From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:16 PST 1995
Article: 14049 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:08:27 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49e5he$983@zippy.cais.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	A number of times in this thread respondants for the Holocaust
prosecution have evaded responding to explicit elements of the Nizkor
page posted, by copping 'Where are the URLs?'
	The evidence is all there in the origional post, they are supplied.
Just like putting in all the pertinent address information when
progamming, say "Nicknames" in weudora, and then when you click up the
nickname and it shows up on your screen as that, it has behind it all
the pertinent information. Or like creating a "macro", you create the
contents and then give it a short code, one letter even. Push that
letter and up comes whatever you programmed into the macro.
	Thus if you should go to say "Webcrawler", type in Nizkor, a list of
sites come up where you might find Nizkor. Then you go to Nizkor, and
the home page comes up with a list of subjects. Of course most people
know that if the subject is underlined and colored all you have to do
is click that, say HWEB, which in turn will incite your rig to make a
connection to that function. The URL is really hidden behind the name,
which is confirmed when the lengthy URL address appears at the bottom.

	So what is all the demanding for URLs? Evasion. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:18 PST 1995
Article: 14057 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:08:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	"Holocausterclonism" No. 15. Respond with a recipe for a food dish.

>Beats a recipe for disaster.
	Do you want to clarify this "disaster" statement, John.
>Gosh, my own private Holocausterclonism.

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:19 PST 1995
Article: 14059 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:07:36 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[snip]

>>>Really -- what on earth does this have to do with the Holocaust?

>>	It points out a certain conformity. A lack of individuality. It raises
>>a question as to indoctrination. 'Goose stepping', so to speak.
>>Jamie, seeing how you express your concern for sticking to subject
>>directly, you seem like a good candidate for asking, Where do culinary
>>recipes fit into the picture? 

>Since I am the only person posting recipes, it is probably appropriate
>for me to respond to this.

>The recipes have absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust. But
>then, neither do any of your posts, at least not those that I have
>bothered to read.

>Now, only one person has posted recipes and that person is me. Posting
>recipes is therefore an entirely individual thing to have done.
	Wrong.
>Someone has suggested that I have been posting recipes simply to
>parody you. That is only partly true. It is also true that I don't
>take you at all seriously. On the rare occasions that I can make out
>what you saying, I can't see where anyone would be taken in by your
>inane comments and opinions. As a thinker, you simply aren't worth the
>trouble of writing a serious response.
	Then why do you take the "trouble of writing a" non-serious response? 
>For a very short while, it seemed like it might be worth it, such as
>when you asked about the 4 million dead at Auschwitz. It is a
>legitimate question even if it has been posted on alt.revisionism
>dozens of times in the last year. But when you were given a straight
>answer, you started insisting on the importance of complete
>irrelevancies like the fact that the same historians were cited in my
>post as are cited on Nizkor.
	I believe the topic was Nizkors treatment of the number, among other
things you have selected to ignore.
>As far as I can see, your posts have since degenerated into an endless
>series of whines about name calling and complaints about common Usenet
>punctuation practises. You have so far shown yourself unwilling to
>make the least effort to educate yourself or to challenge the
>arguments presented to you. You have simply made up your mind about
>the Holocaust, and that is that, but since you are apparently
>incapable of dealing seriously with the issue, you have drifted off
>into a series of idiotic complaints. If you want to be taken
>seriously, maybe you should start acting like a serious person.
	Actually if you could see or think straight you would have seen where
I explicitly cited I was not complaining, that it makes me happy to be
called names (see future comment under "Tom Moran is ...").  Show me
where I have been whining or making complaints. Your right, I have
made up my mind about the Holocaust, haven't you? I take note of your
last sentence here also.
>On the other hand, you are a fellow human being. Since your writing is
>all I have to go on, I have developed a mental picture of you. I see
>you as a basically unhappy person, not too bright, probably with very
>few friends outside of your WAR cell, and someone who is manipulated
>by creeps like Tom Metzger. You probably have very few pleasures in
>your life, and the pleasures that you do have are shallow, empty
>experiences that leave you completely unsatisfied. That's where the
>recipes come in.
	Wow. Your good, real good, you think. What do you call this, 'psycic
image channeling' or something? Are you sure your not seeing what you
want to see?
>In some cultures, well-prepared food is considered to be a sensual
>experience as important as sexual pleasure. Not the same experience,
>not even a sublimation of sexual experience, just another order of
>experience potentially as intense in its way and certainly as
>important.

>The recipes I have posted all have strong flavors, certainly a lot
>stronger than people are used to who think that gravy for the mashed
>potatoes is fancy cookin'. They are also picky recipes. They require
>you pay attention to the cooking process, to take care not to overcook
>food, to become involved in the creative act of cooking and eating.
>Personally, I don't eat stuff like I have posted all the time. But I
>do find that cooking it and enjoying the strong flavors makes me aware
>of the potential pleasures in everything I eat.

>To take pleasure in food is to take pleasure in the process of living
>and of keeping yourself alive. To take pleasure in creating good food
>is in a small way to take back control over how you keep yourself
>alive.

>I suppose this may sound all too bourgeois to you. But some of the
>most pleasurable foods are things like homemade burritos with
>scorching hot homemade salsa instead of the insipid muck you get in
>fast food places. Sfiha, which is a peasant spinach and lemon pie from
>Lebanon. Sharp tzantziki, which is a puree of cucumber and garlic in
>yogurt from Greece. Don't get me started on gazpacho.

>Anyway, back to the point. I have not really held out much hope that
>you would cook anything that I have posted recipes for. But I have had
>it in the back of my mind that you might actually go ahead and try one
>and that it might make you happy even if just for a short time. Then
>you might even reflect upon the fact that the information was shared
>freely with you by a "Holocausterclone" and then you might post a
>couple of posts without a chip on your shoulder. Sounds stupid, but it
>was worth a try.
	Show me where the chip is expressed. I'm having fun. I think humor is
vital in every topic. Its everywhere. It is practiced everywhere in
all aspects of life, from funerals to fox holes. Cheer up John.
>I'll tell you what, though. I'll make a deal with you. Try cooking
>something nice for yourself. It could one of my recipes. It could be
>one of your own. Why, I'll even post something new if you tell me what
>you like. Try one meal, describe the experience (privately if you
>like), and I will agree to answer your posts and to take you
>seriously. Deal?
	John, What is your position at the university?
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:19 PST 1995
Article: 14060 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: M. Stein, I do not read your e-mail.
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:07:17 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49e5f7$983@zippy.cais.net>
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	Is this a worlds record? Tom Moran gets flooded with e-amil from Mike
Stein daily. Today, 11/26, I got 16, yup, sixteen e-mail messages from
M. Stein. Michael, do you have time for anything else? Are you on the
ropes or what? Do you know that you are expending a lot of time on
something that doesn't get read? Can't you think about anything else?
Is Tommy always on your 'mind'? 



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:20 PST 1995
Article: 14061 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:07:43 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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	Today 11/25 I recieved a whopping 16, yes that is sixteen e-mails from
Mr. Stein. What a e-mail storm. Smoke and sparks started shooting out
of my rig and the desk started to shake. I thought it was the "big
one" (Calif.lingo for a big earth quake). Perhaps he doesn't realize I
do not read his e-mail. I only respond to postings. As far as I know
they could all be blank pages, or recipes. Who knows. All his e-mail
goes directly to a:/. Will I ever look at it? I don't know.
	In fact I do not look at any e-mail from the Holocausterclonic
faction, except Jamies. I'm still waiting, hoping to see his response
to my response to his invitation.
	
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:21 PST 1995
Article: 14062 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:07:50 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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	For the last number of days a few out here have interpreted for their
own peace of mind, supposedly, that I have posted this article as a
complaint.  No where can it be shown I was complaining. In fact I find
being called names a sign that the debating opponents are losing, as
human nature generally holds such activity.  I'm certain that if it
was I who committed the name calling the name callers would have made
a big stink about it.  But since it has turned out the other way
around, it is okay, and the clonery even escalates. Yikes.
	A number of the participants hold positions in our academic system.
This is scary. Down, down America.  Down, down Canada.
	Consider for a moment if the topics of the post that brought on the
storms of Holocausterclonery were leveled on a format like TV or the
floor of the U.N., would it have taken the course it has? No wonder
they shy away from discussing the Holocaust on such formats. No wonder
they try to close the doors to debate before the masses.



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:22 PST 1995
Article: 14063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Moran's blatant forgeries!
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:07:54 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <497f9n$djn@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>>>A.  Holocausterclonism
>>
>>>>Keep an eye out for these points of similarity committed by
>>>>Holocauster peers.
>>	The numbers inside the () indicate the numbers of times the particular
>>clone practice has been committed in alt.rev postings under; "Nizkor
>>invite accepted" - "Big Question unanswered" - "WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS"
>>- "Argumentum ad populum" - "Boasted Holocaust" - "Nuremburg, Douglas"
>>- Nuremburg, Eisenhower" - "Tom Moran is ..." - To:Holocausterclonism"
>>- "Holocausterclonism" - "To:Holocausterclonism"

>[counts of posts deleted]

>    Excuse me, but since you demand proof that the Einsatzgruppen reports
>weren't forged (without explaining what proof you would accept), I presume
>you can supply proof that you didn't forge all those posts yourself (or
>have a friend do it for you) to "validify" your own posting.  Let's see it.
	Here you are presenting evidence asserting the German people killed
millions and here you are with your cute little response - away from
your Einsatzgruppen article no less.  Whats the matter, are you
ashamed to post your cute little remarks to the article right there at
the article in question?   I guess if you had any further
documentation you'd be presenting it, but your not, so its a forgery.
What is even more iniquitous is the fact of record shows you to be
constantly asking for documentation. Your a sick puppy. If I was
guilty of having a friend post articles this would not be any where as
evil as presenting what your putting out.
>    Waiting.

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:22 PST 1995
Article: 14064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What is Moran Talking About?
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:08:07 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	No counter replies so far to the legitimate points and questions.
Is there more than one Cole film that focuses on a "gas chamber" built
half way below ground?
	Is the building, as already stated, that has a 5 foot door at the
bottom of a equally narrow stair case a good design for mass
evacuation of bodies?
	









From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Nov 28 11:19:23 PST 1995
Article: 14065 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:08:11 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]

>>> Is it not clear
>>> enough?  Doesn't it cite page locations exactly?  Aren't there
>>> explicits?

>>No.  And no.  And as you've been told before, "explicit" is not a noun.

>>>  Jamie, this is not going to go away.

>>Pity.
	Hilary, your response to my saying "Jamie, this is not going to go
away" you repond "Indeed it is".  Is this a threat?
>Indeed it is.  However, 'tis said that every cloud *does* have a
>silver lining.  And I, for one, am most appreciative of the delicious
>recipes posted by Mr. Morris.  Perhaps a vote of thanks is in order to
>Mr. Moran  - whose posts have provided the impetus for Mr. Morris'
>inspired and informative postings.

>If Mr. Moran continues to provide such incentive to Mr. Morris,
>perhaps Mr. Moran will be remembered for his important role in the
>compilation of the a.r. cookbook.

>Posted and e-mailed to Mr. McCarthy, Mr. Morris and Mr. Moran

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 10:13:53 PST 1995
Article: 14281 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!frankensun.altair.com!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 07:38:59 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

	
	of the universe.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:08 PST 1995
Article: 14292 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:12:58 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.120.228
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kmcvay@nanaimo.island.net (Ken McVay) wrote:

>In article <497hd2$e0o@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:

>>	Your right. I did leave out something. The name of the search engine.
>>Now try it. Webcrawler > Nizkor > then the rest.  I don't why you
>>can't find it.  I've used this 10 times and it works every time.  Look
>>at the origional post. Take note of what is covered. Address the
>>points.

>Are you saying that the search engines list each and every file on systems
>such as nizkor.almanac.bc.ca?

>Since you have not yet listed the URLs for the files you noted in your
>tedious article, there is no way to address any points.

	See "Nizkor invite accepted", Tom Moran 8:08.
Show me where I referred to a explicit "nizkor.almanac.bc.ca" that
would require a URL.

>-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
> Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca (Under construction - permanently!)
>    Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:09 PST 1995
Article: 14295 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:10 GMT
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <492617$m0f@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Seems your having the same trouble as Danny and Jamie.  I'm starting
>> to realize a new one for "Holocausterclonism"; Say you can't
>> understand the questions to avoid answering.

>Couldn't be, instead, that you are an inarticulate boob? Naaaaahhhh! 

>> You left out my inclusion about reports on the Demjajuk (spelling
>> uncertain) trials where the Holocasut "survivors" were deemed liars.
>> It might be bad enough that one would lie in order to avoid a
>> conviction, but for one to lie to convict I find it vile.

>Which survivors, specifically, were deemd liars? In reading the summary of
>the Demjanjuk appeal [1] it is evident that Demjanjuk was aquitted because
>the Court admitted unathenticated statements that referred to _other_
>people _besides_ Demjanjuk being named "Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka."
>This introduced reasonable doubt as to Demjanjuk being "Ivan the Terrible
>of Treblinka." There was nothing about witnesses perjuring themselves. I
>noticed, however, that the allegations that Demjanjuk _was_ a member of
>the 'S.S. Wachman Unit' at Trawniki and that Demjanjuk served with the
>S.S. in the Flossenberg and Regensburg concentration camps remained
>undisputed. Therefore, as the Court concluded: Demjanjuk _was_ a "member
>of a group of 'S.S. Wachmaner' whose purpose was murder and whose
>objective was genocide, and whose like is unknown in the history of
>humanity." He simply wasn't proven, without reasonable doubt, to be "Ivan
>the Terrible of Treblinka." And that was what he was being tried for- and
>why he was aquitted. 

>1. THE DEMJANJUK APPEAL
>   SUMMARY BY ASHER FELIX LANDAU
>   Jerusalem, July 29, 1993

>   Israel Information Service Gopher
>   Information Division              
>   Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem
>   Mail all Queries to: ask@israel-info.gov.il

	Not for one nano-second would I accept anything out of Israel as a
full account.  

>You were saying something liars being vile? 


>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:10 PST 1995
Article: 14296 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:17 GMT
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	John, respond to the new post, "PHOTOS HAVE BEEN FOUND?"

>No.
 Okay, then don't.
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:10 PST 1995
Article: 14297 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:22 GMT
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Could you list the explicits as to "we're the ones".

>Mr. Moran, this is the third or fourth time I've seen you use the
>word "explicit" as a noun, _after_ having been corrected at least
>twice.

>Is English your native language?  If not, just say so and I for one
>will be a lot more understanding.

	Jamie is Hilary's puppet. Jamie says he doesn't have time to respond
to explicits under "Nizkor invite accepted", yet here he is cloning
around over here. 
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy   jamie@voyager.net   http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> I speak only for myself.           Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless otherwise specified, I consider pro-"revisionism" email public domain




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:11 PST 1995
Article: 14298 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:26 GMT
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dmittleman@bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>Interesting.  From above it looks as though you have mostly been
>talking to yourself (add claims of schizophrenia to the list!)

>>>>A.  Holocausterclonism

>>>>Keep an eye out for these points of similarity committed by
>>>>Holocauster peers.
>>	The numbers inside the () indicate the numbers of times the particular
>>clone practice has been committed in alt.rev postings under; "Nizkor
>>invite accepted" - "Big Question unanswered" - "WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS"
>>- "Argumentum ad populum" - "Boasted Holocaust" - "Nuremburg, Douglas"
>>- Nuremburg, Eisenhower" - "Tom Moran is ..." - To:Holocausterclonism"
>>- "Holocausterclonism" - "To:Holocausterclonism"

>I am curious.  Is there a point to the list you are building?  Are you
>partaking in some sort of sports statistics?  Are you developing proof
>for some sort of hypothesis?  If the latter, pray tell, what might
>this hypothesis be?

>>  12. Cite a persons title, or profess that title is relevant to proof.(8)

>These are two very different charges.  The first is clearly
>irrelevent, the second would be a valid charge if it infact has
>happened (which I doubt.)

>>> 13. Respond with a culinary recipe.(8)

>I must have missed the recipies.  I'm amused as to what that could
>have been :>

	Danny No.13 is to be amended to read, 'Respond with or abet a culinary
recipe as a response.'  The update tally is now (12). You say you
"missed the recipes". Your not telling the truth, Danny.

>>  14. Respond to explicitly cited website locations by asking "Where
>>are the URLs.(8)  

>Yup.  To really explicityl cite a web location YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE THE
>URLs.  You have never done this.  Ergo, you have never explicitly
>cited a web location.

>>  15. Claim they can't make out what your asking.(10)
>>  16. Proclaim the repondants writing as inferior.(17)

>As Mike Stein asked you, is this usually done to other denier posters?
>My best recollection of another similar thread has been in response to
>Marc Lamaire's mostly illiterate writing.  He *may* have the excuse of
>being a native French speaker - I don't know.  I asked you once last
>week if you were a native English speaker (as I would surely lay off
>the literacy digs if you were not.)  To the best of my knowledge you
>opted to not respond to that question.  I know of no other threads
>where the denier's lack of literacy has become a central issue.  In
>fact, some deniers (Greg Raven, Ross Vicksell, Brad Smith, Milt Kleim,
>even Al Baron) have shown themselves to be adequately literate.  Their
>posts have been addressed for content.  Yours are difficult to
>understand.

>[testing out a new newsreader with this post, hope it all comes
>through OK]

>danny






From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:12 PST 1995
Article: 14299 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:32 GMT
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <497f9n$djn@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>[counts of number of times people have committed a "point of similarity" 
>deleted]

>    Do your counts include the number of times you yourself have 
>committed one of these "points?"

	I take this to mean you are admitting to the post.

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:12 PST 1995
Article: 14300 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:37 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>A.  Holocausterclonism

>>>Keep an eye out for these points of similarity committed by
>>>Holocauster peers.
>	The numbers inside the () indicate the numbers of times the particular
>clone practice has been committed in alt.rev postings under; "Nizkor
>invite accepted" - "Big Question unanswered" - "WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS"
>- "Argumentum ad populum" - "Boasted Holocaust" - "Nuremburg, Douglas"
>- Nuremburg, Eisenhower" - "Tom Moran is ..." - To:Holocausterclonism"
>- "Holocausterclonism" - "To:Holocausterclonism"

	New update, 11/28
>>>1. Nitpicking  grammar, spelling, all in the same sentence
>of the committing the same. (31)   >>
>  2. Accenting words and phrases with those little  _ s and  * s.(109)
>>>3. Giving each other rave reviews.(5)
>>>4. Announcing absolute conclusions.(37)
>>>5. Sending e-mail that says its been posted and it never shows up.(17)
>>>6. Dubbing; "Neo-Nazis", "skinheads", "racists", etc.(5)
>>>7. Citing one exception out of many to make a point.(4)
>> 8. Citing quantities as relevant to proof.(6)
>  9. Delay posting after sending e-mail. Blame it on "flakey
>service".(7) >
>  10. Respond for another.(17)
>  10a. Jump in to support another's response.(23)> 
>  11  Make snide little remarks.(51)
>  11a. Call derogatory names.(18)
>  12. Cite a persons title, or profess that title is relevant to
>>proof.(11)
>> 13. Respond with a culinary recipe.(8
Amendment:Respond with or abet culinary recipes as a response. (13)
>  14. Respond to explicitly cited website locations by asking "Where
>are the URLs.(13)  
>  15. Claim they can't make out what your asking.(15)
>  16. Proclaim the repondants writing as inferior.(22)







From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:13 PST 1995
Article: 14301 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:42 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	
	ATTENTION: No.17; English must not be Tom Moran's main language. He
can't read it, write it or understand it. (12)



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:14 PST 1995
Article: 14302 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Main Convincing Point for Revisionism
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:46 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
	Lest, of course, you are Holocausterclonically insane.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:15 PST 1995
Article: 14303 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran-Geologist at Large (was Re: Holocausterclonism)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:13:52 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49e5fm$983@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        Your right, I don't. I read mostly general topic geology books, many
>>authors, College 'fundementals' of geology books, many authors,
>>"Roadside Geology of ..." books, I've taken it in college, five
>>courses, I've been on a number of field trips, I can go any where,
>>look at just about anything geological and tell you what happened,
>>what is happening and what is going to happen. 


>My what hubris.  I have professors who do not make that claim.  And as to 
>what is going to happen, give me a freakin' break.  Almost no professional 
>geologist would ever make the claim that they can forsee the future.

>If you think that five courses and a few field trips make you knowledgeable 
>on geology, grow up.  I've spent four years, two field schools, have worked 
>with industry and government over the summers and have studied under one of 
>the world's foremost structural geologists and I wouldn't even think of 
>making the claim that I knew everything, or even almost everything.

	Now Morrison, you should have posted this where it all started,
instead of down here away isolated from it. Now why did you do that?
	Show where I said anything about "everything". I believe I used the
word "general".
	Lets use a obvious example for easy referrence. The Grand Canyon area.
Are you telling me that I can't drive around this area and say 'Look
theres the canyon. Look at the stratification. This is the result of
deposition of sediments when the land was much lower and inundated
with water. Eventually the land began to rise. Stream beds appeared
and began to cut into the rising land. As the process of uplift
continued so did the erosion of the stream beds.  In the beginning
there was a dendritic pattern and this would account for the deep cuts
leading into the main channel known as the Colorado River. Theres the
general past. 
	I could further say that this process of erosion is still continuing
at this time.  From this I could say that the width and the depth of
the cuts are widening. From this I refer to the present.  I could
further say that this process will coninue and draw likely scenarios
of what the land will look like in the future, something like Monument
Valley.  Of course cataclysmic events could happen that might upset
this scenario for the future, but it would have to be super. 
	Naturally we could go into the dynamics further as to any associated
features such as igneous activity, mass wasting, composition of the
layers, the reasons for there various colors and a myriad of other
considerations.
	As to those other geologists you refer to, I'd bet they give basically
the same recap on past, present and future, which would leave you the
odd man out.
	
>I would love to see you in some of the areas I've worked and then try and 
>tell me you knew what was going on.  I personally know geologists who have 
>worked in areas for over 20 years and they can't agree what is happening.  
>So excuse me if I give a little chuckle when you make your claim.
	If your talking 'exactly' they probably don't know. If your talking
'generally' i'd say yes.
>By the way, what were the courses?  Structural, economic, rock mechanics, 
>geotectonic, historical, sedimentary, paleontological, geophysics, 
>geochemistry, isotopic, mineralogical, metamorphic, igneous?  That's my 
>basic course load.  What did you take?

	All of the above, generally.

>>        No, I am not impressed or intimidated by your flurry of
>>'intellectualism', but I was expecting such a return.

>But I was being serious!  Outside of the sci.geo.* groups I don't meet a lot 
>of other geologists on the Net, except on talk.origins.
	I point out the processes of geology as an example to people to show
how knowledge can give one the power of seeing into the past, present
and future. It is a graphically easy concept to see in this respect.
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:15 PST 1995
Article: 14305 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Argumentum ad populum
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:00 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>    Actually, Tom you ask some good questions below.  I am not sure if you
>    really want to know the answers, or are merely posturing, but as the
>    questions are solid I will do my best to answer them...

>In article <4955ua$s9s@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>>>    I only profess things to be absolute when I am quite sure of them.  I
>>>    am quite sure of the *fact* of the Holocaust because:
>> 
>>>    1. Every accredited WWII and Jewish Studies Historian in the world
>>>    accepts the Holocaust as fact;
>> 
>>	Would you present a list of the "accredited" Holocaust historians?
>>Also a statement on what constitutes accredation.

>    First the statement on what constitues accreditation.  There are many
>    Universities which grant doctorates in History and in other related
>    subject areas.  Doctoral degrees require a student to demonstrate
>    he/she has the ability to undertake valid research.  A student who
>    receives a doctorate in history (or in a related area) has demonstrated
>    to others (who have such skills) that he/she also possesses those
>    skills.  In history the process of using valid research methods to
>    increase information and understanding is called historiography.  In
>    other fields it may have a different name, but the methods are similar
>    and complementary.

>    I view one as being accredited if one has received a doctorate from a
>    University which is generally regarded (by this I mean: regarded the
>    most of the people in the world who have doctorates in a given field)
>    as being capable of accrediting new doctorates.  If one is accredited
>    in History or in a related field and one has demonstrated in the
>    accreditation process knowledge of 20th century European history then I
>    view that person as accredited to do historiographic Holocaust research.

>    A second method of determining accreditation (and a method which is
>    more lax) would be to deem as accredited any individual who publishes a
>    peer reviewed article in a journal made up of an editorial board
>    consisting of people in the first category of accreditation (that is,
>    people with doctorates in history.)  This second method allows for
>    non-formally trained individuals and for current students to be
>    recognized as competent.

>    Next, you asked for a list of accredited historians.  What I present is
>    by no means a complete list or a list of the "best" Holocaust
>    historians, but it is a list of accredited historians (as best I can
>    tell.)  To form this list I used the latter method listed above (simply
>    because I am unwilling to take the time required to compose a list
>    using the first method listed above).  To create this list I used my
>    University's computer card catalog and searched for [1] authors of
>    books on the Holocaust published by academic presses and [2] authors of
>    refereed journal articles in historical journals.  I then scanned the
>    list generated to pull out any obvious false positives.

>    I admit this is a quick and dirty way to generate such a list, but then
>    I don't think that this part of your question above merits any more
>    research than this.  This list I put together is:

>Albert, Phyllis Cohen.
>Aronson, Shlomo.
>Berenbaum, Michael
>Bergen, Doris L.
>Berger, Ronald J.
>Bernstein, Michael Andre.
>Black, Peter R.
>Blom, J.C.H.
>Braun, Robert.
>Breitman, Richard.
>Brenner, Rachel Feldhay.
>Burstin, Barbara Stern.
>Caron, Vicki.
>Cohen, Richard I.
>Eisner, Arnold.
>Ellis, Marc H.
>Feingold, Henry L.
>Fresco, Nadine.
>Garber, Zev.
>Glatt, Aaron E.
>Gould, Stephen Jay.
>Gutman, Sanford.
>Hass, Aaron.
>Hilberg, Raul.
>Hoffmann, Peter.
>Housden, Martyn.
>Kansteiner, Wulf.
>Katz, Steven T.
>Kellner, Hans.
>Kelman, Sidney.
>Kochavi, Arieh J.
>Kraut, Benny.
>Lang, Berel.
>Langer, Lawrence L.
>Lapomarda, Vincent A.
>Lefkovitz, Elliot
>Mann, Cuthbert Carson.
>Marrus, Michael R.
>Medoff, Rafael.
>Minear, Richard H.
>Mittleman, Alan. (no relation to me)
>Neusner, Jacob.
>Nicosia, Francis R.
>Porat, Dina.
>Reiter, Andrea.
>Rose, Paul Lawrence.
>Sharp, Ronald A.
>Sillanpoa, Wallace P.
>Stein, Dorothy.

>    I hope this answer satisfies you.

>>>    2. There are *no* competing hypotheses circulating among these
>>>    accredited Historians to explain the trace evidence of the Holocaust;
>> 
>>	"Trace" evidence?  Could you expand on this?  By "no competing
>>hypothesis" I take it to mean in total agreement.  Could you expand on
>>this also?

>    Lets take the "no competing hypothesis" question first.  Yes, by this
>    statement I mean that there is "total agreement" that the Holocaust
>    occured in the general manner depicted by historical articles and
>    history books.  Now, before you ask, by "general manner" I mean that
>    certainly there are differences of opinion around the edges.  For
>    example - as you have pointed out in a previous post - there is not
>    total agreement as to exactly how many people died in the Holocaust. 
>    Historians and Demographers vary from about 10 million to about 12
>    million in total death counts and from about 4.9 million to over 6.5
>    million in Jewish death counts (I believe; I am not keeping current on
>    the recent developments in this field.)  What is consistent among all
>    of these researchers is their use of - and acceptance of - primary
>    source documents to determine their counts.  What differs is [1]
>    demographic methods they use, [2] assumptions they make when there is
>    incomplete information, and [3] strict definition of what deaths were
>    part of the Holocaust and what deaths were military WWII deaths.

>    Next, you ask what "trace evidence" is.  My knowledge of using "trace
>    evidence" comes from my research methods training in environmental
>    psychology.  In that field trace evidence is the physical evidence at
>    an environmental site which depicts how that site has been previously
>    used.  For example, it might be wear and tear on a carpet to show where
>    people generally walk.  It might be smudge marks on a wall to show that
>    people generally put their hands on the wall at that point.  Trace
>    evidence is vital in figuring out how people use the physical
>    environment - although it should not be used alone without other
>    research methods to triangulate with.

>    In regards to the Holocaust I use the term "trace evidence" to refer to
>    the physical evidence left at the concentration camp and death camp
>    sites.  This trace evidence included: gas chambers with traces to
>    poison gas still on the walls, ovens, fields with bones in them, etc. 
>    This is to say that there are considerable traces of physical evidence
>    which remain at the camps which help a skilled researcher to recreate
>    what life (and death) was like at those camps.  But as I say above, a
>    skilled researcher will not draw conclusions only from trace evidence;
>    rather a skilled researcher will triangulate to conclusions with trace
>    evidence and other research methods.

>>>    3. I came to alt.revisionism in the Spring of 1993 from the newsgroup
>>>    sci.skeptic looking to see if there was any legitimate and defensible
>>>    argument against the reality of the Holocaust - I have seen dozens of
>>>    deniers try to make such arguments - I have seen none of those
>>>    arguments hold up against the documentation and the logic presented by
>>>    the archivists.
>> 
>>	Could you present some non-"trace" evidence that has swayed your
>>personal mind?

>    Good question.  I have been swaying by reading the testimonies of both
>    camp prisoners and camp staff that has been reprinted for us here in
>    alt.revisionism.  I am a good enough researcher to know that any one
>    piece of testimony means little by itself.  The individual could well
>    have a jaded or incorrect point of view.  There are lots of possible
>    reasons for testimony to be wrong - many of which have been mentioned
>    in alt.revisionism before.

>    However, what I have noticed is that there are a great many
>    testimonies.  I have read dozens if not hundreds here.  And the
>    testimonies come not only from prisioners, but from camp staff.  These
>    testimonies over time compose a mosaic of what probably happened at the
>    camps.  That is: any one testimony may be wrong, but when we read
>    dozens which portray roughly the same picture we begin to weave a sense
>    of what actually happened.  I have read enough testimonies where I
>    think I can weave that sense.

>    Further, these testimonies weave together with bureaucratic documents
>    from the Nazi regime and from speeches and writings of the Nazi
>    leadership.  All of this adds to the mosaic of understanding what
>    happened.

>    Further, all of this information fits with the findings of the
>    demographers who note that between 10 and 12 million people are
>    missing.  And further, all this fits with the trace evidence which I
>    discussed above.

>    So, when you take the enourmity of evidence that is available about the
>    Holocaust and you create a mosaic of what most likely happened in those
>    camps, it becomes clear as to why historians view the Holocaust as act
>    and as to why there are no alternative hypotheses to explain this
>    evidence.

>>>    That is an absolute.  I am comfortable with it.  I will continue to
>>>    entertain arguments that I am wrong and if someday a solid argument is
>>>    presented I will reconsider my assertion.  But as time goes on and I
>>>    learn more, I more and more doubt that will happen.
>> 
>>	"Absolute" yet willing to "entertain" arguments?  Actually the more I
>>read of these response the more I entertain a theory you don't believe
>>it in your sub-conscious.  And, the more I entertain the theory you
>>are morally corrupt.

>    Don't know what your second sentence means, but I think I can answer
>    your third sentence by addressing the first.

>    The whole process of positivist science as most of us practice in the
>    20th century is to seek out alternative hypotheses, test those
>    hypotheses, and then either accept or reject them.  We accept that we
>    can never truely know anything as fact, but we can treat as fact the
>    hypotheses we are currently accepting (the null hypotheses.)  (I
>    realize I am butchering about a semester of research methods here, but
>    it is tough for me to condense all this information down to a
>    paragraph.)

>    So, I have looked at the evidence presented to me in alt.revisionism
>    and have decided to accept the null hypothesis also accepted by *all* 
>    of the accredited Holocaust Historians in the world: IT HAPPENED.  I
>    call it fact because it is the null hypothesis and because I know of no
>    competing hypotheses that are even being entertained by accredited
>    Holocaust Historians.

>    Nevertheless, as a researcher myself, I never completely accept any
>    null hypothesis without question.  I am always willing to consider an
>    alternative hypothesis if one is put forward.  (Though I am not willing
>    to waste my time so I want an alternative hypothesis to pass at least a
>    test of face validity before I will expend any effort on it.)

>    I offered two and a half years ago when I first began reading
>    alt.revisionism to consider alternative hypotheses to explain all of
>    the evidence we have about the Holocaust.  No one put forward a
>    hypotheses which passed a test of face validity: that is to say there
>    have been few hypotheses put forward at all and those which were were
>    reduced to rubble almost immediately by countering posts.

>    As an honest researcher, I still hold out my offer to consider
>    alternative hypotheses, but after 30 months here - and the additional
>    information I have learned over this time - I sincerely doubt that I
>    will be tempted to serious consider one.

>    So, quite frankly, I think I am *less* morally corrupt than anyone who
>    will tell you that "the Holocaust happened and I am not going to
>    consider anything else."  But then your view of my moral corruptness
>    troubles me not at all.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh

	Danny, your stuff was too long for my short attention span, so I am
only going to respond to the first part.
	Doctorates are a 'dime a dozen'. They don't guarantee anything.
	I had a neighbor a number of years back that got one in "Medieval
Dream Poetry". Does this necessarilly give her wisdom in general life?



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:16 PST 1995
Article: 14306 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!oronet!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:16 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]
>>>>>  Jamie, this is not going to go away.

>>>>Pity.
>>	Hilary, your response to my saying "Jamie, this is not going to go
>>away" you repond "Indeed it is".  Is this a threat?

>Had you examined my post with slightly more care than you have, to
>date, demonstrated you have the capacity to exercise, Mr. Moran, you
>would have observed that my response was *not* "in response to [your]
>saying" anything.  And while I did, indeed, write the words "Indeed it
>is", this was an exclamation in apposition to, and in concurrence
>with, Mr. McCarthy's concise summary, viz "Pity".

>Wherein lies this perceived threat, Mr. Moran?  Or did you really
>perceive a threat (unlike you, I do not presume to read minds)?

>Had you taken the trouble to read the rest of the paragraph, and
>studied it very carefully, (for your convenience, I shall leave it as
>part of this post in case you missed it when you posted your response
>in which you _did_ include the paragraph), you would have seen that I
>was suggesting that we owed you a vote of thanks. 

>>>Indeed it is.  However, 'tis said that every cloud *does* have a
>>>silver lining.  And I, for one, am most appreciative of the delicious
>>>recipes posted by Mr. Morris.  Perhaps a vote of thanks is in order to
>>>Mr. Moran  - whose posts have provided the impetus for Mr. Morris'
>>>inspired and informative postings.

>And besides, I never make threats ... just promises, and I tend to
>keep every single one of them.

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

	Hilary, do you have a doctorate in something? You write like one.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:17 PST 1995
Article: 14307 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!oronet!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49i4bv$r7b@zippy.cais.net>
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49a126$2v2@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>>>In article <48q6et$pf6@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) 
>writes:

>>>>>>        One more thing. We are to assume that all this mass killing took place
>>>>>>at concentration camps. Simon Wiesenthal list the camps under
>>>>>>"Holocasut Glossary: Terms, Places, and Personalities."
>>>>>>        Under "Extermination Camps" we find "Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzek,
>>>>>>Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka."


>>        Show me where I "asserted that everyone was killed in the camps. 


>Message id <48q6et$pf6@zippy.cais.net>  Look up about 10 lines.  "We are to 
>assume that all this mass killing took place at concentration camps."

>Now, not many people have the audacity to say "Show me where I said that!" 
>in the same message where it is recorded what they said.  Well, the audacity 
>or the stupidity.  Take your pick.
	You didn't show me.
>Some times its so easy, I'm almost ashamed of myself.
        Maybe this is your problem. You get witty little responses in
your head and thats it. Sort of running on automatic impulse that
developed over a life time.
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:18 PST 1995
Article: 14308 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech2!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:47 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>>In article <49261m$m0f@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>> jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) wrote:
>>> >2) Are you aware that it is common practise in the English language to
>>> >  underline or italicize certain proper nouns, such as the names of
>>> >  books or newspapers, paintings, ships, etc...? 

>>> No. I am not aware of the process as being "common".  Are you
>>> professing this is what Holocausterclones limit their accenting to?

>    Yes, at least until people began to mock you they were limiting their
>    use of underline to the items mentioned above.  As far as this being a
>    common practice I refer you to the following web site:
	"Yes, ..."? Lie. Let me get this straight, are you saying people are
committing foolish over usage of stressing to "mock" me? Interesting.
Do you see any connotations in this? If not I'll tell you what I think
about people who commit foolery to mock another.
>    

>    This site is the tipsheet for following APA guidelines.  The APA
>    (American Psychological Association) guidelines are probably the
>    principle standard for writing in the social sciences (although some
>    disciplines use their own varients and some follow the Chicago Manual
>    of Style (addressed below).  Regarding italics (where such typesetting
>    is possible (or underlining where it is not) the tipsheet says:

>         -------------
>         Italics (Underlining)

>         Do not underline common foreign abbreviations (vice versa, et al.,
>         a priori).

>         Do not underline for mere emphasis.

>         Underline for titles of books and articles, species names,
>         introduction of new terms and labels (the first time only), words
>         and phrases used as linguistic examples, letters used as
>         statistical symbols, and volume numbers in reference lists.
>         --------------

>    I should note that it does say that we should not underline for
>    emphasis.  I challange you to find an example of that in
>    alt.revisionism prior to people beginning to mock you (or in any post
>    where people are not mocking you - which admittedly is becoming
>    uncommon in posts to you.)  I also note that it clearly says that we
>    should underline titles of books etc. as we have been telling you all
>    along.  THAT IS: THE PRACTICE IS COMMON.

>>> >3) Can you get it through your thick, yet puny, skull that lots of us
>>> >  have decided to use undrlines _surrounding_ a word in order to
>>> >  indicate that word as part of a title? (E.G., _The_Tempest_)

>>> See above. Perhaps you could cite a few locations posted at this time
>>> on alt.rev. to show you are correct.  After you find possibly a few, I
>>> will cite many other stressed statements to show you intentionally
>>> selected the few exceptions out of the many.

>    No you won't because such examples do not exist.  Now in regards to
>    using underlines surrounding a word as _such_ I point you to the online
>    advertisement for the Chicago Manual of Style (the Manual itself is not
>    online).  The Chicago Manual of Style is the principle style guide used
>    by academics and journalists.  There are other guides such as the New
>    York Times guide, the APA Manual (mentioned above) and others, but in
>    the basic points (which underlining is) *ALL* of the style guides
>    follow the same format.  The Chicago Manual of Style is an excellent
>    example of these manuals and represents wide usage.  The Manual 
>    advertisement is at:

>         

>    and this points to information pages describing each section of the
>    book as well as an overview of what is new in the latest version.  I
>    direct you to this latter page which is at:

>        

>    and lo and behold it says:

>         -------------
>         Section: What's new in the 14th Edition of 
>         THE CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE

>         The University of Chicago Press has just published the  new
>         edition, the first in eleven years, of the indispensable  tool for
>         writers, editors, proofreaders, and publishers. Almost 200 pages
>         longer than its predecessor, _THE  CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE, 14TH
>         EDITION_, has been thoroughly  revised and updated.  It's richer
>         in illustrative examples,  easier to use, and incorporates the
>         latest developments in  technology and changes in style and usage
>         in every chapter. The new edition of the _MANUAL_ meets the needs
>         of  today's writers and editors with two broad categories of 
>         changes.
>         -------------

>    Well lookee here, Tom.  The Chicago Manual of Style itself uses
>    underlines surrounding words to denote book names JUST LIKE WE DO IN
>    ALT.REVISIONISM.

>    So I did you one better Tom.  Rather than posting alt.revisionism
>    examples to try to prove the point with greater counts (which you were
>    going to try to do even though you denounce the technique, you twit) I
>    presented you with examples two authoritative style manuals - and the
>    URLs so that you can go look at each of them to make sure I am not
>    presenting exceptions to the rule, but rather the rule itself.

>    And the one final point I would like to make on this subject is:
>    EVEN IF YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE UNDERLINING (WHICH YOU ARE CLEARLY
>    NOT) WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANY POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO
>    MAKE ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST?

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:19 PST 1995
Article: 14312 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:57 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <495608$s9s@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>	a "smuck". a "cur". a "fool". a "ass hole". full of "contemptable bull
>>>>>shit". a "jerk".
>>>>>	Any more?  
>>>> 
>>>>	Tom Moran is "suffering from colossal ignorance and paranoid
>>>>dilusions".  He is also unable "to cope with reality".
>>>>	He is also suffering "incoherence".
>> 
>>>    Tom is also schizophrenicly talking to himself  ;>
>> 
>>>    I missed Tom's initial post on this thread.  I have no idea what Tom is
>>>    getting at here.  
>> 
>>	God all mighty. Here you are responding to my initial post, which is
>>included here at this time and then you wind up saying you missed my
>>initial post.  You know Danny, you cause me a lot of trouble. Your
>>stuff can be so ... I have to read it over and over to 'believe my own
>>eyes'. Your position in the academic world scares me.
>> 
>>	Anyway, thanks for the example.

>    Your (sic) welcome for the example Tom.  I have absolutely no
>    confidence in your ability to put all these examples together into
>    anything coherent.

>    If you look up top you will see I wasn't answering your initial post, I
>    was answering a second generation response to a post of yours.  That
>    post turns out to be your initial post but I had no idea at the time
>    as:

>    1. It does not initiate any sort of coherent argument - as  inistial
>    posts usually do; and
>    2. Your initial post had not yet arrived at my site (it arrived a day
>    after I posted the above response - I am quite confident you did
>    nothing sinister to cause it to come late.  I'm not paranoid nor do I
>    think you would have the capability to do such a thing.)

>    Tom, maybe you have a problem with my writing because I often write
>    above the second grade level that you do.

>    Good luck with the additional examples...
	In fact I am having good luck with additional examples, just as I knew
it would happen. Keep em comin.
>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 12:09:19 PST 1995
Article: 14314 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:28 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) writes:

># Although I believe the Einsatzgruppen were responsible for 
># about a million or so (Dr Keren, Mr McVay?) 

>According to the recent publications of the "Institute for
>Contemporary History" in Munich, the number of Jews killed
>in the Einsatzgruppen mass executions in Nazi-occupied USSR
>was at least 900,000.

	How many else, outside of the USSR? 

>-Danny Keren.


>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

>-Lu Xun.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 15:27:28 PST 1995
Article: 14315 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49i4ca$r7b@zippy.cais.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <49261h$m0f@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>> >    Its humor, Tom.  Humor.
>> 
>>  Danny, watch out you don't drive yourself crazy.

>And you too Tom, lest you trip over your foolish tongue. Again.
	Again?
>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 15:27:30 PST 1995
Article: 14316 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:14:39 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49i4ci$r7b@zippy.cais.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <49261m$m0f@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) wrote:
>> 
>> >Tom Moran is so rapiudly heading towards that apex of stupidity henceforthg
>> >reached only by Les Griswold, that I have decided to abandon my normal
>> >politeness.  Moran can only be s desciribed from here on as a Moron!
>> >There are a few questions I could addres to him, though:
>> 
>>         Why do you pose questions to a moron?

>We like to whatch your brows knit in frustration as you (unsuccessfully)
>try and comprehend the questions? 

>> >1) You say that you read a lot of newspapers.  Have you ever read any
>> >  style guides, or any scholarly papers/books?
>> 
>> Not being ethnocentrically insane, I have no problem reading about the
>> history of other cultures.  

>Perhaps. You do seem to have a problem with _understanding_ what is
>written though. 

>> I am also a connoisseur of physics, astronomy, geology, evolutionary
>processes, electronics, mechanical processes, the arts, philosophy, animal
>life and politics. What do you like? 

>Jack of all trades, master of none? You _do_ flatter yourself! BTW, I
>noticed you left out being a connoisseur of History. Freudian slip
>perhaps? 
	I left out history? Wrong.
>> >2) Are you aware that it is common practise in the English language to
>> >  underline or italicize certain proper nouns, such as the names of
>> >  books or newspapers, paintings, ships, etc...? 
>> 
>> No. I am not aware of the process as being "common".  Are you
>> professing this is what Holocausterclones limit their accenting to?

>Did you _ever_ take an English grammer course? Did you _ever_ pass one if
>you did? Silly question... Underlining or italicizing, for instance,
>serves exactly the same purpose as quoting certain proper nouns and is
>actually _preferred_, as it less confusing and easier to identify in a
>body of text. It is also how one _emphasizes_ (e.g. stresses) a particular
>word. 
	
>> >3) Can you get it through your thick, yet puny, skull that lots of us
>> >  have decided to use undrlines _surrounding_ a word in order to
>> >  indicate that word as part of a title? (E.G., _The_Tempest_)
>> 
	So you do profess this is what the Holocausterclones limit there
rampant _s and *s to.

>> See above. Perhaps you could cite a few locations posted at this time
>> on alt.rev. to show you are correct.  After you find possibly a few, I
>> will cite many other stressed statements to show you intentionally
>> selected the few exceptions out of the many.

>See above yourself. And yes, please _do_ cite some other way to emphasize
>words without using standard ASCII text in a ASCII only newsreader. You
>_do_ know what ASCII text is, right? (Must you be such a twit _all_ the
>time?) 

>> Yes. Have you ever seen things stressed to the extent they are by
>> Holocasuterclones?  To what extent are words stressed in newspapers,
>> say? Or to matter, by revisionists?  

>Expand your horizons. Read other newsgroups. Better yet, take a remedial
>grammer class. If that is too much to ask, then please, go watch cartoons
>or something and quit bothering people with your pettiness. There are
>enough halfwits here already without you adding to the burden.

>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 15:27:30 PST 1995
Article: 14317 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What is Moran Talking About?
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:15:04 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Sigh. Moran, it does seem obvious that you're not completely
>sane, but *please* try to understand that it would help if you
>finally tell us just which gas chamber you're talking about. 

>In which camp is it located?

>It seems that you simply don't know; apparently, you saw this
>movie by Cole, but you don't know in which camp is this gas 
>chamber located.

>It will be much easier to relate to your question if you tell us
>which gas chamber are you talking about.

>One last attempt:

>Do you know where is the gas chamber you're talking about?

>I tried to make the question as simple as possible - please
>try to answer it. If you know the camp's name post 
>it, and if you don't, just say that you don't know. Ok?

	Auschwitz.

>-Danny Keren.



>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

>-Lu Xun.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 18:52:53 PST 1995
Article: 14339 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!simtel!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Moran commits #4
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:22:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 4
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	See "Nizkor invite accepted" Tom Moran 8:08



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 18:52:54 PST 1995
Article: 14340 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!simtel!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What Language is Moran Speaking?
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:22:28 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 45
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <4955tc$s9s@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>	Just the title of Danny Ks post was enough to send me into a laughing
>>fit, even before I clicked it up.

>    Did you know that inappropriate laughter is a sign of insanity?

	Inappropriate?

>>	It was another example of copping the clone practice of asserting they
>>don't know what Tom Moran is talking about.
>>	Once I clicked it up, it brought on another riant attack.

>    "Riant" is an extremely obscure English word.  It's a rather common 
>French word, however.  What language did you first speak, Mr. Moran?

	You better write all the dictionaries and tell them to cut it from
their next editions. If it's so obscure, why is it there?

>>	Here I cited the David Cole film, which my memory recalls focused on
>>one particular building, which I pointed out was built half way below
>>ground, and Danny K wants to know what building I'm talking about.

>    I believe if you read very carefully you'll find that he's trying to 
>find out if YOU know what building you're talking about.  I believe I 
>know why he is asking this.

	Why?

>>But then I have only seen one film by Cole.  Are there more that focus
>>on a building that is built half way below ground?

>    Why do you assume that Danny Keren has seen any film by David Cole? 
>More egocentric insanity?

		

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Nov 29 18:52:55 PST 1995
Article: 14341 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!simtel!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How to refer to something so others can find it
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:22:36 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 46
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <497hd2$e0o@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>>	What is all this about "URLs"?  
>>
>>>[explanation snipped]

>>Your right. I did leave out something. The name of the search engine.
>>Now try it. Webcrawler > Nizkor > then the rest.  I don't why you
>>can't find it.

>    The reason you don't know why is because you are egocentrically
>insane.  You think that people should have magically known what you did to
>get to the document you are asking about.  Now you expect people to
>remember what "the rest" was (even though it's expired from many servers
>by now). 

>    Listen.  Before you spout off your ignorance again about how the net
>and the Web work, go and read the book which has on its cover a picture of
>a punk girl with green and blue yarn for hair, with text overlaid in
>mostly white and a bit of red. 

>    I have given you an "explicit" describing exactly which book I am
>talking about, so I don't want to hear any lame excuses about how you need
>more information to find it, like a title and an author, or how you don't
>have the time to go to the bookstore and look at the cover of every book
>about the Internet in order to find out which book I'm talking about.  If
>you think the vague pointers you supplied should be good enough for Jamie,
>so that you don't have to given him a URL (the Web equivalent of an exact
>title and author), then this description of the book should be good enough
>for you.  So start looking.

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

	Typing Nizkor into the prompt box of say, Webcrawler, then clicking
"Nizkor Home Page" is a URL.  Once into Nizkor and clicking up say,
"HWEB Project" is atoumatically clicking up a URL.  To cite any of
these is to cite a URL.  See "Nizkor" alt.rev. Tom Moran 8:08
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Nov 30 19:11:43 PST 1995
Article: 14341 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!simtel!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How to refer to something so others can find it
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:22:36 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <49fd18$lhe@zippy.cais.net>
References:  <48vngd$iqp@zippy.cais.net> <4903on$uve@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <497hd2$e0o@zippy.cais.net> <49acfj$fm6@access2.digex.net>
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <497hd2$e0o@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>>	What is all this about "URLs"?  
>>
>>>[explanation snipped]

>>Your right. I did leave out something. The name of the search engine.
>>Now try it. Webcrawler > Nizkor > then the rest.  I don't why you
>>can't find it.

>    The reason you don't know why is because you are egocentrically
>insane.  You think that people should have magically known what you did to
>get to the document you are asking about.  Now you expect people to
>remember what "the rest" was (even though it's expired from many servers
>by now). 

>    Listen.  Before you spout off your ignorance again about how the net
>and the Web work, go and read the book which has on its cover a picture of
>a punk girl with green and blue yarn for hair, with text overlaid in
>mostly white and a bit of red. 

>    I have given you an "explicit" describing exactly which book I am
>talking about, so I don't want to hear any lame excuses about how you need
>more information to find it, like a title and an author, or how you don't
>have the time to go to the bookstore and look at the cover of every book
>about the Internet in order to find out which book I'm talking about.  If
>you think the vague pointers you supplied should be good enough for Jamie,
>so that you don't have to given him a URL (the Web equivalent of an exact
>title and author), then this description of the book should be good enough
>for you.  So start looking.

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

	Typing Nizkor into the prompt box of say, Webcrawler, then clicking
"Nizkor Home Page" is a URL.  Once into Nizkor and clicking up say,
"HWEB Project" is atoumatically clicking up a URL.  To cite any of
these is to cite a URL.  See "Nizkor" alt.rev. Tom Moran 8:08
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Nov 30 19:11:45 PST 1995
Article: 14448 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.kigam.re.kr!news.hncnet.co.kr!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where are the URLs?
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:00:04 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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	Well Nizkor tells us, if your getting into "most modern webbrowsers"
you can "simply click the link" 
	Say Webcrawler - type in "Nizkor" which will bring up "The query
'"Nizkor"' found 18 documents ...". The list of the 18 appears below
with "Nizkor Home Page" appearing at the top of the list. You click
this "link"  and this will bring you to "Nikor Home Page".  The URL
will appear at the top. If you don't have the URL for the next "link"
simply click the highlighted "The Shofar FTP Archive". The URL will
appear at the top. Then there are other "links" such as The HWEB
Project", "The FAQs", "The Rue Project". The only way you can get a
URL via Nizkor is to click the "link" first. But then of course it is
too late, you don't need one, your there. In fact through this process
you don't get any URLs until you do click a "link".  In fact Nizkor
states "...it easiest for you simply to use the FTP-accessing software
built into most modern web browsers."  
	So what is all this 'Where are the URLs' the Holocausterclones have
been demanding before responding to Tom Moran's "Nizkor invite
accepted"? The simplest theory is evasion. They want you to have to
type out those long URL addresses instead of the method that
computerism has evolved into to avoid this and which they themselves
tout.
	And to think - these people are the prosecutors.
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:08 PST 1995
Article: 14610 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pqoo$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <49e5he$983@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>
>>	A number of times in this thread respondants for the Holocaust
>>prosecution have evaded responding to explicit elements of the Nizkor
>>page posted, by copping 'Where are the URLs?'

>     It's obvious Mr. Moran has not read the book with the picture of the 
>punk girl on the cover.


>>	The evidence is all there in the origional post, they are supplied.

>    Announcing an absolute conclusion, another #4.

	Absolute statement immediately confirmable.

>>	Thus if you should go to say "Webcrawler", type in Nizkor, a list of
>>sites come up where you might find Nizkor. Then you go to Nizkor, and
>>the home page comes up with a list of subjects. Of course most people
>>know that if the subject is underlined and colored all you have to do
>>is click that, say HWEB, which in turn will incite your rig to make a
>>connection to that function. The URL is really hidden behind the name,
>>which is confirmed when the lengthy URL address appears at the bottom.
>>
>>	So what is all the demanding for URLs? Evasion. 

>    Another absolute conclusion.  No, it would be tolerable (though still
>less convenient) if you gave the exact list of clicks you made, in the
>order you made them, starting from the Nizkor home page, quoting exactly
>the underlined and colored text at every point.  However, I haven't seen
>you do this either.  Pieces are still missing.  Once you click HWEB, 
>where do you go from there?

	Okay I'll change "Evasion". to  'Theory? Evasion'.  
Well at least it seems like Michael has dropped the, where are the
URLs and has come around to reality.


>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:10 PST 1995
Article: 14611 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>> Can you understand basic English?
>> 
>> I asked you what gas chamber were you talking about. Do you know
>> which gas chamber were you talking about? Yes or no?
>> 

>Danny, 

>Aside from Moran's (lack) of English skills, I _really_ don't think he has
>the slightest clue what he was talking about. Honest. 

>He simply prattles like a parrot. With about as much comprehension it seems.  

	Thanks for more material for the up coming 'The Best of Van Alstine'.

>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:10 PST 1995
Article: 14612 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:18 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pqp5$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes to Ken McVay...

>>	You seem like the guy who should know, besides Keren.  Where can I
>>find any photos of alleged gas chambers for mass extermination capable
>>of killing millions and ovens capable of disposing of the bodies that
>>might have been presented at the Nuremburg Trials? 

>    Lets just say, hypothetically, that there are no photos of the gas
>    chambers taken prior to the end of the war while the chambers would
>    have been functional.  Then what?

	Then I might have suspicions on the fairness of he Nuremburg Trials.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:11 PST 1995
Article: 14613 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:22 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <49pqp9$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48d89n$t20@zippy.cais.net> <48oieo$dfj@zippy.cais.net> <497f9n$djn@zippy.cais.net> <4987ul$fka@news.ccit.arizona.edu> <49i4a7$r7b@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199523002571@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> 
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <29NOV199523002571@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) writes:

>>>       Danny No.13 is to be amended to read, 'Respond with or abet a culinary
>>>recipe as a response.'  The update tally is now (12). You say you
>>>"missed the recipes". Your not telling the truth, Danny.

>>    I note you are calling me a liar here.  I ask for either evidence I am
>>    lying, or an apology.

>>    If you search back you will see (I am certain) that I have never
>>    commented on a post with a recipe nor have I ever included recipe text
>>    in one of my posts.

>>    I do acknowledge that subsequest to posting the quoted text above
>>    (where I spelled recipes wrong) that I did see a post by John Morris (I
>>    believe) taking credit for posting recipes.  I have still yet to see a
>>    post in these threads that contains a recipe.

>>    I also ask, amused to no end, what "abet[ting] a culinary recipe" could
>>    possibly mean?  And I assert, based on this charge, that you are
>>    absolutely loony.

>>    I mean, I have been accused of alot of things in my time, but THIS IS
>>    THE VERY FIRST TIME IN USENET THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN ACCUSED OF ABETTING
>>    A RECIPE!!!!

>>    Oh, and Yale is probably rolling on the floor at you for this one.


>He's not the only one.

>Am I not the only one to be happy that Moran is not in the position to make 
>any laws?  Notice what he did; when Mr Mittleman pointed out he had made no 
>posts that qualified for Moran's #13, and subsequent to Mr Morris pointing 
>out that he was responsible and almost no one else, Mr Moran retroactively 
>changed #13 so he could assign it to more people.

>How wonderfully fascist of you!  One of the priciples of law is that it is 
>not retroactively applied:  if you suddenly make snoring an indictable 
>offense you cannot charge me for doing it before the law came into effect 
>because when I did it it was not illegal.  

>What is amusing is that this particular defense is used by Nazi apologists 
>to insist that Nuremburg was illegal.  That is a matter for lawyers of whom 
>I am not one but it highlights yet another pot-kettle-black aspect of the 
>denier clones.

>Aiding and abetting a recipe, eh?  Book him, Danno.

	I am certainly glad you are not in the position in our court rooms as
a prosecutor. I can see you now, citing a recipe in your closing
statement to evade commenting on the points of the case.
	
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:12 PST 1995
Article: 14614 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor-Debra-Quote
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:26 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <49pqpd$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
References: <499s1t$26g@zippy.cais.net> <49a3ub$8p4@access2.digex.net> <49bleo$iil@kaiwan.kaiwan.com>  
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article , t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH
>MURRAY) wrote:

>> In article <49bleo$iil@kaiwan.kaiwan.com> jwccti1@kaiwan.com (Jim
>Collier) writes:
>> 
>> >Moran really thinks he's a master baiter.  He's minor league, IMHO.  
>> 
>> I don't know.  I think he is a master baiter. Although with all the master 
>> baiting I don't see how he has the time to read.  

>Comic books. Only requires one hand. };-> 

>> And if he does, do the pages of the books get sticky?

>Only if reads with his "books" at arm's length. };-> 

	Huh. A few more examples from the master biters.

>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:13 PST 1995
Article: 14615 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What Language is Moran Speaking?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:31 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <49pqpi$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
References:  <4955tc$s9s@zippy.cais.net> <498c2a$cnj@access2.digex.net> <49fd10$lhe@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199521552512@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49fd10$lhe@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>>>    "Riant" is an extremely obscure English word.  It's a rather common 
>>>French word, however.  What language did you first speak, Mr. Moran?

>>	You better write all the dictionaries and tell them to cut it from
>>their next editions. If it's so obscure, why is it there?

>    As Yale said, Tommy, we are laughing at you - not with you.  And I
>    have admit the above line got me laughing out loud.

	Danny, try not use the "we" term, it signifies something. And your not
supposed to be laughing, its "inappropiate".  Didn't you read Michael
Steins post?

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:14 PST 1995
Article: 14616 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Moran gets one right!
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:37 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <49pqpt$m5f@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48h0ee$ekq@zippy.cais.net>  <26NOV199522463581@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <49ibp5$egs@access5.digex.net> <29NOV199523141666@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49ibp5$egs@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes...

>>[many lines of pointlessly included text deleted]
>> 
>>    However, since you flushed my emails unread, you apparently did not
>>see the one where I advised you that it is considered very rude to include
>>lots of text that you are not commenting on and which are not needed to
>>help people understand the context of the discussion. 

>    Its not quite this simple, Mike.  Those many lines of text you refer to
>    above were examples I pasted from on-line style manuals demonstrating
>    that Tommy's complaints about underlining lack basis.  I provided for
>    Tommy something even better than citations (though I gave him that
>    too): I provided him with direct information out of standard style
>    guides.  And, as you not above, he merely let all of it pass without
>    addressing it.

	I missed this Danny. Where did you post these "guide lines"? I think
the record shows that a number of times the defense has been to cite
underlining as a common thing when giving titles or in lieu of italics
and Michael's inclusion above is another. I ask how many times one
would see underlining in general publications outside of these
examples. I beleive the record shows that alt. Holocausterclonic
practice to be concentrated on stressing other words.
	It would take very little work to compile a righteous list of examples
to show that Holocausterclonery practice of stressing is not
restricted to the specifications cited above. The above would be the
exception. 

	I never told Michael Stein I "fulushed" hsi e-mail. I said I stored it
to a:/. Do he think I would trash such a record of Holocausterclonery?

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 08:12:14 PST 1995
Article: 14617 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran - Hypocrite at large
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 13:26:49 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49i4b2$r7b@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>[brief description of the Grand Canyon deleted]

>Now pay attention Mr Moran because I find this very amusing.

	Well here you have done it again, Morrison. You have posted a reply
away from the responded to post which was in itself posted away from
the inital beginning of the discussion. Now, again I'm asking you, why
do you do that Morrison? My theory is you have done it to make it more
difficult for any followers of the discussion to follow the course of
the discussion. Do you have anything to offer to challenge this
theory? 

>1. You have provided a description of the standard theory of the formation 
>of the Grand Canyon, which explains what you can see (ie the theory supports 
>the evidence)

	I had to read this over a couple of times as I couldn't believe what I
was reading. First a brief recap. Josh Klein "Holocausterclonism"
10:22 ask me if I ever read any "scholarly" books. I replied with a
list of subjects I am a connoiseur of, one being, geology. You jumped
in with Hah,hah "Geology? Did he say geology? Alright, someone to talk
with! So what journals do you read in geology? _Geology_ is alright
but I prefer_Geochemica and Cosmochemica Acta_,_Icarus_ and so on.
Geotectonics_is not too bad either."
	Eventually after a little more of this and a defense of over
stressification by Holocausterclones, you finished "Then you obviously
do not read very many journals".
	I responded under the same article heading, 8:07, "Your right, I
don't. I read mostly general topic ... college fundemental, Roadside
Geology books, ... taken courses ... field trips ..." and then wound
up saying  I can go anywhere, look at just about anything geological
and tell you what happened, what is happening and what is going to
happen."
	You then responded under a new article posting "Moran-Geologist at
Large" 11/28 stating "My what hubris. I have professors who do not
make that claim. As to what is going to happen, give me a freakin'
break. Almost no professional geologist would ever make that claim
that they can see into the future."
	I then responded with a summary of what the landscape at the Grand
Canyon underwent, what it is undergoing and what it will probably look
like in the future to support my statement on past, present and
future, and now you are here, now saying, I have "provided a
discription of the standard theory ...".  A good debater should keep
track of any previous statements, Morrison.
        Your parentheses is ass backwards from what I said and what
the "standard theory" derives its conclusions from. The evidence
supports the theory. The evidence came first, the theory followed. 
	Now recall where I told you I wasn't impressed or cowed by your
"flurry of intellectualism" as reproduced above. Go show this whole
sequence of exchanges to your professors. In fact post their names and
I will send a copy.

>2. You have not, on the other hand, mentioned any of the creationist 
>theories the supposedly explain away what you see in the Canyon.  Thus you 
>accept the generally accepted view.

	Show me where this "creationist" topic you have inserted was included
or inferred in the initial onset of the discussion.  
	Morrison if you want to discuss this "creationist theory", lets take
it someplace else.  Its a big tangent from the discussion at hand. But
I would be very interested in hearing this "theory" applied to the
Grand Canyon.

>3. You have cited textbooks, field trips and so on.  These are written by 
>established members of the academic community. 

>4. You have stated your disbelief in the standard theory of the Holocaust, 
>said theory which explains the evidence that is available.

>5. You have implied that you do not believe the generally accepted view on 
>the Holocaust.

>6. By holding this position, you are ignoring or dismissing work done by 
>established members of the academic community.


>So why is it, Mr Moran, you hold one viewpoint when it refers to geology and 
>the exact opposite when it refers to the Holocaust?  Hmmm?

	Morrison, instead of going through your steps "3.","4.","5." and "6.",
you could have just come out and ask straight out,  'How is it that
Tom Moran holds to the conclusions of geology and not believe in the
Holocaust story as proposed by "established members of the academic
community".  Isn't that what you are trying to say?
	I find the generally accepted theories of geology to be quite self
evident on direct observation of extant evidence. Of course we can not
expect the same ease of comprehension as to assertions of human
history, and I would not be so stupid or unfair to relate the two
fields as holding equal capabilities for assertaining the facts.  If
this was held to be correct the Holocaust story would not be pressed
at this time, judging by what they have now. On the other hand, if a
thorough investigation of any assertions made by Holocaust prosecution
at this time was done while extant evidence should have been in
existance, at or near the time it was said to have happened, the story
would never have developed to what it is now proposed to be, I would
theorize.
					
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca

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