From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Mar  2 10:15:56 PST 1996
Article: 20650 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revolution.counter
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Graves' forged header
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 04:58:09 GMT
Lines: 19
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:20650 alt.discrimination:43932 alt.revolution.counter:5861

Joel Rosenberg (joelr@winternet.com) writes:

> Well, you've demonstrably lied about them, Mortie.  At one point you claimed 
> that they were listed in the phone book, and then when you got caught out, you 
> claimed that they were unlisted, and had always been.

No, no Rosenberg.  I never said they were listed in the phone book.  I
said they were listed in the city directory.

> So -- when did they disown you?  And why are they in hiding?  Is it the shame 
> of having a scumsucking nazi for a son?  

You know something Rosenberg?  *I* know who my biological father is.  And
he didn't beat me.  Under different circumstances, I'd feel sorry for your
situation.

Neither of my parents have "disowned" me.  Nor are they hiding.  They have
much more important things to do that interact with a filthy minded kike
like you.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 10:22:52 PST 1996
Article: 123526 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Vote NO on rec.music.white-power!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4gt8nj$mbn@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>   <1996Feb29.140749.21323@roper.uwyo.edu> 
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:40:08 GMT
Lines: 15

Rich Graves - Encrypted (rcgraves@alpha.c2.org) writes:

> Miltie has a lot of things to do, and a lot of different accounts to use.
> efn.org, carleton.ca, freenet.org, CompuServe...

Lying again, eh Rich?

I challenge you to prvide any evidence that I have a CompuServe account.

> Who's to say that he isn't the person behind the whitewolf nym? They have
> remarkably similar views, and I think they are the only two nyms on the
> Stormfront list who never argue. 

Whitewolf will be flattered by your comparison, I'm sure.  :-)



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 10:22:53 PST 1996
Article: 123527 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Vote NO on rec.music.white-power!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4gt8nj$mbn@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> <4gtmm2$itd@artemis.it.luc.edu> <4gu78c$dqt@cnn.Princeton.EDU>  
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:45:59 GMT
Lines: 17

Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.telly.org) writes:

> Do you make many other judgements based on whose shit lists you want
> to avoid? Since the point has already been made that proponents could
> create an alt.* group at any time, there is no censorship at issue.
> The issue is demonstrate=ion of need, and appropriateness in this
> particular hierarchy. That's all -- they cannot be denied a forum, the
> most that a NO vote does is deny them one in this specific hierarchy.

Let me make clear again: we have no intention of leaving the rec.
hierarchy, even if rec.music.white-power is defeated by a flood of "hate
votes" from Jews, Marxists, and other anti-White haters.  If rmwp goes
down, then we will have no choice but to continue to post to other
semi-appropriate REC.MUSIC groups (there aren't any completely appropriate
ones, hence our rmwp proposal).  Regardless of the wishes of the posters
of those groups to exclude "racism" from them.



From mjk@efn.org Sun Mar  3 10:22:54 PST 1996
Article: 123456 of news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr" 
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Problems with the CFV for rec.music.white-power
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:13:49 -0800
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <1996Feb27.023428.19974@ircam.fr>  <4h30sg$sd1@cnn.nas.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <4h30sg$sd1@cnn.nas.nasa.gov> 

Matt Cary writes:

> So, Milt, you finally bother to show up now that the discussion 
> period is over.  You were a miserable failure as the "proponent" 
> of this group.  Were you lurking the whole time?

I was one of the most prolific posters for rmwp in the first couple weeks
after the RFD.  Once I realized that the opponents of the group had no 
intention of discussing the merits of group, I withdrew and only answered 
direct inquiries to my address.

The opponents of the rmwp were not interested in an honest discussion
then, they are not interested in an honest vote now, and they are lying
when they say "oh, why we'd support 'talk.politics.racism' but not
rec.music-white-power."  The bottom line is that the opponents of rmwp --
or ANY group where Aryan culture is to be discussed -- will do ANYTHING to
stop its creation.  I'm just waiting to see the robot mailer generated NO
votes. 

We will continue until the end of the creation process with an idea that 
is right and just, and we are continuing to keep our campaigning and 
voting honest.





From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 16:22:34 PST 1996
Article: 123589 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Vote NO on rec.music.white-power!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4gt8nj$mbn@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>    <4hcoi6$47l@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 20:00:26 GMT
Lines: 27

Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:

>>Let me make clear again: we have no intention of leaving the rec.
>>hierarchy, even if rec.music.white-power is defeated by a flood of "hate
>>votes" from Jews, Marxists, and other anti-White haters.  If rmwp goes
 
> Mr. Kleim begins the process many here predicted long ago:
> Anyone who opposes the group, ipso facto, is a "hate voter."

Anyone who loves the White race, prefers to be with White people, and
promotes White culture, is, to you, Mr. Mcvay, a "hater."

Sorry you can't swallow your own medicine.  :-)  Gee, what a surprise, Ken.

> No matter that the proposal is fully political in nature.

The proposal has BECOME political in nature, only because the opponents of
rmwp have MADE it political in nature.  It was (and is) a proposal for a
group for discussion of a particular genre of music (which of course does
have political implications, as does all "alternative" music), but it has
become a USENET "referendum" on "racism" and "racist" newsgroups because
of the actions of rmwp's opponents.

Take into account Christopher Stone's "By Any Means Necessary" post
attempting to justify use of illicit means to stop rmwp.  WHO made this
group's proposal a political issue?  The so-called "anti-racists."



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 16:22:36 PST 1996
Article: 123596 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: The CFV is finally here!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <199602292051.MAA27000@eternity.c2.org> <4ha5id$n2n@floyd.santarosa.edu> <4hat1b$n6m@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 20:39:10 GMT
Lines: 11

Christopher B. Stone (cbstone@phoenix.princeton.edu) writes:

>> May we have a good clean vote, I know that I and all of my Comrades, intend
>> to keep everything completely legal and correct...
 
> In that case, you'd better edit the swastika out of your .sig.  Some 
> countries such as Germany have laws against disseminating neo-Nazi symbols.

The poster is in California, which at last check was in the UNITED STATES,
not Germany.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 16:22:37 PST 1996
Article: 123597 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Grounds for Rejection? (Was "FRAUD ALERT")
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <820866207.1723@uunet.uu.net> <825357469.29259@uunet.uu.net> <4gt1hg$qtg@cnn.Princeton.EDU> <3133c0f9.23812549@news.alt.net> <4h7pa9$p1c@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <4hckjd$cap@nw003.infi.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 20:10:40 GMT
Lines: 33

Dana Caro James (eville@nc5.infi.net) writes:

> Assuming this is true, isn't this just grounds for terminating the entire 
> creation process for this proposal?  Or are there no "just grounds" for 
> terminating a newsgroup proposal?  Or are our news administators more 
> tolerant of (i.e. intimidated by)  a controversial hate-oriented group?  
> Maybe things have changed or are somehow different in this case, but last 
> year I was the proponent of a newsgroup which had one overly-eager 
> supporter who passed around the CFV (unethically, by definition), and *I* 
> was sharply warned by the votetaker that he was within his rights to deny 
> the group right then and there.  Yet here's a proponent who coaches his 
> supporters on how to fraudulently vote -- directly or indirectly -- and 
> the usenet community sits on their thumbs and argues about "free speech". 

NOTHING in "Tactics" "coaches [my] supporters on how to fradulently vote."

"Tactics" was written in March 1995, and the passage in question was added
later to explain how to increase one's personal security and defenses
against censorship directed toward an individual by using FreeNet
accounts, which allows one to appear to be located somewhere else (to
avoid harassment) and shields one's "home acocunt" from hate-mail attacks
against one's primary ISP.  The passage is obviously unrelated to CFVs and
newsgroup proposals in general. 

I have explicitly called for honest voting in all of my posts to USENET
and Stormfront.  And, I dare admit this, I have ordered two supporters who
proposed "ballot stuffing" to withdraw their suggestion, and not mention
it to me again.  As I've said, we can win this fair and square, and if we
lose, it will most certainly be because of dishonest tactics on the part
of OUR OPPONENTS, and not our side. 

Stop your diversionary BS arguments.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar  3 16:22:37 PST 1996
Article: 123598 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Stop rec.music.white-power...BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (Chris Stone)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4gt8nj$mbn@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>    <4hat3j$n6s@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 20:16:44 GMT
Lines: 14

Christopher B. Stone writes:

> Some people insist that my repost of the unedited CFV to six newsgroups
> constituted vote fraud.  I strenuously disagree with that interpretation
> of the guidelines, but if these detractors remain unconvinced, I say this:
> tough cookies.  Sometimes the spirit of the law is more important than 
> the letter of the law.

Well, well, well.  How candid, Mr. Stone, how candid.

I suppose robot generated NO votes are _technically_ illegal, but I'm sure
rmwp's opponents aren't beyond "reinterpreting" the "spirit" of that
prohibition, too. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar  4 08:57:13 PST 1996
Article: 14911 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revolution.counter
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!dc.daiwa.com!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!crchh327.rich.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nrtphba6.bnr.ca!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Graves' forged header
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:29:42 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.admin.net-abuse.misc:37221 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14911 alt.politics.white-power:20850 alt.discrimination:44065 alt.revolution.counter:5870


Rich Graves writes:

>You have insisted several times that you have never endeavored to hide
>what you believe. You have insisted several times that you have never
>tried to pose as something you are not. You have insisted several times
>that you are proud to be a racist, a national socialist, and an admirer of
>Adolf Hitler....What is your problem?

My "problem" is with your forgery of the header.  You made it appear as
though *I* posted it, that *I* authorized its distribution to USENET.  I
certainly did not.  It was NOT "From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA," but was
actually from you.

I'm not really concerned if my works from Stormfront are redistributed
without permission (but I am NOT giving you permission), provided the
headers are genuine, with a "From:" line showing who actually posted the
article. 

>I understand that your family is ashamed of you, but you're not hiding
>from them here. 

Where do you get this bullshit, Graves?  The ravings of Rosenberg are not
facts.

>You're reading the header wrong. It came from either netcom.com or
>stanford.edu, not c2.org.

The header fraudulently listed the "From" line as being from me, which it
was not.  That is forgery.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar  5 21:11:27 PST 1996
Article: 26168 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Milton "Mortie" Kleim:  nazi, babbling nazi, archived babbling nazi, whiny archived babbling nazi
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 23:16:27 GMT
Lines: 40
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:20986 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14976 alt.revisionism:26168


Joel Rosenberg (joelr@winternet.com) writes:

> He's apparently unemployed and unemployable...

You only wish.  You might just have met me already, and never knew it.  :-)

> ...and his parents have gone to some trouble, apparently out of shame of
> having produced such a nazi of a son, gone to some trouble to hide
> themseleves.  

Come now, Jewboy.  I thought you were supposed to have an imagination?

My parents have no need to "hide" from you.

And since you apparently have no understanding of a desire for personal
privacy, Jewboy, why don't you post your address and phone number?

> (-- Despite his lies to the contrary; Mortie didn't know that it was
> possible to quickly discover that no "Kleim, Milton" was listed in any
> phonebook in the nation.)  

You're quite a dumb shit, aren't you?  If you would look up MILTON instead
of "Mortie," you might find something.

BTW, who IS "Mortie"?  Perhaps that was/is your father's name, the guy who
abused you?  And just what abuse did you receive?  Was he an "anti-Semite"?
And a "Nazi"?

> Mortie's a babbling nazi.  He's posted many things on Usenet that he finds 
> embarrassing to be quoted on, particularly when he's trying to come on as a 
> normal citizen.  

You've yet to quote anything I've written which embarasses me. 

> Mortie's a babbling, archived, whiny nazi . . . 

At least I'm not a kike with a "thing" for beastial intercourse with canines.
And MY dad didn't beat me.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar  7 15:55:09 PST 1996
Article: 123947 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.politics.internet
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <826145602.24508@uunet.uu.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:34:06 GMT
Lines: 8


Chris Grantham (casper@optima.mme.wsu.edu) writes:

>                      REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>                unmoderated group talk.politics.internet

You've got my YES vote!



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 10 07:19:28 PST 1996
Article: 15236 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,mn.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!winternet.com!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Joel Rosenberg and his child abuse
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 05:15:52 GMT
Lines: 16
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:15236 alt.politics.white-power:21433


Why Joel Rosenberg (wrongly) assumes my parents don't love me (it's a
reflection of his own worst fears and experiences).  If he weren't such a 
dirty bastard, I might feel sorry for him (even if he is an obnoxious kike).

From: http://www.winternet.com/~joelr  (his short biography)

   
   We lived in first in Hatton, then Northwood, North Dakota -- a little
   town of about a thousand folks -- for a few years, then moved on to
   Connecticut. It's about here I'm tempted to discuss my remarkably
   dysfunctional family-of-origin, but I did promise to keep this short.
   Check out the essays, if you're interested. Or don't. Short form: best
   estimates are that two-thirds of abused kids don't go on to be abusers
   themselves, and I do my best to be part of that majority.
   


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 10 11:00:10 PST 1996
Article: 21450 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: ITS THOSE GODDAMN NIGGER EGYPTIANS AGAIN !!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4huni7$fv3@hearst.cac.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 15:24:07 GMT
Lines: 33

THE HAUGHTY KUSHITE writes:

> It is to these people that we owe so much of our fundamental elements of 
> civilization . It is these people who , (if they lived in the states 
> during the 1950s) would have to ride the back of the bus . And it is these 
> Africans who , (while people in Europe were living in caves using 
> aurignacian industry and wearing ox-skins for clothing) were ruling and 
> living in a greatly advanced African civilization . 

Let's get something clear, Boy: "African" and "Egyptian" are NOT synonyms
for Negroid.

The _original_ Egpytians (that's the people who built the pyramids and so
on) were of the (white) Mediterranean racial type (a racial type that was
once much more similar to the Nordic type, with frequent manifestations of
blondism and rufousness).  They used niggers as slaves (it seems no past
civilization ever found another use for them), and eventually, as always
happens when lower forms of hominids and fully-developed humans are in
close social proximity, racial bastardization between the two occurred,
and Egyptian civilization declined. 

> From Meroe to kush, Nubia to Egypt ; the Africans were accomplishing
> monumental works while the superior Aryans were huddled in thier caves
> speaking mumbo jumbo, lacking modern speach technique , (cacumminal
> sound) that was later introduced to them by the inferior negro.

Is this an example of the "superior" negro communication ability?  "Thier"
is supposed to be "their" and "speach" is supposed to be "speech."

"Oooga booga" and "woo! woo! woo!" were not critical contributions to the
Egyptian language.  Nor are they critical contributions to North American
English. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 10 19:56:54 PST 1996
Article: 21523 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: ITS THOSE GODDAMN NIGGER EGYPTIANS AGAIN !!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4huni7$fv3@hearst.cac.psu.edu>  
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:29:55 GMT
Lines: 14


Soren Groth (soren.groth@mailbox.swipnet.se) writes:

>>Oh, gimme a break.  IF niggers were so prolific at creating civilizations,
>>WHY are they such retards, civilizationally speaking, today?
 
>   But they're not, the fact is you don't know anything about the situation in 
> Africa

Name ONE nigger country in Africa that is self-sufficient (economically
and technologically) and stable.  Just one.

EVERY African country that has changed from Aryan rule to Negroid rule has
drastically declined.  South Africa is the latest example.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar 11 08:33:56 PST 1996
Article: 124288 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Vote YES for RMW-P!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <199603091135.DAA10296@eternity.c2.org> <31423818.75879730@news2.microserve.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:19:23 GMT
Lines: 13

Dave Ratcliffe (dave@frackit.com) writes:

> -I would like you invite you to vote for the creation of a new USENET
> -newsgroup, that is to be named rec.music.white-power.
 
> Which begs the question: If you have all the numbers you need, as you
> expressed time and again during the RFD, why are you beating the bushes
> during the CFV trying to get people to vote for your proposed group? 

Why don't you ask, "why are rmwp opponents posting the CFV and/or no vote
demands to dozens of newsgroups and mailing lists, and opponents are
sending out spams to thousands of people?"



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:07:13 PST 1996
Article: 15331 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.war,soc.culture.usa
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4g2oia$ms6@norm.uoknor.edu>  <1996Mar4.163908.115352@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <4hgbd8$3c7@news.bu.edu> <4hhvfk$5ef@elaine46.Stanford.EDU> <4hi8v1$kf8@news.mr.net> <4hksln$qvj@berlin.infomatch.com> <4hlou4$p7k@news.mr.net> <1996Mar7.135206.1@v9001.ntu.ac.sg> <4hm173$rep@news.mr.net> <313F5573.7300@ntuvax.ac.sg> <4i0pdi$4d4@independence.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 01:12:29 GMT
Lines: 39
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23260 alt.taiwan.republic:4690 soc.culture.china:123930 soc.culture.taiwan:71149 alt.politics.nationalism.white:15331 alt.politics.white-power:21622 alt.war:17268 soc.culture.usa:80622


Chiew, LeeYih (lchiew@uoknor.edu) writes:

> I am the hater of Communist system and I support the Independence
> of XinJiang and Tibet, but not Taiwan!
 
> The fact that the Independent Aircraft Carrier Battle Group is
> ordered to go near China irritate my feeling very much.

Why you poor SOB!  Who gives a shit if you and the Commie Chinamen in
Beijing don't like US ships sailing in international waters?

> If they enter Taiwan straights, I think China should sink those 
> alien ships by detonate a small nuclear weapon underneath the 
> Carrier Group.

HA HA HA HA!!

You're a dumb shit, aren't you?  "Underneath"?  

I think the Los Angeles-class submarines in the area, as well as the
Spruance-class destroyers in _Independence's_ screening force might have
soemthing to say about such an idiotic move.

> I hope that Communist Dynasty will die soon, give way to the
> democratic dynasty, which will bring back the prosperity like
> the Tang Dynasty.

The Commie regime in Beijing is here to stay!  Unlike the international
socialists in Moscow, the Beijing government is a "NATIONAL socialist"
government, that seeks prosperity and power for its own country.  And
unless stopped by the West, a truly socialist China will rule the world in
the 21st Century.

Now is the time.  Nuke the Gooks!  Before it's too late.

BTW, since you advocate destruction of America's military forces, why
doesn't a subversive bastard like you get the Hell out of America?  Go
back to Asia!


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:08:20 PST 1996
Article: 21622 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.war,soc.culture.usa
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4g2oia$ms6@norm.uoknor.edu>  <1996Mar4.163908.115352@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <4hgbd8$3c7@news.bu.edu> <4hhvfk$5ef@elaine46.Stanford.EDU> <4hi8v1$kf8@news.mr.net> <4hksln$qvj@berlin.infomatch.com> <4hlou4$p7k@news.mr.net> <1996Mar7.135206.1@v9001.ntu.ac.sg> <4hm173$rep@news.mr.net> <313F5573.7300@ntuvax.ac.sg> <4i0pdi$4d4@independence.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 01:12:29 GMT
Lines: 39
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23260 alt.taiwan.republic:4690 soc.culture.china:123930 soc.culture.taiwan:71149 alt.politics.nationalism.white:15331 alt.politics.white-power:21622 alt.war:17268 soc.culture.usa:80622


Chiew, LeeYih (lchiew@uoknor.edu) writes:

> I am the hater of Communist system and I support the Independence
> of XinJiang and Tibet, but not Taiwan!
 
> The fact that the Independent Aircraft Carrier Battle Group is
> ordered to go near China irritate my feeling very much.

Why you poor SOB!  Who gives a shit if you and the Commie Chinamen in
Beijing don't like US ships sailing in international waters?

> If they enter Taiwan straights, I think China should sink those 
> alien ships by detonate a small nuclear weapon underneath the 
> Carrier Group.

HA HA HA HA!!

You're a dumb shit, aren't you?  "Underneath"?  

I think the Los Angeles-class submarines in the area, as well as the
Spruance-class destroyers in _Independence's_ screening force might have
soemthing to say about such an idiotic move.

> I hope that Communist Dynasty will die soon, give way to the
> democratic dynasty, which will bring back the prosperity like
> the Tang Dynasty.

The Commie regime in Beijing is here to stay!  Unlike the international
socialists in Moscow, the Beijing government is a "NATIONAL socialist"
government, that seeks prosperity and power for its own country.  And
unless stopped by the West, a truly socialist China will rule the world in
the 21st Century.

Now is the time.  Nuke the Gooks!  Before it's too late.

BTW, since you advocate destruction of America's military forces, why
doesn't a subversive bastard like you get the Hell out of America?  Go
back to Asia!


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:08:21 PST 1996
Article: 21664 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.nevada.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Attention RED CHINAMEN at American Universities
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:49:06 GMT
Lines: 16
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23277 alt.taiwan.republic:4705 soc.culture.china:123941 soc.culture.taiwan:71158 soc.culture.usa:80651 alt.politics.white-power:21664

All Chinamen and other Asians attending American schools gloating about
possible attacks on American military forces, be warned. 

If you gloat about the deaths of American servicemen and destruction of
American cities, while you enjoy American freedom and American education:
go back to Asia now, or be dealt with later if we go to war. 

The fact that several pro-red China gook troublemakers can come to North
America and use their American university accounts to overtly advocate
subversive ideas (including murder of American sailors) in favor of
Beijing against America illustrates clearly why we should NEVER allow them
to come to America and Canada. 

--

http://www.natvan.com/


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:08:22 PST 1996
Article: 21666 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4g2oia$ms6@norm.uoknor.edu>  <4i1i4q$2jc@cloner4.netcom.com> <11MAR199611160422@rosie.uh.edu> <4i20k8$fvh@reader2.ix.netcom.com> <4i2tei$i9a@independence.ecn.uoknor.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:52:49 GMT
Lines: 9
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23278 alt.taiwan.republic:4706 soc.culture.china:123942 soc.culture.taiwan:71159 soc.culture.usa:80654 alt.politics.white-power:21666

Subversive anti-American at an American university (lchiew@uoknor.edu) writes:

>>And starting a nuclear war with the US would quickly bring that to 
>>an end.

> China is much tougher than that, IMHO, a nuclear war will have less 
> damage than Mongol invasion.

Let's find out.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:08:23 PST 1996
Article: 21667 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <1996Mar4.163908.115352@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <4hgbd8$3c7@news.bu.edu> <4hhvfk$5ef@elaine46.Stanford.EDU> <4hi8v1$kf8@news.mr.net> <4hksln$qvj@berlin.infomatch.com> <4hlou4$p7k@news.mr.net> <1996Mar7.135206.1@v9001.ntu.ac.sg> <4hm173$rep@news.mr.net> <313F5573.7300@ntuvax.ac.sg> <4i0pdi$4d4@independence.ecn.uoknor.edu> <4i1i4q$2jc@cloner4.netcom.com>  <4i337u$rdh@axe.netdoor.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:56:18 GMT
Lines: 12
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23279 alt.taiwan.republic:4707 soc.culture.china:123943 soc.culture.taiwan:71160 alt.politics.white-power:21667

Dannie Hawkins writes:

> China could probably sneak in a few nukes on the larger metro centers
> near coastal areas, such as nyc, miami, la, etc., and they could make a
> Special effort to level dc, but if China does target these areas, I hope
> they use biological weapons _if at all possible_. Nukes are just so damn
> nasty.

Are you mad!?!?!  You're just as bad as these Commie gooks.

Biological weapons used against Los Angeles will take out Fallbrook, too.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 12 08:08:23 PST 1996
Article: 21668 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.nevada.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4i0soh$adn@panix3.panix.com> <31449369.656F@primenet.com> <4i3bqg$b06@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:00:36 GMT
Lines: 10
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23280 alt.taiwan.republic:4708 soc.culture.china:123944 soc.culture.taiwan:71161 soc.culture.usa:80656 alt.politics.white-power:21668

Tom Beam (metalbag@ix.netcom.com) writes:

>     They only have to get one through the curtain.  On the other hand,
> if there is a Trident in the vicinity and the chinese do manage to
> vaporize the Independence, china would very quickly become a puddle of
> molten slag.  

Not only the USS Ohio and USS Michigan could have some fun, but so could
Warren, Minot, Grand Forks, and Ellsworth Air Force Bases.  :-)



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Mar 13 23:09:37 PST 1996
Article: 21770 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Detonate a nuclear weapon under Independent Aircraft Carrier BG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4g2oia$ms6@norm.uoknor.edu>  <4i1i4q$2jc@cloner4.netcom.com> <11MAR199611160422@rosie.uh.edu> <4i20k8$fvh@reader2.ix.netcom.com> <4i2tei$i9a@independence.ecn.uoknor.edu>  <4i6tgh$kco@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:51:34 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.china:23322 alt.taiwan.republic:4750 soc.culture.china:123974 soc.culture.taiwan:71190 alt.politics.white-power:21770

Peter Seet replies to me:

>>> China is much tougher than that, IMHO, a nuclear war will have less 
>>> damage than Mongol invasion.
 
>>Let's find out....Milton Kleim

> In a thermo-nuclear war there is no winner. 

Who says?  I'm not talking about MSE; I'm talking about China being on the
receiving end of about 100 megatons of American nukes.  

If the Chinamen decide to fuck with the USA, then America will undoubtedly
win.  And so will the rest of the world, after the Red Chinese Menace is
neutralized.

> Two hundred million or more people will be incinerated and cities will be
> flatened. 

Yeah, but you'd have about a billion more to spare.  And they'd be CHINESE
cities, not Americans ones.  In other words, so what?

> There will be nuclear winters, babies will be born deformed
> and cancer will be claiming more lives for years thereafter.

A limited nuclear attack, such as 100 megatons, would do no more damage
to the environment than the nuclear tests conducted in the '50s and '60s.

> Are you so immature and insentitive to want to find out who 
> will be the winner like in a computer game?  Get a life.

Tell that to the gooks in Beijing.  They started it, and America may very
well have to finish it -- and them.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Mar 14 10:19:52 PST 1996
Article: 124536 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Rec.music.white-power vote fraud? Hardly.
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4i37hu$qej@malasada.lava.net> <4i45bl$prs@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> <4i4ffj$h94@kirin.wwa.com> <4i4j2d$7i2@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> <4i59v0$f67@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:57:33 GMT
Lines: 26

Christopher B. Stone (cbstone@tucson.princeton.edu) writes:

> Quite possibly this person weighed the issues and decided that the 
> neo-Nazis *shouldn't* have a toehold on Usenet, even if it means some 
> limits on free speech at the margins.  That's OK too.  Reasonable people 
> can disagree over whether or not libertarianism is justified.

Translation: I believe in free speech for only those people who agree
with me.

> Furthermore, if indeed the guidelines make it next to impossible for the
> uninitiated to campaign against a repugnant CFV outside of news.groups,
> then I suggest that the problem lies not with the uninitiated, but with
> the guidelines.  Sometimes the spirit of the law is more important than
> the letter of the law.

Translation: I will do anything, and approve of/justify anything, which
stops people whom I disagree with from expressing their ideas and opinions.

> The spirit of the law tells me, intutively, that the Green Party can 
> justifiably warn people of neo-Nazi activity on the net.

Translation: I will ignore USENET group creation convention, and do
whatever I like when someone whom I disagree with proposes a newsgroup I
don't like.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Mar 16 09:50:24 PST 1996
Article: 240516 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Ban Guns?  -- Or -- Ban Perverts?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:00:02 GMT
Lines: 72
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.british:98618 alt.politics.british:32901 talk.politics.guns:240516

kemballm.cr.ohsu@ohsu.edu replies to me:

>>It is not surprising to see the leftist ideologues shrieking for more and
>>more limitations on freedom to possess firearms in the aftermath of the
>>tragedy in Scotland.  In their typical dismissal of individual respons-
>>ibility, they'd like everyone to imagine that guns alone killed the
>>children and their teacher.
 
> Guns killed them,  period.  If you cannot legislate against mental 
> instability, you can at least restrict access to implements that may be used 
> to cause damage to others.  I'd rather ban guns than have laws telling me who 
> can walk the streets and who can't.

It is always so curious how "liberal" apologists for pedophiles and other
perverts (a tiny minority) scream about "human rights" yet are also the
first to advocate taking away rights to posess self-defense tools from a
majority of law-abiding citizens. 

Guns did NOT kill alone.  Cars are also the weapon used in many crimes.  No
one advocates the banning of the latter.

>>They insist that you accept the idea that if more restrictions on your
>>freedom were in place -- restriction on your ability to have the tools to
>>defend yourself and your loved ones -- the innocents would still be alive. 
 
> How does this arguement relate to the Dunblane situation?  How was Hamilton 
> defending himself?  Would you have prefered a shoot-out? 

I am illustrating the stupidty of gun-control advocates' arguments.  Gun
control, strict as it is in Britain, did not prevent tragedy.  Pervert
control would have.

>>Thomas Hamilton, the mad killer, was a committed pervert, a pedophile who
>>was known by the community to have a fetish for young boys.  It is obvious
>>that, despite the silence of the leftist controlled media, Hamilton was
>>insanely obssessed with little boys to the point of taking horrible action
>>-- the action he engaged in -- to exact "revenge" upon a society that did
>>not approve of his disgusting perversion.
 
> My reading of events was that girls and boys made up the dead.  

Yeah?  They were convenient targets.  He just wanted to exact an insane
"revenge" on the community that refused to accept he and his perversion,
and didn't care if it was boys or boys and girls that got it.

>>Pedophilia, contrary to the lies of leftist psychologists and "social
>>workers," is NOT an "alternative lifestyle." It is NOT an acceptable form
>>of sexuality.  It is a crime, against both society and Nature.  The
>>apologist sfor pedophilia are accomplices to the Slaughter of the
>>Innocents.  And their crusade to legitimize pedophilia, most notably in
>>their attempt to "mainstream" the criminal-conspiracy so-called "North
>>American Man-Boy Love Asociation," must be dealt with decisively, and
>>neturalized. 
 
>>No more nonsense about "gun control."  Let's address the CAUSE of crime
>>involving firearms.  
 
> Conclusion:  pedophiles carry guns?  Outlaw pedophiles and you also 
> address the gun issue?  I don't think so.

No.  Ban perverts and you prevent similar tragedies such as this.  Gun
control didn't prevent it. 

> In different circumstances I might agree wih your views on pedophile 
> extremism.  But not when they are railroaded in on the back of this 
> tragedy.  The survivors of Dunblane deserve better than to 
> have political grandstanding built on their grief.

I guess you'll just have to call up the leftist newsmedia to protest, who
were the first to insinuate that more gun control will prevent more dead
children killed by perverts. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Mar 16 13:28:51 PST 1996
Article: 240516 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Ban Guns?  -- Or -- Ban Perverts?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:00:02 GMT
Lines: 72
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.british:98618 alt.politics.british:32901 talk.politics.guns:240516

kemballm.cr.ohsu@ohsu.edu replies to me:

>>It is not surprising to see the leftist ideologues shrieking for more and
>>more limitations on freedom to possess firearms in the aftermath of the
>>tragedy in Scotland.  In their typical dismissal of individual respons-
>>ibility, they'd like everyone to imagine that guns alone killed the
>>children and their teacher.
 
> Guns killed them,  period.  If you cannot legislate against mental 
> instability, you can at least restrict access to implements that may be used 
> to cause damage to others.  I'd rather ban guns than have laws telling me who 
> can walk the streets and who can't.

It is always so curious how "liberal" apologists for pedophiles and other
perverts (a tiny minority) scream about "human rights" yet are also the
first to advocate taking away rights to posess self-defense tools from a
majority of law-abiding citizens. 

Guns did NOT kill alone.  Cars are also the weapon used in many crimes.  No
one advocates the banning of the latter.

>>They insist that you accept the idea that if more restrictions on your
>>freedom were in place -- restriction on your ability to have the tools to
>>defend yourself and your loved ones -- the innocents would still be alive. 
 
> How does this arguement relate to the Dunblane situation?  How was Hamilton 
> defending himself?  Would you have prefered a shoot-out? 

I am illustrating the stupidty of gun-control advocates' arguments.  Gun
control, strict as it is in Britain, did not prevent tragedy.  Pervert
control would have.

>>Thomas Hamilton, the mad killer, was a committed pervert, a pedophile who
>>was known by the community to have a fetish for young boys.  It is obvious
>>that, despite the silence of the leftist controlled media, Hamilton was
>>insanely obssessed with little boys to the point of taking horrible action
>>-- the action he engaged in -- to exact "revenge" upon a society that did
>>not approve of his disgusting perversion.
 
> My reading of events was that girls and boys made up the dead.  

Yeah?  They were convenient targets.  He just wanted to exact an insane
"revenge" on the community that refused to accept he and his perversion,
and didn't care if it was boys or boys and girls that got it.

>>Pedophilia, contrary to the lies of leftist psychologists and "social
>>workers," is NOT an "alternative lifestyle." It is NOT an acceptable form
>>of sexuality.  It is a crime, against both society and Nature.  The
>>apologist sfor pedophilia are accomplices to the Slaughter of the
>>Innocents.  And their crusade to legitimize pedophilia, most notably in
>>their attempt to "mainstream" the criminal-conspiracy so-called "North
>>American Man-Boy Love Asociation," must be dealt with decisively, and
>>neturalized. 
 
>>No more nonsense about "gun control."  Let's address the CAUSE of crime
>>involving firearms.  
 
> Conclusion:  pedophiles carry guns?  Outlaw pedophiles and you also 
> address the gun issue?  I don't think so.

No.  Ban perverts and you prevent similar tragedies such as this.  Gun
control didn't prevent it. 

> In different circumstances I might agree wih your views on pedophile 
> extremism.  But not when they are railroaded in on the back of this 
> tragedy.  The survivors of Dunblane deserve better than to 
> have political grandstanding built on their grief.

I guess you'll just have to call up the leftist newsmedia to protest, who
were the first to insinuate that more gun control will prevent more dead
children killed by perverts. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 17 13:34:07 PST 1996
Article: 124790 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Problems with the CFV for rec.music.white-power
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4h30sg$sd1@cnn.nas.nasa.gov> <4hgj2s$n9@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> <1996Mar5.131630.22587@ircam.fr>  <4ifs5s$1mi@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:29:50 GMT
Lines: 8

Richard Charles Graves (llurch@Networking.Stanford.EDU) writes:

> By the way, I have not received an ack for my one legitimate vote, nor has
> Michael responded to my email complaints. Sendmail logs to which I do not
> have write access should be sufficient to verify these facts. 

We see it coming:  "Handler is a neo-Nazi!  He's fixing the vote!"



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 17 13:34:08 PST 1996
Article: 124792 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-powder and multiple addresses of potential voters
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <1996Mar17.083353.27927@ircam.fr>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:34:54 GMT
Lines: 23

Michel Fingerhut (fingerhu@ircam.fr) writes:

> As one of the supporters of the group was worried about "how many
> paranoid wealthy opponents will start multiple AOL accounts with five
> addresses each, so they can vote all day to "legitimately" defeat the
> proposal", let me reassure him/her by listing some accounts of one
> Milton Kleim (I have no idea how wealthy he is; with as a Jewish-sounding
> name as his, he must be):
 
>         ag264@detroit.freenet.org
>         bb748@freenet.carleton.ca
>         be353@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU (Milton John Kleim)
>         bn857@freenet.toronto.on.ca
>         hermann@cloudnet.com
>         hermann@magellan.cloudnet.com
>         hermann@stcloud.msus.edu
>         mjk@efn.org
>         MKleim@aol.com

Come now.  You can do better than that!  There are more, many more.  :-)

But I'm only voting with one of them.



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Mar 18 10:18:51 PST 1996
Article: 240829 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: Ban Guns?  -- Or -- Ban Perverts?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <9603162005244383@election.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 10:08:16 GMT
Lines: 43
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.british:98753 alt.politics.british:33038 talk.politics.guns:240829

David Boothroyd replies to me:

>> > I'd rather ban guns than have laws telling me who can walk the streets
>> > and who can't.
 
>> It is always so curious how "liberal" apologists scream about "human rights"
>> yet are also the first to advocate taking away rights to posess self-defense
>> tools from a majority of law-abiding citizens. 
 
> How odd. The argument that guns ought to be available to ordinary citizens
> so they can have some means of self-defence, which is the primary argument
> used against gun control in the US, is virtually absent in the political
> debate in Britain.

Then I guess the British media doesn't represent the opinion of the poor chap
who lives in crime-infested London (or any other cesspool of Britain).

>> >>Thomas Hamilton, the mad killer, was a committed pervert, a pedophile who
>> >>was known by the community to have a fetish for young boys.
  
>> > My reading of events was that girls and boys made up the dead.  
 
>> Yeah?  They were convenient targets.  He just wanted to exact an insane
>> "revenge" on the community that refused to accept he and his perversion,
>> and didn't care if it was boys or boys and girls that got it.
 
> This was not the case. Hamilton's motives are not known so far, but some of
> his history is. He spent more than twenty years denying vigourously that
> he was sexually interested in young boys, so it is not credible to claim
> his motive was against the community not accepting this - he himself did
> not accept it. This seems to me a much more profitable study to anyone
> attempting to ascertain a reason - if indeed there is a reason to be found.

This argumentation is ridiculous!  Of course Hamilton is not going to say,
"yes, I find young boys sexually stimulating." The community would have
dealt with him in their own way if the "authorities" did not, upon such a
candid admission he was exploiting their children. 

Hamilton was an obvious pervert, asking his "boy's club" participants to
unclothe for "exercise."  And photograph them, too.  He may not have
_injured_ any of the kids (until the massacre, of course), but he did
exploit them for his sick purposes. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 19 00:27:02 PST 1996
Article: 125034 of news.groups
Newsgroups: news.groups
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Subject: Re: rec.music.white-power
Message-ID: 
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 02:26:43 GMT
Lines: 9

Stephanie Smith (mspompom@mtcc.com) writes:

> You've been had.

Put up or shut up, Smith.

Show us your evidence that one of our supporters issued that spam.  Or are
you just blowing like always?



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 24 15:08:56 PST 1996
Article: 15936 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.internet.media-coverage,alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.usenet,alt.censorship,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: rec.music.white-power editorial in _USA Today_
Date: 22 Mar 1996 02:35:15 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 55
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <4it3l3$4lu@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.groups:125632 alt.internet.media-coverage:14578 alt.culture.internet:16036 alt.culture.usenet:20733 alt.censorship:74370 alt.skinheads:15752 alt.politics.nationalism.white:15936 alt.politics.white-power:22598


_USA Today_ editorial, March 21, 1996

"RACISM ON THE NET"
  
Even in the wildest reaches of the Internet, where anything goes and most
things have gone at least twice, the flow of free speech is sometimes at
risk. 
   
Take this ugly little battle: On one side, a band of racists wants a
formal place on the Net to discuss "white power" music. On the other, a
cadre of Internet users believes white power deserves no such setting. 
   
At risk is the wondrous anarchy of the Internet's newsgroups. These exist
by the thousands in an Internet subset called Usenet, where they are
divided in two. 
   
In the "alternative" category, newsgroups careen about essentially without
limits. In the other, qualified newsgroups are organized into eight
subject "hierarchies": politics, science, etc. Membership in these is
preferred because, for the most part, these hierarchies are carried by the
Internet's networks without question. 
   
In this case, a fan proposed that the "recreation" hierarchy, which
includes music sections, add a white-power newsgroup. This would put the
music - and its central tenets - smack in the middle of the Net. 
   
Then the fight commenced. Although the Usenet contains no real structure,
it is self-regulating. Newsgroups proposed for a hierarchy are subject to
a discussion period and then balloting by interested Netizens. 
   
In this case, opponents argued that white-power advocates should hold
their discussions in one of the "alternative" newsgroups; that the
hierarchies constituted a special garden in the Net's "village green"; and
that white-power music deserved no bench there. 
   
To be sure, racism deserves neither respect nor credibility. But in this
case, exclusion may have unintended results. 
   
If offensive ideas by themselves are a basis for exclusion, then who else
should be locked out? Some would make the same argument against the
hip-hop and music-poetry newsgroups, where harsh and violent rap lyrics
may be discussed. 
   
Without their own newsgroup, the white-power devotees will only
contaminate other newsgroups with their static. Give them a lair to call
their own, and at least you know where not to tread. 
   
There are advantages to Usenet's ad hoc self-governance. It helps protect
the system from outsiders seeking to control its carbonated anarchy. But
if the system then turns against speech, the result is the same: Free
exchange of ideas is constricted. Even in the ether - especially in the
ether - that's something to beware. 




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 26 19:08:04 PST 1996
Article: 22598 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.internet.media-coverage,alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.usenet,alt.censorship,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: rec.music.white-power editorial in _USA Today_
Date: 22 Mar 1996 02:35:15 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 55
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <4it3l3$4lu@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.groups:125632 alt.internet.media-coverage:14578 alt.culture.internet:16036 alt.culture.usenet:20733 alt.censorship:74370 alt.skinheads:15752 alt.politics.nationalism.white:15936 alt.politics.white-power:22598


_USA Today_ editorial, March 21, 1996

"RACISM ON THE NET"
  
Even in the wildest reaches of the Internet, where anything goes and most
things have gone at least twice, the flow of free speech is sometimes at
risk. 
   
Take this ugly little battle: On one side, a band of racists wants a
formal place on the Net to discuss "white power" music. On the other, a
cadre of Internet users believes white power deserves no such setting. 
   
At risk is the wondrous anarchy of the Internet's newsgroups. These exist
by the thousands in an Internet subset called Usenet, where they are
divided in two. 
   
In the "alternative" category, newsgroups careen about essentially without
limits. In the other, qualified newsgroups are organized into eight
subject "hierarchies": politics, science, etc. Membership in these is
preferred because, for the most part, these hierarchies are carried by the
Internet's networks without question. 
   
In this case, a fan proposed that the "recreation" hierarchy, which
includes music sections, add a white-power newsgroup. This would put the
music - and its central tenets - smack in the middle of the Net. 
   
Then the fight commenced. Although the Usenet contains no real structure,
it is self-regulating. Newsgroups proposed for a hierarchy are subject to
a discussion period and then balloting by interested Netizens. 
   
In this case, opponents argued that white-power advocates should hold
their discussions in one of the "alternative" newsgroups; that the
hierarchies constituted a special garden in the Net's "village green"; and
that white-power music deserved no bench there. 
   
To be sure, racism deserves neither respect nor credibility. But in this
case, exclusion may have unintended results. 
   
If offensive ideas by themselves are a basis for exclusion, then who else
should be locked out? Some would make the same argument against the
hip-hop and music-poetry newsgroups, where harsh and violent rap lyrics
may be discussed. 
   
Without their own newsgroup, the white-power devotees will only
contaminate other newsgroups with their static. Give them a lair to call
their own, and at least you know where not to tread. 
   
There are advantages to Usenet's ad hoc self-governance. It helps protect
the system from outsiders seeking to control its carbonated anarchy. But
if the system then turns against speech, the result is the same: Free
exchange of ideas is constricted. Even in the ether - especially in the
ether - that's something to beware. 




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 26 19:08:05 PST 1996
Article: 22976 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.motss,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.white-power,soc.motss
Subject: "Homophobia": the Big Lie
Date: 25 Mar 1996 19:51:36 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 18
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <4j6tg8$3et@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.homosexual:52769 alt.politics.homosexuality:86667 alt.sex.motss:27070 alt.politics.correct:89207 alt.politics.white-power:22976 soc.motss:210265

There is no more dishonest and inaccurate misnomer in politically-correct
parlance than the term "homophobia."  

What does "homophobia" mean?  Well, if we look at its roots, it means
"fear of homosexuals."

I certainly don't fear homosexuals for what they are.  Nor do I believe
the majority of normal, healthy individuals do, either. 

"Homophobia" is a catch-all term applied to anyone who dares to expose the
reality behind the homosexual death-style.  A "homophobe" is anyone who
factually asserts that sodomites, due to their filthy and disgusting
practice of anal intercourse, pose a dire public health threat by
spreading the HIV virus.  A "homophobe" is one who dares expose the
self-serving homosexual agenda of promoting "sex education" which condones
the homosexual death-style. 

No, I don't fear homosexuals.  They just digust me.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Mar 26 19:08:05 PST 1996
Article: 23006 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!dildog.lgc.com!news.sesqui.net!news01.aud.alcatel.com!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.motss,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.white-power,soc.motss
Subject: Homosexuality: Menace to Society
Date: 25 Mar 1996 19:38:02 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 29
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <4j6smq$358@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.homosexual:52789 alt.politics.homosexuality:86701 alt.sex.motss:27082 alt.politics.correct:89277 alt.politics.white-power:23006 soc.motss:210289


Whereas homosexuality is a crime against society and Nature;

Whereas homosexual behavior is a public health menace; 

Whereas homosexuality is a mental illness and not a civil right;

We seek and demand the following:

1) That all special rights for homosexuals be immediately repealed.

2) That all sodomites be tested for the HIV antibodies, and quarantined if 
   found to carry them.

3) That all homosexual terrorists be dealt with by any means necessary.

4) That all homosexuals in positions of influence over children and in 
   critical occupations be given the option of compassionate mental 
   treatment, or permanent termination from their employment.


The rights of society preclude the rights of purveyors of pernicious mental
illness and fatal diseases.  The homosexual death style cannot and will 
not be accepted as an equal and healthy alternative to natural coupling 
between man and woman.

--

AIDS cures homosexuality.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Mar 27 06:46:44 PST 1996
Article: 15752 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.internet.media-coverage,alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.usenet,alt.censorship,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: rec.music.white-power editorial in _USA Today_
Date: 22 Mar 1996 02:35:15 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 55
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <4it3l3$4lu@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.groups:125632 alt.internet.media-coverage:14578 alt.culture.internet:16036 alt.culture.usenet:20733 alt.censorship:74370 alt.skinheads:15752 alt.politics.nationalism.white:15936 alt.politics.white-power:22598


_USA Today_ editorial, March 21, 1996

"RACISM ON THE NET"
  
Even in the wildest reaches of the Internet, where anything goes and most
things have gone at least twice, the flow of free speech is sometimes at
risk. 
   
Take this ugly little battle: On one side, a band of racists wants a
formal place on the Net to discuss "white power" music. On the other, a
cadre of Internet users believes white power deserves no such setting. 
   
At risk is the wondrous anarchy of the Internet's newsgroups. These exist
by the thousands in an Internet subset called Usenet, where they are
divided in two. 
   
In the "alternative" category, newsgroups careen about essentially without
limits. In the other, qualified newsgroups are organized into eight
subject "hierarchies": politics, science, etc. Membership in these is
preferred because, for the most part, these hierarchies are carried by the
Internet's networks without question. 
   
In this case, a fan proposed that the "recreation" hierarchy, which
includes music sections, add a white-power newsgroup. This would put the
music - and its central tenets - smack in the middle of the Net. 
   
Then the fight commenced. Although the Usenet contains no real structure,
it is self-regulating. Newsgroups proposed for a hierarchy are subject to
a discussion period and then balloting by interested Netizens. 
   
In this case, opponents argued that white-power advocates should hold
their discussions in one of the "alternative" newsgroups; that the
hierarchies constituted a special garden in the Net's "village green"; and
that white-power music deserved no bench there. 
   
To be sure, racism deserves neither respect nor credibility. But in this
case, exclusion may have unintended results. 
   
If offensive ideas by themselves are a basis for exclusion, then who else
should be locked out? Some would make the same argument against the
hip-hop and music-poetry newsgroups, where harsh and violent rap lyrics
may be discussed. 
   
Without their own newsgroup, the white-power devotees will only
contaminate other newsgroups with their static. Give them a lair to call
their own, and at least you know where not to tread. 
   
There are advantages to Usenet's ad hoc self-governance. It helps protect
the system from outsiders seeking to control its carbonated anarchy. But
if the system then turns against speech, the result is the same: Free
exchange of ideas is constricted. Even in the ether - especially in the
ether - that's something to beware. 




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 31 19:07:00 PST 1996
Article: 89207 of alt.politics.correct
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.motss,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.white-power,soc.motss
Subject: "Homophobia": the Big Lie
Date: 25 Mar 1996 19:51:36 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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There is no more dishonest and inaccurate misnomer in politically-correct
parlance than the term "homophobia."  

What does "homophobia" mean?  Well, if we look at its roots, it means
"fear of homosexuals."

I certainly don't fear homosexuals for what they are.  Nor do I believe
the majority of normal, healthy individuals do, either. 

"Homophobia" is a catch-all term applied to anyone who dares to expose the
reality behind the homosexual death-style.  A "homophobe" is anyone who
factually asserts that sodomites, due to their filthy and disgusting
practice of anal intercourse, pose a dire public health threat by
spreading the HIV virus.  A "homophobe" is one who dares expose the
self-serving homosexual agenda of promoting "sex education" which condones
the homosexual death-style. 

No, I don't fear homosexuals.  They just digust me.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Mar 31 19:07:01 PST 1996
Article: 89277 of alt.politics.correct
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.motss,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.white-power,soc.motss
Subject: Homosexuality: Menace to Society
Date: 25 Mar 1996 19:38:02 GMT
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Whereas homosexuality is a crime against society and Nature;

Whereas homosexual behavior is a public health menace; 

Whereas homosexuality is a mental illness and not a civil right;

We seek and demand the following:

1) That all special rights for homosexuals be immediately repealed.

2) That all sodomites be tested for the HIV antibodies, and quarantined if 
   found to carry them.

3) That all homosexual terrorists be dealt with by any means necessary.

4) That all homosexuals in positions of influence over children and in 
   critical occupations be given the option of compassionate mental 
   treatment, or permanent termination from their employment.


The rights of society preclude the rights of purveyors of pernicious mental
illness and fatal diseases.  The homosexual death style cannot and will 
not be accepted as an equal and healthy alternative to natural coupling 
between man and woman.

--

AIDS cures homosexuality.

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