From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Oct  3 08:36:26 PDT 1996
Article: 71146 of alt.revisionism
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From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: God Help Harold Covington
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:29:22 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
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An open letter to Mr. Covington:

I see that I am still the object of your attention.  Obviously, I have
bruised your ego like few others have.  How dare a "boy" like me challenge
the "great" Harold Covington; why, he even called him a coward! 

Initially, I had profound contempt for you.  After some deliberation with
my conscience, that feeling has evolved into one of great pity and sorrow
for a man who is trapped in his own delusions. 

You see, Harold, I'm troubled by the fact you seem to believe the lunacy
you're spouting off about right now.  I am slowly overcoming the mentality
I used to have, where I was ruled by hate and resentment, governed by the
possibilities of what sinister attacks I could muster today.  My first
reaction to your original post was a reaction which was right from my
past, a reaction wherein I became angry at you, and used difficult truth
against you.  But, I have realized now that's _exactly_ what you wanted
out of me -- you, who are governed by hatred and negative emotion, wanted
me to participate in your debased game. 

Well, I won't participate, because I've had enough of hatred, and
perceiving the world through the confines of ideology, especially a failed
ideology. 

You can continue to froth at the mouth, attempt your insults, feign
attempts at being wise, and demonstrate that you are a bitter man, not
interested in wisdom, not interested in serving any cause beyond himself. 
You, Harold, not I, will lose in this game.  You see, your words have no
meaning, since they have no veracity.  They are the big statements of a
little man who fantasizes about being a glorious leader, and is angry
inside that that fantasy cannot ever be realized. 

I don't really know what happened to you to lead you into this lifestyle
which you now engage in.  I know my own evolution into a pompous ass
during my "movement career," but I'm sure your own history is unique.  The
difference, Harold, is that I have accepted my shortcomings, my error, my
previous contemptible nature, and want something different out of life,
something more noble and respectable than being a pretentious and bitter
self-appointed messiah.  Yes, Harold, I am young, I am naive of many
things, but the difference between you and I is I have not yet lost the
ability to learn, from my mistakes, from others, to become someone anew
after I have journeyed down the wrong path for far too long.  I wish I
could extend you one ultimate gift; what would it be?  I'd extend you the
opportunity to have a panoramic view of your own life, to see where you
went wrong, how you have gotten to where you are, and to see where you are
likely going.  I'd want you to see how utterly ridiculous you look -- as I
looked -- while pretending to be something we are not and never will be. 

I'd want you to have the chance, hoping you had the courage to accept the
lessons you'd learn, to see what a failure your life has been, and to have
an opportunity to actually _be somebody_ of merit, despite decades of
failure and ignoble work. 

I am sorry that I am probably wrong you will ever climb out of your
ideological cage, and recognize what you've been doing wrong all these
years.  I'm sorry that your life will continue to be as it has been: one
of hatred, bitterness, resentment, for reasons unknown, probably for
distant memories rather forgotten.  You _could be_ a good man, as all of
the "movement's" prominent men could be, under happier circumstances and
in more realistic and reasonable mindsets. 

No, Harold, you are not deserving of contempt, since you are quite right
in what you said: the "movement" mentality is as addictive as heroin, and
after years and years of being a junkie, you just can't help yourself. 
Some of us are fortunate -- we kicked our habits, and have the support of
family and friends to stay on track.  Others will never have that
fortunate opportunity, and it is doubtful they could accept it anyway. 

Your fate is not in my hands, and it is becoming more and more certain it
is in your hands neither.  Your Fate is one which Destiny has alotted. 
Your Fate is in the Hands of God. 

God Help You, Harold.

-- Milton John "the Boy" Kleim, Jr.
   
--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748




From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 07:06:11 PDT 1996
Article: 71519 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: McVay, still the same old worthless Gas Jock...
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:21:45 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
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Distribution: inet
Message-ID: 
References: <52f5vs$n5p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <52hs08$ba9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52kba3$km1@btc1.up.net> <52khhs$qhs@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52kuo4$t9f@btc1.up.net>
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Ron Schoedel writes:

> McVay GSA wrote thusly:

Whoa, whoa!  Now it's getting out of hand.  I'm not used to being any sort
of peacemaker, but I have to intercede where I don't want to be.

May I suggest both sides stand down in their base insults and wild
assertions against each other?

I'm not going to get involved in the public debate about legality of the
Nizkor files on Ron and me.  But I see that these threads are starting to
look an aweful lot like what used to occur during a time I'd rather not
repeat. We all had plenty of that, and I'd rather not see Ron and everyone
else get into a senseless name-calling free-for-all. 




From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 07:06:12 PDT 1996
Article: 71520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Ronald Schoedel demonstrates his insincerity, yet again
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:15:31 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 29
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: 
References: <52f5vs$n5p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52h67d$5hm@btc1.up.net>  <52hs08$ba9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52kba3$km1@btc1.up.net> 
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Joel Rosenberg replies to Ron Schoedel:

> >Mr. McVay, you may be right...I was merely doing my part to try to
> >purge the web of some filthy things I ain't proud of.

> Well,you could always improve the world by hanging yourself, I guess.

Joel, do comments of this nature achieve anything positive and
beneficial?

By making such statements, you only demonstrate that some people cannot
(or do not wish to) forgive, and remain hateful and bitter.  You don't
have have to accept Ron's (or mine, for that matter) resignation, but
neither do you have to display such hatred and resentment.  Several
people, Andrew Mathis, Yale Edeiken (if anyone should hate me, it's him),
Annie Alpert, and Jeanne Kowalewski included, have extended me their best
wishes.

Joel, by continuing to make statements such as you do, you merely create
moral liability for your colleagues.  In essence, you are the "Matt Giwer" 
of the "anti-racist" camp. 

You may wish to reconsider the meaning of those principles you claim to
believe in.  You know, tolerance and respect.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748



From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 07:06:13 PDT 1996
Article: 71542 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Response to "Teapot Tempest" by phony "fuhrer" Harry Covington
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 20:50:07 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 16
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References: <52ng60$7dl@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <52s49v$d1p@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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To: Rich Graves 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:32104 alt.politics.white-power:45682 alt.revisionism:71542 alt.skinheads:38764

[Rich's constructive criticism of my post deleted for space]

Rich & friends:

Points well taken.  I was irritated by the CovingtoNet post (but not
really insulted) and wanted to get in some good shots on Harry to have
some fun.  I guess I overreacted a bit, and as Rich implies, I still do
have a ways to go before I completely abandon my old habits.  I'm never
one to give up the chance for a good flaming.  :-) 

BTW, I had planned to post the response piece on my webpage, but decided
against it, since I realized quickly it wasn't suited there.

-- Milton




From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 07:42:57 PDT 1996
Article: 45679 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.alien.visitors,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Bonehead racists
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:05:28 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 26
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Ron Schoedel replies to "Dave Harman":

[Harman obscenity about Rosenberg deleted]

> Nah, I wouldn't wanna deprive his family members of their fun.

This is way out of hand.  And out of line.  Davey has an excuse -- he's an
imbecile -- but you're supposed to know better.  Ron, I don't know what
you think you're accomplishing with material such as this, other than to
demonstrate you really don't want to leave the past in the past.  Joel
Rosenberg was and remains an unsavory character, but this does not mean
you have to devolve to his level, and make such crude statements as above.

If you want to be taken seriously as a "reformed racist," you might want
to disengage from your present campaign against Mcvay and his allies,
stand back, and look at what you're saying here.  It's no different from
what you (and I) were doing a year ago.  The "dirty kike" and such has
been removed, but the bitter feeling is still there.

No one is gaining from this type of "dialogue," especially not you or your
image, Ron.

-- Milton





From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 17:24:53 PDT 1996
Article: 71648 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Ronald Schoedel demonstrates his insincerity, yet again
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:52:26 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 13
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: 
References: <52f5vs$n5p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52h67d$5hm@btc1.up.net>  <52hs08$ba9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52kba3$km1@btc1.up.net>   
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Joel Rosenberg responds:

> >> Well,you could always improve the world by hanging yourself, I guess.

> >Joel, do comments of this nature achieve anything positive and
> >beneficial?

> Oh, absolutely.

If you truly believe this, then you are no better than those you condemn.
And therefore have zero moral authority when it comes to criticizing
others.



From mjk@efn.org Fri Oct  4 17:51:06 PDT 1996
Article: 38762 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!garcia.efn.org!mjk
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.penpals,alt.religion.christian,alt.alien.visitors,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Bonehead racists
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:05:28 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <52701m$pmp@monet.ICSI.Net> <843530500.3193.0@ont1-138.up.net>   <52mhpv$fen@btc1.up.net>
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Ron Schoedel replies to "Dave Harman":

[Harman obscenity about Rosenberg deleted]

> Nah, I wouldn't wanna deprive his family members of their fun.

This is way out of hand.  And out of line.  Davey has an excuse -- he's an
imbecile -- but you're supposed to know better.  Ron, I don't know what
you think you're accomplishing with material such as this, other than to
demonstrate you really don't want to leave the past in the past.  Joel
Rosenberg was and remains an unsavory character, but this does not mean
you have to devolve to his level, and make such crude statements as above.

If you want to be taken seriously as a "reformed racist," you might want
to disengage from your present campaign against Mcvay and his allies,
stand back, and look at what you're saying here.  It's no different from
what you (and I) were doing a year ago.  The "dirty kike" and such has
been removed, but the bitter feeling is still there.

No one is gaining from this type of "dialogue," especially not you or your
image, Ron.

-- Milton





From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Oct 14 08:45:39 PDT 1996
Article: 74033 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bb748
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: For T
Date: 14 Oct 1996 04:26:40 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 65
Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <53sfe0$beo@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
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For T...


Recently personal circumstances have afforded me an unique situation -- with
a level of great happiness and joy which has been so lacking in my life.
Several times in the past have I loved, and twice before have I been loved
in return by a special person.  This very recent and completely unexpected
eventuality, however, causes an inner discourse -- presents me with an inner
dilemma -- for which there is only one resolution.

I love someone special, and this is for her...and me.

My personal circumstances necessitate this, for withholding it loudly
pronounces me hypocritical and dishonorable.

I hereby, in totality, withdraw and denounce my most terrible work, the very
essay which even during my "movement" days visited my heart with chills for
the unrefined coldness and callous hatred it exhibited.

That essay is _The Abandonment of Beauty: the Beacon of Life_, published
both on the Web and in _Resistance_, Spring 1996.

No, my personal circumstances do not involve a lady of Jewish background.
The demented allegations against me that I am "keeping kosher in the
boudoir" by a certain self-serving, self-appointed "fuhrer" are totally
untrue; his false allegations reflect harshly only on his unbalanced
sexuality, not on my affections for women in my life.

I am not making this statement as some sort of preplanned self-promotion in
accord with the previous nature of some "movement" defectors.  I am sincere
in all I say here; my present situation proceeded from sheer chance --
Divine Providence? -- an "accidental" meeting one night on the Net which has
begun to blossom into something wonderful.  That my new friend "happens to
be" outside the acceptable racial criteria of the "movement" is irrelevant
to me.  Actually, it is not irrelevant; it is illustrative of the lunacy,
the insanity which characterizes the "movement."  She is a beautiful young
woman, speaking of both her internal and external dimensions, and the fact
she is victimized by this "movement" for her taint bespeaks the denial of
reality "movement" adherents put forth.  That she is more "Aryan" in her
heart (as we're told an "Aryan" is by the ideologues of the "movement") than
all the leaders of the "movement," and ironically "more Aryan" in
appearance, too, than most "movement" adherents, slaps me hard in the face
with the boldest confrontation of reality -- the facts of what Life is about
-- I have yet encountered concerning the "movement" -- and why I thank God
I'm out and free.

I won't be marrying my friend tomorrow, I won't be having children with her
next year, but right now I have a wonderful friendship with a wonderful
young woman, and I am happy.  Her background I care not, though I shall
proud of it as she is; her intelligence, her wisdom, her considerate
personality, her sweetness, that matters.  Where we go from here I know not
yet, but whatever path Destiny presents I shall not resist journeying down upon.

God Bless my dear friend, and her little boy, with all of Life's happiness.
God help those still in the "movement," those enslaved to their own crude
resentments and bitterness, for they are within an arena of ideology and
groups which God _can never_ Bless.  Hence the perpetual failure of the
"movement" and its inevitable final defeat.

"Here I stand, I can do nothing other."  -- Dr. Martin Luther, German Visionary

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.




From bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Oct 29 10:26:25 PST 1996
Article: 42252 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: bb748@freenet5.carleton.ca (Milton Kleim)
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (497ddeb1d355ea0662d336c287126e96)
From: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Return-Path: news@freenet-news.carleton.ca
Reply-To: bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim)
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 3:18:14 GMT
Message-ID: <846559094$27318@atype.com>
Subject: MAM and infiltrating troublemakers
Lines: 41


Mike Vanderboegh asked me as a personal favor to investigate what was
going on here, and possibly take action.  Unfortunately, I have little
interest in sustained "warfare" with Net renegades of any variety, since I
have much more important things in my life to attend to than deal with the
world's kooks. 

However, I'll offer this:

Last time I checked, MAM was a moderated group with a very clear purpose. 
The garbage being injected _solely_ to disrupt the legitimate and proper
objectives of this group must be dealt with swiftly and totally.  The
simplest way to do this is to refuse to approve such postings.  Any and
all trash posts from White Power fans should be deleted without
consideration. 

Now I know some people will complain this is censorship.  I disagree,
heartily.  MAM is a forum for the discussion of militia issues, not race,
not gun control, not most of the issues (non-issues?) which are being
"discussed" presently.  One does not try to hold a circus in a library
reading room and then sanely scream censorship.

The tactics presently being used on MAM by National Alliance members and
allies were developed from the very tactics I employed and refined to
_disrupt newsgroup discussions, leading to publicity generation_.  Read
that again.  The present infiltration, for those who do not already
recognize it, is to _disrupt_ MAM, not to disseminate views, leading to
media attention. 

When I was doing my pernicious work for the "movement," there was one
thing I hated most: 

A good moderator.

Deal with them...in the most effective way.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

--

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bb748


From mjk@efn.org Wed Oct 30 16:12:44 PST 1996
Article: 42475 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (b551ae85ecd6ddb1e7729a9dffa04e71)
From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." 
Organization: Oregon Public Networking
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 17:04:14 GMT
Message-ID: <846695054$8506@atype.com>
Subject: The Nazional Alliance: the Reality...
Lines: 161


A Nazional Alliance member writes:

>On the contrary, we represent a larger majority of actual militia member
>opinion on subject such as race, immigration, the Constitution as well as
>many others.

Uh, bullshit!  (excuse me :-).

During my time as an activist on the Net, I bumped into lots of militia
people, and VERY few of them show ANY similiarities in philosophy to that
which makes National Alliance adherents unique.  NO WHERE in the militia
movement have I seen ANY indication of National Socialist/Nazi philosophical
teachings, including in Trochmann's Militia of Montana.

>Since I have been working with militia members over the last few years, I
>have found that the leadership of most militias are the ones who have cause
>the hostility here. 

Is that two or three militia members?

Both rank and file and leadership echelons of the militia movement are
predominately non-racist or even anti-racist...and almost always ANTI-Nazi.
Perhaps up to 35-40% have SOME sympathy for the stated goals of the National
Alliance, but once these people understand that the _stated_ goals (wrapped
up in pretty pro-American phraseology) and the _real_ goals of the Alliance
and allies are radically different, this sympathetic element diminishes to
perhaps 2-3%.

>In their attempt to distance themselves from race, they have lost any clear
>philosophical basis for their involvement. 

???

Do you have any idea why the militia/Patriot movement exists?  The
militia/Patriot movement is a collection of individuals and groups who are
afraid for their Nation's well-being in the wake of incidents like Ruby
Ridge and Waco, and they believe they are doing what is allowed them by the
United States Constitution to protect the interests of their families and
their country.  I don't necessarily agree with them, but I do understand
them.

When I was a member of the Alliance, my friends and I made fun of the
militia people because we thought they were much too conservative and PC.
Their interest in constitutional republicanism was completely incompatible
with our interest in National Socialist revolution.

>This is exactly what happens when leaders become politicians and forget the
>meaning of truth and honour. 

What was that about William Pierce?...

>...the quality and dedication of new members is way down. I have seen this
>all before. It happens to all groups when they begin to play the media
>game. You can't out Jew the Jews. 

William Pierce tried to "out Jew the Jews," as you say, when he sold the
"movement's" "bible" to a Jewish publisher.  Quite funny, really, since Dr.
No, uh, Dr. Pierce is now seen by most as a hypocrite, liar, and profiteer.

Pierce is playing the "media game" like few can, and his book sales are
skyrocketing. He jacked up the price of _the Turner Diaries_ 101% (from
$5.95 to $12) on Hitler's Birthday, in order to profit from the publicity of
dead children at Oklahoma City and his "sell-out" to a Jewish publisher.

>The National Alliance is not at all what these criminally dishonest
>so-called patriots have tried to portray. 

Let's see what William Pierce has to say...

"If the Organization [the National Alliance - ed.] survives this contest, no
Jew will -- anywhere.  We'll go to the uttermost ends of the Earth to hunt
down the last of Satan's spawn."    -- William L. Pierce, National Alliance
chairman

>The National Alliance is about self-determination for the people of Europe
>here in America and all over the world. 

"We fired all our missles at two targets: Israel and the Soviet Union
[sic]...what we lost, however, is substantial...nearly a fifth of the White
population of the country -- not to mention an unknown number of millions of
racial kinsmen in the Soviet Union [sic]."   -- William Pierce, in _the
Turner Diaries_

>The NA stand for an end to forced integration; and end to non-European
>immigration and a peaceful resolution which will allow all parties to find
>their own destinies. 

"Not twenty feet away another woman lay motionless, her face covered with
blood and a gaping wound in the side of her head -- a horrible sight which I
can still see vividly everytime I close my eyes.

"According to the latest estimate released, approximately 700 persons were
killed in the blast or subsequently died in the wreckage...

"[T]here is no way we can destroy the System without hurting many thousands
of innocent people -- no way."  -- William Pierce, in _the Turner Diaries_

>Every group needs to govern their own affairs and Whites are no different. Self
>determination and self respect for Whites and a chance to start working
>toward being the best that we can be as a people, is this evil? 

No, but what the National Alliance really stands for...well, THAT is evil.

>It is time for a change, and the National Alliance has is leading this 
>change.

"Certainly, we must have made some mistakes today -- mistaken identities,
wrong addresses, false accusations -- but once the executions began there
was no admitting to the possibilities of mistakes.  We deliberately created
the image in inexorability in the public mind."  -- William L. Pierce, in
_the Turner Diaries_

>If many here would simply drop their hatreds and guilt and think for once
>as a member of the White race, what the National Alliance is working toward
>would be an obvious and much needed organization to join. 

"Therefore, the Organization resorted to a combination of chemical,
biological, and radiological means, on an enormous scale, to deal with the
problem [ostensibly to stop the Chinese from invading Europe -- ed.].  Over
a period of four years some 16 million square miles of the Earth's surface,
>from  the Ural Mountains to the Pacific and from the Arctic Ocean to the
Indian Ocean, were effectively sterilized.  Thus the Great Eastern Waste was
created."  -- William L. Pierce, in _the Turner Diaries_

>But since many refuse to accept the fact that they are White and no matter
>how guilty they feal or no matter how much the work they do against what
>the perceive to be "nazism", other races still see them as Whites and they
>will be treated like Whites whether they like it or not. 

My ancestry is completely White, I accept that, I am proud of it, and yet I
am also now opposed to the "ideals" of the National Alliance.

>Being White means that you are part of a greater family and with that comes
>a group responsibility to ensure the future of our people. 

Being White does not necessitate the destruction or malignment of any other
group.

>I am only a member, I do not speak for the National Alliance, but I can
>tell you that if you listened to a few radio programs at
>http://www.natvan.com/radio/radio.html and simply looked at what we are
>saying, you would see that we stand for what is right and what is natural.

What American Dissident Voices does is disseminate PROPAGANDA, deliberate
falsehoods and distortions.  What ADV discusses on shortwave is NOT, repeat
NOT, what the Alliance _really_ stands for or intends to do.

Pierce's "magnum opus," _the Turner Diaries_, along with his newer work
_Hunter_, are the REAL program of the National Alliance.  Of course, neither
he, nor his associates who are smart enough to know the difference (as I
did), admit that the propaganda piece "What is the National Alliance?" and
such do not tell the truth.  They are "pretty propaganda" complete with
beautiful visions, patriotic slogans, and feigned ideals, designed to appeal
to the gullible, the soul-searcher, and those with low self-esteem.  Once
one reaches a certain intellectual and/or commital point in the Alliance,
one understands this...that violent revolution is the unstated (for obvious
reasons) goal and its teaching the raison d'etre of the National Alliance.

-- Milton John Kleim, Jr.

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