*
> into account.

We're not talking about so-called "hate crimes," Miss Starkman.  We're
talking about enjoying music.

-- Milton Kleim
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 16:36:13 PST 1996
Article: 116537 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: WHO ARE THE REAL NAZIS?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cr1gt$tm1@hawk.pix.za> <4cqtiv$a4@sundog.tiac.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:07:48 GMT
Lines: 63

Modemac (modemac@netcom.com) writes:

> There's one basic flaw in this argument: the white-power people
> ALREADY have several newsgroups in which they can post anything they
> want.

There's one basic flaw in YOUR argument.  The three "White Power" groups
deal with matters other than music.

alt.politics.nationalism.white = self-explanatory
alt.politics.white-power = self-explanatory
alt.skinheads = mostly about lifestyles and paraphrenalia

By your argument, one could say rec.music.rem would not be necessary since
there's already alt.society.generation-x.

> No one is trying to keep the white supremacists from saying what they
> want to say. 

Certainly Mr. Mcvay, et.al., are conspiring to use illicit tactics to
subvert the USENET group creation process.  By their own admissions, they
have no interest in discussing the genre, and therefore have no legitimate
interest in the group.

> Personally, my opposition to the newsgroup comes from a belief that
> the white supremacists are trying a deceptive tactic here.  Under the
> guise of a "music" newsgroup - which was not proposed on any of the
> currently existing music newsgroups - they are trying to create a
> "mainstream" white-power newsgroup.

Is there something wrong with seeking a rec. group rather than an alt.
group?  And just why are you guys so hysterically opposed to a _rec._
group when most of you implicitly, some explicity, support an _alt._
group?  It's not about _control_ over what people read and discuss, is it?

apnw came about largely because of a proposal put forth for a "soc.culture.
euro-american" by myself and others.  There was a need then for a mainline
European-American group, but we compromised and agreed to withdraw our
scea proposal.  We later came to realize _why_ our opponents wanted us to
have an _alt._ group, when many systems booted apnw and apwp off their
systems last year, for no reason other than they didn't like what was
being discussed.

This time we're not going to settle for a second-class group.  We have the
support, and the need is clear (to those who don't let their politics
cloud their perspective).  We seek REC.music.white-power, not ALT.music.
white-power.

> If a rec.music.white-power newsgroups is created, it will be just like
> all the other white-power newsgroups.  It will be filled with flames
> from neo-Nazis and those who oppose them.

And WHO might start that?

Certainly not those who are supporting rmwp.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp
--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 16:36:13 PST 1996
Article: 116538 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: White Power Music Newsgroup...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cokef$oca@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4cr7pv$ra2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:11:46 GMT
Lines: 24

MichaelNce (michaelnce@aol.com) writes:

> Gotham13@aol.com  argues for the creation of the rec.music.white-power
> newsgroup.

> Its very interesting that every person from AOL who has posted in support
> of this group does not have a profile on AOL and does not sign there
> posts.

> I wonder why they hide themselves?

Because people like you seek to harass and intimidate them.

Others, like myself, can take the heat, and also have the means to counter
such harassment when it occurs.

-- Milton Kleim
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan  8 16:36:14 PST 1996
Article: 116541 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: We must have rec.music.white-power.
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4cpaab$3eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4cpbng$m5f@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:21:27 GMT
Lines: 18

Christopher B. Stone (cbstone@flagstaff.princeton.edu) writes:

> I do claim, however, that Usenet will be a worse place if we permit the
> creation of this group.

How?  Why?

If rmwp succeeds, most of the discussions about the music you and your
friends don't like will occur on their own specific group, which you can
endeavor to avoid.

-- MJK

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From dshaw@pegasus.rutgers.edu Thu Jan 11 02:23:49 PST 1996
Article: 116852 of news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!pegasus.rutgers.edu!not-for-mail
From: dshaw@pegasus.rutgers.edu (David Shaw)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Kleim's white-power dirty tricks
Date: 11 Jan 1996 01:06:41 -0500
Organization: Rutgers University
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4d29dh$h6@pegasus.rutgers.edu>
References:  <4crtkt$1ef@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <1996Jan9.132831.122@ircam.fr> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pegasus.rutgers.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Milton Kleim (bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

: I invite you, and others, to check out the alt.music. and rec.music. groups
: which Mr. Mcvay suggested would be suitable venue for White Power music
: discussions.  I posted a message explaining Mr. Mcvay's "suggestion," and
: people are posting some rather negative, sometimes unpleasant comments,
: about Mr. Mcvay's idea, and Mr. Mcvay himself.  

You sleazy redolent turd.  You posted a note implying that McVay was in 
*favor* of the racist garbage, and you were the poor little net.defender, 
trying to stop him.  Even your subject line ("Is this group suitable for 
RACIST music discussions?") is misleading.

For those of you who didn't check, Kleim 
posted this: (Message-ID: )

----
Mr. Ken Mcvay (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) has suggested that THIS
newsgroup is suitable for discussions of White Power, racist music,
including the works of bands like Nordic Thunder, Aryan, and RaHoWa
(Racial Holy War).

If you agree with Ken, please post your support here.

If you DISAGREE with Ken, please mail him at:

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Tell him your thoughts about his suggestion.

And, please post your support of the creation of rec.music.white-power to
news.groups.
---

Basically, the post was an attempt to get Ken mailbombed, and/or discredited.

Miltie, many people have asked over and over again.  You still HAVEN'T 
DEMONSTRATED A NEED for the group!  *Where* are the numbers?  Dirty 
tricks won't help your lost cause.

David


From rra@cs.stanford.edu Thu Jan 11 08:34:47 PST 1996
Article: 27652 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!usenet
From: Russ Allbery 
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: Continued violations of RFD reply convention
Date: 06 Jan 1996 12:37:26 -0800
Organization: The Eyrie
Lines: 18
Sender: eagle@cyclone.Stanford.EDU
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclone.stanford.edu
In-reply-to: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:30:13
	GMT
X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1

Milton Kleim  writes:

> Mr. Ken Mcvay of the Nizkor Project has repeatedly violated the
> convention governing RFD follow-ups, even after being asked to limit his
> follow-ups to news.groups.

Mr. Klein, violation of that is common and is definitely not net-abuse.
Furthermore, several people on your side are responding to articles
Mr. McVay has posted elsewhere and crossposting their replies to
news.groups.  I would encourage you to clean up your own camp first.

Furthermore, just because there is a group of us who consider it unethical
to oppose any newsgroup solely on the basis of subject matter, that does
not mean we are at all sympathetic to your racist propaganda.  Don't push
it.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@cs.stanford.edu)     http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~rra/


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 15 16:32:23 PST 1996
Article: 642 of alt.society.civil-disob
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-disob
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: The Truth About "Reverend" King
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 04:53:01 GMT
Lines: 306

THE BEAST AS SAINT: THE TRUTH ABOUT "MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR."
  
By Kevin Alfred Strom
 

   When the Communists took over a country, one of the first things that
   they did was to confiscate all the privately-held weapons, to deny the
   people the physical ability to resist tyranny. But even more insidious
   than the theft of the people's weapons was the theft of their history.
   Official Communist "historians" rewrote history to fit the current
   party line. In many countries, revered national heroes were excised
   from the history books, or their real deeds were distorted to fit
   Communist ideology, and Communist killers and criminals were converted
   into official "saints." Holidays were declared in honor of the beasts
   who murdered countless nations.

   Did you know that much the same process has occurred right here in
   America?

   Every January, the media go into a kind of almost spastic frenzy of
   adulation for the so-called "Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr."
   King has even had a national holiday declared in his honor, an honor
   accorded to NO OTHER AMERICAN, not Washington, not Jefferson, not
   Lincoln (Washington and Lincoln no longer have holidays -- they share
   the generic-sounding "President's Day."). A liberal judge has sealed
   the FBI files on King until the year 2027. What are they hiding? Let's
   take a look at this modern-day plastic god.

   Born in 1929, King was the son of a Black preacher known at the time
   only as "Daddy King." "Daddy King" named his son Michael. In 1935,
   "Daddy King" had an inspiration to name himself after the Protestant
   reformer Martin Luther. He declared to his congregation that
   henceforth they were to refer to him as "Martin Luther King" and to
   his son as "Martin Luther King, Jr." None of this name changing was
   ever legalized in court. "Daddy" King's son's real name is to this day
   Michael King.


King's Brazen Cheating


   We read in Michael Hoffman's "Holiday for a Cheater":

   The first public sermon that King ever gave, in 1947 at the Ebenezer
   Baptist Church, was plagiarized from a homily by Protestant clergyman
   Harry Emerson Fosdick entitled "Life is What You Make It," according
   to the testimony of King's best friend of that time, Reverend Larry H.
   Williams. The first book that King wrote, "Stride Toward Freedom,"
   was plagiarized from numerous sources, all unattributed, according to
   documentation recently assembled by sympathetic King scholars Keith D.
   Miller, Ira G. Zepp, Jr., and David J. Garrow. And no less an
   authoritative source than the four senior editors of "The Papers of
   Martin Luther King, Jr." (an official publication of the Martin
   Luther King Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Inc., whose staff
   includes King's widow Coretta), stated of King's writings at both
   Boston University and Crozer Theological Seminary: "Judged
   retroactively by the standards of academic scholarship, [his writings]
   are tragically flawed by numerous instances of plagiarism....
   Appropriated passages are particularly evident in his writings in his
   major field of graduate study, systematic theology." King's essay,
   "The Place of Reason and Experience in Finding God," written at
   Crozer, pirated passages from the work of theologian Edgar S.
   Brightman, author of "The Finding of God."  Another of King's theses,
   "Contemporary Continental Theology," written shortly after he entered
   Boston University, was largely stolen from a book by Walter Marshall
   Horton. King's doctoral dissertation, "A Comparison of the Conceptions
   of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Harry Nelson Wieman," for
   which he was awarded a Ph.D. in theology, contains more than fifty
   complete sentences plagiarized from the Ph.D. dissertation of Dr. Jack
   Boozer, "The Place of Reason in Paul Tillich's Concept of God."
   According to "The Martin Luther King Papers," in King's dissertation
   "only 49 per cent of sentences in the section on Tillich contain five
   or more words that were King's own...."! In "The Journal of American
   History", June 1991, page 87, David J. Garrow, a leftist academic who
   is sympathetic to King, says that King's wife, Coretta Scott King, who
   also served as his secretary, was an accomplice in his repeated
   cheating. Reading Garrow's article, one is led to the inescapable
   conclusion that King cheated because he had chosen for himself a
   political role in which a Ph.D. would be useful, and, lacking the
   intellectual ability to obtain the title fairly, went after it by any
   means necessary. Why, then, one might ask, did the professors at
   Crozer Theological Seminary and Boston University grant him passing
   grades and a Ph.D.?  Garrow states on page 89: "King's academic
   compositions, especially at Boston University, were almost without
   exception little more than summary descriptions... and comparisons of
   other's writings. Nonetheless, the papers almost always received
   desirable letter grades, strongly suggesting that King's professors
   did not expect more...." The editors of "The Martin Luther King Jr.
   Papers" state that "...the failure of King's teachers to notice his
   pattern of textual appropriation is somewhat remarkable...."

   But researcher Michael Hoffman tells us "...actually the malfeasance
   of the professors is not at all remarkable. King was politically
   correct, he was Black, and he had ambitions. The leftist [professors
   were] happy to award a doctorate to such a candidate no matter how
   much fraud was involved. Nor is it any wonder that it has taken forty
   years for the truth about King's record of nearly constant
   intellectual piracy to be made public."

   Supposed scholars, who in reality shared King's vision of a racially
   mixed and Marxist America, purposely covered up his cheating for
   decades. The cover-up still continues. From the "New York Times" of
   October 11, 1991, page 15, we learn that on October 10th of that year,
   a committee of researchers at Boston University admitted that, "There
   is no question but that Dr. King plagiarized in the dissertation."
   However, despite its finding, the committee said that "No thought
   should be given to the revocation of Dr. King's doctoral degree," an
   action the panel said "would serve no purpose."

   No purpose, indeed! Justice demands that, in light of his willful
   fraud as a student, the "reverend" and the "doctor" should be removed
   from King's name.


Communist Beliefs and Connections


   Well friends, he is not a legitimate reverend, he is not a bona fide
   Ph.D., and his name isn't really "Martin Luther King, Jr." What's left?
   Just a sexual degenerate, an America-hating Communist, and a criminal
   betrayer of even the interests of his own people.

   On Labor Day, 1957, a special meeting was attended by Martin Luther
   King and four others at a strange institution called the Highlander
   Folk School in Monteagle, Tennessee. The Highlander Folk School was a
   Communist front, having been founded by Myles Horton (Communist Party
   organizer for Tennessee) and Don West (Communist Party organizer for
   North Carolina). The leaders of this meeting with King were the
   aforementioned Horton and West, along with Abner Berry and James
   Dumbrowski, all open and acknowledged members of the Communist Party,
   USA. The agenda of the meeting was a plan to tour the Southern states
   to initiate demonstrations and riots.

   From 1955 to 1960, Martin Luther King's associate, advisor, and
   personal secretary was one Bayard Rustin. In 1936 Rustin joined the
   Young Communist League at New York City College. Convicted of
   draft-dodging, he went to prison for two years in 1944. On January 23,
   1953 the "Los Angeles Times" reported his conviction and sentencing to
   jail for 60 days for lewd vagrancy and homosexual perversion. Rustin
   attended the 16th Convention of the Communist Party, USA in February,
   1957. One month later, he and King founded the Southern Christian
   Leadership Conference, or SCLC for short. The president of the SCLC
   was Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The vice-president of the SCLC was the
   Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, who was also the president of an
   identified Communist front known as the Southern Conference
   Educational Fund, an organization whose field director, a Mr. Carl
   Braden, was simultaneously a national sponsor of the Fair Play for
   Cuba Committee, of which you may have heard. The program director of
   the SCLC was the Reverend Andrew Young, in more recent years Jimmy
   Carter's ambassador to the UN and mayor of Atlanta. Young, by the way,
   was trained at the Highlander Folk School, previously mentioned.

   Soon after returning from a trip to Moscow in 1958, Rustin organized
   the first of King's famous marches on Washington. The official organ
   of the Communist Party, "The Worker," openly declared the march to
   be a Communist project. Although he left King's employ as secretary in
   1961, Rustin was called upon by King to be second in command of the
   much larger march on Washington which took place on August 28, 1963.

   Bayard Rustin's replacement in 1961 as secretary and advisor to King
   was Jack O'Dell, also known as Hunter Pitts O'Dell. According to
   official records, in 1962 Jack O'Dell was a member of the National
   Committee of the Communist Party, USA. He had been listed as a
   Communist Party member as early as 1956. O'Dell was also given the job
   of acting executive director for SCLC activities for the entire
   Southeast, according to the St. Louis "Globe-Democrat" of October
   26, 1962. At that time, there were still some patriots in the press
   corps, and word of O'Dell's party membership became known.

   What did King do? Shortly after the negative news reports, King fired
   O'Dell with much fanfare. And he then, without the fanfare,
   "immediately hired him again- - as director of the New York office of
   the SCLC, as confirmed by the "Richmond News-Leader" of September
   27, 1963. In 1963 a Black man from Monroe, North Carolina named Robert
   Williams made a trip to Beijing, China. Exactly 20 days before King's
   1963 march on Washington, Williams successfully urged Mao Tse-Tung to
   speak out on behalf of King's movement. Mr. Williams was also around
   this time maintaining his primary residence in Cuba, from which he
   made regular broadcasts to the southern US, three times a week, from
   high-power AM transmitters in Havana under the title "Radio Free
   Dixie." In these broadcasts, he urged violent attacks by Blacks
   against White Americans.

   During this period, Williams wrote a book entitled "Negroes With
   Guns." The writer of the foreword for this book? None other than
   Martin Luther King, Jr. It is also interesting to note that the
   editors and publishers of this book were to a man all supporters of
   the infamous Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

   According to King's biographer and sympathizer David J. Garrow, "King
   privately described himself as a Marxist." In his 1981 book, "The FBI
   and Martin Luther King, Jr.", Garrow quotes King as saying in SCLC
   staff meetings, "...we have moved into a new era, which must be an era
   of revolution.... The whole structure of American life must be
   changed.... We are engaged in the class struggle."

   Jewish Communist Stanley Levison can best be described as King's
   behind-the-scenes "handler." Levison, who had for years been in charge
   of the secret funnelling of Soviet funds to the Communist Party, USA,
   was King's mentor and was actually the brains behind many of King's
   more successful ploys. It was Levison who edited King's book, "Stride
   Toward Freedom." It was Levison who arranged for a publisher. Levison
   even prepared King's income tax returns! It was Levison who really
   controlled the fund-raising and agitation activities of the SCLC.
   Levison wrote many of King's speeches. King described Levison as one
   of his "closest friends."


FBI: King Bought Sex With SCLC Money


   The Federal Bureau of Investigation had for many years been aware of
   Stanley Levison's Communist activities. It was Levison's close
   association with King that brought about the initial FBI interest in
   King.

   Lest you be tempted to believe the controlled media's lie about
   "racists" in the FBI being out to "get" King, you should be aware that
   the man most responsible for the FBI's probe of King was Assistant
   Director William C. Sullivan. Sullivan describes himself as a liberal,
   and says that initially "I was one hundred per cent for King...because
   I saw him as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people
   in their desire for civil rights." The probe of King not only
   confirmed their suspicions about King's Communist beliefs and
   associations, but it also revealed King to be a despicable hypocrite,
   an immoral degenerate, and a worthless charlatan.

   According to Assistant Director Sullivan, who had direct access to the
   surveillance files on King which are denied the American people, King
   had embezzled or misapplied substantial amounts of money contributed
   to the "civil rights" movement. King used SCLC funds to pay for
   liquor, and numerous prostitutes both Black and White, who were
   brought to his hotel rooms, often two at a time, for drunken sex
   parties which sometimes lasted for several days. These types of
   activities were the norm for King's speaking and organizing tours.

   In fact, an outfit called The National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis,
   Tennessee, which is putting on display the two bedrooms from the
   Lorraine Motel where King stayed the night before he was shot, has
   declined to depict in any way the "occupants" of those rooms.
   "That," according to exhibit designer Gerard Eisterhold, "would be close
   to blasphemy." The reason? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. spent his last
   night on Earth having sex with two women at the motel and physically
   beating and abusing a third.

   Sullivan also stated that King had alienated the affections of
   numerous married women. According to Sullivan, who in 30 years with
   the Bureau had seen everything there was to be seen of the seamy side
   of life, King was one of only seven people he had ever encountered who
   was such a total degenerate.

   Noting the violence that almost invariably attended King's supposedly
   "non-violent" marches, Sullivan's probe revealed a very different King
   from the carefully crafted public image. King welcomed members of many
   different Black groups as members of his SCLC, many of them advocates
   and practitioners of violence. King's only admonition on the subject
   was that they should embrace "tactical nonviolence."

   Sullivan also relates an incident in which King met in a financial
   conference with Communist Party representatives, not knowing that one
   of the participants was an infiltrator actually working for the FBI.

   J. Edgar Hoover personally saw to it that documented information on
   King's Communist connections was provided to the President and to
   Congress. And conclusive information from FBI files was also provided
   to major newspapers and news wire services. But were the American
   people informed of King's real nature? No, for even in the 1960s, the
   fix was in the controlled media and the bought politicians were bound
   and determined to push their racial mixing program on America. King
   was their man and nothing was going to get in their way. With a few
   minor exceptions, these facts have been kept from the American people.
   The pro-King propaganda machine grinds on, and it is even reported
   that a serious proposal has been made to add some of King's writings
   as a new book in the Bible.

   Ladies and gentlemen, the purpose of this essay is far greater
   than to prove to you the immorality and subversion of this man called
   King. I want you to start to think for yourselves. I want you to
   consider this: What are the forces and motivation behind the
   controlled media's active promotion of King? What does it tell you
   about our politicians when you see them, almost without exception,
   falling all over themselves to honor King as a national hero? What
   does it tell you about our society when any public criticism of this
   moral leper and Communist functionary is considered grounds for
   dismissal? What does it tell you about the controlled media when you
   see how they have successfully suppressed the truth and held out a
   picture of King that can only be described as a colossal lie? You need
   to think, my fellow Americans. You desperately need to wake up.


For more information:

National Vanguard Books
PO Box 330
Hillsboro WV  24946

(304) 653-4600

http://www.io.com/~wlp/
http://www.natvan.com/

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Jan 16 08:48:28 PST 1996
Article: 11468 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!winternet.com!interactive.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news2.acs.oakland.edu!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Ken McVey, lets get in on you pussy!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4dckg3$moe@news-f.iadfw.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:56:12 GMT
Lines: 29
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.skinheads:9833 alt.politics.white-power:14944 alt.politics.nationalism.white:11468

Bootboy (bootboy@airmail.net) writes:

> Hey Ken boy. I saw your shit on the FTP site about me. Im going to 
> fuck you in your ass when I catch you. Plain and simple. I'm NOT
> a computer nerd. Ill make good on you. You'll be begging for KY.
 
> Im a fucking crazy Skinhead. I dont care about shit! Pucker up boy.
 
> -Bootboy-    88/14

On behalf of all Internet Aryan Corps members, I must say this post is
completely inappropriate and unproductive.

My feelings about and perception of Mcvay are well-known, but I have no
desire for, or advocacy of, assaults against Mcvay's person.  Exposing his
activities and relevant personal characteristics, such as his gas station
career, are approrpiate.  Implied threats are uncalled for and
unacceptable. 

Bootboy's comments are unbefitting a true Aryan, and do not reflect the
sentiments of my comrades or I.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jan 17 00:40:12 PST 1996
Article: 11536 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Ken McVey, lets get in on you pussy!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4dckg3$moe@news-f.iadfw.net>  
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:23:33 GMT
Lines: 39
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:15038 alt.politics.nationalism.white:11536 alt.skinheads:9869

Jeanne Kowalewski (jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu) writes:

> * On behalf of all Internet Aryan Corps members,
 
> Oh, a satellite of CLOC has sproinged forth? Do tell, Miltie!

Before there was CLOC, there was Kleim.  

CLOC's activities are largely adopted from my experience distilled in "On
Tactics and Strategy for USENET."

I am a satellite of no one.  The Aryan Corps are the comrades who follow
the advice of "Tactics."  CLOC members can be part of the Aryan Corps, but
we are not part of CLOC.

> * Bootboy's comments are unbefitting a true Aryan, and do not reflect the
> * sentiments of my comrades or I.
 
> Heh. If McVay was a 110 lb. woman instead of an ex-Marine, your comrades
> might not act so honorably. Tell me, if Bootboy's threat was not
> homosexual in nature, would you have been so quick in disavowing it? I
> suppose implied threats using references to lampposts and nooses for Jews,
> liberals, mudpeople and race-traitors are more befitting you and your
> comrades.

1) Burdi did not provoke the incident that resulted in the little agitator
   getting injured.

2) I have never made references to "lampposts and nooses for Jews,
   liberals, mudpeople and race-traitors."

3) I do not make implied threats against innocent persons and/or those
   who disagree with and/or irritate me (like Mcvay).

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From joelr@winternet.com Wed Jan 17 15:15:00 PST 1996
Article: 11555 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!winternet.com!Fred!joelr
From: joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Ken McVey, lets get in on you pussy!
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:56:11
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <4dckg3$moe@news-f.iadfw.net>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-66-137.dialup.winternet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:15063 alt.politics.nationalism.white:11555 alt.skinheads:9894

Milton "Mortie" Kleim, admitted Nazi and admitted liar, writes:


>1) Burdi did not provoke the incident that resulted in the little agitator
>   getting injured.

The court decided he was culpable.  Fortunately for Canada, Kleim doesn't run 
the Canadian courts.

>2) I have never made references to "lampposts and nooses for Jews,
>   liberals, mudpeople and race-traitors."

As to what you've said, it's largely at Nizkor.  People can decide for 
themselves what you've said, and what you've meant, as have the folks who've 
snubbed you on various echoes, say, like mn.politics.  

(Kleim's discovered, to his apparent distress -- he pouts a lot about it -- 
that when he's identified as lying Nazi, most decent people don't want to have 
much to do with him.)  


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Rosenberg   |   joelr@winternet.com   |   http://www.winternet.com/~joelr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I marvel at the resilience of the Jewish people. 
Their best characteristic is their desire to remember. 
No other people has such an obsession with memory.
				-- Elie Wiesel


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jan 17 15:52:06 PST 1996
Article: 28687 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: alt.support.loneliness,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: This is absolutely disgusting (CLOC & asl)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:47:25 GMT
Lines: 36
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.support.loneliness:4327 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:28687

Some of you are well-aware of who I am.  For those who don't, I am the
most notorious racist on the Net.

However, I am appalled to find that the allegations by Quittner in the
_Time_ article (which quoted me) are not allegations.  I find it digusting
that a group of people, in the name of helping the Aryan Race, have laid
siege to this group for no productive reason whatsoever.

I find it painful to have to put myself in a position of possibly
alienating people who are purportedly on "my side," but the actions of
CLOC on this group have gone far enough.

I intend to put an end to it.  By whatever means are necessary.

I ask, as a fellow Aryan, that CLOC cease and desist from their harassment
of this group and its readers immediately.  What has been done is most
dishonorable, and for it to be done in the name of "saving the White Race"
(!?) is unconscionable.

If CLOC refuses to cease and desist voluntarily, I ask the assistance of
the USENET community to put an end to it, by the most expedient means.

CLOCers: there are hundreds of newsgroups where you could disseminate the
message of racial salvation.  For you to pick this group, and other groups
of a similar, non-political nature, is baffling to me.  Is it a matter of
cowardice that you choose a "helpless" group, rather than one like
soc.culture.jewish?

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Internet Aryan Corps

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jan 17 15:52:07 PST 1996
Article: 28802 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: alt.support.loneliness,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!istar.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: This is absolutely disgusting (CLOC & asl)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4dib7o$ak9@daryl.scsn.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:27:08 GMT
Lines: 63
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.support.loneliness:4330 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:28802

RaCiAL ThEoRiSt (xyz@scsn.net) writes:

>>However, I am appalled to find that the allegations by Quittner in the
>>_Time_ article (which quoted me) are not allegations.  I find it digusting
>>that a group of people, in the name of helping the Aryan Race, have laid
>siege to this group for no productive reason whatsoever.

> that's not exactly what's going on, milt.  CLOC is here for one reason
> only:  to help lonely people.  we are not trying to recruit new
> members here, and we aren't bashing lonely people.

Excuse the term, but that's bullshit.

What exactly _are_ you trying to do?  You have no business in alt.
support.loneliness.  You are NOT trying to help anyone.  IF you were, you
wouldn't be illicitly using anonymous remailers to post crap with different
screen names. 

There are hundreds of political groups you COULD post to, but you have
targetted only groups that have no relevance to the Cause you claim to uphold.

>>I find it painful to have to put myself in a position of possibly
>>alienating people who are purportedly on "my side," but the actions of
>>CLOC on this group have gone far enough.
 
>>I intend to put an end to it.  By whatever means are necessary.
 
>>I ask, as a fellow Aryan, that CLOC cease and desist from their harassment
>>of this group and its readers immediately.  What has been done is most
>>dishonorable, and for it to be done in the name of "saving the White Race"
>>(!?) is unconscionable.
 
> we aren't harassing anybody.

You most certainly are.  The group is not for political discussions.  The
presence of several CLOC posters there is far beyond coincidence.

>>If CLOC refuses to cease and desist voluntarily, I ask the assistance of
>>the USENET community to put an end to it, by the most expedient means.
 
>>CLOCers: there are hundreds of newsgroups where you could disseminate the
>>message of racial salvation.  For you to pick this group, and other groups
>>of a similar, non-political nature, is baffling to me.  Is it a matter of
>>cowardice that you choose a "helpless" group, rather than one like
>>soc.culture.jewish?
 
> we have preached a little about racism in the past, but we stopped
> awhile back.  i think it's pretty wild that you would believe every
> word of a _time_ magazine story before checking it out.  and that
> story did contain some inaccuracies.

I went over to alt.support.loneliness last night.  I HOPED Quittner was
mistaken or lying.  He wasn't.  It made me sick.  What you are doing is
the equivalent of raping civilians.  I will NOT tolerate it.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Internet Aryan Corps

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Jan 18 09:02:08 PST 1996
Article: 28876 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.imnet.ad.jp!news.join.ad.jp!news.caren.net!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: This is absolutely disgusting (CLOC & asl)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4djjps$jdi@shellx.best.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 01:53:09 GMT
Lines: 20

StukaFox (stukafox@shellx.best.com) writes:

>    Siddown, aswipse. YOU'RE the one who started this spamming crap
>    with your little manifesto.

BS.  As several neutral people have pointed out here and on news.groups,
"Tactics" says nothing about spamming.

>    So, Milty -- why did Hate pull your name off your little
>    "How to spam the Usenet FAQ" and put an arab-sounding
>    name on it instead? Or has that little scam been seen through
>    already?

What are you talking about?

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Jan 18 09:02:09 PST 1996
Article: 28892 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: alt.support.loneliness,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!cocoa.brown.edu!ride.ri.net!news3.near.net!paperboy.wellfleet.com!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: This is absolutely disgusting (CLOC & asl)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4dib7o$ak9@daryl.scsn.net> <4dkgho$337@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 05:44:33 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.support.loneliness:4336 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:28892

J.D. Dyson (jdyson@nyx10.cs.du.edu) writes:

> 	That's a lie, Milton.  Check out the CLOC home page.  On it, Mr.
> David Padgett (AKA - "R.C. Richards," "Racial Theorist," "Marcus Marlow,"
> et al) loudly brag about how they have "left in smoking ruins" several
> newsgroups...among which is alt.support.loneliness.

Yes, I know it is a lie.  CLOC has done unnecessary and inexcusable damage
to the USENET community by their actions.  Their actions are by no
legitimate definition "free speech."  There are _abusing_ free expression
in order to satisfy their own debased desires to laugh at people's
annoyance and misfortune.  CLOC had thousands of political groups they
could have posted endlessly to, but they chose a group where they would
get maximum "shock" effect -- merely to laugh at people's discomfort. 
"Racial Theorist" calls it "fun."

> 	They also brag about how their postmasters have received over "3500
> complaints" across the Internet.

I'm aware of this.  Perhaps "other measures" besides letters to the ISPs
are in order, if they refuse to respect my request to cease and desist?

NANAM readers: any ideas on how to smash the Cuckoo CLOC?

If CLOC succeeds in their "goals" (whatever they are; apparently cause
havoc on the hinterland groups), USENET is in danger.  

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Internet Aryan Corps

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan 19 01:31:15 PST 1996
Article: 28955 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: alt.support.loneliness,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: CLOC declares its intentions
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:27:47 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.support.loneliness:4339 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:28955

The following was posted to the Stormfront mailing list, in response to my
demand they cease and desist in their inappropriate activities:

FROM: Reuben Logsdon, co-founder of CLOC (nclearwntr@nclearwntr.seanet.com)

Milton writes:
 
>I have made a public request for CLOC to immediately cease and desist 
>their unproductive, inappropriate campaigns against groups they have no 
>business posting to, _especially_ in the name of the Aryan Race.  I know 
>there are CLOC members on this list, and they should convey my statements 
>to their "leaders."
 
White men have developed, built, and maintained the Internet since day one.
It is our birthright, my birthright.  Postings about White supremacy
*belong* in every newsgroup that exists.  The Carolinian Lords are not
invading newsgroups, we are *reclaiming* what has been created for us by our
forefathers.
 
Should anyone corrupt the Internet to the point that a White man can't log
on and discuss White supremacy at will, then I and the remainder of the
Carolinian Lords will consider it our right -- our *destiny* -- to destroy
the Internet entirely, preventing such a powerful tool from falling into the
hands of the Enemy.  We shall have an Ayan Internet or no Internet at all.
There is no middle ground!!
 
Milton, I know that you mean well, but this is war.  We will give no quarter.
 
Reuben
 
--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@freenet.carleton.ca Fri Jan 19 09:44:24 PST 1996
Article: 11861 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (eed6194db02311971bd73fd3f3ceaf2d)
From: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Return-Path: 
Reply-To: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 6:03:10 GMT
Message-ID: <822031390$9355@atype.com>
Subject: America's Fate: Beyond the Bounds of Time
Lines: 141


AMERICA'S FATE: BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF TIME

By Milton John Kleim, Jr.


For over two weeks, Rick had felt a man without a soul.  His emotions 
had roared, but now he knew his inner self was a burned-out shell.  Only 
his intense will kept him alive, and coupled with his worsening finances, 
kept him working.

Richard Thompson had presumed his 35th birthday would be a happy cele-
bration.  His life had fulfilled him; a beautiful, bright companion, 
loyal friends of diverse backgrounds, and despite his low salary, he 
couldn't help but be proud of his seven-year old career with Babcock & 
Wilcox.

But it all creeped up, as the iceberg deftly sailed in the path of the 
Titanic, akin to how the "calm before the storm" deadens the senses.

Grandma Thompson adored her only grandchild.  Her dying wish was that 
Rickie carry on her life-mate's family name through several grand-
children.  But Jen ended that on April 30th.

Beyond his wildest of nightmares, Jen's plan had been brewing for weeks.  
They _loved_ each other, they planned to build a future together.  They 
had been lovers for over eleven months.  But then she sprung it on him, 
like the assassin slides the knife into the unsuspecting victim.

Jen had a new lover.  And she was to marry him on Valentine Day's.

Why, why, why, Rick had cried -- literally -- for one of the few times in 
this masculine young man's life.  

"WHY?!" was she doing this.

It was beyond his understanding, beyond his great sympathy for her 
family's misfortunes.  She "had to" leave him...for her grandfather's 
sake.  He was terminally ill, and being without medical insurance of any 
kind, his slim chance was her only, myopically-perceived, option.

Ronnie White, the son of Detroit's state senator, an education major from 
Rick's alma mater, Michigan, offered Jen hope.

Jen's Hope was the sinister product of that ultra-liberal bastard from 
California, Congressman Lenny Feld's hideous scheme.  A scheme that both 
houses of Congress passed with overwhelming support -- the only opposi-
tion was on economic grounds.

Jen's Hope was $10,000 from Uncle Sap, the price of her body, her mind, 
her soul, her genes.

The Feld Racism Abatement Act authorized one billion dollars to provide a 
grant to "any American, who, conscious of the fact that America is a more 
beautiful place without racism and prejudice, chooses a marriage partner 
of another ethnic group, as defined by the 2002 Census Act.  House Bill 
666 will further in an affirmative way the diversity which strengthens 
our Nation."

You see, Jen's new lover was Black.  Nauseatingly shortsighted, she 
believed her racial heritage was the cost of her grandfather's salvation.

Left speechless, Rick just stared penetratingly at Jen, as a battle-wary 
soldier does after many intense engagements.  Some call it the "10,000 
yard stare."  But his was slightly different.  Rick's was the 10,000 
_year_ stare, looking senselessly at the daughter of 10,000 years of 
blond Nordic struggle and suffering.

Jen and Rick parted with few words.  Yet soon after, Rick's anger ex-
ploded.  But could he _hate_ his cherished part of his life, the person 
who was one with him in all but genetic union -- or so he thought?  His 
rage began to vent toward those monsters who had done this to her, him.

Rick was never a conscious racist.  He felt the "Call of the Blood," as 
he once heard the Nazis describe it, but he struggled to suppress it.  
Pastor Lind had often explained the tragedy of God's People in the ovens of 
Auschwitz.  Little Rickie never forgot.  He always knew what his racist 
feelings could become, what malignant weed they could sprout into.  He, 
Rick Thompson, could become the catalyst that murders another six million 
human beings.

Rick remembered his thankfulness for the Electronic Democracy Act of 
1997, which prohibited hate speech on the Internet, and how he cheered 
when a few dozen racists were locked up for distributing white suprem-
acist and anti-Semitic propaganda.  He was unequivocally appalled by the 
brutality and viciousness of the attacks on government installations by 
conspiracy nuts and so-called "patriots" on July 4th, 2001, less than 
five weeks after the unanimous repeal of the Second Amendment.

But what had happened to _his_ life?  At this point, all was irrelevant, 
all was meaningless, excepting his shattered soul, his obliterated 
dreams, even his once unshakable will seemed to falter.

All meaningless, all without relevance.

Were the haters right?  Was beloved Pastor Lind wrong?  Rick had never -- 
EVER -- thought of joining a hate crusade.

Rick recounted memories later, in an optimistic effort to recover.  He 
recalled his first encounter with Jen, his first kiss, his first....  He 
looked back to the past, in an attempt to find a future he thought 
unbuildable.

He pondered some of the terrible things out of his past, the terrible 
ideas.  Were his emotions getting the best of him?  Now, previously 
unconscionable, he had a peculiar fondness for those ideas.

It was his 21st birthday, May 1st, 1996, his classmates Bob and Kathy, 
outspoken on the matter of race, invited him to celebrate his rite of 
passage, to share with him his special day.  And they had mentioned an
important program they wanted to discuss with him.  Rick recalled they
said it was presented by some sort of physics professor with a keen sense of 
politics.  It had intrigued him, being a nuclear engineering student 
with a similar interest in social issues, but he wasn't about to be bored 
with politics on his "Big Day," especially if it was racist.  He wanted 
to go down to the Wolverine's Den, maybe get laid, too.  He never spoke 
to Bob and Kathy again.

But after his escapade at the Wolverine's Den, during his 13 block journey 
home from the downtown of Ann Arbor, he noticed another message, a 
powerful message which was etched deep in his mind even 14 years later.  
Then, it was just another bigoted leaflet plastered to a broken-down 
facade, but now it surged in his mind, and in his heart.  Emblazened in 
red, the text spoke of a "Third World America" and "race-mixing."  

The leaflet closed with a slogan.

"14 years...or 14 Words."




 "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews



From bb748@freenet.carleton.ca Fri Jan 19 09:44:25 PST 1996
Article: 11862 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (cd39750ab1e71ac6b5dc318bdf9647ad)
From: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Return-Path: 
Reply-To: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 6:03:22 GMT
Message-ID: <822031402$9367@atype.com>
Subject: Rick Thompson: Toward a New Horizon
Lines: 232


RICK THOMPSON: TOWARD A NEW HORIZON

By Milton John Kleim, Jr. 


Rick had no sooner loaded his CAD program on his workstation, than Mr. 
Williams emotionlessly requested he join him in his office upstairs. 

"Rick, I have some rather serious news.  News I'd rather not give a valued
employee, someone I can call a friend."  Rick needed not hear the rest. 

China Atomic Technology Co. had bought out one of America's oldest heavy
engineering firms.  In an "organizational restructuring plan," the victims
of their capitalist conquest were to be he and dozens of other employees,
replaced by "cost-effective" immigrants.  Malcolm O'Donnell, his colleague
of three years, was one of the few to survive.  Malcolm, empathizing with
his friend, told Rick the Taco Amigo where his daughter worked was still
hiring. 



It was incredible that a skilled, talented man such as he would work at a
fast-food joint.  But hey, Tracy O'Donnell, barely 16, was spending her
leisure time helping her family survive.  Her restaurant wasn't an attrac-
tive place.  And it had been the site of eight food poisoning deaths two
years ago.  As Rick entered, the unwashed glass doors and filthy floor
indicated little had changed. 

"Can I take your order, sir?," asked a pretty young lass.

"May I speak with your manager?"

"Miss Green, there's man here who needs to speak with you."

"Kin ah help yoo?"

"Yes, mam.  I'm seeking employment with your company.  I'd..."

"Fill out dis application, and will call yoo."

Miss Green abruptly left the counter, leaving Rick bewildered.



Saturday evening's weekly grocery run let Rick bump into Jen's close
friend at Juan & Heidi's Family Foods.  It was Easter the last time they
saw each other. He smiled, and greeted her.  Stephanie seemed troubled, as
they talked for a few minutes.  Once she was certain he didn't already
know, she spilt it out. 

"I hate to be the one, Rick."

"The one to do what?"

"Jen's pregnant.  I know what you went through.  I didn't want to have to 
tell you, but I thought you should know."

His face grew bright red, as his stomach churned and his heart sank.  He
knew it would have been -- _should_ have been -- his child Jen was carry-
ing.  Stephanie explained that "certified pregnancy" between an inter-
cultural couple qualified the expectant mother for the tax-free grant
under the Feld Act. 

After a minute, Rick regained composure.  Sensing his tattered feelings, 
Steph gave Rick a warm hug, and departed.



Rick, the ever proud, independent man, swallowed his pride, and called up
his father's sister around 10, inquiring about employment opportunities
she might know of.  He didn't qualify for unemployment, since his income
had been well above the new qualification limits, and he knew he better
find some positive cash flow quickly. 

To his astonishment, _she_ had one.  She could use some help with her 
enterprise.

Aunt Laurie ran a cottage industry in her home, making clothes, curtains,
and other items.  Her descriptions made it sound like she was doing fairly
well.  Certainly her textiles were finer quality than the junk one found
in every discount outlet.  Rick wasn't too concerned with his duties,
either.  The prospect of working for someone like Amigo's manager wasn't a
pleasant thought. 



The dinner with Laurie and her boyfriend William was more a party than a
supper.  It followed another day of deliveries and pickups, mostly to and
>from  kind and grateful older ladies and young mothers, each of whom he
always looked forward to seeing over the previous months.  The three
shared quirks of the business and their appreciation of the customers'
tales.  Rick thrice extended his feelings of sincere gratitude during the
merriment for all Laurie's generosity, something she just graciously
dispensed with.  He _was_ family, after all. 

The high-spirited mood of the evening came to an abrupt end.  Bill,
wishing to relax after a hearty meal, made the mistake of flipping on the
television, something Rick rarely did. 

CNN was reporting on the much-touted commemoration festivities earlier in 
the day.

October 3rd, 2010, was the 5th anniversary of the Pacific Cultural
Exchange Agreement.  Sacramento was hosting the festivities, with dozens
of national personalities and thousands of ordinary citizens in
attendance. 

Lauding the Agreement, which eliminated all restrictions on immigration
between the United States and China, was Governor Jim Wong, addressing an
audience of several thousand, on Capitol Mall.  Following him was Ralph
Washington, America's first openly gay vice-president.  Those gathered, as
well as viewers across the Nation, were enlightened to the economic
benefits and luminous cultural diversity the Agreement facilitated not
only on the West Coast, but throughout the USA. 

Laurie and Bill asked Rick if he wished to spend the night.  Rick said he 
would prefer to be home.  It would comfort him.



Rick had finally managed to stablize his finances after unsettling weeks
of monetary insecurity.  Though he was earning substantially less than at
B & W, his job satisfaction helped him to do without luxuries previously
thought necessary.  He was delighted to call on Laurie's customers, whole-
some, decent people, whose friendship contented him.  One of his favorites
was Fran Schmit, whose house he was cruising toward. 

Shortly before he arrived, a newsbrief came over the radio.  For a few
seconds, thoughts of his boyhood home came to mind.  Happy, harmonious Eau
Claire.  But then his fond memories faded. 

A school bus was caught in the fire of a turf war.  One trio of hoodlums
set up an ambush, opening up with an old M-60 machine gun at the approach-
ing rivals.  The yellow transport had turned the corner at the wrong time. 
Four third and fourth graders dead, ten wounded, two seriously. 

Little Rickie's Eau Claire was a peaceful place, safe to play, safe to 
walk, a virtual heaven hidden in western Wisconsin, so far away from the 
Hell-holes of Los Angeles and Miami.  The vignettes of brutal existence 
seen in the mass media about California and Florida had little relevance to 
the Thompsons at the time.

That had all changed.  25 years ago Eau Claire had no poverty-stricken 
underclass.  Now it did.

Rick's parents moved away from their native city a few years back, just 
before they both had passed on, north a ways to a small town called 
Spooner.  After Fred Thompson had retired from UW-Eau Claire, he and Jean 
escaped the rising crime and decay of their hometown, and said goodbye 
after over six decades of residence.

The younger Thompson had watched with melancholy President Bloomfield's
inaugural address the year previous.  The President had expounded upon the
tidal wave of diversity across America, due in large part to the Pacific
Agreement and relaxed immigration regulations for neighboring countries. 
The Nation's leader showcased two communities, one in Rick's home state,
Wausau, and Helena, Montana, and urged Americans to celebrate the rapid
social changes in America, holding up Wausau and Helena as ideal commun-
ities. 

Wausau, Helena, and of course Eau Claire had undergone massive trans-
formation in three decades.  Once "lily white" monocultural bastions, they
had been metamorphosed into multicultural communities.  Most areas of the
"Great White North" had achieved the levels of diversity desired by
America's visionaries by 2007; by 2010, only a few areas, the extreme
Upper Midwest and isolated pockets in the Rockies and Appalachia, had
white populations above 50%.  Everywhere else people of color had con-
tributed their presence in greater numbers. 

His reflections depressed him.  Almost as deeply as that day when Mrs .
Sundgren told Rick his ex-lover's father, Al, had fatally shot himself.
Al, whom Rick considered a second father, had been overwhelmed with despair.
He couldn't bear his own father's suffering, and Jen's solution to a 
hopeless dilemma pushed him to emotional collapse.

Rick's recent tragedies and repetitive sad tidings gnawed away at him.



The '99 Ford had broken down two days earlier, and Rick had to take the
bus to Laurie's.  Surprisingly, the cabin was lonely, he, the driver, and
a scruffy middle-aged man across the aisle.  The man's jacket arose
curiosity. 

"Morning.  You were in the military?"

"Yeah.  Marines.  Gulf War."

"Why do you wear the flag upside down?"

"You are mighty nosy, young man," the man said to Rick, a mere 7 years 
younger than he.

"Forgive me, sir.  I'm just curious."

"Well, if you must know, it represents my perception of America.  An upside-
down flag means we're in dire straits."

"Yeah, I know things are bad.  I lost my job a while back.  My car's on 
the blink, and I can't afford to fix it 'til next week.  Crime everywhere.  
But, you don't agree with the extremists, do you?"

"Young man, I fought for my country.  It sold me out.  More properly, 
it's 'leaders' sold me out.  I tried to fight for my country again, and 
earned five years in the joint."

Rick became tense, as the man went on.

"Remember the roundups of anti-government people following the 225th 
anniversary of the American Revolution?  Well, I was a member of one of 
the 'illegal' organizations on the hit list.  Didn't get a trial, just a 
ticket to Leavenworth for 'sedition'."

"Why did you try to fight the government?  Don't you believe in democracy?"

"Because, young man, there's a motto I lived by.  Something America's 
Founders would have believed in.  A maxim, if practiced, would have made a 
difference in the '90s."

"If I may ask, what is it?  What was your motto?" 


"Seeing the need, we assume the responsibility."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan 19 09:51:59 PST 1996
Article: 117725 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.kreonet.re.kr!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.mathworks.com!gatech!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Let's end the flamefest of rec.music.white-power
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <1127cc$12210.248@news.hampshire.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 03:53:12 GMT
Lines: 28

Michelle Murrain (mpmNS@newhamp.hampshire.edu) writes:

> Look, it seems infinitely clear to me that the proponents have not made
> anything close to a good argument for a big 7 group on white power
> music. 

That's your opinion.  We disagree.

> - start a mailing list, and see how it develops

Got one.  Over 400 subscribers.

> - start an alt. newsgroup and see how that develops

We've decided we need a rec. group, not a second-class alt. group.

We're continuing with our proposal.  We may lose, due to agitprop
activities on the part of our opponents, but we will not give up on a good
idea.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan 19 09:52:00 PST 1996
Article: 117752 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.music.white-power
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4deahs$k7v@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4desar$35k_002@bruceab.teleport.com> <4dij4n$jul@news.ox.ac.uk> <4dm01n$90p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:46:33 GMT
Lines: 53

Ken McVay writes:

>>Sounds basically sensible.  But why not
 
>>talk.politics.white-power.misc
>>talk.politics.white-power.music
 
>>That seems to identify more accurately what they claim they want to talk
>>about, and newsgroups names should be as accurate and specific as possible.
 
> If you want to be accurate and specific, you should consider
> telling it like it is:
 
> talk.politics.hate.misc
> talk.politics.hate.music

Ken, WHY do you insist upon being so negative?  I, on the other hand, see
things in a more positive light.

It would be wrong for soc.culture.african.american to be entitled
talk.politics.hate.whitey.  It would be wrong for soc.culture.jewish to be
entitled talk.politics.hate.goyim.  It is equally wrong to suggest a group
for people who enjoy white racist music should not be allowed to focus on
the positive aspects of the genre.

> Even a careless perusal of typical lyrics will confirm this to
> be accurate without a shred of doubt.

Shall I post "Man Against Time" again, Ken?  No "hate" there.

> Should anyone have any doubt about the "misc" section, they
> need only read the writing of that coward Tom Metzger, or
> visit his obscene web page.

Tom Metzger is not a white musician.  He has nothing to do with White
Power music.

> Accurate, and specific. Tell it like it is.

Hypocrite.  How would you like everyone to insist you call it:

> -- 
>          The Nizsmear Project: An Electronic Propaganda Resource
>                    Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
> Nizsmear Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>    Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan 19 10:10:10 PST 1996
Article: 228707 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: America's Fate: Beyond the Bounds of Time
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:47:21 GMT
Lines: 139

AMERICA'S FATE: BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF TIME

By Milton John Kleim, Jr.


For over two weeks, Rick had felt a man without a soul.  His emotions 
had roared, but now he knew his inner self was a burned-out shell.  Only 
his intense will kept him alive, and coupled with his worsening finances, 
kept him working.

Richard Thompson had presumed his 35th birthday would be a happy cele-
bration.  His life had fulfilled him; a beautiful, bright companion, 
loyal friends of diverse backgrounds, and despite his low salary, he 
couldn't help but be proud of his seven-year old career with Babcock & 
Wilcox.

But it all creeped up, as the iceberg deftly sailed in the path of the 
Titanic, akin to how the "calm before the storm" deadens the senses.

Grandma Thompson adored her only grandchild.  Her dying wish was that 
Rickie carry on her life-mate's family name through several grand-
children.  But Jen ended that on April 30th.

Beyond his wildest of nightmares, Jen's plan had been brewing for weeks.  
They _loved_ each other, they planned to build a future together.  They 
had been lovers for over eleven months.  But then she sprung it on him, 
like the assassin slides the knife into the unsuspecting victim.

Jen had a new lover.  And she was to marry him on Valentine Day's.

Why, why, why, Rick had cried -- literally -- for one of the few times in 
this masculine young man's life.  

"WHY?!" was she doing this.

It was beyond his understanding, beyond his great sympathy for her 
family's misfortunes.  She "had to" leave him...for her grandfather's 
sake.  He was terminally ill, and being without medical insurance of any 
kind, his slim chance was her only, myopically-perceived, option.

Ronnie White, the son of Detroit's state senator, an education major from 
Rick's alma mater, Michigan, offered Jen hope.

Jen's Hope was the sinister product of that ultra-liberal bastard from 
California, Congressman Lenny Feld's hideous scheme.  A scheme that both 
houses of Congress passed with overwhelming support -- the only opposi-
tion was on economic grounds.

Jen's Hope was $10,000 from Uncle Sap, the price of her body, her mind, 
her soul, her genes.

The Feld Racism Abatement Act authorized one billion dollars to provide a 
grant to "any American, who, conscious of the fact that America is a more 
beautiful place without racism and prejudice, chooses a marriage partner 
of another ethnic group, as defined by the 2002 Census Act.  House Bill 
666 will further in an affirmative way the diversity which strengthens 
our Nation."

You see, Jen's new lover was Black.  Nauseatingly shortsighted, she 
believed her racial heritage was the cost of her grandfather's salvation.

Left speechless, Rick just stared penetratingly at Jen, as a battle-wary 
soldier does after many intense engagements.  Some call it the "10,000 
yard stare."  But his was slightly different.  Rick's was the 10,000 
_year_ stare, looking senselessly at the daughter of 10,000 years of 
blond Nordic struggle and suffering.

Jen and Rick parted with few words.  Yet soon after, Rick's anger ex-
ploded.  But could he _hate_ his cherished part of his life, the person 
who was one with him in all but genetic union -- or so he thought?  His 
rage began to vent toward those monsters who had done this to her, him.

Rick was never a conscious racist.  He felt the "Call of the Blood," as 
he once heard the Nazis describe it, but he struggled to suppress it.  
Pastor Lind had often explained the tragedy of God's People in the ovens of 
Auschwitz.  Little Rickie never forgot.  He always knew what his racist 
feelings could become, what malignant weed they could sprout into.  He, 
Rick Thompson, could become the catalyst that murders another six million 
human beings.

Rick remembered his thankfulness for the Electronic Democracy Act of 
1997, which prohibited hate speech on the Internet, and how he cheered 
when a few dozen racists were locked up for distributing white suprem-
acist and anti-Semitic propaganda.  He was unequivocally appalled by the 
brutality and viciousness of the attacks on government installations by 
conspiracy nuts and so-called "patriots" on July 4th, 2001, less than 
five weeks after the unanimous repeal of the Second Amendment.

But what had happened to _his_ life?  At this point, all was irrelevant, 
all was meaningless, excepting his shattered soul, his obliterated 
dreams, even his once unshakable will seemed to falter.

All meaningless, all without relevance.

Were the haters right?  Was beloved Pastor Lind wrong?  Rick had never -- 
EVER -- thought of joining a hate crusade.

Rick recounted memories later, in an optimistic effort to recover.  He 
recalled his first encounter with Jen, his first kiss, his first....  He 
looked back to the past, in an attempt to find a future he thought 
unbuildable.

He pondered some of the terrible things out of his past, the terrible 
ideas.  Were his emotions getting the best of him?  Now, previously 
unconscionable, he had a peculiar fondness for those ideas.

It was his 21st birthday, May 1st, 1996, his classmates Bob and Kathy, 
outspoken on the matter of race, invited him to celebrate his rite of 
passage, to share with him his special day.  And they had mentioned an
important program they wanted to discuss with him.  Rick recalled they
said it was presented by some sort of physics professor with a keen sense of 
politics.  It had intrigued him, being a nuclear engineering student 
with a similar interest in social issues, but he wasn't about to be bored 
with politics on his "Big Day," especially if it was racist.  He wanted 
to go down to the Wolverine's Den, maybe get laid, too.  He never spoke 
to Bob and Kathy again.

But after his escapade at the Wolverine's Den, during his 13 block journey 
home from the downtown of Ann Arbor, he noticed another message, a 
powerful message which was etched deep in his mind even 14 years later.  
Then, it was just another bigoted leaflet plastered to a broken-down 
facade, but now it surged in his mind, and in his heart.  Emblazened in 
red, the text spoke of a "Third World America" and "race-mixing."  

The leaflet closed with a slogan.

"14 years...or 14 Words."




 "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Jan 19 10:10:11 PST 1996
Article: 228708 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Rick Thompson: Toward A New Horizon
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:47:50 GMT
Lines: 230

RICK THOMPSON: TOWARD A NEW HORIZON

By Milton John Kleim, Jr. 


Rick had no sooner loaded his CAD program on his workstation, than Mr. 
Williams emotionlessly requested he join him in his office upstairs. 

"Rick, I have some rather serious news.  News I'd rather not give a valued
employee, someone I can call a friend."  Rick needed not hear the rest. 

China Atomic Technology Co. had bought out one of America's oldest heavy
engineering firms.  In an "organizational restructuring plan," the victims
of their capitalist conquest were to be he and dozens of other employees,
replaced by "cost-effective" immigrants.  Malcolm O'Donnell, his colleague
of three years, was one of the few to survive.  Malcolm, empathizing with
his friend, told Rick the Taco Amigo where his daughter worked was still
hiring. 



It was incredible that a skilled, talented man such as he would work at a
fast-food joint.  But hey, Tracy O'Donnell, barely 16, was spending her
leisure time helping her family survive.  Her restaurant wasn't an attrac-
tive place.  And it had been the site of eight food poisoning deaths two
years ago.  As Rick entered, the unwashed glass doors and filthy floor
indicated little had changed. 

"Can I take your order, sir?," asked a pretty young lass.

"May I speak with your manager?"

"Miss Green, there's man here who needs to speak with you."

"Kin ah help yoo?"

"Yes, mam.  I'm seeking employment with your company.  I'd..."

"Fill out dis application, and will call yoo."

Miss Green abruptly left the counter, leaving Rick bewildered.



Saturday evening's weekly grocery run let Rick bump into Jen's close
friend at Juan & Heidi's Family Foods.  It was Easter the last time they
saw each other. He smiled, and greeted her.  Stephanie seemed troubled, as
they talked for a few minutes.  Once she was certain he didn't already
know, she spilt it out. 

"I hate to be the one, Rick."

"The one to do what?"

"Jen's pregnant.  I know what you went through.  I didn't want to have to 
tell you, but I thought you should know."

His face grew bright red, as his stomach churned and his heart sank.  He
knew it would have been -- _should_ have been -- his child Jen was carry-
ing.  Stephanie explained that "certified pregnancy" between an inter-
cultural couple qualified the expectant mother for the tax-free grant
under the Feld Act. 

After a minute, Rick regained composure.  Sensing his tattered feelings, 
Steph gave Rick a warm hug, and departed.



Rick, the ever proud, independent man, swallowed his pride, and called up
his father's sister around 10, inquiring about employment opportunities
she might know of.  He didn't qualify for unemployment, since his income
had been well above the new qualification limits, and he knew he better
find some positive cash flow quickly. 

To his astonishment, _she_ had one.  She could use some help with her 
enterprise.

Aunt Laurie ran a cottage industry in her home, making clothes, curtains,
and other items.  Her descriptions made it sound like she was doing fairly
well.  Certainly her textiles were finer quality than the junk one found
in every discount outlet.  Rick wasn't too concerned with his duties,
either.  The prospect of working for someone like Amigo's manager wasn't a
pleasant thought. 



The dinner with Laurie and her boyfriend William was more a party than a
supper.  It followed another day of deliveries and pickups, mostly to and
>from  kind and grateful older ladies and young mothers, each of whom he
always looked forward to seeing over the previous months.  The three
shared quirks of the business and their appreciation of the customers'
tales.  Rick thrice extended his feelings of sincere gratitude during the
merriment for all Laurie's generosity, something she just graciously
dispensed with.  He _was_ family, after all. 

The high-spirited mood of the evening came to an abrupt end.  Bill,
wishing to relax after a hearty meal, made the mistake of flipping on the
television, something Rick rarely did. 

CNN was reporting on the much-touted commemoration festivities earlier in 
the day.

October 3rd, 2010, was the 5th anniversary of the Pacific Cultural
Exchange Agreement.  Sacramento was hosting the festivities, with dozens
of national personalities and thousands of ordinary citizens in
attendance. 

Lauding the Agreement, which eliminated all restrictions on immigration
between the United States and China, was Governor Jim Wong, addressing an
audience of several thousand, on Capitol Mall.  Following him was Ralph
Washington, America's first openly gay vice-president.  Those gathered, as
well as viewers across the Nation, were enlightened to the economic
benefits and luminous cultural diversity the Agreement facilitated not
only on the West Coast, but throughout the USA. 

Laurie and Bill asked Rick if he wished to spend the night.  Rick said he 
would prefer to be home.  It would comfort him.



Rick had finally managed to stablize his finances after unsettling weeks
of monetary insecurity.  Though he was earning substantially less than at
B & W, his job satisfaction helped him to do without luxuries previously
thought necessary.  He was delighted to call on Laurie's customers, whole-
some, decent people, whose friendship contented him.  One of his favorites
was Fran Schmit, whose house he was cruising toward. 

Shortly before he arrived, a newsbrief came over the radio.  For a few
seconds, thoughts of his boyhood home came to mind.  Happy, harmonious Eau
Claire.  But then his fond memories faded. 

A school bus was caught in the fire of a turf war.  One trio of hoodlums
set up an ambush, opening up with an old M-60 machine gun at the approach-
ing rivals.  The yellow transport had turned the corner at the wrong time. 
Four third and fourth graders dead, ten wounded, two seriously. 

Little Rickie's Eau Claire was a peaceful place, safe to play, safe to 
walk, a virtual heaven hidden in western Wisconsin, so far away from the 
Hell-holes of Los Angeles and Miami.  The vignettes of brutal existence 
seen in the mass media about California and Florida had little relevance to 
the Thompsons at the time.

That had all changed.  25 years ago Eau Claire had no poverty-stricken 
underclass.  Now it did.

Rick's parents moved away from their native city a few years back, just 
before they both had passed on, north a ways to a small town called 
Spooner.  After Fred Thompson had retired from UW-Eau Claire, he and Jean 
escaped the rising crime and decay of their hometown, and said goodbye 
after over six decades of residence.

The younger Thompson had watched with melancholy President Bloomfield's
inaugural address the year previous.  The President had expounded upon the
tidal wave of diversity across America, due in large part to the Pacific
Agreement and relaxed immigration regulations for neighboring countries. 
The Nation's leader showcased two communities, one in Rick's home state,
Wausau, and Helena, Montana, and urged Americans to celebrate the rapid
social changes in America, holding up Wausau and Helena as ideal commun-
ities. 

Wausau, Helena, and of course Eau Claire had undergone massive trans-
formation in three decades.  Once "lily white" monocultural bastions, they
had been metamorphosed into multicultural communities.  Most areas of the
"Great White North" had achieved the levels of diversity desired by
America's visionaries by 2007; by 2010, only a few areas, the extreme
Upper Midwest and isolated pockets in the Rockies and Appalachia, had
white populations above 50%.  Everywhere else people of color had con-
tributed their presence in greater numbers. 

His reflections depressed him.  Almost as deeply as that day when Mrs .
Sundgren told Rick his ex-lover's father, Al, had fatally shot himself.
Al, whom Rick considered a second father, had been overwhelmed with despair.
He couldn't bear his own father's suffering, and Jen's solution to a 
hopeless dilemma pushed him to emotional collapse.

Rick's recent tragedies and repetitive sad tidings gnawed away at him.



The '99 Ford had broken down two days earlier, and Rick had to take the
bus to Laurie's.  Surprisingly, the cabin was lonely, he, the driver, and
a scruffy middle-aged man across the aisle.  The man's jacket arose
curiosity. 

"Morning.  You were in the military?"

"Yeah.  Marines.  Gulf War."

"Why do you wear the flag upside down?"

"You are mighty nosy, young man," the man said to Rick, a mere 7 years 
younger than he.

"Forgive me, sir.  I'm just curious."

"Well, if you must know, it represents my perception of America.  An upside-
down flag means we're in dire straits."

"Yeah, I know things are bad.  I lost my job a while back.  My car's on 
the blink, and I can't afford to fix it 'til next week.  Crime everywhere.  
But, you don't agree with the extremists, do you?"

"Young man, I fought for my country.  It sold me out.  More properly, 
it's 'leaders' sold me out.  I tried to fight for my country again, and 
earned five years in the joint."

Rick became tense, as the man went on.

"Remember the roundups of anti-government people following the 225th 
anniversary of the American Revolution?  Well, I was a member of one of 
the 'illegal' organizations on the hit list.  Didn't get a trial, just a 
ticket to Leavenworth for 'sedition'."

"Why did you try to fight the government?  Don't you believe in democracy?"

"Because, young man, there's a motto I lived by.  Something America's 
Founders would have believed in.  A maxim, if practiced, would have made a 
difference in the '90s."

"If I may ask, what is it?  What was your motto?" 


"Seeing the need, we assume the responsibility."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 20 11:04:11 PST 1996
Article: 11812 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!uniserve!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Rick Thompson: Toward a New Horizon
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:41:21 GMT
Lines: 230
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:11812 alt.politics.white-power:15473 alt.skinheads:10110

RICK THOMPSON: TOWARD A NEW HORIZON

By Milton John Kleim, Jr. 


Rick had no sooner loaded his CAD program on his workstation, than Mr. 
Williams emotionlessly requested he join him in his office upstairs. 

"Rick, I have some rather serious news.  News I'd rather not give a valued
employee, someone I can call a friend."  Rick needed not hear the rest. 

China Atomic Technology Co. had bought out one of America's oldest heavy
engineering firms.  In an "organizational restructuring plan," the victims
of their capitalist conquest were to be he and dozens of other employees,
replaced by "cost-effective" immigrants.  Malcolm O'Donnell, his colleague
of three years, was one of the few to survive.  Malcolm, empathizing with
his friend, told Rick the Taco Amigo where his daughter worked was still
hiring. 



It was incredible that a skilled, talented man such as he would work at a
fast-food joint.  But hey, Tracy O'Donnell, barely 16, was spending her
leisure time helping her family survive.  Her restaurant wasn't an attrac-
tive place.  And it had been the site of eight food poisoning deaths two
years ago.  As Rick entered, the unwashed glass doors and filthy floor
indicated little had changed. 

"Can I take your order, sir?," asked a pretty young lass.

"May I speak with your manager?"

"Miss Green, there's man here who needs to speak with you."

"Kin ah help yoo?"

"Yes, mam.  I'm seeking employment with your company.  I'd..."

"Fill out dis application, and will call yoo."

Miss Green abruptly left the counter, leaving Rick bewildered.



Saturday evening's weekly grocery run let Rick bump into Jen's close
friend at Juan & Heidi's Family Foods.  It was Easter the last time they
saw each other. He smiled, and greeted her.  Stephanie seemed troubled, as
they talked for a few minutes.  Once she was certain he didn't already
know, she spilt it out. 

"I hate to be the one, Rick."

"The one to do what?"

"Jen's pregnant.  I know what you went through.  I didn't want to have to 
tell you, but I thought you should know."

His face grew bright red, as his stomach churned and his heart sank.  He
knew it would have been -- _should_ have been -- his child Jen was carry-
ing.  Stephanie explained that "certified pregnancy" between an inter-
cultural couple qualified the expectant mother for the tax-free grant
under the Feld Act. 

After a minute, Rick regained composure.  Sensing his tattered feelings, 
Steph gave Rick a warm hug, and departed.



Rick, the ever proud, independent man, swallowed his pride, and called up
his father's sister around 10, inquiring about employment opportunities
she might know of.  He didn't qualify for unemployment, since his income
had been well above the new qualification limits, and he knew he better
find some positive cash flow quickly. 

To his astonishment, _she_ had one.  She could use some help with her 
enterprise.

Aunt Laurie ran a cottage industry in her home, making clothes, curtains,
and other items.  Her descriptions made it sound like she was doing fairly
well.  Certainly her textiles were finer quality than the junk one found
in every discount outlet.  Rick wasn't too concerned with his duties,
either.  The prospect of working for someone like Amigo's manager wasn't a
pleasant thought. 



The dinner with Laurie and her boyfriend William was more a party than a
supper.  It followed another day of deliveries and pickups, mostly to and
>from  kind and grateful older ladies and young mothers, each of whom he
always looked forward to seeing over the previous months.  The three
shared quirks of the business and their appreciation of the customers'
tales.  Rick thrice extended his feelings of sincere gratitude during the
merriment for all Laurie's generosity, something she just graciously
dispensed with.  He _was_ family, after all. 

The high-spirited mood of the evening came to an abrupt end.  Bill,
wishing to relax after a hearty meal, made the mistake of flipping on the
television, something Rick rarely did. 

CNN was reporting on the much-touted commemoration festivities earlier in 
the day.

October 3rd, 2010, was the 5th anniversary of the Pacific Cultural
Exchange Agreement.  Sacramento was hosting the festivities, with dozens
of national personalities and thousands of ordinary citizens in
attendance. 

Lauding the Agreement, which eliminated all restrictions on immigration
between the United States and China, was Governor Jim Wong, addressing an
audience of several thousand, on Capitol Mall.  Following him was Ralph
Washington, America's first openly gay vice-president.  Those gathered, as
well as viewers across the Nation, were enlightened to the economic
benefits and luminous cultural diversity the Agreement facilitated not
only on the West Coast, but throughout the USA. 

Laurie and Bill asked Rick if he wished to spend the night.  Rick said he 
would prefer to be home.  It would comfort him.



Rick had finally managed to stablize his finances after unsettling weeks
of monetary insecurity.  Though he was earning substantially less than at
B & W, his job satisfaction helped him to do without luxuries previously
thought necessary.  He was delighted to call on Laurie's customers, whole-
some, decent people, whose friendship contented him.  One of his favorites
was Fran Schmit, whose house he was cruising toward. 

Shortly before he arrived, a newsbrief came over the radio.  For a few
seconds, thoughts of his boyhood home came to mind.  Happy, harmonious Eau
Claire.  But then his fond memories faded. 

A school bus was caught in the fire of a turf war.  One trio of hoodlums
set up an ambush, opening up with an old M-60 machine gun at the approach-
ing rivals.  The yellow transport had turned the corner at the wrong time. 
Four third and fourth graders dead, ten wounded, two seriously. 

Little Rickie's Eau Claire was a peaceful place, safe to play, safe to 
walk, a virtual heaven hidden in western Wisconsin, so far away from the 
Hell-holes of Los Angeles and Miami.  The vignettes of brutal existence 
seen in the mass media about California and Florida had little relevance to 
the Thompsons at the time.

That had all changed.  25 years ago Eau Claire had no poverty-stricken 
underclass.  Now it did.

Rick's parents moved away from their native city a few years back, just 
before they both had passed on, north a ways to a small town called 
Spooner.  After Fred Thompson had retired from UW-Eau Claire, he and Jean 
escaped the rising crime and decay of their hometown, and said goodbye 
after over six decades of residence.

The younger Thompson had watched with melancholy President Bloomfield's
inaugural address the year previous.  The President had expounded upon the
tidal wave of diversity across America, due in large part to the Pacific
Agreement and relaxed immigration regulations for neighboring countries. 
The Nation's leader showcased two communities, one in Rick's home state,
Wausau, and Helena, Montana, and urged Americans to celebrate the rapid
social changes in America, holding up Wausau and Helena as ideal commun-
ities. 

Wausau, Helena, and of course Eau Claire had undergone massive trans-
formation in three decades.  Once "lily white" monocultural bastions, they
had been metamorphosed into multicultural communities.  Most areas of the
"Great White North" had achieved the levels of diversity desired by
America's visionaries by 2007; by 2010, only a few areas, the extreme
Upper Midwest and isolated pockets in the Rockies and Appalachia, had
white populations above 50%.  Everywhere else people of color had con-
tributed their presence in greater numbers. 

His reflections depressed him.  Almost as deeply as that day when Mrs .
Sundgren told Rick his ex-lover's father, Al, had fatally shot himself.
Al, whom Rick considered a second father, had been overwhelmed with despair.
He couldn't bear his own father's suffering, and Jen's solution to a 
hopeless dilemma pushed him to emotional collapse.

Rick's recent tragedies and repetitive sad tidings gnawed away at him.



The '99 Ford had broken down two days earlier, and Rick had to take the
bus to Laurie's.  Surprisingly, the cabin was lonely, he, the driver, and
a scruffy middle-aged man across the aisle.  The man's jacket arose
curiosity. 

"Morning.  You were in the military?"

"Yeah.  Marines.  Gulf War."

"Why do you wear the flag upside down?"

"You are mighty nosy, young man," the man said to Rick, a mere 7 years 
younger than he.

"Forgive me, sir.  I'm just curious."

"Well, if you must know, it represents my perception of America.  An upside-
down flag means we're in dire straits."

"Yeah, I know things are bad.  I lost my job a while back.  My car's on 
the blink, and I can't afford to fix it 'til next week.  Crime everywhere.  
But, you don't agree with the extremists, do you?"

"Young man, I fought for my country.  It sold me out.  More properly, 
it's 'leaders' sold me out.  I tried to fight for my country again, and 
earned five years in the joint."

Rick became tense, as the man went on.

"Remember the roundups of anti-government people following the 225th 
anniversary of the American Revolution?  Well, I was a member of one of 
the 'illegal' organizations on the hit list.  Didn't get a trial, just a 
ticket to Leavenworth for 'sedition'."

"Why did you try to fight the government?  Don't you believe in democracy?"

"Because, young man, there's a motto I lived by.  Something America's 
Founders would have believed in.  A maxim, if practiced, would have made a 
difference in the '90s."

"If I may ask, what is it?  What was your motto?" 


"Seeing the need, we assume the responsibility."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 20 11:04:12 PST 1996
Article: 11813 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revolution.counter,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Controversial site mentioned in _Time_ -- censored!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 05:27:42 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:11813 alt.politics.white-power:15474 alt.revolution.counter:5547 alt.skinheads:10112

In the latest edition of _Time_ magazine, January 22nd, 1996, a story by 
Josh Quittner concerning censorship and the Net appeared on page 69.

The piece had as a graphic the introduction page to a site called the 
"Library of Freedom," run by one Mark Phoenix.  The URL is http://
trend1.com/~phoenix/

Yesterday, the page was involuntarily removed from the host system, 
allegedly due to the enormous traffic generated.  However, the ISP has 
exploited the situation by advertising on the dead URL.  It appears the 
ISP is using the situation to promote his business and increase his 
profits at the expense of freedom of expression. 

Please write Trend1.com at the following addresses, and inquire why the 
site was taken down, and why the page owner was not allowed to redirect 
curious people to an alternative, better equipped site.

Thank you for your assistance.

obrien@zola.trend1.com  (system administrator)
webmaster@zola.trend1.com
info@zola.trend1.com




--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 20 11:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 15473 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!uniserve!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Rick Thompson: Toward a New Horizon
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:41:21 GMT
Lines: 230
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:11812 alt.politics.white-power:15473 alt.skinheads:10110

RICK THOMPSON: TOWARD A NEW HORIZON

By Milton John Kleim, Jr. 


Rick had no sooner loaded his CAD program on his workstation, than Mr. 
Williams emotionlessly requested he join him in his office upstairs. 

"Rick, I have some rather serious news.  News I'd rather not give a valued
employee, someone I can call a friend."  Rick needed not hear the rest. 

China Atomic Technology Co. had bought out one of America's oldest heavy
engineering firms.  In an "organizational restructuring plan," the victims
of their capitalist conquest were to be he and dozens of other employees,
replaced by "cost-effective" immigrants.  Malcolm O'Donnell, his colleague
of three years, was one of the few to survive.  Malcolm, empathizing with
his friend, told Rick the Taco Amigo where his daughter worked was still
hiring. 



It was incredible that a skilled, talented man such as he would work at a
fast-food joint.  But hey, Tracy O'Donnell, barely 16, was spending her
leisure time helping her family survive.  Her restaurant wasn't an attrac-
tive place.  And it had been the site of eight food poisoning deaths two
years ago.  As Rick entered, the unwashed glass doors and filthy floor
indicated little had changed. 

"Can I take your order, sir?," asked a pretty young lass.

"May I speak with your manager?"

"Miss Green, there's man here who needs to speak with you."

"Kin ah help yoo?"

"Yes, mam.  I'm seeking employment with your company.  I'd..."

"Fill out dis application, and will call yoo."

Miss Green abruptly left the counter, leaving Rick bewildered.



Saturday evening's weekly grocery run let Rick bump into Jen's close
friend at Juan & Heidi's Family Foods.  It was Easter the last time they
saw each other. He smiled, and greeted her.  Stephanie seemed troubled, as
they talked for a few minutes.  Once she was certain he didn't already
know, she spilt it out. 

"I hate to be the one, Rick."

"The one to do what?"

"Jen's pregnant.  I know what you went through.  I didn't want to have to 
tell you, but I thought you should know."

His face grew bright red, as his stomach churned and his heart sank.  He
knew it would have been -- _should_ have been -- his child Jen was carry-
ing.  Stephanie explained that "certified pregnancy" between an inter-
cultural couple qualified the expectant mother for the tax-free grant
under the Feld Act. 

After a minute, Rick regained composure.  Sensing his tattered feelings, 
Steph gave Rick a warm hug, and departed.



Rick, the ever proud, independent man, swallowed his pride, and called up
his father's sister around 10, inquiring about employment opportunities
she might know of.  He didn't qualify for unemployment, since his income
had been well above the new qualification limits, and he knew he better
find some positive cash flow quickly. 

To his astonishment, _she_ had one.  She could use some help with her 
enterprise.

Aunt Laurie ran a cottage industry in her home, making clothes, curtains,
and other items.  Her descriptions made it sound like she was doing fairly
well.  Certainly her textiles were finer quality than the junk one found
in every discount outlet.  Rick wasn't too concerned with his duties,
either.  The prospect of working for someone like Amigo's manager wasn't a
pleasant thought. 



The dinner with Laurie and her boyfriend William was more a party than a
supper.  It followed another day of deliveries and pickups, mostly to and
>from  kind and grateful older ladies and young mothers, each of whom he
always looked forward to seeing over the previous months.  The three
shared quirks of the business and their appreciation of the customers'
tales.  Rick thrice extended his feelings of sincere gratitude during the
merriment for all Laurie's generosity, something she just graciously
dispensed with.  He _was_ family, after all. 

The high-spirited mood of the evening came to an abrupt end.  Bill,
wishing to relax after a hearty meal, made the mistake of flipping on the
television, something Rick rarely did. 

CNN was reporting on the much-touted commemoration festivities earlier in 
the day.

October 3rd, 2010, was the 5th anniversary of the Pacific Cultural
Exchange Agreement.  Sacramento was hosting the festivities, with dozens
of national personalities and thousands of ordinary citizens in
attendance. 

Lauding the Agreement, which eliminated all restrictions on immigration
between the United States and China, was Governor Jim Wong, addressing an
audience of several thousand, on Capitol Mall.  Following him was Ralph
Washington, America's first openly gay vice-president.  Those gathered, as
well as viewers across the Nation, were enlightened to the economic
benefits and luminous cultural diversity the Agreement facilitated not
only on the West Coast, but throughout the USA. 

Laurie and Bill asked Rick if he wished to spend the night.  Rick said he 
would prefer to be home.  It would comfort him.



Rick had finally managed to stablize his finances after unsettling weeks
of monetary insecurity.  Though he was earning substantially less than at
B & W, his job satisfaction helped him to do without luxuries previously
thought necessary.  He was delighted to call on Laurie's customers, whole-
some, decent people, whose friendship contented him.  One of his favorites
was Fran Schmit, whose house he was cruising toward. 

Shortly before he arrived, a newsbrief came over the radio.  For a few
seconds, thoughts of his boyhood home came to mind.  Happy, harmonious Eau
Claire.  But then his fond memories faded. 

A school bus was caught in the fire of a turf war.  One trio of hoodlums
set up an ambush, opening up with an old M-60 machine gun at the approach-
ing rivals.  The yellow transport had turned the corner at the wrong time. 
Four third and fourth graders dead, ten wounded, two seriously. 

Little Rickie's Eau Claire was a peaceful place, safe to play, safe to 
walk, a virtual heaven hidden in western Wisconsin, so far away from the 
Hell-holes of Los Angeles and Miami.  The vignettes of brutal existence 
seen in the mass media about California and Florida had little relevance to 
the Thompsons at the time.

That had all changed.  25 years ago Eau Claire had no poverty-stricken 
underclass.  Now it did.

Rick's parents moved away from their native city a few years back, just 
before they both had passed on, north a ways to a small town called 
Spooner.  After Fred Thompson had retired from UW-Eau Claire, he and Jean 
escaped the rising crime and decay of their hometown, and said goodbye 
after over six decades of residence.

The younger Thompson had watched with melancholy President Bloomfield's
inaugural address the year previous.  The President had expounded upon the
tidal wave of diversity across America, due in large part to the Pacific
Agreement and relaxed immigration regulations for neighboring countries. 
The Nation's leader showcased two communities, one in Rick's home state,
Wausau, and Helena, Montana, and urged Americans to celebrate the rapid
social changes in America, holding up Wausau and Helena as ideal commun-
ities. 

Wausau, Helena, and of course Eau Claire had undergone massive trans-
formation in three decades.  Once "lily white" monocultural bastions, they
had been metamorphosed into multicultural communities.  Most areas of the
"Great White North" had achieved the levels of diversity desired by
America's visionaries by 2007; by 2010, only a few areas, the extreme
Upper Midwest and isolated pockets in the Rockies and Appalachia, had
white populations above 50%.  Everywhere else people of color had con-
tributed their presence in greater numbers. 

His reflections depressed him.  Almost as deeply as that day when Mrs .
Sundgren told Rick his ex-lover's father, Al, had fatally shot himself.
Al, whom Rick considered a second father, had been overwhelmed with despair.
He couldn't bear his own father's suffering, and Jen's solution to a 
hopeless dilemma pushed him to emotional collapse.

Rick's recent tragedies and repetitive sad tidings gnawed away at him.



The '99 Ford had broken down two days earlier, and Rick had to take the
bus to Laurie's.  Surprisingly, the cabin was lonely, he, the driver, and
a scruffy middle-aged man across the aisle.  The man's jacket arose
curiosity. 

"Morning.  You were in the military?"

"Yeah.  Marines.  Gulf War."

"Why do you wear the flag upside down?"

"You are mighty nosy, young man," the man said to Rick, a mere 7 years 
younger than he.

"Forgive me, sir.  I'm just curious."

"Well, if you must know, it represents my perception of America.  An upside-
down flag means we're in dire straits."

"Yeah, I know things are bad.  I lost my job a while back.  My car's on 
the blink, and I can't afford to fix it 'til next week.  Crime everywhere.  
But, you don't agree with the extremists, do you?"

"Young man, I fought for my country.  It sold me out.  More properly, 
it's 'leaders' sold me out.  I tried to fight for my country again, and 
earned five years in the joint."

Rick became tense, as the man went on.

"Remember the roundups of anti-government people following the 225th 
anniversary of the American Revolution?  Well, I was a member of one of 
the 'illegal' organizations on the hit list.  Didn't get a trial, just a 
ticket to Leavenworth for 'sedition'."

"Why did you try to fight the government?  Don't you believe in democracy?"

"Because, young man, there's a motto I lived by.  Something America's 
Founders would have believed in.  A maxim, if practiced, would have made a 
difference in the '90s."

"If I may ask, what is it?  What was your motto?" 


"Seeing the need, we assume the responsibility."


--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 20 12:23:12 PST 1996
Article: 29217 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: CLOC declares its intentions
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4dn4h4$e76@psdcomms.psd.com.au>
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:20:19 GMT
Lines: 23

Stuart Park (stuart@psd.com.au) writes:

> Milton Kleim (bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

> : White men have developed, built, and maintained the Internet since day one.
> : It is our birthright, my birthright.  Postings about White supremacy
> : *belong* in every newsgroup that exists.  The Carolinian Lords are not
> : invading newsgroups, we are *reclaiming* what has been created for us by our
> : forefathers.
> 
 
> I always thought those 2 'CLOC' people were insane.. this proves it.
> (although IMHO "sanity" and "white supremacy" are contradictory terms)

I did NOT write that.  Reuben wrote it, and I quoted him.

-- MJK

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 22 10:40:19 PST 1996
Article: 20940 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: The Aryan Corps
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 06:21:56 GMT
Lines: 27
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:15694 alt.politics.nationalism.white:11963 alt.revisionism:20940 alt.skinheads:10257

The Aryan Corps.  A coalition of independent Internet activists.

The Aryan Corps is an alliance of Net activists, united in an effort to 
disseminate and promote the message of Aryan racial salvation and progress.

The Corps is not a membership organization and has no authority hierarchy.
Its "leaders" do not issue orders; the Corps has trend-setters who lead by 
example.

The Corps is guided by the principles outlined in the treatise "On Tactics
and Strategy for USENET" (http://www.io.com/~wlp/aryan-page/cng/
tac.html/), and common sense.  We promote the paradigm of the 14 Words and
engage the Enemy on USENET, mailing lists, and IRC. 

For more information, contact:

Milton John Kleim, Jr., Director, Aryan Corps Combat Information Center
   bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA

Les Griswold, Aryan Corps Operations Specialist
   bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 22 10:53:23 PST 1996
Article: 15729 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: The Aryan Corps
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:22:27 GMT
Lines: 18

Jeanne Kowalewski spews:

> * The Aryan Corps.  A coalition of independent Internet activists.

> These two sniveling Nazis are still licking their wounds that they were not
> mentioned in the _Time_ article this week. 

Uh, apprarently you didn't read the article (CAN you read?).

Not only was I _quoted_, but the URL to the "Library of Milton Kleim" was
displayed prominently, so prominently, that *tens of thousands* of people
tried to connect to the site.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 27 21:35:04 PST 1996
Article: 12441 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: The decline of White America... oh well!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <4clnfg$hl0@tst.hk.super.net>  <30F2D9B5.3F36@scott.net> <30F37E41.5DBB@aimnet.com> <4dghh2$jt8@floyd.santarosa.edu> <30FC4FCC.6EB@aimnet.com> <4dkhil$bnq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <30FEDF3C.A0@aimnet.com>  <31011CAF.4C9E@aimnet.com>  <31063B22.757@aimnet.c <4ebvp5$d0h@norm.uoknor.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:17:34 GMT
Lines: 49
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:16425 soc.culture.african.american:111253 alt.politics.nationalism.white:12441

James Judd writes:

> All of you white-power people had better come to grips with it. All 
> this talk about white superiority (or black inferiority), its all
> laughable in the eyes of evolutionary theory. Let's go ahead and assume
> that white people are smarter... so what? Whose genes are superior at
> propagating? That's right. Blacks. And so by the theory of evolution, yall
> will eventually become a minority, such that in a few hundred years, WE
> will be 80% of the population in America and YOU will be less than 10%!

You're certainly right that, from a standpoint of evolution, Aryans are 
indeed evolutionary failures, since we do not breed at adequate levels to 
sustain our gene pool.  

HOWEVER, Aryan technology is the ONLY thing interfering with the laws of
natural selection governing the non-White populations of the Earth. Even
if Aryans choose not to use nuclear or chemical weapons to bring Earth's
humanoid population back into sync with our planet's carrying capacity,
the decline of the Aryan Race spells utter doom for billions of less
evolved types around the world.  Once the minimum threshhold of
civilization-sustaining technical ability held solely by the Aryan Race is
lost, the technological and communication/transportation infrastructure
required to nourish colored hordes evaporates.  Put simply: no honkeys, no
poke chops and watuhmelon. 

Sure, the Asiatics would have a semblance of civilization after the
decline of the Aryan Race, but be quite aware that most Japanese and
Chinese consider Negroes black hairless apes.  There'll be no "welfare"
and certainly no compassion from them; consider what they did to Aryan 
soldiers at Bataan to get a glimpse of what they'll do to "Nigwoes." 

> 	I have nothing against White people. I think y'all will help us
> run the country just fine someday!

Without the Aryan Race, there will BE NO COUNTRY.

Sneer on, Nigger.

> We got the rythm, we got the style
> we'll get the power, just you wait a while

Ya think so, huh, N-boy?  Whatcha think Hymie will say 'bout that,
bruthuh? 

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Jan 27 21:41:29 PST 1996
Article: 16425 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: The decline of White America... oh well!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <4clnfg$hl0@tst.hk.super.net>  <30F2D9B5.3F36@scott.net> <30F37E41.5DBB@aimnet.com> <4dghh2$jt8@floyd.santarosa.edu> <30FC4FCC.6EB@aimnet.com> <4dkhil$bnq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <30FEDF3C.A0@aimnet.com>  <31011CAF.4C9E@aimnet.com>  <31063B22.757@aimnet.c <4ebvp5$d0h@norm.uoknor.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:17:34 GMT
Lines: 49
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:16425 soc.culture.african.american:111253 alt.politics.nationalism.white:12441

James Judd writes:

> All of you white-power people had better come to grips with it. All 
> this talk about white superiority (or black inferiority), its all
> laughable in the eyes of evolutionary theory. Let's go ahead and assume
> that white people are smarter... so what? Whose genes are superior at
> propagating? That's right. Blacks. And so by the theory of evolution, yall
> will eventually become a minority, such that in a few hundred years, WE
> will be 80% of the population in America and YOU will be less than 10%!

You're certainly right that, from a standpoint of evolution, Aryans are 
indeed evolutionary failures, since we do not breed at adequate levels to 
sustain our gene pool.  

HOWEVER, Aryan technology is the ONLY thing interfering with the laws of
natural selection governing the non-White populations of the Earth. Even
if Aryans choose not to use nuclear or chemical weapons to bring Earth's
humanoid population back into sync with our planet's carrying capacity,
the decline of the Aryan Race spells utter doom for billions of less
evolved types around the world.  Once the minimum threshhold of
civilization-sustaining technical ability held solely by the Aryan Race is
lost, the technological and communication/transportation infrastructure
required to nourish colored hordes evaporates.  Put simply: no honkeys, no
poke chops and watuhmelon. 

Sure, the Asiatics would have a semblance of civilization after the
decline of the Aryan Race, but be quite aware that most Japanese and
Chinese consider Negroes black hairless apes.  There'll be no "welfare"
and certainly no compassion from them; consider what they did to Aryan 
soldiers at Bataan to get a glimpse of what they'll do to "Nigwoes." 

> 	I have nothing against White people. I think y'all will help us
> run the country just fine someday!

Without the Aryan Race, there will BE NO COUNTRY.

Sneer on, Nigger.

> We got the rythm, we got the style
> we'll get the power, just you wait a while

Ya think so, huh, N-boy?  Whatcha think Hymie will say 'bout that,
bruthuh? 

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan 28 11:41:15 PST 1996
Article: 118829 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: r.m.white-power : I've changed my mind
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <822798896snz@ashton.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:13:16 GMT
Lines: 38

Nigel Ashton (Nigel@ashton.demon.co.uk) writes:

> Having read the relevant threads it seems to me that there is
> a political campaign to get the group created irrespective of the
> actual need for discussion of the issues raised in the RFD. This
> is, as far as I am concerned, an abuse of process for usenet which
> also causes me to believe that I should vote against.

You are deluding yourself if you believe these words.

WHO is conducting the "political campaign"?  It was the _opponents_ of
rmwp that made a political campaign out of its proposal, not us.  What
"issues" have they raised against rmwp?  None.  What valid arguments have
been put forth against rmwp?  None.  "Oh, you can have an alt. group, but
you CAN'T have a rec. group..."  "We won't allow you to talk about
_racist_ bullshit [sic] on USENET..."  "Go talk about it on [irrelevant]
newsgroups like alt.politics.white-power..."

Were it not for the fact proud, racially-conscious White people are
supporting the creation of rec.music.white-power, our group proposal would
have encountered almost no opposition. 

There is a need for the group, we've followed the procedures, and we're
taking it to a vote.  Certainly there will be a political campaign against
us to bury us in the vote, but we will not retreat from a proper goal
because it is demanded of us by would-be censors.  Even if we are defeated
by those who have no interest in the topic or desire to discuss it, we
will at least have set a precedent illustrating just WHO has the "political
agenda" on USENET.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.
   Proponent, rmwp

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jan 28 11:52:52 PST 1996
Article: 111253 of soc.culture.african.american
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: The decline of White America... oh well!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <4clnfg$hl0@tst.hk.super.net>  <30F2D9B5.3F36@scott.net> <30F37E41.5DBB@aimnet.com> <4dghh2$jt8@floyd.santarosa.edu> <30FC4FCC.6EB@aimnet.com> <4dkhil$bnq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <30FEDF3C.A0@aimnet.com>  <31011CAF.4C9E@aimnet.com>  <31063B22.757@aimnet.c <4ebvp5$d0h@norm.uoknor.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:17:34 GMT
Lines: 49
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:16425 soc.culture.african.american:111253 alt.politics.nationalism.white:12441

James Judd writes:

> All of you white-power people had better come to grips with it. All 
> this talk about white superiority (or black inferiority), its all
> laughable in the eyes of evolutionary theory. Let's go ahead and assume
> that white people are smarter... so what? Whose genes are superior at
> propagating? That's right. Blacks. And so by the theory of evolution, yall
> will eventually become a minority, such that in a few hundred years, WE
> will be 80% of the population in America and YOU will be less than 10%!

You're certainly right that, from a standpoint of evolution, Aryans are 
indeed evolutionary failures, since we do not breed at adequate levels to 
sustain our gene pool.  

HOWEVER, Aryan technology is the ONLY thing interfering with the laws of
natural selection governing the non-White populations of the Earth. Even
if Aryans choose not to use nuclear or chemical weapons to bring Earth's
humanoid population back into sync with our planet's carrying capacity,
the decline of the Aryan Race spells utter doom for billions of less
evolved types around the world.  Once the minimum threshhold of
civilization-sustaining technical ability held solely by the Aryan Race is
lost, the technological and communication/transportation infrastructure
required to nourish colored hordes evaporates.  Put simply: no honkeys, no
poke chops and watuhmelon. 

Sure, the Asiatics would have a semblance of civilization after the
decline of the Aryan Race, but be quite aware that most Japanese and
Chinese consider Negroes black hairless apes.  There'll be no "welfare"
and certainly no compassion from them; consider what they did to Aryan 
soldiers at Bataan to get a glimpse of what they'll do to "Nigwoes." 

> 	I have nothing against White people. I think y'all will help us
> run the country just fine someday!

Without the Aryan Race, there will BE NO COUNTRY.

Sneer on, Nigger.

> We got the rythm, we got the style
> we'll get the power, just you wait a while

Ya think so, huh, N-boy?  Whatcha think Hymie will say 'bout that,
bruthuh? 

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 29 11:22:39 PST 1996
Article: 118920 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: r.m.white-power : I've changed my mind
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <822798896snz@ashton.demon.co.uk>   <4egu9t$3t3@freeside.fc.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:22:28 GMT
Lines: 40

Andrew Hackard (hackard@freeside.fc.net) writes:

>>we've followed the procedures, 

> Part of the procedure is to LISTEN when people tell you why they don't like
> your proposal.  

I listen to any and all persons who actually have a _recreational_
interest in the topic.  I do not consider _political_ arguments against it.

> Certainly, comments of the "You racist pig!" variety don't need to be
> considered; however, when any number of well-respected people tell you they
> will vote against it if you do not provide documentation of the
> practical necessity of the group, it would behoove you to heed them.

WHICH "well-respected" people?

The "where are the numbers" argument has not been put forth by either
proponents of the group, or even by neutral parties.  It has been spewed
only by those who have no interest in the group, and who have a
_political_ agenda to fulfill by defeating its creation.

I could provide numbers about music-related posts on alt.skinheads, and apwp
and apnw, but you know what, I'd be called a liar.  "Where are they?!  I
haven't seen those posts!"  "Kleim is a notorious liar.  He's making it up."
And so on.  The opponents of rmwp will NOT vote against the group on the
basis of need or probable popularity.  They will vote against it because
they don't like the topic.

> My only political agenda is to keep people from getting two friends together
> and polluting the namespace with unnecessary and poorly-supported groups.
> Talk about and listen to whatever the hell music you want; I don't care.

We'll see what the vote indicates.  

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 29 11:22:40 PST 1996
Article: 118922 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: r.m.white-power : I've changed my mind
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <822798896snz@ashton.demon.co.uk>  <4ehh2r$32k_001@bruceab.teleport.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:36:22 GMT
Lines: 65

Bruce Baugh (bruceab@teleport.com) writes:

> :"issues" have they raised against rmwp?  None.  What valid arguments have
> :been put forth against rmwp?  None.
 
> The ONLY valid arguments against a proposed newsgroup are namespace and 
> traffic. You have failed to demonstrate either that this is proper 
> namespace or that there is any serious potential for enough traffic to 
> justify tying up inodes with the group. 

We'll see when the vote occurs.  Most of the NO voters will be voting
because of their political agenda.  It has nothing to do with concern
about traffic.

> :There is a need for the group, we've followed the procedures,
 
> No, you haven't. You have made _zero_ effort to document existing traffic 
> on white-power music anywhere on Usenet or in e-mail. You have made _zero_ 
> effort to show that the group would actually be focused on the music rather 
> than on the political message (which properly belongs elsewhere, as we've 
> explained to you time and time again).

HOW does one prove something which does not even exist yet?  WE will stay
on topic.  The enemies of rmwp and of White people in general, well,
that's another story.  

> You have not made a good-faith effort to participate in actual discussion 
> about either of these issues. When pushed, you finally coughed up a 
> subscription figure for a mailing list, but still haven't explained whether 
> this is a discussion or announcement list, or divulged the total traffic on 
> it. Nor have you (or any other advocate of the group) shown that 
> white-power music traffic exists in any general music newsgroup.

Good faith effort?  With who?  People like you, who are clearly motivated
not by statistics but your own hatred of the topic?

I will not argue with fanatics.

> (I am indeed, by white-power standards, an enemy of the cause, since 
> I am strongly opposed to racism in all forms, most particularly those which 
> use the power of the state to advance themselves.)

This couldn't mean you have a deep-down dislike for the TOPIC, could you?

> I must say, Milton, that you have set a genuinely new record for 
> cluelessness in group creation. I thought it couldn't readily get more 
> stupid than it did with Citizen Chapman, but at least he read, responded 
> to, and learned some things from his critics. You, on the other hand, 
> don't.

I listen to critics.  I don't listen to fanatics.

> You won't even understand the real reasons for your group's failure.

The real reasons for rmwp's potential failure would be hundreds of
"anti-racist" (read: anti-White racist) fanatics coming out of the
woodwork to vote NO to a group they have no interest in because rmwp would
mean proud White people who wish to discuss their favorite music would
actually have equal consideration in the USENET community. 

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bruceab@teleport.com Mon Jan 29 11:26:50 PST 1996
Article: 118891 of news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.kreonet.re.kr!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!bruceab
From: bruceab@teleport.com (Bruce Baugh)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.m.white-power : I've changed my mind
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 04:05:47 GMT
Organization: The Home Trepanning Club
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4ehh2r$32k_001@bruceab.teleport.com>
References: <822798896snz@ashton.demon.co.uk> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx18-04.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

In article ,
   bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) wrote:

:"issues" have they raised against rmwp?  None.  What valid arguments have
:been put forth against rmwp?  None.

The ONLY valid arguments against a proposed newsgroup are namespace and 
traffic. You have failed to demonstrate either that this is proper 
namespace or that there is any serious potential for enough traffic to 
justify tying up inodes with the group. You haven't even _begun_ to make a 
case in either of these areas.

Your group will, therefore, quite rightly receive a lot of "no" votes from 
those of us who've bothered to find out how the process works.

:There is a need for the group, we've followed the procedures,

No, you haven't. You have made _zero_ effort to document existing traffic 
on white-power music anywhere on Usenet or in e-mail. You have made _zero_ 
effort to show that the group would actually be focused on the music rather 
than on the political message (which properly belongs elsewhere, as we've 
explained to you time and time again).

You have not made a good-faith effort to participate in actual discussion 
about either of these issues. When pushed, you finally coughed up a 
subscription figure for a mailing list, but still haven't explained whether 
this is a discussion or announcement list, or divulged the total traffic on 
it. Nor have you (or any other advocate of the group) shown that 
white-power music traffic exists in any general music newsgroup.

Finally, at least one advocate of the group has complained that the 
existing newsgroups are no good because of white-power opponents coming in. 
But you've proposed an unmoderated group, which would by definition also be 
open to precisely the same situation. To the extent that this is a valid 
argument, it's also an argument _against_ the new newsgroup.

I've had enough of this. I'm kill-filing the thread. I have seen zero, zip, 
nada sign that any advocate of the group understands, or wants to 
understand, the newsgroup creation process. And I refuse to spend any more 
time passing out clues to people who put people like me on their enemies 
list. (I am indeed, by white-power standards, an enemy of the cause, since 
I am strongly opposed to racism in all forms, most particularly those which 
use the power of the state to advance themselves.)

I must say, Milton, that you have set a genuinely new record for 
cluelessness in group creation. I thought it couldn't readily get more 
stupid than it did with Citizen Chapman, but at least he read, responded 
to, and learned some things from his critics. You, on the other hand, 
don't.

You won't even understand the real reasons for your group's failure.


bruceab@teleport.com - <*> - http://www.teleport.com/~bruceab/index.html
List Manager, Christlib, where Christian & libertarian concerns hang out
Science fiction readers: Preview S.M. Stirling's DRAKON and WORD OF NIGHT
(the new Marid Audran novel by George Alec Effin ger) at my home page.
New PGP key on Web key servers; old keys are toast.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 29 11:36:16 PST 1996
Article: 111343 of soc.culture.african.american
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Caucasian Jews discriminate against Black Jews
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:31:16 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:29285 soc.culture.african:34941 soc.culture.african.american:111343

On Sunday, crowds of Black Ethiopian Jews attempted to storm Israeli Prime
Minister Shimon Peres' office to protest the long-term Jewish policy of
discarding blood donations from Blacks. 

The blood donations are ostensibly discarded because of the threat of HIV, 
but Black Jews believe it is the result of racism by Caucasian Jews.

Apparently, the Israelis learned more from the "Nazis" than they lead on.

Maybe their hatred of Aryans is a result of jealousy instead of justice.



--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jan 29 13:06:26 PST 1996
Article: 29285 of soc.culture.jewish
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Caucasian Jews discriminate against Black Jews
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:31:16 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:29285 soc.culture.african:34941 soc.culture.african.american:111343

On Sunday, crowds of Black Ethiopian Jews attempted to storm Israeli Prime
Minister Shimon Peres' office to protest the long-term Jewish policy of
discarding blood donations from Blacks. 

The blood donations are ostensibly discarded because of the threat of HIV, 
but Black Jews believe it is the result of racism by Caucasian Jews.

Apparently, the Israelis learned more from the "Nazis" than they lead on.

Maybe their hatred of Aryans is a result of jealousy instead of justice.



--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Jan 30 11:17:29 PST 1996
Article: 118962 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power: This explains everything
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <822798896snz@ashton.demon.co.uk>  <4ehh2r$32k_001@bruceab.teleport.com>  
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:55:41 GMT
Lines: 27

Modemac (modemac@netcom.com) writes:

> : > No, you haven't. You have made _zero_ effort to document existing traffic 
> : > on white-power music anywhere on Usenet or in e-mail. You have made _zero_ 
> : > effort to show that the group would actually be focused on the music rather 
> : > than on the political message (which properly belongs elsewhere, as we've 
> : > explained to you time and time again).
> : HOW does one prove something which does not even exist yet?  WE will stay
> : on topic.  The enemies of rmwp and of White people in general, well,
> : that's another story.  
 
> My my, this little quote reveals quite a bit.
 
> "Doesn't exist yet?"
 
> Milton Kleim has just conceded that there is *no* general traffic for 
> "white power music."  Apparently, he can't prove the traffic on the 
> mailing list or on the newsgroups because there isn't any.

Imbecile.  My comment referred to the character of discussion on the
proposed rec.music.white-power, not present discussion on other groups.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Jan 30 11:27:53 PST 1996
Article: 111392 of soc.culture.african.american
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: "Nazis" and Israelis: What's the difference?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:51:21 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:29502 soc.culture.african:34962 soc.culture.african.american:111392

We've seen what the Jews of Israel do to the indigenous people of the
territory they occupy.  The Israelis have slaughtered countless Palestinians
for decades, often helpless women and children in barbaric bombing raids.

Now we see that the Jews of Israel discriminate not only against Gentile
Palestinians, but also against Jews who are not Caucasian.  The latest
Israeli fiasco involving the racial-based rejection and destruction of
blood donations from Black Jews illustrates clearly the racism of the
so-called "chosen people.".

What's the difference between the practices and beliefs of the Jews, and
those Jewish Hollywood attributes to the German National Socialists?

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jan 31 08:18:38 PST 1996
Article: 67078 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Statement of the Aryan Corps Regarding Germany's Censorship Efforts
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:08:31 GMT
Lines: 81

STATEMENT OF THE ARYAN CORPS REGARDING GERMANY'S CENSORSHIP EFFORTS


WHEREAS the totalitarian German government has sought to deny free access 
to information on the World Wide Web and Usenet via intimidation of 
Internet Access Providers;

WHEREAS freedom of conscience, opinion, belief, and expression of them 
are universal, fundamental human rights;

The Aryan Corps calls upon the entire Net community to assist in a worldwide
effort to subvert and circumvent the self-righteous, unethical movement 
for censorship by the German government.

The Aryan Corps urges activists of all political and social persuasions 
and orientations begin immediate work to establish FREEDOM SITES in 
America, Canada, and other locales, which will allow Germans and others 
behind the Electronic Iron Curtain free and unrestricted access to 
information available on the Internet.  

The FREEDOM SITES will allow Net surfers in Germany and other places 
where liberty is not valued to connect via Telnet or other means to the 
FREEDOM SITE, and obtain information regardless of content, topic, or 
political or social orientation.

Furthermore, the Aryan Corps requests that all members of the Net 
community mobilize for an e-mail and Usenet campaign to make our 
displeasure with censorship efforts, and our intentions to SUBVERT and 
CIRCUMVENT them, known throughout the German Net community, and elsewhere 
where information access is controlled in violation of basic human rights.
Announcements should be made to the following newsgroups:

soc.culture.german                     de.soc.politik
de.soc.kultur                          de.soc.recht
de.soc.misc                            de.talk.misc

The worldwide Internet community believes in freedom of expression.  
Freedom of expression is a prerequisite for the success and very survival 
of the Net.  The German government can shut off access to only a finite 
number of sites before Germany's Net access becomes useless and meaningless.
The Net community has a powerful resilience against censorship -- that 
which is tantamount to destruction of the Internet.

We of the Aryan Corps are in the vanguard against Net censorship.  We ask 
you to join us.


"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the 
press..."

                                        -- The First Amendment to the 
                                           _United States Constitution_


"Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms...freedom of thought, 
belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other 
media of communication."

                                        -- Article Two of the Canadian
                                           _Charter of Rights and Freedoms_


"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right 
includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and seek, receive 
and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of 
frontiers."

                                        -- Article Nineteen of the United
                                           Nations _Universal Declaration of
                                           Human Rights_


 



--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jan 31 15:22:50 PST 1996
Article: 22230 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Statement of the Aryan RCorps egarding Germany's Censorship Efforts
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4en7bc$rh9@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:10:38 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:12967 alt.politics.white-power:17250 alt.revisionism:22230 alt.skinheads:10885

Just Rich (rich@c2.org) writes:

>>STATEMENT OF THE ARYAN CORPS REGARDING GERMANY'S CENSORSHIP EFFORTS

> [calls for mirrors of the well-known zundelsite]

Wrong.  It is a call for much more than Zundelsite mirrors.

I propose permanent sites which will allow direct access _to_ the contro-
versial sites, not mirrors of controversial sites. 

> Milton, you are a liar, a fraud, and a discredit to your organization.

Coming from you, I'll take this as complimentary.

> Your shameless effort to claim credit for a response that has already 
> happened, and succeeded, is simply an embarrassment.

I'm not claiming credit for anything I wasn't involved in.

> Please retract this ridiculous verbiage and go back to harassing old 
> Jewish ladies.

Shall I consider this libel?

> Surely you knew about this, and yet you claim this as your idea. Exactly
> how stupid do you think we are? 

As a matter of fact, Reuben Logsdon had come up with this idea before you did.
I propose a more permanent solution than either of you propose.

> Please cancel your article and apologize, or I will do it for you.

I guess we now know your real intentions.  So much for "anti-censorship"
efforts from you.

--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews

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