From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!ccs!covici Sun Feb 21 16:37:38 PST 1993 Article: 16812 of alt.activism Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!ccs!covici From: covici@ccs.covici.com (John Covici) Reply-To: covici@ccs.covici.com Newsgroups: alt.activism Subject: EIR Talks to Lyndon LaRouche 02/18/93 Message-ID: <260-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> Date: 21 Feb 93 11:34:8 GMT Organization: Covici Computer Systems Lines: 746 FOR MORE INFORMATION, WRITE EIR NEWS SERVICE P.O. BOX 17390, WASHINGTON, DC 20041. EIR TALKS WITH LYNDON LAROUCHE February 18, 1993 Interviewer: Mel Klenetsky MEL KLENETSKY: Welcome to ``{Executive Intelligence Review} Talks With Lyndon LaRouche.'' I'm Mel Klenetsky. I am on the line with Mr. LaRouche from Rochester, Minnesota. Mr. LaRouche, we have just heard from Bill Clinton in his State of the Union message. He talks about $500 billion in new taxes and spending cuts. He is talking about reducing the debt, he is talking about investment. Does this program do the job? MR. LAROUCHE: No. There are features of it which are possibly workable, or even represent emotions moving in the right direction; but the program overall is guaranteed to be a flop in its present form. - Clinton's State of the Union Message: - - The President Did Not Address the Key Issues - Q: Why so? MR. LAROUCHE: Well, as I have said before: First of all, there is a misdiagnosis of the problem by the Clinton administration. Clinton's speech was in some parts artfully done, admitting that both [political] parties have been responsible for the mess and that this goes way back. But the fact of the matter is, that all the key issues are the ones he didn't address. We are in actually a worldwide depression, in which the United States is collapsing a bit faster than Japan or Western Continental Europe, and has been collapsing for a longer period of time because of policies we adopted during the middle 1960s--that is, policy axioms, policy assumptions; the rock-drug counterculture, the New Age, which, together with the anti-technology, anti-scientific bias which is reflected, of course, today in our school systems. So we no longer have an orientation toward growth and real growth; growth in productivity has always depended and will always depend upon a relatively massive concentration on investment in scientific and technological progress. Secondly, as part of that, changes in educational policy, away from a traditional, pro-scientific educational policy into a social-engineering-of-the-student's-mind policy, has given us a labor force which today is no longer capable of the kind of productivity which is implied in a recovery program, without very special measures and a change in philosophical orientation. And the mechanism of the debt growth and the growth in the fiscal crisis, is a combination of deregulation, free market policies so called, but especially the role of the Federal Reserve system under this arrangement. {As long as they do not touch the Federal Reserve system and its problems, there is no possibility--no matter how stringent or austere the measures--of dealing with the growth of the total national debt, or the growth of the fiscal bite of the debt into the operating budgets.} To make it clear: Let us assume that President Clinton is going to carry out the program of Ross Perot. Ross Perot would assuredly be {as big a failure} on this count as Clinton. Obviously, we would expect that if Bush had been elected, he would have done pretty much the same. So any of the three leading candidates, which the voters voted for, would have done as badly as Clinton is doing right now. The thinking of any of them would have assured us a catastrophe. - $600-$1 Trillion in Credit Needed Per Year - Q: Does the debt stand in opposition to any kind of a real investment policy? MR. LAROUCHE: Absolutely. The basic problem here, in terms of the debt and in terms of debt service, is that you have got to stop buying high-priced debt, which means no more 7-and-a-half to 8 percent thirty-year bonds, for example. That is the crux of the matter there. And you have to increase the tax revenue base without raising the tax rates generally. There are cases where tax rates could be raised without a counterproductive effect, and perhaps should be raised. But in general, the tax rates {should not be raised.} The way to solve the problem is to increase the tax revenue base of households and business income; if we do not expand that income, there is no possibility of a rational solution to this problem. To do that, you have to create credit. The question is, where are you going to create the credit, and how much? You have to create about $1 trillion a year of new credit--somewhere between $600 billion and $1 trillion a year minimum--to get the economy moving, to get to a breakeven point, where the problems of the economy are met, and the problems of balancing the budget are met. If you do not do that, you are not going to solve the problem. If you are going to do that through the Fed mechanism, you are going to blow the system out--at least under present arrangements. Because the Fed creates money out of thin air, not out of taxes, not out of deposits, but out of thin air, at about 3 percent. Then the Federal government borrows that money, at about 4 and a half to 7 and a half percent now. At present, the banks are going {heavily} into government bonds, because their own situation is so desperate. In other words, the Federal government is bailing out the commercial banks and other institutions, by offering this growth in debt through the Federal bond route, through the Federal Reserve mechanism. If you do not change that and go back to direct creation of currency by the Treasury, under bills authorized by the Congress, and do not deposit that money say, at 2 percent on ten years, 2 percent on 20 years, somewhere in there, to selected categories of investment-- [commercial break] - No Recovery Unless We Take on the Federal Reserve - Q: Mr. LaRouche, we have been discussing the difficulties with President Clinton's new economic program. Mr. LaRouche, you were discussing the problems that the Federal Reserve has in terms of generating credit. Can we pick up from that point? MR. LAROUCHE: The point is, that unless you dump the Federal Reserve mechanism of monetary generation, and take those powers away from the Fed, and go back to the Constitution (of which the Fed is actually in violation, so that is not a big innovation), you cannot get this economy out of a depression. The issue here is, that there are commercial and financial interests, such as the commercial banks, which are presently being subsidized by the Federal debt. That is, the banks which are out of position under the new rules, or were close to it, went to the Fed, borrowed money on the discount mechanism, money which the Fed created out of thin air and loaned at about 3 percent. The banks turned around and made a secure investment in U.S. government bonds at between 4 and a half to, say, 7 and a half percent, depending upon the length of maturity. Those bond purchases were then used to bail out the banks' position, and the banks themselves. So what has happened is-- which is what neither Perot nor Clinton nor Bush has mentioned in the campaign or Clinton today--that it is that swindle by these financial interests of the United States taxpayer through the Fed, which is the principal mechanism causing the difficulty we have, in trying to get the economy moving. These interests, which have pressured Clinton into making a very modest recovery program (actually much less than $30 billion in total investment), are the same interests which are looting off the Federal government, the Federal taxpayer. Unless we go to the other mechanism, that is, of creating money at the Treasury, not the Fed, and of loaning it at 2 percent on 10 years to selected categories of borrowers, then what would happen if you tried to cram a monetary aggregate buildup through the Fed for a recovery, is that these financial swindlers--I think they are fairly called swindlers--would simply take most of that money, and plug it in to their speculative financial bubble to try to prop it up. That would blow out the U.S. economy in a hyperinflationary explosion if that were attempted. No President, no Congress, can get a recovery out of this spiralling downward depression we are still in, unless they take on the Fed. We must remember, also, that we are not even looking at, directly, in any of these discussions, the major mechanism of the financial bubble which has threatened to blow out the whole world financial system, and that is called derivatives. That is a whole other subject in itself. We have {trillions of dollars} of unaccounted paper as obligations floating around the system internationally; and when that blows out, the whole financial system will blow out. Any more of that kind of speculation which is now ongoing, and we have reached the point where that becomes uncontrollable. So that is why, perhaps for all the good motivation or whatever that Mr. Clinton has, what he proposed yesterday, just cannot work. Q: So far, it seems, in terms of spending cuts on the Federal budget, one thing which has remained sacrosanct, untouchable, is the Federal debt. You have mentioned this derivative market, the trillions of dollars in terms of debt. Is there any way of getting a stimulus investment program with this kind of debt? And if we have to restructure the debt, then what is the nature of the stimulus program that you recommend? MR. LAROUCHE: I have already recommended it. I had a 10-point program which I announced in the {Washington Times} and various other media during January and so forth of last year. This program had a significant impact on the Democratic Party and others. We hear echoes of this word ``infrastructure'' all over the place, a term which essentially I introduced in this form. Clinton had adopted a small, pale shadow of that. That is what has to be done. To do that, you have to do as I say. You have to generate your credit the constitutional way, and create what used to be called debt-free money. The Federal government no longer goes into debt to create its own currency, which is what the problem is here. It is not a question of how to pay or restructure the debt. The essential thing is that {you have to take the nation off the Fed monetary mechanism and go back to constitutional mechanisms.} If you do not do that, nothing will work. If you do it my way, which is the constitutional way, it {can} work. It is going to take a lot of hardship to get it going because we do not have a labor force which has the education and skills--especially college graduates are not too good for real work these days. But if you do not do it that way, it is not going to work. And that is the problem. It is not a matter of restructuring the debt--forget restructuring the debt, that is not going to work, {unless} you go to this other mechanism. So the restructuring of the debt is not the problem. It's a problem; but it's not {the} problem. {The} problem is to get off the Federal Reserve tit. Q: Some people recommend that the Federal Reserve should be shut down. Is that your recommendation? MR. LAROUCHE: No. I would take the thing over, make it constitutional, and make it a National Bank of deposit. I would peel off certain aspects of it to go away from the Federal Reserve district operation to a constitutional approach, which is to make the principle that of state banking systems, a corresponding bank within states for a National Bank, rather than having the Federal Reserve regions which, in my view, are on principle unconstitutional. - President Clinton's Cutbacks: - - ``The American Public Is Still a Bunch of Suckers'' - Q: Some of the cutback programs: Mr. Clinton has put out polls. ABC, CBS, all of the news, have had polls saying that the American population is willing to accept this sacrifice in such areas as health care, in social security. What will this do in terms of the actual living standards of the population? MR. LAROUCHE: We are going down. This is going to be share the poverty, to a certain degree--not much sharing, but a lot of poverty. This is not going to work. There is no way. But the public is {desperate} now. The public themselves are not willing yet to look at what they consider the really radical solutions; and until the public is willing to look at radical solutions--which means saying that deregulation was insane, free trade is insane, and things like that, unless they are willing to start talking about that and the Fed, then the public is going to, out of pure desperation, listen to any con man who comes along offering a supposed solution with a good pitch, with good motivational language. Anything which does not attack free trade or the Federal Reserve, or deregulation, they are going to tend to accept, because they do not want to attack free trade, the Federal Reserve, or deregulation. Therefore, I am afraid that most of the American public is still a bunch of suckers who are going to fall, in large part at least, for any hokum that comes out from the best con man in sight. And that is the situation that we are in, unfortunately. - Radical Solutions: the Von Schleicher Government and - - U.S. Wartime Programs - Q: You talk about radical solutions. Are there any historical precedents for what you are proposing, in the twentieth century? MR. LAROUCHE: In the twentieth century, there are lots of them. There was one attempted in Germany, and the Anglo-American powers couped the von Schleicher government in Germany, and put Hitler into power to prevent it from being implemented. Then they let a certain form of that solution, which was being implemented under Dregger. They allowed that to continue under Hitler, which was the real cause for the so-called recovery under Hitler. But Hitler had been opposed to that program, totally; but the foreign bankers said, well you can do it, because we will shut it off whenever it goes too far. But there have been frequent moves in that direction. Elements of our own recovery programs at various times during this century, were reversions to it--Take wartime financing, for example. World War I, World War II, the mechanisms for financing were imitations of our original constitutional system--parodies of it at least--of the so-called Hamiltonian or the Monroe or John Quincy Adams or Lincoln sort of mobilization. - The LaRouche Program: Creating Six Million Jobs - Q: What is the size and dimension of your job-creation program compared to what Clinton is talking about? He is talking about 200,000 jobs. MR. LAROUCHE: If you do not have about 6 million jobs--remember, you have about 17.3 percent of our total labor force which is actually unemployed. That is full-time equivalent unemployment. They are listing about 7.1 percent unemployment, so the difference is about 10 percent of the labor force is somehow lost even in the accounted figures of the Labor Department. And there is actually a larger unemployment factor than even the official figures of 7.3. So we have plenty of people who are unemployed. To get enough tax revenue base increase from households and business to balance the budget without raising tax rates on businesses and middle- to lower-income households, you have to have about 6 million more people employed. That is going to mean that you have to stick in a stimulant in the form of credit, of somewhere between $600 billion and about $1 trillion minimum to get the wheels turning to get that kind of employment. Q: Some people say this will be inflationary. Is it inflationary? MR. LAROUCHE: Not if you do it properly, if you invest in basic economic infrastructure, the right stuff. If you concentrate on using sectors which are collapsing now, say, auto and aerospace, and find out the other products that they can create right away, because of their technological capabilities, to supply or help supply some of these infrastructure projects such as rail systems with equipment, then you are going to end up with the right result. Of course, if you throw it around on make-work projects and so forth--which are not economic--then you could have an inflationary result, not because of the mechanism you are using, but because you are applying it to things which are not the most productive. - ``We Have to Cut Our Dependency on Imports'' - Q: There is a resolution being introduced into the North Dakota State Legislature which calls for a moratorium on farm foreclosures in the farm sector. Is that the kind of direction that you would recommend? MR. LAROUCHE: I would include that. Absolutely. Although most people do not realize it, we are net importers of food from foreign countries. If we are going to try to even balance our national balance-of-payments situation, we are going to have to cut out our dependency on imports, by providing protection of various kinds for domestic producers who are either of competitive or potentially competitive quality. For example, that is why I would support a piece of legislation which has come out of committee from [Senators] Bennett Johnston [D-LA] and [Bob] Krueger [D-TX], which would establish a trigger price tariff on petroleum, setting a price on petroleum, and if petroleum is priced to come in the country at a lower price, we will just put a tax on it to make up the difference, to protect the U.S. native producers. Those kinds of protective measures, which are not unfriendly and not really trade war against anybody--that has to be done, and stopping farm foreclosures in order to save the irreparable damage of losing this capacity, is one of the measures that has to be taken, not only for the farmer, but for the eater, for the consumer. - The Situation in Russia and Worldwide: - - Heading Toward an April Crisis - Q: Let's move on for a second, and just start to touch on it before our next break. In terms of the global situation, there was recently a referendum that was postponed in Russia. Are we dealing with a dual-power situation? The referendum asked whether Russia should have presidential or parliamentary rule. MR. LAROUCHE: Well, in a sense. Not really that. They call it dual power, and they call it that over there because of the history of the Russian Revolutions of 1917, where the term dual power was used especially during the spring, summer, and fall of 1917. Therefore Russian Bolshevik history causes Russians today to use the term dual power. What there is, is an instability based on recognition-- [commercial break] Q: We have been discussing the current situation in Russia, especially given the referendum, which was recently postponed, which was to decide whether they were going to have parliamentary or presidential rule. My question originally was: Does this indicate a dual power or multipower situation? Mr. LaRouche, you were beginning to develop the current political situation within the former Soviet Union. MR. LAROUCHE: The problem is, that the imposition of IMF (International Monetary Fund) conditionalities on Eastern Europe, including the former Soviet Union, Russia in particular, has caused a situation which is vastly worse than anything since the postwar period the Russians and others have experienced under communism. So people in Russia are generally perceiving that the kind of capitalism which is being pushed by the IMF and by Jeffrey Sachs from Harvard, is worse--far worse--than communism. At the same time, the policy of the current group in power in Russia, is to propitiate Western powers, especially the United States, and to do nothing at this time, at least--at this immediate moment--to upset that Yalta-like understanding which was established first between Reagan-Bush and Gorbachov, and then renewed in a different form through London with Yeltsin. Therefore, the Russians are pretending to be cooperative and are, in some sense, actually cooperative on this dual-power arrangement, which is actually between East and West, a Yalta-like agreement, but at the same time recognizing that they can no longer continue this process. There is a situation of desperation arising internally as a result of the continued deterioration of the economic, and therefore also the political and social situation. So we have a situation not of dual power--that is misleading in a sense--but of instability: acute and worsening instability. The situation is coming toward a crisis estimated for the month of April, which will be a worldwide global crisis, because of many crises coming to a head simultaneously about that time. And that is the situation. Q: You had the recent re-founding of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in Moscow. Does this indicate that we will soon see the former communists of the former Soviet Union re-emerge in power? MR. LAROUCHE: Maybe not as communists. That may be a gadfly arrangement. But what you will see, is the Russian {nomenklatura,} which will consist of old historic interests, elements of the Red Army military tradition, elements of the Russian Orthodox Church and others forming a kind of establishment, a new, post-communist or post-Bolshevik Russian establishment. You will see something which is much more independent, much less prone to take orders from London and Washington. Whether it is going to be a communist dictatorship, I doubt that. It could happen, but I doubt it very much. It is going to be something new, not something rewarmed, or old. Q: Recent discussions, in terms of the Balkans, involve both the former Soviet Union--Russia--and the United States. Is this current discussion process, with Bartholomew working with Kozyrev, a continuation of the Yalta agreements, and what does it mean for the Balkans and Europe? MR. LAROUCHE: It is not really a very interesting subject, because it is all obvious. First of all, Mr. [Cyrus] Vance, who recently announced that he is going to retire from this function, and Mr. [David] Owen, were lying their heads off. Everything they said in support of this UN Geneva negotiation: they were lying. They were lying diplomatically, which is not considered the same thing as a lie in politics. But from the standpoint of the average citizen, they were just lying their heads off. This is not going to solve anything. What is being done in former Yugoslavia, is that from the beginning, from 1989-1990, the British and U.S. governments not only supported but helped to direct the aggression of the Serbian fascist formation around Milosevic, the present president of Serbia, to commit genocidal crimes, first against Croatians and then against the Bosnians, and they are now ready to go against Kosova and ready to go in Macedonia or, as it is called, Makedonija. The United States is fully supporting that, as is the British government. There {is} an understanding with Moscow on this matter. Moscow is making itself more vocal, but that is a part of Moscow making itself more vocal on many things, including, as we may note, Iraq. So there is a kind of continued Yalta agreement. The thing that put me in prison--this renewed Yalta agreement between Washington and Moscow (Gorbachov in that case), is still running the world, pretty much. That is running to a large degree the Balkans situation, but the whole thing is unstable. This bloodshed, this horror show, is going to blow up again. - ``There Is Only One Reason for My Incarceration'' - Q: Speaking of your incarceration, you have now been in prison for more than four years. More than one thousand legal experts from around the country have described your case as a political incarceration. What are the main political reasons for your incarceration? MR. LAROUCHE: There is only one real reason for my incarceration. If you go back to 1986 and you look particularly at the featured articles in the leading Soviet press on the subject of me, from July 1986 through October. This press echoed what was being said to the United States and others from behind the scenes through diplomatic and other channels. Moscow demanded of the United States government, that the United States government demonstrate a commitment to my elimination--and they used the word imprisonment--as a condition for the summit negotiations, which were then tentatively scheduled for October. They didn't specify October, but the summit negotiations which were referenced were to occur in October. Under the pressure of these pressures from Moscow, an agreement was reached between the Gorbachov government and the Reagan-Bush administration. And the British were brought into it, the British establishment as well, because we talked to them, and they told me about their involvement in this. And the ADL, which is partly a Soviet KGB asset, was also involved in that--the Anti-Defamation League. But that was on the ground, not on the higher level. As a result of that, a raid was conducted against the headquarters of publishing organizations associated with me in Leesburg, Va., and elsewhere--a demonstrative raid, which was to signal to Moscow a commitment on the part of the Reagan-Bush administration to put me in prison and show the Russians they meant business on this thing, which assured the success of the Reykjavik Summit. I was kept in partly because Bush had a personal hatred against me. There were other factors involved in this. But the essential reason, the difference between my being in prison and being harassed on the street, so to speak, was essentially this agreement between Moscow and Washington, with London consulting. And that is the way it has stood up to the present time. - My Back-Channel Negotiations With the Soviets - Q: You had been involved with the Reagan administration in certain types of East-West affairs. Can you please describe that involvement? MR. LAROUCHE: Very simply. In late 1981, representatives of the weekly intelligence news magazine {Executive Intelligence Review,} with which I am associated, were approached at the United Nations by a very high-level Soviet intelligence official. Certain questions and suggestions were made by this official to this representative of the {Executive Intelligence Review.} This was reported to me promptly at that time, and I asked the individual who had been contacted to write a memorandum of the exchange, and I forwarded an accompanying covering memorandum to relevant places in the U.S. government, giving my opinion on this matter. As a result, about a month later, the decision of the U.S. government communicated to me, was to ask me, under the National Security Act provisions, to undertake, on behalf of the Reagan administration, a back-channel discussion with Soviet high-level channels--to open up a new back-channel with Moscow. The agreement was, with my discussion of the clarification of this with the U.S. government, that what we would do, is that we would as a trial float, with full discussion with Moscow, what I was proposing, which later became known as the SDI. And that I would select, by probing, which channel in the U.S. we would use, for this back-channel exchange, which eventually was taken over by the National Security Council, to Moscow's top leadership. I picked a man in Washington who was approved, and we began discussions in February. As some will recall, there was a three-day conference in Washington in the middle of February [1982] where I publicly surfaced the same material that I was discussing with the gentleman from Moscow. So we fully explored all the features of my proposal for what became known as the SDI with Moscow. In about the beginning of February 1983, I had a clarification from Moscow, from Yuri Andropov, or his immediate circles. Yuri Andropov was then the General Secretary of the Soviet Union. The clarification was that they agreed with me that what was called the SDI the way I designed it would work as a ballistic missile defense system. They agreed that the technological spin-offs of this for the economy would be highly beneficial; but they said that they would not agree to this policy under any circumstances, because the United States and the West would have an advantage in this kind of program. Therefore, they were very interested in the other things we were talking about, they wanted to continue the back channel, but they assured me that their decision at that point not only was that Moscow would not accept it, but Moscow had a fix in with the top leadership of the Democratic Party to make sure it would not be adopted in the United States. Then [President] Reagan announced on March 23, in the concluding portion segment of his televised speech that night, the exact terms which I had previously indicated to the Moscow channel, saying that if the President were to offer this package, how would you react. The President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, on March 23 offered to Moscow publicly, by way of national television, exactly the proposal which I had presented to Moscow as the tentative trial-balloon proposal earlier. At that point, from the highest level, my back channel said, ``We are shutting down the back channel. From the highest level, we are cutting you off.'' And immediately, I was attacked by the Soviets, first not by name, that is, not in print, but in May of 1983, [Fyodor] Burlatsky, who is a KGB man, a top adviser to Andropov in {Literaturnaya Gazeta,} which is a KGB publication, denounced the operation. Meanwhile, all kinds of KGB operations against me were set into place around the world. In the fall of 1983, the Soviet government officially, through Burlatsky, identified {me} as a {casus belli,} saying that the existence of my personality and my position of influence in the U.S. government, would be a potential cause for a general thermonuclear war between the two superpowers. And that continued more or less; it quieted down under Chernenko, but when Gorbachov came in, the heat on me increased, and this led to the heavy demand on the U.S. government by Moscow, to the effect that there would be no agreement. The reason for this heat was, that I had warned them in 1982 and 1983, that if they did not enter into such an agreement to revive their economy and reorient this strategic situation, that their continued commitment to try to achieve a first-strike war-winning capability, would result in the collapse of the Soviet economy within about five years, that is, about 1988. They knew that. They hated me for it, and saw me as being the evil genius who understood them and their problems and their economy all too well. And that is the way it is. Since then, I have had a lot of trouble, first, being thrown into jail, and then being kept there by Bush as a result of that New Yalta type of agreement between Gorbachov and the Reagan-Bush administrations. - The SDI Would Have Meant a Technological Revolution - Q: In terms of policy, why did the advocates of the New Yalta arrangements view the SDI proposal as a threat to what they were trying to do? MR. LAROUCHE: First of all, because it meant a technological revolution. My doing this, was exactly--the Russians had it almost right. I was trying to find a way to peace and avoiding a very increasingly likelihood, from the middle 1970s on, of a first-strike thermonuclear strike by one of the powers which would mean a horrible situation on this planet naturally. We were getting into that, the so-called nuclear deterrence policy of Kissinger and company; this sort of thing had just blown up; it was no longer working, it was more dangerous than it was protection. But the Russians knew that I understood that the biggest problem they have with their population, is a cultural problem, where the Russian peasant mentality, as they call it, refused to accept technology on the plant floor or in agriculture, and only in a certain segment of the Soviet economy, the military-industrial center, were new technologies more or less efficiently employed and deployed. But in the civilian sector and in the agricultural sector, technological improvement was not assimilable. And I understood this superiority of Western civilization over Soviet culture. And I was playing it for all it was worth, saying, okay, if you guys will accept this arrangement, get us out of this first strike, help us both get out of the first-strike situation, and then enter into economic cooperation along these lines, we will have a peaceful situation which will be beneficial to all of us. That was my general approach. They knew that. They were not willing to accept peace on that basis at that time. As a matter of fact, the papers the U.S. obtained, as well as the Germans, during the unification of East and West Germany, indicated that up until 1989, {the Soviets were still preparing for a first-strike assault within the foreseeable future upon the West.} They understood that I understood this; their top man Nikolai Ogarkov, the General Marshal who was the author of the Ogarkov Plan of assault, understood that; and I was considered the opposite number in strategic thinking to Ogarkov, and they wanted me out of the way. Q: So once the Soviets had spent themselves in terms of military buildup and failed, they were forced to accept the current IMF (International Monetary Fund) policies. Does this new situation that we are in, pose a strategic threat? MR. LAROUCHE: Yes, it does. What Bush did and what the British and others did, beginning 1989 or 1990 with the fall of the [Berlin] Wall, was the worst possible thing. It was the thing I warned against in 1988 in the rather widely celebrated Berlin address I made on this subject about the imminent collapse of the Wall, the imminent reunification of Germany with Berlin as the prospective capital and the problems inside the Soviet economy. What they did, was they said: Okay, the Russians are weak, they have to accept our diktat to some degree. We are going to destroy Eastern Europe and its economy. We are going to destroy the former Soviet economy by these kinds of pressures. What they should have done--which they thought was being too generous--was to cooperate in developing Eastern Europe, especially Poland, which they wrecked. The United States and Britain have {wrecked} Poland, almost to an irrecoverable level. They have wrecked eastern Germany by putting pressure on Germany to do so; and they tried to wreck the former Soviet Union. What this did--instead of following the development policy which I had proposed, the so-called ``food for peace'' policy--was to put the Russians into an {adversarial} mood against the United States in particular. And what is building up now there in the so-called return of the hard-liners, is that a bunch of people are saying, ``Okay. The United States and Britain are going to collapse''--and they are right. They are going to collapse at the present time. They say, ``We have to wait. And we are going to be a superpower again.'' That is the strategic threat. [commercial break] - Gay Edgar Hoover Exposed - Q: Mr. LaRouche, a recent biography of the former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover indicated that he was involved with organized crime elements such as Meyer Lansky, the criminal lawyer Roy Cohn, and he was involved in blackmailing [U.S.] Presidents and all types of different dirty-tricks activities. He had a homosexual proclivity, he was compromised. How does this compare with the investigative work that you and your associates have done, in terms of the FBI? MR. LAROUCHE: We became rather experts on the subject of Hoover's FBI. Not because we wished to become that deeply involved, but because we were forced to. In 1969, the FBI, ostensibly at the instigation of McGeorge Bundy, ran dirty tricks, particularly out of the New York office of Division Five of the FBI against us on behalf of Mark Rudd and that sort of persons, who were being funded at that time by McGeorge Bundy's Ford Foundation. People didn't know that it was the Ford Foundation money that gave you the Weathermen terrorists, but that was the fact of the matter. They escalated; but they generally escalated in conjunction with the Communist Party against us. It was very interesting to us at the time: Why was the FBI working {with} the Communist Party as a political ally? What is this all about? Then in 1971, 1972, this escalated. Hoover died, of course, in the meantime; but the operations which Hoover had set into motion against us, particularly through his New York office, went to the point that in November of 1973, according to FBI paperwork which they have largely issued substantially redacted but the elements are there, the FBI used its assets in the leadership of the Communist Party USA to deploy the Communist Party to have me assassinated. The word they use in their document is ``elimination.'' It caused the Communist Party to perceive that my elimination would solve the problems of the Communist Party. There {was} a deployment by the Communist Party from terrorists from Puerto Rico who were Cuban-linked, who came up in December of 1973 and again, patrolling the area where I was living. So obviously they were all assigned. I blew this, but thereafter the FBI escalated. Then later, the {New York Times} and the ADL collaborated with the famous attorney who was a great buddy--an intimate buddy, shall we say, of J. Edgar Hoover--Roy Cohn, who was deployed against us, and who hired a gutter type by the name of Dennis King, who he used as a cover for running an attack on us. We caught the {New York Times} plotting to set me up for prosecution by running defamatory, misleading stories. We got them on tape, Montgomery and Blum; so the {Times} because we had [evidence of] malice aforethought on them. They farmed it out to Roy Cohn. We investigated Roy Cohn, and in the process of other investigations of the FBI, in massive FOIA discovery, but in particular in the Cohn investigation, we came across essentially nearly everything that is now reported in the [Anthony] Summers book--and more. Q: This is quite an extraordinary story. Obviously the implications for the United States of America, if this is true that the FBI and the former director of the FBI were involved with organized crime elements, are unbelievable. We will return next week with ``{Executive Intelligence Review'}s Talks With Lyndon LaRouche.'' Thank you very much, Mr. LaRouche. - 30 - THE PRECEDING TRANSCRIPT WAS PROVIDED TO FEDERAL NEWS SERVICE BY EIR NEWS SERVICE, INC. FOR MORE INFORMATION, WRITE EIR NEWS SERVICE, P.O. BOX 17390, WASHINGTON, DC 20041. EIR TALKS WITH LYNDON LAROUCHE IS BROADCAST SATURDAYS FROM 7:00 PM TO 8:00 PM EST VIA SATELLITE: Galaxy 2, 74 Degrees W Trans 3, 74.9 mHz NB, SCPC 3:1 Companding, Flat OR Satcom C-1, 137 Degrees W Trans 2, 7.5 mHz Wide Band Video Subcarrier ---- John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com
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