From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  1 08:43:40 PDT 1996
Article: 40455 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every Day, MORAN rides the short bus! (was Every Day, Yellow School Buses)
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:00:43 GMT
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31a897a0.1034402@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	Listen for this word [shalom] if you should ever get into a
>	discussion about Israel with a Jew and your views aren't
>	favorable. I have had it directed my way many times, the
>	"Shalom" word that is.
>
>The word "shalom" is Hebrew for "peace" and is used in place of
>"hello" and "goodbye" in Hebrew.  But let's take a look at what Mr.
>Moran's paranoid mind will turn it into:
>
>	It can mean:
>
>	"Tom Moran -- an incompetent, gullible, cowardly, race baiting
>	imbecile.
>
>	Wow.  How satisfying.
>
>	Smooches and Shalom, motherfucker"
>
>	Jason Silverman
>
>In this case, Mr. Silverman uses the word "shalom" in its sense of
>"goodbye."  Mr. Moran would still be "an incompetent, gullible,
>cowardly, race baiting imbecile," even if Mr. silverman did not end
>his accurate analysis with the word, "shalom!"
>
>
>	In further definition it can mean 'fuck you'.
>
>The word "shalom" can never mean "fuck you!"  Mr. Moran would like to
>sow the seeds of strife by getting his peers to misinterpret this word
>when it is innocently used by any Jew.
>
>
>	It is also used to try to embarrass your views. Like
>	Orwellian "double speak". 
>
>Mr. Moran needs no help in coming up with embarassing views!  Every
>time he opens his mouth he embarasses himself.
>
>Note that once again Mr. Moran is provoking anti-Jewish sentiments
>without the least scrap of evidence to back up his lies.  Yet he has
>the chutzpah to demand that everyone else prove every statement they
>make, no matter how obvious and apparent the truth is.

	You posted the evidence right here. You reposted it. Your alibi
that Silverman was using it to say "goodbye" is corrupt.
	How come your alibl stands alone after this thing was out for so
long?

>--
>Harry Katz
>
>To have compassion on animals is one of the laws of Moses.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  1 17:49:21 PDT 1996
Article: 40515 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 14:19:52 GMT
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On 26 May 1996 18:48:49 GMT, EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:
>
>>>The fact is that while the scrolls languished under "Israeli
>>>auspices" it was in fact being jealously and zealously guarded by a
>>>research team headed up by a Christian, whose name I do not recall.
>
>
>>Naturally, you 'do not recall' the name. There is no such person. And 
>>Huber didn't post the article. Get your heads out of the zion cesspool.
>
>Oops. I waited too long before responding to the original post.
>
>The original claim that the Dead Sea Scrolls were held captive by Jews
>for forty years is a flat out lie. Let me repeat that: a flat out lie.
>
>The Dead Sea Scrolls were held by the Franciscan research team in
>Jordan who wanted to make sure that each tranche was released with
>with a theological commentary. When the Scrolls fragments were first
>preserved between sheets of glass forty-odd years ago, photocopies
>were deposited in three libraries apparently with the promise that
>they would not be released to the scholarly community.
>
>The copies at the Huntington Library in San Marino CA were recently
>released, partly because the present librarian discovered that their
>were there, but more simply because the Library believed that the
>Catholic Church was taking far too long in writing their commentaries.
>
>Posted, and e-mailed to M Huber for whom no lie about Jews is too big
>to tell so long as it is a lie about Jews.

	Mr. Morris, where did you get this information? Was it some
Jewish source? They have an extensive history of degrading Catholics.
	The scrolls were held by Jordan and taken after the Jews invaded
that country.
	The scrolls have been in Jewish hands for over forty years and
here you are blaming it on someone else.
	As I said in my first response, I talked personally with the head
of the Huntingtom Library, Mr.Moffet, and the library's photographer,
to which I said, "more on this later". It's later.
	The way the Huntington Library came into possession of the scroll
copies was, a woman, Mrs.Lan ... had copies and hired the library
photographer to photograph them. A dispute arose about payment and the
photographer turned copies of the copies over to Mr. Moffet, and he
released them.
	It wasn't any Franciscans or Catholic Church who had a problem
with the relaese, or any one else, excepting the Israelis and their
Jewish amen corner here in the U.S.
	Threats of legal action and the crys of "anti-Semitism" were the
arguing tools.
	What were they trying to hide? Read "The Sacred Mushroom and the
Cross" by John Allegro, the lead member of the British team ask by
Israel to help decipher the texts. Boy, did he get on the s___ list.
	As I mentioned before, there was an American scholar there who
evidentally had problems with whatever intrigues took place and made a
negative statement for which he was announced insane. The invited
scholars probably had trouble with the Jews over interpretations.
	The day I met Mr.Moffet, a Jewish professor was there to give a
talk to ever showed up at the get together, which was advertised in
the L.A. Times.
	He was delivering some real corny rhetoric and as time went on
his voice would get lower and lower. There were about three people
there who were taking recordings. Two of them held their recorders out
into the aisle so as to avoid anyone in front of them from muffling
the diminishing voice. When the professor noticed this, his voice got
even lower and lower until you couldn't even make out what he was
saying. I took this to mean he was conciously aware he was slinging
bull.

	Morris, where did you say you got your information?

	



>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:10 PDT 1996
Article: 40651 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is trolling?
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 13:15:09 GMT
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <4omf59$53p@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes...
>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <31ada2d8.842604@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>>				
>>>>	I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What
>>>>does that mean? 
>>>>	Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'.
>>>>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.
>> 
>>>I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>>>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>>>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>>>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.
>> 
>>>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>>>(Somehow, I doubt it.)
>> 
>>	The claim of "trolling" is well understood to be a perjorative
>>and nothing more.
>
>    Not really.  Notice that it is directed in a.r for the most part only
>    at Matt Giwer.  Other denier and anti-semitic correspondents have
>    rarely been called trolls.  This is because Giwer's MO differs from
>    that of the other deniers and anti-semites.
>
>    Trolling on usenet derives from the sense of trolling while fishing. 
>    It takes the form of putting one's written "line" in the water using
>    inflamatory material as "bait" and seeing what bites.
>
>    There is discussion of trolling in appropriate FAQs available in
>    news.announce.newusers.  It is a matter of observation and
>    extrapolation to conclude that Giwer's behavior here amounts to
>    trolling.

	People troll, fish bite. 
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:10 PDT 1996
Article: 40652 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is Nizkor?
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 13:52:17 GMT
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <31aef5f9.2611409@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	I realize McVays bio may say he got into anti-denierism because
>>he was horrified by some post some character had committed from
>>Oregon. His personal bio of cultural likes and dislikes, (alt,rev,
>>"The Cultured McVay"), doesn't give him much of a history,  outside
>>what kind of wine or cars he likes, so we wonder where is the
>>background that propelled the person to suddenly start fighting hate
>>and neo-Nazism, in the form of anti-denierism.
>>	One thing is evident. He gets a lot of accomodation on the
>>Websites and his own Nizkor site now involves considerable investment.
>>It is said he gets donations from some Hebrew congregation in Canada.
>
>    "Jewish" Congregation.
>
>>	The accomodation he gets on the Internet is quite extensive, and
>>he has even been covered in an article in the L.A.Times, the same
>>paper that readily prints news releases put out by the Simon
>>Wiesenthal Center. The Center and all the rest of the Holocaust pages
>
>    What percentage of SWC's news releases do the "readily" print?
>    I am quite certain you have no idea.
>
>>carry link icons to Nizkor, but that is pretty much where the
>>connection ends.
>>	Nizkor is out here posting on alt.rev. and none of the others
>>are. Nizkor boasts 3,500 files, some still holding to past Holocaust
>>facts that are commonly recognized as false today by such Holocaust
>>organizations like the Wiesenthal Center, which do not include these
>>old facts in their current list of facts.
>
>    Name on fact that Nizkor asserts which is "commonly recognized as false
>    today by such Holocaust organizations like the Wiesenthal Center." 
>    Name just one fact, Tommy.  If you are right - if we can call the SWC
>    and they say *false* while Nizkor asserts *true* then I will believe
>    you.  But I bet you won't even attempt to name that one fact.
>
>>	One might theorize that Nizkor is being finanaced so it can keep
>>on putting out past obsolete facts, and other current facts that the
>>Simon Wiesenthal Center avoids doing so as not to have a record of so
>>doing when the debunking of old facts becomes widely known and current
>>facts are debunked in the future. In  other words, Nizkor is a vehicle
>>for the others to have their cake and and deny it too. 
>
>    This is all based on your premise above which I assert it false.  Name
>    just one fact, Tommy.
>
>>	When the tilt starts to tumble into widespread awareness of the
>>masses about revisionism, the Simon Wiesenthal can say we didn't say
>>that. Someone might say, but you had a link to Nizkor, and look what
>>they had to say. Then Simon could say they merely put it in there
>>since it was Holocasut related but they didn't have any control over
>>what was included in the Nizkor site.
>>	Nizkor will then be like a expended piece of chewed up gum stuck
>>up under the counter. 
>
>    This is all based on your premise above which I assert it false.  Name
>    just one fact, Tommy.

	I would invite anyone to become aware of those old Holocaust
accounts which have been deleted from the story and check out Nizkor
and see if any are there still being stated directly or implied as
still true. The soap story, numbers at Auschwitz and a few others. 
	The reason for Nizkor is as stated. To have someone out posting
absurd things that the likes of the Wiesenthal Center wants to avoid
responsiblilty for, yet to have it said.
	 

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:11 PDT 1996
Article: 40655 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Sobibor: the Summer of '42
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 13:59:06 GMT
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: holocaust/poland/reinhard/sobibor sobibor.07
>Last-modified: 1993/03/24           

	As to the following, there is not one shred, one iota, one
molecule of forensic evidence to support it.
	Mass graves? None.
	Photographs of any kind? None.
	Anything other than the words that are written? None.


>
>During the summer of 1942 "...trains hauled prefab houses and barracks and
>building materials to Sobibor, and the Nazis expanded the camp into a little
>city with four boroughs.
>
>In the Officers' Compound next to the main gate and parallel to the
>railroad, the Germans threw up living quarters for thirty-five SS men and
>barracks for two hundred guards, a laundry and barbershop, kitchen, bakery,
>canteen, garage and armory, and a jail for Ukrainians.
>
>On the south side of Sobibor, far from the main gate, the Nazis built Camp
>I, where all the Jews slept and some worked. A Ukrainian guarded the only
>gate into Camp I, in the northeast corner, and it was shut at night with a
>padlock and chain. To make Camp I even more escape-proof, the Nazis erected
>two more barbed-wire fences around it.
>
>On the edges of Camp I sat buildings of all sizes: a mechanic and blacksmith
>barracks, two tailor shops and shoe shops -- one for the SS and one for the
>Ukrainians -- a kitchen, a paint and carpenter shop where Jews built
>furniture for the new German and Ukrainian quarters, and barracks for the
>Jews to sleep in.
>
>To make the `processing' of new Jews even more efficient, the Germans
>expanded Camp II, at the center of Sobibor. Wooden barracks in which to
>store clothes, linens, shoes, and household goods they stole from the Jews;
>open sheds in which to sort and bundle them; a barracks for ironing clothes;
>an Administration Building with a room for the diamonds, gold, and silver
>they took, and vegetable gardens, stables, pigsties, chicken coops, and
>rabbit pens.
>
>In the northwest corner of Sobibor, Camp III, the Nazis doubled the gas
>chambers, to six. They could hold between five hundred and six hundred Jews
>at a time, enabling the Nazis to process a large transport in a few hours.
>To clean out the gas chambers and bury the corpses, the Nazis kept a work
>force of a hundred Jews, who ... slept in the barracks next to the `showers'
>and the shed where Jewish dentists chiseled gold from teeth.
>
>To make Sobibor run still more smoothly, the Nazis built a high-powered
>generator that provided enough light so that they could gas Jews at night,
>and a small train with dump cars like those used to haul coal in the mines
>south of Krakow. The train tracks began at the unloading platform in front
>of the Officers' Compound, stretched into Camp II past the warehouses where
>the sorted clothes were stored, along the sorting sheds, parallel with the
>tube leading to Camp III, to the rear of the gas chambers, and then to the
>mass graves. The miners' train toted suitcases from the boxcars to the
>sorting sheds, bundles of clothes from the warehouses to the empty cars
>sitting on the spur inside the camp, wood to Camp III, and corpses from the
>gas chambers to the burial pits.
>
>Excerpted from:--------------------------------------------------------------
>Rashke, Richard. Escape From Sobibor (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1982)
>51-52
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project (Canada) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>            [Ftp] http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>            [Europe] ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:12 PDT 1996
Article: 40659 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HOLOCAUST OF MIND
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:47:54 GMT
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	Entered here you will find a number of ravings that can be taken
as racist exaggerations. We can assume these examples are only a small
fraction of the ethnocentric, blurtatious material that the Jewish
community gets involved with. This community makes up less than 2% of
the American population and yet are responsible for about 100% of the
racist ads, columns and letters that appear in our papers. You may
notice under example XVIII "What Being Jewish Means to Me" is the 15th
of those presented in the N.Y.Times. Over the last 15 years hundreds
of full, half and quarter page ads have been placed in just two
newspapers, the N.Y. and L.A. Times by Jews giving themselves rave
reviews. They seem not able to control themselves, even including
racist ego statements in Holocaust promotional books. 
	
        Since the post covers a number of examples, I would recommend
reading it a piece at a time.

                                                       Tom Moran
                           ==============


I.           - "South West Jewish Archives" -
 (Webcrawler > Jews > Southwestern Jewish Archives > Crypto-Jews)
 
	"The Bloom Southwest Jewish Archives has amassed an enormous
amount of information ..." to show that the Catholics were stupid
people and that Jews were the only ones who could read and write in
pioneer days.
	The Spanish Catholics feared the Jews because they had "special
expertise in various fields".
	Offering up the best of their "enormous" archives, we might
assume, the Blooms cite a few examples to support their apparent
motive of portraying Jews as superior, the first being a "'Mrs.O'" who
had the feeling she was Jewish, because she was raised in a Hispanic
community and her family was the only '"family who were intellectuals,
so therefore we must have been Jewish"'. "Pressed" further she said
'"Well we were the only ones who had books in our house therefore we
must have been Jewish"'.
	Another example given by the Blooms to lead us to how extensive
Jewish presence was in the Old West was from "a young man" who
remembered his grandfather carving menorahs.
	In another display of ethnocentricism and exemplifying the
genetic connection of Judaism, the Blooms quote a Denver dentist who
joined a Jewish congregation, saying he did not have to convert, "even
though his father was a church going Catholic, his mother did not want
him to go to church and told him repeatedly that she was Jewish and
therefore he was too". "My mother was the clever one in the family"
and their "...Catholic friends sneared at us". 
	Another example from the "enormous" archives was a translater
>from  the Univ. of Ariz. who had a amulet with Hebrew text and who's
mother never cooked pork.
	Still another person raised by a "Catholic" mother wrote a
response to a letter (not discused) that appeared in the The
Albuquerque Journal, and the response quoted in part by the Blooms
proclaimed, "...scratch a New Mexican and his Indian blood will flow.
Scratch a little deeper and his Jewish or Moorish blood will flow.
Scratch no deeper 'cause that's all you need to know", meaning any
other blood is not worth mentioning.
                           =============


II.               "ISRAEL IS OUR ONLY PRIORITY" 
So goes the banner heading in a 1/4 page ad in the New York Times
1/23/94, under a little prelude copy that cites " -January 27, 1994-
is the New Year of the Trees."
	"Founded in 1901, the Jewish National Fund has long been
designated as the sole agency in charge of afforestation and land
reclamation in Israel."
	"JNF has planted over 200,000,000 trees throughout Israel. JNF
also builds roads and parks; prepares land for housing, agriculture
and industry ..."  the later being that area outside of the 8000 sq.
miles of the whole of Israel we would have to eliminate when trying to
figure out how many trees per sq. yard 200,000,000 trees would come
out to.

	After a little more boasterous copy we are given a sketch of a
rolling hill vista covered with trees. I wonder what a photograph
would show?
	Whatever the real story, this ad was placed in an American
newspaper for some reason. Evidentally to let us know how ecologically
minded they are. 200,000,000 trees? 
                         ==================
 
III.	I CHRONICLES;   Hebrew historians recount the greatness of David.
He mustered up over 230,000 men.  He then slew the Philistines, taking
a thousand chariots, seven thousand horsemen and twenty thousand
footmen.  He then slew the Syrians, twenty thousand men.  David then
made war against the Ammons who had two thousand chariots and forty
thousand men, along with the Syrians(Evidentally those left over that
David didn't kill)who had forty thousand men and seven thusand
chariots, and David's forces killed them all. His empire then spanned
all the way to the Euphrates.  More awesome than Ghangis Khan, more
awesome than the Romans, more than Darius, more than Alexander the
Great, more than - well, more than anybody. 
           Of course there is no other record to show this ever
happened. In fact Biblical scholars have had to resort to confirming
anything in the Bible by looking into the records of other societies
of the time. The last biblical archeological expedition to the land
was in the sixties, according to the "Bible Almanac", and many
historians now find it difficult to accept anything in the biblical
scriptures as credible.
	According to a article in the N.Y.Times on a recent dig in
Israel, a obscure obliterated inscription was said to be the first
evidence that a David ever existed at all. Even this is said to be
questioned. At a recent symposium of biblical scholars in
Philadelphia, Penn. a number of them expressed their opinion that
there never was a David.
	Contents of the Bible shows a lot more than the above as to
exaggerated claims and suggests the Jewish propensity to exaggerate
started a long time ago.
                            =================


IV.                Dec. 13, 1995, New York Times
                  Quarter page ad by the ADL.

         	    "IN THE FACE OF HATE"

   "ADL is truly a grassroots civil rights and human relations
organization. One of the largest and most respected in the world." 
                            ===============


V.                         Raul Hilberg,
             "The Destruction of European Jews"

"On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
to speak, nonexistent'".
	Stupid Russians.
                            =================


VI.	     "The Destruction of the European Jewery"
		        Raul Hilberg	

	"On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that
the Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated
in a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent ... During the
winter, Fischer created a Resettlement Division under Waldermar Schon,
who was going to have a major role in ghetto planning ... The first
idea, in February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank of the
Vistula River, was turned down ... on the ground that 80 percent of
Warsaw's artisans were Jews ... and were indispensible ..."

	Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
in relation to the Jews and the Poles in their own nation made up 20%.
Either way - stupid Poles.
	One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the
Jews have in America. 
                          ===============
                  
VII.	As to the statement, 'Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more
sense than the White Russians whose talents he claimed were for the
most part "nonexistant" in relation to the Jews.' 
                       
	Danny Mittleman, alt.rev. regular, responded to this with;

        "I guess so."	

As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he
(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' 

	Danny Mittleman responed:
    "I don't know.  I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
reasons: 
    One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
fields.  And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
education levels."
	
	Which means if it wasn't for this, the Jews would be at least 80%
of the artisan story in America. Stupid Americans.
                            ================	 

VIII.    Nizkor > Shofar FTP > camps > Mauthausen > Hungary .01

	"The fate of the Jewish settlement in Hungary -- one of the
largest in Europe -- was a desolating climax to the tragic Holocaust
period. Before Hitler came to power in 1933 there were about 800,000
Jews in greater Hungary, 200,000 of then living in Budapest, where
despite an endemic anti-Semitism, they were at the forefront of
culture, scientific and economic life of the country."

Abram Sachar, "The Redemption of the Unwanted". 1983

	The figure for the number of prewar Jews in Hungary ranges from
700,000 to 900,000 - 800,000 here. The 700,000 figure is that set
forth by an estimate by the Germans, which the Jews use as an
authority to show there was a large enough Jewish population in Europe
to have been killed and add up to the 6,000,000. The same source cited
700,000 French Jews, which is currently put at 70,000 in more current
Holocaust books. Evidentally there was too much of one thing or not
enough of another to maintain the gross exaggeration for France, so we
should seriously consider any figures given in the list. 
                            ==============


IX.	"The Jews are Gods chosen people."

                            ==============

X.	- "The Jews created the one god." -

	Can you picture it? A bunch of ancient Hebrews squating around
and all of a sudden they all jump up at the same time saying, 'I got
it.'

	Actually, Akhenaten, a Pharoah of Egypt installed the concept
over Egypt a hundred years prior to the time "Exodus" is said to have
taken place.
	Also, Zoroaster was a philosopher of a one god, preceding the
first record of Hebrews.
	There are also some primitive tribes in Borneo, and the Americas
that hold to the concept.
	And then there is the most recurrent theme in the "Old Testament"
which is the writers constantly berating the Hebrews for not
adhereingto the one god and following "false idols", evidentally a
common practice among the people. 
                            ===============

	
XI.	Without any shred of proof, and nothing more than 
       ethnocentric fixations, the Jews announce:

                "CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS A JEW."

	I recall a converstion with a Jewish person not too long ago
where he said "Christopher Columbus was most likely a Jew". When I ask
him 'most likely?' he couldn't come back with anything else.
	One piece of evidence offered in the Los Angeles Times by a
ethnocentric was he "looks Jewish".  I recall seeing a similar account
offered about Shakespeare, with further evidence being that he seemed
to go easy on the character - Shylock.  
                           ====================	       

XII.	             "What price Israel"
                     Alfred M. Lilienthal

	"Here is a paradox, a most ingenious paradox, an anthroplogic
fact, many Christians may have much more Hebrew-Isrealite blood
in their veins than most of their Jewish neighbors"

	Dr. Lilienthal has for a number of years been associated with
certain publications that focus on telling the truth about Israel and
Zionism, with his attacks on Jewish activities being of the most
scathing.
	Nevertheless, having had personal communication with Dr.
Lilienthal and meeting him once at his initiative, I recognized that
he had an underlying motive. He knows the truthful analysis he puts
out about Jews and Zionism will find it's way out anyway, so he comes
out and says it too so the Jews will have someone to point to in order
to demonstrate they have the capacity for open mindedness. I
recognized Lilienthal as a "cryptic Jew" from the early stages. I
would say he associated himself with anti-Zionist parties in order to
have some influence on the intensity of the their output. Jews often
attach themselves to organizations for this reason only. The above
statement shows that he has a Jewish agenda at his core. I once heard
him, in an address to an Arab association, say they had common bonds
through Abraham, which was a clincher for me at the time, to be more
suspicious of the cryptic nature of his coming on like a anti-Zionist.

	Lets look at his own wording. I take his use of the word
"paradox" to mean the dictionary option: "a statement or proposition
seemingly self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expressing a
possible truth". This can be further confirmed by his asserting
"anthropological fact".
	Lilienthal appears almost as flaming as the Bloom's, who I
reported on above who assert that Jewish "blood" is prevalaint in
Western mans gene pool. 
	Any intermixing of "blood" would be a two way street. By putting
it the way Lilienthal and the Bloom's put it they would have us
believe that the Jewish blood would become the prevalaint factor,
displacing the traces of the others while their's becomes the ruling
gene.
	"Anthropological" refers to a empirical process, which comes
under the "scientific method". If Lilienthal and the Bloom's make
these claims, let them present the empirical path to their
consclusions. The Bloom's concept of empiricism is summarized above,
which if this was ever taken as a prime example for empirical
standards we would still be in the dark ages.

	Heres another example of empirical recogning to see if
Lilienthal, Bloom's and any other ethnocentric raving on the subject
carries any validity at all.

	The Jewish record, according to the science of archeology goes
back to maybe 1250 BC. Their only record, according to themselves is
found in their Bible which puts them at the beginning of the universe.
As far as any other record of their existence, in the early stages,
there are a couple of referrences to them made by other societies of
the time, but these are from around 600 BC.
	As far as the area of biblical narrative is concerned, there is
considerable record from other societies concerning the area, but not
about the Hebrews themselves. The area was never controlled fully by
any Hebrew people. It was always under the occupation authority of
many different and more significant civilizations. Egypt, the
Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Greeks and Romans to mention a few.
There is also the Jews own story of how they went into the land around
the time of 1250 BC, whereas archeological digs show civilization
there for thousands of years before that.
	All of these societies put settlements into the area which ended
up interbreeding with the inhabitants, the Hebrews among them. This
would be taking place over a long period. Maybe one of the only
biblical narratives that can be shown to hold any validity at all is
an account of how a few ten thousands of Hebrews were carried away to
Babylon, later allowed to return after a sweeping decree by Cyrus who
set free many from many different areas with out mentioning the Jews
in particular. When this carrying away took place it is said that the
Babylonians replaced the displaced Hebrews in Palestine, and by the
time the Hebrews returned after many decades in Babylon, intermingling
we should suppose, the Babylonians had already intergrated with the
remaining population, especially in the Sumerian sector.
	So, from this we assume that any "blood" specialization that may
have existed among the Hebrews was already diluted to a great degree
before even the invasion of the Greeks and Romans who set up colonys
of their own. Combining this with what took place over the next two
thousand years we can see that any Hebrew "blood" was so thoroughly
intermixed that it's original identity would be almost erased. 
	As to any superiority being associated with Jewish "blood" we
should also look at the record through the empirical method. If one
should look into existing history books, the index, and look up
Hebrew, Egyptian, Assyrian, Roman, Greek and a number of others, we
might find Hebrew on say, page 15, 234 - 235, whereas under the others
we might see something like Romans, page 15, 64, 108 - 119, 340 - 360.
In fact any books on the Bible would be quite boring affairs if they
didn'tinclude pictures of art and commentary of societies other than
the Hebrews. The Hebrews were not innovators in anything. No record is
there. They even, by thier own record, had to call on the
Phoenecians to build their temple.
	The Romans and the Greeks have left behind a record that makes
the Bible look like a pamphlet. The Greeks and the Romans were great
in theatre, art, literature, engineering, philosophy and other
innovations that are totally absent from the Hebrew record. 
	Even after the biblical era unto now there is no record of Hebrew
superiority. I will state now that nothing like this would be written
if it wasn't for the many boastings by the Jews themselves about their
being superior. It is a world where things are said and things are
challenged. If they think they rate any special exclusion from being
doubted or denied it only shows the degree of ethnocentric
righteousness.
	The only record of any true accomplishment associated with
Hebrewism has occured in the last century. Even here it can be shown,
using the empirical dynamics of anthropology, that any accomplishments
associated with Hebrewism is really the result of non-Hebrewism.
	Take names like Einstein, Oppenheimer and a few other European
names who are touted as Jewish whenever their names come up. They all
have a German, Italian or other western connection. Of course the
Hebrew ego will blurt out that names like Heisenberg, Shroedinger,
Plank, Galileo, Newton, and a whole slue of others came to be from the
Jewish gene. This I have witnessed personally. In this case we would
have to look at other areas the Jews have taken root, such as Romania,
Soviet Union, Hungary, other nations of the Middle East, North Africa
and in South America. Judging by the names of those who seem to be at
the head of he Jewish community, we can see a lot of German names. 
	So tracing Hebrews from the very onset of their record to now
shows that there is absolutely nothing there to show that Hebrew
"blood" prevails anywhere and that any unique benevolent qualities are
associated with it or they are inherently more "brilliant" than
goyims.
	No one is more aware, at least subliminally, than the Hebrews,
who have to resort to making boasterous announcements, no.1 in the
process of chutzpah.
	The Jews have wide record of stating they are the only group to
exist from ancient times, constantly raving about their enduring
cohesion. The Jew finds it necissary to stay together in order to ply
their way in the world. They, not having the inherent strength and
capability to go it alone have always stuck together to capitalize on
the talents and production of others. They have the most repeated
history in the world, one of constantly being the recipients of
backlash to their conspiracies to manipulate others for the Jewish
interest. They call it persecution. But if a little boy is constantly
getting into trouble, who's fault is it? Any common recognition would
have to put the ultimate responsibility on the little boy. In fact
they thrive on this history. Glorify in being persecuted, evidentally
giving them some sense of accomplishment as a people.
                           =================
                           
XIII.	Go to Tombstone Arizona. Visit Boot Hill. Follow the sign to
"Jewish Cemetary". You will come upon a low adobe wall around a 300
foot square area. In the center on a pedestal is a little pLaque that
reads something like:

	'Here lies some Jewish citizens of old Tombstone, "Friends of the
Indians".

	I know that the Jews are very avid in crawling around Washington
seeking billions for Israel, but I don't ever recall seeing them
active in bringing better times to anyone else, especially the
American Indian. In fact we could surmise that for every dollar that
goes to Israel, it is less that which could be used for the indigent
American.

	No, no. The Jews didn't go to Tombstone to reep of the gold and
silver mines, they went there out of concern for the Indians.  
                            ===================
	
XIV.	Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's
*previous* internet censorship attempts" -

	"The amount of cross breeding between Jews and Christians in
Europe is such that the gene pool is hopelessly mixed as is, more
importantly the meme pool.
	Try to purge all '"Jewish influences"' from any good library of
classical literature and you'll have no books left."
	
                           =================	

XV.	About ten years ago the L.A.Times carried a little notice about a
discussion panel at UCLA by their Hillel chapter in which it was going
to be shown that American humor came from the Jews. 
	They were going to do it by showing some passages from the Old
Testiment. Looking up the one sample example noted, didn't show
anything funny.
	The topic of, no humor can be found in the Bible, is one that is
recognized and commented on by many.
                            =================

XVI.	About 5 years ago, a local newpaper carried an article written by
a Jew who interviewed another Jew about his expertise in some martial
art said to have been developed in Israel. The article went on to say
he was giving instruction to local police departments and that the
technique was "awesome" - "...even more awesome than Gracy jujitsu".
	Gracy jujitsu is an art that a Scotchman living in Brazil
developed late in the 19th Century.
	For the last few years there have been matches shown on TV that
pits one martial art against another. I believe the first one was
called "The Ultimate Challenge". Its a elimination fight down. All
forms can show up to participate.
	During that match and all subsequent matches, Gracy
representatives have won.
	The Gracys, the initial Gracy"s off spring, have offered over the
last number of years, $100,000 to anyone who can beat them.
	The Jew with the Jewish martial art form that is "more awesome
than Gracy" or any other representative of the awesome technique have
never shown up to take the challenge or to participate and show their
awesome techniques at any of the TV fight downs.
	A personal aquantance who knows the Gracys ask the Gracys if they
knew anything about this awesome Jewish technique and they never even
heard of it.
	Considering the Gracys $100,000 reward, we can see they put their
money were their mouth is, and the Jewish techniquers merely stick out
the spoon of chutzpah.  
                           =================

XVII.                   "WHAT BEING JEWISH MEANS TO ME"
  The latest to appear under this heading that appears in quarter page
ads in the N.Y.Times with regular frequency is one by Justice Ruth
Bader Ginsberg, 1/14/96.

	"There is an age-old connection between Judaism and law. For
centuries, rabbis and other Jewish scholars have studied, restudied,
and ceaslessly interpreted the Talmud. These studies have produced a
vast corpus of judicial writing. Jews have been called '"the people of
the book"', reflecting their placemnent of learning first among
cultural values.
	The Jewish tradition prized the scholarship of judges and
lawyers, and when anti-Semitic occupational restrictions were lifted,
Jews were drawn to the learned professions of the countries in which
they lived. In the U.S., law became the bulwark against the kind of
oppression Jews had endured ... Jews in large numbers became lawyers,
some eventually became judges, and the best of those jurists used law
to secure jsutice for others.
	Laws as protectors of the oppressed, the poor, the loner, is
evident in the work of my Jewish predecessors ...
	The late Supreme Court justice (and former American Jewish
Committee president) Arthur Goldberg once said, '"My concern for
justice, for peace, for enlightenment, all stem from my heritage"'. I
am fortunate to be linked to that heritage.
	Each time I visit the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, I am
reminded that Hitler's evil kingdom, his '"Holocaust Kingdom"', was a
kingdom full of laws. ..."

	Ginsberg then goes on to tell us how the German justices went
astray and then continued on with how wonderful Judaic thinking is.

	The ad is placed by The American Jewish Committee.

	"The American Jewish Committee is proud to present this message,
the fifteenth in a series, on the meaning of being Jewish today."

	"For information on a variety of programs which can help you
explore your connection to Judaism, write ..."

	""Founded in 1906, the American Jewish Committee is dedicated to
strengthening the Jewish community, enriching the quality of Jewish
life, and enhancing democratic values for all."


Dear Ruth Ginsberg and the American Jewish Committee,
	As to the claims made in your advertisment, N.Y. Times, 1/14/96,
stating that Jews are righteously concerned with democracy and rights
for others, I have a few questions before I can accept the proposals
as being sincere.   
	What record do you have as to the Israeli policy of shooting down
little kids, and their policy of condoning torture? What is your view
on the Jewish imprisionment of thousands of Palestinians without
trial? What is your opinion on the jews in Israel razing peoples
houses. What is your view on Israeli defiance of U.N. resolutions?
What is your view on Israel terrorizing 100s of 1000s in Lebanon.
	Do you think support of Israel should be subject to a democratic
vote by the citizens of the U.S.? Do you think that support of Israel
is a violation of our 'separation of church and state' clause?
	What is your view of Holocaust revisionism? Do you think
revisionists have the right to be heard, in the press, on TV, on
campus? What is your view on the continuing activity of the Simon
Wiesenthal Center and the ADL to bring censorship to the Worldwide
Web? Do you think they should be required to name offending sites
explicitly and should be required to present their case before a
democratic vote?
	Do you have any record to show you have addressed any of this?
                           ================

XVIII.                    Quote from the Talmud
	"He who so ever saves the life of a Jew, is as if he had saved
the life of the whole world."
	Which further implies, 'He who so ever saves the life of a goyim,
is as if he had saved nothing'.
                           ================

XIX.                   Statement by a Israeli leader at a 
                      "Salute to Israel" gathering in L.A.
	"The United States wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for
Israel".
	Now there is a true statement. The Unitied States, and the world,
would be a lot better off if Israel never existed. 
                            ===============

XX.                The Jew who took 500 Japanese prisoners.

	The full account was posted on alt.rev. a number of months ago.
It had also received exposure in public newspapers.
	About ten years ago or so a Jew laid claim to the Congressional
Metal of Honor. His story was that he took 500 Japanese prisoners. For
some reason and eventually, almost the full U.S. Senate got involved
in special legislation to have the matter considered seriously, and
were opting to award the nations highest citation.  As it turned the
Jew was exposed as a liar and the matter slid away into the history of
the rest of the exaggerations.
	The matter was taken up by the Senate on the urgings of major
Jewish organizations, which makes the lie their lie. The lie was
exposed by members of the claiming person's unit during the war. The
Jews tried to make it look like it was on their initiative, the Simon
Wiesenthal Center being one of the Jewish oraganizations involved.
	 

   


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:13 PDT 1996
Article: 40662 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!bofh.dot!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Beneficiaries of 'Assertive Action'?
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:48:49 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <31b1a9b3.5855279@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31a46ef8.3655368@news.pacificnet.net>  <31a70753.453845@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>
>>In article <31a46ef8.3655368@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>>moran) wrote:
>>
>>>         D. Mittleman, University of Arizona
>>> 
>>>         J. Morris, University of Alberta
>>> 
>>>         M. Kelley, University of Arizona
>>> 
>>>         D. Keren, Brown University
>>> 
>>>         R. Green, Stanford University
>>> 
>>>         A. Dershowitz, Harvard University
>>> 
>>>         D. Goldhagen, Harvard University
>>> 
>>>         D. Lipstadt, Emory University
>>> 
>>
>>          T. Moran, Trailer in the Ozarks. 
>>
>	The righteous Mr. Van Alstine. He says all people who live in
>trailer parks or the Ozarks are, are, are - what are they
>Mr. Van Alstine? What are you trying to say?

	Well it seems Mr.Van Alstine didn't care to come back and clarify
what he said.

>>Mark
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>>
>>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:14 PDT 1996
Article: 40663 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!bofh.dot!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:49:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <31b1a9d5.5889278@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4npn6a$1la0@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> <31a07671.3260787@news.pacificnet.net> <4o2q4s$bm5@shiva.usa.net> <31a656fa.904999@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:
>
>>In article <31a07671.3260787@news.pacificnet.net>,
>>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>>
>>	The reason the Jews kept a lid on the contents of the Dead Sea
>>	Scrolls...
>>
>>Mr. Moran, as usual, is making this up as he goes along.  The fact is
>>that the scrolls were not published because the research team that
>>was commissioned to study them, headed by a Christian, decided to
>>keep them for themselves.
>>
>>What their motives were is open to question.  Most likely they wanted
>>to hog the academic glory, though some say they were protecting
>>Christian doctrine from heresy in the scrolls.  At any rate, only Mr.
>>Moran pretends to know what the motivation was, but then again, he
>>misidentified the culprits to begin with!
>>
>>	...is because they are an embarrassment.
>>
>>Not as much an embarassment as Mr. Morn himself!
>
>	Really? where did you get these facts? They sound familiar. I got
>my facts from the news papers as it was being reported. I also talked
>with the Huntington Library curator, Mr. Moffet, now deceased. I also
>got the exclusive scoop from the Library's photographer, that story
>later.
>	Now where did you say you got your story?
>
	Now Katz, where did you say you got your facts?


>>--
>>Harry Katz
>>
>>An Israelite is prohibited from deceiving even an idolator.
>>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 10:21:15 PDT 1996
Article: 40666 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Picture this
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:02:45 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Another source for the first gassings in Block 11 is the
>book "Mutzen Ab!" (Caps Off!), by Polish officer Zenon
>Rozansky, who was an inmate in Auschwitz. Rozansky was
>among the inmates who had to carry the corpses of the
>victims of these first gassings to Krema I.
>
>The book is in German; I have xeroxed some of it, and can
>send a copy to interested posters.
>-Danny Keren.

	Professor, from what I have seen and what I continue to see is
that when the time comes for the international community to muster up
a the 'Final Resolution' to the Holocaust story, Krema I will be the
first to fall, to be announced bogus, a lie. Keep clinging to your
little belief like a teddy bear, professor. Keep telling yourself,
'Nobody is going to take my teddy bear away'.
	



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 21:46:47 PDT 1996
Article: 40736 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rock and the Hard Place
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 16:55:24 GMT
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	The Holocaust story has it that thousands of people at one time
were cremated in open pits, there bodies being ignited with an initial
fuel and sustained there after with human fat collected in a basin at
the end of the excavation. The other part of the cremation chapters of
the Holocaust story have it thousands were cremated in ovens that even
by present day capabilities were extraordinary.

	Of course one could claim that the cremated in the ovens were
emaciated to 'skin and bones'.
	But then this would not be supported by photos of life in
concentration camps.
	But then one could point to those common photos of emaciated
people in excavations.
	But then that would be at the end of the war and not in agreement
with photos that show life before the end of the war.
	But then this would  put a dent in any assertions that mass pit
cremations were self sustained by the fats of the victims.


		"Deus ex machina".
  
  	Random House Dictionary:
    1. "a god who resolves the entanglements of the play by his super
  natural forces".
    2. "an artificial, forced or improbable device used to resolve the
  difficulties of a plot".

	What the Holocaust story needs now is one of those special
eyewitness testimonies that will tell us that only the emaciated were
cremated in the ovens and all the fat people we're taken to the pits. 

	  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  2 21:46:48 PDT 1996
Article: 40738 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:06:25 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:


	This thing doesn't even deserve a detailed critique. It's full of
lies. All lies. Mr.Edeiken is big on calling people liars.
	Mr.Edeiken, would you care to fill in some details on your posted
assertions. Get it over with, because after that we will have to get
back to the subject of your alleged 160 relatives lost in the
Holocaust.
 
>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) gives more anti-Semitc drivel:
>>  	Mr. Morris, where did you get this information? Was it some
>>  Jewish source? They have an extensive history of degrading Catholics.
>
>	Try Newsweek magazine, Moron.
>
>
>>  	The scrolls were held by Jordan and taken after the Jews invaded
>>  that country.
>
>	Note the anti-Semitic tone.  The "Jews" did not invade Jordan.  Nor for 
>that matter did the Israeli army.  Moreover the scrolls were captured in 1967 -- less 
>than 30 years ago.	
>
>>  	The scrolls have been in Jewish hands for over forty years and
>>  here you are blaming it on someone else.
>
>	But the research team that had charge of the Dead Sea 
>Scrolls remained the same.
>
>>  	It wasn't any Franciscans or Catholic Church who had a problem
>>  with the relaese, or any one else, excepting the Israelis and their
>>  Jewish amen corner here in the U.S.
>
>	An outright lie.
>
>>  	Threats of legal action and the crys of "anti-Semitism" were the
>>  arguing tools.
>
>	An outright lie.
>
>>  	As I mentioned before, there was an American scholar there who
>>  evidentally had problems with whatever intrigues took place and made a
>>  negative statement for which he was announced insane. The invited
>>  scholars probably had trouble with the Jews over interpretations.
>
>
>	Several outright lies.  In fact, one of the lead complaints was that 
>Jewish scholars were denied access to the Scrolls.
> 
>>  	Morris, where did you say you got your information?
>
>	I got mine from Newsweek magazine.  Where did you dig up your lies?
>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun  3 11:09:34 PDT 1996
Article: 40853 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Goldhagen again
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 13:27:54 GMT
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	      "Ideology, Not Genes, Inspired the Holocaust"
            Letter to the editor, by Daniel Goldhagen
                    N.Y. Times, June 3, 1996

	In "Arrogance, Order, Amity and Other National Traits" (Week in
Review, May 26) about the return of national character and genetic
explanations, you erroneously adduce my book, "Hitler's Willing
Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust," as an example.
	You say that I maintain that "the Holocaust required not people
who were anit-Semitic or totalitarian ...but simply German."
	This is radical misreading of my book, in which I argue
explicitly and extensively that it was principally anti-Semitism that
motivated ordinary Germans to to kill Jews. Many anti-Semitic
non-Germans also helped to kill Jews.
	The book does show that anti-Semitism in Germany, as part of the
political culture before and during the Nazi period, was extremely
widespread, and that it informed the anti-Jewish actions that ordinary
Germans were willing to tolerate and undertake.
	Yet there remained Germans, albeit a minority, who were not
anti-Semitic and some who even helped Jews.
	The book's argument is, therefore, clearly not about any
essential, unchanging alleged German national character or particular
German genetic disposition to violence --- I reject both notions. The
argument focuses on the relationship of people's ideological
convictions to their actions. Ideologies, like other mental
constructs, are mutable, developing historically and subject to
subsequent change.
	                              Daniel Jonah Goldhagen


	So far, the only rave reviews I have seen about Goldhagen's book
have either been out here on alt.rev and by A.M.Rosenthal of the N.Y.
Times, who escalated Goldhagen's numbers to 50,000,000 Germans
directly responsible.
	The Harvard associate professor seems to be catching hell. What
did he expect? That the world and Germans would say, 'Oh how
wonderful'? If any one had written a book like say, "Israel's Willing
Executioners: Ordinary Jews and the Intifada" we would be hearing the
loud wails of "anti-Semitism". As the Germans concluded, Goldhagen's
book is nothing more than "provocation" and he is getting what he
wanted, maybe a little more. 
	I take special note of his tenacious hammering at the German
people in his disclaimer here, that anti-Semitism "was extremely
widespread ..."  and  "Yet there remained Germans, albeit a minority,
who were not anti-Semitic ...".
	What with books like his, maybe the Germans will be induced to
start looking into the current facts of the Holocaust and see if they
are really facts. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun  3 11:09:34 PDT 1996
Article: 40857 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 16:57:40 GMT
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	For the past 50 years the Holocaust in it's present form has
saturated the ethos of the world. As many have recognized, it has been
pressed merely on "eyewitness testimony", interpretation of documents
and attempts at blocking anyone questioning the particulars.

	Recently, over the last few years a dark and looming precidence,
for the story, has seeped into the process of validation.

	As Franciszek Piper, curator of the Auschwitz museum puts it,
"Yet several factors now prompt historians to attempt to verify widely
used figures, including the scientific demand for objectivity in the
study of Nazi crimes." One should take note of Piper's use of the word
"objectivity".  Meaning as opposed to the subjective approach.

	The Nuremburg Trials was an event that tried and hung men on the
accounts of eyewitness testimony without any forensic research at all
to determine if any physical evidence existed to support what was put
forth at the trials. Whatever is taking place now in regard to
forensic studies to determine the validity of the Holocaust should
have been done at the time.
	The overall conclusion from what is available today in regard to
seeking out physical evidence, is that if it was done at the time of
the Nuremburg Trials the Holocaust story would take up only a few
books instead of the thousands the unsubstantiated story has created,
and some men may not have been hung.		

	Perhaps the first forensic probe was done at Treblinka just after
the war in order to see if it could be verified that up to 2,000,000
were murdered, cremated and buried at that 40 acre site. The results
were next to nothing.

	Another similar probe was performed at Birkenau, with the results
being next to nothing. 

	Perhaps the first probes for physical evidence in regard to any
trial was the "Leuchter Report" considered by the Canadian government
in the trial of Ernst Zundel. This report dealt with a forensic
investigation of existing cyanide traces at Auschwitz today. His
report leads the viewer to believe there was no process of gassing at
the camp.

	Then there was a research probe at Auschwitz-Birkenau by the
Polish Government to undo the Leuchter report. The "Final Remarks" to
the report concluded next to nothing.

	Then there was a probe done in the Ukraine to uncover a grave in
order to use as evidence at a war crimes trial in Australia, where
they found around 700 bodies in two seperate sites. No conclusion was
made that the Germans were responsible.

	All this, regardless of any findings, is the forensic, scientific
approach to verifying Holocaust accounts.

	The precidence is expanding. Eventually people will be relying
more and more on concrete, objective evidence. Once this becomes the
recognized practice, only that which can be confirmed by the
scientific method will be accepted, which so far, with the above, have
been dismal failures.

	Once it is in full demand, and the real evidence is not
forthcoming, most of the Holocasut story will have to be listed under
"Fiction" in the libraries.

	The more forensic investigations that take place and end up
failing to show what was intended, as is already the case with the
above, the more they will prove what didn't happen.  

	After all, much of the story has already gone down the drain just
>from  retrospect considerations not founded on the forensic method and
increased demand for physical evidence will undo the rest. 





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun  3 11:09:35 PDT 1996
Article: 40860 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 13:54:49 GMT
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <31b1c798.13508858@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) writes:
>
>>
>>	The precidence is expanding. Eventually people will be relying
>>more and more on concrete, objective evidence. Once this becomes the
>>recognized practice, only that which can be confirmed by the
>>scientific method will be accepted, which so far, with the above, have
>>been dismal failures.
>>
>>
>
>I think you are overstating your case, but OTOH I expect that what you say
>will occur over the next several decades.  That is why I attempt to
>integrate the Holocaust into a larger picture, and tend also to downplay
>those elements that are the object of so much controversy.  My reward for
>my efforts is to be accused of irrelevance and self indulgence! 

	There aren't going to be any "next several decades" to the
Holocaust discussion. The time is drawing nigh. You say, admit, you
tend to "downplay" controversial elements of the story and are accused
of focusing on irrelevance. Could be, I don't read all your stuff. As
far as I can tell, 99% of the story chapters are controversial, open
to great doubts. You may like to divert from these to mundane points,
I don't know for sure, but it is a tactic people use to avoid the gist
of a debate. Barring this, they usually resort to something like your
next paragraph.

>
>But I also don't think that you believe what your are saying.  If you
>_really_ believed it, you would not use this newsgroup shovel out so much
>antisemitic garbage as you do.  History is an art, and no history survives
>without a positive esthetic.  But almost everything you post is negative. 
>And people who live to generate or imbibe just negativity contribute very
>little, either in a newsgroup or in life in general.
>
	Everything I post is "negative"? And you say it is all
"antisemitic garbage"? Alright, you said it, but you didn't show it,
did you? In fact you said nothing about the elements of the post, did
you? 
	I reiterate, there is no forensic evidence for the Holocaust. Any
that has been presented as such is inconclusive, weak and open to
attack. 
	What is the definition of "negative" under your application
anyway?





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun  3 12:17:24 PDT 1996
Article: 40865 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: IT'S OVER, rebbi admits 6,000,000 hoax
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 14:02:53 GMT
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EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:

>Every day, as j*ws die of natural causes, we are smitten with finding 
>that so many of those in the obituaries were previously listed as 
>'holocaust victims'.  Too, we have learned that living 'eyewitnesses' 
>have invented victims, from non-existant neighbors to listing their dogs 
>as missing family members. This has caused, necessarily, increased 
>interest in Revisionism, the movement to find the truth about the 
>holocaust lies. Revisionism has already enlightened many, and led to an 
>increase in anti-semitism as a backlash. Of course, those perpetrating 
>the holocaust myth typically label anyone merely seeking the truth as 
>hateful. 
>
>But we now have the numero uno rebbi of Great Britain calling for honesty,
> revisionism and reaching across the abyss to repair damage caused by the 
>holocaust lies.  Whether he is acting from frustration or from a desire 
>to quell the rising tides of anti-semitism, only he can say. That rebbi, 
>Dr. johnathan h. SACKS, in an open letter to the community, dated March 6,
> 1996, "..called for  revising the 'Six million' figure of Jews killed 
>during the  second world war."
>
>He said that it was "important to find out how many people, presumed dead,
> are still alive."  He said it was far more important to unite families 
>than to live with a FIGURE ARRIVED AT QUITE ARBITRARILY. . .  "
>
>Will wonders never cease? It will be interesting to see the reaction and 
>denials of those deeply involved in promoting the myth.
>
	We should expect to see more and more Jews coming out with some
words for revisionism. This is the norm. To wait until they see it is
not going to go away and then come out with something like the above.
	They will be there trying to look the part, but in the end they
will be more interested in trying to regulate any over all out come.
Something like, instead of 6,000,000 Jewish victims it should be more
like 5,999,999.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun  3 19:04:20 PDT 1996
Article: 40911 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is trolling?
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 13:45:05 GMT
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <31aeecf5.303900@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <31ada2d8.842604@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>>				
>>>>	I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What
>>>>does that mean? 
>>>>	Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'.
>>>>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.
>> 
>>	Okay, heres McVay's answer to the question; What is trolling?	
>> 
>>>I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>>>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>>>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>>>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.
>>>
>>>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>>>(Somehow, I doubt it.)
>> 
>>	Moran wonders if McVay stamped his foot down when typing the
>>sentence, "There."
>>	He doubts if Moran can figure out his response. He's got that
>>right.
>>	He says Moran can't brush his teeth or have "normal" sex. Now how
>>would he know? He probably figured it out the same way he figures out
>>anything else, by what he wants to believe.  
>
>    No.  McVay was just trolling.  Caught a big one too!

	You have any further details to support your incredibly ignorant
statement?
	Here we have McVay making things up about someone's personal life
and you endorse him. This is a school yard tactic. Evidentally you
can't control yourselves. 
	Now maybe you can support McVay's little remark. Moran ask McVay,
"Now how would he know?". Now, how would Mittleman know? Go for it. 
	It seems a increased desperation is manifesting. Maybe you should
go and show this to your collegues and see what they have to say about
it. Why don't you come back and tell how your collegues would support
you.
	If McVay was trolling, the only thing he snagged was a rock which
pulled him over board, and you jumped in to save him, only to get
entangled in his line.


>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 14:56:16 PDT 1996
Article: 40928 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:38:58 GMT
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>    Its Summer and Tommy is again offering us reruns.  Today, Tommy treats
>    us, once again to: "4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000"
>
>    For those of you new to alt.revisionism, let me save you the trouble of
>    wondering whether Tommy has unearthed some brand new piece of
>    historical information.  He hasn't.  In fact he has posted this rubbish
>    here on several occasions previously and it has been effectively
>    rebutted every time.
>
>    Now you are probably wondering, "if Tommy is an honest debater, why
>    doesn't he either off a rebuttal to what has been refuted, or atleast
>    somehow address those refutations in his posts?"  Well, we will have to
>    ask Tommy that question, I certainly can't figure it out.  It just
>    seems dumb to me to continually beat one's head against the wall when
>    the post is obviously wrong and easily refutable.
>
>    So, for you new readers, here are some references.  Try out these URLs
>    to see his previous posts and the associated rebuttals.  And remember,
>    keep asking yourself "why would he do this if he is an honest debater?"
>
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=10980686&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858181.27332&hitnum=0
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=14816719&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858181.27332&hitnum=1
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3179103&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858181.27332&hitnum=2
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3583784&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858181.27332&hitnum=4
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3886705&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858181.27332&hitnum=7
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=12810001&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858625.28078&hitnum=26
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=7046358&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858625.28078&hitnum=23
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=6193197&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858625.28078&hitnum=20
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=10980411&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858625.28078&hitnum=11
>    http://xp3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=12810001&threaded=1&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=833858625.28078&hitnum=7
>
>    And there are more, of course.  And there are lengthy threads with
>    solid rebuttals, of course.  But this should get any new reader started
>    with Tommy posts.  Read any one of them or read them all.  They all say
>    the same thing.  And as you are reading them you will see counter
>    argument interspersed which is never addressed.  Tommy wonders why we
>    don't take the time to counter all of his posts anymore.  The answer is
>    that his posts are all already countered.  And the information is
>    sitting out there at DejaNews for all to read.
>
>This time in article <31b2d5b8.179714@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...


	Danny, thanks for the referrences.
>>		
>>	 At one time, the figures for those said to have been
>>exterminated at Auschwitz was 4 million, which at this time the
>>current number is 1 million. At least 95% of this current number are
>>said to have been Jews. The overall number of Jews said to have fallen
>>to the Holocaust has been 6,000,000 for some time. Six million when
>>the Auschwitz numbers were 4 million and still 6,000,000 with the
>>Auschwitz numbers at 1 million.
>>	It is alleged that the 6 million figure was never contingent on
>>the now defunct 4 million figure.
>>	Whatever, for the time being, if we now have numbers at Auschwitz
>>given as 1 million, and at least 95% of them are Jewish, we can see
>>that strange coincidences have taken place. A mathematical wonder.
>>Probablilities of astronomical proportions being over come. It just so
>>happens that the other 3,000,000 now deleted from the story were not
>>Jewish and that 95% of the 1 million remaining, were Jewish, leaving
>>the existing overall number of Jews said to have died still at
>>6,000,000. 
>>	Now that is real good luck for those who are so adamant and
>>fanatical on preserving and bellowing the 6 million number.
>>	It would certaintly 'raise some eyebrows' if the guardians of the
>>6 million had to start using a number like, say, 3 million Jews. I
>>mean 3 million instead of 6 million would be no little 'spit in the
>>ocean'. What, with a discrepancy like that in their heads, the masses
>>would most definitely start to 'look side ways' at the new number, and
>>a little 'on down the road' any wide scale acceptance for the story
>>would 'fall by the wayside'.					 
>>	No wonder there is so much fanaticism in defending the current 6
>>million. 
>
	Maybe Mr.Mittleman didn't notice, but this post raises new
questions. But then again, maybe he did and this is why he choose to
go into a lengthy diversion.
	Mr.Mittleman, maybe you better read the post over again and see
if you can see it. If you don't see it, maybe you better try to show
it was the same thing. 
>

                      


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 15:28:05 PDT 1996
Article: 40931 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:19:54 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>It is hardly surprising that Tom Moran, who forged Holocaust-related
>testimonies on this newsgroup, lies about other aspects of the
>Holocaust as well.

	Professor, didn't you just go through this, Moran is a forger? I
said wherzat, you posted the evidence, I responded, you never came
back. You better watch it or your folder will have more examples of
deperation than the 30 I collected with Mr.Edeiken and his "KKKK", and
Marty Kelley with his menorah.

	As to your standard inclusion of "lies",

The professor: Your honor, this fella here is a liar about other
aspects of the Holocaust.

His Honor: Howzat?

The professor: What do mean "Howzat?" you honor.

His Honor: I mean howzat? What aspects?

The professor: What "aspects"?

His Honor: The "other aspects" you just referred to.

The professor: Oh, those. Whats that have to do with it your honor?

His Honor: Bailiff, show this professor out of the court room. 



>The fact that he cannot deny, though, is that there are cyanide
>compounds at each and every location in Auschwitz-Birkenau
>where gassing by cyanide gas took place.

	You should be referring directly to some reports here professor. 

>
>Moran continues to post bold faced lies, such as:
>
># Perhaps the first forensic probe was done at Treblinka just after
># the war in order to see if it could be verified that up to 2,000,000
># were murdered, cremated and buried at that 40 acre site. The results
># were next to nothing.
>
>An outright lie. Human remains were found up to a depth of 7.5
>meters in Treblinka.

	Thats another folder I have to make up. One with all those terms
you tend to use instead of any quantities, you say "Human remains".
You know, like saying Zyclone B emits its HCN "somewhat faster". The
report on this study is rift with the same kind of terms.  


># Another similar probe was performed at Birkenau, with the results
># being next to nothing.
>
>Another outright lie. See above.

	See below the "above".
>
># Perhaps the first probes for physical evidence in regard to any
># trial was the "Leuchter Report" considered by the Canadian government
># in the trial of Ernst Zundel. This report dealt with a forensic
># investigation of existing cyanide traces at Auschwitz today. His
># report leads the viewer to believe there was no process of gassing at
># the camp.                            
>
>This is really pathetic, even for Moran. Even "leading revisionists"
>gave up on the report written by the liar and charlatan Fred Leuchter
>(who claimed to be an "engineer", although he only has a BA in the
>Arts). David Cole, "leading revisionist", declared that Leuchter's
>report is a piece of rubbish, and that Leuchter makes errors "a three
>year old would not have made".
>
>But, Moran is invited to try and defend Leuchter's report here.
>
	You have a short memory professor, or perhaps a highly Freudian
one. I mentioned I didn't think much of it when I posted the critique
on the Polish report. You know the one. You tore yourself up
responding to it.

	My reasons weren't and aren't based on your conclusions though.
That he is a "charlton" and a "liar" that purposely prints "rubbish"
with "errors a three year old would not make".
	
>
>-Danny Keren      
>
>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.
>
>-Lu Xun.



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 15:28:07 PDT 1996
Article: 40932 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran is winning
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:22:49 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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Bud  wrote:

	
	Thanks for the support Bud, but it's not necessary. I have faith
in a basic aesthetic of most humans. 
	The practices you speak of are a process of stabbing oneself in
their own foot. People can come out all they want and make foolish
little witty banters between each other or simply call an opponent a
neo-Nazi, racist and/or a anti-Semite, but they just expose their own
deficiencies and I would say most people notice it. Personally I can't
believe they would come out and commit themselves to such things on a
format like the Internet. Self degradation and punishment I guess.
	I notice where you said "Very often (not always) his point is
completely ignored and the only reply he receives is rhetorical
name-calling, or some personal quip or ...". Theres no problem here
Bud, they seem to think I post stuff for them personally when in fact
I don't expect or even care to sway any thinking they may have. I only
respond out of a necessity like sweeping off the door step. All of my
posts are put out there for the general viewer. I have faith in the
overall capability of the general humanity to distinguish the highs
and lows of any debating techniques.
	As far as alt.revisionism goes, the battle for truth will not be
faught and won on this format. It is but a intermediate point for
discussion and fooling around between the books and the websites. The
main battle will be when the time comes that a world wide call for
open debate convenes someplace and the 'final resolution' is made.
	I would say that should any of the people which may be subjects
of your post show up at any conference, not controled by the Holocaust
dedicated, they would be like babes in the woods where their hard
inured techniques would be like casting a silent film star for a
speaking role. Its easy for people to sit in the conforts of their
personal remote places and take advantage of the ease and the facility
of the computer network to post something. 
	As I said, thanks for the support, but it's not necessary, the
subjects of your post are really supporting revisionism in that wierd
sort of way, they just don't know it.
	 	
                                                   Tom Moran


	


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 15:28:08 PDT 1996
Article: 40933 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where did all the ashes go?
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:20:19 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:
>
>Moran,
>Primo Levi was a prisoner in Auschwitz, and other Nazi camps. He 
>killed himself several years ago. And you, you dumbshit, read what the 
>man said, witnessed, and wrote in some of the most credible books 
>published, and reach another stupid conclusion, that somehow this will 
>help you buncha turkeys. Bullshit, pal. No way. 
>
	I think with my head, not my 'heart' or 'guts'. If the person
spent time in Auschwitz I recognize his suffering. It doesn't mean I
have to believe whatever he wrote. The road to truth is ill traveled
by emotional recogning.  
	Peace be with you, Primo Levy.




>tom moran wrote:
>> 
>> klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>> 
>> >"The human ashes coming from the crematoria, tons daily, were easily
>> >recognized as such, because they often contained teeth or vertebrae.
>> >Nevertheless, they often were employed for several purposes: as fill for swamp
>
>
>>         This is fantastic **ionformation.
>
>*SAY WHAT? DUMB SHIT!
>
> For the side of revisionism that
>> is.
>
>Only for those who lack any serious comprehension.
>Chuck Ferree



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 16:02:02 PDT 1996
Article: 57337 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31b43829.303186@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31b43829.303186@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:30:56 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 16:05:53 PDT 1996
Article: 40935 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 14:12:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31b4414f.2645572@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>    Its Summer and Tommy is again offering us reruns.  Today, Tommy treats
>    us, once again to: "4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000"
>
>    For those of you new to alt.revisionism, let me save you the trouble of
>    wondering whether Tommy has unearthed some brand new piece of
>    historical information.  He hasn't.  In fact he has posted this rubbish
>    here on several occasions previously and it has been effectively
>    rebutted every time.


		My first post on this, currently under "BEHOLD THE LIE",
dealt with the Simon Wiesenthal lie that the 6,000,000 figure is still
intact after the reduction of deaths at Auschwitz from 4,000,000 to
1,000,000 because the figuring on the 6,000,000 was never contingent
on the 4,000,000 number. The post here raises the question of how is
it that it just so happens that all those 3,000,000 that were deleted
were not Jewish and almost all those of the remaining 1,000,000 were
Jewish.  
	Mr. Mittleman says this post is the same as the other and has
gone to great lengths to divert from the point, evidentally staying up
all night to commit it.
	Now that it has been reiterated as to the differences and as to
the new post's points raised, maybe Mr.Mittleman can try to respond a
bit more directly. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 16:05:54 PDT 1996
Article: 40937 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 14:25:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	There has been a lot crying and gnashing of teeth over this post,
with sporadic name calling and charges of this or that. I would say if
the Holocaust dedicated have a beef they should just post any and all
forensic studies they have to show the validity of Holocaust claims.
In other words, they should put their money where their typing
fingertips are. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun  4 17:20:38 PDT 1996
Article: 40949 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 14:27:03 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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Message-ID: <31b4474b.4176826@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Moran has posted this space for anyone who says they have any
forensic study reports that supports the Holocaust.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 41242 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CHARGES
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:05:20 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <31a5047f.9562387@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	What should one make of it if someone makes charges of
>>anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and/or racism and can't or refuses to follow
>>up with an argument for proof?
>> 
>>	What would that make the charger?
>
>    I don't know, Tommy.  But here's a question for you.
>
>    What should one make of it if someone makes charges of anti-Semitism,
>neo-Nazism and/or racism, and the person charged calls for an argument for
>proof according to courtroom standards, and the charger replies, "Sure!  I
>will do so in front of the American Arbitration Association if you agree
>to pay all costs if I win the case - I will pay all costs if I lose," and
>the person calling for proof does not accept the challenge?
>
>    What would that make the person who asked for proof, Tommy? 
>
>    Do you remember the name of the person who demanded proof to courtroom
>standards but then ran away when Yale Edeiken offered to do just that?
>Who was that, Tommy?  Do you need some help?

	God is this thing still around? 
Evidentally you must be referring to Mr.Edeiken's proposal that I turn
my self in for anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and hate crimery, and he will
act as prosecutor. Is that it?


>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:04 PDT 1996
Article: 41249 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:02:56 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <31b59341.524259@news.pacificnet.net>
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>>
>I deleted it because I said it once but I would be happy to say it again. 
>You come up with some good posts, sometimes.  You have an irreverent
>attitude and that can be refreshing.  But sometimes your posts are just
>out and out Jew bashing and that damages the content of all of your other
>posts.
>
	I would discuss the relevance of anything I post.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:05 PDT 1996
Article: 41250 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran is winning
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:04:39 GMT
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, Bud wrote:
>
>> Moran is winning.
>
>Winning what?  And how?
>
>> Very often (not always) his point is completely ignored and the only=20
>> reply he receives is rhetorical name-calling, or some =93personal quip or=
>=20
>> accusation and such, without a shred of it having to do with his point. =
>=20
>> Now to any reasonable man, one who is willing to learn about and=20
>> understand the basis of debate, this type of response show a weakness of=
>=20
>> either evidence or control by the opposition...
>
>I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, "Bud" (why the pseudonym?), and=20
>assume you've been here only a short while.  When Mr. Moran first began=20
>posting here (September 1995, I believe), most respondents to his posts gav=
>e=20
>careful, detailed replies to his questions and corrected his errors of=20
>fact.  For the past few months, however, he has largely been re-posting=20
>material which has already been discussed and refuted.  Danny Mittleman=20
>has posted elsewhere the URL's of several DejaNews articles where you=20
>can see Mr. Moran's arguments taken apart piece by piece.

	The problem here is Mr.Kelley thinks I post things for him. The
post are not even intended for him or any of the others who have
already responded. Any repost are intended for any new vistors to
alt.rev. Mr.Kelley says they have all been refuted. He has posted the
the URL of Moran's dossier in Nizkor. What more is there to say. Next
time I repost all he or any allies have to do is post a URL.
	I trust all the contents of the dossier are in order. No
intenetioanl deletions, no special selections, everything in order as
it happened. I haven't checked the dossier myself except twice, the
last time about a month ago. At one time they had a number of my posts
that I thought they were crazy for putting in there. Evidentally
someone must have wised them up and they disappeared. I was motivated
to post an article "What Nizkor Omits From Moran's Dossier" with a
list of all that I have posted. Anyway, I'll take your word for it,
Mr.Kelley, that it is all there.  
	Having my stuff in Nizkor is like having my own web page. 

	Anyway. I post and repost.



>>=20
>> I have not seen an instance (although there might be one) where Moran has=
>=20
>> engaged in name-calling or even =93abused=94 his right of/to dissent.
>
>Perhaps you missed the two or three weeks this spring where Mr. Moran=20
>replied to virtually everyone who disagreed with him by ignoring what=20
>they said, and by saying "Here ______ (name of writer) has just wee-weed=20
>all over the computer again."  Perhaps you missed the time he accused=20
>Keith Morrison of wishing to jail all Holocaust deniers, in response to a=
>=20
>post where Mr. Morrison said precisely the opposite.  Perhaps you missed=20
>the post where Mr. Moran called Jews parasites.  Perhaps you missed the=20
>post where Mr. Moran claimed that pointing out that the U.S. Constitution=
>=20
>provides no means for national referenda was a "particularly Jewish" way=20
>of interpreting the Constitution. =20
>
>
>> I have=20
>> seen so much accusation towards him in this regard, that I cannot help=20
>> but feel he is attacked for his =93opinion=94 rather than for the issue a=
>t=20
>> discussion.  This is a glaring weakness on the part of most of his=20
>> opposition.
>
>Mr. Moran has largely been attacked for several reasons:=20
>1) He is frequently wrong on matters of simple fact.  You may wish to read =
>the=20
>FAQ's I wrote on his lies regarding the Supreme Court and the menorah, or=
>=20
>on the film _Schindler's List_.  These are archived at:
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/
>
>2) He regularly makes unsubstantiated claims, and is unable to provide=20
>evidence to support those claims.=20
>
>3) He frequently has violated netiquette by re-posting long articles to=20
>which he replies with only a single line.
>
>4) His grasp on both logic and the English language is pretty loose. =20
>
>5) Many people perceive him as rude, antisemitic, and morally loathsome.
>
>Of these reasons for attacking Mr. Moran, I think that 1-3 are the most=20
>significant, and I attempt in my own posts to stick to showing him wrong
>in substance.  When something he writes is gratuitously insulting or=20
>patently stupid, however, I see nothing wrong with twitting him back.
>=20
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"It would be such a relief to think the people in charge knew=20
>what they were doing, even if they were bent on mischief....[but]=20
>stupidity is far more important than conspiracy in determining=20
>man's fate.  Simple dumbness, along with luck, chance, and=20
>accident, runs well ahead of conspiracy in the causation category." =20
>=09=09=09=09--Molly Ivins
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 41251 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is Nizkor?
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:05:03 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <31b593fd.712047@news.pacificnet.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-25.pacificnet.net
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <2JUN199618085139@cmi.arizona.edu>, dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu
>(Danny) writes:
>
>but first Tom Moran writes:
>> 
>>>	I would invite anyone to become aware of those old Holocaust
>>>accounts which have been deleted from the story and check out Nizkor
>>>and see if any are there still being stated directly or implied as
>>>still true. The soap story, numbers at Auschwitz and a few others. 
>>>	The reason for Nizkor is as stated. To have someone out posting
>>>absurd things that the likes of the Wiesenthal Center wants to avoid
>>>responsiblilty for, yet to have it said.
>>
>>    You did lots of dancing and asking of other people to do your work
>for
>>    you, but I note that you did not clearly name even *one* fact that
>>    Nizkor and SWC differ on.  I don't feel obligated to "check out
>Nizkor
>>    and see if any are there...."  You made the assertion; you present
>the
>>    facts.
>>
>>    So far, you are just hot air.
>>
>>                         daniel david mittleman 
>
>Actually, Dan, he did name some: the soap story, numbers at Auschwitz, and
>a few others.  I don't know what the "few others" are, and I don't know
>exactly what he means by the numbers at Auschwitz, but there is an
>extensive "soap" file under Stutthof, which, among other things, contains
>descriptions handbags and such made from skin that was tanned under the
>supervision of the same Dr. Spanner who allegedly oversaw the human soap
>production.  BTW, Dr. Spanner was never prosecuted in West Germany for
>these alleged activities.
>
>I think Tom misunderstands Nizkor's purpose.  It is an all-purpose
>archive.  As such, it is invaluable (the only thing it lacks is a cross
>link to the other side, _they_ always cross link Nizkor.)  By going
>through its files you can call up all kinds of stuff, which, although it
>may not be in the current consensus of historians, is still useful.  Hell,
>I have even found revisionist stuff in there.  When they get the entire
>IMT and NMT transcripts on line that will also be a tremendous boon, even
>though those transcripts will also contain their share of falsehoods,
>like, for example, the Soviet generated testimony on Katyn!

	The problem with the 'all purpose proposal' as to Nizkor files is
they include obsolete, debunked, deleted past facts without informing
the reader they are in fact no longer a position of the story. 


>You can't have it both ways.  I would rather have an archive that
>contained everything, even disputed facts, than an archive that contained
>only a periodically updated party line.  The latter smacks too much of
>thought police to me.
>
> 
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 41252 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Prima Facie Extermination
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:06:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <31b59425.751593@news.pacificnet.net>
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dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:

>Mike Curtis wrote:
>
>>Some of us aren't confused any more. Some of us till don't
>>get what your doing. I know what you are doing. I have no >doubts.
	
	This message is one of the funniest things I have seen on
alt.rev. I personally don't know what Mr.Thomas has been up to, to
have solicited this message, but for some reason it strikes me as
funny.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:07 PDT 1996
Article: 41253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithification
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:06:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31b59450.794764@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4ooas2$3vhc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4p0h5m$l75@grivel.une.edu.au>
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 wrote:

>Subject: Re: Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithification
>From: Gord McFee, gmcfee@ibm.net
>Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:54:52 EDT
>In article <4ooas2$3vhc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Gord McFee,
>gmcfee@ibm.net writes:
>>
>>Mr. Moron, can you explain why you talk about yourself in the third
>person?
>>
>
>While I cannot presume to answer on behalf of the person
>to whom your question is addressed, I would like to point
>out that the behaviour your refer to is taken to be one
>of the characteristic symptoms of several psychotic disorders.
>I do not know which of these could be relevant here. None? Some? All?
>
>d.A.

	I kind of like the "all" option.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun  5 20:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 41254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal'
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:07:59 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
>Germany, March 5, 1946
>[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
> 
>A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
>   done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" 
>   [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
> 
>Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
> 
>A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
>   of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
>   spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
>   1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
>   forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
>   fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
>   intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
>   front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because 
>   there were not enough workers.

	Now heres a guy who was at the camp numerous times in the direct
function of installing Kremas who we should presume to be one of the
"Ordinary Germans" and "willing executioners, who we should expect to
know quite a bit about the crematoriums. A first hand, expert witness
so to speak. One might think the inquiring body would be keen on
getting a detailed picture.

 
>Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
> 
>A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
>   I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
>   which were being prepared for incineration.  That was at 10 in the 
>   morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
>   conclusion that the furnaces were working well.

	Now here the witness says he saw about 60 bodies that were being
"prepared for incineration".  What was this? Teeth being pulled out?
Stomachs being opened up in search of swallowed valuables?
	Observing 60 bodies would not be consistant with the story that
has it that hundreds or even thousands should be around. 
	He witnessed the incineration of six bodies. Was this one body
per oven chamber, or was it two or three in one? One wonders if they
didn't have some discussion on capacities and the efficiency ratio
between burning one body at a time or two or three at a time in one
unit. None of the inquiring body cared to ask for any further details.

 
>Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
> 
>A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
>   the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

	He was there in the direct capacity of the crematoriums, five
times, during the peak extermination years and all he can attest to is
"Yes, I did see one ...".
 
>Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
>   place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
> 
>A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
>   liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were 
>   subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.

	
	This is very consistant with other testimonies given. The witness
says something startling and the inquirerer just goes on to ask about
another subject instead of trying to get a thorough picture of what
went on, what did the place look like, how did the operation work.

	One might expect at least something like:
Q. You say you knew since the spring of 1943? Could you tell us how
you knew and what you knew?

Q. Could you tell us what numbers of people were being exterminated?

Q. Did you ever witness a gassing?

Q. How many bodies could the ovens handle?

Q. Did you ever have any discussion on their capacities?

Q. Do you know anything about the chain of command as to your orders?

	Now these are very basic questions which one would think should
have been pressed. Of course many replys illicit more questions and
the details would pour forth. Even for the sake of simple curiosity
one would expect further questions from the listening parties.

	Instead,    
 
>Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
> 
>A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
>   and he installed them.
> 
>Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
> 
>A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
>   furnaces was colossal.

	Typhus.

>
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.
>
>-Lu Xun.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun  6 06:56:51 PDT 1996
Article: 41328 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.dgsys.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:51:58 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31b43f3d.2114722@news.pacificnet.net>
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <31b2d903.1022319@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) writes:
>
>>
>>	There aren't going to be any "next several decades" to the
>>Holocaust discussion. The time is drawing nigh. You say, admit, you
>>tend to "downplay" controversial elements of the story and are accused
>>of focusing on irrelevance. Could be, I don't read all your stuff. As
>>far as I can tell, 99% of the story chapters are controversial, open
>>to great doubts. You may like to divert from these to mundane points,
>>I don't know for sure, but it is a tactic people use to avoid the gist
>>of a debate. Barring this, they usually resort to something like your
>>next paragraph.
>>
>>
>
>The manner in which you are divining percentages is not clear to me.  It
>would be very easy to argue that 4 million Jews died in the Holocaust, and
>that gas chambers were not used to do it, and that Germany has the
>ultimate responsibility for this.  _Look_, Adenauer _took_ the
>responsibility for it.  The above position is not my position, but it is
>apparently the latest position of (much maligned) David Irving, and basic
>arithmetic leads me to the conclusion that 66% of the story is therefore
>not controversial.  OTOH, you can step beyond Irving's position, but then,
>his knowledge and his experience with primary documents from the Third
>Reich is about 10 miles higher than anyone who contributes to this
>newsgroup.
>
	Six sero sixe's "next paragraph" deleted by 606 himself.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun  6 06:56:52 PDT 1996
Article: 41335 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!bofh.dot!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where did all the ashes go?
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 12:08:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 17
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klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>"The human ashes coming from the crematoria, tons daily, were easily 
>recognized as such, because they often contained teeth or vertebrae. 
>Nevertheless, they often were employed for several purposes: as fill for swamp 
>lands, as thermal insulation between the walls of wooden buildings, and as 
>phosphate fertilizer; and especially notable, they were used instead of gravel 
>to cover oaths of the SS village located near the camp, whether out of pure 
>callousness or because, due to their origins, they were regarded as material 
>to be trampled on, I couldn't say"
>
>Primo Levy, "The Drowned and the Saved" Translated from the Italian by Raymond 
>Rosenthal, Summit Books, a Divison of Simon & Schuster, 1986.
>
	This is fantastic ionformation. For the side of revisionism that
is.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun  6 11:16:55 PDT 1996
Article: 41380 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is Nizkor?
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 13:14:03 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <31b6d95d.1356592@news.pacificnet.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


>
>What Tom Moran is talking about here is that he thinks the SWC has
>admitted that Treblinka was not an extermination camp.  How does he know
>this?  Because he can't find Treblinka in a glossary and he thinks it
>used to be there.  Or maybe it is still there but the link is under
>construction.  Mr. Moran isn't quite clear on that.  I have no idea what
>he's talking about because Mr. Moran doesn't even know enough about the
>web to give us URLs so that we can check out what he claims.  My guess
>is that he's simply confused.

	Jamie, usually I don't even make comment on most of your stuff
because it is so obviously juvenile. You certainly have gone to some
great length here to ramble.

	I notice you have brought up the URL thing again. You recall? You
sent me a e-mail and I responded on alt.rev. under "Nizkor invite
accepted" where you and your brethren thinkers started to ask "Where
are the URLs" and then eventually started to banter between each other
about recipes. The fact is Jamie, you can't get to any of Nizkor's
files through URLs unless you click up the icons, lest of course you
give a listing right off, which you don't. In fact your site directs
the viewer around by the clickables. Now Jamie, here you are again
with your little URL thing.  W w s t t o i i t e r.
	Anyway Jamie, get ready to say bye, bye to Treblinka. If it's
missing from Wiesenthal's page because it's under construction, it's
been so for 8 months.
	You may wish to call it "mundane" as below, thats your wishful
thinking. Get ready to say bye, bye Jamie.	

>
>Whatever the case, it's obvious that he's stumbled across something
>utterly mundane and is crowing about it being a terrific find, to anyone
>who will listen.  He does this very frequently on alt.revisionism, as
>you may have seen.  His favorite technique now is to post a one- or
>two-paragraph article that I'm sure he thinks is thought-provoking.
>
	Now Jamie, I never pronounced any of my stuff "thought
provoking", but you have here. If I post something in just one
paragraph, it is because it is enough and sufficient. This really
bothers you, because you resort to lengthy meandering responses,
thinking more is better, and propelled on to the diversional tangents
by lack of faith in your own stuff.
	Most often truth is reducable to statements of brevity, a
straight road, and bull shit requires many turns, hills and dips, like
your postings and the one you have posted here. 
	Your corrupt Jamie, your just too weak and insufficient to
realize it.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun  6 14:03:01 PDT 1996
Article: 41441 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:26:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 9
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Chuck  wrote:

>More name calling. Do any of the holocaust hoax supporters debate with 
>reason ?

	Mr. Ferree, as a witness to your continuous name calling, I
realize from your post here that you have severe problems with memory,
reasoning and/or morality.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun  6 19:03:12 PDT 1996
Article: 41481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor/Wiesenthal
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 13:15:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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	Simon Wiesenthal says the reason the numbers at Auschwitz were
inflated by 3 million is because of intentional shenanigans on the
part of the Russians and Poles.
	Nizkor says it was the "4 million variant", a mistake the
Russians made in figuring the crematoria rates.
	Wiesenthal says it was intentional.
	Nizkor says it was a mistake.
	Of course there are plenty of examples of wild rumors and even
more exaggerated numbers being thrown around before the end of the
war, and that is where it all started. The Russians going into the
camp and getting some eyewitness testimony that mirrored these rumors,
the end of a long and arduous war and the stage was set. Find the
first examples of rumors and go from there. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun  7 07:12:24 PDT 1996
Article: 41497 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!izzy.net!aanews.merit.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The case of the missing file
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 15:01:43 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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	The center most thing to the Holocaust story is the gassing of
millions, yet in Nizkor files you will not be able to find anything
under 'gas' or 'Zyclone B'. Interesting.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 06:44:02 PDT 1996
Article: 41790 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 23:55:25 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>		
>	The center most thing to the Holocaust story is the gassing of
>millions, yet in Nizkor files you will not be able to find anything
>under 'gas' or 'Zyclone B'. Interesting.
	
	I would like to thank any and everyone who have taken the trouble
to correct me on the missing files. 
	Who would guess that you would have to enter "camps" first then
"Auschwitz" to get to "Zyklon B" the center of the Holocaust story.

	I was happy to see that Nizkor has reacted to my post on the
production of HCN. In that post I had cited the "Chemical
Encyclopedia" which gave "recovery from coke ovens" as one of the
industrial quantity sources for HCN. It was further clarified that the
coke ovens would be those that produced coke as opposed to ovens that
burned coke. 

	The Nizkor files on gas and Zyklon B are an ideal example of how
childish Nizkor practices are. Under "Rudolf-report" we have a piece
of a thread from alt.rev. by Roesell, and no Ruldolf-report. Under
"Ruldolf .. .001" the same. 

	It also has stuff by Harmon and Pressac, all of which wouldn't
stand up under expert cross examination. Will they be there if and
when a world wide conference should convene?

	So much of the stuff in Nizkor files is merely pieces of threads
to alt.revisionism articles and if this is the best they have they are
in deep trouble.
	The proper way for any critique, on a site like Nizkor, would be
to post any and all reports and then do the critique. Nizkor prefers
to give a discription of something in a closet without opening the
door to show it.

	There have been a number of referrences to a Degesch patent, the
producers of Zyklon B, on alt,rev., yet, inspite of a number of
request for it to be posted, none has been forthcoming. For some
reason Nizkor doesn't seem to include it. Certainly, if it was good
for the Holocaust story we would expect them to include the patent.

	There is also the case of the missing Degesch - Zyklon B manual,
said to exist. 

	There seems to be a number of things missing from the non-missing
files.  
	  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 12:42:14 PDT 1996
Article: 41830 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!nntp.micrognosis.com!inquo!bofh.dot!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's dreams vanish
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:36:01 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	After reading these responses I said to myself, Did I slip up.
Sould I have overlooked something? I went back to Nizkor and checked
it out and find that the original post is correct.
	I did find some other references under "Moran" one being a "The
Night Before Christmas" which was and is some little childish poem by
Hilary Ostrov. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 12:42:15 PDT 1996
Article: 41831 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!nntp.micrognosis.com!inquo!bofh.dot!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is Nizkor?
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:36:19 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <31b83e54.3516628@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <2JUN199618085139@cmi.arizona.edu> <4p260t$75n@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <31b6d95d.1356592@news.pacificnet.net> <31b73608.11121909@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Jun 1996 13:14:03 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>	Anyway Jamie, get ready to say bye, bye to Treblinka. If it's
>>missing from Wiesenthal's page because it's under construction, it's
>>been so for 8 months.
>
>
>http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/gloss.htm#18
>
>EXTERMINATION CAMPS 
>     Nazi camps for the mass killing of Jews and others (e.g. Gypsies,
>     Russian prisoners-of-war, ill prisoners). Known as "death camps,"
>     these included: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek,
>     Sobibor, and Treblinka. All were located in occupied Poland.
>                  ^^^^^^^^^
>Do let us know when it disappears altogether.

	Oh, I see you have found a little nook and cranny where the word
Treblinka is written. I won't have to let you know when it all
disappears, you'll be one of the first to know from other sources.

		
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 12:42:16 PDT 1996
Article: 41894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/Wiesenthal
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 12:42:17 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31b974e8.208550@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6d9bd.1452271@news.pacificnet.net> <6JUN199623204350@cmi.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-5.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <31b6d9bd.1452271@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	Simon Wiesenthal says the reason the numbers at Auschwitz were
>>inflated by 3 million is because of intentional shenanigans on the
>>part of the Russians and Poles.
>>	Nizkor says it was the "4 million variant", a mistake the
>>Russians made in figuring the crematoria rates.
>>	Wiesenthal says it was intentional.
>>	Nizkor says it was a mistake.
>
>    Interesting point, Tommy.  I will look at the two sites closer to see
>    if you have actually found a discrepincy.  In the meantime, which of
>    the two positions do you find to be more accurate?
>

		I don't go for either of the "two positions". I go for the
third position, the one you omitted. That being the Soviets just
winding up a arduous ordeal, ready and willing to capitalize on the
rumors already in circulation and the eye witness testimony of camp
inmates at the time of liberation.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 12:42:17 PDT 1996
Article: 41900 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!news.dal.ca!torn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goldhagen again
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 12:53:26 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <31b9774a.818766@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b2dfb1.2732463@news.pacificnet.net> <4ov1od$nmn@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <31b43816.284017@news.pacificnet.net> <31b737c9.11570839@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <31b83e66.3534478@news.pacificnet.net> <31b8c9e9.4101627@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-5.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:36:42 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>>Sigh. You have consistently maintained that Goldhagen's thesis is that
>>>Germans killed Jews simply because they were Germans. Yet in the
>>>letter you quote, Goldhagen very clearly denies that this is the case.
>>
>>	Convenient thinking on your part. Goldhagen's book is intended to
>>have it's readers think ill of the Germans in general. "Provocation"
>>is what it was condemned as in Germany. Goldhagen's accomodation in
>>the Times is basically in response to anyone getting a notion he meant
>>a genetic responsibility.
>
>Please quote from Goldhagen's book any passages which you think
>support the idea that Goldhagen wishes his readers to think ill of
>Germans generally.

	The title of the book gives a good idea of what Goldhagen
intends.

>
>Please quote from Goldhagen's book any passages which you think
>support the idea that Goldhagen believes that Germans killed Jews
>because they were racially German, i.e., genetically predisposed to
>kill Jews.

	Where did I say that?

>
>You have been very critical of Goldhagen's book, and I am confident
>that you have by now read enough of it to undertake or more detailed
>critique.

	Do you remember the first time around on this topic? Where are
the 10,000 extermiantion camps?
>
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 20:32:12 PDT 1996
Article: 41970 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:16:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <31b97af1.1753096@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6f1cc.7611781@news.pacificnet.net> <4p9l7e$79g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4pbn4k$j6j@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-5.pacificnet.net
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4p9l7e$79g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <31b6f1cc.7611781@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>>moran) writes:
>
>>>		
>>>	The center most thing to the Holocaust story is the gassing of
>>>millions, yet in Nizkor files you will not be able to find anything
>>>under 'gas' or 'Zyclone B'. Interesting.
>>>
>>>
>
>>That is because the files completely evaporated in ten minutes.
>
>Well, as I mentioned in another thread, you _do_ use flimsey laces,
>Mr. Ehrlich.

	Hilary, are you giving your best here? Are you taking time out to
think of what you are saying before typing it out and pushing the send
button? Or do just get a witty little idea and giggle to yourself in
self gratification, 'I'm so witty'. The answers are your posts,
Hilary. 

>hro
>
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 20:32:13 PDT 1996
Article: 41971 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:06:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31b979e1.1481107@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6f1cc.7611781@news.pacificnet.net> <31b8bf94.2305806@news.pacificnet.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-5.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>     Who would guess that you would have to enter "camps" first then
>> "Auschwitz" to get to "Zyklon B" the center of the Holocaust story.
>
>Who would have thought...!
>
>This _has_ to be a troll.  It just _has_ to be.  _Nobody_ could
>possibly be this stupid.
>
>Moran is one notch closer to joining Giwer on my troll-killfile.

	Jamie, does this mean you are not going to address the missing
material that should be in the non-missing files? 
	Jamie, where is the Degesch patent and the Degesch manual? Jamie,
how come you have a "Rudolf report" listed and all it is, is a piece
of a thread from someone else?  



>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun  8 22:28:01 PDT 1996
Article: 41980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Moran's dreams vanish
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:00:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 139
Message-ID: <31b985a9.4497313@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6d9e3.1490994@news.pacificnet.net> <4p70t7$agn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4p9ge3$n61@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-5.pacificnet.net
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:41980 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:38

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <4p70t7$agn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>
>[First Tom Moran displayed abject ignorance with the following...]
>
>>>	When Moran got into the Nizkor files to check out if they were
>>>carrying them, all his dreams escalated. Thereby "Shofar ftp" to
>>>"names" to "m" to "Moran" the first thing he saw was there were 3.29
>>>mega bytes of his stuff in there. His heart rose. This was it. Their
>>>there, all of them. Moran clicked up "Moran" which took him to a
>>>listing. But it was only 6 or 7 items long. "Menorah",
>>>"moran-challenges-self .01" and "moran-challenges-self.02", "menorah"
>>>something and some number stuff. 
>
>To which Ms. Finsten responded:
>
>>Perhaps if Moran tried looking under "people" instead of "shofar",
>>he would find his posts archived, in files that aggregate them by
>>the month.  I'm not sure how Moran's name is annotated in Nizkor, but
>>if he tries:
>
>>     http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/
>
>>Moran should be able to find himself listed, alphabetically by his last 
>>name, and find the files of his archived posts.
>
>But Moran, just yesterday, told us that one could not use
>one's rigii to use a URL to go to a specific file... of
>course, he _did_ qualify that by stating the obvious (except
>for Moran, of course), that one could not use a URL to find a
>file if one did not know the name of the file. Duh..
> 
>(Hint, for those with minds that work:     
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?INDEX)
>
>(Even that is untrue, of course, but in this case, who cares?
>Moran lies so routinely about Nizkor's files that I seriously
>doubt anyone listens to him anymore.)
>
>>Perhaps Moran will let us know if he is successful searching the
>>correct file.
>
>/home/ftp/pub/people/m/moran.tom:
But wait a minute. Where are the URLs? You know. The ones you were
harping on during "Nizkor Invite Accepted", which was never responded
to, excepting the URL diversion and a list of recipes.
>total 504
>drwxr-xr-x    2 kmcvay   ftp           96 Feb  1 08:33 1995
>drwxr-xr-x    2 kmcvay   ftp         1024 Jun  6 19:42 1996
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        20500 Jan 20 06:04 is-menorah-secular
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        21100 Mar  8 17:40 menora-faq
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        21821 Mar 16 20:48 moran-challenges-self.01
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp         2083 Mar 16 20:48 moran-challenges-self.02
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp         1167 Jun  6 19:42 moran-disbelieves-morrison
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        20893 Apr 17 07:24 moran-menorah-faq
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        13559 Jan 26 19:31 moran-on-schindler
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp        13869 Apr 16 18:41 moran-schindler-faq
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       123224 Jun  6 19:03 moran.0696
"June 6". Thats yesterday. You've had to do some work I see.
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp         9371 Apr 15 07:16 morans-lies
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp         1850 Dec  6  1995 night-b4-christmas
>
>Moran, of course, a man with an elevator that doesn't quite
>reach the penthouse, neglected searching the two directories
>within his directory. Had he used his rigii to do that, he
>would have discovered....

	Well anyway I checked out your new update and I see you have
selected some things and not others. In fact for the most part the
selections are only Moran's headers followed by a comment from
another.
	I should also point out that, of the few you did include intact,
they have no responses.
	

>
>/home/ftp/pub/people/m/moran.tom/1995: (or, for the rigii-challenged)
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1995
>
>total 822
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       114512 Dec  2  1995 moran.1195
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       281907 Dec 31 08:59 moran.1295
>
>...and, last but not least, our living proof that human beings
>need not necessarily have functional brains to use the
>Internet would have also discovered.....
>
>/home/ftp/pub/people/m/moran.tom/1996: (or, for the rigii-challenged)
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996
>
>total 5518
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       435238 Jan 31 11:48 moran.0196
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       628025 Feb 29 23:25 moran.0296
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       286294 Mar 31 17:32 moran.0396
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       548965 Apr 30 23:41 moran.0496
>-rw-r--r--    1 kmcvay   ftp       861802 May 31 17:27 moran.0596
>
>Or, for the brain-dead _and_ rigii-challenged - in short, for
>Mr. Moran himself:
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996/moran.0196
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996/moran.0296
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996/moran.0396
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996/moran.0496
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca./cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/1996/moran.0596
>
>Moran is obviously dumb enough to be a member of the National
>Appliance... I wonder if Kleim has recruited him yet? Can't
>you just see it?     
>
>Earwaxenfuehrer Griswold and Unterrigiileutnant Moran, proudly
>marching side by side, respendant in their new uniforms
>(Israeli Army surplus, died black)..... "LEFT left right left,
>LEFT right right right left, LEFT left left right...."
>
>"Mein Earwaxenfuhrer! The people are laughing at us! What are we to do?"
>
>"Lie to them, of course, Unterrigiileutnant, lie to them! Tell
>them we have minds that work. Say 'Bullshit' and 'Jackass' a
>lot!"
>
>(At which point, of course, Standartentroll Giwer, resplendant
>in both of his uniforms, arrives on the scene, and, in an
>efficient and authoritaritive voice, yells....)
>
>      "Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish 
>      reputation for integrity by saying only Jew and thus 
>      implying that we is observant?"
>
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project (Canada) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>            [Ftp] http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>            [Europe] ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 10:25:22 PDT 1996
Article: 42010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McVay, down by the school yard
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:05:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31b9a362.155108@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-18.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
	Moran had posted recently "What is "trolling"? 	
			
>	I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What
>does that mean? 
>	Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'.
>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.

	Ken McVay responded:


"I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
inability to use the English language properly, brush your
teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.

There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
(Somehow, I doubt it.)"


	NOw all we have to do is wait and see if McVay will include this
in Nizkor's dossier on Moran.


	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 10:25:23 PDT 1996
Article: 42011 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What Nizkor excludes from its dossier on Moran
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:06:05 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 248
Message-ID: <31b9a4d1.521952@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-18.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
	Nizkor has a FTP dossier on Moran's posts to alt.revisionism.
They have chosen a select few of Moran's post which they think are
easy to contend with, and by their own omission of the following list
of posts, admit the material is too incriminating to their position
and that they do not have the ability to deal with them.

			--------------------				            
Argumentum ad populum

Nizkor invite accepted

WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS

Holocausterclonism

BIG QUESTION III

Tom Moran is ...

PHOTOS HAVE BEEN FOUND

The Tally Thus Far

"AUSCHWITZ; A History in Photographs"

Pressac, Yes? Pressac, No? It all depends?

Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000

Debby's specifications; her own words

Where are the MASS GRAVES?

Rock and the Hard Place

ADL "friends of free speech" excepting ...

Auschwitz: The more photos I see the more I realize what ...

No Zyclone - then DDT

Zyclone B - powder, pellet, liquid?

80% of U.S. artisans would be Jewish if it wasn't for ...

COMPU SERVE LIED

SUSPICIONS

CENSORSHIP - SIMON SAYS AGAIN

The Official Nizkor Code of Responding

FREUDIAN ADMISSION of INADEQUACY

Zyklon B, unlikely agent

Cyanide Traces at Auschwitz Today

Jewish Holocaust - 99.999% of the story

"10,000" extermination camps - "documented"

50,000,000 "Ordinary" Germans 

Inevitably Rediculous

"Just ask for Rachelle"

Stupid Germans I through XII

Evil little German Babies

Ministry of Love

Wanted - Examples of "chutzpah"

Hollywood - Capital of degradation

Hebrew huggems

What is "chutzpah"?

Big push Holocaust

Moran in the headlines

Exaggerated claims exposed

Barracks fumigated

The more I see, the more I ...

Lay Guide to Zyklon B

The Cultured McVay

Picture this

So much for eyewitnesses

Kids stay cozy in gas chamber

Tecchnically impossible

Neo/paleo-Deholocaustolithification

Star Jewish Pop. source goes bye,bye

Best he can do?

No Zyklon, then DDT

Actions of the righteous and who needed Zyklon B

The official Nizkor code of responding

What Nizkor excludes from it's dossier on Moran

Inevitably rediculous

50,000,000 "ordinary" Germans

Jewish Holocaus- 99.999% of the story

Evil little German babies

Cyanide Traces at Auschwitz Today

Ministry of Love

Wnated - Example of chutzpah

Hollywood - Capital of degradation

Hebrew Huggems

What is chutzpah

Why is Nizkor

What is a "Jewish scholar"?

"Holocaust Day of Rememberance"

Moran said it

Moran's vision of HDL responses

Testimonial fiction

Too too good for a thread

Ordinary Arabs

Moran's definition of chutzpah confirmed

Thje Ulimate Extermination System

Ordinary Germans provoked

On your feet - it's Manuel Prutschi

WOW "100 Megabytes" WOW

Behold the Lie

Holocaust/UFO Analogy

Holocaust of Mind

When a Jew says "Shalom"

The Holocaust Magic Wand - deus ex machina

Wheres the money, gimme, gimme, gimme

Forensic Studies - Enemies of the myth

Hebrew numerology

Jewish pop. - 13, 16 or 20 million

What is "Jew baiting"?

If no lice, then no Holocaust

The Holocaust plea

Where are the Indians?

Where are the black folk?

Who stole the records

Holocuster's last stand

What is a "Holocaust survivor"?

Crematorium Rates

Seeking the first time

Holocaust "Day of Rememberance"

Beneficieries of 'Assertive Action'

Holocaust dictionary 

CHARGES	

Are Kurds evil?

What about the other ashes

Declaration of deficiency

Every day, yellow school buses

"Remember the Children"

Holocaust "Museum of Tolerance"

Condolences to Memeorial Day

Human fat fuel

What is trolling

4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000

Goldhagen again

Post your forensic studies here

Nizkor/Wiesenthal

Moran's dreams vanish

Holocaust saved from drowning

The case of the missing files




 	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 10:25:24 PDT 1996
Article: 42014 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goldhagen again
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:15:29 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31b9a6ad.998371@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b2dfb1.2732463@news.pacificnet.net> <4ov1od$nmn@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <31b43816.284017@news.pacificnet.net> <4pak4a$2vv8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <8JUN199607413374@cmi.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <4pak4a$2vv8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net writes...
>>In article <31b43816.284017@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>>moran) said:
>> 
>>>>Thanks for posting this, Tom. It demonstrates that what you and Ingrid
>>>>have been saying about Goldhagen is utter bunk.
>> 
>>>	"Utter bunk"? Whazat? Wherzat? Howzat? You don't say exactly, do you?
>> 
>>Look out folks.  Moron has a new toy.  He's obviously watched Bugs Bunny, or
>>a 30s gangster movie, and come up with the "whazat" line.  Don't despair
>>though; like all children, he will tire of it quickly.
>
>    Ah yes.  Do you remember when li'l Tommy went through his wee wee phase
>    a few months back?  He has grown up so little since then...

	Its okay McFee. Don't bother answering, Mr. Mittleman did it for
you.

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 10:25:25 PDT 1996
Article: 42063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: RODEO CLOWNS
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 16:23:01 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <31b9a722.1115526@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-18.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
	Most often than not, some revisionist will post something, a
anti-revisionist will respond, the revisionist responds to the
response, and another anti-revisionist will jump in to respond for the
other.
	Like rodeo clowns, who run out to distract the bucking steer from
the fallen rider, the brethren anti-deniers come out to respond for
each other.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 10:25:25 PDT 1996
Article: 42214 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay, down by the school yard
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 15:15:55 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <31baea20.6640157@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b9a362.155108@news.pacificnet.net> <8JUN199610094663@cmi.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@cmi.arizona.edu (Danny) wrote:

>In article <31b9a362.155108@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	Moran had posted recently "What is "trolling"? 	
>>			
>>>	I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What
>>>does that mean? 
>>>	Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'.
>>>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.
>> 
>>	Ken McVay responded:
>> 
>>"I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.
>> 
>>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>>(Somehow, I doubt it.)"
>> 
>>	NOw all we have to do is wait and see if McVay will include this
>>in Nizkor's dossier on Moran.
>
>    Of course they will.  Your response is probably already in there.  Have
>    you visited the May 96 subdirectory yet?

	Leave it up to 
>    daniel david mittleman
	to be the first to endorse another's idiocy.
 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 21:22:11 PDT 1996
Article: 42315 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No more skin heads from Mars
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 15:04:26 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <31bade5d.3629608@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net
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	Today, I checked out more of Nizkor. This time around I was going
to check the skinhead file. Previously Nizkor held extensive listing
of alleged skinhead groups around the world. Skin heads from the U.S.,
Canada, Europe, Ukriane and maybe Mars, I don't know, I never studied
it that close. Now the whole thing seems to have disappeared, leaving
only a short little commitment. Going by what is left, skinheads in
the U.S. are a major problem. Nizkor has their membership at 3, 5 or
10 thousand, take your pick. Using the 10 thousand figure we can see
there would be 1 skinhead for every 25,000 people in the U.S.

ATTENTION; Beware of the skinhead menace. They are everywhere.


	Clicking around in other departments I noticed they had a "Who is
Raven", and a "Who is Smith", but no 'Who is Zundel'.

	They also have a "anti-Semitic" cartoon without offering any
proof or argument it is "anti-Semitic". Supporters of Israel really
hate political cartoons as many others do. During the Boss Tweed days
in Tammany Hall N.Y., political cartoonist Thomas Nast would hammer
him endlessly, and the Boss tried to have political cartoons banned. I
think revisionist should utilize the cartoon as a means of expressing
an idea.

	Nizkor carries a feature clickable "Blue Print of Crema II" which
is like a cartoon itself. Looks like something someone may have
sketched up on a paper napkin in a resturant. It is a completely
useless presentation. Check it out.

	The site also reports that Jamie McCarthy is taking a leave of
powder. It says Jamie is going into his own buisness. Probably
something like a pedicure shop with a complimentary Sushi bar. Who
knows? Maybe they, Nizkor, have given him his no more talking papers.
Inspite of this he is still out here. Maybe he's now a renegade. All
this is probably not correct. I mean who would be a position at Nizkor
to make a judgement on Jamie? McVay, Hilary? Most of the time they
give him rave reviews. Perhaps the Hebrew congragation that is implied
to be the only contributor to Nizkor bucked at a Jamie request for a
raise from 50 cents an hour to 55 cents an hour.

	Even though Nizkor is a humorous little place in it's own way, it
has it's little dirty things.
	On reviewing some of the posts under "people" we are given
headers where you can click up the posters address for easy access to
send hate e-mail. 
	The worst is, Nizkor, (Jamie, McVay, Hilary and any shadow
controllers), have highlighted the news servers address for clicking
to a ready format to send off harrassing objections to the server for
allowing the poster to post his or her stuff.
     Stinking little Nizkor.    


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun  9 21:22:13 PDT 1996
Article: 42349 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 15:12:25 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <31bae981.6480820@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b1c798.13508858@news.pacificnet.net> <4oue52$n4q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31b2ee9b.6549861@news.pacificnet.net> <4pem2u$3lka@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31b2ee9b.6549861@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) said:
>
>>	There aren't going to be any "next several decades" to the
>>Holocaust discussion. The time is drawing nigh. You say, admit, you tend
>>to "downplay" controversial elements of the story and are accused of
>>focusing on irrelevance. Could be, I don't read all your stuff. As far as
>>I can tell, 99% of the story chapters are controversial, open to great
>>doubts. You may like to divert from these to mundane points, I don't know
>>for sure, but it is a tactic people use to avoid the gist of a debate.
>>Barring this, they usually resort to something like your next paragraph.
>
>Let me tell you a secret, Moron.  You scum are never going to win any
>debate.  Want to know why?  It's so damned simple that maybe even you can
>understand it.  (1) You are wrong.  The Holocaust did happen.  (2) The likes
>of you couldn't convince a bitch in heat to get laid.  You are the dregs
>left behind when Danny-boy Gannon, Craven Raven and the other losers ran
>away--ran away from the free and open debate they claim to want.  Subs like
>you and the Giwer-troll are the replacements.  See--you guys are the
>second-rate losers.  You are the runnerup losers.
>
	Ah yes. Nothing like a non-emotional, empirical treatment. Keep
up the good work "McFee".
>
>--
>Gord McFee
>
>
>
>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331
>
>                                                                                                                        



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 10 07:39:01 PDT 1996
Article: 42450 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TELL HIS MOMMY
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:10:28 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31bc2c3f.3576496@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
	Inspite of any rhetoric Nizkor people or their supporters might
fiegn on supporting free speech, Nizkor carries clickable links to
news-servers for easy access to file complaints about any of their
adversaries.
	Take the example of Nizkor dossiers of alt.revisionism posts that
it carries. Articles, or more correctly, threads in articles are
listed under "names" in their ftp files, complete with headers that
have highlighted links which include the news group, the posters
address and, and, and a link to his news-server.
	Now why would Nizkor (McVay, McCarthy and Hilary) afford
accomodation for easy access to a poster's news-server? The obvious is
obvious. They want people to e-mail objections to the news-servers of
any listed post tagged with the highlighted link.
	Evidently they must be feeling kind of limp, insecure and
impotent in dealing with their adversaries head on. An admission of
inadequacy. Lack of faith in their position. A subliminal expression
that they are corrupt.
	Poor, poor Larry, Moe and Hilary. 
	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 10 11:11:15 PDT 1996
Article: 42462 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TELL HIS MOMMY
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:49:54 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31bc35fc.631967@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
	Inspite of any rhetoric Nizkor people or their supporters might
fiegn on supporting free speech, Nizkor carries clickable links to
news-servers for easy access to file complaints about any of their
adversaries.
	Take the example of Nizkor dossiers of alt.revisionism posts that
it carries. Articles, or more correctly, threads in articles are
listed under "people" in their ftp files, complete with headers that
have highlighted links which include the news group, the posters
address and, and, and a link to his news-server.
	Now why would Nizkor (McVay, McCarthy and Hilary) afford
accomodation for easy access to a poster's news-server? The obvious is
obvious. They want people to e-mail objections to the news-servers of
any listed post tagged with the highlighted link.
	Evidently they must be feeling kind of limp, insecure and
impotent in dealing with their adversaries head on. An admission of
inadequacy. Lack of faith in their position. A subliminal expression
that they are corrupt.
	Poor, poor Larry, Moe and Hilary. 
	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 10 11:59:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59027 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31bc2c3f.3576496@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31bc2c3f.3576496@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:49:01 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <31bc35d4.591377@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141




From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 17:09:04 PDT 1996
Article: 42610 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:04:59 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <31bd6d9a.538649@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b1c798.13508858@news.pacificnet.net> <4oue52$n4q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31b2ee9b.6549861@news.pacificnet.net> <4pem2u$3lka@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <31bae981.6480820@news.pacificnet.net> <4pintk$1i8e@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31bae981.6480820@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) said:
>
>>>Let me tell you a secret, Moron.  You scum are never going to win any
>>>debate.  Want to know why?  It's so damned simple that maybe even you can
>>>understand it.  (1) You are wrong.  The Holocaust did happen.  (2) The
>likes
>>>of you couldn't convince a bitch in heat to get laid.  You are the dregs
>>>left behind when Danny-boy Gannon, Craven Raven and the other losers ran
>>>away--ran away from the free and open debate they claim to want.  Subs
>like
>>>you and the Giwer-troll are the replacements.  See--you guys are the
>>>second-rate losers.  You are the runnerup losers.
>>>
>>	Ah yes. Nothing like a non-emotional, empirical treatment. Keep up the
>>good work "McFee".
>
>You know I'm right, don't you Moron?  You never respond to my posts, but all
>of a sudden, you respond to this one.  Struck a nerve, did we?
>                                                                                                                  

	But who's nerve? Your stuff is focused on baby talk. Like the
above. If I respond to your stuff at all it is only for sport, a
little deversion. 
	You see McFee, your weak. That is why you used the word "we"
here. 
>--
>Gord McFee
>
>
>
>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331
>
>                                                                                                                          



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 17:09:05 PDT 1996
Article: 42616 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust saved from drowning
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:16:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31bd7028.1192311@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6e3af.3998155@news.pacificnet.net>  <31b83e8a.3570015@news.pacificnet.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-19.pacificnet.net
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31b83e8a.3570015@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>> karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) wrote:
>> 
>> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>> >
>> >>      "French Team Plunges Into Whirlpool"
>> >>              N.Y. Times, June 6, 1996
>> >
>> >As one who appreciates sick humor, however unintentional, as much (or
>> >more) than the next guy, I want to thank you from sharing this exceptional
>> >inanity with us. (I am, of course, making the dangerous assumption that
>> >you didn't forge the whole thing.)
>> 
>>         Do you see the quote marks? Do you notice the source and the
>> date? 
>
>Indeed. One can find the article at:
>
>http://www.cnn.com/SPORTS/OLYMPICS/9606/06/holocaust.swimmer.wir/index.html
>
>And see just how faithful your citation is. 
>
>I especially like your "quote" that: 
>
>"The article continues to say, 'About 75,000 Jews, including 12,000
>children, were deported from France to Nazi death camps duringWorld War
>II. Only about 2,500 survived.'" 
>
>When in fact it said: "About 75,000 Jews, including 12,000 children, were
>deported from France to Nazi death camps during World War II. Only about
>2,500 returned."
>
>Your misrepresentation of substituting "survived" for "returned" is
>telling in that you then use it to launch off into another one of your
>little tirades against the Holocaust, ending in: "Thus, going by the
>75,000 account, every
>single Jew that lived in France was killed - and then some."

	Mr.Van Alstine finds great significance in the use of "survived"
and "returned". The word "survived" is the word used in the N.Y.Times.

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 17:09:05 PDT 1996
Article: 42618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TELL HIS MOMMY
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:24:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31bd735b.2011353@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31bc35fc.631967@news.pacificnet.net> <4phjc7$plp@nuhou.aloha.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-19.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

jdamato@hookomo.aloha.net (John DAmato) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: [snip]	
>: 	Evidently they must be feeling kind of limp, insecure and
>: impotent in dealing with their adversaries head on. An admission of
>: inadequacy. 
>: [snip]
>
>You know, Mr. Moran, I understand that there's a lot that doctors can do 
>now about this sort of problem.

	Profound.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 17:09:06 PDT 1996
Article: 42621 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No more skin heads from Mars
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:40:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31bd75f9.2682042@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31bade5d.3629608@news.pacificnet.net> <31BC8D50.4D69@rio.com>
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:
>
>Quit bitchin' and set up your own propaganda site. I like nizkor, if 
>you can do better, fine, otherwise go away.
>Chuck
>
	When you say, "set up your own propaganda" site, do you mean as
opposed to the Nizkor propaganda site?
	I take it you have nothing else to say in defense of Nizkor.

Nature is not fair. Some are born a child, grow up a child, live as a
child, die a child.


>
>
>
>tom moran wrote:
>> 
>>         Today, I checked out more of Nizkor. This time around I was going
>>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 19:22:40 PDT 1996
Article: 42634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Boys in the Sand
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:41:01 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <31bd8578.6648396@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-27.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


	On May 7, 1996
Moran posted: "The Official Nizkor Code of Responding"
                              
	                    Hillary Ostrov
                        (Nizkor co-webmaster)
			           alt.revisionism
			      "No Zyklone - then DDT"

	          "Many of us believe that ridicule
                  is the most appropriate response to
                  one who(offers) up thoroughly idiotic
                  questions and responses."


	'We at Nizkor will be the ultimate authority on what
constitutes "idiotic questions and responses".
	
	Actually, it is a childish ploy for evasion. Hilary has never,
as far as I know, posted anything of substance.	Of course she could
come back and post some of her stuff to rebuke this claim. Okay
Hillary, go for it.


And then the responses:


Mr.Litt: No, that;s Okay, I'm apparently up before Hilary this
morning, so I'll start.
"Hilary has never, as far as I know, posted anything of substance."
It's amazing how Li'l Tommy seems to believe the concept of the Big
Lie -- Repeat a lie long enough and people will believe it's true.
Ms. Ostrov has of course posted much of substance, but Tommy thinks
all he has to do is ignore it, and keep saying he hasn't seen it, and
voila!  it doesn't exist.
Of course, Li'l Tommy has posted almost no articles containing
substance. Unless TOmmy thinks that things like "Hebrew Huggems," a
rant about the supposed physical characteristics of Jooooos,
constitutes "substance."
Li'l Tommy also has the idea that publishing the same inaccurate,
unsourced, previously refuted material is "substance."
It's gotten to the point where Mr. MOrris is now using DejaNews to
publish the same facts and answers given the last few times Li'l Tommy
posted the *same exact crap.* Either Li'l Tommy is trying to speak
Hebrew, and failing, or he's unaware that in English, one capitalizes
an acronym.


Mr. Edeiken: "Let us not forget that L'il Tommy's concept of
"substance" is to 'blurtaciously' boast about groups of thugs beating
up little girls because they are Jewish and describing a lawsuit
brought by the KKK as being part of a "Jewish conspiracy." (Still
counting, L'il Tommy?)  Since Ostrov has never proposed that 
gangs of thugs should beat up little girls because they are Jewish and
is witting enough to know that the KKK is not a Jewish organization,
(her main fault seems to be defaulting on her announced duty of
distributing Official ZOG Decoder Rings and blaming her default on the
excellent staff of Murchie's) it becomes apparent why L'ill Tommy
thinks she has posted nothing of substance.
	--YFE


Mr. Mittleman: "Tommy is refighting WWII using junior high school
pranks to do it.  Its pathetic, really."

            
Mr. Van Alstine: "Ah, more compost from Tommy. Must be spring, as
Tommy's is obviusly out playing in his garbage pile..."


Mr. McFee: "Moran attains the heights of his intellectual power."



Mr.Mittleman:  "Either that, or he's got peanut butter on his
fingers...


Mr. McFee: "At least Giwer is just a troll.  Moran relishes in this
stuff.  Sick little pervert."



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 19:22:43 PDT 1996
Article: 42635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:44:07 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 175
Message-ID: <31bd862d.6829978@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-27.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


		Behold the lie, tell your friends.

	For those who are new to investigating whether or not the
Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory
sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it
comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It
is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves.

	A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced.
After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism"
those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have
had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the
previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been
exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of
1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to
keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the
Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter
so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision
process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a
bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace,
style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. 

	As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at
Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I
give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

                            --------
	
       "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put
at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the
former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million.
Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust
are much lower than previously thought?"

*("well over" meaning 4 million)

	The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an
"invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R.,
"to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely
overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau
by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the
figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that
their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims".
       
        Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just
go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic.

	"The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust
has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures."

                             ---------

	Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall
6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at
Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000
down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to
see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a
blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader.
	
  
   Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the
   Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews
	
   Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz 
   dead at about 2,300,000.
 
   "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_.  Chicago: World Book,
   1980.  2,500,000

   Billig, Joseph.  _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du
   Reich hitlerien_.  Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973.
   pp 101-102. 2,000,000

   Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974.  p
   855.  1,000,000 to 2,500,000

   Friedman, Filip.  _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_.
   Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich.  London:
   The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000

   Kamenetksy, Ihor.  _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_.  New
   Haven: College and University Press, 1961.  p174   2,500,000

   Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_.  Berlin,  1974, 157.  3,500,000 to

   4,500,000
   
   Wellers, Georges.  "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au
   camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 
   1,600,000
   
   Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz:
   Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_.  Reinbek bei
   Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211.  2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Czech, D.  "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte,"
   in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des
   Konzentrationslagers_.  Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof.  _Resistance in the Nazi concentration
   camps, 1933-1945_.  Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982,
   44. 	2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Madajczyk, Czeslaw.  _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce;
   okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_.  Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe,
   1970, 293-94.  2,800,000 to 4,000,000

   _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator
   encyklopedyczny_.  Warsaw: Panst.  Wydaw.  Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Nora Levin's "The Holocaust",  2,000,000 to 2,300,000
  
   Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991
   Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000

   
                             -------

	So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the
6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with
the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence
to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite
anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which
would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those
numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000
Jews.

	This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our
daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to
death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at
Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of
those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite
anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what
number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to
have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews,
to see how wide spread the figures are.
	
	Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization
involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust
story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they
are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are
committing a lie. 
	In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal
Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the
pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the
record straight? 				    
	It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the
initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact
struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be
suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust
beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were.

       	     Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends

	How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz?
	How many do you think were Jewish?

	The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000
or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to
yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust
beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was
always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later.
	
	WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story
has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a
number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping
away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed
"anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis".
	
	
		



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 11 19:22:44 PDT 1996
Article: 42638 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:09:21 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31bd8b3f.8127307@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6f1cc.7611781@news.pacificnet.net> <31b8bf94.2305806@news.pacificnet.net>  <31b979e1.1481107@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>>     Who would guess that you would have to enter "camps" first then
>>> "Auschwitz" to get to "Zyklon B" the center of the Holocaust story.
>>
>>Who would have thought...!
>>
>>This _has_ to be a troll.  It just _has_ to be.  _Nobody_ could
>>possibly be this stupid.
>>
>>Moran is one notch closer to joining Giwer on my troll-killfile.
>
>	Jamie, does this mean you are not going to address the missing
>material that should be in the non-missing files? 
>	Jamie, where is the Degesch patent and the Degesch manual? Jamie,
>how come you have a "Rudolf report" listed and all it is, is a piece
>of a thread from someone else?  
>
	If no Jamie, then how about McVay? It would be fun to see
Hilary's alibi also.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 12 10:37:43 PDT 1996
Article: 42688 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TELL HIS MOMMY
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:28:25 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <31bd73c2.2115051@news.pacificnet.net>
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>	
>>	Inspite of any rhetoric Nizkor people or their supporters might
>>fiegn on supporting free speech, Nizkor carries clickable links to
>>news-servers for easy access to file complaints about any of their
>>adversaries.
>>	Take the example of Nizkor dossiers of alt.revisionism posts that
>>it carries. Articles, or more correctly, threads in articles are
>>listed under "people" in their ftp files, complete with headers that
>>have highlighted links which include the news group, the posters
>>address and, and, and a link to his news-server.
>>	Now why would Nizkor (McVay, McCarthy and Hilary) afford
>>accomodation for easy access to a poster's news-server? The obvious is
>>obvious. They want people to e-mail objections to the news-servers of
>>any listed post tagged with the highlighted link.
>>	Evidently they must be feeling kind of limp, insecure and
>>impotent in dealing with their adversaries head on. An admission of
>>inadequacy. Lack of faith in their position. A subliminal expression
>>that they are corrupt.
>>	Poor, poor Larry, Moe and Hilary. 
>
>	Before these wrong kind of posts stop being posted it would be of
>interest to collect the responses of the Gang of Six (or Seven)
>for future reference.
>
>	After all, some day they may achieve the publicity and fame they
>crave.  At that point there will be press interviews, talk shows,
>all the rest.  
>
>	And then there will be opportunities for confrontation.
>
>	For example, 
>
>	"Mr. McVay, when the statement was made that crematoria do not
>have the capacity to accomodate the number of bodies produced,
>did you not say, and I quote, 'The only problem with the
>cremation rate is that your father did not know how to use a
>condom'?"  

	McVay says a lot of stupid things that will come back to haunt
him. Even though he has probably said hundreds of stupid things, just
ten at a revisionist booth will be enough to show the real inner
McVay. 

>	A fertile mind can envision many such opportunities using the
>posts fo the entire Gang.    
>
>	Do not forget that these folks are expecting the praise of their
>fellow holohuggers for their activities.  Nothing will shoot down
>public praise faster than making them unsuitable for public use.
>
>
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 12 16:26:05 PDT 1996
Article: 42865 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news2.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:05:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <31becbf1.1097950@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6f1cc.7611781@news.pacificnet.net> <31b8bf94.2305806@news.pacificnet.net>  <31b979e1.1481107@news.pacificnet.net> <31bd8b3f.8127307@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>>    Jamie, does this mean you are not going to address the missing
>> material that should be in the non-missing files?


Jamie:
"I might, if you explain to me what you're talking about.

If you mean your own inability to find the directories under the
heading "moran.tom" (hint: check where it says "Directory Name")
then -- yes, I am not going to address it.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

 Jamie, where is the Degesch patent

It's awfully presumptuous to snipe at us for not doing your research
fast enough for you.

 and the Degesch manual?

I've got hardcopy of most of it;  if you'd like to key it in for us,
I'll be happy to snail-mail it to you.  These things take time, you
know.  Or maybe you don't know.  I don't know."
                          _____________

Moran:
	Jamie, when you say things take time, how long does it take to
scan in a report, manual or whatever? How long have you had it, the
manual? I take it to mean you are saying you don't have the patent.
You say I am chiding you for not doing your "research fast enough" as
to the patent, but how long does it take to acquire a copy of this
patent? You have the connections, some of them out here who have
referred to it.
	Jamie, when you say you have "part" of the manual, how is it you
don't have the full thing?




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 14 07:17:55 PDT 1996
Article: 43055 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust saved from drowning
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:59:41 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <31c01ebb.534530@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31b6e3af.3998155@news.pacificnet.net>  <31b83e8a.3570015@news.pacificnet.net>  
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article , karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles
>R.L. Power) wrote:
>
>> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>> 
>> >       Do you see the quote marks? Do you notice the source and the
>> >date? 
>> 
>> Tommy, the plain fact is that I don't trust you, based on my experience
>> with you. 
>
>Indeed. It is a mistrust that is well-deserved. This instance included. 
>
>> But this story is apparently authentic--a WASHINGTON POST
>> columnist repeated it in this morning's edition.
>
>It can also be found at the CNN website. The interesting thing is that it
>appears that Moran misquoted the article. He then takes great liberties
>with the article, based on his misquotation, as the basis for yet another
>groundless and puerile attack on the Holocaust.
>
>How Moranic (tm).

	Why don't you set the record straight, instead of making a
blanket conclusion without support? 
>
>Mark
>
>
>posted/e-mailed
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 14 07:17:56 PDT 1996
Article: 43098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news.campus.mci.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Photos deny the story
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:49:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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	Published in "Scientific American" March, 1996, "The Art and
Science of Photoreconnaissance" is a aerial photograph of the
Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp.
	Even though the Holocaust story has it that all the crematoriums
were destroyed by the Nazis this photograph taken Jan. 14, 1945, four
days before the Soviet liberation of the camp on Jan. 18th, shows
three of them intact. Cremas II, III and V.
	Whatever alibis Holocaust supporters come up with, the Germans
could not have destroyed these buildings in the four days and removed
all traces. Especially with the approach of the Soviets so imminent.
After all it was only four days, which we must realize the Germans
would have known that its being overtaken by the Soviets would be
imminent, and they would have realized this weeks, even months in
advance.
	If crimes of the magnitude alleged were committed, it is certain
the Germans would have tended to matters way before.
	It is written hte Soviets installed a "Extraordinary Commission"
the very day of liberation of the camp and yet no photos are presented
on the Holocaust promotional circuit of these buildings, or what was
left, lest of course the one and only photograph of "Crema II" which
is nothing more than a collapsed slab of concrete.     
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 14 11:55:03 PDT 1996
Article: 65644 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31c02dd6.4401359@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31c02dd6.4401359@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:23:47 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 14 15:01:34 PDT 1996
Article: 43225 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran Lies About the Dead Sea Scrolls-- Part I
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:29:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 168
Message-ID: <31c040d3.205035@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4po6ta$553@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>	In a recent post about the Dead Sea Scrolls L'il Tommy trotted out his 
>tattered stock of anti-Semitic canards.  In that post, among the blatent fabrications, 
>distortions, and hate-mongering smears was the claim that L'il Tommy had obtained 
>his information directly from "Mr. Moffet" of the Huntington Library and concluded 
>with the challenge "Morris, where did you say you got your information?"
>
>	Since the image of L'il Tommy in a library is as incongruous as a polar 
>bear in a tuxedo, I contacted the Huntington Library to ascertain whether they had 
>any disagreement with L'il Tommy's statements.  They requested a fax of his 
>statements and the entire post was provided.  I received the following 
>communcation from David S. Zeidberg, Director of the Huntington Library, dated 5 
>June 1996 (typos are mine):
>
>			--------------------------------
>
Thank you for your letter of 4 June, received by telefacsimile late 
yesterday.  Speaking as both a principal officer of the Huntington and
as a humanist offended by bigotry, I share your concerns about Mr. Tom
Moran's depiction of the release of of microfilm of the Dead Sea
Scrolls and his characterization of the Huntington's motives in doing
so.  Furthermore, Mr. Moran's comments do a great disservice to my
predecessor, the late Dr. William A. Moffett, whose unwavering beleif
in intellectual freedom and whose courage to put those beliefs into
practice were to only two motives for making the Huntington's 
photographic copies of the Dead Sea Scrolls available for wider
access.

	Bill Moffett, who passed away in February 1995, was widely
regarded both nationally and internationally as a champion of
intellectual freedom.  He had served as president of the Association
of College and Research Libraries (ACRL) and received its highest
award of "Librarian of the Year" for his distinguished service to the
profession.  Together with its parent organization,  the American 
Library Association, the ACRL has issued policy statements on
intellectual freedom and on the ethical behavior of librarians and
curators in making scolarly resouces available to all researchers
wanting access.  Bill defended these policies every day of his life,
and it is most unfortunate that he is no longer here to set straight
the mis-information and dis-information that Mr. Moran is broadcating
via the World Wide Web.

	Perhaps the enclosed brochure, which Bill developed in the form
of frequenty-asked-questions, will put his voice to this issue still
and give you and others who read this a sense of teh focus of Bill's
intentions and actions.  There is a more detailed account of the
release of photographic copies of the Dead Sea Scrolls in Hershel
Shank's "Publisher's Foreward" to "A Facsimile Edition of the 
Dead Sea Scrolls" (Washington DC: The Biblical Archeology Society,
1991; reprinted 1992), The Huntington and Bill Moffett were hailed
there and in the press worldwide for their actions.

	As Bill Moffett's sucessor, I cannot state too strongly the
Huntington's abhorrence of statement like those of Mr. Moran's.  He
has twisted and embellished the facts concerning the release of the
Dead Sea Scrolls to serve his bigotry and anti-Semitism.  I would be
pleased to have this letter in its entirety and the contents of Bill
Moffett's "The Huntington and the Dead Sea Scrolls" mounted on the
World Wide Web as antidotes to Mr. Moran's poison.
                             ______________


	Well the hapless Mr.David S. Zeidberg, current Director of the
Huntington Library, has certainly put himself into the fracus of the
Internet. For now I am just going to post whatever I said in response
to "j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years". This is the post where this
controversy began and the location which Mr.Edeiken omitted from
referring to, which he should have.
	I have posted the two main statements, below, that I wrote in
that thread for the record. I don't know which one Mr.Edeiken sent to
Mr.Zeidberg or if he sent both, Mr.Edeiken doesn't say. I don't know
if Mr.Edeiken altered any of it or not. 
	What is here and now is the communication Mr. Zeidberg sent to
Mr.Edeiken and Mr.Zeidberg's statements, which absolutely do not
address one single component of my posts. All he has done is flail off
into a tirade. Now Mr.Zeidberg is going to be called to
alt.revisionism to support his statements which are nothing more than
charges.
	Mr. Zeidberg has responded to whatever Mr.Edeiken has given him
by charging "bigotry", "great diservice to  ....Mr. Moffett",
misinformation and disinformation", "twisted and embellished the
facts", "anti-Semitism" and delivering "poison".
	Mr.Edeiken has posted this which he recieved on 6/5. Mr.Zeidberg
supplied Mr.Edeiken with a "brochure" and the name of Hershel Shanks
as a source for the facts, which we may suppose is going to be
supplied to the group as 'Part II'.

For now, the two main statements I have made under "j*ws hid scrolls
for 40 years" for comparison to Mr.Zeidberg's statements.
 
1st major statement by "Tom moran" in the thread, 5/20:

The reason the Jews kept a lid on the contents of the Dead Sea
Scrolls is because they are an embarrassment. If there was anything
profound in them, copies would have been released years ago. 
	The Jews are engaged in wild way out interpretations to give them
a heavy worth, such as Neal Silberman's book and a number of others.
The only book I have seen of worth and scholastic credibility is one
done by John Allegro the lead member from England to help decipher the
text. A full 2/3 of the book is bibliography containing the special
notations scholars use to translate ancient text and was aimed at the
scholar. 
	Allegro's conclusions were that the scrolls are loaded with
sexual referrences, that the writer(s) were of a fertility cult that
centered around sexual rituals under the influence of the pschedelic
mushroom Amaritas muscharia.
	Naturally Allegro got on the shit list for this address as did
another American scholar who ended up saying a number of negatives
about the Israelis and their religion after being there for a number
of years. He was pronounced insane.
	Just a few years ago the Jews went crazy over the release of the
entire copies of the scrolls by the Huntington Library in California.
Much crying and gnashing of teeth took place, including the usual
charges of "anti-Semitic" and threats of law suits.
	The scrolls are nothing if not an indictment against the
mentality of those who wrote them by present standards and this is why
the Jews did not want them unleashed for public, independant scrutiny,
preferring instead to write books that hype them into being something
more than they are.
	"The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross", by John 
Allegro. Two thirds of the book aimed at the scholar with the special
notations. An objective work, detailed, itemized. 


Second statement by "Tom Moran" 6/1:

	Mr. Morris, where did you get this information? Was it some
Jewish source? They have an extensive history of degrading Catholics.
	The scrolls were held by Jordan and taken after the Jews invaded
that country.
	The scrolls have been in Jewish hands for over forty years and
here you are blaming it on someone else.
	As I said in my first response, I talked personally with the head
of the Huntingtom Library, Mr.Moffet, and the library's photographer,
to which I said, "more on this later". It's later.
	The way the Huntington Library came into possession of the scroll
copies was, a woman, Mrs.Lan ... had copies and hired the library
photographer to photograph them. A dispute arose about payment and the
photographer turned copies of the copies over to Mr. Moffet, and he
released them.
	It wasn't any Franciscans or Catholic Church who had a problem
with the release, or any one else, excepting the Israelis and their
Jewish amen corner here in the U.S.
	Threats of legal action and the crys of "anti-Semitism" were the
arguing tools.
	What were they trying to hide? Read "The Sacred Mushroom and the
Cross" by John Allegro, the lead member of the British team ask by
Israel to help decipher the texts. Boy, did he get on the s___ list.
	As I mentioned before, there was an American scholar there who
evidentally had problems with whatever intrigues took place and made a
negative statement for which he was announced insane. The invited
scholars probably had trouble with the Jews over interpretations.
	The day I met Mr.Moffet, a Jewish professor was there to give a
talk to ever showed up at the get together, which was advertised in
the L.A. Times.
	He was delivering some real corny rhetoric and as time went on
his voice would get lower and lower. There were about three people
there who were taking recordings. Two of them held their recorders out
into the aisle so as to avoid anyone in front of them from muffling
the diminishing voice. When the professor noticed this, his voice got
even lower and lower until you couldn't even make out what he was
saying. I took this to mean he was conciously aware he was slinging
bull.

	Morris, where did you say you got your information?

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 15 10:19:52 PDT 1996
Article: 43393 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Evil Christians
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:23:42 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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 "Southern Baptist Convention Votes to Try to Convert Jews"
                    N.Y. Times, June 14, 1996

	"The Southern Baptist Convention today adopted a resolution
calling for efforts to convert Jews.

	Early reaction to the Southern Baptist's resoultion, ...
suggested that it was certain to strain relations with Jewish groups.

	News of the resolution, and of the missionary appointment,
brought criticism in interviews with two leading Jewish specialists in
interreligious relations.

	'My reaction is this is a great setback', said Rabbi A. James
Rudin, ... American Jewish Committee.

	Rabbi Leon Klenicki, ...Anti-Defamation League, ...said he was
'very sad' about the resolution, 'Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews'.
                         ______________


	On the flip side of the page, was one of those full page
propaganda layouts by the same ADL, exploiting the wide spread fires
to black churches.
	          "The Fire of Hate Consumes Us All" 
	Below a 9" X 9" photo of a burning church the copy includes:
"They have defaced the values that affect each of us. They have
violated our American guarantees of freedom regardless of race,
religion or ethnicity".

	"At the Anti-Defamation League, we know all too well that people
of goodwill must never be silent in the face of bigotry. The
consequences of silence are deadly."

	"ADL will continue to combat hatred and bigotry on other fronts
as well--tracking and exposing haters and hate groups, promoting laws
against hate crimes ..."

	The full page ad winds up:
"Edmund Burke said it best, '"All that is necessary for the triumph of
evil is for good men to do nothing".

	Of course it is well documented how this ADL and all the other
Jewish organizations work very hard to silence any negative discussion
about Israel. And it is no secret that Holocaust revisionism is a hate
crime in the minds of the likes of the ADL.   
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 15 10:19:53 PDT 1996
Article: 43431 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photos deny the story
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:27:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	The caption under the photograph in question here states the
liberation of Auschwitz took place on Janurary 27, 1945. As I reported
in the lead article, another date is Janurary 18, 1945, as given in
"Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp". 
	The caption also says "The photograph indicates that the gas
chambers have been or are being destroyed and that the evacuation of
the complex had begun".
	Here in the highly respected "Scientific American" we have the
copy telling us white is black or vice versa. The photos show
everything intact as to Cremas II, III and V.
	It is incredible that a publication like the Scientific American
should engage in showing a photograph that clearly shows one thing and
then alleges that it shows something else.
	It seems everything that gets mixed up with supporting the
Holocuast story ends up stupid, even Scientific American.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 15 10:19:53 PDT 1996
Article: 43432 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The case of the missing file
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:52:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <31c2bda9.2652328@news.pacificnet.net>
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>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>
>>>>     Who would guess that you would have to enter "camps" first then
>>>> "Auschwitz" to get to "Zyklon B" the center of the Holocaust story.
>>>
>>>Who would have thought...!
>>>
>>>This _has_ to be a troll.  It just _has_ to be.  _Nobody_ could
>>>possibly be this stupid.
>>>
>>>Moran is one notch closer to joining Giwer on my troll-killfile.
>>
>>	Jamie, does this mean you are not going to address the missing
>>material that should be in the non-missing files? 
>>	Jamie, where is the Degesch patent and the Degesch manual? Jamie,
>>how come you have a "Rudolf report" listed and all it is, is a piece
>>of a thread from someone else?  
>
>    What is really interesting is that the "Rudolf Report" is cited as
>evidence by the Zundelsite and CODOH's site.  Yet do you see the report
>itself on their sites?  I hear revisionists talk about what really super
>duper wonderful evidence it is, but I can't find it there either.  "It's
>really good - trust us."

	Nizkor presses itself as a research facility. It claims to hold
>from  2,500 to 4,000 archives. It raves about the thoroughness of it
all. Jamie claims they have too many other things to do before simply
scanning in a couple of reports. Among the important things is posting
pieces of alt.rev. threads.
	Zyklon B, Mr.Stein. Gas, Mr. Stein. This is what the story
focuses around. 
	Where is the Degesch patent? Where is the Degesch manual?
	Why is McVay taking the time to post his little nitwit responses
to whatever out here when he should be scanning in what we should
suppose is evidence for the story? If no patent on Nizkor then nothing
good for the story. If no manual, then nothing good for the story.
Perhaps even - not good for the story?



>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 15 10:19:54 PDT 1996
Article: 43445 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photos deny the story
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:52:46 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 24
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	More comment on the caption of the aerial photo in Scientific
American.

	The caption states and mimics the Holocaust story that the Cremas
"have been or are being destroyed". The story has it that the Germans
destroyed the facilities in order to obliterate the evidence of mass
extermination. The photo also has pointers inserted that state
"Section I partially dismantled", "Section III dismantled" and "Guard
towers dismantled".
	The photos show that some of the buildings in the womens camp are
missing. It also shows the Section III considerably "dismantled". The
story says the Cremas were dismantled to cover up evidence, but how do
we explain the 12 "dismantled" barracks in the womens camp out of the
19 original barracks? As for Section III, this section is shown quite
thoroughly razed when compared to other aerial reconnoissance photos.
Whether this section was destroyed by the Germans or the Allied
bombing referred to in the caption I do not know. Whatever, if the
story should come and say it was all dismantled by the Germans we
would have to wonder why they would have spent so much time on
dismantling these other facilities instead of concentrating on
destroying the alleged evidence of mass extermination, which are shown
totally intact.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 08:43:22 PDT 1996
Article: 43595 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At least part of the Degesh publication
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:57:55 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <31c2cf1d.7120367@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4pq3i3$eoi@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4pq89d$gcl@access5.digex.net> <4pqqg4$ser@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> 
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <4pqqg4$ser@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:
>
>> mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <4pq3i3$eoi@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
>> >Matt Giwer  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>I wonder if the ten hour ventilation time has anything to do with 
>> >>the long promised Degesh pub not showing up before.  
>> 
>> >[snip]
>> 
>> >It has been discussed here before.  The pub is for unpowered natural
>> >ventilation in a normal living space, with all the nooks and crannies.
>> >Sorry, it is not the same.  Notice that they say to open the windows, not
>> >switch on the ventilation system.
>> 
>>         How about the color not being blue?  
>
>The DEGESCH document titled "Directives for the Use of Prussic Acid
>(Zyklon) for the Destruction of Vermin (Disinfestation)" [NI-9912] states:
>
>"ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
>a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess -
>Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers."
>(_Technique_, p.18; and
>http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith/incon/zyklon.html)


	What? You mean a revisionists page carries the Degesch manual and
Nizkor doesn't? Interesting.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 08:43:23 PDT 1996
Article: 43647 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photos deny the story
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:20:26 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 36
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31c031cc.5416099@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>The title of this thread should be called "Moran denies the photos" given
>that Moran completely and unequivocably misrepresents both the photo in
>_Scientific American_ and the sequence of events that led to the final
>destruction of the Kremas. Moran's claim that the Nazis did not start the
>demolition of the Kremas months prior to their actual destruction in
>January 1945 and the Russian liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau clearly
>contradicts the eywitness testimony, photographs, and SS reports that
>detail otherwise.

>"...This image, taken as Russian troops approached on January 14, 1945,
>shows the snow that Elie Weisel, who was in the complex at the time, wrote
>of in _Night_. The photograph indicates that the gas chambers have been or
>are being destroyed and that the evacuation of the complex had begun...."
>(Scientific Amercian_, March 1996; p.84 [caption to photo of the Birkenau
>camp].) 

	Anyone wanting to see if the Kremas II, III and V are in fact in
tact when the photo was taken can simply go to the library and look up
the issue of "Scientific American", March, pg. 84. Whatever Mr. Van
Alstine says here is denied by the photo itself. A most rediculous
thing. Mr.VanAlstine mimics the photo caption's statement the Kremmas
are in the process of being torn down, when in fact there is nothing
in the photo that would even remotely support this. 
	Mr.VanAlstine makes the above claim and then goes off with
another 100 + lines to reiterate it and go off into tangentical
directions in order to divert from the reality.
	Anyone wanting to see if Mr.VanAlstine or the caption is correct
should check out the publication. Look at it without a magnifying
glass or with one, even a loupe', and you will see the facts.
	The fact that Elie Wiesel wrote a book called "Snow" and there is
snow on the ground in the photo does nothing to support anything.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 08:43:24 PDT 1996
Article: 43684 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Christians
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:36:29 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31c2bbcc.2175359@news.pacificnet.net>
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:23:42 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>> "Southern Baptist Convention Votes to Try to Convert Jews"
>>                    N.Y. Times, June 14, 1996
>
>[snip]
>
>Would you be upset with Moslems if they objected to efforts to convert
>them to Judaism?
>
>Well? So? What's your point?

	The point certaintly is not whether or not I agree with anyones
objection to conversion of their belief to another, the point is the
statement about Christians and the Holocaust.

>
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 08:43:24 PDT 1996
Article: 43807 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: truer than true testimony
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:40:12 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 7
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	Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithification: The result of comparing
older Holocaust accounts that were once written in stone to newer
accounts that are currently written in stone.

	Its obvious that Mr.Giwer is the prevailing
Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithificationologist on alt.revisionism.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 13:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 43834 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More Holocaust book racist statement
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 13:54:53 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <31c4120c.182186@news.pacificnet.net>
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	This will be added to the current accounts of Jewish racist
statements that are periodically posted under "Holocaust of Mind",
including 3 or 4 that came from Holocaust books.

VIII (a).  According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A
History of the Holocaust":

	"The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large
measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members."
                          ===============



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 16:13:16 PDT 1996
Article: 43888 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No wonder we can't find the bodies
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 13:54:00 GMT
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	Here I keep seeing it said this guy Giwer is a troll and then he
unleashes a cornucopia, a rapid fire, a whole volley, a flood, a
hurricane, a 100 mega-ton series of articles that just about washes up
the Holocaust story. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 16 19:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 43923 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photos deny the story
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:22:54 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 11
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References: <31c031cc.5416099@news.pacificnet.net> <31c2c879.5420713@news.pacificnet.net> <4pv5i9$g5h@nuhou.aloha.net>
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jdamato@hookomo.aloha.net (John DAmato) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: [a lot of convoluted, unpersuasive garbage]
>
>Ooops!  Nothing left!
>
>Even by your standards, this thread is pathetic.

	So much for an empirical response. I guess if you can't respond
point by point, committ baby talk.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 19 11:00:06 PDT 1996
Article: 44505 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photos deny the story
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:55:40 GMT
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jdamato@hookomo.aloha.net (John DAmato) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: jdamato@hookomo.aloha.net (John DAmato) wrote:
>: 
>: >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: >: [a lot of convoluted, unpersuasive garbage]
>: >
>: >Ooops!  Nothing left!
>: >
>: >Even by your standards, this thread is pathetic.
>: 
>: 	So much for an empirical response. I guess if you can't respond
>: point by point, committ baby talk.
>
>On the contrary.  My response was rigorously empirical and point-by-point.

Now you have me wondering how you get across the street without
getting run over? I take it you just tell yourself it's okay to cross
without looking.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 19 11:00:07 PDT 1996
Article: 44573 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Birkenau kitchens and mess halls?
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:21:08 GMT
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	Aerial photographs and plans of Auschwitz I (main camp) often
have a arrow pointing out the camp kitchen. Running length wise and
perpendicular to the barracks it can clearly be seen that it is about
four barrack widths long including the areas between the barracks. It
also has two sizable extensions that jut out from the building at each
end with right angle returns at the ends of these that turn in towards
each other forming a sort of court yard. We can assume this facility
had dining area, which would account for its size. The Auschwitz I
camp has only about 28 barracks for inmates and yet this kitchen is a
sizable structure.
	Quite often when doing an investigation, it is important to
consider what is not there as much as what is there.
	I have yet to see a aerial photo of Birkenau with the camp
kitchen(s) identified. Birkenau had maybe six or seven times the
population as Auschwitz I at 100,000.
	We should expect there were a number of kitchens with dining
areas in the Birkenau complex, including seperate ones in the womens
camp. Oddly, there are two buildings distinguishable in the womens
camp that appear to be long structures with a ell extensions jutting
out from the centers. These buildings appear to be exact replicas in
design and dimension as Cremas II and III.
	If anyone has any information on where the Birkenau kithen(s)
were located I would be interested in the information.  
	 
	
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 19 13:02:06 PDT 1996
Article: 44603 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:16:15 GMT
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	Scientific American is a highly respected magazine that generally
gives keen reports on various scientific and technical breakthroughs
and studies. In it's March 1996 edition, as reported under alt.rev
"Photos deny the story", a presentation was given on aerial photo
reconnaissance, with one of the exihibits being a aerial photo of
Auschwitz-Birkenau taken by the Allies Janurary 14, 1945, just days
before the liberation of the camp by Soviet forces.

	A sizable caption below the photo begins:

	"Allied reconnaissance in support of the bombing missions against
the IG Farben synthetic rubber and fuel plant in 1944 and 1945
sometimes inadvertantly produced images of the nearby
Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp."
	I would take special note of the word "inadvertantly". Seeing how
it is said that many reports were coming out of the front about this
camp being a center of mass extermination of Jews, we should wonder
why the Allies wouldn't have done an intentional focus on the camp
during it's reconnaissance of the immediate adjacent Farben works.
Inspite of any books that have been written that find the United
States culpable in the Holocaust story it is likely the word would
have been passed on to the military command responsible for the
reconnaissance and a aerial survey would have been included.
	I would say this photo was taken intentionaly in order to see if
there was any evidence to support the rumors and /or to see if any
damage had been done to the prisoner camp itself. Since other photos
of the camp were taken months before, we might get the idea these
photos were taken in order to confirm the rumors that had been
circulating years before that, and at the very least they knew it was
a concentration camp. The people involved with analysis of the photos
would not see anything that would support the rumors and would
probably come to the conclusion that the whole rumor thing was absurd.
	After all, the Nuremberg trials were a big thing as they were
happening and inquiry should have gone out to those invovled with
aerial reconnaissance, or some of those involved should have
remembered seeing the photos during their analysis and reported it to
Nuremberg.
	Consider the responsible parties for reviewing the photos when
the plane returns. Did they just zip through the pile, not stopping to
figure out what the complex was?   
	The article is written by Dino A. Brugioni, who joined the CIA
and became one of the founders of National Photographic Interpretation
Center, a interagency organization responsible for U.S. imagery
analysis. 
	The article is intended to show how analysis of reconnaissance
photos can be pored over to tell a story of what is happening or what
did happen. Before going on to show what could be gleened from the
aerial photo of the camp, the copy states the photo "shows the snow
that Elie Wiesel wrote of in his book 'Night'". What they mean by
"the" snow is up for grabs. 
	Well anyway, the first paragraph of the caption winds up "The
photograph indicates that the gas chambers have been or are being
destroyed and that the evacuation of the complex had begun".
	This is the first of the only two observational and analytical
points mentioned in the caption. As stated in the initial post, this
photo shows nothing of the sort, excepting that there is no Crema IV.
	The second observation quite rightly concludes that the buildings
in the camp that have dark roofs are in use as opposed to the those
that are white from snow cover due to the buildings with dark roofs
being heated and the snow having melted.
	Of course the photo in the magazine is printed in dot matrix and
close inspection with a magnifying tool does not afford what could be
observed by studying the actual negative or photographic print.
	Obviously Mr.Brugioni and Mr. Poirier, the discoverer of the
photo in U.S. Defense Dept. archives, had that at their disposal from
which they concluded a "The Holocaust Revisited: A Retrospective
Analysis fo the Auschwitz-Birkenau Extermination Complex". (CIA file
St-79-1000)
	Not having a copy of this right now, and just by using what is
here in the magazine's dot matrix photo, many things can be deduced
that might question orthodox Holocaust accounts.
	The most obvious starting point in viewing the photo, after
noting the dark roofs and the white roofs, is the roads and/or
pathways. The avenues for traffic, either by foot or by vehicle. 
	By first establishing that the dark appearing roads and/or paths
are created by traffic when compared with other pieces of evidence in
the photo we can deduce some of the activity of the camp. One thing
that can be used for the comparison is the rail line into the camp,
which stands out as a vague whitened image of a straight line. It is
obvious the rail line was not used since the snow storm itself. Some
of the roads seem to have been plowed but have received minimum
traffic since they are still white.
	What is left are accesses that are between slightly darkened and
considerably darkened, which we can attribute the various degrees of
traffic they recieved. The slightly darkened as medium traffic, and
the very dark as heavy traffic.
	As to dark and white, the other noticable contrasts are dark
patches of random placement, which for the most part we can deduce
are trees. "Birkenau" is German for 'birch trees'.
	Once we establish and accept the darkened avenues of traffic and
the darkened patches as mostly trees we can go on to deduce some of
the activity, and non-activity, in relation to people and places.
	The most well beaten areas of traffic are concentrated in and
around Section II, the main mens block of prisoners barracks.
	The caption states that the womens "Section I" has been
evacuated, which is supported by the obvious fact the roofs are all
white and no traffic or very low traffic is noticable in or around the
section. Since photos exist that show women at the camp at the time of
liberation we can deduce that any women still there have been moved to
buildings in Section II. A sort of consolidation has taken place.
	Another area of heavy traffic is at the immediate adjacent
"Canada" section of the camp which is said to have been the holding
area of inmates belongings. The section has 27 buildings similar in
dimension to those as the barracks. Whether or not these buildings
were used exclusively to store the belongings of the inmates is
suspect. The complex is just too large to have been built just for
storing prisoner belongings. The complex of buildings is such that
there are three rows of nine buildings each separating row running
east-west away from the main living section and terminating just in
front of the bath house.
	Since one of the separations between the rows of buildings is
very dark we can deduce that considerable traffic has taken place, and
that it is the result of prisoners migrating to and from the bath
house. The bath house itself is black, suggesting it is heated and in
use. 
	It also appears that traffic has taken place off this main Canada
passage and into some of the buildings, probably to retrieve articles
>from  the buildings. It could be suggested that the prisoners or
whoever were retrieving articles that once belonged to the inmates,
but some of the traffic seems to have been focused towards certain
buildings, which would suggest they contained specific contents.
	One well beaten avenue for traffic appears to be a road that runs
east-west, more or less at the boundry of Sections II and III, the
latter being pretty much devoid of buildings that stood there at one
time. This avenue runs from the east end of the camp near the SS
Barracks to the west end, terminating near the still existing Crema V.
It is obviously more beaten at and near the immediate area of the
inmates barracks and less so near the SS barracks and the Crema V
area.
	It is clear that some traffic has taken place to the immediate
Crema V area. What this building really was is never revealed by those
who should have known (the Russians), or should know (Present day
Auschwitz administrators) but the paths could have been to retrieve
coal or something else, but not because there was a dismantling
process taking place, since the beaten path is not dark enough to
support this, including the absence of signs of piled or transported
rubble.
	Another darkened route appears to go from the Section II area
into the Section III area terminating at two of the remaining
buildings, perhaps in order to retrieve or tend to something necessary
for the camp as it was existing in its more or less dormant state.
	In fact, study of this photo indicates the camp was in a sort of
limbo. The Soviets were only a few days away, and the camp was
obviously already considerably razed, the IJ Farben works had been
bombed and so there was nothing left to tend to other than
administrating the needs of the inmates. We have to assume the
administrators and even the inmates were aware of the imminant over
taking of the camp by the advancing forces and that the only thing
that mattered at the time was the basics of life.
	The only other areas of the camp to have recieved any traffic
during the days before and during the time of the aerial photo were
those at Cream II and III.
	At the ends of Cremas II and III extensions can be seen that
extend away from the main buildings in the same axis as the long
length of the buildings. These would be what is said to have been the
underground gas chambers. In the photo, it is obvious that these
images are caused by elevations from the adjacent level. They are long
and geometrically rectangular. Going by the distinct shape of some
darker areas at some structures that match the shapes of the
structures, we conclude they are sharp shadows that would suggest that
the day the photo was taken, it was sunny, maybe bright sun, and this
is evident with the slightly elevated extensions said to be gas
chambers. The Holocaust story has it, when convenient, that the whole
process of mass extermination was designed to keep it secret, and if
these underground structures were gas chambers they would have been
built so the tops were level with the rest of the ground.   
	It is very possible these cellars were used to store food stuffs.
Especially since the camp had a agricultural program and storing
certain kinds of crops underground is a centuries old practice. Of
course food products would have been brought in from other areas. This
could account for the traffic that was taking place during the time
the aerial reconnaissance photo was taking place. Whatever, the
traffic to the two buildings has to be explained somehow, and it
wasn't from activity regarding any demolishion.
	Inspite of what the caption says, that the photo shows them in
the process of being dismantled, nothing of the kind is even remotely
evident.
	
	There is nothing in the whole photograph that could validify the
major claims of the Holocaust story. In fact there are a number of
things that could be pointed to that would tend to deny the story.
	The most obvious is the fact that the buildings said to have been
crematoriums are still in existance at the time, whereas much of the
other parts of the camp are missing that were there in other earlier
photos, which raises the question of why the Germans would have let
these buildings, that the story has as the centers of extermination
remain while they went on to to raze considerable numbers of
pre-existing components of other parts of the camp. In short, a wacky
sense of priorities if the story were true.
	In the photo, we can see 18 buildings identified as the SS
barracks, with most of the roofs darkened, meaning they were being
used, which would suggest that the occupants were committing
themselves to administrating the camp even though the advancing enemy
was only days away. The failure to flee could be taken to mean the
administrating parties were staying loyal to administrating the needs
of the camp and did not fear any history that would cause the
inevitable capturing forces to take revenge on them.
     
	The caption in the highly respected magazine, after mentioning
Anne Frank as one of previous inmates, informs the reader that when
the photo was taken, 80,000 prisoners were in the camp, that the camp
usually held 250,000 prisoners, that only 8,000 sick and emaciated
prisoners were left behind to be there when the Soviet liberators
arrived.
	The Holocaust story has it that the camp had a standard
population of 100,000. Where the author got his 250,000 figure from he
does not say. The caption says there were 1000 prisoners in each
barracks. The number of barracks in the photo, times 1000, does not
support the  high number. The number of 1000 to each barracks would
mean standing room only.
	The caption has the liberation of the camp happening on Jan. 27,
whereas other sources, such as the book, "Anatomy of the Auschwitz
Death Camp", gives the date as Jan.18. According to the book,
"Auschwitz: A History in Photographs": "In Janurary 1945 it became
clear that Soviet troops were approaching, and the Nazis hastily tried
to evacuate the camp. By the time of the last roll call, on 18
Janurary, they had moved some 60,000 prisoners out of Auschwitz and
it's sub-camps ..." So here we have the caption in the well respected
magazine telling the readers 80,000 were still there on Jan. 14,
meaning all the prisoners would have to have been moved out in the
next four days. We can take note that the caption has 80,000 still
there and the other account has it 60,000 were evacuated, leaving
20,000 people at the camp as opposed to the caption's 8,000. 
	The photo does not support the notion there were 80,000 prisoners
intered at the time it was taken. The photo suggests there was a
consolidation to a more central area. Other photos do not support the
idea that all those left behind were emaciated. It is probably correct
that many of the former inmates were transferred to camps in Germany
as the story has it, but it was a graduated process taking place over
a period of months before the photo was taken.
	As most photos in the gallery of Holocaust evidence, this photo
does more for denying the story than it does for confirming it.
	It is very interesting how this Holocaust story gets into so many
respected publications, and one might suspect this article found it's
way into the well respected Scientific American as a means of
promoting the Holocaust story more so than as a study on aerial
reconnaissance. 	
	



 We could suppose this is what took place when the CIA personel 
 analysing the photo there are number of components that are subject
to being included in the analysis.    




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 19 17:11:20 PDT 1996
Article: 44645 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No wonder we can't find the bodies
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:38:11 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <31c411e7.144782@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran
>aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:
>
>>	Here I keep seeing it said this guy Giwer is a troll and then he
>>unleashes a cornucopia, a rapid fire, a whole volley, a flood, a
>>hurricane, a 100 mega-ton series of articles that just about washes up
>>the Holocaust story. 
>
>Very interesting Li'l Tommy ... if I hadn't noticed the headers in
>this post I would have thought I was reading something from one of
>Ingrid's Z-grams!  Lots of effusion and one big lie camouflaged by
>zero substance.

	Of course, naturally, no doubt you don't care to elaborate,
right?
>
>Thanks for the example.
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 20 13:26:44 PDT 1996
Article: 44877 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A discrepency among exterminationists...
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 18:03:36 GMT
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dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:

>Heck, since Dan Keren is using retreads, I may as well do the same:

Dvd, I don't think there is any need to justify using material that
has been posted before. After all, the material is not posted out here
just to convince the usual. It should be posted for the reasons of
informing any new comers to alt.rev.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 20 19:07:33 PDT 1996
Article: 44935 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:14:37 GMT
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:16:15 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>In other words, we are supposed to believe the opinions of a lunatic
>who:
>
>1) can barely spell his own name
>2) apparently has multiple personalities all named "Moran"
>3) who examined some photographs printed in a magazine
>4) who can't even get the date of the evacuation of Auschwitz right
>
>over the expert analysis of Dino Brugioni who
>
>1) has had a long and successful career in photo analysis
>2) who examined the original photographs

	Anyone who wants to check out this photo in Scientific American
will be able to find it in almost any library.

	Maybe Mr. Morris can direct any readers to the location of the
camp kitchens and mess halls.

	I would imagine if he could have, he would have. Perhaps this is
why he had to resort to his above, which says nothing to address any
of the points raised. 

	


	 

>
>Duh.
>
>Perhaps Mr. Moran would care to demonstrate Brugioni's complete lack
>of expertise by analyzing some of the other photographs mentioned in
>the article.
>
>Yeah. Sure.
>
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 21 13:07:38 PDT 1996
Article: 45149 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: They took my spoon.
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:13:51 GMT
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	    "Proof of Suffering Is Price of Holocaust Repartations"
                     L.A. Times, June 4, 1996

(Sub header)
"Soviet Jews: Survivors tell of indelible horrors. But for many,
documenting them to qualify for aid is impossible." 

	"One can still hear the smack of the scyth smashing against her
head. Denting her skull ..." How much is that bitter taste worth?
..One can still feel the panic that swamped him as he stood in line,
waiting for the killers to get to his row. ...
	How much?
	How to quantify the indescribable? How to calculate the
unimaginable?
	How to compensate victims for the horrors of the Holocaust?
	Fifty-one years after Nazi Germany crumbled, those questions
haunt a dwindling group of Holocaust survivors.
	Most of their fellow survivors have long since received some
compensation -- not enough to erase their torment, of course, but
enough to cushion them through old age. The German government has paid
more than $60 billion to victims of the Nazis since WW II, and is
paying more than 130,000 survivors lifetime pensions--a committment
that will cost another %20 billion over the next few decades.
	...
	...More than 90,000 Soviet emigrants world wide have applied for
this last chance to receive German pensions.
	...
	Perhaps the toughest requirement demands that survivors prove
their persecution with official documents--not eyewitness
testimony--before receiving pensions.
	When the Nazis stormed through a huge swath of Soviet territory
.. they left behind detailed but disorganized records, said Radu
Iaonid, director of the registry of survivors at the Holocaust
Memorial Museum in Washington.
	The conquering soldiers might, for example, have jotted down that
they confiscated two silver teaspoons from Jew X ...
	....
	These days, negotiations have only gotten harder Jewish leaders
say. Memories of the war have faded. And Germany struggles with a
shaky economy, a disgruntled work force and unpopular cuts in social
programs. 
	...
	'The claims Conference' ... is not giving up'" 

                           ____________

	In a accompanying photograph is a Si Frumkin standing tough and
holding up his Star of David from his chain, a person who has had at
least 20 letters to the editor of the L.A. Times published, most often
justifying anything Zionist.

	The number of existing Jewish survivors is put at 130,000 which
is what remains of the "dwindling amount". Maybe we could say this is
less than half of those who said they were survivors. After all it is
50 years later and many of those must have died which would put the
number of survivors originally at over 260,000. Adding this to the
90,000 now applying we have 350,000.
	What constitutes a "survivor"? Well going by this report, anyone
having so much as a spoon confiscated is a surviving victim.
	Special note should be taken that the criteria for applying for
the money is not to be founded on "eyewitness testimony."
	It seems the German government is getting sick and tired of the
demands. And the "disgruntled" work force is not in any mood to have
their funds given over to some phony cause.
	Could it be the Jews will drive the population of Germany into
the revisionist energy? Could be. The Jews seem to always drive their
demands to a intolerable saturation point.
                             ____________	


	The focus of this article is on the Jews who have emigrated out
of the Soviet Union in the last few years. This all started after the
Jews began to assert wide scale "anti-Semitism" in that country. Of
the twelve major profiles done on individuals, not one account was
offered as to any incident they suffered, instead focusing on how
brilliant they are. As to the general accounts of the alleged
persecution, not one single account. 
	The whole thing with the flare up of the Soviet persecution began
after a number of articles, letters and columns complained of the Jews
being out populated by Arab birth rate in Israel proper.
	The whole thing was a lie.
	Hundreds of thousands of these Soviet Jewish emigres came to the
U.S. where they are now collecting U.S. pensions and saturating
convelescent facilities. 
	In a recent article in the Santa Monica daily newspaper, Outlook,
it went on about the 600 dollars a month the local population of
Soviet Jews is receiving was a hardship and not enough. The article
cited that 500 of them in the town were receiving this amount. 
	Santa Monica is a town that has hundreds of unemployed homeless
crouching for shelter in all sorts of nooks and crannies. Most of them
have to go through hell to get even a few dollars.
	The U.S. at one time refused special trading status to the 
Soviet Union founded on the allegations of anti-Semitism. While we
boycotted this nation on the grounds of the lie other nations moved in
to do trade that was denied America, the same thing that happens when
we boycott other Zionist enemies.
	Billions upon billions upon billions of the peoples hard earned
tax dollars going over this. America - Germany, nations of slaves to
lies.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 21 18:07:18 PDT 1996
Article: 45185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Birkenau kitchens and mess halls?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:26:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31cabec7.5204033@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31c6b791.1285684@news.pacificnet.net>
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>	If anyone has any information on where the Birkenau kithen(s)
>were located I would be interested in the information.  

	So far, no comment.  6/21/96

One would think the many minds out here in defense of the Holocaust
story would be able to come up with this easy information. Mr.Keren?
Mr.Morris? Mr.McVay? Mr.VanAlstine? Mr. McFee? Jamie?  
>	 
>	
>	



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 22 09:36:15 PDT 1996
Article: 45220 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:02:41 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <31cab6b8.3141710@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31c80bae.293683@news.pacificnet.net>  <31c96b0b.3962893@news.pacificnet.net> 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>> Don't you
>> realize how wimpy it is not to address the points directly with
>> information on the spot instead of referring to a "305 page - work".
>
>350.
>
>Read Gilbert, then get back to me.

	Gee, and all I ask Jamie in the last reply was, could he identify
and direct the reader to any buildings in any aerial photograph of
Birkenau as kitchen-messhall facilites.
	Jamie, when you post something out here, are you directing it
just to individuals, or are you directing it to the general reader?
	


>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
> to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 22 09:36:16 PDT 1996
Article: 45280 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:24:06 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <31c96b0b.3962893@news.pacificnet.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>:    "Allied reconnaissance in support of the bombing missions against
>: the IG Farben synthetic rubber and fuel plant in 1944 and 1945
>: sometimes inadvertantly produced images of the nearby
>: Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp."
>:    I would take special note of the word "inadvertantly". Seeing how
>: it is said that many reports were coming out of the front about this
>: camp being a center of mass extermination of Jews, we should wonder
>: why the Allies wouldn't have done an intentional focus on the camp
>: during it's reconnaissance of the immediate adjacent Farben works.
>: Inspite of any books that have been written that find the United
>: States culpable in the Holocaust story it is likely the word would
>: have been passed on to the military command responsible for the
>: reconnaissance and a aerial survey would have been included.
>
>Right, well, "in spite of any books"...
>
>What can one say?
>
>Mr. Moran, you might start with Gilbert's thorough and well-researched
>350-page work _Auschwitz and the Allies_, which gives facts on these
>things which you can only helplessly surmise about.  If you had any
>interest in learning about this subject, rather than just wagging your
>tongue for the pleasure of hearing your own voice, you would sit
>yourself down with a book or two and actually _read_ why the Allies
>weren't too concerned with the Auschwitz camps -- either photographing
>them or bombing them.
>
>:    I would say this photo was taken intentionaly in order to see if
>: there was any evidence to support the rumors [...]
>
>Yes, Mr. Moran, you would say that.  But you would be wrong, of course.
>
>And since the extent of your research so far is to have spotted one
>photograph in a recent _Scientific American_, no one will take you
>seriously.  Or at least, no more seriously than any other
>conspiracy-addled ignorant moron....
>
>: one might suspect this article found it's
>: way into the well respected Scientific American as a means of
>: promoting the Holocaust story more so than as a study on aerial
>: reconnaissance.         
>
>...case in point.

	Jamie don't you realize how wimpy it is to respond to a post by
just selecting just one component and avoiding the rest? Don't you
realize how wimpy it is not to address the points directly with
information on the spot instead of referring to a "305 page - work".

	Now Jamie, you couldn't tell the readers which building(s) in
aerial photos of Birkenau are kithen-dining facilities for the
inmates, could you? Somehow I have the feeling this is going to be
another one of those times when Jamie doesn't come back at all or
merely reiterates his usual baby talk.

	Actually it is kind of refreshing to see that the only kinds of
people the Holocaust promotional network can get to support them are
those of Jamies caliber.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 22 09:36:16 PDT 1996
Article: 45282 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IF
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:01:15 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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Message-ID: <31cbfc8b.1284585@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net
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	If an accomodation was ever given for a few characters out here
on the revisionist side and the Holocaust supporters to have a
televised debate and the Holocaust side was confronted with some of
their many evasions from alt.rev. records, they would become bumbling,
babbling blobs of jelly, shaking, rattling and rolling, with sweat
rolling down their red faces and then at a particular time stand up
and say something like 'Look we don't have to sit here and take this'
and bolt out the door.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 22 13:53:41 PDT 1996
Article: 45293 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The first "denier" was a Buchenwald inmate
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:00:01 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Jeff  writes:
>
># Note: Paul Rassinier was the "father" of revisionism, 
>
>I recall jamie McCarthy posted something about one of the
>"fathers of revisionism".
>
>This "father of revisionism" (FOR) was discussing the 
>Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. Those in Birkenau were 
>referred to as II,III,IV and V.
>
>Then, the blithering FOR imbecile said something like "but 
>whatever became of crematorium number I!? It has yet to
>be found!".
>
>He didn't even know that the gas chamber in Auschwitz I
>(main camp) was described in this numbering system as
>Krema I.

	Say professor, you wouldn't know which buildings at Birkenau were
the camp's kitchen-messhall facilities would you?


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 22 13:53:42 PDT 1996
Article: 45298 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An all Jewish memorial despite an act of Congress
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:29:04 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <31cc1aff.9080036@news.pacificnet.net>
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ruthsommer@aol.com (RuthSommer) wrote:

>
>I have not personally visited this huge Holocaust Museum in Washington DC.
>
>One part of me wants to out of curiosity, but another part is repelled by
>the very idea.
>It seems to me that these gigantic holocaust things appear to celebrate
>the Holocaust
>more as a religious event than as something historical.
>
>And it also bothers me a great deal that although the Holocaust occurred
>in Europe
>over a half-century ago, and happened to and by non-Americans, it is now
>funded by
>American taxpayers and it takes up a big amount of real estate in our
>nation's capital.
>
>What I'm trying to convey here is that the Museum is more of a religious
>monument
>than anything else, and that is a violation of Church and State, is it
>not?
>
>Comments, anyone?
>
>And how can we have this thing un-funded, and even removed from our
>capitol?

	More than a religion, the Museum is motivated as a means of
instilling guilt, and as a means of continuing support for the Jewish
state of Israel, which is a religious state, which makes a mockery of
the U.S. separation of church and state clause.
	What can you do to bring in the wrecking ball? Study up a bit on
the Holocaust/revisionist struggle and then tell your friends. One
tells another,and he or she tells another, and so on. 
	What effect does this museum have on the vistors? If you ever go
there, check out the trash cans. The museum procedure is to hand out
little card bios on alleged Holocaust victims, complete with photos.
You will have to check out the trash cans every fifteen to twenty
minutes because they are diligently emptied to keep anyone from
noticing how many of these little bios are discarded, on the spot, by
the  visitors. I personally retrieved about 20 of them from just one
browse through about a third of the cans. I was made aware of the
visitor practice after reading a complaint by a Jewish person who had
suspicions and did the check himself. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 23 08:14:31 PDT 1996
Article: 45407 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:00:38 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <31cbfc67.1247896@news.pacificnet.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31c96b0b.3962893@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>         Jamie don't you realize how wimpy it is to respond to a post by
>> just selecting just one component and avoiding the rest? Don't you
>> realize how wimpy it is not to address the points directly with
>> information on the spot instead of referring to a "305 page - work".
>
>Moran, don't you realize how wimpy it is to respond to a post by just
>selecting just one component and avoiding the rest? Don't you realize how
>wimpy it is not to address the points directly with information on the
>spot instead of referring to your fevered imagination?
>
>Case in point you have chosen to overlook the fact that I _did_ address
>your "points,"_every_ point in regards to your origional post on this
>matter. I have made explicit references to Gilbert's _Auschwitz and the
>Allies_ as well as Czech's _Auscwhitz Chronicles_ to debunk your silly
>lies. And your reasoned repsonse in addressing such facts and issues
>raised from this? 
>
>Zero. Zip. Nothing. Just more silly lies. Pot. Kettle. Black.
>
>> Now Jamie, you couldn't tell the readers which building(s) in
>> aerial photos of Birkenau are kithen-dining facilities for the
>> inmates, could you? 
>
>Now Moran, you couldn't tell the readers which building(s) in aerial
>photos of Birkenau are kithen-dining facilities for the inmates, could
>you?
>
>No? Thought not. I can though. I'll even give you a hint, Moran: It's in
>on page 5 of _Auschwitz Chronicles_.

	Now Mr. VanAlstine, you are posting this stuff out here for the
general reader I would suppose. You should be making your case in
point by posting the information right here for their ready
consideration. Aerial photos of Birkenau are quite easy to refer to.
The complex is a quite geometrically coherent pattern, with highly
distinguishable "sections". All you would have to say is something
like, the kitchen-messhall facilities are in a particular section,
north, south, east or west and the buildings look like such and such.
	Can you do it? 


>> Somehow I have the feeling this is going to be
>> another one of those times when Jamie doesn't come back at all or
>> merely reiterates his usual baby talk.
>
>Somehow I have the feeling this is going to be  another one of those times
>when Moran doesn't come back at all or merely reiterates his usual lies.
>
>>Actually it is kind of refreshing to see that the only kinds of
>>people the Holocaust promotional network can get to support them are
>>those of Jamies caliber.
>
>Actually it is kind of refreshing to see that the only kinds of people the
>Holocaust denial network can get to support them are those of Moran's
>"caliber." 
>
>Mark
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 23 08:14:32 PDT 1996
Article: 45418 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Thousands ... perhaps millions"
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:04:24 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <31cc06f7.3952018@news.pacificnet.net>
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	                  "On The Rebbe's Yahrzeit"

                      (Quarter page advertisment)
                       N.Y. Times, June 19, 1996

	"This is the recurring theme in the history of Lubaavitcher
Rebbe. A luminary in his life time, ...

	Tommorrow, the third day of the Jewish month of Tammuz marks the
second annversary of the Rebbe's passing. ...

	Today, there are 2000 Chabad-Lubavitch centers around the world,
... Thousands of men and women continue to dedicate their lives to the
lamplighters call.

	Thousands more, perhaps millions, of people have had their souls
rekindled. ..."
                         ___________________

	"Thousands ... perhaps millions"? Who knows, maybe billions,
trillions even.

	Two thousand (2000) Lubavitch centers? - "around the world"?

	When it comes to numbers, the Jews certainly take great liberty
in blurting them out.


	This ad was placed by the "Lubavitch World Headquarters", another
"World" Jewish organization, like the World Jewish Congress, or the
"World" this or that.
	For the smallest religious group in the world they certainly seem
to have the most organizations.
                         ______________

	Mentioned in the same L.A. Times article on Jews trying to
extract more $$$$$$$$$ from Germany and reported on under alt.rev
"They took my spoon" was "The Conference on Jewish Material Claims
Agaisnt Germany, a nonprofit group representing two dozen (12)
international Jewish organizations ..."
	What they mean by "non-profit" is a wonder.
                         _____________

	I would say if a survey was ever done to list all the Jewish
organizations that exist the total would approach a thousand. One
book, "American Jewish Organizations and Israel" by Lee O'Brian lists
hundreds of organizational names used by the Jews just to gain access
and influence to U.S. policies. This book was written in 1987. Since
then one can bet the Jews have dreamed up many more organizational
titles.
                         _____________

	There is an "Association of Holocaust Organizations" which list
over a hundred organizations with the Holocaust theme. Check it out on
the Net.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 23 08:14:33 PDT 1996
Article: 45443 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: How soon is soon?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:52:27 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 32
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	Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path:
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest
away
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <4eljfo$l0l@zippy.cais.net>
 <4etcb1$nje@zippy.cais.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:53:15 GMT
Lines: 26

In reply to Moran's questions:

"1) According to the original Zyklon-B patents, which Dr. Ulrich
   Roessler obtained, the release of HCN from Zyklon-B is quite
   fast. Much less than 85 percent would be left after the
   gassing process was completed. I hope to soon post the patents
   as jpeg files, which will hopefully close this idiotic dicussion
   once and for all.

   (one wonders why "revisionist scholars" have not bothered, for
   all these years, to look up these patents)."
                           ____________

   One wonders why the professor has not bothered, for all these
months, to post these patents.
   
	After all, it's been almost four months now.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 24 06:59:42 PDT 1996
Article: 45656 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!bofh.dot!vyzynz!bofh.dot!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The professor and his eyewitnesses
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:03:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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	Professor Keren, of Brown University seems to be the eyewitness
specialist out here. Seems this is all he has. Seems he believes every
word. Seems he believes even the most absurd. 
	It seems the old deleted numbers for those said to have been
killed at Auschwitz, which was 4,000,000, was based on eyewitness
testimony and the new current figure of 1,000,000 was revised by
considering anything but eyewitness testimony.
	It also seems that the conditions for any "Holocaust survivor"
Jews to receive money from Germany must be based on solid documents,
like a note that says a couple of spoons were confiscated, and
specifically stated that any claims not to be founded on any
eyewitness testimony.
	I wonder what the professor has to say about that? 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 24 16:04:27 PDT 1996
Article: 68919 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31ceb0bf.1226420@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31ceb0bf.1226420@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:50:21 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jun 24 16:04:28 PDT 1996
Article: 68920 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31ceb95c.3431384@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31ceb95c.3431384@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:00:47 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 25 14:29:33 PDT 1996
Article: 45910 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:35:27 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## The relevant parts are the parts which discuss the speed with
>## which the HCN evaporates from the Zyklon.
>##
>## How long do you claim it takes? Want to take a shot at it?
>
># I would say somewhere around two to three hours.
>
>What a surprise!
>
>Whatever happened to the much longer (alleged) evaporation rates?
>
>Your fellow "revisionist", Matt Giwer, who claims to have an
>IQ of 163 and numerous years of experience in the "real world",
>gives 32 hours for a temperature of 5C and 6 hours for 30 C.

	Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months. I
would say at least 95% of it would emit in the first two to three
hours. Whatever, ten minutes, the amount of time to exterminate, is
1/12 of the HCN. Lets recognize that in the first few minutes the rate
would be faster due to the larger surface area from which the HCN
would emminate from, and that, as time went on this would decrease and
the product would have to migrate from deeper within. Lets make the
ten minutes for extermination using 1/10 (10%) instead 1/12, giving
the Holocaust story the accomodation of the higher number. This would
mean that 90% would be left over after the intended use, which would
make Zyklon B a rediculous choice. We've been through this before,
right professor? You remember? You said it was "Moronic mathematics",
instead of coming back with a mathematical correction or denial,
inspite of repeated goading.
	This is when I realized you are corrupt. You press lies and are
consciously aware of it, or are so ethnocentrically focused that you
are insane.

>Can you two make up your minds? How dare you contradict the
>mighty Giwer? He'll start calling you a "holohugger", beware!
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 25 15:15:58 PDT 1996
Article: 23749 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New whopper of the week: Negroes invented Fire!
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:45:17 GMT
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barneyg@scrub-net.com (Foxglove) wrote:

>In article <4qlcmc$fi4@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>
>> Alexander Baron  wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <31CD1291.270C@rio.com> chuckf@rio.com "Chuck Ferree" writes:
>> 
>> >> Racist too, boy you're some fellow human being.
>> >> 
>> >> Same for you Baron, if you can prove your claim, do so, if not. I win. 
>> >> How's the Queen?
>> 
>> 
>> >Racist? I get it, if we don't believe every race has the same innate capacity
>> >for civilisation we're gonna send them to the gas chambers? Right. My remark
>> >is history, Chuck. If you have evidence of a written Negro language, please
>> >adduce it.
>> 
>> >-- 
>> >Alexander Baron
>> 
>>         And after he produces that ...  Sorry but the universe will have
>> expereineced heat death by then.  
>
>According to black revisionists, negroes invented writing. This advance in
>history occurred 8,000 years ago. A man named Waba Taku used to place
>three of his buggers on the branch of a Banyon Tree to remind his wife to
>pick bananas for his breakfast cereal as she made her way to the watering
>hole to fuck his best friend. For this and for not bringing the bananas as
>a peace offering to Waba Taku, she received her own head on a platter
>along with the three buggers, a bunch of fresh bananas, and note scribbled
>in new buggers that said, "If ya fuck and ya can't read, bitch, then get
>the fuck out of the class." Unfortunately, several chimpanzies mistook
>these words of wisdom for food and scarffed down all the buggers that Waba
>Taku wrote with. Waba was so distraught that he gave up writing. His last
>recorded words were, "If niggers can't read, why write?"
>
>-- 
>Fox Glove

I can see why use a childish alias behind your post.
>"Offering heart warming toddies for nice, furtive women..."



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 25 16:14:32 PDT 1996
Article: 45921 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:41:13 GMT
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	In the Holocaust book "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp" we
are given a photo with the caption: "Arrival and selection of
Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, 1944. Credit: Yad Vashim, Jeruselem".
	The word "selection" is Holocaust vernacular is always used to
designate those who are selected to go to the gas chamber.

	This photo shows a couple of hundred people on a landing along
side of rail tracks in the Auschwitz camp, which are seperated into
men and women.

	We are to assume from the "selection" word that either all the
women are to go off to the gas chamber but not the men, or vice versa,
when in fact the camp was segregated into mens camp and womens camp.

	The ground level platform is only a couple of hundred yards
inside of the towered entrance to the camp which is distinctly seen in
the back ground. This would mean that the newly arrived prisoners were
not unloaded in the immediate area of Cremas II and III where the
tracks terminate within the camp, another 7 or 8 hundred yards on down
the track from this photo location.

	Contrary to Holocaust facts that say the procedure took place at
night, the photo shows these people unloaded in broad daylight.

	Also obvious is the womens camp in the righthand background, with
the fence that is clearly visible just 60 or 70 feet away. We can see
right through this fence to the womens barracks, which are just
another 60 or 70 feet away. This would mean that 12,000 people a day
were unloaded in clear view of the prisoners barracks contrary to
Holocaust facts that assert the whole operation was concealed from the
rest of the camp.

	This would mean that on an average, 12,000 people a day had to
march down the 6 to 7 hundred yards to the Cremas II and III areas,
past the rest of the camp, mens on one side and womens on the other.

	This would be day after day, week after week, month after month,
12,000 people a day would parade past the rest of the camp never to
show up as new prisoners. 

	Idiotic Holocaust facts have it that Treblinka was built out in a
obscure area so as to hide the mass extermination that is alleged to
have taken place there, yet after this one was destroyed the Germans
chose Auschwitz for the new exrtermination center, right there between
two Polish towns in a camp that had 100,000 prisoners and used 1000
civilian workers from these towns.  


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 25 18:55:53 PDT 1996
Article: 45955 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:33:04 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31cec77a.7045339@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> 
>>Question:
>>	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
>>is:
>> 
>>	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?
>
>    Definitely this.
>
>>	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>>money. 


Incredible:
>
>    I suspect that there is *some* desire to instill guilt on the part of
>    *some* Jews.  To argue it is to justify Zionist policies is backwards. 
>    It presumes that maybe the Holocaust did not happen.  The world (save a
>    few lunatics) know that it did.

	"A few"? "Lunatics"? Not neo-Nazis?

> I think the idea of financial extortion
>    from the Holocaust is rather stupid.  Most all of these people would
>    much rather have their relatives back.  No amount of money can replace
>    that.  The requests for financial reparations from Germany have been
>    fairly small -

	"Requests"? "fairly small"? 50,000,000,000 dollars is small? The
people would rather have their relatives back instead of the money? 

> and in recent years have been limited to requests for
>    return of (or payment for) land taken from the Jews by the Nazis and
>    return of money and property taken from the Jews by the Nazis.  One can
>    argue whether such reparations make sense at this late date, but it is
>    simply mean to call the request extortion. 

	Extortion, Mr.Mittleman, extortion. 

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jun 25 18:55:54 PDT 1996
Article: 45958 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What is "chutzpah"?
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:42:17 GMT
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	"Chutzpah is a Jewish practice for dealing with non-Jews. It is a
major part of the upbringing process within the community, from within
the home to the synagogue.

Randon House Dictionary difines it as: "unmitigated effrontery or
impudence".

Alan Deshowitz, in his book by that name, "Chutzpah", summarizes it as
"A little boy who kills his parents and then pleads to the court for
mercy on the grounds he is an orphan".

Another way of putting it is:

        Someone putting a big spoon full of reeking doo doo up to your
mouth and telling you it's honey.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 26 07:19:13 PDT 1996
Article: 46027 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:16:35 GMT
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>
>I'll post the translation of the relevant parts early this week.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.


	"Relevant" parts? Who is going to determine which parts are
"relevant"? How do you know what's relevant?  


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jun 26 16:44:07 PDT 1996
Article: 46143 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:12:21 GMT
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31ceb2bd.1736508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> 
>> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>> ># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> >
>> >## The relevant parts are the parts which discuss the speed with
>> >## which the HCN evaporates from the Zyklon.
>> >##
>> >## How long do you claim it takes? Want to take a shot at it?
>> >
>> ># I would say somewhere around two to three hours.
>> >
>> >What a surprise!
>> >
>> >Whatever happened to the much longer (alleged) evaporation rates?
>> >
>> >Your fellow "revisionist", Matt Giwer, who claims to have an
>> >IQ of 163 and numerous years of experience in the "real world",
>> >gives 32 hours for a temperature of 5C and 6 hours for 30 C.
>> 
>> Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months. I
>> would say at least 95% of it would emit in the first two to three
>> hours. 


>And on what evidence has Moran based this on? I would ask that Moran
>please be specific and provide verifiable sources for his "maybes." 

	Typical VanAlstine. Inspite of any "maybe"s, I said
definitively, "two to three hours". This 'person' thinks he has
something. Obviously this 'person' has purposely overlooked or can't
remember from one sentence to another of what he reads when he opted
to focus on the "maybe"s. He doesn't recall that the Polish report on
cyanide traces at Auschwitz today, in Nizkor files, has a foot note
that says there are samples of Zyklon B at the Auschwitz Museum that
still give readings for HCN? From this, I could just as well have said
'maybe' 50 years. In fact, I will say 50 years.

>> Whatever, ten minutes, the amount of time to exterminate, is
>> 1/12 of the HCN. 
>
>And on what evidence has Moran based this on? I would ask that Moran
>please be specific and provide verifiable sources for his "whatevers." 

	It's the standing time said in Holocaust books for the
extermination times. Sometimes they say 15 minutes and others, 5
minutes. So in the end we are left with the typical Holocaust options,
5, 10 and/or 15 minutes, take your pick. I picked the middle. I could
have just as well picked 5 minutes, which would be 95% left over. I
could very well have picked the three hour option instead of the two
hour, which would make it 97.5% left over.
>
>> Lets recognize that in the first few minutes the rate
>> would be faster due to the larger surface area from which the HCN
>> would emminate from, and that, as time went on this would decrease and
>> the product would have to migrate from deeper within. 
>
>And on what evidence has Moran based this on? I would ask that Moran
>please be specific and provide verifiable sources for his "lets [sic]
>recognize." 

	Even when you accomodate something for the Holocaust story this
'person' can't see it.
>
>> Lets make the ten minutes for extermination using 1/10 (10%) instead
>1/12, giving the Holocaust story the accomodation of the higher number. 
>
>And on what evidence has Moran based this on? I would ask that Moran
>please be specific and provide verifiable sources for his "lets [sic]
>make." 

	Even when you accomodate something for the Holocaust story this
'person' can't see it.
>
>
>> This would  mean that 90% would be left over after the intended use,
>which would make Zyklon B a rediculous choice. 
>
>No, what this means is that Moran once more has concocted a farsical set
>of unsupported assumptions and treated them as fact. Jumping to any
>"conclusions" from such preposterous intellectual dishonesty is
>rediculous. 

	Evidentally this 'person' has nothing else.
>
>> We've been through this before, right professor? 
>
>Indeed. And you sounded like a pompus ass before too. 
>
>You remember? 
>
>Quite clearly. You were were hilariously stupid.
>
>You said it was "Moronic mathematics", instead of coming back with a
>mathematical correction or denial, inspite of repeated goading.
>
>That's because Moran, your idiocy is prima facia. No deep pondering of
>your stupidities are necessary. 

	This 'person' evidentally isn't capable of coming back with a
mathematical correction or rebutal.

>> This is when I realized you are corrupt. You press lies and are
>> consciously aware of it, or are so ethnocentrically focused that you
>> are insane.
>
>This is when Moran, after being soundly slapped down with the merest of
>efforts by his betters, must resort to ad hominem foolishness to salve his
>bruised and battered ego. 

	Yikes, after a barrage of ad hominems, this 'person' condemns
himself by the sheer fact that he complains about it, immediately
ensuing his own ad hominems no less. This 'person' is one of alt.rev.s
biggest ad hominemers on record. This 'person' is evidentally
'mentally' disturbed and can't keep track of what he writes from one
month, week, day or one sentence to another. In other words, this
'person' is beyond bonkers.



	
>
>[snip]

	"snip"?

>Mark
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 07:33:27 PDT 1996
Article: 46207 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Birkenau kitchens and mess halls?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:53:00 GMT
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justin  wrote:

>The kitchens at Birkenau were located just North to the men's housing 
>section. There were also kitchens located just West of the Women's 
>housing section There were Nine kitchens in the men's section, and three 
>in the women's section. 
>
>
Okay, thanks for the information.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 07:33:27 PDT 1996
Article: 46209 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:12:31 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>	Mr. Morris, can you e-mail me the address of this new board
>>you've been elected to so I can send them some samples of your alt.rev
>>posts so they will realize what an idiot they have chosen?
>	                                                        Thanks 
>                                                            Tom Moran
>	PS
>       After I do that, they will be looking at you sideways.

	PS 
       Can you picture it? The others when together discussing your
stuff? 'Boy did we make a mistake'. 'Wow, what are we going to do
now?' 'Do you believe it?'. 'Did you take note of the one where he
said ...'. 'God what an idiot'. 'How about the post where he says "Au
revoir, but not goodbye"'? 'Imagine, him putting our name out there
like that?'. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 07:33:28 PDT 1996
Article: 46211 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:41:39 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:


>
>    Why are we to assume this?  Could it not be that the lines in the
>    picture are *pre-selection* lines?

	"Pre-selection"? Is that what it says? "Pre-selection", is this
guy corrupt or what?
>
>>	The ground level platform is only a couple of hundred yards
>>inside of the towered entrance to the camp which is distinctly seen in
>>the back ground. This would mean that the newly arrived prisoners were
>>not unloaded in the immediate area of Cremas II and III where the
>>tracks terminate within the camp, another 7 or 8 hundred yards on down
>>the track from this photo location.
>
>    So?  And of course this assumes that they arrived on the tracks you
>    mention above.  You may recall that there was a discussion here last
>    Fall about how the rail spur was changed at some point in 1944.  Do you
>    know when this picture was taken?  Do you know that the picture
>    corresponds with a time when the rail spur was hundreds of yards away? 
>    It might, but I suspect you don't know - you are just shooting in the
>    dark.
>
	I go by what the photo shows. You can use your 'imagination'. 

>>	Contrary to Holocaust facts that say the procedure took place at
>>night, the photo shows these people unloaded in broad daylight.
>
>    What Holocaust fact way the procedure always took place at night? 
>    Citation please.  I suspect you are just making this "fact" up.

	It is mentioned in Holocaust books galore. Do I have the exact
pages right here and now? No. Do I have it in my memory? Yes. 

>
>>	Also obvious is the womens camp in the righthand background, with
>>the fence that is clearly visible just 60 or 70 feet away. We can see
>>right through this fence to the womens barracks, which are just
>>another 60 or 70 feet away. This would mean that 12,000 people a day
>>were unloaded in clear view of the prisoners barracks contrary to
>>Holocaust facts that assert the whole operation was concealed from the
>>rest of the camp.
>
>    It was the gas chambers that were concealed (and not all that
>    successfully by the way).  The selection process was not concealed.

	So 12,000 a day are "selected" right there in open view of the
thousands of camp inmates and the civilian workers, day after day,
week after week, month after month, never to show up in the camp as
prisoners?
>
>>	This would mean that on an average, 12,000 people a day had to
>>march down the 6 to 7 hundred yards to the Cremas II and III areas,
>>past the rest of the camp, mens on one side and womens on the other.
>
>    If the railroad were always in the same place and if the selection
>    process and location never varied, then maybe it would.  So?
>
>>	This would be day after day, week after week, month after month,
>>12,000 people a day would parade past the rest of the camp never to
>>show up as new prisoners. 
>
>    Ibid.
>
>>	Idiotic Holocaust facts have it that Treblinka was built out in a
>>obscure area so as to hide the mass extermination that is alleged to
>>have taken place there, yet after this one was destroyed the Germans
>>chose Auschwitz for the new exrtermination center, right there between
>>two Polish towns in a camp that had 100,000 prisoners and used 1000
>>civilian workers from these towns.  
>
>    So which "idiotic" facts are you disputing?  Are you disputing that
>    Auschwitz existed?  Are you disputing that there were deaths there? 
>    Are you disputing the railroad records counting how many arrived?  Are
>    you disputing the judgment of the Nazis for placing the camp where they
>    did?  Be specific here.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 07:33:30 PDT 1996
Article: 46278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!uunet.ca!news.uunet.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Sobran - Israel's "Amen Corner" OWNS Press, White House, Congress
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:15:56 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 73
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References: <31c5447a.67034811@news.lm.com> <4q5dbg$22h@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4q9jk1$1fq@shiva.usa.net> <4qhq7f$d4i@byatt.alaska.net> <4qn9d1$7hd@shiva.usa.net>
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>I wrote:
>
>	William F. Buckley himself openly identified Mr. Sobran as an 
>	anti-Semite after years of friendship and collaboration. 
>
>In article <4qhq7f$d4i@byatt.alaska.net>,
>Henry Ayre (henri@alaska.net) whines:
>
>	Yes, one's affiliations and loyalties are fragile and up for
>	instant review when one hobnobs with the emotionally unstable.
>
>So, Mr. Ayre thinks that William F. Buckley is "emotionally unstable!"
>It is easy for him to make such a claim as he is just as ignorant of
>psychology as he is of history.
>
>
>	Joseph Sobran's most enduring and enlightening statement will
>	certainly be, "An anti-Semite is a person hated by the Jews." 
>
>I think that when a person hates Jews, it is only fair if Jews are
>allowed to hate him back!
>
>But that does not explain why non-Jews like William Buckley agree that
>Sobran hates Jews.
>
>
>	And we always thought it was the reverse!  H. Ayre.
>
>"...we have always thought..."  Mr. Ayre's posts have always
>demonstrated that he cannot think at all!
>
>--
>Harry Katz

	William F. Buckley (Billy the Buckler) once wrote nasty things
that Pat Buchanan was "anti-Semitic". Buchanan being the one who
applied the "Amen corner" to the subject of Israel. As far as I know
Buckley never offered any proof. Does he offer any proof Sobrans is?
Can you Mr.Katz, make a case that either is "anti-Semitic"? Barring
this, we have to assume that anyone whosoever dubs someone as
"anti-Semitic" finds that to be sufficient in itself and would expect
anyone else to follow. 
	Go for it Mr. Katz. Barring that, one can only assume that you,
by your endorsement, think this is sufficient to uphold the charge and
would expect any readers to accept your endorsement. Go for it
Mr.Katz. Barring that, your the one who's guilty of something.

	Thats the way it always is. Some weak little fool who is afraid
the Jews will conspire to undo his social position buckles under and
comes out and does some bidding. I believe Sorbans wrote a piece on
his last moments as a friend of Buckley's. Buckley was a babbling
fool. Though it may not be spoken in public, I would say most in the
Fourth Estate have their secret opinion of Buckley and his bidding.
Only flaming ethnocentrics like your self, Mr.Katz, would have America
think his conclusions are an authority for good.
	
	As far as I know, Billy the Buckler never wrote anything worth a
pea value for humanity. Most of his stuff just buckles to the socially
and politically correct. I'd take Buchanan or Sorbans over Billy the
Buckler anytime. I stand with he who bucks the evil system over he who
buckles. I hate weak.

	Now go for it Mr.Katz. Prove William F. Buckley's charge, which
you endorse.

	

>
>He who deceives his neighbor would also deceive God.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 18:00:55 PDT 1996
Article: 46360 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: IF
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:47:52 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 75
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>	The gutless one here is you L'il Tommy.  You have continually 
>challenged people, but when those challenges are accepted you run and hide.  
>Prove you can do as you say, L'il Tommy, stop evading and give the American 
>Arbitration Association a  call.
>	--YFE
                        ___________________


	Alt.revisionism 5/12 under "The Holocaust Plea"
>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>  	I don't believe it. One iota. It would be fun to see the
>  idiocy of his accounting. The same goes for Mr.Edeiken who started off
>  saying he lost 136 relatives and then escalated it to 160.
> 

	Sure can L'il Tommy.  Just ask and the full list will be e-mailed
to you. 
     By the way, you are lying again.  Didn't your mother teach you
any better?

	--YFE


	Then on 5/14
>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>  
>  	Okay. But don't just send me a list of names. Anyone can do
>  that. Present some documentation. Just 68, one half of the 136, would
>  be okay. 

	I am commuting to Scranton for a trial right now.  I will provide
you with a list of the murdered this weekend.

	--YFE	

                        __________________________

	"This week end" being over a month ago.

	                   __________________________

	And then there was the time Mr.Edeiken said he found the photos
of 200,000,000trees that a Jewish 1/4 page ad in the N.Y. Times said
they had planted in Israel.
	He said a librarian in the Allentown Penn. Public Library was
holding the books for Moran.
	He refused to just give the titles, instead thinking Moran should
go to Pennsylvania to see them.
	Inquiry to the library revealed there was no librarian by the
name Mr.Edeiken gave which was "Rachelle".
	Eventually after he was confronted with this he said her name
wasn't really Rachelle.
	He still claims a Rachelle by some other name works there.
	He still refuses to give any titles to sources that would show
the Jewish ad was not a lie. 

	Mr.Edeiken is big on calling people liars.

	Mr.Edeiken challenges Moran to a court duel to prove Moran is
"anti-Semitic". He says Moran should turn himself in, when instead he
should be filing the claim himself.

	Evidentally Mr.Edeiken is mentally impaired. A raving
ethnocentric fool. Evidentally his mommy instilled a high degree of
chutzpah in Mr.Edeiken when he was a little boy, and now he is
ethnocentrically insane.

	Lets have the titles Mr.Edeiken.
     Lets have the list of the 160 relatives you say you lost in the
"Holocaust", Mr.Edeiken.

	Prove you are not a liar.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 20:58:46 PDT 1996
Article: 46373 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:03:51 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <31cd5c90.3903794@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cd17a9.63402708@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <31cd4f5c.523874@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>>
>>I have been named by the General Editors and Advisory Board of the new
>>Oxford Francis Bacon as Assistant Editor. Nothing has changed really;
>>I still have to labour in the manuscript archives of England for a
>>month. It's what I do in real life when I am not restricting the free
>>speech of pseudo-historians by daring to question their claims.
>
>	Mr. Morris, can you e-mail me the address of this new board
>you've been elected to so I can send them some samples of your alt.rev
>posts so they will realize what an idiot they have chosen?
>	                                                        Thanks 
>                                                             Tom Moran

	PS
       After I do that, they will be looking at you sideways.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 20:58:47 PDT 1996
Article: 46374 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:15:04 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <31cd5f4b.4602275@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cd17a9.63402708@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <31cd4f5c.523874@news.pacificnet.net> <31cd5c90.3903794@news.pacificnet.net> <31cd5d73.4130964@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Well so much for the "Oxford Francis Bacon". 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 20:58:48 PDT 1996
Article: 46378 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Birkenau kitchens and mess halls?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:34:14 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31cd61dc.5259837@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cabec7.5204033@news.pacificnet.net> <4qg5p8$qu9@news.enter.net> <31cbf1b4.1493821@news.eden.com> <4qie9h$6ap@texas.nwlink.com> <31cd5a2b.3290666@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>justin  wrote:
>
>>The kitchens at Birkenau were located just North to the men's housing 
>>section. There were also kitchens located just West of the Women's 
>>housing section There were Nine kitchens in the men's section, and three 
>>in the women's section. 
>>
>>
>Okay, thanks for the information.


	Now that there seems to be some co-operation in exchanging
information, maybe someone could identify the function of the two
buildings in the womens camp, that, going by the aerial view, have the
exact same design and dimension as those buildings identified as
"Crema II" and "Crema III". They are located in the middle of the
womens complex towards the north, (center right).


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 20:58:49 PDT 1996
Article: 46379 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:03:19 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31cd4ea0.335372@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>## I'll post the translation of the relevant parts early this week.
>##
>## -Danny Keren.
>
># "Relevant" parts? Who is going to determine which parts are
># "relevant"? How do you know what's relevant?
>
>The relevant parts are the parts which discuss the speed with
>which the HCN evaporates from the Zyklon.
>
>How long do you claim it takes? Want to take a shot at it?

	I would say somewhere around two to three hours.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>-- 
>In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
>suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
>in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
>to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jun 27 20:58:50 PDT 1996
Article: 46380 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:09:02 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>
>I have been named by the General Editors and Advisory Board of the new
>Oxford Francis Bacon as Assistant Editor. Nothing has changed really;
>I still have to labour in the manuscript archives of England for a
>month. It's what I do in real life when I am not restricting the free
>speech of pseudo-historians by daring to question their claims.

	Mr. Morris, can you e-mail me the address of this new board
you've been elected to so I can send them some samples of your alt.rev
posts so they will realize what an idiot they have chosen?
	                                                        Thanks 
                                                             Tom Moran


>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 07:19:11 PDT 1996
Article: 46448 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Between the lines
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:19:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 136
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	On June 14 this following account was posted on alt.revisionism. 

	
	"Southern Baptist Convention Votes to Try to Convert Jews"
                    N.Y. Times, June 14, 1996

	"The Southern Baptist Convention today adopted a resolution
calling for efforts to convert Jews.

	Early reaction to the Southern Baptist's resoultion, ...
suggested that it was certain to strain relations with Jewish groups.

	News of the resolution, and of the missionary appointment,
brought criticism in interviews with two leading Jewish specialists in
interreligious relations.

	'My reaction is this is a great setback', said Rabbi A. James
Rudin, ... American Jewish Committee.

	Rabbi Leon Klenicki, ...Anti-Defamation League, ...said he was
'very sad' about the resolution, 'Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews'.
                         ______________

	Then on June 25 accomodation was given to the perpetrator of the
hateful statement to give "clarification" to his staement, in a letter
to the editor, N.Y.Times. Again, the initial statement being:

"Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk
about a mission to the Jews".

	The "clarification" by the rabbi was:

"Writing on the Southern Baptists' planned outreach to the Jewish
community, Paul P. Baard (letter, June 18) addresses a statement I
made as reported in a June 14 news article that requires
clarification. I did not say Christians were guilty of the Holocaust.
What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times, presented
Judaism in a negative manner."

	The initial statement again was:  "Especially after the
Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the
Jews".	
	
	Then today, June 27, major accomodation on the editorial page was
given for further clarification, with the writer being identified as:
"Leonard Garment is a lawyer", under "Christian Soldiers".

	In the first paragraph he winds up "The resolution [to convert
Jews] is the latest in a centuries long line of conversion efforts is
so distasteful as to make the Baptists' action profoundly offensive."

	Garment's second paragraph recaps, in his own sleezy way what the
essence of the first offending statement said:
	"Two Jewish interfaith leaders have reacted properly. Rabbi A.
James Rubin of the American Jewish Committee was quoted as having
called the resolution a 'great set back'. Rabbi Leon Klenicki of the
ADL said it made him 'very sad', going so far as to add that  in light
of the Holocaust it would be more appropriate for the Baptists to
'talk about a mission to the Christians'. 

	The full statement again: "Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews".

	It would have only taken Garment a few more words to give the
full quote, but then his rendition ommitted the part about the
Holocaust. 

	The sleezy lawyer then continues:
	"But some reactions have been muted. Privatly, prominent Jews I
asked about the resolution said they had not thought much about it, or
that they would trust the free market in religious ideas to prevent
anything bad from happening." "Bad from happening"?

	"When I talked about the resolution with several Christians who
are friendly to Jewish concerns, they did not immediately see the
problem. They reacted to the exhortation as an expression of freedom
of speech or as a desire to share the great gift of one's faith. The
furthest thing from their minds was associating conversion with
animosity or coercive actions towards Jews. Yet historically both the
animus and the coercion have been companions of conversions." (Evil
Christian history)
 
	He soon goes onto recounting some select examples: "European
Catholicism has the Spanish Inquisition to show as an end product of
this cast of mind" and "Perhaps the most illustrative and
consequnetial conversion events involved Martin Luther, the founder of
German Protestantism." So we have the Jew making sure we get a dose of
evil Catholicism and evil "German" Protestantism.
 	He says Luther's attitude on Jews was because they refused to
convert, when in fact he had a problem with the very characteristics
of the Jewish faith itself.
	He winds up in three or four paragraphs on how these faiths of
today have made renunciations of any history they may have had,
including "Aggressive evangelism aimed at Jews may seem relatively
harmless in a society like ours, which is committed to tolerance. But
in the future, here and elsewhere, convictions about others' perceived
religious inferiority can easily turn into something ugly. We know
this from history."

	"Aggressive" evangelism? 

	Anyway, it is obvious that he is plying between the lines,
insinuating things like the Southern Baptist resolution could lead to
another progrom and reiterates the rabbi's, "Especially after the
Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the
Jews." 

	Its obvious the Jews have gotten themselves into another flurry
with stupid statements and now are out trying to undo the damage. They
just can't keep their stupid mouths shut. They have no sense of
propriety when directing their venom against the goyim host. And while
they try to undo the damage as with the two follow ups, that have
appeared in the N.Y.Times, they can't refrain from rubbing it in at
the same time.
	This idiot, Garment thinks his piece is great and will be a great
soother to the incident, yet his little referrals here and there
throughout his accomodation, the N.Y.Times has given him, are noticed.


	The Jews own insulting stupid examples show how stupid the Jews
think the goyim is.

	It also shows how readily Jews can get their crap into the U.S.
press. 

	It ain't going to last forever.  

	Imagine, a member of the 1 or 2% making a statement like,
"Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk
about a mission to the Jews" right in the middle of the 98% host.

I say "Especially after the Jews have made such a pain in the ass of
themselves, they should keep their mouths shut, before they get
themselves in any deeper.  


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 07:19:12 PDT 1996
Article: 46449 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:20:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <31d2faf4.23072179@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d030d7.1171769@news.pacificnet.net> <31d15eeb.6438747@news.pacificnet.net> <4qt7u8$ncu@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:46449 alt.conspiracy:62313

joebuck@ix.netcom.com(Charles) wrote:

>  Check this out: years ago, right after my high school graduation,
>before so many providers of mail-in or drop-off film processing were
>around, I brought the two rolls of film from my high school graduation
>to a Jewish-owned camera shop for processing.
>  When I returned to the shop on the due date, the owner of the place
>informed me, with absolutely NO sense of apology, remorse or
>disappointment, that "my film got messed up" and the pictures "didn't
>come out." 
>  NOT ONE WORD of, "I'm sorry, but this is what happened . . . " from
>the Jewish shop owner.
>  NOTHING.
>  Just what I quoted above. The shop owner didn't even offer to replace
>the film itself, which HE had "messed up" -- although the value of
>those rolls of film couldn't compare with the value of those graduation
>photos I and my family so looked forward to seeing.
>  Frankly, I was speechless -- after all, a person only experiences ONE
>high school graduation in a lifetime, and those pictures (as anyone
>knows) were irreplaceable.
>  As stunned as I was naive at the time, I walked out of the shop and
>mulled over the coldness of that shop owner. 
>  Years later, I tend to think that the film may have been deliberately
>destroyed because those rolls of film depicted my graduation ceremony,
>which clearly took place inside and outside of a Catholic Church.
>
>-- 
>"Put that coffee DOWN! Coffee's for CLOSERS only!"
>"You drove a HYUNDAI to get here tonight ... I drove an $83,000
> BMW . . .  THAT'S my name!"
>"I can speak only to a Mr. or Mrs. 'Nyborg.'" 
>        -- "Glengarry Glen Ross"


	Numerous examples have been collected that shows the Jews hate
Catholics. Most of the examples have been published right in the our
daily medias. A certain "League" has the dossier. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 18:12:14 PDT 1996
Article: 46579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The professor and his eyewitnesses
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 14:57:45 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31ceacd9.227609@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cd4e94.324057@news.pacificnet.net> <4qjsrf$f7q@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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tokrse@aol.com (TokRse) wrote:

>I know what the truth-bashers have to say.  They DENY that they ever
>claimed that 4,000,000 died at Auschwitz.  Don't you know, they ALWAYS
>claimed the number was 3,500,000 - 4,500,000 - Kogon
>or was it 1.2 million to 2.5 million- Weiss
>or was it 1 to 2.5 million -Encyclopedia Judaica
>or was it 2.5 million - yes it must have been 2.5 million - Bauer
>no no it was 2 million - Poliakoff, Dawidowicz, Gilbert and Billing 
>or was it 1 million, Hilberg and Crankshaw
>
>no no it is 1,095,190 (surprising no decimals) - Piper
>and what of Pressac?

	There are a lot more. Check out "BEHOLD THE LIE" the next time it
is posted for a more complete listing, but not the entire account by
any means.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------------------------------------------------------                   
>          "How do you think you are going to get home?                    
>        
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 18:12:15 PDT 1996
Article: 46588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The professor and his eyewitnesses
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:13:02 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <31ceaf78.898737@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Yes, but let us recall that estimates for the number of victims at
>Dresden we have seen range from 35,000 to 500,000.
>
>That's a much wider margin than for Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>
>So?
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

	But then this is not a big controversy at this time on a global
scale. And the Germans are not using it to extort money or use as
alibis for any policies - like Zionism. And the Germans don't get this
view in our American medias a thousand times a year. And then if there
are any discrepancies, you can bet no one is going to come out and
make lame excuses to defend it. No chutzpah will be used.

>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 18:12:16 PDT 1996
Article: 46590 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Au revoir, but not goodbye
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:19:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On 23 Jun 1996 19:51:36 -0400, dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:
>
>>John Morris wrote:
>
>>>a vigorous political culture in
>>>alt.revisionism.
>
>>That is one of the highest flights of fantasy that I have ever read.
>
>Irony is obviously not for everyone.

You mean to say 'sarcasm' Mr.Morris? But then you've been out here a
plenty, right? I would say your posts are the substance that would
make the "irony" true.
>
>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 20:38:56 PDT 1996
Article: 46612 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust final exam
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:55:34 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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Question:
	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
is:

	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?

	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
money. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jun 28 20:38:57 PDT 1996
Article: 46615 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: IF
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 15:41:09 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <31ceb674.2686546@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cbfc8b.1284585@news.pacificnet.net> <4qigdr$bsh@news.enter.net> <31cd51ab.1114757@news.pacificnet.net>
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>	Then on 5/14
>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  
>>  	Okay. But don't just send me a list of names. Anyone can do
>>  that. Present some documentation. Just 68, one half of the 136, would
>>  be okay. 
>
>	I am commuting to Scranton for a trial right now.  I will provide
>you with a list of the murdered this weekend.
>
>	--YFE	
>
	As a matter of thoroughness, I withdraw my accomodating demand
that you only produce 1/2 of the 136 relatives you initially said you
lost in the Holocaust and now demand the full 160 names that you
escalated it to. With some reasonable documentation.
>                        __________________________
>
>	"This week end" being over a month ago.
>
>	                   __________________________
>
>	And then there was the time Mr.Edeiken said he found the photos
>of 200,000,000trees that a Jewish 1/4 page ad in the N.Y. Times said
>they had planted in Israel.
>	He said a librarian in the Allentown Penn. Public Library was
>holding the books for Moran.
>	He refused to just give the titles, instead thinking Moran should
>go to Pennsylvania to see them.
>	Inquiry to the library revealed there was no librarian by the
>name Mr.Edeiken gave which was "Rachelle".
>	Eventually after he was confronted with this he said her name
>wasn't really Rachelle.
>	He still claims a Rachelle by some other name works there.
>	He still refuses to give any titles to sources that would show
>the Jewish ad was not a lie. 
>
>	Mr.Edeiken is big on calling people liars.
>
>	Mr.Edeiken challenges Moran to a court duel to prove Moran is
>"anti-Semitic". He says Moran should turn himself in, when instead he
>should be filing the claim himself.
>
>	Evidentally Mr.Edeiken is mentally impaired. A raving
>ethnocentric fool. Evidentally his mommy instilled a high degree of
>chutzpah in Mr.Edeiken when he was a little boy, and now he is
>ethnocentrically insane.
>
>	Lets have the titles Mr.Edeiken.
>     Lets have the list of the 160 relatives you say you lost in the
>"Holocaust", Mr.Edeiken.
>
>	Prove you are not a liar.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:09 PDT 1996
Article: 46627 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: EVIL CHRISTIAN CHILDREN
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:15:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
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	ADL rabbi said,

	 "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to
talk about a mission to the Jews".

therefore, evil little Christian children also.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:10 PDT 1996
Article: 46630 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The professor and his eyewitnesses
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:01:39 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 31
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran), notorious liar who posted forged
>testimonies to this group, wrote:
>
># It seems the old deleted numbers for those said to have been
># killed at Auschwitz, which was 4,000,000, was based on eyewitness
># testimony and the new current figure of 1,000,000 was revised by
># considering anything but eyewitness testimony.
>
>The 4 million figure was not based mainly on eyewitness testimony, 
>but on a computation of how many corpses could have been cremated 
>if the furnaces were working full time.
>
>It was an erroneous manner in which to estimate the number of
>the victims because, actually, the extermination machinery at
>Birkenau was idle at times, as a relatively small number of 
>victims were being deported to the camp.
>
>This is why Western historian, such as Reitlinger, have dismissed
>the 4 million figure long ago.

	Its always Reitlinger, out of the scores of other accounts that
mimic the 4 million. One out of scores. 'Oh, look, theres a one black
grain of sand on the beach of otherwise white grains of sand,
therefore the beach is black', right professor?
	If Reitlinger "dismissed the 4 million long ago" professor, why
did so many go on to give higher numbers over the ensuing years? Ah
yes, 'Professor Corruptus Maximus'. So much for Brown University,
submitting to 'Assertive Action' in it's choice of staff.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:11 PDT 1996
Article: 46654 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John F. Kennedy, neo-Nazi ?
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:06:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d2a3b6.738356@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> 
>>	Since there is enough and plenty of record to show that Jews
>>would have the world think Holocaust deniers are "neo-Nazis" it would
>>follow that if John F.Kennedy had written his objections about the
>>propriety of the Nuremberg trials this could put him in ranks of the
>>neo-Nazi.
>
>    1. Who has said that ALL Holocaust deniers are neo-Nazis?  I know that
>    I have posted the opposite.  In fact I said that you and Giwer were
>    examples of Holocaust dinier lunatics rather than neo-Nazis.
>
	"Lunatic" you say? LUNATIC? I kind of like that.

>    2. Why is questioning the propriety of the Nuremberg trials the same
>    thing as denying the Holocaust?
>
>    So you have two linkages to demonstrate to make your post anyting more
>    than gibberish.  (i.e. lunatic gibberish)
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:11 PDT 1996
Article: 46661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sock the goyim but not another Jew
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:46:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31d3e1a3.936910@news.pacificnet.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>  
>>  I posted this as cited from Jewish code, written I believe for the
>>  first time in the Torah. Do you have a document that shows the Xians
>>  have the same?
>
>	Are you now claiming that the Torah is *not* part of the Christian 
>religion?  Do you even know what the Torah is?
>
>	--YFE
	I always thought it was kind of interesting how Christians took
to the Torah in that it is loaded with anti-goyim racist material. One
of most repetative themes in the Torah(Old Testiment) and the New
Testiment is how it was all for Jews.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:12 PDT 1996
Article: 46662 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Odds Are
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:42:43 GMT
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree responds to the moron:
>
>As I have stated very clearly before, Moran, you are a stupid ass, 
>with your wild guesses of what happened. 

>certainly possible, but what's your point? Besides ridicule of Jews. 
>I'd like to see your old skinny ass under that kind of pressure. You 
>stick a knife in your mothers kidneys.

>Tom, you smoke them funny cigarettes? It can't be rational therefore 
>you're shooting up or something. Jeez what a dumbshit type person.
>Chuck

	This weeks funniest post.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:13 PDT 1996
Article: 46710 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Credibility of J-F Beaulieu
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:08:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:46710 soc.history.what-if:11319

Phil Edwards  wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu referred to the late Martin Broszat, author of 
>_The Hitler State_, one of the few really essential books on the 
>structure and politics of the Third Reich, as:
>
>>    a notorious anti-nazi activist
>
>No further questions.

 No further answers either. I take it you can't make comment on the
other hundred or so sentences Mr.Beaulieu has written.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 07:31:13 PDT 1996
Article: 46713 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let's Start At Square One
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:16:32 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 12
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>
>Something that would be very helpful is to start collecting all the
>eyewitness accounts to gassings at all locations.  I seem to recall there
>are maybe 200 or so, including testimony of former SS in post war trials.

	This is definitely one of the things that can kill the myth the
fastest. The inconsistencies in testimonies. Say you have 200 accounts
and there are a hundred inconsistencies - which ones are true? Theres
no way of telling. The only thing that is left is the obvious. That
many are lies.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jun 29 13:21:28 PDT 1996
Article: 46714 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:23:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 20
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	After you have witnessed a number of idiotic ethnocentric, racist
>>and hateful murmurings by rabbis, it becomes evident where the rest of
>>the Hebrew community gets their stuff. 
>
>    Hebrew community?  Is that akin to an Aryan community?  Are we now
>    naming communities after language groups?

	Jewish community - Hebrew community. Whats the difference. The
"community" is quite extensively referred to. 

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:46 PDT 1996
Article: 46832 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:55:14 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 9
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>	You forget who you're dealing with.  L'il Tommy once recounted the 
>deeds of the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan and informed his readers that it was a 
>"Jewish group."  When you routinely utilize this kind of deception and 
>misrepresentation as part of your argument -- and L'il Tommy does -- the 
>concoction of a conspiracy is not a difficult task.
>
>	--YFE
	Wherzat, Mr.Edeiken? For the 37th time.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:47 PDT 1996
Article: 46993 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:40:29 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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	Under alt.rev. post "Evil Christians" it was reported how the
Southern Baptist Conference made a resolution to convert Jews and
"Rabbi Leon Klenicki, ...Anti-Defamation League, ...said he was
'very sad' about the resolution, 'Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews'".
 

Again, here is what the rabbi said:  "Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews".

Now in a letter to the editor, N.Y.Times, 6/25/96 this is what he says
he said, under the word "clarification":

     "Baptists Are Invited To Holocaust Reckoning"

"Writing on the Southern Baptists' planned outreach to the Jewish
community, Paul P. Baard (letter, June 18) addresses a statement I
made as reported in a June 14 news article that requires
clarification. I did not say Christians were guilty of the Holocaust.
What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times, presented
Judaism in a negative manner."

Again the rabbi's statement:

"Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk
about a mission to the Jews".
	
To maintain the essence of his denial the rest of the short letter has
been omitted. Mr.Mittleman can post the remainder in an attempt to
show the rabbi isn't just holding up the spoon of chutzpah.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:48 PDT 1996
Article: 47063 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:13:57 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (borowsky) wrote:

>In article <31cec77a.7045339@news.pacificnet.net>
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> 
>>Question:
>>        The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
>>is:
>>
>>        A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?
>>
>>        B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>>money.
> 
>Q: Does revisionism always comes to this-- the idea that Jews manipulate
>history in order to manipulate the world?   As Moran's second choice implies,
>it seems to run from gnawing resentment to accusations of massive fraud.
>
	I see you have chosen "B." Interesting. You have chosen correct.
This is supported by the activities of the Jews themselves. Hundreds
of billions of dollars have been transferred to them. Not to anyone
else. They have used the money for their own little selves, no one
else. They have used the Holocaust to shame people and to justify
whatever activities they get into. You get an A for passing the final
exam.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:49 PDT 1996
Article: 47075 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:41:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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                         	NIZKOR
                      Champions against "hate".
                     
	Under "Other Sites: Anti-Racist Resources" we are presented with
a new Nizkor feature where one can click up various "resources" for
further information on fighting hate. 

	Of course the Anti Defamation League is there, and there is now a
Artist Against Racism and Anti Racist Action. This last one I believe
was reported on recently on alt.rev complete with the belacose words
by this group. Nizkor's little discription of this group includes
"Site offers some photographs of interest, including some of Canada's
Marc Lemire" with a separate sentence two spaces down, "Nizkor does
not condone or support violence". Perhaps we should let Nizkor explain
the connection.

	Then there is the clickable from the Nizkor site, "The Jewish
Defense League". This "league" is listed in FBI dossiers as a
terrorist organization, and is an admitted militant Jewish group. 
The only socially and politically correct militant group in the United
States and Canada.

	Once you enter their site, the first thing is a graphic upright
white fist on a black Star of David background.

	Under "JDL Website Highlights" there are a number of clickables
among associated text, one being:

"The Jewish Defense League publishes its official response to the
Southern Baptist Convention ..."

"Although this poem was written over 20 years ago, it is just as
relevant today. In fact, JDL leaders have chosen it as our official
response to the recent convention of the Southern Baptists."

          		"Never Again"
                 By Shmuel Ben Stern
                    
           (Edited for brevity and essence)
			
	         "The time has come for battle,        
		    ...
              No longer do we sit and wait
              And turn the other cheek,		    
		    ...
		    He smote the Egyptian dead.
              ...
		    The order that G-d gave him
		    Was to the tyrant show
		    ...
              ...
		    There are no fears of violence
		    To save another Jew
		    
		    Well, we care not for image
		    Nor for the velvet glove,
		    Our history has been bloodied
		    By acts of Christian love
              ...
		    

	Well so much for 'In your face'. The awesome 1 or 2% is ready for
"battle". The "official" JDL response.

	"The time has come for battle" 	    
 	"There are no fears for violence"
     against "acts of Christian Love".

	Ah yes, Nizkor and the JDL. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 47078 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cost of Revisionism: 2% decline in popularity
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:59:49 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <31d68814.4185175@news.pacificnet.net>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <31d52997.1673564@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>	Since a Christian believes in Jesus Christ and a Jew doesn't, it
>>is impossible to be a Jew and a Christian at the same time.
>
>Almost but not quite correct Li'l Tommy.  The primary difference
>between Christian and Jewish recognition of Jesus Christ - neither
>tradition denies that he lived - is that Christians believe that
>Christ was the messiah, and Jewish people do not.  But you are correct
>in your statement that one cannot be both Jewish and Christian
>simultaneously.  There have been, however, a number of people who -
>for a variety of reasons - have converted from Christianity to Judaism
>or vice versa.
>
>Got it now?

	No. There's nothing to get with any of your stuff. Maybe you
should expand on your 'conversion' connection.
>
>>	"Jews for Jesus" is a Jewish organization that feigns support.
>>Their literature is highly bent towards portraying Jews as superior.
>[...]
>
>But on this point you are _completely_ wrong.  " Jews for Jesus" is
>_NOT_ a Jewish organization - any more than the KKK is a Jewish
>organization.
>
>Now go back to your drawing board, Li'l Tommy.
>
>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:51 PDT 1996
Article: 47079 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:09:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31d6894c.4496929@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>
>    I am not an expert on Kahane, but I am under the impression that most
>    of the Jewish community distanced themselves from him and that in the
>    end his political party was declared illegal in Israel?  Am I correct
>    in my recollections?  Isn't this - or actions like this - very
>    different than Giwer's suggestion that Kahane was defended or supported
>    by the Jewish community?
>
>    And, Tommy, isn't the fact that there was a split over Kahane's views
>    evidence that the Jewish community is not monolithic?

	I have seen very little condemnation of the JDL. In fact I can
only remember one from about 10 years ago.
	And Mr.Mittleman, one example, if it was true, would not be
evidence to support any "Jews are divided" (common vernacular) theme.
	For every example you could present, there would be hundreds to
show otherwise.
	The Jew says one thing, but does the other, more so than anyone I
have seen. They do more talking and advertising their divisions and
benevolence than the reality shows.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 47080 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:10:52 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
> 
>Most Jews condemned Kahane's methods. (His name, by the way, was NOT Kanahe.)
> 
>Please provide evidence that "many Jews" defended him. Pleae provide the
>names of those "many" Jews.
> 
>And please, please, explain why Morris Dees should be involved?
> 
>Waiting,
>Sara

	Maybe you should show the "most Jews" condemned him.
>
>-- 
>You can't stand still on freedom's track,
>if you don't go forward, you go back.
>You can't "Giddy-up" by saying "Whoa"
>and sitting on your status quo.
>        Pins & Needles



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:53 PDT 1996
Article: 47096 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Birkenau Map w/ kitchens.jpg (0/2) Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 14:13:42 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <31cff0e4.3484826@news.pacificnet.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31cbfc67.1247896@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>> 
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Now Moran, you couldn't tell the readers which building(s) in aerial
>> >photos of Birkenau are kithen-dining facilities for the inmates, could
>> >you?
>> >
>> >No? Thought not. I can though. I'll even give you a hint, Moran: It's in
>> >on page 5 of _Auschwitz Chronicles_.
>> 
>>         Now Mr. VanAlstine, you are posting this stuff out here for the
>> general reader I would suppose. You should be making your case in
>> point by posting the information right here for their ready
>> consideration. Aerial photos of Birkenau are quite easy to refer to.
>> The complex is a quite geometrically coherent pattern, with highly
>> distinguishable "sections". All you would have to say is something
>> like, the kitchen-messhall facilities are in a particular section,
>> north, south, east or west and the buildings look like such and such.
>>         Can you do it?
>
>Yes. That's why, Moran, I referenced you to page 5 of _Auschwitz
>Chronicle_. It is a map of Birkenau that lists said facilities. But I
>doubted you'd figure that out and I was evidently correct. (A fitting
>testiment to your intellectual laziness, btw.)  As importantly, it is also
>doubtful you knew where these facilities were located yourself before
>being "coached" as to their locations by other deniers. 
>
>However, in an effort to remedy your ignorance in regards to the locations
>of the kitchen barracks in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, I've attached an image
>file of the map of Birkenau from page 5 from _Auschwitz Chronicle_. On
>this map I've colored in the kitchen barracks red for your easy
>identification of their locations. 
>
>I hope this helps you out of your geographic depravity in regards to
>Auschwitz II-Birkenau. A mind, even if it only has two neurons- such as
>yours, is a terrible thing to waste....
>
>[snip]
>
>Mark
>
	Thanks for the information. Now that is real co-operation. I'll
over look your ad hominems for comment, opting to just file them away
with the myriad of your other examples.
	Jeff had already cited there were 9 kitchens in the Birkenau mens
camp and I already figured which buildings they would be. In the photo
in Scientific America, as agreed on, the dark roofs mean they are in
use. The photo shows no more than 3 of the 9 kitchens in full use, and
3 in partial use. It appears that only four of them received any
traffic of note. According to the caption, which says 80,000 people
were still there this would mean 20,000 people per kitchen.

	Since your in the co-operation mood, maybe you could make a
little comment on the captions statement the camp held a usual
standing population of 250,000. I recall the number to be 100,000.   


>
>posted/e-mailed
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 09:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 47103 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The professor and his eyewitnesses
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 13:12:52 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 38
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># Its always Reitlinger, out of the scores of other accounts that
># mimic the 4 million.
>
>I recall Hilberg also gives the correct figure in his earlier
>works. It's not only Reitlinger. The material sent to me from
>the largest research center in Europe for the study of Nazi
>crimes, the "Institute For Contemporary History" in Munich,
>also gives the correct figure.
>
>It's not only Reiltlinger. BTW, he makes it clear that he's not only
>giving his opinion, but that it is supported by others.
>
># If Reitlinger "dismissed the 4 million long ago" professor, why
># did so many go on to give higher numbers over the ensuing years?
>
>What's "so many"? Moreover, what about the wide margins
>given for the numbers of victims of other mass murders?

	Okay, okay. Now you have cited three of the scores of others.

>
># So much for Brown University,
>
>I do not teach at Brown - never have; I was a researcher there, in
>the Division of Engineering. I am still working with people there, but
>teach at a different university, in addition to doing some consulting.

	Well so much for wherever you are.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 15:34:31 PDT 1996
Article: 47141 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 17:50:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>> Then there is the clickable from the Nizkor site, "The Jewish
>> Defense League".
>
>The Zuendelsite, IHR web site, and CODOH web site are also clickable
>from the Nizkor site.  Do you also assume that we support them as
>well?  I think you must be confused, Mr. Moran, as to the meaning of
>an "other sites" page.  Let me try to explain:  it provides links to
>other sites.
>
>Hope this helps.

	The Nizkor heading for access to the Jewish Defense League is
"Other Sites: Anti-Racist Resources".
	Any links provided by Nizkor to any revisionist pages is one of
mutual accomodation. 
	Revisionists are the adversaries of Nizkor, and the JDL is
Nizkor's ally. Nizkor does not include a link to any revisionist page
out of pure voluntary will nor would I say do any of the above that
Jamie cites. It is a sort of forced mutual agreement.
	I take Jamie's reply as a 'no comment' as to what was posted.  
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 15:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 47213 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Yet Another Ministry of Love
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:20:27 GMT
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	"New Museum Traces 2 Paths Into Jewish History in Atlanta"
                     N.Y. Times, June 30, 1996

	"Visitors standing in the high foyer of the new William Breman
Jewish Heritage Museum here have a choice. They can begin their
journey through time and history by entering a portal on the left
marked 'The Holocaust' or one on the right labeled 'Creating
Community: The Jews of Atlanta from 18945 to the Present'.
	...
	The design and rationale of the Atlanta museum is part of what
James Young, a professor of Judaic studies and English at the Univ. of
Mass. ...sees as part of an increasingly common but still
controversial effort to 'contextualize and expand Jewish history'
memorials in the U.S.
	American Jews, especially in communities with significant numbers
of survivors of the death camps ... have been moving very gingerly
over the years to broaden the Jewish identity in memorials and museums
while not losing sight of the significance of the Holocaust.
	.... That is the case in Los Angeles and San Francisco, where the
Holocaust is memorialized at one site and Jewish heritage is
celebrated at another.
	....
	'With vicariously remembered catastrophes such as the massacre of
native Americans, the enslaving of African-Americans and the
Holocaust', professor Young said, 'history can be reduced to
competeing catastrophes and that reduces its richness'.
	....
	According to projections from population surveys, ... there are
now about 75,000 Jews among the Atlanta metroplitan area's 2.4 million
people.
	....
	A significant portion of the exhibit ("right side") focuses on
the 1917 lynching of Leo Frank by an anit-Semitic mob in nearby
Marietta, where he was held after being wongly accused of rape and
murder of a young woman. 
	The Holocaust portion ... draws on the memories and videotaped
histories, photographs and artifacts of Atlantans who were surivivors
of Nazi death camps or who as children were spirited out of Germany by
family memebers who did not survive.
	There is a reproduction of the eleven foot wall of the Warsaw
ghetto and weathered slats of box cars ...
	In one hallway, leading to a wall-size color photograph of a
stretch of railroad tracks going into Birkenau ... Bolted to the
ceiling are rail tracks, seeming to reflect the tracks running up to
the Birkenau gate. They are the actual tracks and ties ..., said
Ms.Leavey, who recalled being puzzled by this part of the exhibit and
observing to Mr.Hirsch (museum architect) that it did not make sense. 
	'His response was that neither did the Holocaust'.

	Well so much for saturating the American cultural scene with
Jewish stuff. 
	And now it seems the Jews are going to want to consolidate there
cultural machinations with the Holocaust saturation.
	Before we know it there may be more Jewish museums than any that
have to do with goyims, including goyim Afro-Americans and goyim
American Indians who the Jews fiegn to support.
	Well anyway, the museum is scheduled to open in time for the
Olympics and we might expect there will be big accomodation to have
the Atlanta visitors from all over the world to go to the newest
Ministry of Love.
	"The museum, opening in time for the Summer Olympics here, will
be the site of a reception on July 28 for the Israeli Olympic team and
commemoration of the 1972 massacre at the Games in Munich when
terrorist killed 11 of the country's athletes and officials."

	One can bet this commemoration will be covered big time in the
Atlanta papers complete with between the line innuendos to hate Arabs
and Muslims.

	Ah yes, Holocaust.  A cultural Holocaust on the American mind,
that is. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jun 30 15:34:33 PDT 1996
Article: 47221 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:23:53 GMT
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On 29 Jun 1996, Danny Mittleman wrote:
	Ah yes, some inter Tom and Jerry bantor. I think these two guys,
Kelley and Mittleman post together at the same computer. They probably
think of stuff and bounce it off each other, giggling.
	I'm not sure, but I think they have some academic position, which
means, bye, bye American mind, deeper and deeper into the abyss of
mal-rationale.

	What was the original subject in this post anyway.

Oh yea, "ADL rabbi tries to weasel"

First statement, "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no
right to talk about a mission to the Jews".

Second statement, "I did not say Christians were guilty of the
Holocaust. What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times ..."

>
>Ah, but don't you see, Danny, that Mr. Moran knows that Jews only 
>_appear_ to disagree in public--really, the disagreements and debates 
>between vrious factions in organized (and disorganized!) Judaism and 
>Jewish culture are just a smoke screen for what Mr. Moran knows is the 
>real secret monolithic Jewish agenda.
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>

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