From oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ccs!covici Sat Apr 24 20:02:13 PDT 1993 Article: 20006 of alt.activism Path: oneb!cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ccs!covici From: covici@ccs.covici.com (John Covici) Reply-To: covici@ccs.covici.com Newsgroups: alt.activism Subject: EIR Talks to Lyndon LaRouche 04/21/93 Message-ID: <294-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> Date: 24 Apr 93 19:47:3 GMT Organization: Covici Computer Systems Lines: 768 - ATTENTION FREE LAROUCHE ATTENTION FREE LAROUCHE - The wider LaRouche's presence, the greater the pressure to get him free. Put LaRouche on radio, with a new interview each week. The transcript below is from a weekly hour-long interview formatted with news breaks and commercials. To get LaRouche on radio, calls from people within stations' listening area can be most effective. Program director and general managers are usually the ones to make decisions about programming. Get interested contacts with businesses or products to advertise on the stations during the EIR Talks With LaRouche hour. This provides greater incentive for the stations to carry the program. Any radio station on the planet can air the weekly interviews with LaRouche. The EIR Press Staff can provide weekly tapes for broadcast. Or stations can pull the program down from satellite, using the coordinates below. The interviews are broadcast Saturdays on satellite from 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM Eastern. For More Information: Frank Bell, Press Staff. Galaxy 2, 74 Degrees W Trans 3 74.9 mHz NB, SCPC 3:1 Companding, Flat or Satcom C-1, 137 Degrees W Trans 2 7.5 mHz Wide Band Video Subcarrier EIR TALKS WITH LYNDON LaROUCHE Interviewer: Mel Klenetsky April 21, 1993 ``{EIR} Talks With Lyndon LaRouche'' April 21, 1993 Interviewer: Mel Klenetsky MEL KLENETSKY: Welcome to {EIR'}s ``Talks With Lyndon LaRouche.'' We are on the line with Mr. LaRouche from Rochester, Minnesota. The Imprisonment of Rev. Bevel and Tony Chaitkin: ``The Confederacy is the Issue'' Before we begin to discuss the recent unfortunate incident in Waco, Texas, I would like to bring up the Pike Statue. Recently, Rev. James Luther Bevel, who was your running mate for vice president in the last presidential elections, was imprisoned for protesting against the statue. What is the significance of the Pike Statue, and what is the significance of the recent arrest of James Luther Bevel in this connection? MR. LAROUCHE: The Confederacy is the issue. People will think the Confederacy was defeated by the hammer of that great military genius General Sherman pounding the Confederate military forces against the anvil of his commander, General Grant; but in point of fact, the Confederacy was {not} an insurgency by rebellious majorities of states, but was a conspiracy directed from London--as a matter of fact directed in that period by Lord Palmerston, the same fellow who authored the China Opium Wars, and the same fellow who authored the invasion of Mexico during the same period, by British, French, and Spanish forces. This conspiracy was orchestrated over a period of decades, to split the United States into several parts so that the United States might be subjugated by Britain. That was the purpose. The people who did it, were from all over the United States. They were not Southerners, particularly. For example, Pike himself came from the Boston, Massachusetts area. This was a group of people {using} an apparatus which they built up around the slavery institutions in a number of states of the United States, to capture the control of the states, and to effect a secession whose purpose was to destroy the United States. After, unfortunately, the assassination of Lincoln {by these people}--including the circles with which Pike was associated--the United States was gradually subverted and taken over {by the defeated forces behind the Confederacy,} strangely enough. Exemplary of that, is the case of Pike, who was one of the chief plotters against the United States, under people like August Belmont of New York, who was one of the chief traitors to the United States in that operation. Pike was not only a Confederate general, but was head of the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite Freemasonry from about 1859, a couple of years before the secession, until his death. Not only was he the head of the Confederate Masonry, but he was allied with international forces such as the Giuseppe Mazzini of radicalism, the Mazzini who created Karl Marx, for example, in Europe. The significance today, is that those who have taken over the United States as an influential force, have corrupted us; they gave us, for example, a {Confederate-minded} Woodrow Wilson backed by a {Confederate-minded} Teddy Roosevelt; they gave us the Federal Reserve System, and brought us into World War I, for example, among many things. Also, Woodrow Wilson, by the way, was a co-sponsor of the second founding of the Ku Klux Klan in 1915, {together with} the Anti-Defamation League, which had just been created as a branch of the B'nai B'rith a couple of years before then. They created the Ku Klux Klan. That {Confederate-minded crowd} centered in the Wall Street financial markets, has taken over and subverted the United States, that is, destroyed constitutional arrangements, constitutional institutions, and has brought us to the kind of mess we are in today. Therefore, we must recognize such obscenities as the fact that, in Washington, we have the statue of a traitor, General Pike, a witting traitor, an accomplice of the British in a war which was intended to destroy our nation, and perpetuate the enslavement of at least part of our people, a Pike who was the bloody, racist, (and also satanic by his own words)--treasonous founder of the original Ku Klux Klan and in spirit, the spiritual author of the second founding of the Klan in 1915. We have this man's statue sitting in Washington, and you say, ``Remove it. Remove the rubbish,'' and you have people in the Congress and elsewhere who say, ``No, no. Pike is a hero''; {every defender of Pike is implicitly in the spirit of treason}--that is, they represent the same issues, the same policies as those who organized the Confederacy back in the 1850s for secession in 1861. Why the Confederate Mentality is a Fascist Mentality Q: Many in the South--and I'm calling you here from Virginia--feel that the Confederacy was some sort of a romantic notion of honor and chivalry, and a day when the true values of ``culture'' were kept high on the banner, and that you had Carpetbaggers coming in, who were out to destroy those values. How do we begin to get these people to understand what really was at stake, in terms of the Civil War? MR. LAROUCHE: I think some of them will {never} get to understand that. They are fascists, in a sense, a fascist mentality, in the Mussolini and Hitler sense. That is, Mussolini based his fascism on a romantic appeal of exactly that type, that is, a mythological history of Italy, and of Europe. Hitler based his Nazi Party on a similar--different but {similar}--mythological history of Europe. That was the root of Hitler's determination to exterminate Christianity as he tried to exterminate Judaism, or at least ship this out of Europe. You have the same mentality, which I can recognize very clearly in these kinds of poor fellows you are referring to. It is a myth. In point of fact, many of the Confederate slave-owning planters were culturally little higher than the pigs that roamed in and out of their kitchens. The Confederacy was a degeneration of the American people. It took from the Civil War period until the 1940s, before the Southern states of the United States which had been in the hard-core of the Confederacy, began to rise above the level of illiteracy, ignorance, degeneracy, and so forth, which had been the characteristic of the slavery-dominated regions of the United States. Also to recognize, for those who are not completely hard-core fascists (as most admirers of the Confederacy are in fact, whether they know it or not), is Hollywood. Remember the first feature film, which is produced by the Ku Klux Klan's supporters in 1915, the feature film ``The Birth of a Nation,'' originally called ``The Clansman,'' was sponsored by a Confederate-minded President, Woodrow Wilson; was produced to the enrichment of Louis B. Mayer and Sam Goldwyn, who formed Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer; and Paramount, Warner, and so forth and all these leading Hollywood companies, were all part of this link between the old Confederacy, the Ku Klux Klan, and organized crime. Films such as ``The Clansman,'' or ``The Birth of a Nation,'' and such echoes of that as that completely disgusting ``Gone With the Wind,'' have {brainwashed,} through Hollywood alone, the American public into a myth of a ``gentle, aristocratic'' South. This is completely fraudulent. There is no basis in fact. This was a disgusting corner of the United States. As for the Carpetbaggers, they were sent by the same circles of August Belmont in New York, the American British-controlled traitor (by his own words)--who had {backed} the Confederacy and slavery in the first place--sent the same Carpetbaggers to loot the former Confederate region. The reason the carpetbagging occurred, is because Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, who was {friendly} to the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite and became a member of it, actually allowed this carpetbagging to occur, and put an end to the economic reconstruction which Lincoln had ordered, and, had not the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, together with British intelligence, assassinated Lincoln, true reconstruction and economic development would have occurred in the Southern region; instead, we had carpetbagging sent by the same people who had organized the Confederacy. Q: Basically, Lincoln's idea was to rebuild the South and bring in a different kind of outlook and worldview? MR. LAROUCHE: It was very clear. Lincoln made speeches, he made preparations for all of these actions. It is a matter of record. If somebody looks at the record of Lincoln's public speeches up till the time he was shot, and looks at what Johnson did in the opposite direction after Lincoln was shot, one sees {exactly} how this occurred. Q: Is there any way to understand current history, the history of the twentieth century, without understanding the British adversarial role toward the United States in the nineteenth century? MR. LAROUCHE: Absolutely not at all. The quarrel between Britain and the United States, especially from 1763, 1766, when the British Crown and people around the British East India Company and Barings Bank, moved to crush the colonies; from that time on, through Lincoln, and beyond, the entire history of the United States, is a history of, first, American {resistance} to British looting, and secondly, the British effort, with the aid of traitors within the United States, through, largely, Freemasonry--their Freemasonry--to subvert and destroy the United States. [commercial break] The Bloody Holocaust in Waco, Texas: ``The Clinton Administration Was Set Up'' Q: This is ``{EIR} Talks With Lyndon LaRouche. If you would like to send questions in to Mr. LaRouche, he can be reached at ``{EIR} Talks With LaRouche,'' P.O. Box 17390, Washington, D.C., 20041-0390. Mr. LaRouche, we have a recent situation in Waco, Texas, which has startled the American population. It appears that the Branch Davidian members inside the compound in Waco, Texas set themselves on fire, and went down to a fiery death. What could have been done in that situation, what exactly was happening? The American population certainly did not understand what was going on, and perhaps the Clinton administration did not understand what was going on. MR. LAROUCHE: Well, that is true. The Clinton administration itself was set up and had no understanding of what was going on. The most credible person in this whole fiasco is, of course, the Attorney General, Janet Reno, who has said that she believed, and was misled, and took responsibility for allowing the President to be implicitly misled. She was misled by the experts. Only the FBI and the Cult Awareness Network have actually claimed that it was the Branch Davidian members who set fire to the compound, as it is called. There is no evidence of that. There are simply the unsupported assertions of these people, who contradict themselves all over the place. There is an article that appeared in the Houston {Chronicle} just a couple of days before this event, which is extremely significant in the sense that it shows what an honest group of journalists--not necessarily every last word, but well-informed and serious journalists--thought about the event, in contrast to those sections of the U.S. news media, such as CNN and so forth, which were being brainwashed, effectively, by a criminal association called the Cult Awareness Network. What is behind the Houston {Chronicle} article, is the following set of facts. Number one, that David Koresh wanted to go to trial. Why? Because he was certain, and his lawyers were certain, as the lawyers stated, they would win the trial. Why? Because they did not start the shooting. An out-of-control ATF assault [team] started the shooting on the first day; the government knew this, of course, and knew the whole dirty story. The dirty story is, that the Cult Awareness Network, a criminal association--that is, an association which engages in kidnappings and does lying and similar kinds of other unlawful activities, according to court record--using a convicted felon, this Rick Ross, who appeared on television often, as an affiant, and other persons associated with Rick Ross, planted a story into a {corrupted} Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Agency, which had been corrupted since 1986. But a corrupted agency planted a false story by aid of their accomplices in Australia, so that a corrupted or misinformed, misled, ATF intelligence, actually bought a story concocted entirely by--at least on the surface--the Cult Awareness Network and its felon affiants. They accepted this story to the point of organizing an operation which was totally unnecessary, an assault operation against this center, when local law enforcement had advised them beforehand, that the story they had gotten was all crap. They knew the people, knew the situation, and said if you want to serve a warrant over there, give it to the sheriff's department, and David Koresh will come in in response to the warrant, as he always has, whenever these things come up. But at the point at which they had four dead bodies of Federal agents, even though the FBI came in to clean up the mess created by ATF's bungling, the fact of the four dead bodies and other factors, and the continuing influence of not only the Cult Awareness Network through its backers, the American Family Foundation, but also of the Anti-Defamation League, which has corrupted {many} law enforcement agencies in the country, the factions tied to the ADL, including the Quantico section of the FBI, moved to a cover-up. The Houston {Chronicle} article infers--it does not state it, but it infers it, and the inference is based on statements that were not published--that this faction of the government {did not want} David Koresh ever to reach a courtroom for trial, because if he did, there would be an inquiry into the original warrant: Who had sworn to what, and why did the ATF swallow that bunch of hokum, to set this bloodbath into motion? The best ``solution,'' from the standpoint of the ADL and CAN, and those in the FBI and elsehwere, such as the Quantico unit, which had been penetrated and corrupted by the ADL, and that is a matter of fact, from their standpoint, was that they all be dead. Therefore, at some point, a totally unnecessary operation is launched about 51 days after this whole thing began--and suddenly, they are all dead. Now, who did what to whom at that point? What story is going around, is {irrelevant.} The point is, that Koresh and his people wanted to live. They believed they had to get to court. They of course believed that they had to follow what they thought was the inspired message of God and believed that God would protect them, which explains their behavior, and however you want to criticize their theology, that is another matter. But you have to go by what they were, what they believed, and what they did. On the other hand, those who tried to con the President of the United States and the Attorney General, wanted all of these people dead; they never wanted the thing to go to court. ``The Dirty Role of ADL and CAN Can't Be Swept Under the Rug'' Imagine: it goes to court, and the truth comes out. As Herb Brin, for example, has stated in an article published in a Jewish publication in Texas. The ADL is all over this thing, and we have evidence of that, as the San Francisco case, for example, on the ADL corruption of law enforcement {nationally,} indicates: that the ADL and CAN cooked this whole thing up, planted false information on a government department which they had partly corrupted or influenced in a corrupt way, to cause this thing to occur, and that those who are allied with the ADL and CAN in this operation, fearing that the case would be drawn into court and their whole dirty role would come out, which would mean the end of CAN {and} the ADL if this thing ever came out in court, were very happy to find that they are all dead--or virtually all dead--and they will put the eight survivors out of the way in some way, just bury the thing under the rug, and the case will never come to court--they hope, and thus the dirty role of the ADL and CAN in setting up this holocaust, can be kept under the rug. I don't think that will happen. There is an international outcry on this, there are people in the Senate, there are people all over the place, there are people in Texas, who are very angry about this: I think there {will} be an exposure of this thing. Q: You mentioned Quantico. What is the Quantico section of the FBI, and what does it do? MR. LAROUCHE: Quantico, naturally, is considered largely a Marine base, but it is also an FBI training center, and it is the base of the Hostage Response Team, the so-called ``special forces'' types of units of the FBI. We have determined--and we have the official paperwork, that the ADL has been part of the training, monitoring, and intelligence unit for those FBI units based in Quantico. It was FBI-Quantico which was key in setting up this last phase of the operation, which led to the bloody holocaust. Q: Part of what this hostage negotiating team was doing, it seemed, to the American public, was psychological warfare, making Koresh and his followers go even more crazy., What is the rationale behind this? What are they trying to do? MR. LAROUCHE: I would not want to speculate. That is a long story, and I would not want to speculate. But we have enough, with what we have got, and people have asked me about this, and I have advised them, I tell them, ``Look, don't try to surmise or speculate on what {might be} the explanation for various events. Forget it. We have the truth. Let's not contaminate the truth with speculation.'' The truth is, that we know how the Australian operation was run. We know what the CAN part of this operation was in chief. We know that the ATF was corrupted. We have indications which are crucial as to the nature of the corruption. We have from law enforcement people on the ground in the state of Texas, what they knew about the situation. Our people have followed Priscilla Coates and Rick Ross and the rest of these guys in Texas and what they were doing there. We know the rap sheet, the criminal record of Rick Ross, the key affiant, in these operations. We have traced in Australia, on the ground, in detail, how the Australian side of this operation was set up to bring about this holocaust. We know the role of the ADL. We have been able to follow in detail the way in which the national news media--the broadcast media and much of the national print media, but especially the broadcast media--have been putting out the CAN garbage invented by CAN and the ADL. We know, from our work on the ground, and some of the legal problems here; we {know} the strong motive that the Quantico and other sections of the FBI and other elements had for {not} allowing this case to come to court, {not} allowing that original warrant {ever} to be investigated, not allowing the original assault on the compound {ever} to be investigated under the eyes of due process. [commercial break] Will the Clinton Administration Clean the ADL Out of Government? Q: Mr. LaRouche, we have been discussing Waco, Texas. It is very interesting. At the very beginning of the Kennedy administration, the Bay of Pigs was handed over to him. I think that one of the positive things that came out of the Bay of Pigs fiasco, was that President Kennedy fired Henry Kissinger and fired Allen Dulles. What do you think the President should do in this situation? MR. LAROUCHE: Absolutely. I think Janet Reno was misled. Look at what we know about this, as I was just saying. We also know something very important, going back years, on paper. We know that the Anti-Defamation League, using, in part, in collaboration with the Cult Awareness Network--which is a throwaway front of undesirables, essentially, who do kidnapping for hire and who have been indicted repeatedly on this matter--that this network has penetrated law enforcement for many years, to corrupt effects, for its own advantage. We have the San Francisco case, for example, which exposes a national pattern of {corrupt penetration} of police departments and other law enforcement agencies, to bring about unlawful actions by members of law enforcement agencies. We have {proof} of the continuing, longstanding corrupt relationship between the Anti-Defamation League and the Justice Department in general, as well as the Federal Bureau of Investigation in particular--and of many other law enforcement agencies in the country. So we know exactly what was going on. When Janet Reno speaks of ``experts,'' she is speaking of the ADL, CAN, etc., etc., this crowd--this nest. The only way this could have been avoided, is if the Clinton administration had recognized that this corrupt relationship, the corruption of law enforcement by groups like the Anti-Defamation League and CAN--the ADL is politically a very {powerful} group, because of its backing--is the root of the problem, and that they had to clean that out of there. To take on the ADL and what it represents: That is a big political problem for the Clinton administration. They are already in a quarrel with them. These ADL characters and their friends are complaining that the wrong Jews have been employed by the Clinton administration; I guess they are mostly not Russian Jews, or something. So that is the problem. What this does, is to put the gun right to the Presidency, and says, ``All right, Mr. Clinton, if you do {not} do as Kennedy did to clean out the mess from your government, you are in trouble. The mess in your government in this case, Mr. Clinton, is the ADL and its friends. Are you prepared, as, obviously, Janet Reno did {not} wish to do, to recognize the ADL as an {adversary} of the interests of the United States government, and to take action accordingly, or not?'' And if he is, then he will come out of this thing a little battered, but survive, and will be a much better President for it--and Janet Reno will be greatly strengthened, if that occurs. If they duck the ADL business, if they try to make peace with the ADL, then this administration will be severely crippled. ADL's National Spying Network Under Investigation in San Francisco Q: Mr. LaRouche, you mentioned earlier that the ADL was behind the founding of the second Ku Klux Klan in 1915.You have indicated that they support the Pike statue. Most people think of the ADL as some kind of a civic institution against this kind of racism, against the KKK, and yet, you also mentioned the San Francisco case, where some startling revelations came out. But perhaps the American public does not know about these. Can you please give us a sense of those revelations that came out of the San Francisco raid of the ADL offices? MR. LAROUCHE: For some reason, it started in San Francisco. They had what is now on paper, the affidavits of law enforcement of the investigation show to be going back more than 25 years, that a network of agents run by a fellow called Irwin Suall out of the so-called Fact-Finding Division of the Anti-Defamation League in New York, and also out of the office, more recently, of a woman named Mira Lansky Boland, operating in Washington, D.C., have penetrated massively law enforcement; and they have hired agents to penetrate law enforcement agencies, and to corrupt them, ostensibly for four purposes: To influence law enforcement agencies' actions unlawfully; secondly, to cause law-enforcement agents to do things which are illegal; thirdly, to gain access to computers and so forth, to get information which it is unlawful for the ADL to have; and fourthly, apparently that is the charge, is {to sell} privileged information (which it is unlawful for the ADL to possess) to the Republic of South Africa security forces, and so on and so forth. For example, this fellow (Hani) who was killed down in South Africa apparently was one of the names on that particular list. This was not just San Francisco; more massively, it was Los Angeles, which is, of course, the Hollywood center of the ADL's operation; the Chicago law enforcement--the Chicago Police Department is massively penetrated--as well as Houston, Atlanta, and so forth and so on. That is clear; there are times when the FBI was operating on the basis of a hard-wired relationship to ADL officers, the corruption there that I referred to, and that is only part of it. We have court records showing how {massively} this has been going on--all kinds of unlawful actions. What has happened, is that, purely on the basis of enforcing the law, the ADL and its agents and accomplices have been found breaking the law massively in a very serious way {nationally} in the tradition of Jonathan Pollard, who delivered secrets, effectively, to the Soviet Union--military secrets, which resulted, ostensibly, in the death of a number of U.S. agents in Russia, who were betrayed by this stuff. In the tradition of Jonathan Pollard, the ADL has been stealing information which it is illegal for it to acquire or to possess, and then delivering this information to foreign governments and so forth and so on. So that is the general nature of the thing, and the San Francisco police action, to investigate the dirty operations in its own bailiwick, have led to the exposure, at least in a preliminary way, of this network which we have known, of course, to exist for some time. Q: And it's 12,000 individual citizens, and 950 organizations that have been spied upon by this private organization. MR. LAROUCHE: It is 12,000 {particular cases} that they referred to; there are probably double that number of individual names, organizations, entities, households, and whatnot. [commercial break] The Russian SDI Offer: Headline Should Read: ``Russia Accepts Finally, 10 Years Later, President Reagan's March 23, 1983 Offer'' Q: Mr. LaRouche, very recently, in the beginning of April, an {Izvestia} piece appeared which indicated that Russia was about to make an offer to Bill Clinton at the Vancouver Summit to jointly develop an SDI approach. We have not heard much about this in the news, and I was wondering if there was {any} indication that the Clinton administration is considering this very interesting offer. MR. LAROUCHE: Oh yes, there are many evidences of it. We followed up into Moscow itself. We have been working together with a network internationally of top military-intelligence strategic specialists who were formerly, in the earlier days, back as far as 1982-83, in the middle of the SDI business, assessing the Soviets. We have also had, at the beginning of this week, in Rome and in Washington, D.C., from Russian officials, very specific information on this; and we have, of course, the assessment, which we have pulled together, together with our many top military and intelligence opposite numbers in many nations with whom we discussed this. The picture is this. I will just indicate, that in Rome early this week, there was a Western European Union meeting, which was addressed by a Professor Leonid Fituni of Russia's Global Strategy Center, who then, in his address, and also at a press conference, in answer to questions right after his address, indicated that yes, Russian President Boris Yeltsin had taken up this offer in broad terms with President Clinton personally, at the recent summit in Vancouver; that the thing was under discussion. There was also an address by an official of the Russian government who was visiting Washington, and at a press conference he had more to say about this. So there is much confirmation of this. Now what we do know, are two things. First of all, the opposition. You should remember, that one of the key opponents of the SDI inside the Reagan administration, the guy who tried to kill it the night before the speech, was James Baker III, the Bush man within the Reagan administration at that time. Baker then became Secretary of State and took the SDIO office under the State Department's effective control, in dealing with these kinds of things. Also, people such as those who are behind the GPALs, so called, the Global Protection Against Accidental Launch, this crowd has a vested monetary interest in avoiding anything of this type. So you have tremendous resistance from certain parts of the institutions in the West, to acknowledging this business. You have a mythology being spread by some of these people, saying this was an April Fool's joke, and so forth, which is a lot of nonsense. But they said it, nonetheless. And therefore, the international major daily media, with a few exceptions, has put the lid on this story, one of the biggest stories of the century. Imagine if the headline should be: ``Russia Accepts Finally, 10 Years Later, President Reagan's March 23, 1983 Offer''--which is what they have done. As to the technical feasibility: this is actually brilliant. Let me indicate how. We wrote about this back in 1983. There was a book published called {Beam Defense,} in which this plasmoid technology which is offered was discussed; in 1985, in a special report called {Global Showdown} of July 1985, there was a reference to my assessment that a phased array radar installation, so called, in Russia was actually a weapon, that it was a phased microwave weapon to create plasma-type weapons, and other comments to the same effect, that this was the basic Soviet capability, their leading capability. [See {Global Showdown,} pp. 227-234 and Appendix, ``Mastering EMP for Offense and Defense,'' pp. 338-339.] What has happened, is that the Russians have been working on some very high-powered optical lasers over years. What they have done, is to combine the two technologies to develop an ionized plasma--we are talking about billions or tens of billions of volts per centimeter in space; that is a very powerful thing for any projectile to run into. But not only putting it in space, but {being able to steer it} by aid of channelling a pathway and directing it with the aid of a powerful optical laser. That is essentially what is depicted in the April 2 {Izvestia} front-page article with the accompanying picture which depicts this kind of arrangement. We have checked into this since then, and, to make short of it, all of us who are experts in the area, agree: This is a very sophisticated weapon, one we should cooperate to deal with, if we wish to deal with problems like, for example, the so-called GPALs problem of the accidental launch by some nation which starts throwing its SCUDs around. Q: What are the strategic implications of this kind of cooperation? MR. LAROUCHE: Well, there is a military capability, of course, and we would be {idiots} if we were not to acquire and not to share it if the Russians are offering. We would be absolute lunatics. One has to remember that the idea of rocket intercept by the so-called GPALs technology is economically lunacy, from the strategic standpoint. It will cost more to knock a SCUD out of the sky, by anti-missile techniques of this type, than it will be to build and launch a SCUD. So therefore, the {defense} has a massive economic disadvantage relative to the offense. [commercial break] To Avoid a New Cold War, U.S. and Russia Must Cooperate in Scientific and Technological Progress Q: Mr. LaRouche, can the SDI offer that was made by Boris Yeltsin, change the axiomatics of foreign policy vis-a-vis the United States? MR. LAROUCHE: As I was saying, militarily, this weapon is one we need, and you cannot get by with this GPALs nonsense as we saw with the failure of the attempt of the anti-missile missiles to take out the SCUDs in the Gulf war, so called. That does not work; and the Jericho missile by the Israelis is another piece of junk which is no good either. This is the kind of technology that will do it, or one of the kinds of technologies that will do it; it also has two other strategic implications, apart from the obvious military ones, which would be sufficient grounds in themselves for accepting the offer. We have a problem in Russia, as a result of the lunacy of Mrs. Thatcher and George Bush at the end of 1989 and early 1990, who warned of the ``geopolitical threat'' of Germany, of Germany's unification, because they feared that Germany would link up with an economic revival of the liberated regions of the former Warsaw Pact to the East, which would be an end to the domination of the world by this British Empire idea in its modern form. They were so concerned with that, that they decided to {destroy} eastern Europe and Russia by things like shock therapy, Jeffrey Sachs, by IMF conditionalities, and by looting of the type that George Soros is conducting in that part of the world. What this has done, is that we are now down to 30 percent of 1989 levels of production in the eastern European and former non-Soviet eastern Europe; we are down similarly, not quite as much, but similarly, in the former Soviet Union. This has produced a {rage} against the West, inside Russia and elsewhere, which is unbelievable. That is, these people who suddenly in 1990 were euphoric, they were going to make friends with the West, the Cold War was over, they were going to cooperate, they put trust in the West--now, they hate the West, because they feel they have been betrayed by an evil West. We are headed very rapidly towards the potential dumping of what Yeltsin has represented; and if we are unlucky, the emergence of not a communist but a Russian hard-line government in Moscow. That is the danger; and we are back then to a new kind of Cold War, with local wars spreading all over the planet and all other kinds of disasters. If we wish to avoid that, we have to think of what the alternative is, what changes have to be made. We have to, of course, dump the IMF conditionalities. We have to take Jeffrey Sachs back to Harvard, and put him in a cage or something. This guy is a menace, a lunatic, a strategic menace to the world. We have to offer cooperation of the type that we tried to {prevent} with our anti-Germany campaign of 1990. We have to clean up the Balkan mess, which Britain and the United States, {with Gorbachov,} unleashed, in order to screw up continental Europe. But we have to put a factor of science and technology into cooperation between the United States and Moscow, which will change the psychological, political, social situation away from this rage, which is leading to very dangerous results, and lead into some stable basis for renewed good faith and cooperation; and this cooperation, around this one high technology offer from Moscow, {could be the key that unlocks that door.} And if we do not unlock that door, {we are some kind of idiots,} and should be blamed for whatever folly betakes us as a result of our rejecting that offer. Q: In 1989, when the Wall came down, you offered up an approach called the European Triangle for economic development as a means of unifying East and West. Can the SDI be incorporated into this approach, and would it resolve the crisis that we are now seeing? MR. LAROUCHE: Oh, it was. Remember that when I designed what became known as the SDI back in the periods into 1982, when I was cooperating with the Reagan administration on this, we always had a notion--at least those of us who were pushing this package--of an absolute interrelationship between the SDI as a mode of strategic detente and economic cooperation, and {general global economic recovery.} And in our discussions with Moscow, which I conducted on behalf of the Reagan National Security Council, we made it very clear that yes, the United States was headed for a mess, and the Soviet economy was headed for a collapse if it continued its present course; and that only by such kinds of cooperation using scientific and technological progress spinoffs to revive a technological revolution in the civilian economies, could we avoid the kind of mess which we are now in with the so-called budget crisis in Washington, and the mess which brought down the Soviet empire. So the two things have always been connected. There was never any possibility of separating the two, and it was clear in my mind, back in 1989, when I followed up my Berlin speech of October 12, 1988, with this proposal, that the two things were connected, and I indicated so to all who would and were able to hear what I was offering. Q: Thank you very much, Mr. LaRouche. - 30 - ---- John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com
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