From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Sep  8 08:01:14 PDT 1996
Article: 63389 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
Date: 7 Sep 1996 19:35:56 GMT
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I am assuming someone posted the excerpts from _the Turner Diaries_ directed
at me as some sort of dark humor.  However, let me make a few comments about
it anyway.

I will in no way be intimidated by any "movement" assholes, whomever they
may be or whatever they may represent.  I have spoken my mind, and will not
withdraw any denunciatory statement of truth I have made against the
"movement."  I would advise any "heroes" out there that they leave me alone,
as I requested.

I am more than adequately prepared with weapons and security measures to
counter any genuine threat to my safety.  While I'd rather never be placed
in such a position, I am ready and more than willing to defend myself with
whatever means are necessary. LET EVERYONE CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THIS: I would
not hesitate for a second to do what is necessary to defend myself, those
around me, or my home.

As for the philosophical implications of the excerpt taken from _the Turner
Diaries_, let me state that at no time did I take an oath to any man or any
organization.  I am not bound by any "code of honor" that I voluntarily
submitted to.  I have never held a "movement" position or "rank" granted to
me to by another.  I joined the National Alliance voluntarily, and resigned
in proper manner.  My resignation from and denunciation of the "movement,"
including the National Alliance, came long after my resignation from the
Alliance itself.  I do not have to justify my actions to anyone. 

I am not afraid of any "movement" morons and nut-cases coming after me for
my statements of truth (which make them fear for their money-making
potential and the the cohesion of their infantile fantasy worlds), for my
"cause" is right and just.  Theirs is not.  As God could not bless Hitler's
"movement" decades ago, resulting in Germany's defeat by other evil forces,
God cannot bless the "movement" and the purposes of the National Alliance or
Resistance Records today.  They, too, will fail, and as I made clear, I wish
to be no part of their unholy "cause."  

My Fate is in the Hand of God, not in that of wild-eyed mental cases who
desire "revenge" against a "race-traitor" like me.  Several "movement"
activists have already resigned with us.  WhiteWolf will shortly announce
his own resignation, for some of the same reasons as my own.  I dare quote
the German prayer: "Gott mit uns" --  but not with William Pierce or George
Burdi.  I shall do right.  To quote a great German leader, Dr. Martin
Luther: "Here I stand, I can do nothing other."

If the post was a joke, ha ha.  If it was not, then YOU -- the "movement"
fanatic who posted it -- stand warned.  Steer clear of me, and we'll both be
better off.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Sep 10 07:18:46 PDT 1996
Article: 64002 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
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"Dave Harman" replies to me:

> ! I am more than adequately prepared with weapons and security measures to
> ! counter any genuine threat to my safety.  While I'd rather never be placed
> ! in such a position, I am ready and more than willing to defend myself with
> ! whatever means are necessary. LET EVERYONE CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THIS: I would
> ! not hesitate for a second to do what is necessary to defend myself, those
> ! around me, or my home.
 
> I'm happy for you, manliness is next to godliness.  Glock 26's are the 
> latest piece. 

Winchesters, Sturm-Rugers, and Carl Walthers work for me.  :-)

Although I wouldn't mind a SIG-Sauer...

> I cannot find the Barricade edition stocked in any bookstores, the
> ability to order it is not good enough.  

I've found it in several "normal" bookstores.  WHERE are you looking?

> Why not instead go and attempt to advertise in any periodical that makes
> the pretense of supporting free speech?

Well, I shock myself when I say this, but I'm now convinced that _the
Turner Diaries_ is an _abuse_ of free speech, even as interpreted by the
Founding Fathers (whom in my book count more than modern legal
"theorists").  Publications have a legitimate justification for not
publicizing it.  But, there is also a case to be made, as Lyle Stuart did,
that dissemination of the book has greater positive effect, than does
suppressing it.  The more normal people (i.e., those who are not bitter at
society -- as I was -- or loony, or even totally fucking nuts) who read
the book and are absolutely repulsed by the base hatred (no, I didn't
believe it was a book of "love for one's Race" when I was in the
"movement," either) and mad schemes and dreams within it's covers, the
better.  The greater awareness of the threat to not only non-Whites, but
Aryans who don't share the author's "vision," the greater potential that
the "vision" will not be realized (yet again), even in small scale. 

> ! If the post was a joke, ha ha.  If it was not, then YOU -- the "movement"
> ! fanatic who posted it -- stand warned.  Steer clear of me, and we'll both be
> ! better off.

> Fool.  It was posted by an anti-racist hoping for a predictable response.
> The operation was a complete success.

*I* am the fool?  [Now everyone control your laughter, please.]

I'm well-aware that an anti-racist or non-racist may have posted it, but
I'm also aware that there are "movement" assholes out there who are quite
pleased with what the implications of that post were.

> Seriously, how do feel about posting the Turner Diaries itself to usenet?
> I mean, if the problem is distribution....

It's also quite easily obtained at:

http://www.webmaker.net/alpha/ALPHAnet/books/Turner/

Sure, spread it around; there's much to be gained by letting people
read it.  

> Why not consider Hunter, National Socialism Primer, Rahowa, etc., to be the 
> collective property of the movement?  

You might want to ask William Pierce and George Burdi what they think
about your suggestion regarding the first and last items... [take into
account Pierce's doubling of the sale price of TTD, and Burdi's
self-manufactured "White Man's Code of Honor" prohibition against copying
his CDs...]

As for my _National Socialism Primer_, obviously I no longer advance it as
a legitimate and realistic political tome.  In fact, I have requested
several sites, including Don Black's Stormfront, to remove it.  Some have
removed it; Black refuses to remove it, or even acknowledge my requests.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr. 
    FORMER "movement" asshole  ;-)

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Sep 10 07:18:47 PDT 1996
Article: 64086 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: RE: "Dave Harman" Alleges Vague Threat On Milton Kleim By Anti-R
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Sylvia Rowe (WA150%UTMARTN.BITNET@UGA.cc.UGA.edu) writes:

> What's interesting to me (and I don't know if the rest of you picked
> up on it) is that Dave Harman OBC (obviously one of McOyVey's flunkies)
> is really concerned about who "threatened" Milton. 

Actually, Sylvia, Mr. "Harman" is an "Aryan racialist," who has decided to
append meaningless letters to his name to mock Mcvay.  And he's one of the
more blatant examples of why I left the "movement."  "Imbecile" does not
even come close...

> I thought that McOyVey and crew could care less if Milton were found
> hacked into tiny bits, individually wrapped in cling film and shoveled into
> an abandoned refrigerator. Now all of a sudden people care? Very
> suspicious. 

I don't imagine very many "anti-racists" give a shit what happens to me,
being blinded by base hatred as they are.  But neither do I care if they
use the matter for their own political agenda; most of what has been said
by my former opponents is true.

As for my being "hacked into tiny bits," that is a highly unlikely event;
more likely (but still unlikely, fortunately) is the undesirable
possibility that a "movement" lunatic "hero" would become a "martyr for
the Race" after being introduced to one of my close-quarters weapons
systems (that's Winchester Model 1300 for the simple minded :-). 

--

"Here I stand, I can do nothing other."

-- Dr. Martin Luther


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Sep 11 08:42:49 PDT 1996
Article: 64397 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
Date: 11 Sep 1996 02:17:46 GMT
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"Dave Harman" replies to me:

> Hating the enemies of the race is currently part of love of the race.

Tell me, Davey, who is an "enemy of the Race?"  I dare you.

[re: _The Turner Diaries_]
> And how does the book violate free speech?  There's nothing crazy in it.
                                              ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^ ^^
My, oh my.  Davey's condition is much more serious than I assumed.

Quoting from _the Turner Diaries_:

William Pierce on compassion --

"Not twenty feet away another woman lay motionless, her face covered with 
blood and a gaping wound in the side of her head -- a horrible sight 
which I can still see vividly every time I close my eyes.

"According to the latest estimate released, approximately 700 persons 
were killed in the blast or subsequently died in the wreckage....

"...{T}here is no way we can destroy the System without hurting many 
thousands of innocent people -- no way."  (TTD, Chapter 6)

William Pierce on "justice" --

"Certainly, we must have made some mistakes today -- mistaken identities,
wrong addresses, false accusations -- but once the executions began there
was no admitting to the possibility of mistakes.  We deliberately created
the image of inexorability in the public mind."  (TTD, Chapter 23)

William Pierce on "Racial Solidarity" --

"We fired all our missles at two targets: Israel and the Soviet Union 
[sic]....What we lost, however, is substantial...nearly a fifth of the 
White population of the country -- not to mention an unknown number of 
millions of racial kinsmen in the Soviet Union."  (TTD, Chapter 26)

William Pierce on humanity --

"If the Organization survives this contest, no Jew will -- anywhere.  
We'll go to the uttermost ends of the earth to hunt down the last of 
Satan's spawn."  (TTD, Chapter 27)

William Pierce on Environmentalism --

"Therefore, the Organization resorted to a combination of chemical, 
biological, and radiological means, on an enormous scale, to deal with 
the problem [ostensibly to stop the Chinese from invading Europe -- ed].  
Over a period of four years some 16 million square miles of the earth's 
surface, from the Ural Mountains to the Pacific and from the Arctic Ocean 
to the Indian Ocean, were effectively sterilized.  Thus the Great Eastern 
Waste was created."  (TTD, Epilog)

> ! You might want to ask William Pierce and George Burdi what they think
> ! about your suggestion regarding the first and last items... [take into
> ! account Pierce's doubling of the sale price of TTD, and Burdi's
> ! self-manufactured "White Man's Code of Honor" prohibition against copying
> ! his CDs...]

> Actually, raising the price is a good sign, whatever the market will
> bear, they should of did it instead of merchandising the copyright.
> Part of the idea is to raise money.  And what I meant was the one
> can support the Tuner Diaries and Hunter etc., without supporting the
> authors or orgaizations involved. 

Oh, can you?  Why be a hypocrite about it?  

_The Turner Diaries_ and _Hunter_ represent the genuine and _desired_
program of Dr. No and his organization, although in fictional form.  He
couldn't very well come out in the booklet _What is the National
Alliance?_ and just state clearly, accurately, and explicitly what he
would really like to see happen, now could he? 

Why would would anyone want to support a book, while not supporting the
organization that encompasses all the principles put forth in _the Turner
Diaries_ and _Hunter_? 

As for jacking up the price over 100% overnight, well, what justified such
an increase, other than just pure greed?  Did the copies of TTD Dr. No
had in his warehouse magically become more inherently valuable on Hitler's
birthday (that's when he issued the increase order)?  I seem to recall
that greediness of this sort was considered a "Jewish" trait by many of my
Alliance "comrades." 

> ! As for my _National Socialism Primer_, obviously I no longer advance it as
> ! a legitimate and realistic political tome.  In fact, I have requested

> No, it's not obvious.  

No, not for the illiterate and intellectually challenged...

> In the last few months you rejected NA and skinheads, but that says 
> nothing in the big picture about your world vision.  It'd be great to be 
> able to reject an old crowd and continue the same viewpoints. 

Certainly some of the points made in the _NSP_ I still consider valid. 
The work as a whole I do not.  Especially the revolutionary parts.  As
I've said to a few, while some people in the "movement" talk about
"Blut und Boden," my family has PRACTICED it for centuries.  Since
National Socialism borrows heavily from the old German "Blut und Boden"
concepts, certainly I cannot reject everything within the National
Socialism worldview without rejecting my family and our heritage, which I
will never do.  

As I told Mike Boettcher and the NBC crew, I cannot and will not denounce
"racism," but I can and must denounce the hatred of the "movement."  The
difference between "racism" and hatred is that the former is a natural and
almost universally-held (yet almost universally-denied) sentiment; the
latter is a sentiment based on jealousy, ignorance, and just plain
stupidity. 

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

-- 

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Sep 12 07:33:56 PDT 1996
Article: 64568 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: The more things change...
Date: 11 Sep 1996 22:58:39 GMT
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Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Danny Keren replies to me:

># I don't imagine very many "anti-racists" give a shit what
># happens to me, being blinded by base hatred as they are.

> Message-ID: <1993Dec16.083247.7321@msus1.msus.edu>
> From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU [Kleim]

>> I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler.  I embrace National Socialism.
>> I would do so even if the Holocaust *were* fact, which I
>> honestly believe it is not.  I would do so even if Hitler and
>> his system had killed *60* million Jews.

>

>Why, who could *possibly* dislike someone who writes
>stuff like this? Anyway, Milt, thanks for the quote. It
>will be used extensively when discussing the true nature
>of "Holocaust revisionism". A true classic.

The seasons change, the fields change, moods change...even "Nazis" like 
me, change.  But, it's apparent one thing still has not changed, and 
that's the hateful hearts of some of my former (?) opponents.

Look, Danny, I don't really care what you think of me.  If you want to be
a spiteful and vengeful bird, as your intellectual dishonesty here shows,
well, you be that way. 

Yes, I said the above, and as I've explained, I regret those statements
which were said in anger and resentment.  I have no problem that Nizkor
will offer my writings for public view indefinitely -- in fact, I have a
link to the archive on my webpage.  But, it reveals a sinister vindictive-
ness on your part to present the above quote, said long, long ago, when I
had a very different mindset, as though it represents something I believe
today.  I don't stand by that statement, as I can't.  Your citation of it
in the manner you have reflects more on you than it does on me -- it
illustrates your dishonesty and hateful heart. 

Yes, things change, even the heart of the infamous "Net Nazi" Milton
Kleim.  I can now see beyond the ideologies of my past, and don't draw
lines of "friend" or "foe" according to worldview and heritage.  

But not everything changes... 

Danny Keren remains a man driven by base, negative emotions...hate,
resentment, vanity. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Sep 12 12:39:22 PDT 1996
Article: 64725 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
Date: 12 Sep 1996 16:36:57 GMT
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Jason Smith replies to Jeanne Kowalewski:

>> Keep your butt low and keep speaking from your heart, Milt. I commend you
>> for continuing to stand for what you believe is right.

>	Funny - people weren't commending him before.  

Why should they have been?  They and I were on opposite sides of an
ideological war, a meaningless and foolish ideological war.  I'm just
thankful that I've learned that so many of my "enemies" were really no
enemies at all.  I can actually _converse_ with them -- they're _human_
(gasp!). 

> What I'd like to know, and I'm well aware I seem to have missed alot 
> around here, is why Milton is denouncing the movement with as much 
> vehemency as he promoted it with.  What's with the turnaround?  

You're welcome to visit my website, as everyone is welcome to.  If you 
still have questions, feel free to send 'em my way.

> And in case people haven't noticed - I'm one of the ones who has 
> experienced general disenchantment with the movement, including 
> Milton's megalomania ("I pioneered the right wings' use of the 'Net" - we 
> were both there, remember?) - I bailed long ago, without, however, losing 
> my personal beliefs.  

Hold on now, Jason.  I always gave you credit for being part of "the
trio": Art LeBouthillier (who predates both of us), and the two of us. 
Art left (temporarily) because he lost access and interest in the
conventional "movement," and you just left (real reasons below).  Les
Griswold came on board about the time you left, and quickly overshadowed 
any contributions you made.

The fact of the matter is that you are showing jealousy here.  You know
what, you can have the vain glory if you wish, Jason.  It's all yours now. 

Your "disillusionment" with the "movement" had nothing to do with its
failings, including my real and imagined ego-trips.  You whitewash the
fact that you were hounded into silence by the Canadian authorities.  You
didn't _voluntarily_ leave. 

That's the difference between you and I, Jason.  My departure from the
"movement" had to do with numerous bad experiences, seeing first hand its
dishonesty, depravity, sometimes insanity, and culminating with three
intense personal circumstances.  Yours just had to do with capitulating
when the police came a knockin'. 

> I'm still a hardened zenophobe, but an intelligent and respectful one.  

Canada's "hate crimes" statutes help remind you to be a good boy, too.

> I'm still racist, always was, always will be.  

That's fine.  At least you're being honest with this.  The vast majority 
of racists deny the fact they are.

> I just wanted to know why the turnaround? Why the disenchantment?  Have 
> you learned what I knew when I met you?  

Do you really believe anyone is going to buy this whitewash of your 
character?  If you "knew" this, you certainly didn't show it.  I'm sure 
Mr. Mcvay could illustrate this fact for you.

Yes, I discovered the hard way that the "movement" is not an association
of good people with its handful of loonies, but rather a corrupt
"movement"  of loonies with a handful of misguided idealists. 

> I still have many people whom I consider friends in the 'movement.'

As do I.  But, I've found to my displeasure that so, so many of my
"friends" were no friends at all, now that they stand by ideology instead
of friendship, and skeedaddle away when I come 'round.  Friendship and
loyalty are completely separate from ideology and politics.  Perhaps my
former "friends" are actually afraid that what I speak is the truth, and
by listening to what I have to to say, by corresponding or speaking with
me, they, too, will begin to accept what was so hard for me to accept.
More and more I'm seeing that the National Alliance, as well as the
"movement" itself has strong characteristics of a cult, with the
prerequisite mind-manipulation and coercive techniques. 

Since I actually give a damn about a lot of people still in the 
"movement," it's so sad for me to realize they really _don't_ have a 
choice whether to leave or not.  It's like telling a drug-addict to "just 
quit, why don't you?"  In fact, Harold Covington, who nows goes by the 
pseudonym "Winston Smith," compared racialist ideology/the "movement" to 
an addiction for heroin in a recent message to me.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton./ca/~bb748



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Sep 13 10:54:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65092 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Date: 13 Sep 1996 06:28:47 GMT
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Joel Rosenberg replies to me:

>>Yes, things change, even the heart of the infamous "Net Nazi" Milton
>>Kleim.  I can now see beyond the ideologies of my past, and don't draw
>>lines of "friend" or "foe" according to worldview and heritage.  

> But, Milton, that's just the problem.  Your present writings make it clear 
> that, at base, you've changed very little indeed.

Can you offer any specifics as to what you are referring to?

One thing that must be considered in regards to my writings on my
webpages, are the intended audience.  Some of the material is clearly
directed to "movement" adherents, with some aspects of "movement"
language.  This is unavoidable, due to my purpose in making the statements. 
Everyone's free to read them, obviously, but the "target" has to be
addressed in the appropriate manner and tone.

> One demonstration of that is, paradoxically enough, that you trumpet as great 
> moral changes ones that are largely tactical and cosmetic.  

Such as?  I realize you have every reason to assume I am lying once again
(yes, I lied during my activism -- surprised?), but how much does it take
before I am believable?  I can expound a bit further upon my feelings, but
I have covered most facets, at least vaguely already.  I will not say
something just because there's a popular opinion that it would sound nice. 
If my acceptance as a "normal person" requires I make false statements
about false sentiments, well, I think I'll be an outcast.  

> Yes, you've put some social distance between yourself from the trailer trash 
> nazi types, or at least tried to.  But really, that's about it.  You haven't, 
> by your own admission, abandoned racism and bigotry, just overt naziism.  
> There are some who will call that a vast improvement.  I'm not sure that it 
> makes much of a difference at all.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, and in my opinion, I think you're
blinding yourself with ideology.  What's the point in continuing to hate
(or at least dislike me)?  Do you have ANY friends who hold racist views?
Do you look down upon them for it?  Do you confront them over it?

Any futher bitterness vented my way is not really hurting me.  I guess it
just makes me sad to see that elements of both sides are equally depraved. 
And makes me appreciate more my present position of "neutrality."

> Well, to your credit, at least you're not Schoedel, pretending to be able to 
> take words back.

I made alot of statements I'm certainly not proud of, and while I retract
these statements as not reflecting what I presently believe, I won't deny
I made them.




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Sep 13 10:54:54 PDT 1996
Article: 65096 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Date: 13 Sep 1996 06:32:22 GMT
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Rich Graves replies to me:

>>Yes, things change, even the heart of the infamous "Net Nazi" Milton
>>Kleim.  I can now see beyond the ideologies of my past, and don't draw
>>lines of "friend" or "foe" according to worldview and heritage.  

>>But not everything changes... 

>>Danny Keren remains a man driven by base, negative emotions...hate,
>>resentment, vanity. 

> So if I understand you correctly, only Milton Kleim is ever entitled to
> get "angry." 

Where is THIS coming from?  Danny made a post that appeared (to me) to
contain significant intellecual dishonesty concerning me.  I have
subsequently been convinced it was based on misunderstanding.  I have
withdrawn my statements against Danny, as he has clarified his position on
me. 

> Only Milton Kleim is entitled to the hypocrisy of having non-Aryan
> friends, knowing that they're decent people, and still saying that the
> races should be kept separate. 

What hypocrisy? And what do you know of my friendships/acquaintanceships/
colleagueships with non-White people, other than what I told you, which
was not much? 

They knew my beliefs, and they respected me nonetheless, because they saw
beyond the ideology, and just considered me a nice guy (some people might
be surprised if they ever met me).  

I was a political activist, advocating a program that I sincerely believed
in, and at one time, would have implemented it if given the opportunity
regardless of these friendships, because my loyalty to what I saw as
"right" and "holy" overshadows loyalty to any man.  My non-White
associates were nice people, and I genuinely believed this (or I wouldn't
have conversed or did things with them), but a year ago I would have paid
no heed to it for political reasons. 

One of the reasons, one of many, though, admittedly, that I left the
"movement" is that I could no longer accept that I might one day have to
participate in "neutralizing" people like them.  What I believed was
"right" could no longer include cold disregard for people's lives,
regardless of who they are. 

> Only Milton Kleim is entitled to question people's motives and characters.

You're off on a tangent, Rich.  Calm down, now.

> No, I don't like everything Danny Keren has ever said, and I certainly
> don't like what Milton Kleim says, but neither am I proud of everything
> I've ever said, so I don't decide to hate people like Milton Kleim just
> did. 

What the Hell are you talking about?  Certainly I was angry that Danny
would do what I _thought_ he did, namely try to smear me, and be dishonest
about my present feelings, but as I said, and have stated in another post,
I was wrong.  _Hate_ was not a part of my feelings, though.  If anything,
I felt sorry for him, that he was so wrapped in "anti-Nazism" that he
couldn't untangle himself from it to see the real situation.  I'm glad I
was wrong about this. 

> You want everyone should come over and kiss your ass (you've seen the URL) 
> because you say "I regret misleading people with my propaganda"? 

Ya know, you've got one mighty fucking attitude right now, Rich.  What is
up with you?  Bad day at work?

I have no intention of not advertising my URL everywhere I go.  Why should
I not?  The more people see it, the less likely I'm gonna encounter, "Hey,
Kleim, are you still a Nazi?"  I'd rather not have to deal continuously
with something I'd like to overcome. 

As for kissing anyone's ass, it seems that you, among others, want me to
do that for you, not vice-versa.  To get accepted as a "normal person" by
some people, I'm supposed to curry special favors, and parrot the latest
politically-expedient phrases.  Even if I were to do that, sincerely, I'd
be confronted with "you're lying!"  There really is no way to "win" with
some of my former (?) opponents. 

> You really haven't retracted anything, not specifically. 

What is it I'm supposed to retract?  I don't suppose you want to go
through Ken Mcvay's archive on me and recite every line I've written,
asking me whether I still believe in it?  I have asked several sites to
remove my stuff, and most of them have.  Finally, tonight, Don Black has
removed the NSP from Stormfront. 

WHY are you being such an ass, Rich?  Especially after being fairly decent
in private mail.  At least you're illustrating I should never completely
trust anyone I've never met.

> Milton Kleim is entitled to some time to himself, and he deserves to be
> treated like a human being, but he's not entitled to everyone's respect
> and admiration because they *might* have read a few things. 

I don't expect to be respected by everyone.  I never expected Joel
Rosenberg or Ken Mcvay to be on speaking terms with me, regardless of what
I say, retract, or denounce.  Much to my surprise are all the people who
are former "enemies" who have written me to wish me well.  I'm also
starting to get mail from people besides those who knew me before from
USENET, wishing me well.  Alot of people send goodwill my way.  Some with
hard hearts and hot-heads just can't put their politics aside, though. 

> Milton Kleim is not the center of the universe, and you can't expect
> *everyone* to care what he thinks. 

Nor do I care if everyone does...

> If you want to be left alone, if you want to be where everyone loves you,
> stay home. 

I don't expect to be loved by everyone.  But I do expect to be accorded a
reasonable honesty when my previous comments, most of which I have
withdrawn with blanket retraction, are quoted, giving due respect not to
me personally, but to my present beliefs and stance on racialist politics. 

It's generally called "quoting in context."

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Sep 13 15:59:05 PDT 1996
Article: 65164 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Date: 13 Sep 1996 05:29:49 GMT
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Jamie McCarthy replies to me:

>> >> I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler.  I embrace National Socialism.
>> >> I would do so even if the Holocaust *were* fact, which I
>> >> honestly believe it is not.  I would do so even if Hitler and
>> >> his system had killed *60* million Jews.

>> I don't stand by that statement, as I can't.  Your citation of it
>> in the manner you have reflects more on you than it does on me -- it
>> illustrates your dishonesty and hateful heart.

>Please explain, Mr. Kleim, why you don't stand by that statement
>anymore.  The more you tell us about how and why you have changed
>your views, the more we will understand.

I can't stand by that statement because I do not agree with it.

I made that statement in anger and frustration to illustrate my point: 
that I was not going to acquiesce to demands that I not admire Hitler.  It
did not mean I _wanted_ 60 million dead; it meant the Jewish/"Holocaust"
issue was irrelevant to me.  It was sheer callousness and arrogance to
make such a statement.  Just as Lenin's or Stalin's slaughters mean little
or nothing to fanatical Communists. 

Killing 60 million of ANYONE would serve no purpose whatsoever.  And
killing without legitimate, just purpose is murder.  I do not believe
Hitler killed millions of Jews (no, I do not "believe in" the "Six
Million" -- "believe in" is the key term -- but neither do I say for
certain they did not die, for I do not know.  I shall not be compelled to
"believe in" anything).  But if he had, it certainly would factor in my
determination of whether he -- or any historical figure -- was admirable
or not. 

No man of virtue brutally slaughters helpless, innocent people.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Sep 13 19:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 65235 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
Date: 13 Sep 1996 05:26:51 GMT
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"Dave Harman" replies to me:

> ! Tell me, Davey, who is an "enemy of the Race?"  I dare you.
 
> The anti-racists.  Names?  Edgar Bronfman, Alan Greenberg, Harry 
> Oppenheimer, Rupert Murdoch, Jack Kemp, Ross Perot, Bill Gates, Bill 
> Clinton, the Theriots, the LeFraks, etc., whom, in the course of their
> self-imposed duties, have gone above and beyond in the ongoing genocide 
> of the race. 

Tell me, Davey.  Now that you've identified these "enemies," please tell
me WHY they are enemies?  What have they done to the White Race?  More 
specifically, what actions have they engaged in, or what products have 
they produced, which are not DESIRED by the White Race?

The most ludicrous, and grotesque, concept within the "movement" is this 
"formula":

Eliminate the Jews --> Solve the world's problems

This, of course, ignores the fact that the Aryans themselves VOLUNTARILY 
embrace the television shows, the movies, the fashion, all the things the 
"movement" loons claim is "genocide."  It's a prime illustration of 
refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions.  Blame SOMEONE,
just not our own failings.

Certainly I don't believe these men Davey cites are the epitome of virtue,
or produce products or engage in actions which are completely beneficial
to society.  But _why_ are they in the positions they are?  Did they
install themselves?  Or has the American People _allowed_ them to stay,
and embrace what they say and do, and tell the masses to do?  Even were
William Pierce installed as President tomorrow, and were he implement his
"final solution," the Aryans of North America would not have changed one
bit from their original character.  Nor would "education" or legislation
modify their wants and desires.  THEY are corrupt (perhaps even
biologically deficient), and if it weren't the Jews and other skilled and
aggressive peoples providing them with their indulgent leisures, SOMEONE
else would. 

> The white anti-racists can be reformed by stripping them 
> of assets and a long stint of hard labor, while the People of Color 
> will suffer to the degree of their lack of cooperation with the 
> victorious racists. 

And what exactly will you do with the millions of Aryans who refuse to
cooperate with your government when you tell them they can't watch Monday
Night Football and have their suds in unlimited amounts while plopping
their asses permanently on their sofas? 

> ! > And how does the book violate free speech?  There's nothing crazy in it.
> !                                               ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^ ^^

> Are you in touch with left oriented anti-racists such as presented
> by People's Weekly World and Race Traitor, or, better yet, in person?
> Hell, the mainstream of political thought has it that the race doesn't 
> even exist.  We are dehumanized by the professional anti-racists.  
> Check out the extremes of the anti-racists before dismissing the 
> Turner Diaries as unreasonable, or an abuse of the republic.

We're not talking about anti-racists, Davey.  We're talking about Aryan
racialists, specifically Dr. No.  You know, the people you claim are
BETTER than the average American.

It is completely irrelevant, of course, to try to justify advocacy of
murder and terrorism because "someone else" is, too.

[some of the more extreme passages from _the Turner Diaries_ deleted for
space]

> All mere acts of war justified by the circumstances as presented by the 
> Turner Diaries. 

That sounds similar to what the American and British governments said
after they slaughtered the innocents with nuclear and incendiary weapons
at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, and Hamburg. 

I thought you said you were "different," Davey?

You know it's bullshit, Davey, to say that would be "just war." The last
passage, about the complete obliteration of most life-forms on the Asian
continent, is heinously callous, and completely unjustifiable.  It merely
indicates a grotesque fantasy in the author's head.  Or what about
murdering ALL Jews?  Are ALL of them guilty?  Of what? 

> We are not in a declared war, we are being exterminated by peaceful
> means. 

Wrong.  The White Race is committing suicide.  We are being displaced and
replaced by peoples more spiritually strong than us.

> They taught us in grade school that tactics are never absolute, that
> pragmaticism is the way to succeed.

That the ends justify the means, no matter what the means are?

> ! As for jacking up the price over 100% overnight, well, what justified such
> ! an increase, other than just pure greed?  

> What's wrong with raising funds?  

You don't get the point.  It is _unethical_ according to the supposed
Aryan ethics the "movement" leaders follow.

> ! As I told Mike Boettcher and the NBC crew, I cannot and will not denounce
> ! "racism," but I can and must denounce the hatred of the "movement."  The
> ! difference between "racism" and hatred is that the former is a natural and
> ! almost universally-held (yet almost universally-denied) sentiment; the
> ! latter is a sentiment based on jealousy, ignorance, and just plain
> ! stupidity. 

> Semantics.  

No it's not.  There is a difference of great proportion between racial
preference, and racial hatred.  In order to succeed in the "movement," you
must practice the latter.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Sep 13 20:11:36 PDT 1996
Article: 150383 of control
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Subject: cmsg cancel <51atne$8kh@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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Article cancelled from nr


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Sep 14 01:28:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65291 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: That silly old National Socialism Primer (was Re: Milton Kleim)
Date: 13 Sep 1996 03:37:21 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Rich Graves replies to me:

>> Certainly some of the points made in the _NSP_ I still consider valid. 
>> The work as a whole I do not.  Especially the revolutionary parts.

>You know, Milton, if you want people to take you seriously, and
>certainly if you want IMO reasonable people like Danny Keren to "stop
>hating you," you're going to have to be a lot more specific than this.
>You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As I've said, Rich, more than once, I am not speaking my mind on USENET to
please anyone, or kiss anybody's ass.  I am being completely honest in how
I feel about things.  I'm not going to say something because it is
politically expedient (I've done that enough in the past).  I'm not going
to do "the Hasselbach" or "the Leyden" and say what everyone WANTS me to
say.  That is dishonest, and I shall not do it.  It might be "easier" for
me to lie and distort my feelings, but I do not believe I should do so. 
If anyone doesn't like that I am not saying what they want me to say,
well, they can just go have a hot time tonight with Lucifer. 

It would be nice if everyone could respect that I'm being honest, and get
over their past grudges and hatred of me, but if I must lie and tell
falsehoods about how I feel now for them to do that, well, then I guess
they'll continue to be as they were before. 

>You *do* have the right to withdraw, as you had been doing, and think.

I thought long and hard for several weeks.  I reevaluated my ideas and
beliefs in every way.  To this day, I can't say I have any political
ideology whatsoever.  I have no interest in it any longer.  Certainly, my 
perspective will change in the future, as everyone grows and learns.  But 
I doubt that withdrawing once again will foster any further radical 
changes in my thinking.  In fact, my return to the Net has solidified my 
new outlook, as I have seen yet again, and sometimes more vividly, why I 
left the "movement" in the first place.

>You will not be forgotten, but you will not be bothered, either. Of course
>I would prefer if you retracted the whole NSP and racism, because I think
>that would do a lot of good, but I'm certainly not demanding anything.
>You're just one guy my age. You're not that important.

Before, while I was USENET's chief Nazi propagandist, I was accused over
and over of lying to achieve my goals.  Now, when I'm being completely
honest, everyone tells me I must lie and say what I do not believe in
order to be "accepted."  Well, that's crap. 

It's very easy to say, "I retract and denounce the entire _National
Socialism Primer_.  But I cannot honestly say that.  Can I retract the
bibliography?  Can I retract the basic spiritual-philosophical elements in
it?  Can I retract the social justice program I advocated?  No. 

>> As I've said to a few, while some people in the "movement" talk about
>> "Blut und Boden," my family has PRACTICED it for centuries.  Since
>> National Socialism borrows heavily from the old German "Blut und Boden"
>> concepts, certainly I cannot reject everything within the National
>> Socialism worldview without rejecting my family and our heritage, which
>> I will never do.  

>Family and heritage can mean a lot of things. Sometimes the only
>honorable thing to do is to admit that you were wrong, and make amends.

What you're asking me to do is akin to asking a proud Jew to renounce the 
Bible because it has murder, rape, adultery, and genocide in it.

How often do I have to say I admit I WAS wrong on many things?  I was NOT 
wrong, on EVERY thing, though.

>> As I told Mike Boettcher and the NBC crew, I cannot and will not
>> denounce "racism," but I can and must denounce the hatred of the
>> "movement."  The difference between "racism" and hatred is that the 
>> former is a natural and almost universally-held (yet almost 
>> universally-denied) sentiment; the latter is a sentiment based on
>> jealousy, ignorance, and just plain stupidity. 

>How many angels can dance on that pin?

>Sorry, I don't find anything at all natural about racism. In my
>experience, curiosity is a stronger force than affinity. People grow by
>learning. People learn best from diversity. You spent all that time on
>anthropology and cultural synergy never came up?

I am not making a philosophical justification _for_ racism...or against 
it.  I am merely stating something I perceive as _fact_.  The fact that 
MOST people ARE racist, in differing degrees.

I have never believed the field of Anthropology is something to use for
political purposes.  It is _supposed to be_ a science, a study of humanity
and its ways, and as such, has no business making statements or judgements
for or against any social phenomenon (yes, the vast majority of
anthropologists do not accept this view). 

Certainly cultures exchange knowledge and technology, and that shouldn't
stop because of racial differences.  Cultures and peoples should be
friends with everyone who wishes to be friendly with them.  But the fact
cultural exchanges occur does not invalidate the legitimacy of preference
most people have for "the familiar," that which is like their ways, those
whom are like them. 

>Popper would have a field day with your almost "universally-held (yet
>almost universally-denied)." What the hell?

EVERY people that has existed has had at least a minimal degree of
xenophobia.  Sometimes it takes forms primarily as something other than
what some would call "racism," but there is always a degree of mistrust
and/or dislike based upon visible (inherited) features.  I believe this to
be the case; you do not.  Why argue about it?  As long as one does not
_hate_ people based on their inherited features, what's the difference?
EVERYONE prefers certain things over other things.  If someone likes
redheads, does that mean they _hate_ blonds and brunettes?  Or they are
making a statement of "superiority"?  No, certainly not. 

For everyone who wants to get rid of racism, by whatever definition we 
wish to use, it will not be eliminated (if it can be -- I believe there 
will alwas be some sort of racism; only the races might change) by forcing 
people to abandon it, or ridiculing those who are aware of their 
preferences, and are honest enough to admit them.

>Racism, as an adaptive trait, is obsolete. It has become maladaptive,
>because it restricts your options. That is why society is evolving away
>from racism.

That MAY be true.  It also might not be true.  Only time will tell, but 
again, neither government nor other bodies should coerce people into 
doing what is against their will.  Isn't that fascism?

>What purpose -- other than appeals to "God," which seem out of character
>for you -- do you believe that racism serves?

Again, Rich, I am NOT making a case for, or against, racism.  I am 
stating that I believe racism exists, probably always will exist, and 
admit that I, like MOST people, am racist.  

As for purpose, what purpose does religion serve?  What purpose does
marriage serve?  People believe in them, they comfort them, and give them
a psycho-social anchor.  They both place restrictions on individuals, just
as racism restricts individual choice in friendship (in some cases) and
mating (the primary domain of racial discrimination).  That's just the way
things are, and if they evolve one way or another, fine.  I'm not going to
try to control them any more.  No one else should, either. 

>Please explain to me why you believe I should be racist. I seem to have
>done reasonably well without being racist. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything.  You are one of the few who, for whatever
reason, possess little or no racial preference in social settings
("racism").  I'm not saying you _should be_ racist.  If you don't feel
racist, and don't practice racism, fine.  But don't assume someone is
"evil" or any other way less virtuous if they do have preferences.  You
know forcing people tends to lead them the opposite direction of which way
you want them to go.  All the "anti-racist" propaganda in our society is
_one_ factor which leads many, many into the tentacles of the "movement."

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Sep 14 08:50:37 PDT 1996
Article: 65343 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Date: 13 Sep 1996 05:21:30 GMT
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Danny Keren replies to me:

>[About his article of Dec. 1993, which I quoted]

># But, it's apparent one thing still has not changed, and 
># that's the hateful hearts of some of my former (?) opponents.

>No. If you have truly changed, my opinion on you will change
>too - whether you care about it or not.
 
I'd much rather have you -- and everyone of my "enemies" -- as a Net 
acquaintance, rather than an "enemy."  However, it depends upon how much 
change you're looking for in me.  If denouncing the "movement," and 
renouncing the advocacy of violence and hatred of "racial enemies" will 
lead to this, then I am glad.  However, if you insist I become some sort 
of rabid "anti-racist," well, that won't be happening.

># Yes, I said the above, and as I've explained, I regret those 
># statements which were said in anger and resentment.  

>Well, this is certainly a surprise for me, I have to say; I do
>believe, however, that people can change, more so young people (no
>patronizing intended - this is a statement of fact). If you
>have indeed changed, that's good news in my opinion, and I wish
>you the best of luck in your new life.

Well, I thank you for your wishes.  People can indeed change, especially 
when unexpected events make them look at life in a very different way.  

>I can't tell, from the little you have written, what is the
>extent of this change; which, if any, of your previous
>opinions you still hold; but you have taken, it seems, a
>step in the right direction. And the first step is probably
>the hardest.

Indeed it is.  I hate being wrong, and hate more admitting I'm wrong.  
:-)  But humbled I was, and the admission of guilt and error was 
necessary and unavoidable.

># But, it reveals a sinister vindictiveness on your part to 
># present the above quote, said long, long ago, when I had a very 
># different mindset, as though it represents something I believe
># today.  

>Agreed. It would be interesting, however, to know what made you
>adopt these beliefs in the first place. 
 
Well, since it seems I'm fielding questions from a lot of people, you're 
welcome to send 'em my way, too.  

># Danny Keren remains a man driven by base, negative emotions...hate,
># resentment, vanity.

>Not really, as this article should indicate. 

Indeed.  And I withdraw my previous statements against you.  If you are as
sincere as you sound, I extend my apologies for the "roughness" that I
fostered during our USENET "discussions." You and many others received
alot of undeserved abuse from me, and I retract it.  It was just dumb, but
it seems that most "wars" are that way. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Sep 14 16:27:41 PDT 1996
Article: 65528 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Milton Kleim
Date: 14 Sep 1996 06:55:38 GMT
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John (pka00085@alpha.wvup.wvnet.edu) replies to me:

>>That's the difference between you and I, Jason.  My departure from the
>>"movement" had to do with numerous bad experiences, seeing first hand its
>>dishonesty, depravity, sometimes insanity, and culminating with three
>>intense personal circumstances.

> Milt, you really have to tell us about these bad experiences. It's
> just plain mean to leave us wondering what they were. Sort of like
> watching a tv movie only to have it end with "tune in tomorrow for
> part two"

I don't mean to leave everyone hanging, but I'd rather not get into these
matters in detail again right now.

Some of the aspects of these personal experiences are sensitive in regards
to both emotions, and security.  One of the major factors involves someone
who I cared about -- and still give a damn about, though she probably
couldn't give a shit vice-versa -- and have promised _myself_ not to talk
about in vivid and graphic detail.  It's not what everyone might thing --
some of horrible conflict between us, certainly not -- but something that
manifested itself because of that relationship.  

>>Yes, I discovered the hard way that the "movement" is not an association

> Come on! Please tell us about what led to your leaving the movement!

Right now, all I will say, is what I have said in recent postings to these
groups and/or in the statements archived at the site listed below. 

>>of good people with its handful of loonies, but rather a corrupt
>>"movement"  of loonies with a handful of misguided idealists.

> Publicising your reasons for leaving the "movement" may also help
> others!

I realize this, and it's why I am back here, airing my feelings and
thoughts in a deliberately public manner.  But I've already said much more
than I first intended to anyway. 

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From mjk@efn.org Mon Sep 16 06:11:33 PDT 1996
Article: 66008 of alt.revisionism
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From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Laugh of the Day (was: Re: WHY HITLER WAS WRONG!!!)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 21:32:45 -0700
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One imbecile by the name of Jean Robards wrote:

>    He only killed six million worthless kikes.Not enough. 

I sent Mr. Robards a message of personal advice, inquiring as to what
he thought he was accomplishing with posts such as the above, but 
he was so ungrateful that he sent me this: 

>From loki999@ix.netcom.comSun Sep 15 21:20:46 1996
>Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 19:38:29 -0700
>From: Jean A Robards 
>To: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
>Subject: Re: WHY HITLER WAS WRONG!!! (was Re: Nazism v. Communism (was 
>Re: Milton Kleim) 


>   I am merely stating my views.Which are obiously much too extreme for 
>a faggot ass jew boy like you

Hilarious!  :-)

No, Jeanie, I'm laughing AT you, not with you.


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Sep 22 23:08:29 PDT 1996
Article: 67791 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: William Pierce: Hate for Profit
Date: 22 Sep 1996 19:27:51 GMT
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Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Many "movement" adherents criticized me for alleging William Pierce is 
"in it for the money."

I stand by my opinions, and I offer this for the reader's contemplation.

"Evelyn Hill" is Pierce's assistant.

============================================================================

TAKEN FROM: http://www.webmaker.net/alpha/books/hill.html

=====

Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:04:49 -0400
From: Evelyn Hill 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ALPHAman 
Subject: Turner Diaries
Status:

Hi Ryan-

Thanks for correcting the phone numbers. I am afraid I have another
request: Would you please take the on-line versions of _White Power_
and _The Turner Diaries_ off your site?

We have the copyright to both books and do not want them on-line. We
have a lot of other materials that you can use. Many of these, quite
frankly, present our ideas and ideals better. (Although, they might not
be quite as fun to read.) Check our web site at: http://www.natvan.com

Anything on it is okay to use as long as you give our name, address, and
URL. Let me know when you have done this.

Thanks for cooperating!

Sincerely,
Evelyn Hill
Office Manager

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 04:20:43 -0400
From: Evelyn Hill 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ALPHAman 
Subject: TD and White Power again
Status:

Dear ALPHAman:

I hate to be a pest, but we would *really* like you to remove _The
Turner Diaries_ and _White Power_ from your web site.

Please respond, ASAP so that we will not have to take legal action.

Thank you,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Sep 23 15:41:36 PDT 1996
Article: 466922 of talk.politics.misc
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: FREE copy: the most hateful work in print (Turner Diaries)
Date: 23 Sep 1996 17:59:45 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 27
Sender: bb748@freenet3.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Get your **FREE** copy of the most hateful work written in modern times,
the book many believe inspired the atrocity of the Oklahoma City bombing.

William L. Pierce, Ph.D., the author, thinks you're supposed to PAY for
his hateful book.  Someone has seen to it you don't have to. 

You owe it to yourself to understand how and why the White Nationalist
"movement" can do what it does.  Only by understanding what the White Power
fanatics believe can they be overcome.  I used to be one -- I understand
all too well.

Normally $12, available to you free of charge at:


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1406/


GET IT WHILE YOU CAN!  The Doctor is not too happy he's not profiting
everytime you download a copy.


This poster and the owner of the above URL are in no way connected.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Sep 24 09:17:25 PDT 1996
Article: 68350 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Get your FREE copy today!
Date: 24 Sep 1996 05:50:41 GMT
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Lines: 64
Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <527srh$f8a@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:31001 alt.politics.white-power:44494 alt.revisionism:68350 alt.skinheads:38108


Rich Graves replies to me:

>>You owe it to yourself to understand how and why the White Nationalist
>>"movement" can do what it does.  Only by understanding what the White Power
>>fanatics believe can they be overcome.

> And how is that, exactly? I don't like the word "overcome." "Countered" 
> and "defanged" are more the nonviolent style. 

I understand your point.  My use of the word "overcome" was not intended
to imply methods of direct action.  However, while MOST racists in the
"movement" are fairly benign, and can be merely ridiculed and laughed at
(such as net.imbecile "Dave Harman"), there are a few who might have to be
dealt with in a more "direct" fashion.  Further, active measures (of a
legal and constitutional nature, of course) must be taken to counter the
recruiting tactics of the White Trash Power "movement" to capture young
people into its ranks.  Most importantly, to counter recruiting efforts
effectively, one must be properly and accurately informed of what he or
she is dealing with -- reading ADL publications (which are usually
propaganda with an agenda, not scholarly educational materials) or
attending the latest "diversity" seminar taught by someone blinded by
ideology won't cut it.  The best way to understand the Problem and affect
solutions is to study the publications (such as TTD) and methods which are
used as recruiting tools. 

> As the Turner Diaries themselves show, overreacting to unpopular cranks
> by trying to repress them only serves their ends. 

Correct.  Morris Dees' efforts to censor _The Turner Diaries_ gave Pierce
ever more publicity and a larger market for his wares.  Is Dees really
that dumb?  Don't answer that.

Lyle Stuart, like Pierce, may be in the deal for the sake of money, but
his argument in the Preface is correct: the more normal people who read
_the Turner Diaries_, the better.  I'd say 95% of the literate American
public who read the book are appalled by the callous hatred and heinous
atrocities glorified within its covers.  If everyone knew the Problem, the
solution would be easy. 

> Unless they initiate force, you just gotta accept it as free speech and
> assembly...

Correct.  I'm all for free speech, as long as it remains _speech_. 
Ironically, the best spokesmen AGAINST the White Trash Power "movement"
are the very spokesmen who claim to speak for it -- like "Davey."

> Actually, since it's a bit unwieldy to read books online, this might end
> up being nothing more than a sales pitch. But it's nice that non-racists
> who would not otherwise buy the book can take a quick look to see what the
> fuss is all about. I recommend Chapters 7 and 11. Oh yeah, and it's funny
> that not even Alpha (which was otherwise a very clever sting operation) 
> provides the address where you can buy TTD. 

It could very well be that the distribution of _The Turner Diaries_ online
in many cases becomes a marketing method (though Dr. No doesn't seem to
realize that), but I believe that its easy, free availability online as it
is presently allows many more normal people to take a look as you point
out, and become aware of the Problem.  I'd personally recommend the
Epilog.  Law enforcement people especially should take a look.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Sep 25 07:38:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68614 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 1 Question for Milton, Ken, Andrew, Joel, Les, Rich, George, Ron, and other WPNG Regulars.
Date: 25 Sep 1996 04:01:12 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 13
Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Daniel Swan writes:

> 1.  Is Fascism inherently Racist?

Yes.  The rigid socio-political structure of fascist societies/states
requires focus on a single socio-ethnic group to maintain social cohesion,
and the exploitation of one or more socio-ethnic groups.  There is a
limited number of resources within all domains, and fascist progressive
economic policies to benefit the majority group requires denial of and/or
siphoning off of resources from other groups in order to maintain these
policies. 



From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Sep 28 09:32:20 PDT 1996
Article: 69581 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: ANOTHER "movement" activist resigns!  Colin denounces the "movement"
Date: 28 Sep 1996 03:35:41 GMT
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A TIME TO LEAVE:

A statement by Colin R. Cooper, former Aryan Corps member & operative of ACCI


It started with the NSWPP. They bombarded me with huge messages that I
didn't want. The reply address didn't work, but sent me an error-message,
just to clutter my mail-box even further. This was the last thing I
needed, since the Aryan Corps were having technical problems at the time,
and I needed the space badly. Thanks a bunch, NSWPP. You get my prize star
for being unbelievable twerps - inconsiderate twerps at that.  What the
hell - if I was going to get these annoyances, I may as well read them. 

I got about half-way down some (if they held my attention that long -
which was rare). Frankly I was disappointed at the monotonous vomitting of
the same trash. "We are the *true* National-Socialists" was the message.
"Forget Pierce and his National Alliance." Having no problem with either
Pierce, or the National Alliance (at the time), I thought that this was
all rather petty. What was the NSWPP to gain from slating the Alliance? I
couldn't figure it out. After all, were these people not on the same side?
Were not their common objectives stronger than their differences? Was not
the time now to unite the "movement" and build for a better world for our
people. I was puzzled. 

Then it dawned on me - all that had been said before. When Milton Kleim
said "There is no 'movement'", I didn't quite understand what he meant.
Surely a comment made in anger I presumed. But now it was clear - there is
no movement. A White Aryan movement *DOES NOT EXIST*!!!! Neither the
National Alliance nor the NSWPP is interested in serving the need of
Aryana. What then is the purpose of these organisations, if not for
White-people. The answer was clear. The hero worship or Pierce by his
supporters, and the similar treatment or other self-made "Fuhrers" was
something that served a dangerous psychological exercise. For those who
could not gain acceptance in the "real" world - the movement offered
soothing notions - notions of superiority, elitism and victory. Pierce
would accept you if no-one else would. In return, you would idolise
Pierce, and mock those who didn't. The overwhelming sneering attitude of
members of these organisations to those in other organisations and those
in neither was obvious, having exploded several times on the Stormfront
mailing-list. The Race Issue - oh, that was just a side issue - a cause -
something to motivate people to keep idolising. 

To you in the "movement" - YOU'RE BEING DUPED!!! The Burdi's and the
Pierce's want your allegiance - mentally, physically, emotionally, and
monetarily. In turn, they'll sell you the dream that you can make a
difference - that you are what you may not be. 

The ignorant will read this and cry "Race traitor", and other such
nonsense. The ignorant believe that allegiance to the "movement" and
allegiance to Race are one and the same. They've swallowed the big dupe.
But they won't admit it, even if they had the sense to see the truth. To
face the truth and admit you were conned is to above them - and they
choose instead to lie to themselves - to soothe their insecurities rather
than confront them. 

There is no "movement". But there is a system for damaged folk - whereby
they are among equals. Equal in their ignorance. For the "movement" is not
to serve the Race, but to serve the egos of the many involved in the NA
and the NSWPP. He who says otherwise is a liar. 

The way forward is not to join some local branch of the local loony-bin
club. The movement could serve White People better by terminating itself.
Instead of defiling the nobility of Aryana, and playing the clown before
the eyes of others, it should die. Of course, many of those in the current
movement will fall by the wayside - because the right step for Aryana is
not kissing Pierce's ass. The right step to take is to get yourself
educated, get yourself set up in life. Teach your children well, and
encourage them too to be successful. Control your own life, don't let
Pierce control it for you. (But then again, if you are dumb enough to
allow yourself to be so controlled, perhaps you deserve it.) The current
"movement" does nothing for the progression of our People, except to
identify the easily-duped. As such, it serves only as a sewer - a sewer
which is stinks to all who refuse to dwell in it. This sewer needs a good
hosing. This is my contribution to the clean-up effort. 

There are many who will be dramatically insulted by what I have said.
Tough. Truth hurts. However, there are some, who, like me, hovered around
and about the move- ment for so long. To you I say - get away from it now,
before it poisons you, and takes you over. Control yourselves, and
prosper. 

Many will try to silence this message. Their insecurities will be on full
show for all to see. 

No Prison for Pierce. No Bullet for Burdi.

Colin R. Cooper, (former Lieutenant, Aryan Corps)



Editor's note: Colin may be contacted via this poster. 

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Sep 29 09:09:26 PDT 1996
Article: 69901 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: WhiteWolf departs...the resignation of Ray Horigan
Date: 28 Sep 1996 21:09:34 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Sender: bb748@freenet2.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Note: I am posting this to USENET as a courtesy to Ray, since he no longer
has secure and effective posting ability.  I do not necessarily agree with
any or all of his sentiments here, and I most certainly disagree with some
of them.  They are his views, and he has a right to them.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

A statement by Ray "WhiteWolf" Horigan, former commander of the Aryan Corps

>Greetings,

Some of you will not recognize the name, but when I mention that I am the
man behind the nym "Whitewolf", many of you will recognize me.

I am leaving the "movement" and will not support it again in the future.
This is not a temporary measure, and I will not return to this "movement"
again.  I hope that having read this, you, too, will consider leaving this
"movement", and refrain from supporting it in future.  It's in your own best
interests.  Believe me, I know!!!

During the past several months, I've been rethinking my position in this
"movement", ever since the loss of the rec.music.white-power vote. And
having evaluated the situation, I find myself in a position where I felt
that I could no longer support the "movement" without being a hypocrite.

My first doubts about the validity of the "movement" came when the results
of the vote were in.  Although I didn't say so at the time, I was more upset
at the low "yes" vote than the high "no" vote.  

Considering less than 600 voted "yes",  I found myself thinking why didn't
they vote?  Perhaps they couldn't be bothered.  They certainly knew about
the discussion, since this debate caused the greatest debate in Usenet
history.  

It`s hard to find the words to express my disappointment at the result of
the vote.  It shook my faith in my "comrades" considerably. 

Other events, which I cannot go into in detail here, presented me with an
opportunity to see the "movement" in it's true light - A sinister and
dangerous grouping of lunatics and fanatics!  Not noble Aryans who wish to
see the fulfillment of the 14 Words, but those who would bring disaster upon
our race by their actions.

I used the words "lunatics and fanatics" above, but not all activists are
like this, some are idealistic, intelligent, and progressive activists, who
are just misguided, and manipulated by the "leader"  This leader doesn't
care for his troops,  seeing them as drones, to be ordered about and he
would sacrifice them if need be; they are expendable to him.

Many other issues were taken into account by me during my decision making,
and I've outlined many of these in this list.

General:
--------
>1. No matter how determined we are to better our race, we cannot win the
battle on Usenet.  For each dedicated serious activist, there are a great
number of fools/idiots/
trollers who undermine and destroy any hope we have of presenting "Joe
Public" with the idea that we are not loons and fools.

>2. Far too many, and probably the majority of activists treat the Net and
their involvement in the "movement" as some sort of game/hobby.

>3. Not one person was ever "won-over" to our way of thinking, who did not
come to this "movement" already in support of racialist thought.


The "Movement":
---------------
>1. There is no Movement, only a "movement", he who thinks otherwise is
living a lie.

>2. This "movement" is paralised by paranoia, mistrust and group rivalry.

>3. There is a dark/sinister side to this "movement", that will forever
place its mem-
bers as outcasts from society, and will ensure that the "movement" will
never be accepted by the majority.

>4. The groups within the "movement" are all jealous of each other, and this
also ensures the "movement" will never achieve anything positive on the
'Net, or for that matter in the "real" world.


"Joe Public":
-------------
What does Joe find when he first ventures to this "movement"? Hatred, hatred
and more hatred.  99% of the messages on the Net from "our" side are sure to
put "Joe" off ever getting involved with the "movement".

He watches as "our" side and the "enemy" battle it out.  Not with logic,
evidence and intelligent debate, but with smartassed comments, and comebacks
of same.  Oh, he sometimes sees reasoned, rational debate, but he has to
look hard, in amongst all the garbage that is also posted.

As he watches further, he will come to the conclusion that the "movement" is
made up mostly of immature idiots, whose contribution seems to always be
"Kill Niggers" and other thoughtless remarks posted by people who have no
idea what the rest of us think about it, or  what effect this kind of
negative message would have on "Joe".

"Joe" leaves disappointed, and the "movement" perhaps will have lost a
possible future "Fuhrer" of the true Aryan Movement. 


The National Alliance:
----------------------
I couldn't leave without mentioning this group.  The National Alliance seems
to think that they ARE the "movement", and sneers on those who are not members.

The NA's members' first loyalty is to the group, not their RACE!!,  It looks
with suspicion on anyone who is not NA, and I have seen for myself the
sinister side of the National Alliance, a side they don't present to the
public, or most of it`s membership for that matter, but is there, as anyone
who dares to question anything put forth by Pierce and other NA people will
come to know.

If you are within it's ranks, be sure to obey its every command, do not
think for yourselves, and don't rock the boat.  Or you could find that your
Alliance "comrades" will turn on you, and this is not a pretty experience,
believe me!!

The Alliance`s worship of Dr. Pierce is also sinister,.  It would serve the
NA well to remember that no "leader" is above criticism, and no "leader" is
infallible.  When a group puts it`s "leader" ahead of it`s ideals, it is on
the road to self destruction.   

I would encourage anyone who is involved with the National Alliance to
leave, and everybody else not to join.  The National Alliance does NOT
present a positive plan for the future.  

It is to my shame that I admit that I directed several people into it`s
ranks,  I hope that they will heed this call, and leave this destructive
organization before it destroys them!!

The NA has also sold the rights to the Turner Diaries to a Jew, doubled the
price, and then put pressure on the man who has the Turner Diaries in an
electronic form on his webpage.  I say to hell with that, go and get
yourself an electronic version, for free; why pay some money to a Jew for it
or at the least a man who works with a Jew.

When a man puts profits before people, and works with the "enemy", don`t we
usually call him a "race-traitor"?  Make your own minds up about this.

"WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTANCE OF OUR PROFITS, AND A RICH FUTURE FOR OURSELVES."

Closing thoughts:
------------------
Recently there is much discussion on Usenet about an alleged "death threat"
to a good friend of mine, Milton Kleim.  Althought the source of the message
is anonymous, the intent of the poster is not.  

Now many of you will, and have dismissed this "threat" as nothing important,
something to be forgotten about.  However in this "movement" there are those
who will see this message and will perhaps attempt to act upon it. They
should ask themselves," are they prepared to take a bullet?  Serve all the
rest of their lives in prison?  Destroy their family? Are they willing to be
the pawn in a someone elses game of chess?  Is this the Noble Aryan Way?

One thing that bugs me about this situation is that those who are in a
position to influence others, the so-called leaders, whether self-appointed,
or selected, have been oh so quiet in its condemnation of this threat. Their
lack of condemnation tells me, and should tell you about their lack of
character.  Noble Aryans indeed!!

On a final note, I would like to make it known that I have not lost my
racialist views, and my resignation from the "movement" is in no way a
defeat for me. I will not support a "movement" that I feel, does not have
the White Race`s best interest at heart.

Ray may be contacted at wx285@freenet.victoria.bc.ca.




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Sep 30 07:33:31 PDT 1996
Article: 70086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Response to "Teapot Tempest" by phony "fuhrer" Harry Covington
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:52:32 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 274
Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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Ladies & Gentlemen:

Mr. Harold Covington, aka "Winston Smith," posted this latest screed about
me in response to a letter I sent him.  The "dialogue" began earlier over
Harry's assault on my friend and recently resigned "movement" adherent
Colin Cooper, when I defended Colin against Harry's attack. 

This piece is the direct result of Harry's rage over my calling him a
coward for not using his real name, instead of his completely
unimaginative "Winston Smith."

Perhaps "Winston Smith" is appropriate, since Harry, like Winston, (will)
lose their struggles against that which they have no power over. 

--

>A TEAPOT TEMPEST, BUT NOT WITHOUT FEATURES OF INTEREST
                
>        For those of you who came in late, our story to date: last March a
>young man resigned from the National Alliance. Well, he's 25 years old, but
>I honestly don't think you can call him a man yet---a boy, then. I won't
>mention his name because like his new-found buddy, the strange little
>creature in Stanford, part of the motivation for his behavior seems to be to
>get his name up in lights on the Net, so to speak. Where was I? Oh, yes.

We see here Harry's sneering bitterness against me in his assault on my
character.  What he fails to understand is that he has failed utterly to
insult me.  I do not take offense from people who are morally and
constitutionally challenged. 

Harry may call me a "boy" if he wishes, but it changes nothing.  Yes, I am
young, I am not wise to many things in Life, and have many things to
experience for the first time still.  But my youth is also my advantage,
since I am fortunate enough to had not been set in my ways -- ways of evil
and hatred -- deeply enough to be unable to overcome them, and depart from
the cesspool Harry wallows in willingly.  As they say, you can't teach an
old dog new tricks. 

Harry fails to understand that this "boy" has greater moral authority than
he does, a gap akin to the difference between Death Valley and the
magnificent Mt. Everest.  Harry refuses to acknowledge that God is not on
his side, and he will fail miserably as his predecessors of hate have
before him. 

>        Anyway, this boy resigned from the National Alliance allegedly over
>his disappointment with Dr. Pierce's decision to sell the copyright to THE
>TURNER DIARIES to the Jewish publisher Lyle Stuart. 

Wrong, Harry.  As usual, your facts are, shall we say, "erroneous."

The Lyle Stuart deal came AFTER my resignation and had no bearing on my
resignation from the National Alliance.  It did have a bearing, however,
on my resignation from the "movement" itself, as Pierce's action was a
clear betrayal of the very principles Pierce had allegedly fostered. 

>The boy seemed worth salvaging so I opened an intermittent e-mail
>correspondence with him, one which continued until the morning of 
>Saturday, September 28th.

This "correspondence" centered around attempting to convince me, in
typical Covingtonesque condescension, that his "NSWPP" was "different"
>from  the other kook-clubs in the "movement," and that I should side with
him.  He saw in me another sucker from which to collect money and labor
for attracting other suckers.  In this implication, I take offense.  But I
am nobody's fool. 

>        During those months a couple of things emerged that made me more
>dubious. It seemed the boy was having a difficult time distinguishing
>personal pique from political principle---a not uncommon failing, especially
>in the young, and one which the most disciplined of us have to struggle
>with. 

Pot - kettle - black.  *I* have trouble differentiating personal
sentiments from political principles?  Anyone who reads the garbage coming
over the CovingtoNet sees clearly that you, Harry, are the master of
personal vendetta in the "movement."

>It also developed that one of the primary reasons for his resignation, if
>not the main one, was the failure of a love affair he'd had with a woman on
>the NA staff.

WHERE did this crap come from, Harry?  I have had NO "love affair" with a
National Alliance member.  Again, get your facts straight, before you
mouth off.  Perhaps you should check your sources before you start, but
alas, Harry's hatred of me for calling him what he is, a coward, made him
obsessed with "getting back" at me, and he slapped this smear piece
together with little concern for accuracy. 

To set the record straight, I had a dear friend who is a member of the
skinhead sub-"movement," and we became romantically involved for a short
time in late May and early June.  Through this relationship, I was
confronted with many things I had denied for long, and could no longer
deny due to my emotional vulnerability.  Our breakup was not the "cause"
of my resignation, but was the catalyst that set off the fire waiting to
happen. 

>        I noticed something else odd. The boy's first statements in his
>resignation letter and articles asserted that these would be his last
>comments forever on the subject, and that all he wanted henceforth was to
>be left alone to "find one good woman" and live out his life in some
>rose-covered cottage in the forest someplace---the typical cry of the
>lovelorn swain, and one I shouldn't mock since it has been the source of a
>good deal of poetic inspiration down the centuries. 

My error, my shortcoming, was in departing the "movement" by running away,
pretending that I could forget about all the problems it, and I,
create(d). My conscience compelled me to return to correct the damage I
caused, and help prevent further damage from my work and the work of other
bitter, hateful people such as Harry. 

I explained my reasoning in "Duty," for anyone interested.

>        And yet the boy's exit was becoming remarkably prolonged; he seemed
>to take an awful lot of curtain calls and be reluctant to take his final bow
>out of a Movement he now professed to hate. It got pretty obvious after a
>while, like the Shakespearean ham who gets stabbed on stage, falls down, and
>then keeps popping up with endless speeches before dying. I dropped him a
>line pointing this out, warning him in amusement that the Movement was as
>addictive as heroin and I noticed he was having a hard time kicking. I later
>found that he re-worded this to change its meaning and posted it on a Nizkor
>playgroup.

I have returned not as a "movement" stooge, but as an full-fledged ENEMY
of the "movement," and I have no shame in admitting this.  My work shall
not be done, though I may take absence from it occasionally, until the
"movement" is DESTROYED.  You are correct, Harry, that the "movement" is
an addiction -- IT IS A CULT, and many young people do not have the
strength or support of loved ones my friends and I have.  But my
"addiction" is over, Harry, and now that I've regained control of my mind
after 7 too many years in the "movement," I can see clearly, and realize
there's more to life than playing "revolutionary" and tearing down people
for no sane reason.  My moral obligation is to identify, impede, and
eliminate the Problem.  I and a few other "resignees" are uniquely suited
to do this. 

>        But more specifically, his statements on the Net were were getting
>wilder and less coherent as he lashed out at all of us, even those who
>wished him well. Less and less were they legitimate criticism of specific
>acts on the part of specific people (the kind I always engage in, despite my
>idiot detractors) and more a kind of hysterical tantrum directed against any
>and all White people, of any ideology or affiliation, who dared to resist
>the racial enemy's agenda in any way. 

Harry's gone off the deep end.  Me thinks my pretentiousness, to DARE call
the great "Winston Smith" a coward, which he is, has caused a bout of
temporary insanity in the poor chap. 

Harry fails to acknowledge that in "Duty" I _recommend_ resistance against
injustice (though non-violent) towards European-Americans.  I have not
"joined the other side," as Harry and his fellow boobs have alleged
against me. I am Milton Kleim, and I stand alone, though with allies from
all backgrounds and persuasions.  I do not need the artificial "strength"
of a cult, as Harry and his compatriots do.  Harry and his compatriots
NEED mutual support, for they are terribly weak-willed and lacking in
noble constitution.  They need to "be somebody" amongst a group. 

>They probably are incapable of understanding that non-Jewish people can and
>do engage in activities out of spiritual or personal motives having nothing
>to do with sex...

One of the traits of a "movement" loon, I mean, "leader," is constant
self-aggrandizement of a consistently pompous nature, revelling in the
"nobility" and "goodness" of their "cause."

>        One got the distinct impression that no one was listening to him and
>the boy was starting to get frustrated. When he was with the NA he'd had a
>few of his Fifteen Minutes due to his work on the Internet, and it looked as
>if the boy was extremely reluctant to accept that it was over. He couldn't
>bear to see the limelight fade; he seemed to want some way to make his
>Fifteen Minutes last forever, and that can be a dangerous state of mind.

As the response to my resignation lingered, and I saw cries of "race
traitor" and exhortations to action against me, my perception of the
"movement" continued to evolve toward a more accurate and honest view.  I
saw the depravity, the dishonesty, the decadence, ever more clearly, and
this evolution in perception led me to speak out further. 

You see, Harry, my media attention and notoriety in the "movement" and on
the Net places me in an unique position: I have the power to do more to
quarantine and eradicate the "movement" than all of the former "movement"
activists who are now ADL/SPLC/SWC employees combined.  I am honest in my
assertions against the "movement," and they are genuinely my own, unlike
Leyden's, Cochran's, and so on. I have unique insights they do not and
cannot have.  And my failure to "buckle" to pressure to become PC will
allow me to effectively deal with the "movement" since I am not straining
reality to stay within the guidelines of the ADL/SPLC/SWC's agendas. 

>        The boy has crossed the line between legitimate criticism and
>betrayal of a people. He has become a STUKACH, a racially aware White person
>who knows the truth of race and the Jewish Question (his writings indicate
>that he clearly does), but who actively assists the Jews, because his
>personal disappointment in his dreams and his desires has grown into a
>hatred of his own race so bitter and twisted that he has become lost to all
>human decency and sense of shame or honor.

Harry's intense rage at being fingered for what he is, a coward, and a
fraud, by an upstart like me has led him to froth at the mouth and
construct ludicrous statements so ridiculous as to impeach his mental
stability. 

I actively assist no one, and I owe NO ONE loyalty besides He who is All
Wise.  I work for no one, and I owe loyalty ONLY to God and the truth. 

I hate no race, especially my own, but I shall never hesitate to point out
the failings of my own race, when it is US who harm ourselves with our own
stupidity.  Some would rather shift the blame in cowardice to other
groups, when the blame for the shortcomings of Western Civilization lie
squarely on the shoulders of ideologues and idiots like Harold Covington. 
I am a human being of the White Race and that means I have an unique
heritage with many things to be proud, but it does not necessitate the
hatred of other vibrant, assertive peoples.  Hatred of the innocent and
blind patriotism are the refuge of a scoundrel. 

>        This boy is not important. By his behavior, he has insured that he
>will never be important, as an individual.

Harry has never been important, but in his delusions of grandeur, he
imagines he is a "great Aryan hero," descendent of Alexander, Augustus,
Hermann, William Wallace, Napoleon, and George Washington, and is poised
to take the world into a new epoch. The simple fact is that Harold
Covington, like most "leaders" in the "movement," are nothing, have been
nothing, and will BE nothing until they leave the "movement" and get a
life.  To make up for their lack of accomplishment, they cultivate their
cults of personality, and espouse lunatic visions of messianic triumph. 

>This cancer is called EGO, and it is a trait which has disfigured our
>people since time immemorial. 

At the risk of repeating myself, pot - kettle - black.

>This boy did what he has done because in his feverish and tortured ego,
>nothing was more important than his desires, his disappointments, his
>viewpoint, his personal vindication. 

Those feelings were when I was in the "movement," "fighting" against a
phantom threat, a phony threat of the "ZOG," when the real threat to the
existence of the White Race is the lack of responsibility and the dearth
of high character among our people, personified in the likes of Harry
Covington.  I blamed everyone else for MY problems, while all I had to do
was TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for my own unhappiness, and correct them myself.
The problems of greater society are simply the byproduct of sloth and
apathy on the part of the American majority. 

>                                                -Winston Smith

And we come to the end of this moronic missive, the means to vent the
tortured ego of Harry Covington after being called a coward, which he is,
by a "boy" of 25. 

I'll close by reminding Harry, yet again, that he is a coward, too AFRAID
to sign his material with his own name.  He is a COWARD also in that he
refuses to act like the man he claims I am not, and join the ranks of the
normal people who get their kicks out of the normal pleasures of life. 
His kicks come from acting important, and pretending he's a great man.  Do
notice that, unlike Harry, I sign this piece, as I do all my works, with
my OWN REAL BIRTH NAME.  I'm not a chicken... 

Finally, Harry, here's your spelling lesson for the day.  

Follow the bouncing ball...

.
C - H - I - C - K - E - N

bock, Bock, BOCK!


-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748

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