From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:10 PST 1995
Article: 14625 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:56 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pved$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49klec$95l@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        "...a troll".  Thank you Danny.

>How much you want to bet he has no idea of what trolling is?  Given his 
>tacit admission of ignorance about Internet and Usenet standards this would 
>not suprise me in the least.

	Morrison, your right, I don't know the connection between  "... a
troll" and Internet, Usenet "standards".  Lets here it. 

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:11 PST 1995
Article: 14626 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:58 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pveg$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48d89n$t20@zippy.cais.net> <48oieo$dfj@zippy.cais.net> <497f9n$djn@zippy.cais.net> <4987ul$fka@news.ccit.arizona.edu> <49i4a7$r7b@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199523002571@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49i4a7$r7b@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>I am curious.  Is there a point to the list you are building?  Are you
>>>partaking in some sort of sports statistics?  Are you developing proof
>>>for some sort of hypothesis?  If the latter, pray tell, what might
>>>this hypothesis be?

>    I note that you does not answer these questions.

>>>>> 13. Respond with a culinary recipe.(8)
>> 
>>>I must have missed the recipies.  I'm amused as to what that could
>>>have been :>
>> 
>>	Danny No.13 is to be amended to read, 'Respond with or abet a culinary
>>recipe as a response.'  The update tally is now (12). You say you
>>"missed the recipes". Your not telling the truth, Danny.

>    I note you are calling me a liar here.  I ask for either evidence I am
>    lying, or an apology.

>    If you search back you will see (I am certain) that I have never
>    commented on a post with a recipe nor have I ever included recipe text
>    in one of my posts.

	Did I say you "commented on" a recipe, or did I say you '"missed
the recipes".
>    I do acknowledge that subsequest to posting the quoted text above
>    (where I spelled recipes wrong) that I did see a post by John Morris (I
>    believe) taking credit for posting recipes.  I have still yet to see a
>    post in these threads that contains a recipe.

	Danny, commit "Nizkor invite accepted" to a program that can word
search, enter 'recipe'. I would like to make life easy for you, but I
think you should have to excercise some of that research capacity that
is boasted of out here.  Did I say the culinary recipe tally is (12)?
Maybe it's only (11). You could catch me in a faus pax.

>    I also ask, amused to no end, what "abet[ting] a culinary recipe" could
>    possibly mean?  And I assert, based on this charge, that you are
>    absolutely loony.

	It means sneaking some hot pepper into your mother's stew when she's
not looking.

>    I mean, I have been accused of alot of things in my time, but THIS IS
>    THE VERY FIRST TIME IN USENET THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN ACCUSED OF ABETTING
>    A RECIPE!!!!

	ALL KIDDING ASIDE: It means saying 'Here,here' when someone responds
to a question with a culinary recipe, that has been posed to a
Holocaust prosecutor.

>    Oh, and Yale is probably rolling on the floor at you for this one.

	Danny, did I say this before? You should find a better mentor than
Yale. Read his stuff. 
\
>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:12 PST 1995
Article: 14627 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pveo$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199521364084@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <49k3ic$146u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>>In article <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...

>[lots of questions that Mr. Moran could research for himself]

>>    In the beginning of your posting run lo about six or eight weeks ago, I
>>    and others made an honest attempt to address your questions.

>>    At this point in time I think it is much more appropriate simply to
>>    ask, "why do you want to know?"

>An equally appropriate question might be, "what did your last research
>assistant die of?"

>Judging fom Mr. Moran's responses to date, it is likely that he wants
>someone to look up all the numbers for him so that he can either
>assert that any documents cited are forged, or ask how the documents
>have been verified, and so on. If Mr. Moran wishes to challenge the
>historiography of the Holocaust, he can do his own research and then
>post his challenge.
>--

	Does this mean you are not ready to supply the full story?

> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:12 PST 1995
Article: 14628 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49hvdn$q7t@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        
>>        of the universe.

>Not even close, Moran my friend.  There have been threads in newsgroups that 
>have lasted many times longer than I have seen you here.  I recall the 
>"flying feral chicken" thread on talk.origins (don't ask) went on for months.
>Actually anything on t.o. usually lasts for months, then just gets recycled 
>by Ted Holden and they start all over again.

>Sort of like here.

	Okay, I'll change it to 'Tom Moran musters the longest threads in the
history of alt.rev.'

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:13 PST 1995
Article: 14629 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tedious Tommy (Was Re: Argumentum ad populum)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:10 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net

>	Hilary, could you reiterate something one more time. I stated I
>recognized your name from editorials in the L.A.Times, under your name
>(Nizkor invite accepted, 11/13). You said you never wrote any
>editorials for the L.A.Times (11/14). I then ask "Was it the
>N.Y.Times?" (11/15). and you then replied (11/16) that "...to the best
>of my knowledge ..." you never had any editorials published in any
>major publication.  Did you ever submit any writings to either paper?
>If yes, would you have us believe you would not know if they were
>published or not?

	Maybe it's the "flakey service".





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:14 PST 1995
Article: 14630 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran-Geologist at Large (was Re: Holocausterclonism)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <49pvev$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  
>>  >>        Your right, I don't. I read mostly general topic geology books, many
>>  >>authors, College 'fundementals' of geology books, many authors,
>>  >>"Roadside Geology of ..." books, I've taken it in college, five
>>  >>courses, I've been on a number of field trips, I can go any where,
>>  >>look at just about anything geological and tell you what happened,
>>  >>what is happening and what is going to happen. 
>>  
>>
>>  	Now Morrison, you should have posted this where it all started,
>>  instead of down here away isolated from it. Now why did you do that?
>>  	Show where I said anything about "everything". I believe I used the
>>  word "general".
>> 
>	Show me where the word "general" refers to your abilities; it refers 
>only to the scope of the books you read.  By the way "down here away isolated 
> from it." violates rules 14, 16, 17, and 18.  Congratulations.  Most poor writers 
>require at least a full sentence to break that many rules.

	Poor Yale, he's doing the best he can.

>	--YFE





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:14 PST 1995
Article: 14631 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:21 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <49pvf7$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48oigj$dfj@zippy.cais.net>  <49jf7u$4pc@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <49l0r3$c0k@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <49ls3s$idu@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <49l0r3$c0k@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>>>Perhaps Mr. Moran will educate himself by pointing his browser
>>>to the URL

>>>ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/d/damjanjuk.john

>>Certain that Mr. Moran will spend the next four months asking why you
>>"lied" about the URL, I offer the following correction:

>>  ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/d/demjanjuk.john

>Thank you, John - Mike Stein also pointed out the error, but I
>doubt Mr. Moran would have noticed.. he hasn't seemed too
>terribly interested in factual reality these days...

	Maybe you would like to point out some particulars to support your
statement here. If not then it is only a blank statement. Don't
forget, your one of the 'official' prosecutors out here. 
	Court manuals will tell you that a opening statement or a closing
statement is very important to establish credibility with the jury. 

>-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec  2 10:53:15 PST 1995
Article: 14634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the URLs?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:46:24 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>>     I would say that the simplest theory is that Tom Moran is an
>> egocentrically insane idiot who expects people to be able to read his mind
>> and know what links he clicked even though he didn't give the complete
>> list. 

>That would be the theory I subscribe to.
>
	Don't forget, Jamie, you have taken on the role of a major prosecutor.
Now start behaving like you are in court. Your up in front of the jury
and it is not very professional to say 'Here,here' to shouts from the
peanut gallery. Anyway, thanks for the ammunition for the summary. 
-- 
> Jamie McCarthy   jamie@voyager.net   http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> I speak only for myself.           Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless otherwise specified, I consider pro-"revisionism" email public domain




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 08:34:11 PST 1995
Article: 14753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Tom Moran's Secret
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:32 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49pvdn$mu4@zippy.cais.net>
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	How does Tom Moran do it?  Do what?  Keep track of the
inconsistancies, Holocausterclonisms, lies, foot in mouths,
unresponded to posts, etc.
	First you take a piece of lined paper. Legal size is best. Especially
if you have a swarm of Holocausterhornets after you. You then want to
create four vertical columns, the first about 40 cm wide, then one 15
cm, another 10 cm. Then draw one 15 cm wide at the right side, which
leaves you a wide column in the middle.
	Now the first column is for the name of the article(s) you are
following. Write in the name of the first article that has been
updated and underline it. Then click the thread and retrieve the first
new addition. Now below the underlined article title write in the name
of the person who wrote the thread component. Then in the next column
write in the date and time.
	Procede with this until you have clicked up and retrieved all articles
and threads. This will reduce online time. Now go off line and return
to the top of your paper list and begin to review the articles and
threads you have listed.
	As you read the response, enter in any absurd points,
characterisitics, points of similarities you recognize etc. into the
wide column in the middle.
	Now say you want to keep track of say, Holocausterclonisms. Once you
recognize one you can give it a numerical code. You notate the code in
th center column. You can also put in notes on the contents that you
recognize as inconsistent etc. for easy referrence down the road.
	You can also notate in the thin column at the right whether or not you
have gotten a response to something. Of course this you will have to
do in retrospect. The other thin column next to the date column is to
notate whether or not you have responded to it and put in save for
future posting.
	There is one more element that is of tremendous importance. This is
the secret. One clue can be parabled with an old time naval movie,
"Run Silent, Run Deep". In this movie Clark Gable plays the captain of
a submarine and Burt Lancaster plays the part of next in command.
They are going to the Bongo Straights to engage a dreaded Japanese
destroyer that is believed to be sinking American ships, the Kazimoto.
When they get there and start to prowl the waters looking to get the
jump on it, which they having been vigorously training to sink with a
straight on bow shot, the electronic detection crewmwn begins to pick
up a strange signal. He keeps saying "What is that sir, I can't make
it out?", "What is that sir, I can't make it out?"
       As it turns out, in addition to Kazimoto, which could be
likened to a computer, the Japanese also had a submarine that followed
it around, and it was the one that was really sinking all the American
ships. There in lies the secret.














From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 08:34:12 PST 1995
Article: 14754 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:42 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49i49n$r7b@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>> 
>>>1. THE DEMJANJUK APPEAL
>>>   SUMMARY BY ASHER FELIX LANDAU
>>>   Jerusalem, July 29, 1993
>> 
>>>   Israel Information Service Gopher
>>>   Information Division              
>>>   Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem
>>>   Mail all Queries to: ask@israel-info.gov.il
>> 
>>	Not for one nano-second would I accept anything out of Israel as a
>>full account.  

>    Why would that be?  What do you posit is missing?  And why do you posit
>    this?

	I have observed too many things out of Isreal and about Israel that in
my opinion is nothing more than chutzpah. Chutzpah is not a word I
made up. It is process of mind taught within the Jewish community. I
will give just a few examples here and now, I could go on for days. I
have followed the course of Zionism very closely for years. Every now
and then we will see a sizable ad in the N.Y. Times touting Israel.
One of them claimed that the Jews have planted 200,000,000 trees, in
an effort to have the readers think that Isreal is big on enviroment.
This would come out to about one tree for every two square feet. How
in the hell can you walk around in Israel? Another is the practice of
having their "Enviromental Minister" be the source for comment on the
political events. Recently they had their "3,000 year birthday"
commemorating the Hebrew assault on Jeruselem, a rediculous premise.
The world had the same opinion. They were invited. No one went. 

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 08:34:13 PST 1995
Article: 14755 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Argumentum ad populum
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:44 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In message <49e6g8$r6k@shiva.usa.net> - hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) writes
>:
>:>
>:>In article <4955ua$s9s@zippy.cais.net>,
>:>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>:>
>:>	Astually the more I read of these response the more
>:>	I entertain a theory you don't believe it in your
>:>	sub-conscious.  And, the more I entertain the theory
>:>	you are morally corrupt.
>:>
>:>This from a man who has yet to offer any evidence whatsoever to back
>:>up his irrational spleen against Jews and Judaism!  He questions the
>:>honest research of another, while condemning a whole people based on
>:>his personal interpretation of the words, "few" and "similar!"
>:>
>:>All this demonstrates is that Mr. Moran has no clue whatsoever as to
>:>the meaning of the term "morally corrupt!"

	Morally, you will never see me justifying the slaughter of children,
whereas the Jewish community has a righteous documented record of the
practice.
	What do you have to say about the historically documented record that
Israel has and has had a policy of shooting down children for throwing
stones?

>All this demonstrates that Mr. Moran has no clue at all, Harry.



>--
>Gord McFee
>"I'll write no line before its time"





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 08:34:13 PST 1995
Article: 14756 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Argumentum ad populum
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:52 GMT
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jean-francois beaulieu  wrote:

>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>> In article <48q6g4$pf6@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> >dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>> >>In article <48g4rp$8m9@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> 
>> >>>	Notice that I use the word "theory" when stating certain things and
>> >>>you make absolute statements.
>> > 
>> >>    Yes, I noticed.  What of it?
>> > 
>> >	You need to be led by the hand all the way. "What of it?"  At least I
>> >avoid professing the absolute.
>> 
>>     I only profess things to be absolute when I am quite sure of them.  I
>>     am quite sure of the *fact* of the Holocaust because:
>> 
>>     1. Every accredited WWII and Jewish Studies Historian in the world
>>     accepts the Holocaust as fact;

>    ...and those who don't loose their jobs, are victims of arsons,
>    are jail or sue in law....

	This is fact.
>> 
>>     2. There are *no* competing hypotheses circulating among these
>>     accredited Historians to explain the trace evidence of the Holocaust;
>> 

>  ?????
>>     3. I came to alt.revisionism in the Spring of 1993 from the newsgroup
>>     sci.skeptic looking to see if there was any legitimate and defensible
>>     argument against the reality of the Holocaust - I have seen dozens of
>>     deniers try to make such arguments - I have seen none of those
>>     arguments hold up against the documentation and the logic presented by
>>     the archivists.
>> 

>  
>   Strange, I read dozens of revisionnist or anti-revisionnist
>   studies on paper and I have the opposite impression. 

>>     I am left with the conclusion that there is no legitimate argument
>>     against the reality of the Holocaust and therefor the Holocaust is a
>>     fact.
>> 
>>     That is an absolute.  I am comfortable with it.  I will continue to
>>     entertain arguments that I am wrong and if someday a solid argument is
>>     presented I will reconsider my assertion.  But as time goes on and I
>>     learn more, I more and more doubt that will happen.

>    I'm not concern with your 'conversion', revisionism is growing
>  slowly but increase its influence year after years. We don't
>   need laws against earth-flat theoricians. Isn't Edgard Bronfman
>   who stated a couple of months ago in a letter that 'we should
>    do anything to stop revisionnism now, before it's too late'?
>   




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 08:34:14 PST 1995
Article: 14757 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 14:45:55 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  
>>  	Hilary, do you have a doctorate in something? You write like one.
>>  
>>  
>>>>>
>	Jealous, aren't you?

	Do you have the intelligence to expand on this?

>	--YFE




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 16:31:54 PST 1995
Article: 14779 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran-Geologist at Large (was Re: Holocausterclonism)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:37:12 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49i4b2$r7b@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>In article <49e5fm$983@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>>        Your right, I don't. I read mostly general topic geology books, many
>>>>authors, College 'fundementals' of geology books, many authors,
>>>>"Roadside Geology of ..." books, I've taken it in college, five
>>>>courses, I've been on a number of field trips, I can go any where,
>>>>look at just about anything geological and tell you what happened,
>>>>what is happening and what is going to happen. 


>>>My what hubris.  I have professors who do not make that claim.  And as to 
>>>what is going to happen, give me a freakin' break.  Almost no professional 
>>>geologist would ever make the claim that they can forsee the future.

>>>If you think that five courses and a few field trips make you knowledgeable 
>>>on geology, grow up.  I've spent four years, two field schools, have worked 
>>>with industry and government over the summers and have studied under one of 
>>>the world's foremost structural geologists and I wouldn't even think of 
>>>making the claim that I knew everything, or even almost everything.

>>        Now Morrison, you should have posted this where it all started,
>>instead of down here away isolated from it. Now why did you do that?
>>        Show where I said anything about "everything". I believe I used the
>>word "general".


>No, in message <49e5fm$983@zippy.cais.net> (which you thoughtfully included 
>above) you said, and I quote, "...I can go any where, look at just about 
>anything geological and tell you want happened, what is happening and what 
>is going to happen."

>This is a tacit statement that you can go anywhere and know almost everthing 
>about the area.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with the sentence wherein 
>you used the word "general".



>>        Lets use a obvious example for easy referrence. The Grand Canyon area.
>>Are you telling me that I can't drive around this area and say 'Look
>>theres the canyon. Look at the stratification. This is the result of
>>deposition of sediments when the land was much lower and inundated
>>with water. Eventually the land began to rise. Stream beds appeared
>>and began to cut into the rising land. As the process of uplift
>>continued so did the erosion of the stream beds.  In the beginning
>>there was a dendritic pattern and this would account for the deep cuts
>>leading into the main channel known as the Colorado River. Theres the
>>general past. 
>>        I could further say that this process of erosion is still continuing
>>at this time.  From this I could say that the width and the depth of
>>the cuts are widening. From this I refer to the present.  I could
>>further say that this process will coninue and draw likely scenarios
>>of what the land will look like in the future, something like Monument
>>Valley.  Of course cataclysmic events could happen that might upset
>>this scenario for the future, but it would have to be super. 
>>        Naturally we could go into the dynamics further as to any associated
>>features such as igneous activity, mass wasting, composition of the
>>layers, the reasons for there various colors and a myriad of other
>>considerations.
>>        As to those other geologists you refer to, I'd bet they give basically
>>the same recap on past, present and future, which would leave you the
>>odd man out.


>I stand corrected.  I was imprecise as to what I meant.  Does this merit a 
>new holocausterclonism?  Admitting Mistakes?

>The Grand Canyon is not "anywhere".  The Grand Canyon is recognized as being 
>a very special place, geologically speaking.  What you have said is 
>equivalent to stating that you know a great deal about physics and when 
>asked what you know you reply with "The atom is composed of the neutron, 
>electron and proton which are composed of quarks with a weak and strong 
>force involved."  That does not give any evidence you know anything else 
>about physics.  The Grand Canyon example you cited provides no evidence you 
>know anything about geology.  Everything you said can be read by anyone with 
>a tourist brochure from the park.

>You said "anywhere".  So provide an example that is not a tourist trap and 
>would have all this information on glossy brochures.  You have admitted that 
>much of your knowledge comes from the Roadside Geology books.  I'd expect
>that you could parrot most of the information contained therein but geology, 
>or any science, involves the use of knowledge to investigate new areas that 
>are not well known.

>So tell me about other places.  The Dead Sea, for example.  What is it?  How 
>about Death Valley?  The Caspian Sea?  How does erosion account for places 
>below sea level?
	
	The Dead Sea and Death Valley have something in common as to their
dynamics. They are or were undergoing tensor stress. Pulled apart. The
over all influence on this is tectonics, with this being the localized
effecvt of orogenies.  This is the basic reason why they are below sea
level. Erosion fits into this process by adding weight to the base. I
would say these processes will hit some kind of equalribrium and the
adjacent mountains will wear down and the valley will fill up, and it
will be a flatish area. Then it will be high enough where a break in
the southern end will facilitate a stream to form.  There is no
erosion as to the base levels of either at this time. They are below
sea level, therefore they can not have run of. This is why the Dead
Sea is called dead. The salts and alkalides runs into it from
surrounding elevations, the water evaporates, the materials stay
behind in solution to such a concentration it is inhabitable to
average life forms. The reason there is water in the Dead Sea and not
in Death Valley is because of the size of feed areas and the amount of
average rain fall indigious to the areas.
	Of course there are many other dynamics at work.	 

>Why is the oldest ocean crust only about 180 million years old?

	The ocean is splitting apart. New material is forming at fissures at
the centers and pushing it basically east west. 

>What is so special about the Sudbury, Ontario, structure?

	I don't know. Is it part of the Canadian Shield?
What do you know about the big rock 5 miles east of Kabul,
Afghanistan?
>        
>>>I would love to see you in some of the areas I've worked and then try and 
>>>tell me you knew what was going on.  I personally know geologists who have 
>>>worked in areas for over 20 years and they can't agree what is happening.  
>>>So excuse me if I give a little chuckle when you make your claim.

>>        If your talking 'exactly' they probably don't know. If your talking
>>'generally' i'd say yes.


>Oh give me a break.  If I dropped you in the middle of the Bathust, New 
>Brunswick mining camp and showed you some outcrops I can almost guarantee 
>you'd have nothing constructive to say.  Oh sure, "The rocks were folded" 
>is a general statement but too general to be useful for anything. 

	Well this is certainly a problem. I could say, Hey, Morrison, I'll
meet you in Phoenix and we'll take a little ride and discuss geology.
You could take me to the above and there I give you a run down. How
would you know I didn't look it up first?

>>>By the way, what were the courses?  Structural, economic, rock mechanics, 
>>>geotectonic, historical, sedimentary, paleontological, geophysics, 
>>>geochemistry, isotopic, mineralogical, metamorphic, igneous?  That's my 
>>>basic course load.  What did you take?

>>        All of the above, generally.
          ----------------------------

	Morrison, how would I know whether or not you just didn't look your
above listing up in a book?

>In *5* courses?  What college?  I would love to see the curriculum.  When I 
>talk about igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary I am talking about seperate 
>courses that deal specifically with these topics.  As for geophysics, spare 
>me.  Rock mechanics?  Give me a break.  Better yet, give me proof.

	Proof of what?

	The only proof available at this very time is your denying that my
statements about past, present and future as to analysing geological
formations was wrong and your subsequent referrence to "standard
theory" and your additional statements above that my summary can be
found in those "glossy brochures" in tourist traps.

	The next time I'm in Phoenix, maybe we can get together and take a
videoed field trip. 
	Or the next time your in the L.A. area we can do it here.
	How do you have time for your studies, what with all this alt.rev.
stuff?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec  3 16:31:55 PST 1995
Article: 14780 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:37:44 GMT
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <49pvf7$mu4@zippy.cais.net>, 
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>>>>  ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/people/d/demjanjuk.john

>>>Thank you, John - Mike Stein also pointed out the error, but I
>>>doubt Mr. Moran would have noticed.. he hasn't seemed too
>>>terribly interested in factual reality these days...

>>	Maybe you would like to point out some particulars to support your
>>statement here. If not then it is only a blank statement. Don't
>>forget, your one of the 'official' prosecutors out here. 

>I "prosecute" no-one, Mr. Moran. Let's stick to history, shall
>we? You have made comments, and asked questions, about files
>on my server. Although you have been asked, repeatedly, to
>provide the URLs for those files, you have refused to do so.

	Look again McVay, I did not specify one single "file" in "Nizkor
invite accepted". 

>>	Court manuals will tell you that a opening statement or a closing
>>statement is very important to establish credibility with the jury. 

>My credibilty is not the issue, Mr. Moran, your questions
>about the Auschwitz files are. That being the case, one can
>only ponder your inability, or refusal perhaps, to provide the
>URLs.....

>...or, of course, the answer to that other nagging question:
>"Which camp, Mr. Moran?"

	

	Which camp? The one that was cited as being covered in the Cole film,
later identified as "Auschwitz". Which building? The one in covered in
the Cole film. The one identified as being built half way below
ground.  Thanks for the example.

>-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 06:56:56 PST 1995
Article: 14863 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:55:49 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>A.  Holocausterclonism

>>>Keep an eye out for these points of similarity committed by
>>>Holocauster peers.
>	The numbers inside the () indicate the numbers of times the particular
>clone practice has been committed in alt.rev postings under; "Nizkor
>invite accepted" - "Big Question unanswered" - "WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS"
>- "Argumentum ad populum" - "Boasted Holocaust" - "Nuremburg, Douglas"
>- Nuremburg, Eisenhower" - "Tom Moran is ..." - To:Holocausterclonism"
>- "Holocausterclonism" - "To:Holocausterclonism"

	New update, 11/28
>>>1. Nitpicking  grammar, spelling, all in the same sentence
>of the committing the same. (36)   >>
>  2. Accenting words and phrases with those little _ s and * s.(140)
>>>3. Giving each other rave reviews.(6)
>>>4. Announcing absolute conclusions.(47) 
>>>5. Sending e-mail that says its been posted and it never shows up.(17)
>>>6. Dubbing; "Neo-Nazis", "skinheads", "racists", etc.(5)
>>>7. Citing one exception out of many to make a point.(4)
>> 8. Citing quantities as relevant to proof.(6)
>  9. Delay posting after sending e-mail. Blame it on "flakey
>service".(7) >
>  10. Respond for another.(26)
>  10a. Jump in to support another's response.(32)> 
>  11  Make snide little remarks.(64)
>  11a. Call derogatory names.(22)
>  12. Cite a persons title, or profess that title is relevant to
>>proof.(17)
>> 13. Respond with a culinary recipe.(8)
       Amendment:Respond with or abet culinary recipes as a response.
(14)
>  14. Respond to explicitly cited website locations by asking "Where
>are the URLs.(17)  
>  15. Claim they can't make out what your asking.(15)
>  16. Proclaim the repondants writing as inferior.(24)
   17. Ask which buliding one is talking about after getting a concise
description of the source coverage and eventual exact location as
requested. (11)	






From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 06:57:04 PST 1995
Article: 14952 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:28:35 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49pqp9$m5f@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        I am certainly glad you are not in the position in our court rooms as
>>a prosecutor. I can see you now, citing a recipe in your closing
>>statement to evade commenting on the points of the case.


>Please state when I posted a recipe.  Feel free to ask around.  Cite one 
>example.  Just one.  Any recipe.  Anywhere on the Net.  Anytime.

	Didn't you just come to the aid of Danny on the recipe issue? "Silence
is consent"? Commenting on an absurd response with out admitting it is
absurd is consent? What do you have to say about the posting of
recipes as a response on alt.rev.?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:07 PST 1995
Article: 14953 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:24:05 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
	"...a troll".  Thank you Danny.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:08 PST 1995
Article: 14956 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE MISSING NAMES?
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:29:26 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>	On 11/29/95 The ADL placed an ad in the N.Y.Times "If the Holocaust
>>Never Happened Where Are The 6,000,000 Jews of Europe?"  Yea, thats
>>the same question revisionists are asking.

>I know it's hard, Moron, but try reading the question again. It's the
>question "revisionists" are evading.

>>	Questions; If they don't have the names of 3,000,000 victims, how do
>>they know they are missing?  

>The Holocaust totals are obtained by various methods, but generally not by
>enumerating every single victim by name. Census figures before and after 
>were one method. Go to your library and crack open one or two standard
>references on the Holocaust, and this may become clear to you.

	Your the prosecutor, the burden of supplying the exact proof is on
you. Now name the books and the pages. In fact present the exact
material here.


>>	If the rabbi got the idea 15 years ago, why did he wait that period to
>>get the show on the road?  

>Possibly because he wasn't aware of the extent of the problem. Read 
>carefully what you included in your own message, Moron, and this will
>become clear. The rabbi knew of relatives who had died in the Holocaust,
>but he couldn't find their names in the one place where such names were
>recorded. Comparing numbers, he realized that his relatives weren't the
>only ones in this situation.

	How would we know the rabbi isn't lying? I take it by your last
sentence here you have been in touch with the rabbi?

>>	How would we be able to know the existing list of 3,000,000 names is
>>legitimate?

>How would we be able to know that the list of the signers of the 
>Declaration of Independence is genuine? Maybe Adam Weishaupt forged
>all those signatures. 
	
	This is not an answer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:09 PST 1995
Article: 14958 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!msc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:27:50 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <49stdo$bac@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49nd7b$h2k@zippy.cais.net> <49prkh$gc7@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  		
>>  	Pressac is one of the main "historians" cited by the Holocausterclone
>>  prosecutors. The number of editions published of Pressac's book is put
>>  at 1,000.  There are 5,000,000,000 in the world. That makes a ratio of
>>  one Pressac book for every 5,000,000 people.
>>  
>>  
>>>>>
>	I doubt that there were 1,000 editions of Pressac's book or
>that 5,000,000,000 were ever printed.  Do you have some documentation
>of this?

>	--YFE
	Yikes, Yale has found a technical faus pax. Thanks Yale.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:10 PST 1995
Article: 14959 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!msc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: I think we have a nominee....
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:27:54 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <49stdr$bac@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48q6et$pf6@zippy.cais.net> <49a126$2v2@zippy.cais.net>  <49i4bv$r7b@zippy.cais.net> <49igmj$isk@access5.digex.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:14959 alt.usenet.kooks:19662

mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <49i4bv$r7b@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:
>>>In article <49a126$2v2@zippy.cais.net> 
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>>>        Show me where I "asserted that everyone was killed in the camps. 
>>
>>
>>>Message id <48q6et$pf6@zippy.cais.net>  Look up about 10 lines.  "We are to 
>>>assume that all this mass killing took place at concentration camps."
>>
>>>Now, not many people have the audacity to say "Show me where I said 
>>>that!" in the same message where it is recorded what they said.  Well, 
>>>the audacity or the stupidity.  Take your pick.

>>	You didn't show me.

>    This is taking denial to a new level.  I think Tom Moran is
>auditioning for a part in the remake of Monty Python's "argument" sketch. 

	I recognize that alt. postings give certain people the opportunity to
post witty little creative 'psycobabbles', and Michael Sten is not
immune to being swept along with the herd.

>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:10 PST 1995
Article: 14960 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the URLs?
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:29:21 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <49stgi$bac@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49kr26$a9m@zippy.cais.net> <49l97k$82l@access5.digex.net>  <49pvf9$mu4@zippy.cais.net> <49q7o9$dk5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <49pvf9$mu4@zippy.cais.net>, 
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	Don't forget, Jamie, you have taken on the role of a major prosecutor.
>>Now start behaving like you are in court. Your up in front of the jury
>>and it is not very professional to say 'Here,here' to shouts from the
>>peanut gallery. Anyway, thanks for the ammunition for the summary. 

>Prosecutor? Who is Jamie McCarthy "prosecuting," Mr. Moran?
>(And what does this have to do with the convergeance of
>historical evidence?)

	He's prosecuting the same nations history you are McVay.

-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:12 PST 1995
Article: 14970 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Moran gets one right again!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 14:01:14 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <49pqq5$m5f@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:
>>	Well here you have done it again, Morrison. You have posted a reply
>>away from the responded to post which was in itself posted away from
>>the inital beginning of the discussion. Now, again I'm asking you, why
>>do you do that Morrison? My theory is you have done it to make it more
>>difficult for any followers of the discussion to follow the course of
>>the discussion. Do you have anything to offer to challenge this
>>theory? 

>    I offer as evidence the fact that I have no trouble following the 
>discussion.

	You really got my mind all twisted up with "I offer as evidence the
fact ...", but I got the general drift. Now that you have admitted you
have followed it, what do you think about Morrison's saying "Give me a
freakin' break, I know profressors who would not make such a claim",
as to my stating I can dope out the past, present and future from
looking at a geological situation, and then, after I offered him an
example for this, he comes back with saying I have offered a "standard
theory" that can be found in any "glossy brochure"?

	Also, what do you think, did Morrison know all this before he made his
"Give me a freakin' break ..." statement, or after?
	
	How about it Morrison, you want to answer this?

>>>1. You have provided a description of the standard theory of the formation 
>>>of the Grand Canyon, which explains what you can see (ie the theory supports 
>>>the evidence)

>[snip]

>>>2. You have not, on the other hand, mentioned any of the creationist 
>>>theories the supposedly explain away what you see in the Canyon.  Thus you 
>>>accept the generally accepted view.
>>
>>	Show me where this "creationist" topic you have inserted was included
>>or inferred in the initial onset of the discussion.  

>    It is a competing theory to your theory, just as you claim revisionism
>is a valid competing theory to the standard Holocaust history. 

>>>3. You have cited textbooks, field trips and so on.  These are written by 
>>>established members of the academic community. 
>>
>>>4. You have stated your disbelief in the standard theory of the Holocaust, 
>>>said theory which explains the evidence that is available.
>>
>>>5. You have implied that you do not believe the generally accepted view on 
>>>the Holocaust.
>>
>>>6. By holding this position, you are ignoring or dismissing work done by 
>>>established members of the academic community.
>>
>>
>>>So why is it, Mr Moran, you hold one viewpoint when it refers to geology and 
>>>the exact opposite when it refers to the Holocaust?  Hmmm?
>>
>>	Morrison, instead of going through your steps "3.","4.","5." and "6.",
>>you could have just come out and ask straight out,  'How is it that
>>Tom Moran holds to the conclusions of geology and not believe in the
>>Holocaust story as proposed by "established members of the academic
>>community".  Isn't that what you are trying to say?

>    Very good, Mr. Moran!  Your capacity to understand English is indeed 
>improving!

>    My theory about why he didn't is that he was afraid you were not 
>going to understand it.  This theory would be based on evidence from your 
>previous postings where you failed to understand other simple text.


>>[snip]

>    On the other hand, your writing still needs some work.  I have a 
>theory about what the paragraph I deleted means, but I wouldn't want to 
>make a #4 and wager any money about it.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:13 PST 1995
Article: 14972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Tally Thus Far
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 14:01:19 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <49v5n6$3n2@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48d89n$t20@zippy.cais.net> <48oieo$dfj@zippy.cais.net> <497f9n$djn@zippy.cais.net> <49kn9p$9ir@zippy.cais.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>>A.  Holocausterclonism

>>>>Keep an eye out for these points of similarity committed by
>>>>Holocauster peers.
>>	The numbers inside the () indicate the numbers of times the particular
>>clone practice has been committed in alt.rev postings under; "Nizkor
>>invite accepted" - "Big Question unanswered" - "WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS"
>>- "Argumentum ad populum" - "Boasted Holocaust" - "Nuremburg, Douglas"
>>- Nuremburg, Eisenhower" - "Tom Moran is ..." - To:Holocausterclonism"
>>- "Holocausterclonism" - everywhere else. 
	See below for special attachment.
	
>	New update, Dec 3, 1995
        -----------------------
>>>>1. Nitpicking  grammar, spelling, all in the same sentence
>>of the committing the same. (36)   >>
>>  2. Accenting words and phrases with those little _ s and * s.(140)
>>>>3. Giving each other rave reviews.(8)
>>>>4. Announcing absolute conclusions.(54) 
>>>>5. Sending e-mail that says its been posted and it never shows up.(17)
>>>>6. Dubbing; "Neo-Nazis", "skinheads", "racists", etc.(6)
>>>>7. Citing one exception out of many to make a point.(4)
>>> 8. Citing quantities as relevant to proof.(6)
>>  9. Delay posting after sending e-mail. Blame it on "flakey
>>service".(7) >
>>  10. Respond for another.(32)
>>  10a. Jump in to support another's response.(37)> 
>>  11  Make snide little remarks.(81)
>>  11a. Call derogatory names.(29)
>>  12. Cite a persons title, or profess that title is relevant to
>>>proof.(23)
>>> 13. Respond with a culinary recipe.(8)
>       Amendment:Respond with or abet culinary recipes as a response.
>       (14)
>>  14. Respond to explicitly cited website locations by asking "Where
>>are the URLs.(21)  
>>  15. Claim they can't make out what your asking.(17)
>>  16. Proclaim the repondants writing as inferior.(27)
>   17. Ask which buliding one is talking about after getting a concise
>description of the source coverage and eventual exact location as
>requested. (15)	
    18. "...English ..."; Tom Moran can't read it, write it or
understand it.(23)

	Attention: Due to the appearance of a new Holocausterclonic recurrant
theme, and so as not to muddle the nice compact listing of the
Holocausterclonisms, a special commentary is presented here in
relation to Holocausterclonic behavior No.2; "Accenting words and
phrases with those little _s and *s."  The new recurrant theme is to
justify the practice by stating this is common practice when giving a
title of a book or the name of a place. The number of occurances at
the end of No.2, now standing at "(140)", does not include the
components of this alibi.    

	Random House College Dictionary: Holcausterclonism; "Siamese
multituplets joined at the head." 





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:13 PST 1995
Article: 14973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 14:01:22 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49v5n7$3n2@zippy.cais.net>
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jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) wrote:

>MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY (t08o@unb.ca) wrote:
>> In article <48q6et$pf6@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>> >        One more thing. We are to assume that all this mass killing took place
>> >at concentration camps. Simon Wiesenthal list the camps under
>> >"Holocasut Glossary: Terms, Places, and Personalities."
>> >        Under "Extermination Camps" we find "Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzek,
>> >Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka."

>> No.  All this killing did *not* take place at concentration/extermination 
>> camps.  A great deal of it occurred in the field thanks to the 
>> Einsatzgruppen that ran wild over conquered countries in the east.

>And many of the Holocaust deaths occurred in ghettos and lagers which
>were not equipped with mass-killing facilities, but simply supplied
>radically inadequate rations to their inmates.

	Josh, do you have the exact numbers to the nearest ten thousand that
were starved to death? 

>And many of d the deaths occurred in transit between ghettos and
>lagers.
	Could you also supply the exact numbers to the nearest ten thousand of
how many died "in transit"?  I can wait until later to ask you for the
full verification.  Thanks, Tom Moran
>--
>Josh Klein
>Amherst College




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:14 PST 1995
Article: 14974 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Destruction of bodies
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 14:01:24 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49v5na$3n2@zippy.cais.net>
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jean-francois beaulieu  wrote:


	I find it 'interesting' that no one has responded to this post. I
believe any deniers should take special note of jean-francois' logical
questions and observations.  The power of this treatment is shown in
the non-response by the usual Holocaust peer prosecution team. One
might at least think that Mr.Morris, the party who jean-francois
responded to, would have come back.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 12:03:15 PST 1995
Article: 14975 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lesson for Mr. Moran (Was Re: Where are the URLs?)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 14:01:28 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49v5nd$3n2@zippy.cais.net>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:


	


	Does this mean you still need URLs for the highlighted clickable
"links" on Nizkor that I referred to, in order to repond to "Nizkor
invite accepted"?  The same ones that make up the NIZKOR touted
programs as cited in "Where are the URLS?" of which you are
web-master?


	No wonder Hilary didn't post this directly at the article "Where are
the URLs". 



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 15:27:20 PST 1995
Article: 15000 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 15:59:41 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49vcl1$500@zippy.cais.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  
>>  
>>  	The standards are too tough?

>	No, they are completely inane.

>>  Maybe we should use U.S. legal standards to regulate the debate. In
>>  this case you'd be in more serious trouble than yu are now. 

>	Fair enough.  Let's use those standards.  Start with the obvious.
>The Holocaust has been established by Courts following those standards.
>You have admitted as such by stating that the what is happening now is
>an "appeal" of those findings of fact.  Under U.S. legal standards, specifically
>Rule 52 (a), Federal Rules of Civil Procedure "Findings of fact, whether based
>on oral or documentary evidence, shall not be set aside unless clearly
>erroneous, and due regard shall be given to the opportunity of the trial
>court to judge of the credibility of the witnesses."  Please note that many
>courts have held that an decision which chooses between two plausible
>stories or permissible explanations can *never* be "clearly erroneous."

>	U.S. legal standards are also clear that it is the appellant (that's
>you) has the burden of going forward.  It's time you hypocritical, little brat
>for you to live up to your standards.  Prove that the findings of fact made by
>courts operating under U.S. legal standards are "clearly erroneous."

>	--YFE
	I like the term "beyond a reasonable doubt".



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec  4 15:27:21 PST 1995
Article: 15001 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran is ...
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 15:59:45 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49vcl4$500@zippy.cais.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49klec$95l@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	"...a troll".  Thank you Danny.

>    Your (heh) welcome, Tom.  But I suspect you don't even know what
>    "troll" means in the context of usenet posting.  And in the great
>    tradition of denier research (aka list building) you aren't even going
>    to bother to find out before adding that term to the list of things you
>    have been called.

	I do now. Morrison let me know. He says it has something to do with
usenet "standards". I haven't checked out his clarification yet as to
applying it to these "standards". Anyway I take it to be synonymous
with "baiter". I thought you were calling me one of those little
characters that hang around under bridges. Of course you do see a lot
of people fishing under bridges. Okay, I'll accept the usenet
definition here. I troll, you bite.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 08:28:02 PST 1995
Article: 15086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:24:14 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <49klej$95l@zippy.cais.net>
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karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>	Thus if you should go to say "Webcrawler", type in Nizkor, a list of
>>sites come up where you might find Nizkor. Then you go to Nizkor, and
>>the home page comes up with a list of subjects. Of course most people
>>know that if the subject is underlined and colored all you have to do
>>is click that, say HWEB, which in turn will incite your rig to make a
>>connection to that function. The URL is really hidden behind the name,
>>which is confirmed when the lengthy URL address appears at the bottom.
>>
>>	So what is all the demanding for URLs? Evasion. 

>Hey, moron, did it ever occur to you that not everyone uses Webcrawler
>or Eudora? I use plain vanilla lynx. If you want a response to something
>specific stored at Nizkor, just copy that "lengthy URL address...at the
>bottom" so the rest of us can find it. 

>I've rarely seen a poster to this newsgroup who spent so much bandwidth
>whining about technicalities, evading any substantive discussion of the
>newsgroup's subject matter.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 08:28:03 PST 1995
Article: 15093 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:29:00 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <49stfu$bac@zippy.cais.net>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>>>Judging fom Mr. Moran's responses to date, it is likely that he wants
>>>someone to look up all the numbers for him so that he can either
>>>assert that any documents cited are forged, or ask how the documents
>>>have been verified, and so on. If Mr. Moran wishes to challenge the
>>>historiography of the Holocaust, he can do his own research and then
>>>post his challenge.
>>>--

>>	Does this mean you are not ready to supply the full story?

>No. It means that, while I am willing to argue with you, I am not
>willing to look up the data for you so that we can argue. You want a
>discussion? Do your own research.

	Your the prosecutor. The burden of supplying the proof is on your
back.

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 08:28:04 PST 1995
Article: 15094 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:29:03 GMT
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Henry Ayre  wrote:

>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>>In article <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>	
>>>	What a mess. The assertions are 10, 11 or 12 million persons murdered
>>>by the German people.  A awesome charge.
>>>	Those who do all the asserting should be held accountable for details.
>>>	How many were killed? To the nearest 250,000. 
>>>	How many were killed in the camps?
>>>	By what methods?
>>>	How many by each method.
>>>	How many in each camp?	
>>>	How many killed in "the field"?
>>>	By what methods?
>>>	How many by each method?
>>>	How many in each sector of "the field"?
>>
>>    In the beginning of your posting run lo about six or eight weeks ago, I
>>    and others made an honest attempt to address your questions.
>>
>>    At this point in time I think it is much more appropriate simply to
>>    ask, "why do you want to know?"
>>
>>
>>===========================================================================
>>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932
>>

>Possibly he is a scholar as you are yourself, Daniel. Some people take a 
>scholarly interest in such things. H. Ayre.

	Thanks for the example.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 08:28:05 PST 1995
Article: 15095 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 17:29:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49pveq$mu4@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>Not even close, Moran my friend.  There have been threads in newsgroups that 
>>>have lasted many times longer than I have seen you here.  I recall the 
>>>"flying feral chicken" thread on talk.origins (don't ask) went on for months.
>>>Actually anything on t.o. usually lasts for months, then just gets recycled 
>>>by Ted Holden and they start all over again.

>>>Sort of like here.

>>        Okay, I'll change it to 'Tom Moran musters the longest threads in the
>>history of alt.rev.'


>Still not even close.  Back in the good old days of Dan Gannon threads used 
>to go on forever.
	"Forever" would include here and now. Where is it?
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 10:39:45 PST 1995
Article: 15103 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More egocentric insanity
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 13:33:37 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <49kn9p$9ir@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>   17. Ask which buliding one is talking about after getting a concise
>>description of the source coverage and eventual exact location as
>>requested. (11)	

>    The egocentrically insane Mr. Moran seems to think that since he has
>seen the Cole video, everyone else must have a copy.  It still hasn't
>occurred to him that maybe Danny Keren doesn't have copy of the video.  It
>still hasn't occurred to him that Ken McVay might not have a copy of the
>video.  It still hasn't occurred to him that he hasn't even given the
>title of this video, and that it certainly isn't something you can just
>run down to the video store to rent.  All that Mr. Moran knows is that he
>has seen the video, and he knows what he is talking about, therefore
>everybody else should magically know too.  That's egocentric insanity.

>    "Auschwitz" is not an exact location.  There were a lot of buildings
>at Auschwitz.  In fact, Auschwitz was more than one camp.  There was
>Auschwitz I, where the early gas chambers were located.  There was
>Auschwitz II, also known as Birkenau, where the later gas chambers were
>located.  There was even Auschwitz III, also known as Monowitz.

>    Mr.  Moran undoubtedly doesn't know this, so he doesn't understand why
>what he thinks is an exact location is not an exact location.  But because
>he is egocentrically insane, he never stops to consider for even a
>nanosecond that any problem of understanding might be his fault.  He
>considers himself the standard by which the whole world should operate.

	Poor Michael Stein, he wants to have an "exact" location. But I don't
know the exact longitude and latitude, to the degree, minute and
second.  Of course if he supplies them to anything he refers to, then
I'll go through the trouble to give him the exact location as to the
building I alluded to; 'the one in the Cole film, the one built half
way below ground, the one at Aucshwitz.'

>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:19 PST 1995
Article: 15109 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nuremberg Trial Coverage on TV Nov. 13-20
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:05 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49na8l$gd5@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        What ever happened to this televised series? I was expecting a report.
>>Do you have a follow up, Michael. Not being much on watching TV, I
>>looked for comment in the papers, but didn't see anything.

>Some were found guilty, some were found innocent, there was the consensus 
>that the Nazis masterminded a vast network dedicated to murder.  That about 
>sums up the series.

	The series or the trial?

>What did you expect to happen, you twit?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:20 PST 1995
Article: 15110 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:11 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <49pvdv$mu4@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <49i49n$r7b@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
>writes...
>> >>mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>>1. THE DEMJANJUK APPEAL
>> >>>   SUMMARY BY ASHER FELIX LANDAU
>> >>>   Jerusalem, July 29, 1993
>> >> 
>> >>>   Israel Information Service Gopher
>> >>>   Information Division              
>> >>>   Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem
>> >>>   Mail all Queries to: ask@israel-info.gov.il
>> >> 
>> >>      Not for one nano-second would I accept anything out of Israel as a
>> >>full account.  
>> 
>> >    Why would that be?  What do you posit is missing?  And why do you posit
>> >    this?
>> 
>> I have observed too many things out of Isreal and about Israel that in
>> my opinion is nothing more than chutzpah.

>Such as? 

>> Chutzpah is not a word I made up. 

>I know, Moran. It _is_ in the dictionary, you know.

>> It is process of mind taught within the Jewish community. 

>No, fool, it means to act with or have "shameless audacity; impudence;
>brass." Having or exibiting chutzpah is not a uniquely Jewish thing. For
>instance, you exibit chutzpah every time you post, as you haven't the
>slightest clue what you're doing or talking about but act as if you did.
>Now _that's_ chutzpah! 

	Chutzpah = Jewish word = "shameless audacity", "impudence", =
resentment from the target.

>> I will give just a few examples here and now, I could go on for days. I
>> have followed the course of Zionism very closely for years.... 

>Please, lets' not. Your incomprehension of the Jewish culture, language,
>and history is only matched by your obvious antisemtism. And stupidity.
>Definetly by your stupidity. 


>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:21 PST 1995
Article: 15111 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocausterclonism
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:16 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>Marty Kelley  writes...
>>On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:
>>> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>>> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...

>>> >>Maybe we should use U.S. legal standards to regulate the debate. In
>>> >>this case you'd be in more serious trouble than yu are now. 

>>> >    Actually, we here try to use historiographical standards.  You posted a
>>> >    question asking me what these were.  I answered your post with a essay
>>> >    about them.  You then posted that you did not read my essay because "it
>>> >    was too long for [your] short attention span."  We will continue to use
>>> >    historiographical standards because those are the standards most
>>> >    appropriate for historical research.  Historians will continue to use
>>> >    historiographical standards.

>>> 	As to your last sentence here; Jewish historians will continue to use
>>> Jewish historiographical standards.

>    Mr. Moran, I go a long way to give people the benefit of doubt.  But
>    now that you have claimed you can never believe anything an Israeli
>    court says and justified it with some bad math about trees AND now that
>    you have accused Jewish historians of using different standards than
>    other historians (and at the point in time I write this have not posted
>    a reasonable rationale for this statement), I have to move to the camp
>    that proclaims you to be nothing more than a misanthropic anti-semite.

	"Semite" a term that is of racial designation. "Anti" means against.
To complain about Zionist policy of killing little kids brings on
charges of "anti-Semite". 

>    Basically, you are seeming to be more and more like Al Baron, just less
>    articulate.  Next, maybe we will find out you hate gays too!

	Danny, I recognized long ago that there was something more to
homosexuality than some moral corruption. I got going on this idea
when I read about there being homosexuality in American Indians, which
I have always considered to be of a morally stringent society. I was
already aware of the practice in the old Greek and Roman cultures. It
is condemned in the Bible, which means it was in the area there. So I
had to recognize it was brought on by something more than some moral
deficiency within a culture or person.
	I came to recognize it to manifest from two fundemental causes. One is
a genetic factor. The other is, it can come from a social cause, such
as a person being rejected by a lover, or having a bad experience with
a parent of the opposite sex, or just being rejected by the opposite
sex because of there physical features, which might be generally held
as unappealing in the culture.
	This does not keep me from having opinions, pro or con, as to some of
the activities gays may engage in. I recognize AIDS as one of the most
avoidable deseases in the land. Its the practice. All the focus on
AIDS, as if it was the only desease in the world, I disagree with.
	I don't think gays should be given preferrencial treatment in hiring
or wwhatever. I don't think they should be discriminated against
either. I don't agree with some of the agressive natures of some of
the gays. I also think some of there displays (parades) are too
sexually oriented.
	Does this make me out to "hate gays"?

>>Oh, please, Mr. Moran, could you enlighten us as to what "Jewish 
>>historiographical standards" are, in your opinion?  I wasn't aware that 
>>one's religion made a difference in how historiography shoud be 
>>conducted, but perhaps you could explain this.  I'm a lapsed Unitarian 
>>myself--do you suppose that affects the way I read history?

	I thought you said you were a Catholic. I could be wrong. I'll check
the record. As to Jewish historiographical standards, from the Bible
to now, the practice is to condemn other cultures to no end. Jewish
machinations still harp on ancient Egypt and Rome, and a myriad of
other targets. I'll give it a documentable treatment down the road.

>    Oh Gawd Marty, not another "self-hating Unitarian"

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:21 PST 1995
Article: 15112 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:21 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49nhg2$hve@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        Tom Moran is transmitting his mustered threads into outer space on
>>packet radio. The whole universe will know the truth. They will reach
>>unto the remotest galaxies, sailing here and there. They will exist
>>forever, even unto the Big Collapse and the next reawakening. They
>>will be the only coherent thing to survive the dynamics of the
>>singularity. They will exist forever throughout all future universal
>>undulations.


>Okaaaay.  Which dimensions are they propogating through?  Dan Gannon 
>identified 26, you you really should be more specific.

	In the ultimate Murray, there is only one dimension.

>--

>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:22 PST 1995
Article: 15113 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the URLs?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:23 GMT
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tom moran  wrote:

>> Don't forget, Jamie, you have taken on the role of a major prosecutor.
>> Now start behaving like you are in court.

>I have taken on the role of an amateur who has some interest in the
>history of the Holocaust.  Thrust nothing else upon me, please.

	Thank you for the record of disclaimer.

>The prosecutors proved their cases quite well at Nuremberg,
>Frankfurt, and Jerusalem, years before I was born.  I'm just repeating
>what they're saying (and occasionally adding a bit more information
>they didn't have).

>Still waiting on those URLs, Mr. Moran.

	Are you talking about the URLs to your own site? Those clickable
"links" you boast of right there on your own page? Do you recommend
that any accessors use URLs to access your page in lieu of clicking
the "links"? I mean if you had a brochure or ad in the papers would
you cover the components of your page by URL or the link headings?
Where would one get the URLs before clicking the links? Show me where
I referred to any locations on your own page that would necessarily
need a URL. Why don't you go over and respond to "Where are the URLs?"

>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:23 PST 1995
Article: 15114 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:28 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4a1sk6$642@zippy.cais.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49nd7b$h2k@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>		
>>	Pressac is one of the main "historians" cited by the Holocausterclone
>>prosecutors. The number of editions published of Pressac's book is put
>>at 1,000.  There are 5,000,000,000 in the world. That makes a ratio of
>>one Pressac book for every 5,000,000 people.

>    What is the point you are trying to make with this information?  (I
>    will assume the information to be correct as I have no knowledge of
>    contrary information)

>    The point I would make from this information is: it is too bad that
>    there is not a bigger market for Holocaust documentation.

	Think about that Danny. Why is this?

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:23 PST 1995
Article: 15115 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:31 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4a1ska$642@zippy.cais.net>
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jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>> jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) wrote:

>> >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>> >> 		
>> >> 	Pressac is one of the main "historians" cited by the Holocausterclone
>> >> prosecutors. The number of editions published of Pressac's book is put
>> >> at 1,000.  There are 5,000,000,000 in the world. That makes a ratio of
>> >> one Pressac book for every 5,000,000 people.

>> >Within a 10 mile radius of my home in Western Massachussetts, there are
>> >at least four copies of Pressac's book available for use in libraries.
>> >(Smith College and the University of Massachgussetts both have an
>> >English copy; Amherst College has both an English copy and a French
>> >one.)

>> >I thought that you were just waiting to tell us, Mr. Moran, just what
>> >stupendous library you were going to use in your Holocaust
>> >researches.  I assume that yu are from southern California.  I would
>> >be quite amazed to find out that UCLA, USC, UC Irvine, UCSD,
>> >the Los Angeles Library, and the libraries of the Claremont 
>> >Colleges were all without Pressac's book.  Perhaps you will first
>> >take the time to use the impressive resources available to you
>> >before cryinmg about the unavailability of Pressac's book.

>> 	Thanks for the idea, in addition to Michael Stein's.

>But just wait -- I have more ideas.  Besdides checking out the six
>libraries I listed above, you can also take the time to see about
>Pepperdine, Occidental, Cal-Poly Pomona, CSU Northridge, CSU
>Long Beach, CSU Domingo Hills, UC Riverside, Redlands University,
>and CSU San Bernardino.  If you live a little further north, then
>UC Santa Barbara is always an option.  But you could also try the
>Claremont School of Theology, or Loyola-Marymount.  I'm willing to
>bet that the Simon Weisenthal Center in Los Angeles has a copy
>(maybe at the Museum of Tolerance.)  You could also try out the
>Hebrew Union of American Congregations rabbinical school cam,pus
>in Los Angeles, or try the University of Judaism.

>I'll tell you what, Mr. Moran.  Before complaining about the 
>unavailability of Pressac's book, why don't you check out
>whichever of the libraries I've listed that are within a
>20-mile radius of your home.  Come to think of it, I'm going to
>be in Southern California in a couple of weeks -- I may just do 
>some checking up on my own...

	Thanks for the further suggestions Josh. Maybe I could meet you for
lunch.

>--
>Josh Klein
>Amherst College




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:24 PST 1995
Article: 15116 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran's Secret
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:44:35 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) amuses us all:
>>  		
>>  	How does Tom Moran do it?  Do what?
>>>>>
>	Please tell us this was humor.  _Please._  _Please._  _Please._

	Say 'pretty please'.

>	--YFE




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 12:27:25 PST 1995
Article: 15118 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Destruction of bodies
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:54:39 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>jean-francois beaulieu  wrote:


>	I find it 'interesting' that no one has responded to this post. I
>believe any deniers should take special note of jean-francois' logical
>questions and observations.  The power of this treatment is shown in
>the non-response by the usual Holocaust peer prosecution team. One
>might at least think that Mr.Morris, the party who jean-francois
>responded to, would have come back.

	Okay after getting a e-mail from Jean-Claude strightening me out, i
think, I am now in the process of figuring out this article, response,
article.



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec  5 13:49:26 PST 1995
Article: 15130 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Argumentum ad populum
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 15:59:27 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  
>>  >    ...and those who don't loose their jobs, are victims of arsons,
>>  >    are jail or sue in law....
>>  
>>  	This is fact.

>>>>>
>	You are in court, Tommy old boy, the worst thing you can
>do in an opening statement is tell the jury you are going to prove
>something and then weasel out.  Your opponent is going to nail you
>on it every time.  Like right now:

>	Please name a single professor in the United States who has
>been fired because of denying the Holocaust or who has been the subject
>of arson.

>	--YFE
	I see that you have cited a statement above to precede your attack in
your summation. Where does it specify "professors"?



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 08:26:18 PST 1995
Article: 15294 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Moran gets one right again! (Wanna Bet?)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 04:48:56 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:


>I just checked my Unix account and lo, I found email from Mr Moran.  
>Facinating email.  Normally I would not discuss email in a public forum (I 
>had my fingers slapped last time) but this is a rather special case.  Mr 
>Moran has seen fit to email his response to one of my posts, a post I saw 
>earlier.

>The message id of the email was 199512021418.GAA19365@north.pacificnet.net, 
>recieved at 13:26:35 GMT.

>I mention this small fact because it appears that Mr Moran is sending me 
>courtesy copies of his response.  Odd in that he complained when this was 
>done for him.

	Morrison your in such a rush to find a little technicality, you can't
see straight. I specified Michael Stein. I specified 16 e-mails in one
day. I specified I don't read e-mail from alt.rev. I specified I
committed Stein's messages to a:/. I never said I didn't send e-mail.
I never said I didn't want any. Check it out. Then come back. You'll
'think' of something. 

>Did Mr Moran find that command in his newsreader and activate it by accident 
>or does he yet again engage in hypocritical activity?  Inquiring minds seek 
>an answer.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@Unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:03 PST 1995
Article: 15402 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:02:24 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49stfu$bac@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>        Your the prosecutor. The burden of supplying the proof is on your
>>back.


>Oops, you need remedial law, too.  The verdict's been in for a half-
>century.  You are the appellant.  The burden of proof in an appeal rests on 
>*you* shoulders.

	I think the case is one of a mis-trial.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:03 PST 1995
Article: 15403 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:02:42 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>In article <4a1sjv$642@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>>Okaaaay.  Which dimensions are they propogating through?  Dan Gannon
>>>identified 26, you you really should be more specific.
>>
>> In the ultimate Murray, there is only one dimension.

>Well, not that the Ultimate Murray has anything to do with it (and
>who is this Ultimate Murray anyway?  one of the Nine Billion Names
>of God?) but I would hope there is more than one dimension.  Pretty
>boring if there were not.  You'd never be able to go anywhere
>because you were already there, which sort of takes the fun out of
>vacations.

	See yor comment on "forever".

>Of course, maybe it is because Mr Moran can not see the forest for
>the trees (all 200 000 000 of them planted just over a foot apart).

	I'm glad to see have a problem with this childish propaganda that
appeared in the N.Y. Times.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:04 PST 1995
Article: 15404 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran musters longest threads in history
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:02:48 GMT
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <49stg7$bac@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>Seems like you, Tom, have a very inflated (if fragmented) opinion of
>>>yourself. Not to mention a staggering incomprehension of the
>>>inverse-square law! Yessir, that packet radio of yours, alll 5 watts (or
>>>whatever miniscule power it puts out) is going to reach some distant alien
>>>civilization thousands of light years away? ROFLMAO! 

>>        What is most tantamount in transmission, watts or antenna design?

>For transmission?  Watts.  Antenna design is important in signal 
>*reception*, not transmission.  By the way, you might want to use that 
>dictionary of yours.  The word you want is "paramount", not "tantamount".

	Here you go again, Morrison. How Morrisan, why don't you expand on
this a bit, and then after you post your reply, I'll set you straight.
I will even give you citation from "accredited" authority. I would do
right now, but I want you to make a fool out of yourself some more,
before I do.

>>>Not to mention, of course, you'll be competing with broadcasts of "I Love
>>>Lucy" re-runs. If there are rational and intellent beings out there faced
>>>with the stupifying choice of which one to listen too, one can be sure it
>>>won't the dreck you spew. 

>>        What I didn't include is that I have discovered a system that is not
>>restricted by the constant c. I have already gotten word back from 10
>>to the 100th power planets expressing disgust with the
>>Holocausterclonisms.    


>You attempts at sarcasm are as pitiful as ever.

>Perhaps you should get together with fellow-deniers Gannon and Zuendel to 
>explore Gannon's 26 dimensions in Zuendel's Antarctic UFOs equipped with 
>your radio?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:05 PST 1995
Article: 15405 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:02:52 GMT
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karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>Could you please translate "rigii" from Moron to English?

>>	Yea, the one that Nizkor refers to, "old style" printer. I guess you
>>have one.

>Sorry, Moron, you still haven't translated the word into English, and
>I still have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Why don't you need one of these to print revisionist pages?

>What is your problem, Moron? I just gave you a simple procedure which 
>should work for any damned document stored at Nizkor.  I'll try once
>more:

>1) Save the text to a file on your hard disk or other local storage
>   medium. Do you understand how to do this? Do you understand using
>   "p" in the lynx program to "print" to a file?

>2) Get out of your communications program and into your word
>   processor. Do you have a word processor? WordPerfect, for instance?
>   Many simple text editors allow printing as well.

>3) Import the text you saved into your word processor.

>4) Clean it up. Adjust the margin, or fonts, or whatever appeals to
>   you to make the text readable.

>5) Use the printing facility of your word processor. In WordPerfect,
>   this starts with Shift-F7 on PCs. If you're on another platform,
>   you may have to do something else.

>Now I realize that the above is in English rather than Moron. If you
>have trouble with any of the big words, let me know. I may be able
>to translate them into mutually comprehensible little words. Then
>again, maybe not.

	Thanks for wising me up to the procedure that took you a hundred words
to convey. 
	Heres how you print revisionist pages; Bring up the copy. Press print.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:06 PST 1995
Article: 15406 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE MISSING NAMES?
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:02:55 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>	Your the prosecutor, the burden of supplying the exact proof is on
>>you. Now name the books and the pages. In fact present the exact
>>material here.

>Where did you get the idea I'm a prosecutor? I'm a participant in a 
>newsgroup. I have no burdens of proof at all. I told you about one method
>used in estimating the number of victims in the Holocaust. If you're 
>interested in details (I'm not, particularly), you can do your own research.
>You might, for a start, look in an appendix to a book by one Nora Levin.
>(Go to your local library and look it up. Title is THE HOLOCAUST 
>or something similarly simple.)

>>	How would we know the rabbi isn't lying? 

>Perhaps he was. I have no way of knowing. But I also have no reason
>to believe that he was. Do you?

	I'm certainly glad you used the word "believe". To this I would say I
believe he is lying, founded on a long history of observing the lies.

>>                                                I take it by your last
>>sentence here you have been in touch with the rabbi?

>No, Moron, my understanding comes from the words you yourself posted.
>Obviously you didn't understand them. You're not the only revisionist
>in this sort of situation. 

>>>>	How would we be able to know the existing list of 3,000,000 names is
>>>>legitimate?

>>>How would we be able to know that the list of the signers of the 
>>>Declaration of Independence is genuine? Maybe Adam Weishaupt forged
>>>all those signatures. 
>>	
>>	This is not an answer.

>Yes it is, Moron, but it takes a bit of intelligence to understand an
>analogy. I obviously overestimated yours.

	I would say the authenticity of the signatures on the Declaration of
Indepenmdence is 6,000,000 times more verifiable than the rabbis
existing list of 3,000,000.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:07 PST 1995
Article: 15407 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:03:00 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <49sth0$bac@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>Josh, you don't know whether or not Pressac is a PhD., or accredited
>>historian do you?  I've been asking around and no one seems to know.

>    This was answered last night.  See "Pressac's credentials." 

	See "Pressac, yes. Pressac, no. It all depends."  

>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:08 PST 1995
Article: 15408 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:03:07 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <49vh0v$a39@amhux3.amherst.edu>, jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) writes...

>>But just wait -- I have more ideas.  Besdides checking out the six
>>libraries I listed above, you can also take the time to see about
>>Pepperdine, Occidental, Cal-Poly Pomona, CSU Northridge, CSU
>>Long Beach, CSU Domingo Hills, UC Riverside, Redlands University,
>>and CSU San Bernardino.  If you live a little further north, then
>>UC Santa Barbara is always an option.  But you could also try the
>>Claremont School of Theology, or Loyola-Marymount.  I'm willing to
>>bet that the Simon Weisenthal Center in Los Angeles has a copy
>>(maybe at the Museum of Tolerance.)  You could also try out the
>>Hebrew Union of American Congregations rabbinical school cam,pus
>>in Los Angeles, or try the University of Judaism.

>    I just checked the UC online card catalog.  The English version of
>    Pressac is at UC Davis and UC Santa Clara.  Neither is close to Los
>    Angeles, but both a available via inter-library loan.  the French
>    version is at Berkeley and at UC Santa Barbara.  The book is also at my
>    University in Tucson (but Marty Kelley has most every good Holocaust
>    book checked out :>)

	No problem, I found one in the library of the Los Angeles School of
Pharmacy.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:08 PST 1995
Article: 15409 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ONE IN 5,000,000
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:03:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4a7kre$3um@zippy.cais.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  
>>  	Okay Yale, now you make a comment on the corrected text.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>>>>
>	Sure, you claim only 1000 copies of Pressac's book were printed.
>Evidently that's what the publisher thought the demand would be.

	Interesting.

>	--YFE




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec  7 23:31:09 PST 1995
Article: 15410 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moranic Mathematics? (was Re: WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS?)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 20:03:20 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <4a7kro$3um@zippy.cais.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <49sfht$gq8@access2.digex.net>, mstein@access2.digex.net
>(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>> In article ,
>> Daniel Keren  wrote:
>> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>> >
>> ># I have followed the course of Zionism very closely for years. 

>Moran, playing with your crotch for years is _not_ "following Zionism."
>It's playing with yourself. 


>> ># Every now and then we will see a sizable ad in the N.Y. Times 
>> ># touting Israel. 

>And? I see expensive multi-page ads in various (typically business)
>magazines from countries like Korea, India, Taiwan, Hungary, and
>Signapore, etc. all the time. You have a problem that Israel does the
>same? Now why would that be?  

>> ># One of them claimed that the Jews have planted 
>> ># 200,000,000 trees, in an effort to have the readers think that 
>> ># Isreal is big on enviroment. This would come out to about one 
>> ># tree for every two square feet.

>Your difficulty with numbers, aside, I think I'll tend to agree with Mike
>about your reliability for supplying evidence: 

>>     Of course, he didn't give a date for this supposed ad.  I would not be
>> surprised if his memory is as accurate about the 200,000,000 tree figure
>> as it seems to have been about secular menorahs and articles written by
>> Hilary Ostrov.  In both cases Mr. Moran has made a charge which he could
>> not supply evidence for.  I suspect this is another one. 
>> 
>>     You're the prosecutor, Tom.  You've charged menorah-secularizing,
>> article-writing, and tree-advertising.  Where's your proof, Mr.
>> Prosecutor?  Waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting....

>It's like waiting for Godot, except in this case it's waiting for a moron.

>Why bother? The fool is a shmuck who gets his kicks spewing stupid and
>antisemitic rhetoric that he knows is indefensible. He then hightails it
>back to his Bastion of Imbecility, where he can hide behind the walls of
>stupidity and churlishness, saying "nyah, nyah, neenyaah nyah!" like a two
>year-old. 

	I'm happy to see another example of complaining about the 200,000,000
million. You can cop 'misprint' on posting of the particulars.

>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec  8 09:41:25 PST 1995
Article: 15465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!news.ossi.com!ipac.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 04:48:49 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4a5v9c$q2m@zippy.cais.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	
	CORRECTION: to figures given in the initial article at the top of this
thread. It states that Nizkor claims there were "3.1 million German
Jews", and further implies they were wisk away to Poland for
extermination, whereas the Simon Wiesenthal page simply states there
were 300,000 Jews in Germany before the war, without further comment.
The corrected figure is that figure cited from the Simon Wiesenthal
Page, which should read "600,000".    



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:51 PST 1995
Article: 15747 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:26:27 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4akaeb$4g9@zippy.cais.net>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>> 
>># The book states that these remains were "scattered on fields or dumped
>># into nearby ponds or the Sola and Vistula rivers". The Vistula River
>># is 100 miles north. The Sola I couldn't find on my particular map.

>>I will check this (and, please, can others check this as well). I
>>have a feeling this is going to be a memorable "revisionist" quote;
>>as I recall, the river runs right by Auschwitz.

>Memorable indeed. The Vistula River runs quite close by Auschwitz,
>perhaps as close as a mile. But that's just my particluar map.

	My map ("World Atlas" Rand McNally) shows the "(Vistula River)"
running east - west north of Warsaw. Further north it is identified as
the "Wista".
        It shows the "Wista" running through or immediately adjacent
to Krakow. Evidentally "Vistula" is another name or foriegn version of
the river. 


>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:52 PST 1995
Article: 15749 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pressac, yes?  Pressac, no?  It all depends?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:42:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 48
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.239

hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4aa40g$ggf@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[reposting deleted] 

>Mr. Moran, we *did* see this the first time:

>	From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
>	Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>	Subject: Pressac, yes?  Pressac, no?  It all depends
>	Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 04:48:36 GMT
>	Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 	
>	703-448-4470
>	Lines: 102
>	Message-ID: <4a5v91$q2m@zippy.cais.net>

>Unlike the substance, the intelligibility level of your writing is
>somewhat superior to that which we have become accustomed to seeing
>from you.   But I hardly think that the addition of one more "?" in
>the subject line is sufficient to warrant such a waste of bandwidth.

>As far as I can tell, you have not made any corrections in this
>current version.  Why did you find it necessary to repost, Mr. Moran?
>Did your rigii not register the factual errors that were pointed out
>to you in the responses to your initial posting?  Would you like us to
>repost our responses?  Or is this just a new little game you have
>decided to play?

	Hilary, your mind takes you where it wants you to go, not necissarily
in two or more directions first, but impulsively in one direction to
satisfy your personal needs.
	When I first posted the article I eventually retrieved it's header but
did not retrieve the body. Later on, or the next day, when I updated
the group the header was not there, so I reposted it. Sorry if this
does not pacify your needs.
>hro



>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:53 PST 1995
Article: 15750 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:42:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4akbc8$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> 
># The book states that these remains were "scattered on fields or dumped
># into nearby ponds or the Sola and Vistula rivers". The Vistula River
># is 100 miles north. The Sola I couldn't find on my particular map.

>I will check this (and, please, can others check this as well). I
>have a feeling this is going to be a memorable "revisionist" quote;
>as I recall, the river runs right by Auschwitz.	

># 39. a small building set back in amongst a grove of trees and 
># said to to be a crematoria. 

>"small building"? How do you define "small"?

	About the size of a community center in a retirement center. 30x90
feet.

># The building is so engulfed by the trees that it would make the 
># building most unfit for filing massive numbers of people into it, 
># and evacuation of remains. 

>Garbage. You're talking about Krema IV, right? I have this
>photograph scanned. Everyone can check it in the ftp site. The
>building is not "engulfed by the trees".

	The photo wasn't identified by a "Krema" number.

># The tome under review had one other photograph of an exterior of a
># building identified as a crematoria, which was obviously new looking
># and had visitor pedestrian paths radiating from it. This is probably
># the one that is reported to have been rebuilt by the Soviets.  

>If it was "rebuilt by the Soviets", why does it have cyanide traces
>on its walls (as even "revisionists" admit)?

	When you say "cyanide" do you mean Zyclone? What traces, in
concentration. One part in so many billion like could come off off
disinfectred clothes?

># We might assume this was one that could accommodate 2,000 people 
># at one time, which would mean it would have to have a awesome 
># introductory system for the incinerating process.   

>No. Again, assuming you're talking about Krema I, it was one of the
>smaller gas chambers. It could not have accommodated 2,000 people.
>This could be achieved in Kremas II and III.

	Whatever. The only interior shots the book shows of "incinerators" are
those I discribed. Like the one I identified as being one in the same
as in your exhibition. The one, which in your exhibition was so
obscure it could be taken for showing large entrances, but in the
clarified rendition showed the individual 2x2 foot doors to individual
incinerators. 
	Do you have a source that gives a comprehensive photo survey of these
alleged "Kremas" and identified by there number? I want to check it
out.
>-Danny Keren.

>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

>-Lu Xun.




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:53 PST 1995
Article: 15751 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Argumentum ad populum
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:43:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <4akbdp$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]

>>	Show me where I specified "professors" or "accredited historians" and
>>I'll retract it. Simple enough.

>Interesting dodge, Mr. Moran.  But not very artful.

>In Message-ID: <49pvea$mu4@zippy.cais.net> [or in Moranese that is
>12/2 6:45, I believe] one finds the following:

>	jean-francois beaulieu  wrote:

>	>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>	>>
>	>> In article <48q6g4$pf6@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom 	
>	moran) writes...
>	>> >dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>	>> >>In article <48g4rp$8m9@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom 
>	moran) writes...

>	[...]

>	[DM] 1. Every accredited WWII and Jewish Studies Historian in 	
>	the world accepts the Holocaust as fact; 

>	[J-FB] ...and those who don't loose their jobs, are victims of 
>	arsons, are jail or sue in law.... 

>	[TM] This is fact.  
>	         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I will grant that Mr. Moran did not personally (or explicitly!)
>specify either "professors" or "accredited historians".  Perhaps
>originally he thought he was merely committing a #4 (or maybe it's a
>different number ... I can't quite see his legal pad from here);
>however, with his current dodge, he is again engaging in obfuscatory
>petty semantics.

	The topic here is did I say this or that. You said "I will grant that
Mr. Moran did not personally specify ..." Thanks.

>If Mr. Moran had the slightest degree of integrity or intellectual
>honesty, he would acknowledge that the inferences of his
>unsubstantiated assertion are such that he cannot be absolved of
>responsibility for promulgating this lie. 

>Unless Mr. Moran is prepared to provide some verifiable documentation
>to support his claim that "[t]his is fact",  his retraction (no less
>than that of Mr. Beaulieu) should be immediately forthcoming.

>hro

>P.S. Just so you don't lose track of what the expectations are, Mr.
>Moran, a gentle reminder of the point you attempted to dodge:

>Mr. Edeiken requested:

>>please tell us the name of a single "accredited
>>historian" who has been fired from his or her job, been subjected to arson,
>>or sued because of his or her denial of the Holocaust.

>and Dr. Mittleman reiterated:

>    	I have offered to contribute $50 to the IHR if he can name  
>	historians in all three categories and stated that I expect him to 	
>	offer a retraction if he cannot.  To date neither has happened.





>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:54 PST 1995
Article: 15752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor invite accepted
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:43:30 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4akbea$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48q2me$515@news.enter.net>  <49steg$bac@zippy.cais.net> <4a5v9c$q2m@zippy.cais.net> <4a9tg1$2ut@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <4a5v9c$q2m@zippy.cais.net>, 
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	CORRECTION: to figures given in the initial article at the top of this
>>thread. It states that Nizkor claims there were "3.1 million German
>>Jews", and further implies they were wisk away to Poland for
>>extermination, whereas the Simon Wiesenthal page simply states there
>>were 300,000 Jews in Germany before the war, without further comment.
>>The corrected figure is that figure cited from the Simon Wiesenthal
>>Page, which should read "600,000".    

>Which article on Nizkor claims there were 3.1 million German
>Jews, Mr. Moran?

	Okay, sorry. I take note of "Government general". 
Tom Moran is capable of recognizing his errs. Any others?

>-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:55 PST 1995
Article: 15753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What is Moran Talking About?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:44:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4akbfe$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.239
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>In article <10DEC199514521256@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) writes:
>>
>>    You seem to alter between appearing very stupid a                  nd
>>    appearing very wiley.  At times I have supposed you are trolling.  The
>>    thought that you are a practiced Holocaust denier who has taken on a
>>    newbie identity has crossed my mind.                               his

>You know it's funny that you should mention that because I was just
>thinking the same thing earlier today (I can hear the cries of
>"Clone! Clone!" already, but I digress).  I was reading through some
>of Mr Moran's posts talking about the Grand Canyon and such things
>and was struck by how generally literate and thought out it was,
>especially when he did nail me on that "predicting the future"
>thing, at least from one point of view (I was imprecise).  And I get
>hints of various logical traps he has laid, some overt and some
>subtle.

	Morrison I think you have taken a big step up here. I didn't "nail"
you. You nailed yourself. You were impulsive, like we can all be. The
idea is to recognize it, as you have done here. 

>And yet, sometimes in the same post, he oscillates between someone
>who seems very literate and someone who couldn't understand the
>instructions on a stop sign.  The prime example of this is where he
>associates me with creationists when I was making a point about his
>methodology.  Generally, the variation is between posts, not within
>them.

	I didn't take it that way, and it took you a week to come back on it.
Follow the precident you established above.

>Is Nizkor logging his posts?  I'd like to go back over them and see
>if there is a pattern to this dichotomy, which I suspect there is.
>It almost seems that there are two people using the same account,
>one who is reading-impaired and an almost incomprehensible writer of
>drivel and one literate and subtly careful.

	There could be a better way, I don't know, but I put everything onto
floppy and them bring it up on a word program. Use the "search"
feature. Of course you have to develope a memory and capacity to
recognize common denominators so as to be able to muster up key words
or phrases to enter.

>Any psychologists out there?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:55 PST 1995
Article: 15754 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:45:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4akbhj$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199521364084@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <49na9v$gd5@zippy.cais.net> <1DEC199517181156@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4a7kq5$3um@zippy.cais.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.239
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> 	You know Danny, all I have to is look around Nizkor, Simon Wiesenthal,
>> alt.rev., see a few quotes from this book or that, read some stuff in
>> this book or that, and the numbers can change radically as to any
>> particular circumstance, like Auschwitz. You tell me which book you
>> would suggest for the ultimate authority, on any particular assertion,
>> Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc., killing in the fields, by gas, by club, by
>> gun, by whip, what ever.

>There is no single, ultimate book on the Holocaust.  There are many 
>excellent books on the Holocaust, and depending upon the methods the 
>historians used to calculate the estimates of deaths, the estimated 
>numbers do indeed vary.  

>I don't know why I'm bothering to post this, since you have not shown any 
>inclination to actually read any of the books people in this newsgroup 
>have suggested, but here goes, anyway: a couple of good starters: 

>Nora Levin. _The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry 1933-1945_ 
>	New  York: Shocken Books, 1973.

	Thanks for the further referrence. I guess you have seen my post that
I have picked up Hilberg's and Bauer's book. And yes there are gross
discrepencies, between the two and other Holocaust data.>

	(Includes an appendix listing several different historians' 
>	estimates; also discusses methods by which those estimates 
>	were derived)

>Lucy Dawidowicz. _The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945_. New York: Bantam, 
>	1975.  (A newer edition was published in the 1980's; I don't have 
>	a reference handy for it.)

>	(Includes a country-by-country summary of European nations' prewar 
>	Jewish populations, the Nazi actions taken against Jews in each 
>	country, and estimates of Jewish deaths and survivors by country)
	
	This is a big area of discrepancy.

>Now, Mr. Moran, do you intend to read these books?

	Could be.
>>>>Posted and E-mailed.  Followups to alt.revisionism, please.  E-mailed 
>replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise 
>requested by sender<<<

> 
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

>"When Zsa Zsa Gabor represents a dose of reality,
>can madness be far behind?" --Griffy





From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:56 PST 1995
Article: 15755 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which camp, Mr. Moran?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:45:45 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <4akbih$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se (Stephane Bruchfeld) wrote:


>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>>>In article <49i4d7$r7b@zippy.cais.net>, 
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>>dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>>>>One last attempt:

>>>>>Do you know where is the gas chamber you're talking about?

>>>>>I tried to make the question as simple as possible - please
>>>>>try to answer it. If you know the camp's name post 
>>>>>it, and if you don't, just say that you don't know. Ok?

>>>>	Auschwitz.

>>>_Which_ camp, Mr. Moran? (There were more than one, you see,
>>>which is precisely why Dr. Keren continues to request
>>>clarification. If you don't know, just _say_ so.)

>>>As a matter of courtesy, Mr. Moran, you might consider
>>>reducing the size of the material you quote during your
>>>responses. It is pointless to quote an entire article, as you
>>>did here, including nothing but a one-word (and unresponsive)
>>>reply.

>>	Kenny, I think we are talking about a film. You know the one. You know
>>when you play stupid you look stupid. This theme 'Which building' -
>>"Which camp, Mr. Moran?" has a history right here on alt.rev. at this
>>time.


>Mr. Moran, you will excuse me. I have not followed this
>discussion very closely, but since Auschwitz was a complex of
>some 40 camps it might be easier to follow your argument if you
>would indicate which of the 40 camps you have in mind. To answer
>"Auschwitz" is not very informative, as I am sure you understand.


	Forty (40) camps. They all had the facilities for mass destruction? 
They were all featured in Cole's film. I recall now that he kept
stating there were no facilities of mass destruction and disposal in
the "main camp". Since he kept reitierating "main camp" I got the idea
he would have the viewers think there could have been some in other
associated "camps". Maybe you could come back with the names of the
"forty". Or at least a source for a listing, discription and diagrams.





>--
>Stephane Bruchfeld
>stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se
>Address: Box 34036, S-100 26 Stockholm, Sweden

>"Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine taetige Unwissenheit" -
>Goethe






From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:57 PST 1995
Article: 15756 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran-Geologist at Large
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:46:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4akbj8$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <4aete9$9qt@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>>>    Well, then.  Apparantly unlike other Holocaust deniers who have just
>>>>>    crawled out from under a rock, Mr. Moran can tell us what kind of rock
>>>>>    it was.

>>>>        Here, I'll give you a clue. It was sedimentary, igneous or
>>>>metamorphic. It originated somewhere between pre-Cambrian and
>>>>Tertiary.


>>>Really?  Are all rocks restricted to forming between these periods?  I guess 
>>>I'd better tell those volcanologists next door that they are studying 
>>>something that does not exist.

>>        Point to exactly where I said anything absolute Morrison. Did I
>>say "between"? Clarification: From the pre-Cambrian to Tertiary. Now I
>>will say - yes. I will eliminate the quaternary on the grounds of
>>probabilities, since we can suppose the processes are still at work,
>>but deep down, and not yet exposed. Now, go show it to guys next door.
>>Take the other geological exchanges we have had along. They'll
>>probably tell you to go jump into a volcano.


>Oh, but according to you that probably wouldn't do anything because volcanos 
>don't do anything these days.  This might surprise people in Hawaii who see 
>new rock being manufactured almost continously right now.

>And then of course there's all that basaltic rock being produced in the 
>spreading centers.  The carbonates being formed off the Bahamas.  There is a 
>great deal of rock being produced as we speak.  But you knew that, didn't 
>you?

	Yes. But most rocks produced by volcanic eruption are too small to
hide under, which is how this topic got going. Danny M. ask me what
kind of rock I came out from under.
>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 12 11:25:58 PST 1995
Article: 15757 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Call for Opinion (was: Re: Holocausterclonism)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:46:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4akbjm$4lr@zippy.cais.net>
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t08o@unb.ca (MORRISON  KEITH MURRAY) wrote:

>In article <4af9eo$cji@zippy.cais.net> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>>>>> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> >    Call for opinion: everyone in this newsgroup either impressed or
>>>>>> >    intimidated by Mr. Moran's anti-intellectualism please stand and be
>>>>>> >    counted...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    Okay Yale, Marty, Powers, Klein, Stein, etc., stand up and be counted.
>>>>> 
>>>>>Okay, sure: I find Mr. Moran to be perhaps the _sine qua non_ of 
>>>>>anti-intellectualism, an impressive feat in this newsgroup.  (oops, but I 
>>>>>posted this sitting down...)

>>>>    I disagree.  Les is less.  

>>>       Let me see if I can help you with your call for support, Danny.
>>> 
>>>       SO FAR DANNY MITTLEMAN HAS GOTTEN ONLY ONE VOTE.
>>> 
>>>       There that should do it. 

>>        Okay now we have two. Morrison and Marty.


>BWAHAHAHAHAHA!  You are such a complete *idiot*, Moran.  Mr Mittleman asked 
>who was intimidated by you.  *NOBODY* said they were except for two people 
>, both of whom were being sarcastic as probably everybody else realized.

>If nothing else, this thread has demonstrated you have no ability at reading 
>comprehension.

	Look again Morrison, Danny called for a vote. Now here you are
scamming by voting three times. Isn't there a name for this? Ballot
box tampering - or something like that?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 13 12:25:52 PST 1995
Article: 15882 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just What is Moran Talking About?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:18:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> 
># Well I guess its best to play stupid and cover your tracks than leave
># it all out there. I find it doubtful, that a person as absorbed in
># Holocaustery as you are would not have seen the Cole film. 

>I see no reason to view "films" produced by ignorant fools.

	This statement is ironic in that if a revisioist said the same thing
about reading Holocaust books it would be harped on to the moon.

># I described the building and eventually the location, a place I 
># equally hold a theory you know a lot about, in your own way, so
># when you ask, I don't believe you. 

>You may not believe me, but I cannot figure out from your
>description what gassing facility you're talking about. First,
>it sounded like Mauthausen. Then, you said it's in Auschwitz. I
>guess that if this is correct, you mean either Krema I or Bunker
>11. But I don't know.

># Do I know the name of the building, like 'Cremation Hall' or 'Unit
># 123', no.

	Main camp, is another explicit I remember. In fact the said so many
times I got the idea he would have the viewers consider the possiblity
for other parts.

>How would you? You're a "revisionist scholar", are you not? Why
>should a "revisionist scholar" know which gas chamber he's talking
>about?


>-Danny Keren.


>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

>-Lu Xun.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 13 12:25:52 PST 1995
Article: 15883 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:21:02 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


             - "South West Jewish Archives" -
 (Webcrawler > Jews > Southwestern Jewish Archives > Crypto-Jews)
 
	"The Bloom Southwest Jewish Archives has amassed an enormous amount of
information ..." to show that the Catholics were stupid people and
that Jews were the only ones who could read and write in pioneer days.
	The Spanish Catholics feared the Jews because they had "special
expertise in various fields".
	Offering up the best of their "enormous" archives, we might assume,
the Blooms cite a few examples to support their apparent motive of
portraying Jews as superior, the first being a "'Mrs.O'" who had the
feeling she was Jewish, because she was raised in a Hispanic community
and her family was the only '"family who were intellectuals, so
therefore we must have been Jewish"'. "Pressed" further she said
'"Well we were the only ones who had books in our house therefore we
must have been Jewish"'.
	Another example given by the Blooms to lead us to how extensive Jewish
presence was in the old west was from "a young man" who remembered his
grandfather carving menorahs.
	In another display of ethnocentricism and exemplifying the genetic
connection of Judaism, the Blooms quote a Denver dentist who joined a
Jewish congregation, saying he did not have to convert, "even though
his father was a church going Catholic, his mother did not want him to
go to church and told him repeatedly that she was Jewish and therefore
he was too". "My mother was the clever one in the family" and their
"...Catholic friends sneared at us". 
	Another example from the enormous archives was a translater from the
Univ. of Ariz. who had a amulet with Hebrew text and who's mother
never cooked pork.
	Still another person raised by a "Catholic" mother wrote a response to
a letter (not discused) that appeared in the The Albuquerque Journal,
and the response quoted in part by the Blooms proclaimed, "...scratch
a New Mexican and his Indian blood will flow. Scratch a little deeper
and his Jewish or Moorish blood will flow. Scratch no deeper 'cause
that's all you need to know."
	

        
	
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 13 19:06:35 PST 1995
Article: 15918 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:30:20 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
	Raul Hilberg,
"The Destruction of European Jews"

"On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
to speak, nonexistent'".

	



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:26 PST 1995
Article: 16270 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:20:48 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Jeff  wrote:

	Jeff,
I read your post here, and nowhere can I find where your post implied
even to minutest degree that Auschwitz was a "sanitorium for corpulent
people", where they had "jacuzzis", "color TVs", "single rooms",
"transistor radios", or "laptop PCs".
	Now why would anyone exaggerate such a implication? 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:26 PST 1995
Article: 16271 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pressac, yes?  Pressac, no?  It all depends
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukhd$ger@zippy.cais.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Web Crawler(say)>Nizkor>Nizkor Home
>> Page>Shofar FTP Archives>pub>camps>Auschwitz>Pressac.

>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>> And for those who would like to take a less circuitous route, the URL
>> is:
>> 
>> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/camps/auschwitz/pressac

>Ms. Ostrov, I can't help noticing that your URL is 51 characters long,
>while Mr. Moran's instructions are 88 characters long.

>Yet Mr. Moran complains about how long it takes him to type URLs!

	Thank god, Tom Moran takes the trouble to write out 88 keystrokes that
people can read in seconds and then can perform in 6 keystrokes and
five clicks.

>(He wrote in another thread, "Well heres another one who prefers typing
>out 900 character URLs instead of clicking those little doodads.")

>Curious!
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:27 PST 1995
Article: 16272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:18 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4aukhq$ger@zippy.cais.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Heres how you print revisionist pages; Bring up the copy. Press print.

>In that case, here's how you print Nizkor pages:  bring up the copy.
>Press print.

	When you bring up Nizkor pages, press print. When you bring up Nizkor
FTPs press print, wait for your rig to freeze up, then deboot.

>(Sheesh.)

>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:28 PST 1995
Article: 16274 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:33 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> 
>> >On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> >> 	I think the case is one of a mis-trial.
>> 
>> >And you have come to your conclusion based on what evidence?  If you're 
>> >going to argue that the Nazi regime was unfairly accused and convicted of 
>> >its crimes, you might have to read a book, maybe even two or three, to 
>> >support your appeal. 
>> 
>> 	Okay, Marty. Thanks for the specifications. I was wondering how you
>> may react if I came out and said I have read, so many, books. My
>> theory was, if I had come out and said I read 1000 books, say, you
>> would say its not enough. As I said before, Hilberg and Bauer are
>> under going review at this time.  What other one do you suggest? 

>Actually, Mr. Moran, I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that you seem 
>to actually be reading books, at long last. I would have to say, though, 
>that it's not only the quantity of your reading that matters, but the 
>*quality* of your reading comprehension and analytical skill, as well.  
>You have already demonstrated, in your replies to my posts on the Supreme 
>Court's rulings on the display of religious symbols on public property, a 
>remarkable ability to mis-read fairly simple information (I'd be happy to 
>re-post and review those posts if you've forgotten), so I'll confess that 
>I'm already a bit skeptical about what you'll have to say about Hilberg and 
>Bauer.  

>But at least you're reading them--that's a step in the right direction.
>Next, we'll see if you can discuss them intelligently.

	I assume when you say your "skeptical" about what I will have to say,
and whether or not I can "discuss them intelligently", that you will
measure the review by your personal standards, is that not correct? 

>>>>Posted and E-mailed.  Followups to alt.revisionism, please.  E-mailed 
>replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise 
>requested by sender<<<

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

>"When Zsa Zsa Gabor represents a dose of reality,
>can madness be far behind?" --Griffy





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:29 PST 1995
Article: 16276 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukir$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aa3bo$gcm@zippy.cais.net>  <4agiua$148u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4akaeb$4g9@zippy.cais.net> <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4aor08$414@atlas.uniserve.com>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
>(John Morris) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>	My map ("World Atlas" Rand McNally) shows the "(Vistula River)"
>>>running east - west north of Warsaw. Further north it is identified as
>>>the "Wista".
>>>        It shows the "Wista" running through or immediately adjacent
>>>to Krakow. Evidentally "Vistula" is another name or foriegn version of
>>>the river. 

>>It's not my fault that you can't read a map.

>And perhaps if Mr. Moran were to learn to navigate the web as the rest
>of the world does, he might be able to learn to read a map :>)
>
	My source has been explained. Do you know anything about the Wista
being also called the Vistula, or vice versa? Now that you have gone
after the one grain of black on the whole beach of white sand, which
turned out only to be gray, maybe you would like to continue on with
commenting on the white sand. See article "HA, HA. How about this. Er
.."

=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:29 PST 1995
Article: 16277 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:23:30 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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	"Adolph Hitler"
        by John Toland

	Chapter 27
'"And with the beast of the Earth"'
    "April 1943 to April 1944"

	"But the man who did most to hinder the atrocities to the East was a
thirty four year old German lawyer who worked for Himmler. Konrad
Morgen ... had become imbued with the ethics of the law from his
student days and even as an assistant SS judge was outspoken in his
disapproval of illegality whoever committed it. His judgements, based
on the evidence, so exasperated his superiors that Morgen was posted
to a front-line SS division as punishment. Because of his outstanding
reputation he was transferred in 1943 to the SDs Financial Crimes
Office ... Early that summer he was given a routine investigative
mission to clear up a long-standing corruption case at Buchenwald
concentration camp. The commodant, Karl Koch, had been suspected of of
hiring out camp laborers to civilian employers, racketeering in food
supplies ...
	Morgen journyed in July to Weimar ... and quietly began his research.
To his surprise he found the concentration camp, located on a hill
above Wiemar, a prospect pleasing to the eye. The installations were
clean and freshly painted: the grounds covered with grass and
flowers." The prisoners appeared to be healthy, sun tanned ..." 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:30 PST 1995
Article: 16282 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:06:47 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aun72$h0e@zippy.cais.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
Random House College Dictionary

"Vistula: a river in Poland, flowing N from the Carpathian Mountains
past Warsaw into the Baltic near Danzig. ab. 650 mi. long. Polish,
Wista. German, Weichael." 


	Like one of those table top demonstrations with the ball bearings
hanging by strings; take the end bearing and bring it bake and let it
go in the direction of the next bearing and this bearing in turn hits
the next until it goes through the whole line resulting in them
eventually clacking back and forth hitting into each other, Danny
Keren then Morris then Hilary then Van Alstine jump on Tom Moran's
little faux pas and ignore the rest. 

'Oh look, we found one grain of black sand on the beach, therefore the
whole beach is black.
	Would any of the other ball bearings like to sign on? 















From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:31 PST 1995
Article: 16283 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:11:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4aung2$h0e@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aetd9$9qt@zippy.cais.net> <4ahi1f$th5@zippy.cais.net> <4amqv7$95@zippy.cais.net> <14DEC199515050562@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <4amqv7$95@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>             - "South West Jewish Archives" -
>> (Webcrawler > Jews > Southwestern Jewish Archives > Crypto-Jews)

>    Thanks Tom.  For the rest of the world, the address is:

>         http://dizzy.library.arizona.edu/images/swja/swjalist.html

>    Its a fascinating site.  I finally went and looked at it today.  I
>    don't see what it has to do with the Holocaust, but I found in the
>    information interesting.

>    And, I have a great grandmother who was Jewish and Wintered in Tucson
>    in the 1940s.  Tom, thanks for showing me this archive.  It may help me
>    track down some information about where she lived and what she did in
>    Tucson.
	At one time you claimed to be Catholic and then you claimed to be a
Unitarian, and all the time I knew you were lying. I could see in your
writing.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:31 PST 1995
Article: 16294 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Zundel > "nazi Home Page" > Zundel = Dirty Tricks
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:12:52 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4aur2u$hm9@zippy.cais.net>
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	Go to Webcrawler (search), type in Zundel, up comes the listing,
second one at the top "nazi Home Page", click, up comes the page.

              "INDEPENDANT WHITE RACIALISTS"
                       "Your skin is your uniform"
         
                         A 2x3 inch Swastika

                     "Your flag is your voice"

	 Some copy. Check it out your self.
	
Then you are given your first option to go deeper into the site.
                       _ "The Zundel site" _

                               How witty
                 Who is behind it?   Annonymous.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 16:50:33 PST 1995
Article: 16309 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:29:35 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]
>>	Should we consider all the tales of the Holocaust story, there are
>>scores of mass graves, taking into consideration the camps and
>>Einsatzguppen activity. In fact some explicit locations are directly
>>referred to, or at least, near exact locations, such as "next to
>>Crematoria II", "just outside the camp" or "grave yards" of identified
>>towns. In this case, even today, it would be possible to take core
>>samples from certain areas that could show if in fact there were any
>>mass murders and mass burials. Even in those cases where it is said
>>the victims were cremated, in situ, there would be obvious signs, such
>>as pieces of bone and layers of ash.

>Core samples were taken at Treblinka. Ash and bone fragments were
>discovered. Undisturbed soil was encountered at a depth of seven
>meters.

	Source?

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:24 PST 1995
Article: 16270 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:20:48 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Jeff  wrote:

	Jeff,
I read your post here, and nowhere can I find where your post implied
even to minutest degree that Auschwitz was a "sanitorium for corpulent
people", where they had "jacuzzis", "color TVs", "single rooms",
"transistor radios", or "laptop PCs".
	Now why would anyone exaggerate such a implication? 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:25 PST 1995
Article: 16271 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pressac, yes?  Pressac, no?  It all depends
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukhd$ger@zippy.cais.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Web Crawler(say)>Nizkor>Nizkor Home
>> Page>Shofar FTP Archives>pub>camps>Auschwitz>Pressac.

>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>> And for those who would like to take a less circuitous route, the URL
>> is:
>> 
>> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/camps/auschwitz/pressac

>Ms. Ostrov, I can't help noticing that your URL is 51 characters long,
>while Mr. Moran's instructions are 88 characters long.

>Yet Mr. Moran complains about how long it takes him to type URLs!

	Thank god, Tom Moran takes the trouble to write out 88 keystrokes that
people can read in seconds and then can perform in 6 keystrokes and
five clicks.

>(He wrote in another thread, "Well heres another one who prefers typing
>out 900 character URLs instead of clicking those little doodads.")

>Curious!
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:25 PST 1995
Article: 16272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:18 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4aukhq$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48oigj$dfj@zippy.cais.net>  <49i49n$r7b@zippy.cais.net>  <49jf7u$4pc@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <49naa9$gd5@zippy.cais.net>  <4a7kqr$3um@zippy.cais.net> 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Heres how you print revisionist pages; Bring up the copy. Press print.

>In that case, here's how you print Nizkor pages:  bring up the copy.
>Press print.

	When you bring up Nizkor pages, press print. When you bring up Nizkor
FTPs press print, wait for your rig to freeze up, then deboot.

>(Sheesh.)

>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:26 PST 1995
Article: 16274 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:33 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4auki9$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199521364084@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <49k3ic$146u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <49pveo$mu4@zippy.cais.net> <49qcug$ed0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <49stfu$bac@zippy.cais.net>  <4a7kpu$3um@zippy.cais.net>  <4af9h1$cji@zippy.cais.net> 
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> 
>> >On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> >> 	I think the case is one of a mis-trial.
>> 
>> >And you have come to your conclusion based on what evidence?  If you're 
>> >going to argue that the Nazi regime was unfairly accused and convicted of 
>> >its crimes, you might have to read a book, maybe even two or three, to 
>> >support your appeal. 
>> 
>> 	Okay, Marty. Thanks for the specifications. I was wondering how you
>> may react if I came out and said I have read, so many, books. My
>> theory was, if I had come out and said I read 1000 books, say, you
>> would say its not enough. As I said before, Hilberg and Bauer are
>> under going review at this time.  What other one do you suggest? 

>Actually, Mr. Moran, I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that you seem 
>to actually be reading books, at long last. I would have to say, though, 
>that it's not only the quantity of your reading that matters, but the 
>*quality* of your reading comprehension and analytical skill, as well.  
>You have already demonstrated, in your replies to my posts on the Supreme 
>Court's rulings on the display of religious symbols on public property, a 
>remarkable ability to mis-read fairly simple information (I'd be happy to 
>re-post and review those posts if you've forgotten), so I'll confess that 
>I'm already a bit skeptical about what you'll have to say about Hilberg and 
>Bauer.  

>But at least you're reading them--that's a step in the right direction.
>Next, we'll see if you can discuss them intelligently.

	I assume when you say your "skeptical" about what I will have to say,
and whether or not I can "discuss them intelligently", that you will
measure the review by your personal standards, is that not correct? 

>>>>Posted and E-mailed.  Followups to alt.revisionism, please.  E-mailed 
>replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise 
>requested by sender<<<

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

>"When Zsa Zsa Gabor represents a dose of reality,
>can madness be far behind?" --Griffy





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:27 PST 1995
Article: 16276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukir$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aa3bo$gcm@zippy.cais.net>  <4agiua$148u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4akaeb$4g9@zippy.cais.net> <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4aor08$414@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
>(John Morris) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>	My map ("World Atlas" Rand McNally) shows the "(Vistula River)"
>>>running east - west north of Warsaw. Further north it is identified as
>>>the "Wista".
>>>        It shows the "Wista" running through or immediately adjacent
>>>to Krakow. Evidentally "Vistula" is another name or foriegn version of
>>>the river. 

>>It's not my fault that you can't read a map.

>And perhaps if Mr. Moran were to learn to navigate the web as the rest
>of the world does, he might be able to learn to read a map :>)
>
	My source has been explained. Do you know anything about the Wista
being also called the Vistula, or vice versa? Now that you have gone
after the one grain of black on the whole beach of white sand, which
turned out only to be gray, maybe you would like to continue on with
commenting on the white sand. See article "HA, HA. How about this. Er
.."

=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:27 PST 1995
Article: 16277 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:23:30 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4auklu$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <418956435wnr@stumpy.news.demon.co.uk>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82


	"Adolph Hitler"
        by John Toland

	Chapter 27
'"And with the beast of the Earth"'
    "April 1943 to April 1944"

	"But the man who did most to hinder the atrocities to the East was a
thirty four year old German lawyer who worked for Himmler. Konrad
Morgen ... had become imbued with the ethics of the law from his
student days and even as an assistant SS judge was outspoken in his
disapproval of illegality whoever committed it. His judgements, based
on the evidence, so exasperated his superiors that Morgen was posted
to a front-line SS division as punishment. Because of his outstanding
reputation he was transferred in 1943 to the SDs Financial Crimes
Office ... Early that summer he was given a routine investigative
mission to clear up a long-standing corruption case at Buchenwald
concentration camp. The commodant, Karl Koch, had been suspected of of
hiring out camp laborers to civilian employers, racketeering in food
supplies ...
	Morgen journyed in July to Weimar ... and quietly began his research.
To his surprise he found the concentration camp, located on a hill
above Wiemar, a prospect pleasing to the eye. The installations were
clean and freshly painted: the grounds covered with grass and
flowers." The prisoners appeared to be healthy, sun tanned ..." 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:28 PST 1995
Article: 16282 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:06:47 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aun72$h0e@zippy.cais.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
Random House College Dictionary

"Vistula: a river in Poland, flowing N from the Carpathian Mountains
past Warsaw into the Baltic near Danzig. ab. 650 mi. long. Polish,
Wista. German, Weichael." 


	Like one of those table top demonstrations with the ball bearings
hanging by strings; take the end bearing and bring it bake and let it
go in the direction of the next bearing and this bearing in turn hits
the next until it goes through the whole line resulting in them
eventually clacking back and forth hitting into each other, Danny
Keren then Morris then Hilary then Van Alstine jump on Tom Moran's
little faux pas and ignore the rest. 

'Oh look, we found one grain of black sand on the beach, therefore the
whole beach is black.
	Would any of the other ball bearings like to sign on? 















From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:29 PST 1995
Article: 16283 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:11:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4aung2$h0e@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aetd9$9qt@zippy.cais.net> <4ahi1f$th5@zippy.cais.net> <4amqv7$95@zippy.cais.net> <14DEC199515050562@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <4amqv7$95@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>             - "South West Jewish Archives" -
>> (Webcrawler > Jews > Southwestern Jewish Archives > Crypto-Jews)

>    Thanks Tom.  For the rest of the world, the address is:

>         http://dizzy.library.arizona.edu/images/swja/swjalist.html

>    Its a fascinating site.  I finally went and looked at it today.  I
>    don't see what it has to do with the Holocaust, but I found in the
>    information interesting.

>    And, I have a great grandmother who was Jewish and Wintered in Tucson
>    in the 1940s.  Tom, thanks for showing me this archive.  It may help me
>    track down some information about where she lived and what she did in
>    Tucson.
	At one time you claimed to be Catholic and then you claimed to be a
Unitarian, and all the time I knew you were lying. I could see in your
writing.

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:30 PST 1995
Article: 16294 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Zundel > "nazi Home Page" > Zundel = Dirty Tricks
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 15:12:52 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4aur2u$hm9@zippy.cais.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

	
	Go to Webcrawler (search), type in Zundel, up comes the listing,
second one at the top "nazi Home Page", click, up comes the page.

              "INDEPENDANT WHITE RACIALISTS"
                       "Your skin is your uniform"
         
                         A 2x3 inch Swastika

                     "Your flag is your voice"

	 Some copy. Check it out your self.
	
Then you are given your first option to go deeper into the site.
                       _ "The Zundel site" _

                               How witty
                 Who is behind it?   Annonymous.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 16 21:46:32 PST 1995
Article: 16309 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:29:35 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4av339$jed@zippy.cais.net>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]
>>	Should we consider all the tales of the Holocaust story, there are
>>scores of mass graves, taking into consideration the camps and
>>Einsatzguppen activity. In fact some explicit locations are directly
>>referred to, or at least, near exact locations, such as "next to
>>Crematoria II", "just outside the camp" or "grave yards" of identified
>>towns. In this case, even today, it would be possible to take core
>>samples from certain areas that could show if in fact there were any
>>mass murders and mass burials. Even in those cases where it is said
>>the victims were cremated, in situ, there would be obvious signs, such
>>as pieces of bone and layers of ash.

>Core samples were taken at Treblinka. Ash and bone fragments were
>discovered. Undisturbed soil was encountered at a depth of seven
>meters.

	Source?

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:31 PST 1995
Article: 16270 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:20:48 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4aukgs$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <418956435wnr@stumpy.news.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
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Jeff  wrote:

	Jeff,
I read your post here, and nowhere can I find where your post implied
even to minutest degree that Auschwitz was a "sanitorium for corpulent
people", where they had "jacuzzis", "color TVs", "single rooms",
"transistor radios", or "laptop PCs".
	Now why would anyone exaggerate such a implication? 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:32 PST 1995
Article: 16271 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pressac, yes?  Pressac, no?  It all depends
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukhd$ger@zippy.cais.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Web Crawler(say)>Nizkor>Nizkor Home
>> Page>Shofar FTP Archives>pub>camps>Auschwitz>Pressac.

>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>> And for those who would like to take a less circuitous route, the URL
>> is:
>> 
>> ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/camps/auschwitz/pressac

>Ms. Ostrov, I can't help noticing that your URL is 51 characters long,
>while Mr. Moran's instructions are 88 characters long.

>Yet Mr. Moran complains about how long it takes him to type URLs!

	Thank god, Tom Moran takes the trouble to write out 88 keystrokes that
people can read in seconds and then can perform in 6 keystrokes and
five clicks.

>(He wrote in another thread, "Well heres another one who prefers typing
>out 900 character URLs instead of clicking those little doodads.")

>Curious!
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:33 PST 1995
Article: 16272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:18 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4aukhq$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <48oigj$dfj@zippy.cais.net>  <49i49n$r7b@zippy.cais.net>  <49jf7u$4pc@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <49naa9$gd5@zippy.cais.net>  <4a7kqr$3um@zippy.cais.net> 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Heres how you print revisionist pages; Bring up the copy. Press print.

>In that case, here's how you print Nizkor pages:  bring up the copy.
>Press print.

	When you bring up Nizkor pages, press print. When you bring up Nizkor
FTPs press print, wait for your rig to freeze up, then deboot.

>(Sheesh.)

>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:34 PST 1995
Article: 16274 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOW MANY and WHERE?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:33 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4auki9$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <49e5f0$983@zippy.cais.net> <29NOV199521364084@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <49k3ic$146u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <49pveo$mu4@zippy.cais.net> <49qcug$ed0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <49stfu$bac@zippy.cais.net>  <4a7kpu$3um@zippy.cais.net>  <4af9h1$cji@zippy.cais.net> 
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> 
>> >On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote:

>> >> 	I think the case is one of a mis-trial.
>> 
>> >And you have come to your conclusion based on what evidence?  If you're 
>> >going to argue that the Nazi regime was unfairly accused and convicted of 
>> >its crimes, you might have to read a book, maybe even two or three, to 
>> >support your appeal. 
>> 
>> 	Okay, Marty. Thanks for the specifications. I was wondering how you
>> may react if I came out and said I have read, so many, books. My
>> theory was, if I had come out and said I read 1000 books, say, you
>> would say its not enough. As I said before, Hilberg and Bauer are
>> under going review at this time.  What other one do you suggest? 

>Actually, Mr. Moran, I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that you seem 
>to actually be reading books, at long last. I would have to say, though, 
>that it's not only the quantity of your reading that matters, but the 
>*quality* of your reading comprehension and analytical skill, as well.  
>You have already demonstrated, in your replies to my posts on the Supreme 
>Court's rulings on the display of religious symbols on public property, a 
>remarkable ability to mis-read fairly simple information (I'd be happy to 
>re-post and review those posts if you've forgotten), so I'll confess that 
>I'm already a bit skeptical about what you'll have to say about Hilberg and 
>Bauer.  

>But at least you're reading them--that's a step in the right direction.
>Next, we'll see if you can discuss them intelligently.

	I assume when you say your "skeptical" about what I will have to say,
and whether or not I can "discuss them intelligently", that you will
measure the review by your personal standards, is that not correct? 

>>>>Posted and E-mailed.  Followups to alt.revisionism, please.  E-mailed 
>replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise 
>requested by sender<<<

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

>"When Zsa Zsa Gabor represents a dose of reality,
>can madness be far behind?" --Griffy





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:34 PST 1995
Article: 16276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:21:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aukir$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aa3bo$gcm@zippy.cais.net>  <4agiua$148u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4akaeb$4g9@zippy.cais.net> <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4aor08$414@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4aop86$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
>(John Morris) wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>>	My map ("World Atlas" Rand McNally) shows the "(Vistula River)"
>>>running east - west north of Warsaw. Further north it is identified as
>>>the "Wista".
>>>        It shows the "Wista" running through or immediately adjacent
>>>to Krakow. Evidentally "Vistula" is another name or foriegn version of
>>>the river. 

>>It's not my fault that you can't read a map.

>And perhaps if Mr. Moran were to learn to navigate the web as the rest
>of the world does, he might be able to learn to read a map :>)
>
	My source has been explained. Do you know anything about the Wista
being also called the Vistula, or vice versa? Now that you have gone
after the one grain of black on the whole beach of white sand, which
turned out only to be gray, maybe you would like to continue on with
commenting on the white sand. See article "HA, HA. How about this. Er
.."

=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:35 PST 1995
Article: 16277 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A VISIT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 13:23:30 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4auklu$ger@zippy.cais.net>
References: <418956435wnr@stumpy.news.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82


	"Adolph Hitler"
        by John Toland

	Chapter 27
'"And with the beast of the Earth"'
    "April 1943 to April 1944"

	"But the man who did most to hinder the atrocities to the East was a
thirty four year old German lawyer who worked for Himmler. Konrad
Morgen ... had become imbued with the ethics of the law from his
student days and even as an assistant SS judge was outspoken in his
disapproval of illegality whoever committed it. His judgements, based
on the evidence, so exasperated his superiors that Morgen was posted
to a front-line SS division as punishment. Because of his outstanding
reputation he was transferred in 1943 to the SDs Financial Crimes
Office ... Early that summer he was given a routine investigative
mission to clear up a long-standing corruption case at Buchenwald
concentration camp. The commodant, Karl Koch, had been suspected of of
hiring out camp laborers to civilian employers, racketeering in food
supplies ...
	Morgen journyed in July to Weimar ... and quietly began his research.
To his surprise he found the concentration camp, located on a hill
above Wiemar, a prospect pleasing to the eye. The installations were
clean and freshly painted: the grounds covered with grass and
flowers." The prisoners appeared to be healthy, sun tanned ..." 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:36 PST 1995
Article: 16282 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 14:06:47 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <4aun72$h0e@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aa3bo$gcm@zippy.cais.net>  <4agiua$148u@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4akaeb$4g9@zippy.cais.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.237
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
Random House College Dictionary

"Vistula: a river in Poland, flowing N from the Carpathian Mountains
past Warsaw into the Baltic near Danzig. ab. 650 mi. long. Polish,
Wista. German, Weichael." 


	Like one of those table top demonstrations with the ball bearings
hanging by strings; take the end bearing and bring it bake and let it
go in the direction of the next bearing and this bearing in turn hits
the next until it goes through the whole line resulting in them
eventually clacking back and forth hitting into each other, Danny
Keren then Morris then Hilary then Van Alstine jump on Tom Moran's
little faux pas and ignore the rest. 

'Oh look, we found one grain of black sand on the beach, therefore the
whole beach is black.
	Would any of the other ball bearings like to sign on? 















From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 09:27:38 PST 1995
Article: 16309 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:29:35 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4av339$jed@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4amrfo$b8@zippy.cais.net> <4aoqln$14c0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.191
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]
>>	Should we consider all the tales of the Holocaust story, there are
>>scores of mass graves, taking into consideration the camps and
>>Einsatzguppen activity. In fact some explicit locations are directly
>>referred to, or at least, near exact locations, such as "next to
>>Crematoria II", "just outside the camp" or "grave yards" of identified
>>towns. In this case, even today, it would be possible to take core
>>samples from certain areas that could show if in fact there were any
>>mass murders and mass burials. Even in those cases where it is said
>>the victims were cremated, in situ, there would be obvious signs, such
>>as pieces of bone and layers of ash.

>Core samples were taken at Treblinka. Ash and bone fragments were
>discovered. Undisturbed soil was encountered at a depth of seven
>meters.

	Source?

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 14:20:04 PST 1995
Article: 16473 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rock and the Hard Place
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:02:10 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4b1pbs$5v5@zippy.cais.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.231


	The human body is 70% water, which would make it the number one
consideration for any cremation 'theories'.
	Of course one could claim that the cremated were emaciated to 'skin
and bones'.
	But then this would not be supported by photos of life in
concentration camps.
	But then one could point to those common photos of emaciated people in
excavations.
	But then that would be at the end of the war and not in agreement with
photos that show life before the end of the war.
	Maybe there are some who would claim that a emaciatied state would
make it easier to cremate people.
	But then this would  put a dent in any assertions that mass cremations
were self sustained by the fats of the victims.





From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 17 14:20:05 PST 1995
Article: 16477 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "AUSCHWITZ: A History in Photographs"
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 18:02:31 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.231

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	
>Random House College Dictionary

>"Vistula: a river in Poland, flowing N from the Carpathian Mountains
>past Warsaw into the Baltic near Danzig. ab. 650 mi. long. Polish,
>Wista. German, Weichael." 

	Tom Moran's source, Rand McNally "World Atlas" shows the "Wista"
passing by Auschwitz, where it passes by Warsaw it is identified as
the "Vistula".


>	Like one of those table top demonstrations with the ball bearings
>hanging by strings; take the end bearing and bring it bake and let it
>go in the direction of the next bearing and this bearing in turn hits
>the next until it goes through the whole line resulting in them
>eventually clacking back and forth hitting into each other, Danny
>Keren then Morris then Hilary then Van Alstine then Morrison jump on Tom Moran's
>little faux pas and ignore the rest.

>'Oh look, we found one grain of grey sand on the beach, therefore the
>whole beach is black'.
>	Would any of the other ball bearings like to sign on? 
              New ball bearing has signed on and has been included
above.
















From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 18 08:51:13 PST 1995
Article: 16582 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ADL  "friends of free speech" excepting ...
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:02:16 GMT
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

	
	Letter to the Editor,  L.A. Times,  Nov. 21, 1991

                   "Censorship and Computers"

	"The Anti-Defamation League questioned Prodigy Consumer Network's
interpretation and application of it't self inposed guidelines for
determining the appropriateness of messages posted on it't bulletin
boards.  I did not, contrary to Dershowitz's assertion, demand that
Prodigy '"censor"' anti-Semitic messages. The ADL, counts itself among
the staunchest friends of free speech. The questions raised by
Dershowitz as to whether computer services should impose such
guidelines is not the point. In light of the fact that Prodigy has
guidelines, we brought to their attention complaints we recieved about
certain messages that appeared on Prodigy bulletin boards, including
messages claiming the Holocaust is a hoax. Prodigy concluded these
messages were not offensive. We disagree. Even Dershowitz disagrees.
	Dershowitz is wrong to claim that ADL's actions '"aggravated the
problem."'  As the '"watchdog of the Jewish Community against
anti-Semitism"', we believe it is better to expose institutional
racism and anti-Semitism, if it exist, than to pretend it does not.
ADL did not '"mainstream"' the bigotry, it exposed it.
	The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be
offended. Constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe, of Harvard, has
stated his belief that, with regard to computerized communications,
the issues invovled are not adequately addressed by our legal system.
However, since Prodigy has promulgated guidelines and taken the
responsibility for drawing lines and making judgement calls as to what
is and is not offensive, we and their subscribers have every right to
question their decisions without being labeled promoters of
censorship."
                                                 TZIVIA SSHWARTZ
                                   Western States Associate Counsel
                              Anti- Defamation League, Los Angeles

	What a crock of crap. '...among the staunchest friends of freedom of
speech", "...complaints they recieved..."  The only example they put
in here as to these complaints concerns Holocaust denial. Their own
interests. They are in denial by stating they did not "demand" Prodigy
'"censor"' '"anti-Semitic"' messages and then raising it as a
legitimate topic for Constitiutional revisionism. 
	"The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be
offended."  All those Palestinians, Arabs of other nations, Muslims
and Catholics have the right not to be offended, yet this ADL has
leveled all sorts of vile accusations against them and they don't go
crying for special interpretations and application of our free speech
clause. In true ADL form, they cite a "Constitutional law professor
.. from Harvard" as a selling point for their view. One man? Some
weak minded academite. "Even Dershowitz disagrees"? Dershowitz plays
himself as a champion of freedom of speech so he can play that even
Holocaust denial is objectionable enough to warrant censorship. This
is the good cop bad cop practice that so often accompanies the
writings of this faction. I would suggest a full vote before the whole
United States as to what should or should not be censored on the
Internet. Hows that for democratic procedure? Why leave it up to weak
people in position to submit to the standards of those who sleeze
around to have our Constitution be specialized for their particular
cause.  
	The ADL and associated organizations have their concept of what they
think is offensive, and get their complaints in wherever they want,
but in the end they're the ones who have the big history of
offensiveness against whole nations, whole peoples, whole religions,
and they express it with regularity right in our faces, right in our
public medias, galore.
	Right here in their own directive, REVISIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM.




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 18 08:51:14 PST 1995
Article: 16583 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zundel > "nazi Home Page" > Zundel = Dirty Tricks
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:10:50 GMT
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>	
>>	Go to Webcrawler (search), type in Zundel, up comes the listing,
>>second one at the top "nazi Home Page", click, up comes the page.

>>              "INDEPENDANT WHITE RACIALISTS"
>>                       "Your skin is your uniform"
>>         
>>                         A 2x3 inch Swastika

>>                     "Your flag is your voice"

>>	 Some copy. Check it out your self.
>>	
>>Then you are given your first option to go deeper into the site.
>>                       _ "The Zundel site" _

>>                               How witty
>>                 Who is behind it?   Annonymous.

>Why don't you ask Daren Brittell (brittell@cts.com)?  He is a White
>supremacist whose posts over the following .sig:

>           ******************************************
>            The Independent White Racialist Homepage 
>                   Your skin is your uniform,
>                    your flag is your voice.
>            http://www.geopages.com/CapitolHill/1251         
>           ******************************************

>Zuendel's ISP is also cts.com. Brittell's address is the only mailto:
>"doodad" on the page (look near the bottom of the page at the "Commy
>Hater" doodad), so I assume it's his page.

>Or ask Tom Metzger of the White Aryan Resistance (as a opposed to
>what? the Black Aryan Resistance?) who also maintains a page at the
>same site:

>     http://www.geopages.com/CapitolHill/1896/

>I know that this will come as a complete surprize to you, little one,
>but Holocaust deniers are, almost to a man, neo-Nazis and other
>assorted racist kooks. You have not been looking at a "dirty trick"
>but the work of Zuendel's allies and kindred spirits.
	"Almost to the man?" I'll make it easy for you. Name the odd men, man
out. Prove anyone named on the idiotic page support or endorses their
name on it.
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 18 08:51:15 PST 1995
Article: 16584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: PROVE IT! MR MORRIS.
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:24:39 GMT
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Jeff  wrote:

	
	This is classic. The article title is "Prove it Mr. Morris" and
another clone answers.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 18 08:51:17 PST 1995
Article: 16592 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Something About Negroes
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:58:12 GMT
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potato@mo.net (Frank Weltner) wrote:

>I like to think of Negroes as ceiling fans without a forward button.
>They're still sort of like ceiling fans.

>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Couch Potato          Creature of Wonderful Ideals
>---------------------------------------------------------------------


>                                 )|(
>                                (o o)
>     *=======================ooO-(_)-Ooo==========================*

>            Helping us all to find a kindler, gentler, view.

	'Oh look, I'm white, therefore I share in the glory of all individual
white attainments.' 



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 19 08:03:04 PST 1995
Article: 16721 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:32:31 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


    Nizkor > Shofar FTP > camps > Mauthausen > Hungary .01

	"The fate of the Jewish settlement in Hungary -- one of the largest in
Europe -- was a desolating climax to the tragic Holocaust period.
Before Hitler came to power in 1933 there were about 800,000 Jews in
greater Hungary, 200,000 of then living in Budapest, where despite an
endemic anti-Semitism, they were at the forefront of culture,
scientific and economic life of the country."

Abram Sachar, "The Redemption of the Unwanted". 1983



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 19 08:03:05 PST 1995
Article: 16726 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionism
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:22:14 GMT
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ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:

>In article ,
>pmagal@texas.net (Patrick Magallanes) wrote:

>> It is my belief that each person who argues that the holocaust never
>> occured, should be forced to visit the remnants of one of the death camps.

>It is my belief that each person who argues that those who question
>certain aspects of the traditional Holocaust story, should be forced to
>study English until they understand that Holocaust revisionists do not
>deny the Holocaust.
	Oh you don't know how to read or write English either? I thought I was
the only one. I've been told that 36 times in the last four weeks.
Whats your score?


>-- 
>Greg Raven
>ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
>http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 20 09:26:36 PST 1995
Article: 16908 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: can.general,alt.revisionism,soc.history,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Zundel's UFO Research on the WEB
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:13:35 GMT
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roger@silvertone.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) wrote:

>In article  ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) writes:
>>In article <4adn2g$9n9@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com>,
>>gtaylor@shell1.msn.fullfeed.com (Gregory Taylor) wrote:

>>> You ever notice that there aren't *any* pictures of Zundel and Col. Harlan
>>> Sanders together? I mean *ever?*

>>Ever notice how there are no photos of Nazi gas chambers? I mean *ever?*

>There are no photos of your parents fucking, either.  Care to claim
>it never took place?
	WOW! What venom.
>Roger




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 20 09:26:37 PST 1995
Article: 16910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yankee lies about the Iraqi Holocaust
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:23:27 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Alexander Baron  wrote:

>A while ago some damned liar claimed that "only" about 5,000 Iraqis had been
>killed during the Gulf:


>The following is from ON IMPACT, May 1991, Greenpeace, Washington, pages 40-1:
>"It is estimated that 100,000 - 200,000 Iraqi military personnel, 5,000-10,000
>Iraqi civilians, and 2,000-5,000 Kuwaitis died in the course of the air war and
>the ground war."


>The Red Cross in London confirmed that; they thought the figure espoused in
>this newsgroup was a sick joke. 
	According to some reports 100s of 1000s died are are at this time in
danger of dying at this time due to sanctions that only the U.S. is
pressing to continue. In fact even Saudi Arabia is now calling for the
lifting of sanctions. Why is the U.S. the single most major power
still calling for the sanctions? Because Iraq is Israeli's enemy.  
>-- 
>Alexander Baron

>"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the
>accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 20 09:26:38 PST 1995
Article: 16912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Surpirse for Moran
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:32:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  
>>                                 How witty
>>                   Who is behind it?   Annonymous.
>>  
>>  
>>>>>
>	Ernst Zundel is behind it.  He's a nazi.
	I'm surprised. Surprise me again and prove it. Now try to come back
with something that would follow the codes of U.S. legal procedure.
Those goofy little unimaginary statements you reply with won't do it.
Your failure to return with any proof will be your own indictment.
>	Surprised, little boy?

>	--YFE




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 20 15:15:25 PST 1995
Article: 16953 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: - Auschwitz: The more photos I see the more I realize what ...
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 18:46:31 GMT
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                     ... never happened.-
	
	Lycos or Webcrawler > Holocaust > Cybrary of the Holocaust

                "Take a Virtual Tour of Auschwitz"
                   "A Christian at Auschwitz"

	"Part IV, KL-I (Auschwitz")
	
	"The same day I saw my first horror camp, I visited every nook and
cranny. I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify
about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belif or
assumption that the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda."
                                Attributed to Dwight D. Eisenhower

	So begins the "virtual tour" of Auschwitz. After viewing up to three
hundred photos of Auschwitz, some taken during the time of its
operation, some taken immeditaly on liberation and some taken years
later, I can only wonder what Ike would have been able to testify to.
	The writer of the accompaning text to the photos presented lets on
that he is startled by the small size of Auschwitz KL I, the main
camp. In fact I wasn't even aware of it's excedingly small area until
I took note of this referrence and then checked out the diagrams
supplied by the site and else where more closely. It would be a
overstatement to say that Auschwitz is and was even the size of a
standard pro football stadium, excluding parking areas.

	The virtual tour takes us through the trip via a lot of copy, where
the writers attempt at being deeply poetic in discribing mundane
things about the camp is apparent, and we can click up various
segments to get a photograph. I will list a few examples without
comment, until we get to any that would suggest they would offer us
proof of any mass extermination taking place.

	"a large institutional building"
	"double rows of pale fence post"
	"the slogan that arcs the gateway"
	"the imposing dreariness of the camp kitchen"

	Eventually we get to "a walk to Crematorium I" which turns out to be a
small tree lined street between two story barrack like buildings,
almost appearing like some summer camp. A tower is viewable about a
150 yards down the road.
	The nest clickable that seems like it should offer something, is, "the
exit to Crematorium I" which is a path between barbed wired posts with
a guard tower at the end, about 200 yards away.
	Then up comes "potable ventilation stacks..." which shows at sodden
cover with some short vent stacks. The copy makes a point of telling
the reader that a nearby tall smoke stack is not attached to the
subject picture.
	We then come to the "prisoners entrance" of Crematorium I, which shows
the entrance to the sodden covered structure which is about eight feet
high and embanked by earth. The entrance is a walk between a sloping
wall to a door about the standard 28" wide, hardly a good design for
mass evacuating hundreds of dead bodies, over a continuous time.
	Inside the structure "the killing room", said to have been once a
mortuary and converted to a gas chamber. Here, as in other Holocaust
asserted sites and books the word "crematoria" is used in lieu or the
same context as a "gas chamber" and it appears that wherever we see
the term "crematorium" it means the whole pocedure, from gassing to
cremation. The building is a end shot from ground level of the
previous picture. It is a concrete structure with sloping earth all
around and inside it has massive concreted overheaded lentals about
six feet apart, and could have been even a bomb shelter.
	We then get to where we can click up what should be evidence for mass
cremation, "crematorium I double muffle ovens", which turns out to be
two chambers in the foreground and two in the back ground, all having
doors about 30x30 inches, hardly a sufficient set up for cremating
thousands of people a day.
	Then there is "another view of the furnaces and charging trollys",
which shows the four chambers from another angle with trollys on
narrow gauge track leading up to two of the chambers. This appears the
same scene presented in another book of photos on Auschwitz, which
shows the carts to have hoods that can keep any contents intended for
the firing contained until it is in, like refuse.
	"I looked around behind the ovens", takes us to the rear of the four
chambers, two in the foreground and two in the background. Each one
has a steel door about 18x18 inches, and cinder removal doors below.
No other apparatus is shown that would show heat transfer, like
blowers into the chambers.
	Finally at the end we come to a section with "a swimming pool", and
the photo caption stresses it is a "S.S." swimming pool.

	So as it turns out, by this photo survey, Auschwitz KL I has only a
"Crematorium I". 

	The next clickable in the main index is "Part V, KL II (Birkenau)"
	
	The format stays the same with same attempt at being poetic and giving
us the options of clicking up segments of it for the "virtual tour".
	Our first option is "in the shadow of the guard house". But still we
should be looking for the real evidence of mass extermination and
disposal, and after scrolling through; 
	"a red and white unversal, No Smoking sign"
	"prefabricated stables"
	"painted circles bearing bunk numbers"
	"Sauberkeit ist Gesundeit - (cleanliness is health)"
we get to "skeltons" which turns out to be a panoramic of a section of
camp that is totaly razed and identified as the "family camp". Family
camp?
	Ah, then we get to "the remains of Crematoria II" leading to a photo
with the caption "a buckled floor below a stout chimney" which is not
discernable in the picture. What it shows is a collapsed sctructure in
a field with nothing else around it, a sloping surface jutting up at
an angle to about 18 feet with the appearance of being originally
about 25x25 feet.
	We then come up to "the changing room" which turns out to be a small
two story lone building building, off in the distance nestled among
some trees.
	Finally we come to "How this crematorium and Crematorium III appeared"
which turns out to be a photograph of a visitors information panel
like we would find at a recreational park. It shows, what we should
expect is a rendition of the facilities squared off in one corner, but
is so obscure we can make nothing of it. The panel also shows what
appears to be a ground plan of the special facilities.

	At the end of the main index under "A Virtual Tour ..." we find we can
click up the ground plan of KL I and KL II.
	KL I Auschwiitz, shows the pattern of the complex, which is basically
a rectangle with thirty barrack structures and the camp kitchen, which
is evidentally the kitchen for the whole KL I, KL II, KL III
(Monowitz) sections.  The diagram is stated to be "Adapted from 1993
Panstwowe Muzeum w Oswiecimiu tour guide and shows a large building
directly associated with the KL I identified as the laundry and a
smaller asociated delousing area. Another source for a simular diagram
is in Yehuda Bauer's "A History of the Holocaust". In Bauers version
the laundry structure is omitted. We also get the idea that buildings
identified as "SS Chief Medical Office", "Administration" and "Command
Post" (Bauers identification) are of the same types as those that are
depicted as camp barracks.
	The identifying lettering in the "Virtual Tour ..." diagrams for
individual buildings is so obscure that it is for the most part
useless. Bauer's depictions are bigger and evidentally redrawn. In the
diagram for Birchenau the Virtual site's diagrams show those buildings
said to be upkept as being blocked in solid, which the Virtual site
caption says are "suspect" that they are "maintained in original
state". Nevertheless, in the museums rendition four large structures
are shown to be maintained, which in Bauer's rendition are identified
as gas chambers and crematoria. Bauer's shows thenm to have large
smoke stacks. His also shows a rail system running through the camp,
entering at one side and fanning off into three parallel rails and
converging to one track and terminating between two of the buildings
said to be extermination buildings. A road is also shown to run
parallel with the tracks. The museum's map is obscure as to all this.
	Both maps show the large structures to be in the same proximity, with
the two at the end of the rail and two more separated by a road a few
hundred yards away, identified in Bauer's map as gassing chambers and
crematoria. The two sites are connected by a road that runs by a large
structure identified as a "bath".  The overall size of the Birchenau
section seems to be about the same size as a pro football stadium
complex, including the parking lots.
	Just from viewing these ground plans of the camps is enough to
question the idea of them being facilities for mass extermination that
killed millions, ten thousand a day. Further the claim that they were
set up to keep the whole thing secret, secret from the surrounding
communities and the internies is rediculous. The small area involved
and the numbers said to have been exterminated puts the whole story
beyond absurd.
	The more people who visit Auschwitz the more the truth will be known.
There just isn't the minutest convincing evidence to support the idea
of mass ext		ermination.   
	  



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 21 09:45:55 PST 1995
Article: 17127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 13:35:45 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4bbrgc$dkh@zippy.cais.net>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[snip]
>>	Should we consider all the tales of the Holocaust story, there are
>>scores of mass graves, taking into consideration the camps and
>>Einsatzguppen activity. In fact some explicit locations are directly
>>referred to, or at least, near exact locations, such as "next to
>>Crematoria II", "just outside the camp" or "grave yards" of identified
>>towns. In this case, even today, it would be possible to take core
>>samples from certain areas that could show if in fact there were any
>>mass murders and mass burials. Even in those cases where it is said
>>the victims were cremated, in situ, there would be obvious signs, such
>>as pieces of bone and layers of ash.

>Core samples were taken at Treblinka. Ash and bone fragments were
>discovered. Undisturbed soil was encountered at a depth of seven
>meters.

	Again, SOURCE?

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca





From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 22 10:57:39 PST 1995
Article: 17314 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL  "friends of free speech" excepting ...
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:46:14 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.245

ccamfiel@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Camfield) wrote:

>Do you deny being anti-semitic?  Hmm....

>Read the article.  It is TRUE that Prodigy CHOSE to police articles on
>its system.  By doing so, it HAS made itself at least possibly 
>responsible for the messages there.  This is not a belief held by
>just one lawyer as you claim.  In a completely unrelated context,
>the lawyer teaching the computers & law course that I took made
>much the same statement.

>If people don't like what they see, they can complain to Prodigy, and
>Prodigy has to do something about it.  I think it was a mistake on
>Prodigy's part to start doing any policing at all.

	I'm calling Prodigy to complain about what you're putting out here,
and they better "do something about it".

>Don't whine about it.
>-- 
>               Christopher Camfield      ccamfield@uwaterloo.ca 
>             1996 BMath Joint CS/C&O  [1999 BA Classical Studies]
>        WeMakeAPieceOfArt AndWePutItOnTheWall SecurityGuardsCantGuardIt
>                                    Mandala




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 22 13:16:33 PST 1995
Article: 17330 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL  "friends of free speech" excepting ...
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:23:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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	          N.Y. Times, Dec. 1995
		(Quarter page advertisement)

            Heading - Four x four inch Star of David

	"It is time to build bridges, not walls."

	"The assassination of Prime Minister Rabin exposed the divisiveness
among Jews in Israel and Jews in America.
	And, to the horror of most of the world, it exposed what disagreement
- carried to the extreme - can produce.
	It was a terrible lesson about the power of words to divide and
destroy. And a somber reminder about the virtues of peaceful debate
versus poisonous declaration. Debate is, after all, one of the pillars
of the democratic way of life. We are free to disagree. But it is all
too evident that disagreement, carried beyond debate to extremes, must
not be allowed to flourish unchallenged in a democracy."

	Of course they are the ones that will determine what words deserve
debate or should "not be allowed". And of course their methods of
"challenge" is evident.
 
	"Whether it be in Israel ... Or here in America, where hatred is being
inflamed by the poisonous disinformation of bigots of all kinds, left
right, white and black." 

	Of course we should presume that "the poisonous disinformation" is
foremost revisionism.

	"... And we continue to urge all Americans, not just Jews, to stop
words of hate ...".

	Of course the record of their own words shows that they consider
revisionism as a movement of "hate" and "anti-Semitism". 



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 22 18:21:44 PST 1995
Article: 17409 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL  "friends of free speech" excepting ...
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:36:17 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4bffh8$5lh@zippy.cais.net>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article , 
>ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:

>>Isn't it amazing that Holocaust revisionism, which we are told is totally
>>baseless and easily refuted b mountains of evidence, must be censored?

>Holocaust denial certainly isn't censored here, Mr. Raven,
>unless, of course, one considers your strange reluctance to
>participate.

	One should wonder why Simon Weisenthal isn't out here?

>-- 
>     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:37 PST 1995
Article: 17413 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Surpirse for Moran
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:42:20 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4bffsj$5o2@zippy.cais.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	"The Jews are Gods chosen people".



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:41 PST 1995
Article: 17468 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Surpirse for Master Moran
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:25:38 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4bhe5u$hrn@zippy.cais.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>  	I'm surprised. Surprise me again and prove it. Now try to come back
>>  with something that would follow the codes of U.S. legal procedure.
>>  Those goofy little unimaginary statements you reply with won't do it.
>>
>>>>>
>	A piece of cake, Master Moran.  Provide me the court-room and
>stand back.   Have you read what the man has written?  Have you ordered
>an official nazi UFO frisbee from the man yet?

>	--YFE
	The court room is here. Now procede with your opening statement. No
more change of venues either.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:42 PST 1995
Article: 17469 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:28:19 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4bheau$hrn@zippy.cais.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:


	:"The Jews are Gods chosen people."



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:42 PST 1995
Article: 17472 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the photos of Stalin's victims?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:33:33 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4bhekp$hrn@zippy.cais.net>
References: <4aar08$1kd6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>   <4b8oq2$p5a@decaxp.harvard.edu> <4b98da$8fs@access5.digex.net>
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>    Followups set to alt.revisionism only.

>In article <4b8oq2$p5a@decaxp.harvard.edu>,
>Mark Staloff  wrote:
>>Frank Weltner (potato@mo.net) wrote: : 
>>
>>: Stalin killed 100 million people, kulaks, peasants, intellectuals. 
>>
>>Just...don't...even...try...stunts...like...this.
>>
>>100 million, eh?  I don't believe you.  I want their *NAMES*.

>    And photos, don't forget them.  Oh, and also how many died by 
>starvation, how many by shooting, how many froze to death, etc.  
>Remember, according to Tom Moran if you can't supply all of that you have 
>no proof that any of it occurred.

	Poor Stein. Now that you ask, where are the photos? 

>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:43 PST 1995
Article: 17473 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treason
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:55:58 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4bhfup$i6d@zippy.cais.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:12159 alt.politics.nationalism.white:9081 alt.revisionism:17473

fresh816@aol.com (Fresh816) wrote:

>Just wondering Milty-boy,

>Why are you so concerned with OUR constitution, when you post from a
>Canadian account?

	As an occupant of the United States I am concerned with the
constitution of Canada since it is in such close proximity. I
recognize that any threats to their constitution could very well
become a precedence against that of the U.S.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 23 12:12:44 PST 1995
Article: 17476 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yankee lies about the Iraqi Holocaust
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 17:04:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4bhge8$iaf@zippy.cais.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.195
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <4b99u8$tfd@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> Alexander Baron  wrote:
>> 
>> >A while ago some damned liar claimed that "only" about 5,000 Iraqis had been
>> >killed during the Gulf:
>> 
>> >The following is from ON IMPACT, May 1991, Greenpeace, Washington, pages 
>> >40-1:"It is estimated that 100,000 - 200,000 Iraqi military personnel, 
>> >5,000-10,000 Iraqi civilians, and 2,000-5,000 Kuwaitis died in the course of 
>> >the air war and the ground war."
>> 
>> >The Red Cross in London confirmed that; they thought the figure espoused in
>> >this newsgroup was a sick joke. 

>And from what Red Cross report is this Moran? 

	How is it you selected the Red Cross as the only source of what is
happening in Iraq?

>> According to some reports 100s of 1000s died are are at this time in
>> danger of dying at this time due to sanctions that only the U.S. is
>> pressing to continue. 

>What "some reports" are these, Moran? 

>Moran, you yet again exibit your talent for (intentionally?)
>misrepresenting what was written. The deaths in question were due to
>_military_ action _during_ the war. Not the privations as a result of
>Iraqi intransigence in implementing the  UN declarations it agreed to. 

>> In fact even Saudi Arabia is now calling for the lifting of sanctions. Why is 
>> the U.S. the single most major power still calling for the sanctions?
>Because > Iraq is Israeli's enemy.	

>Could it be because Iraq has refused to implement the UN declarations it
>agreed to?  What a concept. 

	Ther are probably more UN declarations against Israel than ever
agaisnt Iraq. Even the over all vote for war against that nation was
something like 112 for no. It was vetoed by the Security Council with
the U.S. the main bully boy.
	There are probably 10 + resolutions against Israel with the count
classically being 105 to 2. Guess who the 2 are. 
>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 27 08:54:08 PST 1995
Article: 17579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier Quote of the Year
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:53:48 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4brq2c$gas@zippy.cais.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.101.8.247
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>> I just
>> printed the Pressac piece via Netscape to my state-of-the-art "rigii"

>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>> Gee, my rigii prints them too - bought it last year :-)

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>> What kind of rigii, exactly, are we talking about here?
>
	Grow up. Just explain this Nizkor statement: "These files are stored
as '"plaintext"' -- they are prepared for output on a
text-display-only terminal, or an old style fixed-character-width
printer."
        The key words are "prepared for output", "text-display-only
terminal", "old style fixed-character-width printer".
	As I said before, whenever I try to print them out directly, my rig
freezes up, a experience I don't have with others.

	

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I am sorely tempted to nominate this as Denier Quote of the Year.

>Any other nominations, or does this win by default?
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 27 08:54:09 PST 1995
Article: 17580 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz, a secret?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:08:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Message-ID: <4brqtg$geu@zippy.cais.net>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <4aqp9u$pik@vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu   wrote:
>>>From: uroessl1@gwdu19.gwdg.de (Ulrich Roessler)
>>>First you argue because of the absence of clear informations about Auschwitz
>>>for a long time 1942-44 that no exterminations did take place there.
>>
>>   Yes I do. I didn't study all the sources but I know many clues wich
>>  corroborate Eynat study
>>
>>  a) Butz did an extensive review of the N.Y. times during this period
>>  b) Martin Gilber said himself that the extermination of jews in Auschwitz
>>     wasn't 'know' apparently before the mid 1944
>>  c) Laqueurt said it himself in his book

>    Which book?

>    Have you read "Breaking the Silence" by Breitman and Laqueur?  German
>industrialist and Allied agent Eduard Schulte, who was considered quite
>reliable and sober by the OSS, brought out word that it was planned to
>build extermination facilities in Auschwitz.  It is fairly recent
>information; apparently for a long time the identity of the agent was
>misplaced in the wrong box in the National Archives.

	"Fairly recent information", "placed in the srong box". That seems to
be the summary of things. Decades after the war, stuff pops up. Who
found it?

>>   I just said: normally, since there wasn't hundreds of civilians who were
>>   working in those camps contrarely to Auschwitz,

>    But were there hundreds of civilians working in Birkenau?  It is very
>important not to confuse the two camps when making arguments of this sort. 


>>   The quaisy silence over mass gasing at
>>   Auschwitz is unexplanable.

>    You keep using "quaisy."  Do you mean "quasi-silence" (in this
>context, "nearly complete silence")? 

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 27 11:26:30 PST 1995
Article: 17580 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz, a secret?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:08:16 GMT
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mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <4aqp9u$pik@vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu   wrote:
>>>From: uroessl1@gwdu19.gwdg.de (Ulrich Roessler)
>>>First you argue because of the absence of clear informations about Auschwitz
>>>for a long time 1942-44 that no exterminations did take place there.
>>
>>   Yes I do. I didn't study all the sources but I know many clues wich
>>  corroborate Eynat study
>>
>>  a) Butz did an extensive review of the N.Y. times during this period
>>  b) Martin Gilber said himself that the extermination of jews in Auschwitz
>>     wasn't 'know' apparently before the mid 1944
>>  c) Laqueurt said it himself in his book

>    Which book?

>    Have you read "Breaking the Silence" by Breitman and Laqueur?  German
>industrialist and Allied agent Eduard Schulte, who was considered quite
>reliable and sober by the OSS, brought out word that it was planned to
>build extermination facilities in Auschwitz.  It is fairly recent
>information; apparently for a long time the identity of the agent was
>misplaced in the wrong box in the National Archives.

	"Fairly recent information", "placed in the srong box". That seems to
be the summary of things. Decades after the war, stuff pops up. Who
found it?

>>   I just said: normally, since there wasn't hundreds of civilians who were
>>   working in those camps contrarely to Auschwitz,

>    But were there hundreds of civilians working in Birkenau?  It is very
>important not to confuse the two camps when making arguments of this sort. 


>>   The quaisy silence over mass gasing at
>>   Auschwitz is unexplanable.

>    You keep using "quaisy."  Do you mean "quasi-silence" (in this
>context, "nearly complete silence")? 

>    Posted/emailed.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 28 08:05:45 PST 1995
Article: 17759 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No Zyclone - then DDT
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:57:42 GMT
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		         - DACHAU - 

                      By Marcus J. Smith 
               State University of New York Press

Chapter 19, "The Burial Detail"

	"Many of the big guns of the Medical Corps are loaded, and on May 3,
seventy two hours after our arrival in the camps, the barrage begins
that will bring victory against the body lice, the misanthropic,
parasitic, insects responsible for the transmission of typhus fever
>from  person to person. The Army has contributed enough DDT so that
dusting of all the inmates at Dachau and Allach can start. By a
superhuman effort the task is completed in five days. In addition to
the inmates. the official quarantine calls for dusting of all other
personel - Army personel, guards, visitors, Allied officials - when
they leave the inner camp for the outer area. Furthermore, these
persons are required to show their immunization records and be given
typhus vaccine, unless they have received the vaccine during the
previous thirty days. We should like to inoculate the inmates at this
time, but such action will have to wait. Despite the mighty resources
of the Army, there is insufficient vaccine on hand."
	                  
	So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food supplies
were having a tough time getting to the camps, even the Zyclone supply
was cut off. And since even the victorious U.S. Army was short on
supplies of typhus vaccine, we can understand what kind of problems
the Germans would have had getting the vital necessities to the camps
while they were undergoing heavy bombardment of their cities, supplies
and routes.   




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 28 08:05:46 PST 1995
Article: 17760 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Printing Nizkor files
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 15:06:27 GMT
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <4brq2c$gas@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:
>>	Grow up. Just explain this Nizkor statement: "These files are stored
>>as '"plaintext"' -- they are prepared for output on a
>>text-display-only terminal, or an old style fixed-character-width
>>printer."
>>        The key words are "prepared for output",

>    "Set up to be displayed or printed on"

>>"text-display-only terminal",

>    "Rigii that can only show numbers and letters, and never show 
>pictures, such as a DEC VT-100 or VT-220"
Rigii I assume that is not in the main of everyday accesibility. 
>>"old style fixed-character-width printer".

>    "Printer that can only print a letter or digit or other character the
>same size and font every time, the way a typewriter would, as opposed to
>something like an HP Laserjet which can print a character very large or
>very small or in between and in all kinds of fancy ways like italics or
>bold or shadowed or outlined and with all kinds of different fonts like
>Old English or Helvetica or Garamond or Bodoni or Times Roman or Century
>Schoolbook." 
Again, not one of the norms, but a oddity.
>    You didn't ask for "plaintext" this time, but I think you had trouble
>with it before.  "Plaintext" means characters you can get from a keyboard
>only, without any pictures or drawings.  It also means "not hypertext." 
>"Hypertext" means text containing clickable doodads to incite your rigii
>to a different function.  Now do you understand?


>>	As I said before, whenever I try to print them out directly, my rig
>>freezes up, a experience I don't have with others.

>    And as I said before, perhaps the problem is that they're larger than
>others.  I believe it was Yale Edeiken who said that he had similar
>problems with big files until he got a patch from the company that wrote
>his browser.  (And as I said then, the fact that they sent him a patch
>shows that the company admitted they didn't write the software correctly.)
>But you just assume that the problem is Nizkor's fault, not something
>wrong with your own software or setup.  Typical. 
I don't know about a special patch or whatever, but you admit he had a
problem. I don't know if the problem came from faulty program, those
are yur words. Either way I don't have the same problem with any
other.
	Your the one who mentions DEC - VT 100, VT - 220 and special patch. 
>    Posted/emailed.

>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 29 11:09:36 PST 1995
Article: 17934 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 15:44:23 GMT
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	     "The Destruction of the European Jewery"
		        Raul Hilberg	

	"On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that the
Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated in
a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent ... During the winter,
Fischer created a Resettlement Division under Waldermar Schon, who was
going to have a major role in ghetto planning ... The first idea, in
February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank of the Vistula
Rive, was turned down ... on the ground that 80 percent of Warsaw's
artisans were Jews ... and were indispensible ..."

	Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
in relation to the Jews. 
	One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the Jews
have in America. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 30 09:52:40 PST 1995
Article: 18077 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:21:12 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	
	Without any shred of proof, and nothing more than 
       ethnocentric fixations, the Jews announce:

                "CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS A JEW."

	I recall a converstion with a Jewish person not too long ago
where he said "Christopher Columbus was most likely a Jew". When I ask
him 'most likely?' he couldn't come back with anything else.
	One piece of evidence offered in the Los Angeles Times by a
ethnocentric was he "looks Jewish".  I recall seeing a similar account
offered about Shakespeare, with further evidence being that he seemed
to go easy on the character - Shylock.  



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 30 09:52:41 PST 1995
Article: 18079 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rock and the Hard Place
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:30:31 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4bp7iq$10@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>[so much drivel deleted that I almost missed Tommy's hidden message to
>us all]

>>	The only one who would come to the aid of a fool, is another fool.

>I do not like (nor do I accept) being labelled a fool.  Therefore, I
>have made a New Year's resolution to heed Tommy's words of wisdom:  I,
>for one, shall _not_ be coming to *his* aid anymore :)

	"Anymore"?

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 30 09:52:42 PST 1995
Article: 18084 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rock and the Hard Place
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:53:55 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>In <4bp7iq$10@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>[so much drivel deleted that I almost missed Tommy's hidden message to
>>us all]

>>>	The only one who would come to the aid of a fool, is another fool.

>>I do not like (nor do I accept) being labelled a fool.  Therefore, I
>>have made a New Year's resolution to heed Tommy's words of wisdom:  I,
>>for one, shall _not_ be coming to *his* aid anymore :)

>	"Anymore"?

	Hilary, on updating the group I scanned this again and I just had to
come back with one more. Considering how your name wasn't even in this
thread in the first place, and how I directed my statement 'The only
one to come to the aid of a fool, is another fool' towards Mike, and
then you jump in taking it personal on yourself - well, er, ah, why is
this?
	Interesting.

>>hro
>>=======================
>>Hilary Ostrov
>>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html
>>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/







From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 31 08:59:13 PST 1995
Article: 18239 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No Zyclone - then DDT
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 08:09:53 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <4buel8$2lm@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>		         - DACHAU - 
>> 
>>                      By Marcus J. Smith 
>>               State University of New York Press
>> 
>>Chapter 19, "The Burial Detail"
>>[chapter deleted] 
>>	So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food supplies
>>were having a tough time getting to the camps, even the Zyclone supply
>>was cut off. And since even the victorious U.S. Army was short on
>>supplies of typhus vaccine, we can understand what kind of problems
>>the Germans would have had getting the vital necessities to the camps
>>while they were undergoing heavy bombardment of their cities, supplies
>>and routes.   

>    I'm not sure what the relationship is between the US Army being short
>    on supplies and Dachau being short on supplies, but I agree that in the
>    waning months of the war it is plausable that the concentration camps
>    may have been short of some supplies.

>    So, what is your point?

	The point is there, that among the vital supplies for the wellfare of
the inmates would be Zyklone B. 

>===========================================================================
>daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

>       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 31 08:59:14 PST 1995
Article: 18241 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No Zyclone - then DDT
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 08:40:56 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>In article <4buel8$2lm@zippy.cais.net>, tom moran  wrote:

># So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food supplies
># were having a tough time getting to the camps, 

>Garbage.

>The death rate in the work camps was tremendous long before the
>end of the war. A document which even the crazy "revisionists"
>agree is genuine, states that during the second half of 1942,
>out of 130,000 prisoners used as slave labor in some camps, 
>80,000 died.

	I don't know about this particular document, nor do I know what they
died from, but it seems if a document exists it would show the Germans
kept records. Was it a report of complaint or one of jubilation?

># we can understand what kind of problems
># the Germans would have had getting the vital necessities to the 
># camps while they were undergoing heavy bombardment of their cities, 
># supplies and routes.   

>Garbage. Our crazy "revisionists" yet have to explain why all
>these "supply problems" affected only the inmates of the concentration
>camps. Not the German army; not German civilians who lived nearby;
>not the members of the SS in the camps.

>One truly memorable photograph is that of the fat SS-women 
>in Belsen, dumping skeletal corpses into a mass grave. I recently 
>scanned it, and Mr. Jamie McCarthy loaded it to Nizkor. 

	This is another problem I have. We see these photos of the emaciated
bodies, and we might see the photos of "fat" SS, but where are the
photos of the living inmates who were evacuated and sent on their way
soon after liberation? Since I have reviewed so many photos of life in
the camps before the conditions at the end of the war, I recognize
that a good part of the inmates seem quite well fed, more so than I
expected. As reported by Edward R. Murrow, who gave a report from
Dachau almost from moment one of liberation, he felt inclined to give
some of the ones he was viewing during his report money to make
passage back home, which was already taking place at that time. He
also reported that on arrival to the camp 200 exinmates were pursuing
3 or 4 guards out in the fields, which hardly seems could have been
done by emaciated people. I think that in the final months the
healthier inmates took on more nutrients than those who were too
emaciated to defend themselves. Also the camps in Poland were
evacuated to the camps in Germany which accounts for the concentration
of the emaciated.

	You may want to call revisionist "crazy", but you will have to admit
that they are the ones who started the question that has thus far
resulted in the reduction of said victims at Auschwitz from 4 million
to 1 million, and the new acceptance that other things did not take
place. It wasn't you. It will never be you, and you will be the last
to initiate anything of like.
 
>-Danny Keren.

>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

>-Lu Xun.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 31 08:59:14 PST 1995
Article: 18243 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No Zyclone - then DDT
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 08:45:53 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 26
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>  We should like to inoculate the inmates at this
>>  time, but such action will have to wait. Despite the mighty resources
>>  of the Army, there is insufficient vaccine on hand."
>>  	                  
>>  	So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food supplies
>>  were having a tough time getting to the camps, even the Zyclone supply
>>  was cut off. And since even the victorious U.S. Army was short on
>>  supplies of typhus vaccine.
>>>>>

>	That is because there is no recognized typhus vaccine.  Any
>innoculations were done with experimental preparations.  There was not
>then and is not now any commercial typhus vaccine.  Look it up in the
>Merck.

	You could be right, which would show that the Germans were not able to
solve any Typhus outbreaks by any other means than kill the parasitic
(lice) scource with what they had, which would be - Zyclone B.

>	--YFE

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