From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:50 PDT 1996 Article: 47304 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Between the lines Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:56:13 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS InternetLines: 44 Message-ID: <31d6e947.1635282@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d2f7c9.22261157@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.56 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: >On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, tom moran wrote: > >[regarding a letter to the editor by Leonard Garment]: > >> The sleezy lawyer then continues: > >> "But some reactions have been muted. Privatly, prominent Jews I >> asked about the resolution said they had not thought much about it, or >> that they would trust the free market in religious ideas to prevent >> anything bad from happening." > >[snip] > >Gee, Mr. Moran, a quick question for you: if all Jews think alike, why >would Mr. Garment include this paragraph, in which he expresses >disappointment that many "prominent Jews" were unconcerned about the >Baptist attempt to convert Jews to Christianity? A sane person might >read that and conclude that Garment is worried that other Jews disagree >with him about whether the Baptists' actions are a good idea or not. A little tacit show of the liberal nature of Jews. > >(By the way, as a Unitarian who believes that people should make their >own religious choices, I was offended by the Baptist announcement. >I get annoyed by most evangelistic religious crusaders, regardless of >their sect. And yes, that includes the Lubavitch Hassidim, who are, as >far as I know, the only "evangelistic" Jewish group. At least they don't >come knocking on your door early on a Saturday morning...) Lubavitch too? But I see you have made the other the more of the two evils, "At least they don't ...", (Lubavitch, that is). > >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." > --Mark Twain > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:51 PDT 1996 Article: 47310 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: OOH - WEE Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:28:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 105 Message-ID: <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.56 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >> >> Today I did a quick check of Nizkor, the Holocaust promotional >>page. > >> Their really hyping their practice of, more is better, more is >>proof. They know full well no one is going to access all the stuff >>they are cramming into their indexes. They are relying on people to >>look at the indexes and say, 'Gee, with all that material, the >>Holocasut story must be true. > > And what train of logic causes you to make this conclusion. Other > than: "BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!" Boy. Mr.Mittleman's veins are popping out of his words. Now Mr.Mittleman, look into the screen. You are getting sleepy. Sleepy. Moran's post is an opinion. A theory. What he thinks, personally. > >> One access will take us to "Harvard University resources" which >>brings up a listing of different camps. Just under Buchenwald, the >>camp that used to be a death camp but is no longer held as so, there >>are 150 entries. Bergen-Belsen another camp in the same standing has >>about a 100. > > Who argues that Buchenwald used to be a death camp but no longer is? Who "argues"? No one, as far as I know. > Who argues that B-B used to be a death camp but no longer is? Who "argues"? No one, as far as I know. > Where did they write their arguments? What was the basis for these > arguments? Everywhere, as far as I know. Even on the moon. > > You are just blowing smoke, Tommy. You are unable to satisfactorally > answer these questions above. Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination centers. What are you trying to say anyway? > >> Under "Jeruselem One" we are given "Since the index was last >>done, Gopher has grown by 200%". > > So? > >> "By the way: The Jeruselem One Gopher now has approx. 6,000 >>files. Since each *day* users down load/read an average of about 1400 >>- 1500 files - that means each day, a quarter of our gopher is read." > > Actually, that is probably incorrect. There is probably overlap in > what is downloaded. Funny, you aren't even sharp enough to find a real > mistake, Tommy. You are left to making up your own lame ones. > >> Ooh, wee. Now that is impressive. At least the sentence is. I >>don't know about the reality. Each "*day*". Now putting the "day" in >>between those little "* *" certainly makes one stand up and take >>notice. >> >> Maybe McVay will come out and tell what significance this >>information is supposed to accomplish. > > I don't believe the Jeruselem One Gopher is one of Mr. McVay's > projects. Am I correct? If so, why would he have anything to say > about it? > >> Just a little while ago Nizkor celebrated its Happy 100 Megabyte >>milestone. It looks like the time may come when they will being >>celebrating their Happy 100 Gigabyte moment. > > Well, that is well down the road, but I imagine it will come someday. > As more graphics are stored at Nizkor the database should gain size. "Graphics"? Where do graphics fit in? They just take up peoples time. If you use Comp U Serve it could cost you 10 dollars just waiting for them. You couldn't mean 'photographics' could you? No, that wouldn't be it. Any Holocaust photographs tend to deny the story than confirm it. Could you elaborate a bit more on these "graphics", Mr.Mittleman? > >> This would be cause to break out a whole case of champaign from >>McVay's wine cellar. "Dom Perignon - of course" according to McVay's >>personal bio of his cultural extent. > > I'd be happy with a good ale. You, Tommy, probably won't be invited to > partake. I don't partake anyway. But wait a minute. Whos going to drive McVay home after he gets done with his wine cellar? I mean that seems to be the extent of his cultural interests. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:52 PDT 1996 Article: 47324 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: flags banned by Olympic committee Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:50:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <31d6e83c.1368456@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4r6i7q$29ps@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.56 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 EEGG87A@prodigy.com (A Huber) wrote: >Date: Friday, 28-Jun-96 11:54 AM > >_GA Attorney General Speaks Against Flag Ban_ > >Georgia Attorney General Mike Bowers said yesterday (6/27/96) that an >Olympic rule that bars people from waving nauthorized banners, including >the Confederate and state flag, violates free-speech rights and should >not be enforced by police. The Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games >(ACOG), under pressure from Jewish groups, has ruled that only national >flags of participating countries are allowed at >events and people with unauthorized flags will be prevented from entering >or ejected. ACOG insists the rule does not target the Confederate flag >or the >Georgia state flag, which resembles the Confederate flag. Charles >Lunsford, spokesman for a pro-flag group said his group was offering free >legal help >to anyone barred from waving the state flag. He said "We've been >watching what ACOG has done for some time, and we find it terribly >disturbing they >would express such arrogance as to have such an event in the middle of >the South and do everything they can to hide the fact they're in the >South," Georgia state representative Tyrone Brooks said of the state >flag: "This is not an historic flag. This is a flag that was changed as >an act of defiance against school integration and voting rights for >African-Americans." We also have to consider the Jews wouldn't want anyone flying the Palestinian flag or the flag of any other Israeli enemy. > >[ANA] > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:52 PDT 1996 Article: 47337 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:10:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31d6ea6e.1930943@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net> <4r41gd$l3h@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <31d6894c.4496929@news.pacificnet.net> <30JUN199612283218@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > > So, riddle me this: How come so many Jews are world renowned figures > accepted by Jews and Gentiles alike and you are a pathetic little > creature posting anti-semitic crap on usenet from somewhere in suburban > LA? Could it be that many people - Jews and Gentiles alike - have > figured out how to cope with the world, while you have simply figured > out if reality is not to your liking simply redefine it (as above) to > make it work for you? > > Asta, Tommy. Wow such venom. Look I'm the one who's supposed to be getting mad. Remember? Chutzpah, 'Say something so outrageous that it gets your opponent mad and he can't think straight. Anyway the answer to your, whatever, is, if theres a Jew worth recognizing, Einstein say, I'll recognize him or her. If it's someone like Alan Dershowitz or Daniel Goldhagen, the only reason any goyim would look up to them is so as not to be considered an anti-Semite. One wouldn't want to show any contempt for any individual Jew in Hollywood would they? Here, see if you can make a relationship with the following names as to what we are talking about. Henry Ford Nietsche John Lennon Martin Luther Charles Dickenson William Shakespeare Thomas Edison Thats enough for the purpose. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:53 PDT 1996 Article: 47360 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"? Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:29:44 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31d15eeb.6438747@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d030d7.1171769@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: For anyone who doesn't know who Alan Dershowitz is: He is a Harvard law professor who is obsessed with Jewish things. He gets a lot of his stuff into the editorial page of the L.A.Times. One of his pieces was a call for corporal punishment for U.S. children. Coincidentally, another column was given around the same time by former N.Y. mayor Ed Koch calling for the same thing. How two idiots >from the East Coast got their columns calling for the physical abuse of U.S. children into a West Coast newspaper is revealing as to the access Jews are accomodated in U.S. medias. How is it that 100% of the calls for physically abusing U.S. children were from Jews who make up only 1 or 2% of the U.S. population. It is nothing more than their desire to instill Zionist like practices in U.S. policies in order to justify and compare U.S. policies in support for the actions of little chutzpah state of Israel. They also like to pose themselves as tough guys. A future post will report on the particulars under "Evil goyim children". Alan Dershowitz, author the book "Chutzpah" is a meazly little pervert who reeks. He couldn't throw a ball two feet. Of course when it comes to something like sports or art, its obvious chutzpah cannot make the image. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:54 PDT 1996 Article: 47361 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:32:00 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 47 Message-ID: <31d149d4.1039345@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cec77a.7045339@news.pacificnet.net> <177B0E368S86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> <31cfe5d7.655749@news.pacificnet.net> <177B1E1BFS86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (borowsky) wrote: >In article <31cfe5d7.655749@news.pacificnet.net> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > >> >>BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (borowsky) wrote: >> >>>In article <31cec77a.7045339@news.pacificnet.net> >>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >>> >>>>Question: >>>> The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story >>>>is: >>>> >>>> A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice? >>>> >>>> B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort >>>>money. >>> >>>Q: Does revisionism always comes to this-- the idea that Jews manipulate >>>history in order to manipulate the world? As Moran's second choice implies, >>>it seems to run from gnawing resentment to accusations of massive fraud. >>> >> I see you have chosen "B." Interesting. You have chosen correct. > >No, I was trying to point to the way revisionists must assume this sort of >conspiracy theory. Sorry to have confused you. > >>This is supported by the activities of the Jews themselves. Hundreds >>of billions of dollars have been transferred to them. Not to anyone >>else. They have used the money for their own little selves, no one >>else. They have used the Holocaust to shame people and to justify >>whatever activities they get into. [ . . . . ] > >In order to support your accusation you must rely on conspiracy theory. Please, >then, provide names of the architects and elaborate on the means by which Jews >have carried out what I guess you'd call "the hoax of the century". I am >especially interested how you think the hoax has been sustained-- you may want >to begin the gassings and crematoria since you contest them so often. But here >too try to keep a running amount of the number of people that would necessarily >involved in maintaining it. > > >--Bruce Borowsky > Still opting for multiple choice "B." I see. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:55 PDT 1996 Article: 47363 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:32:08 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <31d149e5.1056097@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># Under alt.rev. post "Evil Christians" it was reported > >Just remind us: the "Evil Christians" title was yours, right? Right. Now what? > > >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 09:08:55 PDT 1996 Article: 47371 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:18:54 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31d1536a.3493944@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cebd88.4499016@news.pacificnet.net> <24JUN199618385388@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31cfeae9.1953297@news.pacificnet.net> <25JUN199622315767@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > No. I just asked a simple question. Are these people in line waiting > to be selected (pre-selection line) or in line already having been > selected (post selection line.) I note that you didn't answer my > question. I apologize if I was not clear. Please put back your > original assertion (which you have clipped out) and answer it now. What I see in the photograph is men and women lined up and separated to be sent on to the respective mens and womens camp. I could be more accurate and say what I see is two lines, one of men, one of women. Thats what the photo shows. Maybe you can show where they are being "selected" for any gas chambers. > > Holocasut books *galore* say that the selection procedure always took > place at night? You have it in your memory that this is the case, but > have no books to back you up? We have a photograph right here (the one > being discussed) which purports you are wrong. So, go find citations > *galore* or retract this error. Sometimes the procedure was at night, and sometimes it wasn't, when convenient, right Mr.Mittleman? Like sometimes it was all planned to keep it secret and sometimes it wasn't, depending on what facilitates the story? > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 11:56:19 PDT 1996 Article: 69932 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!torn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31d7de2d.3030431@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31d7de2d.3030431@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:20:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31d7deac.3156649@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 11:59:55 PDT 1996 Article: 47401 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Fifty Billion Dollars Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:34:57 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 57 Message-ID: <31d149eb.1062194@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4qpqm6$cme@kryten.awinc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote: >In message ID <31cfe98f.1607709@news.pacificnet.net> replying to a message >from Danny Mittleman, Tom Moron sputtered: > >>"Requests"? "fairly small"? 50,000,000,000 dollars is small? > >And of course you can document the 50,000,000,000 dollar claim. Mr. Moron? >This is a figure that is claimed by the German authorities? You have this in >writing from a legitimate source and can cite it here for us all? > >No, of course not. It is another lie that anyone with any intelligence and >enough energy to get to even the most modest library can determine for >themselves. Even the cost of a phone call to the German authorities can refute >this one. > >I am surprised. You have 'one-upped' Austin App (well actually, more than >'one-upped' him). > >The actual sum that the Germans paid to Israel, Mr. Moron, is 735,000,000. A >far cry from your phoney fifty billion. > Excuse me, I mean 60,000,000,000 dollars, with another 20 billion dollars yet to be paid. N.Y.Times, June 4, 1996, "Proof of Suffering Is Price of Holocasut Reparations". It's interesting how Mr.Lewis uses the word "Israel", when we have been talking about "survivors", "victims", Jews, to be more precise. How is it you used the word "Israel" Mr.Lewis? Were you trying to pull a fast one? Were you trying to hoodwink the viewer, Mr.Lewis? Did you think no one would notice? Thanks for posting your sleezy response right out under a new heading, which gives your deceit a bit more exposure and the opportunity to posts the numbers. Actually Mr.Lewis, I don't know the exact amount, to the nearest billion, but as you can see, I said 50,000,000,000 dollars instead of the 60,000,000,000 dollars. I recall reading a while back the figure is more like 200,000,000,000 dollars but I opted for the lower. I'll leave the sleeze up to you Mr.Lewis. Play around with this one. As asserted by ex Secretary George Ball, in his book on Jewish intrigues and the cost to the U.S. he says it has cost us 500,000,000,000 dollars. Every dollar that went to or continues to go to Jewish causes, whatever the amount, is that much less that goes to our own needy citizens. How many schools could be built? How many hospitals. How many homes for the millions of indigents? How much of our enviroment could have been saved with that much money? For research and developement? Instead it has gone to ...? What do the Jews do with the money anyway, Mr.Lewis, do you know? > > > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 11:59:56 PDT 1996 Article: 47423 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"? Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:51:37 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc. Lines: 39 Message-ID: <31d14e23.2142239@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d030d7.1171769@news.pacificnet.net> <4qq5sn$f2v@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >> >> "Chutzpah is a Jewish practice for dealing with non-Jews. It is a >> major part of the upbringing process within the community, from within >> the home to the synagogue. > > That's a lie. You are a liar. > > > >> Alan Deshowitz, in his book by that name, "Chutzpah", summarizes it as >> "A little boy who kills his parents and then pleads to the court for >> mercy on the grounds he is an orphan". > > Dershowitz did *not* "summarize" it in that manner. I note, as well, >that you have admitted that you have not read the book you are quoting. > > > > >> Another way of putting it is: > >> Someone putting a big spoon full of reeking doo doo up to your >> mouth and telling you it's honey. > > Bullshit. You are an anti-Semite and a liar who, according to one >source that you cited in support, broadcasting "mis-information" and >"dis-information." > > Want to challenge me to prove my statements, L'il Tommy? Why should I "challenge" you? You should be just including the proof. > > --YFE From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 11:59:57 PDT 1996 Article: 47441 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Testimonial Fiction Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:18:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 707 Message-ID: <31d7d8ff.1703608@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 BEHOLD THE ABSURD kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote: 4/19/96 >Archive/File: camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka leleko.002 >Last-Modified: 1995/08/18 >Source: United States Department of Justice > > EXCERPT > From Interrogration of Defendant > >February 21, 1945. Lieutenant EPPEL', Investigator of the Fourth >Department of the "SMERSH" Directorate of Counterintelligence of the >Second Belorussian Front interrogated as defendant - > > LELEKO, Pavel Vladimirovich, born in 1922, native of the village > of Chaplinka, Chaplinka District, Nikolayev Region, Ukrainian, > citizen of the USSR. This report like all the rest lacks a certain detail that one might expect from a real hearing. This report is really an "interogation" of a person who testifies to the mass extermination of human beings at Treblinka, an alleged extermination center. It is more like some tale with a few questions inserted. A question is asked and then Leleko goes off with a extended comment and the interogator never poses any request for clarification. Even UFO story writers cover their stuff more carefully. As far as Treblinka is concerned, there is nothing to the story than "eyewitness testimony". No photographs or anything. The Treblinka chapter of the Holocaust story has it that the 40 acre camp was built one year where the Germans exterminated up to 2,000,000 the next year, demolished by the Germans the next year, and was nothing more than a tree farm a next year later. The report is titled "EXERPT - interrogation of defendant". so we know we are getting only part of the story. It took place in Feb. 1945 just a month after the Russians arrived at Auschwitz. Instead of wearing anyone out with a lot of prelude I will just post a summary of the report first that shows how absurd it really is. A full step by step composition and critique follows for anyone interested in looking into the point by point critique which highlights the points of the summary. ======= Summary Considering how this witness is called a defendant, we should wonder what kind of proceedings these were. Did the defendant have a lawyer? Who knows. Since the defendant was implicating other names in the testimony we wonder if his testimony wasn't used in any trials for those named. It would be interesting to see what these other named people testified to. Maybe Nizkor (McVay) will post them if any exists. Who knows. Maybe a Leleko never even existed. After all, the Holocaust story refers to the Soviets as liars in the matter when its convenient, such as who was responsible for the gross exaggerations of the numbers said to have been killed at Auschwitz. One of the Almanac posts by McVay, titled "Treblinka's 'new and improved' killing machine" describes a major renovation in the middle of the existing extermination process at the camp, including 10 new gas chambers, "although according to some sources the new building included only six gas chambers", and Leleko didn't mention any of it even though any dates given show he would have been there when any changes were made. Whatever, excluding any of the Almanac comment, and focusing just on this testimony our summary observations would have to recall that the "pit" which was only a bit larger than a average sized residental swimming pool could handle 1000 people at a time. That it had some kind of fire at the bottom, that burned constantly, day and night yet could be cleaned of ashes, that the people were either laid on rails over it, dumped in, rolled in or were carried down into it, that 6,000 to 8,000 people were left over each day that the pit could not accommodate, that the prisoners bound for the camp were allowed to carry knives and razors, that the system was of such a nature that the Germans had to endure total mayhem on a day by day basis and even contibuted to it, that people tore or bit ears and noses off, that after the crushing ordeal and tearing and/or biting ears and noses off the ones who survived were mostly pregnant women, that the prisoners knew about their fate, yet looked foward to the future, and that inspite of any McVay "Transcription Note" the witness claimed 2,000,000 people were killed there in one year. ============= The Full Excerpt >Question: What was the system of mass extermination of people in the >German death camp of Treblinka? > >Answer: Two to three trainloads of doomed prisoners arrived daily at >the Treblinka railroad station. Each train consisted of 60 cars. The >train was brought in three installments into the second section of the >"death camp". Twenty cars were brought in every half hour. As soon as >the cars crossed the barbed wire, the guard was changed. The policemen >escorting the train remained outside the camp and left on the >locomotive to fetch the next batch of prisoners. The railroads cards >brought into the camp were immediately unloaded by the guards. We >started to unload the cars with the help of the so-called "blue crew" >consisting of doomed prisoners wearing a blue armband on the sleeve. >Those arriving were told that they must first go to the batch house >and will then be sent further to the Ukraine. But the sight of the >camp, the enormous flaming pyre burning at one end of the camp, the >suffocating stench from decomposing bodies that spread for some 10 km >around and was particularly strong within the camp itself, made it >clear what the place really was. Okay, right here we have the statement that everyone arriving at the camp became immediately aware of what was in store for them. Notice the statement that the "enormous flaming pyre" was at one end of the camp. Treblinka is reported to have consisted of 16 hectares (about 40 acres). Another testimony on Treblinka states that all the burying, unburying, burning and reburying took place right inside this 40 acres. As we will see later on in the report, the witness claims 2,000,000 people were murdered and disposed of in just one year, which would be within the confines of the 40 acres. The witness states the smell from the raging pyre could be smelled ten kilometers away. "Ten kilometers"? >The people chased out of the cars with whips guessed immediately where >they had been brought; some attempted to climb over the barbed wire of >the fencing, got caught at it, and we opened fire on those who were >trying to escape and killed them. > We tried to quiet down the fear-crazed people with heavy clubs. > After all those who were able to walk had been unloaded, only the > ailing, the killed and the wounded remained in the railroad cars. Again, all the people were aware of what was in store for them. As we will see, this procedure was carried out 3,000 times, using just a years duration of time as a component of the ciphering, not including any other "years" the witness testified to. It seems the Germans didn't have a very good procedure for keeping the intended victims from knowing what was in store for them, and never did figure one out, having to go through this wild mayhem on a day to day basis. >These were carried by the prisoners >belonging to the "blue crew" into the so-called "infirmary", the name >given to the place where the ailing and the wounded were shot and the >dead were burned. Right here we have the statement saying this "infirmary" was a place that you entered and where the dead were burned. Try to formulate a picture of this incineration process along the way. > This place became particularly crowded when the >prisoners marked for death who were brought in the railroad cars >attempted to commit suicide. Thus, in March 1943 there arrived a train >in which half of the prisoners cut their throats and hands with >razors. Now the testimony so far says 3 trains a day arrived at the camp, each having 60 cars, and 20 cars at a time were brought up to be unloaded, which would make the total number of times this procedure would have happened in a year about 3000 times. Thus on this one occasion out of 3000 times, half the prisoners cut their own throats. Evidentally the Germans didn't search the prisoners before they were loaded on the train or they were allowed to carry razors and knives. We might assume these razors were the flip out "straight" razor types, common to the era. Are we to believe the Germans allowed hundreds of these weapons to get through, especially knowing what kind of place the prisoners were going? Was this the only trainload that had possession of all these knives and razors? The testimony that these people killed themselves before they even got off the train would indicate they knew what was in store for them even before unloading. > While unloading was going on, the prisoners cut themselves >with knives and razors before the eyes of us, the policement, saying: >"anyhow you will kill us". The majority of those who did not die of >self-inflicted wounds were shot. After the unloading, all those who >could stand on their feet were chased toward the undressing place. >There the wormen were separated from the men and pushed into a special >barrack, while the men were told to undress right there outside >another barrack. During the first years of the existence of the camp, >women and men undressed together in the same barrack, The Holocaust story has it that Treblinka was in operation for only a year yet here we have the testimony, "During the first years of the existance of the camp ...". Evidentally this testimony wasn't synchronized with other accounts that had to have the process of the camp last only one year. > But it happened >once that the prisoners attacked the "chief of the working crew" in >the undressing barrack. Somehow the man managed to escape from there. >Several policemen and Germans immediately rushed in. One of the >Germans started firing into the crowd from his sub-machine gun. After >they had stopped shooting, the Germans and the policemen started to >beat with clubs and whips those who survivied. After this incident, >men were assigned a special place in the open air in which to >undress, by the barrack, across from the women's undressing place. >Pushed by the clubs of the Germans and the policemen, the men threw >off their clothing, having first handed their valuables and money to a >special "cashier's office". The women were obliged to remove their >shoes before entering the undressingplace. They were forced to remove >all their clothing under the supervision of German policemen and >prisoners of the so-called "red crew". Those who resisted were >whipped. Here we have the first accounts of the brutal sadistic nature of the Germans. >Very often the Germans and the policemen tore off and cut off the >clothing of those who did not want to undress or undressed too slowly. >Many women begged to be allowed to keep at least some clothing on >their persons, but the German, smiling cynically, ordered them to >undress "to the end". The policemen or the workers threw to the ground >and undressed who refused to do so. The undressed women were told to >hand over all their valuables and money to the "cashier's office". >After this the women were driven in groups to another part of the >barrack, where 50 prisoners - "hairdressers" were working. The women >sat on a long bench and the "hairdressers" cut off their hair. The cut >hair were packed in large bags and sent by trainloads to Germany. One >of the Germans told me that in Germany they are used to fill >mattresses, also for soft upholstery. He said that this hair make very >good mattresses and the Germans buy them willingly. The hair was bagged and sent to Germany to be made into mattresses and upholstery. This is in the same ilk as the now defunct soap story which was well publicized in the early years after the war. We could take special note of the attack on the German people in general with "He said that this hair make very good mattresses and the Germans buy them willingly". "Willingly" to imply they knew what they were buying. >good mattresses and the Germans buy them willingly. >After their hair was cut the women were sent in batches to the third >section of the camp, to the "bath house", but in reality to the gas >chamber to be exterminated there. > >Before entering the gas chamber building they passed along a long path >bordered on both sides with a high fence made of barbed wire and >branches. Along the edge of the path stood policemen and Germans. Each >one held a whip or a club. I stood repeatedly on the edge of this path >with other policemen and drove along with a whip the women and the men >into the gas chamber building. Many women were not quite sure that >they would now be exterminated and in order to have some means of >subsistence in the future, they hid some valuables on their persons. All of a sudden the prisoners, who in the immediate previous testimony were all supposed to know they were going to die, hid their valuables so they would "have some subsistence in the future". "Future"? >To prevent this, the Germans placed special controllers in the center >of the path. When they noticed that a woman walked along the path >holding her legs close together, she was stopped at once and cynically >examined, and if anything was found on her, she was beaten almost to >death. The men walked more quietly down this path. Several times I >heard how one, speaking to another, asked: "Why are you weeping? Do >you believe you can arouse compassion in these Germans?" Frequently we >could hear cries of "Hail Stalin!", "Hail the Red Army!" To us Russian >guards, they said: "Today you exterminate us, and tomorrow the Germans >will be killing you". > >When the procession of doomed people approached the gas chamber >building, MARCHENKO and Nikolay, the motorists of the gas chambers >shouted: "Walk faster, or the water will become cold!" Each group of >women or men was pushed from behind by some German and very frequently >by Franz, the camp commander himself, escorted by dogs. As they >approached the gas chambers, the people started to recoil in horror, >sometimes they tried to retrace their steps. Then whips and clubs were >used. Franz immediately ordered his dog to attack the naken people. >Each trained for this, it grabbed them by their genitals. Okay, more stories of German brutality. >Aside from the motor operators who had dogs with them, there were five >or six Germans near the gas chambers. With whips and clubs they chased >people into the passage of the gas chamber building and then into the >gas chambers. The Germans and the motor operators then competed as to >atrocities with regard to the people to be killed. MARCHENKO for >instance, had a sword with which he mutilated people. He cut off the >breasts of women. Can you picture it. As the Germans and the Russian motorman were herding the people into the gas chamber they took time to hack a few in front of the others. Evidentally the Germans didn't worry about this causing any panic among the rest, all this happening again and again during the 3000+ times the procedure took place. Can you picture it? Womens breasts laying around on the ground. What happened then? Did they just file the people into the chambers over the cut off breasts or did someone have to go around and pick them up? Did they put the mutilated body parts in containers and then take them over to the cremation along with the rest of the bodies? >When the chamber was filled to capacity, the Germans or the motorists >came to the door and started beating up the naked people with a rubber >whip and at the same time set their dogs against them. The prisoners >shrank away into the depth of the chamber yielding place to more >prisoners. > Such a pressing-in occurred several times so that some 700 >to 800 people could be crowded into the not-so-large chambers. When >the chambers were filled to the very limit, the Germans started to >throw in the children left by the women either in the undressing place >or more frequently outside the gas chamber building. As the ceiling of >the gas chambers was very low, the children thrown into the chamber >hit the ceiling and then, disfigured, sometimes with broken heads, >fell on the heads of the prisoners. We will recognize by the end of what is given, we can not get a picture of this chamber in our heads or the size of the door. But according to a previous post by McVay "Holocaust Almanac: The Killing Begins" posted 10/23/95, the doors would have been barely three feet across by 5 feet high. This Leleko testimony says kids were thrown in over the heads of those in the chamber. The ceiling is said to have been very low. An average ceiling is about 8 feet, but this one was very low. Seven feet? Six feet? Now how far could someone throw a child in under the circumstances described? The people were densed packed in, so they must have been right at the door way too. How did the Germans contain this situation while throwing in the children through a 3 foot by 5 foot door with very little head room as the space that the children were thrown? According to the other mentioned testimony, fake shower heads were installed which one might think even put more of a problem of throwing in babies over the heads of the dense packed people. Whatever, the McVay Almanac account says "There had been instances in the old chambers in which little children had not been asphyxiated because gas rose to the ceiling". This seems thoroughly contradictory to this Leleko testimony, or vice versa. >When loading of the chambers was completed, they were sealed off by >hermetically closing doors. On the one hand the witness says a chamber was loaded with 800 people and the another post by McVay from the Almanac says 600. >Motorists MARCHENKO and Nikolay started >the motors. The gas produced went through the pipes into the chambers. >The process of suffocation began. This person is under the opinion that the extermination process was by suffocation and not the result of being poisoned with carbon monoxide. In the other testimony mentioned, it says the gas was introduced through the piping to the showerheads, a story that was applied at on time to tales of Auschwitz, and other camps now revised as having never been extermination camps in the first place. > Some time after the motor had been >started, the motorists looked into the chambers through special >observation portholes situated near each door, in order to determine >how the process of extermination was going on. When asked what they >saw, the motorists answered that the people were writhing, crushing >each other. I also tried to look through the porthole, but for some >reason could see nothing. He looked in but couldn't see anything? Was this only once out of all the time he was there, or did he attempt it numerous times? The motorman didn't seem to have any problem looking inside, even though he should have, since the Almanac says there were no lights at all inside the chamber. >Gradually the noise in the chambers died >down. Some fifteen minutes later the motors were stopped and there was >an unusual silence. > >While extermination of this batch of prisoners went on, a new batch of >condemned people arrived into the camp. The entire process started all >over again. > >Question: What was done with the bodies of the prisoners? So we can see from this question the interogators weren't concerned with or didn't formulate any questions while listening to the witness. >Answer: When the process of extermination by gasses was completed, the >outer doors of the chambers were opened. The disfigured, bitten >prisoners, with torn-off noses and ears lay on top of each other in >the most varied postures. Suddenly "outer doors". Actually going by the description of how the Germans made a number of whippings to get more and more people into the chambers, "800 in a not too large of a chamber" we wonder how they would have room to "writher and crush" each other. They should all have died standing up. What happened inside the chambers? The prisoners "tore off" their own noses and ears or they tore each others noses and ears off? How did they do this in a tight dense pack situation like the one thus described? How does one tear off noses and ears? Maybe it means the victims bit each others ears and noses off. This didn't seem to be the case in the tales of Auschwitz. Perhaps Holocaust defenders would say it because they were gassed with carbon momoxide. Yet carbon monoxide is a very sutble gas. Many people have died from just being in the same room with some brickettes, trying to keep warm. They die in their sleep. And of course many people have committed suicide by sitting in their car with a hose running from the tail pipe through a window. Are these all reported to have died in a writhering agony? >Several hundred prisoners destined for death and belonging to the >"working crews" were chased to the gas chamber building and they >started to unload the chambers. Several hundred were involved in unloading the chambers. > In order to facilitate the removal of >the dead bodies from the chambers, streams of water were poured over >them. The bodies were laid on stretchers. An especially assigned man >with pincers stood right there and opened the dead mouths. If he found >any gold teeth he yanked them out with his pincers. The bodies were >carried on stretchers to the special furnace about which I have >testified earlier. Here we have it one guy, "An especially assigned man" standing "right there" to pull the teeth as the hundreds of workers filed up to and away from the chamber. We can imagine the process would be quite confusing, what with all the bodies crammed in, the workers lined up to get the bodies, stopping to have the teeth pulled out of the body they were carrying, filing past each other back and forth over the path as they retrieved and carried away back to be cremated. All this with body parts laying around on the ground? > On the way there, under the effect of the fresh >air, some of the killed, especially pregnant women, began to revive, >to groan. After the massive crushing into the chamber(s), there to wait 15 minutes while the gas was introduced and people were writhering in the dense pack situation, tearing and/or biting noses and ears off, it turns out the ones that survived were mostly pregnant women. > We the policemen, shot them on the spot and I had to shoot >them too. The bodies were laid on the rails of the incinerator where >the fire burned already. Some 800-1000 bodies were laid on the >incinerator at one time. Take note of these mentioned "rails". Were they over some kind of pit? Maybe we'll find out down the road. We can hold onto the "800 to 1,000 bodies" for future comment. > They continued to burn for some five hours. Amid this testimony it is said that a new batch was brought in every half hour, that there were 2 to 3 trains a day coming in, each one holding 3,500 to 4,000 people. Lets take the 3,500, giving the Holocaust story the benefits of the lower numbers. This would be rounded off, 10,000 people a day. Giving the Holocaust story the benefit of the two numbers we can say 1000 people were cremated every 6 hours, giving time for loading the bodies and recovering any ashes. This would come out to roughly 4 loads a day, 1000 people per load, 4,000 a day, leaving 6,000 left over, daily. Not giving the Holocaust story any accomodation in the numbers the number of people left over beyond the system's capacity would be 8,000. >This incinerator functioned ceaselessly day and night. After the >bodies had been burned, the prisoners belonging to the "working crews" >passed the ashes and remains of the bodies through a sieve. Now this conveniently accounts for why there has never been any evidence found that would support the story of millions being killed. > The parts >of the body that had burned but had preserved their natural shape were >put into a special mortar and pounded into flour. This was done in >order to hide the traces of the crimes committed. Later on the ashes >were buried in deep pits. > >During the first year of the existence of the "death camp", the bodies >of the dead people were not burned but were buried. We can see the statement says the bodies were buried whole in the first year, so this would do away with anyone trying to say the 6,000 to 8,000 left over bodies on a day by day occurance were not taken to other areas to be burned, buried or whatever. The next statement reiterates this. > Starting in 1943, >after the incinerator was built, the pits with the bodies buried in >them were opened up and the content burned. The story having the bodies dug up, burned and reburied would seem to explain why no evidence of such a vast undertaking exists. But this is not the case. The vast amount of ashes in the disrupted regolithic sequence of the soil would be subject to investigation and determination by soil analysis and comparison with adjacent land, even unto today. Especially since the whole thing was said to have taken place within 40 acres of land, making location of the graves sites easy, if any existed. It should be recalled that this interogation was supplied by the Soviets, who never did one single forensic test or probe to verify any of the allegations or testimony they presented. > All this work was done by >the prisoners waiting to die under the supervision of the Germans and >of us, the policemen. > >Question: What was the purpose of the so-called "infirmary"? > >Answer: The Germans gave the name of "infirmary" to that place in the >death camp where the sick and wounded prisoners were killed. The >"infirmary" covered a small area, in the center of which there was a >large pit six to eight meters in diameter and three meters deep. At >its bottom there always burned a fire into which the bodies were >thrown. Okay. The "infirmary" has been identified again as the place where the cremations took place. No other place is mentioned. Here we are given further details as to the fire pit (incineration facility). It was about 7 meters (21 feet) across and three meters (9 feet) deep. Just a little bigger than the area size of a average residential swimming pool. > The entire area of the "infirmary" was surrounded by a large >fence of barbed wire and branches. To the side of the fire, around the >corner of the fence, there was a sentry hut in which those who worked >in the "infirmary" rested and warmed themselves. Those included MATUS, >the German unterscharfu"hrer, whom we called the "doctor", the >policeman-guard and five prisoners from the "working crew". On their >sleeves they wore white bands with a red cross. When the trains >carrying the doomed prisoners came in, all those who could not move, >the ailing and the wounded were carried or assisted to the sentry hut >in the "infirmary" by the prisoners belonging to the working crews. >There the "infirmary attendants" quickly undressed them, brought them >to the fire in groups of several and sat them on the ground. MATUS >then approached them from behind and shot them one after the other >either with his pistol, his submachine gun or his rifle. Of course a little more about German brutality. > The dead rolled to the bottom of the pit to the fire. Okay, the dead "rolled" to the bottom of the pit, which would indicate it was sort of bowl shaped. To the "bottom" of the pit and thus to the "fire"? What kind of fire? Some logs burning at the bottom? A grate over burners fed by gas or oil? What happened to the "rails" that he said they laid the bodies on? Who knows? Will we find out the answer to all this by the end of this report? No. > We the guards who were on >duty in the "infirmary" also took part in the shooting. When all the >wounded and the sick had been killed, the "infirmary attendants" went >down into the pit and threw the dead into the fire. Wait a minute. The workers went down into the pit to throw the dead into the fires? But what about the "rails" or rolling the bodies down? > At least 100 >prisoners were shot daily in the "infirmary". It happened once that >among the ailing in an incoming train there were the father and mother >of one of the prisoners destined to die and belonging to a "working >crew". Pushed by policemen, he carried his father to the "infirmary" >to be shot. In the "infirmary", near the sentry hut, he and his father >fell to the ground. MATUS threw himself at him with a whip. He then >ran to the train and soon returned carrying his mother. After this he >became insane. The German shot him and then killed the father and the >mother. A special personal detail. > >Question: What were the "working crews" of the "death camp"? How were >they assembled? > >Answer: As I have already testified, the servicing of the "death camp" >was carried out by special crews composed of those who had been >brought in for extermination. They camp comprised several "working >crews", such as the "blue" working crew which unloaded the trains, the >"red" working crew which serviced the undressing places, the "black" >working crew which destroyed the bodies. There was also a special crew >that sorted out the belongings of the killed. Altogether the crews >numbered up to 1,500 persons. They also included some 15 women who did >the washing of clothes. Selection into the working crew took place >according to the need for their services - from among the prisoners >brought to the camp to be exterminated. Until the end of 1942 the >working crews were assembled every two-three days and correspondingly, >every two-three days they were all exterminated in the "infirmary". Every three days the Germans exterminated 1,500 workers, in the infirmary? Considering Leleko's previous statement "The "infirmary" covered a small area ..." we might get the idea this would be a bit chaotic. >Their extermination was conducted in the following manner. After work, >around 10-11 p.m., a working crew of some 100-200 people was brought >to the "infirmary". They were then taken into the place in batches of >five and shot there by the policemen and the Germans. Those belonging >to the working crews and who happened to be then near the barbed wire >fencing in the "infirmary" could hear how their comrades were being >killed and waited for their own death. Within one and one half or two >hours hundreds of people had been shot and were burning on the fire. >Working crews were also exterminated for having done something that >displeased the Germans. The former workers were taken into the infirmary 5 at a time. Okay. At least we don't have to struggle trying to conceive a picture of them being in there all at once. But hold it. There were 1,500 all together that were exterminated 5 at a time which would mean the procedure would have had to repeat itself 300 times, taking place during a time span of "one to one and a half to two hours", which would come out to one batch every 20 seconds for a one and a half hour duration. This must have been quite a scene, what with the other bodies being brought in to the infirmary from the gas chambers. Why did the Germans bring in the workers 5 at a time? The witness doesn't say. >In September 1942, soon after I entered the "death camp" as they were >laying down bodies for burial in the large pits, the workers killed a >German who had shown particularly savage cruelty toward the prisoners. More German brutality. >Immediately the entire crew, numbering some 250 people, were grouped >at the bottom of the pit together with the bodies that they had not >yet had time to bury. The workers were executed right there over the >bodies of the dead prisoners. One after the other they were brought to >the end of the pit, laid on the dead bodies and their heads were cut >off or split up with an axe or wooden mallet. All 250 were killed in >this way. > >A similar case occurred soon after in the first section of the "death >camp". > > During the evening inspection, a German conducting the >inspection, displeased with the workers because their answers were not >clear enough, started to beat them in turn and during this incident, >one of the workers hit him with a knife. The entire crew was >immediately surrounded by Germans and policemen. Every fifth worker >was killed with axes in full view of the entire assembly. Over 50 >persons were thus hacked down. More German brutality. >It happened that the Germans learned that several among the working >crews were preparing a riot. These people, they were found to be ten >of them, were seized and hung by their feet. They suffered for five >hours and after they were dead they still hung on posts for three days >in the middle of the camp. It was enough for a worker not to look >pleasantly enough at a German, not to greet him, to be immediately >killed. Nevertheless, goaded on with whips and bullets, they went to >their death, led their kin, their relations to be shot, did everything >they were ordered to do. The Germans not only exterminated them, but >also used them for their own amusement. They forced them to stage >comical plays, they organized a large orchestra composed of prisoners >waiting to die, which played every day some light music under the >windows of the camp commander. They also staged amusements of a >different sort. One day the commander declared that he wanted to be >the guest at a wedding among the doomed prisoners. Right away a young >woman was picked out among the laundry women and a groom was found >among the workers. Both were dressed in appropriate fashion and >ordered to go through the complete wedding ritual. The "newlyweds" >were given a separate room. On the second day the commander of the >camp declared that the newlyweds must of necessity leave for a >"honeymoon trip". Escorted by the guards and the Germans and also the >workers, the "groom" and the "bride" were brought to the "infirmary" >and shot and then thrown into the fire. Meanwhile the Germans ordered >the workers to shout "Happy Voyage"! and "See you soon!" > >Question: Name the figure for the number of people exterminated in the >Treblinka death camp? > >Answer: During my stay in the "death camp", i.e. during the period >from September 1942 to September 1943, no less than two million were >exterminated there. Every day, with rare interruptions, two-three >trainloads arrived to the camp, each one bringing in some 3,500-4,000 >doomed prisoners. On the average six to eight thousand were >exterminated daily. How many were exterminated in this camp during its >entire existence I do not know. [Transciption note: using this >man's own figures, the figure of two million cannot be supported - his >figures suggest 1.2 to 1.4 million, or about double the generally >accepted death toll for Treblinka. knm. Aug. 5, 1994] Heres one of McVay's "Transcription Notes". McVay is pointing out the witnesses claim of two million as opposed to his statement of 4,000 a day, times the year, 365 days, 1,400,000. Which figure, 1.2 million or 1.4 million is double the "generally accepted" death toll, McVay doesn't say. The one figure floating around is 900,000. Half of 1.2 million would be 600,000 and for 1.4 million 700,000. What should one make out of this testimony. Is the witness prone to exaggeration or even downright lieing? McVay doesn't seem to have a transcription comment on this. Oh well, 2,000,000 isn't to far from 600,000, 700,000 or 900,000, the Leleko figures being just two to three times the Holocaust story's figures, which conforms to the general standard for Holocaust figures. >Question: What was the nationality of those who were exterminated? > >Answer: The crushing majority were of Jewish nationality. They were >brought to the "death camp" from Germany, Poland, Bulgaria and France. But of course. The Holocaust story is 99.999% a Jewish story. >Possibly from other countries also, but of this I do not know. Aside >from Jews, several hundred Gypsies and Poles were exterminated there. Okay 600,000, 700,000, 900,000 or 2,000,000 minus several hundred gives us more of a perspective on what Leleko means by a "crushing majority" were Jewish. > >This testimony has been written down from my words correctly, has been >read by me (signature) LELEKO >Interrogation made by: Investigator of the Fourth Department of the >SMERCH Directorate of Counterintelligence of the Second Belorussian >Front, Lietenant (signature) EPPEL' > >The Excerpt is true: First Deputy Procurator of the Crimean Region, >Senior Councillor of Justice. (KUPTSOV) >The Nizkor Project (Canada) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Anonymous ftp: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? > European mirror: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/ >Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!) From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 15:10:30 PDT 1996 Article: 47475 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:55:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 175 Message-ID: <31d7d8d0.1657032@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Behold the lie, tell your friends. For those who are new to investigating whether or not the Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves. A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced. After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism" those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of 1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace, style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center. -------- "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million. Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust are much lower than previously thought?" *("well over" meaning 4 million) The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an "invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R., "to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims". Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic. "The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures." --------- Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall 6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000 down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader. Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz dead at about 2,300,000. "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_. Chicago: World Book, 1980. 2,500,000 Billig, Joseph. _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du Reich hitlerien_. Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973. pp 101-102. 2,000,000 Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974. p 855. 1,000,000 to 2,500,000 Friedman, Filip. _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_. Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich. London: The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 Kamenetksy, Ihor. _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_. New Haven: College and University Press, 1961. p174 2,500,000 Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_. Berlin, 1974, 157. 3,500,000 to 4,500,000 Wellers, Georges. "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 1,600,000 Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Czech, D. "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte," in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Konzentrationslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof. _Resistance in the Nazi concentration camps, 1933-1945_. Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982, 44. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Madajczyk, Czeslaw. _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce; okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_. Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe, 1970, 293-94. 2,800,000 to 4,000,000 _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator encyklopedyczny_. Warsaw: Panst. Wydaw. Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Nora Levin's "The Holocaust", 2,000,000 to 2,300,000 Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991 Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000 ------- So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000 Jews. This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews, to see how wide spread the figures are. Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are committing a lie. In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the record straight? It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were. Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz? How many do you think were Jewish? The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000 or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later. WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed "anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis". From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 15:10:31 PDT 1996 Article: 47480 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: flags banned by Olympic committee Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:45:33 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31d7d4df.647895@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4r6i7q$29ps@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <31d6e83c.1368456@news.pacificnet.net> <4r7gb7$8di@Networking.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >> We also have to consider the Jews wouldn't want anyone flying the >>Palestinian flag or the flag of any other Israeli enemy. > >Sorry. The Palestinian Authority, which, sorry again, is at peace with >Israel now, is sending a delegation to the Olympics, and will fly their >flag unhindered by ZOG. In fact, I doubt there will be any substantial >protests regarding the Palestinians at the Olympics at all. The official >abbreviation for the Palestinian team is PLE (Israel is ISR). > >It must really suck being an antisemite in a world increasingly at peace. >You can't even count on Israelis and Palestinians to hate each other >anymore. (Not all of them, at least.) This "peace" you talk about, is this one that was voted on by the people of Israel and their amen corner here in the U.S., the one where the new elected Prime Minister was voted in who ran on the platform of defying U.N. Resolutions, no Palestinian State, no compromise on Jeruselem, no compromise on the Golan Heights, the one that caused the full Arab world to meet in Cairo to discuss the intransience of Israel - is this the "peace" your talking about? > >Related story about a runner on the Palestinian team at >http://www.usatoday.com/olympics/odxg011.htm > >-rich > http://www.c2.org/~rich/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 15:10:32 PDT 1996 Article: 47481 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust "Museum of Tolerance" Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:54:04 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <31d7d83b.1508240@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 This is the name of the Holocaust museum in Los Angeles, California, formerly known as the "The Simon Wiesenthal Museum", or something like that. The unwritten but expressed motto of the "Museum of Tolerance" is: 'The members of the Museum of Tolerance do not tolerate any opposition to the contents and conclusions of the Museum of Tolerance'. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 17:50:46 PDT 1996 Article: 47506 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: "Remember the Children" Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:54:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 "Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It is displayed on the inside and on the outside. This motto "Remember the Children" definetly does not apply to the Palestinian children who have their houses blown up or are barred >from medical treatment, have their food supply threatened, their schools shut down and have been mowed down by bullets, all by the will and by the tolerance of the Jewish state of Israel, which itself is the child of the Holocaust story. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 17:50:46 PDT 1996 Article: 47516 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 22:11:11 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31d84c16.925541@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d678b9.254137@news.pacificnet.net> <31d6baab.17135776@news.pacificnet.net> <4r6h48$3ri@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <31d7d35c.261223@news.pacificnet.net> <4r99if$1ct@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-7.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote: >In article <31d7d35c.261223@news.pacificnet.net>, >tom moran wrote: >>rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote: >> >>>The JDL is no ally of mine. >>>What does this thread have to do with the historicity of the holocaust? >>>Oh, I get it: it's another way to bash Jews. Some Jews are terrorists, >>>therefore all Jews are terrorists. >>>Regards, >>>Rich Green >> >> The JDL is plugged on Nizkor, accomodated a link, under >>"anti-racist resources". Nizkor is a Holocasut promotional page. The >>rest of your raving gets nothing. And I don't believe you have a >>problem with the JDL. Its obvious your ethnocentrically insane. Thats >>why you ask what the post had to do with the Holocaust, without >>recognizing it yourself, which was obvious. > >Mr. Moran's evidnece that I don't have a problem with the JDL is... >Oh I forgot, some Jews are terrorists, therefore all Jews are >terrorists. By the way, thanks for confirming that it has nothing to do >with the Holocaust and is just another way to bash Jews. "Confirming it"? What and where would that be? > >Regards, > >Rich Green > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry >rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU Stanford University >http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080 > "Remember the days of yore, > "Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you." > -Deuteronomy 32:7 From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 20:43:06 PDT 1996 Article: 47561 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:31:54 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31d7d335.222006@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d678b9.254137@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >> Then there is the clickable from the Nizkor site, "The Jewish >> Defense League". > >The Zuendelsite, IHR web site, and CODOH web site are also clickable >from the Nizkor site. Do you also assume that we support them as >well? I think you must be confused, Mr. Moran, as to the meaning of >an "other sites" page. Let me try to explain: it provides links to >other sites. > >Hope this helps. Jamie, I notice you avoided comment on the solicited clarification in the intro to the JDL declaration. The one about your referrence to a photograph of Marc Lemire and your tacit disclaimer against violence. What I think, is, Nizkor is trying to be cute by employing an inverted suggestion. > >Posted/emailed. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. Hate sites will be reported. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 20:43:07 PDT 1996 Article: 47562 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:32:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31d7d35c.261223@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d678b9.254137@news.pacificnet.net> <31d6baab.17135776@news.pacificnet.net> <4r6h48$3ri@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote: >The JDL is no ally of mine. >What does this thread have to do with the historicity of the holocaust? >Oh, I get it: it's another way to bash Jews. Some Jews are terrorists, >therefore all Jews are terrorists. >Regards, >Rich Green The JDL is plugged on Nizkor, accomodated a link, under "anti-racist resources". Nizkor is a Holocasut promotional page. The rest of your raving gets nothing. And I don't believe you have a problem with the JDL. Its obvious your ethnocentrically insane. Thats why you ask what the post had to do with the Holocaust, without recognizing it yourself, which was obvious. > > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry >rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU Stanford University >http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080 > "Remember the days of yore, > "Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you." > -Deuteronomy 32:7 From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 20:43:08 PDT 1996 Article: 47563 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:33:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <31d7d36c.277316@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d678b9.254137@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: >Posted/emailed. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. Love mail to Jamie. Dear Jamie, I've been reading your stuff on alt.rev. for a number of months now. I find your style to be exquisite. You apparently are a person of great learning. I find your arguments to be straight foward and profound. Though I notice that sometimes you may tend to avoid most of a post when you respond, I realize this is a good practice since there are limits to the minds capability. I find you have a great sense of humor, especially when you join in banter with those who are loyal to your position. This is an effective ploy when a really tough question comes up. Sometimes its better to avoid a question instead of taking a chance on trying to bluff your way through. I am also impressed with the way you just don't come back to a response if it poses a quandry for your capacity. In spite of any justifiable omissions or evasions, I have noticed that those neo-Nazi haters, like that Moran person and some others, will post something that seems like it could be very incriminating to your position and you or any of your friends do not respond at all. I think this is a dire mistake. I don't think any post should be left to go by unresponded to. You should say at least something, anything, but don't just let it pass by. Love, Tom Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 1 20:43:09 PDT 1996 Article: 47564 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ahhhh...incest is best for j*ws Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:33:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 47 Message-ID: <31d7d393.315708@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4r3edb$38sm@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <31d5c5f5.3750828@pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: >On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, tom moran wrote: > >> On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:01:50 -0700, Marty Kelley wrote: >> >> >On 29 Jun 1996, one of the alleged human beings posting under the name >> >M Huber wrote: >> > >> >> The story begins....."Born with 3 birth defects--his stomach wall never >> >> closed completely, his lungs compressed by fluid and his diaphragm >> >> protruding through a tear in his abdominal wall--he has been in & out of >> >> hospitals for 15 of his 18 months of life and has had 10 surgeries...." >> >> >> >> Little baby jacob STEINHAUER is the product of centuries of inbreeding. >> >> He may, however, be the savior of the havoc his people have been >> >> wreacking upon the rest of mankind for all of those centuries. Unless >> >> j*ws >> >> stop their barbaric, ritualistic behavior, there simply won't be any of >> >> them around. >> >> Huber, you have some pretty good information. But cool it. You >> want to swing the every day person. There are a myriad of mind sets >> out there. Find the middle road. Venom in writing can scare people >> away. Forget about insulting Hebrews. Just factual information is >> enough and is what beats them most. > >You are a very amusing person, Mr. Moran! I would suggest that you >attempt taking your own advice about presenting factual information! By >the way, what parts of the Huber entity's post would you consider "good >information"? The part where he/she/it ridicules the pain of a baby with >a severe medical problem, or the unsubstantiated claim that the medical >problem is the result of "incest," or the part (which I snipped) about >Jewish terror squads kidnapping Jews who are engaged to gentiles and >taking them to rabbis for re-education? Did I say anything about this post? Show me where. > > >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." > --Mark Twain > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 11:14:41 PDT 1996 Article: 47700 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The Best of Nizkor Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 13:19:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 171 Message-ID: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 The Best of Nizkor; Hilary Ostrov representing, Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ ----------- As you will see, there is no reason to post any of the stuff which imspired Hilary to make comment. ----------- The Best of Nizkor Example No.1, and then so on. "Actually Tommie, there was a ZOG meeting that day, and all the Nizkorites - including Mr. McVay - decided that in the interest of conserving bandwidth (and not seeing any sign that you have mastered the art of taming your rigii and noticing that you and Mr. Giwer are becoming increasingly indistinguishable, so that - as in this particular post - you appear to be talking only to yourself) we're just going to ignore you. However, since Mr. Katz was not able to attend the meeting, and hadn't read our new secret protocols of responding to Tommie, he did respond. And his response does bear repeating:" ============== "Poor Mr. Moran! His rigii reading must be in a complete fog, and his legal pad in total disarray." ============== "Let me explain what an "archive file" is, Mr. Moran. On second thoughts, no I won't. You seem to need the practice using a dictionary. So look it up. Perhaps then you will understand the ^^^^[1] reference above. And if you ever succeeded in mastering the lessons I posted for you on how to use your newsreader to copy an URL, you might want to make note of the following which will make it very easy for you not to lose track of your trail of lies in the future: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom" ================ "Mr. Eideken, I believe we may be doing Mr. Moran (and perhaps his alter-ego/echo-clone, Mr. Giwer) a grave disservice. As the above clearly indicates, Mr. Moran finds it exceedingly difficult to give credence to the possibility that you might have visited a library (perhaps because he himself has never spent any productive time in a library). The poor man keeps pleading for PHOTOS. Btw, see if you can get the librarian to include a few PHOTOS of "books" - as well as some simple instructions on how to read them." =============== "**Your new, improved ZOG decoder ring is en route and contains your secret password for the code to decipher the password for access to http://www.topsecret.zog.com/ where you will find his latest address. Posted and secretly e-mailed to Mr. Eideken" =============== "Actually, Mr. Van Alstine, as you and others have so cogently demonstrated, Mr. Giwer *doesn't* have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it is time to create a new newsgroup where he and Mr. Moran can continue to delude themselves: alt.PAR-from-the-PRIG (Pompous Arrogant Redundancy from the Pontificating Ridiculously Ignorant Giwer)" ================ "Please Mr. Moran, can you be a little more inspiring; so that maybe Mr. Morris will post some more delicious recipes ... they have been the most enlightening consequence of your posts in the past :>)" ================ "Now Mr. Moran has shown that he can post a complete sentence without a spelling error (although he has yet to master syntax and grammar), perhaps he will learn how to go to a library (or a bookstore), read a reference book and do his own homework." ================ "Perhaps Mr. Moran's "powder" or that "monkey on his back" has affected is recall of how to copy an URL from his NewsReader to his Web browser. The following excerpted repost is presented as a public service:" ================ "From: A Lesson for Mr. Moran (Was Re: Where are the URLs?) - posted to alt.revisionism Dec. 1/95 [To further assist Mr. Moran, I have amended the *explicits* to inimize his confusion. The amendments are indented and contained within square brackets, just like this comment.]" =============== "Poor Li'l Tommy. Looks like he's succumbed to Giwerundic paupacy. Must be one of the tortable side effects of "freudian pasting"." =============== "Good advice to the "revisionists", though, Tommy. But past experience suggests that they are too hooked on their lies to be *able* to refrain from the practice of "revisionism"." =============== Well, nice try Mr. McCarthy, but it doesn't seem to have helped. You know for a while I thought I saw some signs of progress. But now it seems that Mr. Moran's progress is in remission (or maybe that should be retransmission ... he's run this little gambit before, hasn't he?!) I'll leave his brilliant little response attached. It is somewhat amusing in a way. What _is_ this JDL declaration bit?! Doesn't he think we have enough to do with Nizkor pages?! Sheesh, he must think we go all over the net creating pages for other people! He claims that Nizkor is engaging in "inverted suggestion." I don't think any of the web pages are upside down are they? Or maybe he thinks that because there is a *mirror* site on *eye.net* that there must be an optical illusion somewhere - and he's just taken a stab in the dark. And he thinks our disclaimer is "tacit"! Sheesh, you'd think by now, he of all people would recognize an "explicit" when he saw one! =================== TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes. ==================== Mr. Thomas, I believe the appropriate expression here is pot.kettle.black If the reader is somewhat puzzled by my so-called "personal attack", I do believe that all will be quickly clarified - and indeed confirmed - by a perusal of the extensive postings of Mr. Moran which can be found at: =================== Hmmm ... so you believe this is a legitimate "term" and _not_ the equivalent of name calling in the absence of any substantive facts. I think we may have a very strong difference of opinion here, Mr. Thomas. Heavens, next thing I know you will be suggesting that I have been engaging in tortable paupacies! ==================== TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes. ==================== Definitely _not_ on _Saturday_ morning, Mr. Kelley! And if the Lubavitch Hassidim were in and they knocked on your door on Sunday morning (or any other morning - or any part of any other day, for that matter), they would do so _only_ if they saw a mezuzzah on your doorpost. ==================== Ah, I see that everyone's favourite "denier in search of a persona" has now taken upon himself (in an indisputably "Testimentary" fashion) the mantle of Doctor of Divinity. ==================== http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 13:07:54 PDT 1996 Article: 47740 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Between the lines Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:03:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <31d90fee.1209009@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d2f7c9.22261157@news.pacificnet.net> <31d6e947.1635282@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: Commenting on the Jewish evangilist sect in comparison to Christians. "At least they don't come knocking on your door early on a Saturday morning...)" tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) responded: As to the Jewish sect's being called evangelistic, "Lubavitch too? But I see you have made the other the more of the two evils, "At least they don't ...", (Lubavitch, that is). Its funny how the righteous accusers of neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism slip up now and then. >> >>---------------------- >>Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) >> >>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." >> --Mark Twain >> > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 13:07:55 PDT 1996 Article: 47742 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Yet Another Ministry of Love Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:04:58 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 31 Message-ID: <31d91007.1234494@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d68c7c.5312840@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: As to this portion of the report: "In one hallway, leading to a wall-size color photograph of a stretch of railroad tracks going into Birkenau ... Bolted to the ceiling are rail tracks, seeming to reflect the tracks running up to the Birkenau gate. They are the actual tracks and ties ..., said Ms.Leavey, who recalled being puzzled by this part of the exhibit and observing to Mr.Hirsch (museum architect) that it did not make sense. 'His response was that neither did the Holocaust'. This is pretty funny. The witty brilliancy. The flash of genius. This should go over big with any visitors. The goyims will love it. Maybe Mr.Hirsch thinks it will have some subliminal controlling effect on the visitors. His answer to why he dreamt up the idea doesn't do it. If he had an answer we would have gotten something. It was just a flash of witty. I wonder what the workmen thought while they stood there with Mr.Hirsch instructing them to put the tracks up on the ceiling. Can you see it? Some ol' Georgia boys standing their while Mr.Hirsch tells em to put the tracks up on the ceiling. The ol' Georgia boys looking at each other with their eyebrows cocked. While sitting around for lunch, one of em says to another, "Goldarn, Clive, do you believe it? I can't wait to get home and tell Bobby Joe about this one." The other one responding, "Ya got that right Clem, ol Bobby Joe will bust a gut." From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 13:07:56 PDT 1996 Article: 47745 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news-in.tiac.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:29:06 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <31d6f08d.3498173@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net> <4r41gd$l3h@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <30JUN199613150651@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> >>Ah, but don't you see, Danny, that Mr. Moran knows that Jews only >>_appear_ to disagree in public--really, the disagreements and debates >>between vrious factions in organized (and disorganized!) Judaism and >>Jewish culture are just a smoke screen for what Mr. Moran knows is the >>real secret monolithic Jewish agenda. > > Oh, right Marty. I forgot. What could I have been thinking... Just as I thought, before clicking up Mr.Mittleman's thread, I "copied" my response to Mr.Kelley's bantor in anticipation Mr.Mittleman would be following up. (Repeat from another post) Ah yes, some inter Tom and Jerry bantor. I think these two guys, Kelley and Mittleman post together at the same computer. They probably think of stuff and bounce it off each other, giggling. I'm not sure, but I think they have some academic position, which means, bye, bye American mind, deeper and deeper into the abyss of mal-rationale. What was the original subject in this post anyway. Oh yea, "ADL rabbi tries to weasel" First statement, "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews". Second statement, "I did not say Christians were guilty of the Holocaust. What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times ..." > >Ah, but don't you see, Danny, that Mr. Moran knows that Jews only >_appear_ to disagree in public--really, the disagreements and debates >between vrious factions in organized (and disorganized!) Judaism and >Jewish culture are just a smoke screen for what Mr. Moran knows is the >real secret monolithic Jewish agenda. > >---------------------- > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 18:31:27 PDT 1996 Article: 47817 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:19:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <31d91266.1841360@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d7d8d0.1657032@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620463025@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > BEHOLD THE LIE: Historians have never claimed that 4,000m000 people > were exterminated at Auschwitz. Note that Tommy does not provide > historical citations for his claim - he never does when he reposts this > drivel. > BEHOLD THE LIE: Tommy is presenting this paragraph out of context. In > context at SWC it clearly is among a list of questions posed by > deniers. What Tommy prints here is the denier question verbatim. > What Tommy does not print is the response to the question which > explains that the count of deaths at Auschwitz has always be estimated > by historians to be in the range of one million or so (actually 800,000 > to 1,500,000 in different studies.) > > You get the point. The rest of Tommy's lies are deleted. > > daniel david mittleman So far what we have is, Moran's posting of thirty examples to show the lie and Mr.Mittleman's saying it is all a lie. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 18:31:28 PDT 1996 Article: 47824 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: OOH - WEE Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:48:33 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Mr.Mittleman: >> You are just blowing smoke, Tommy. You are unable to satisfactorally >> answer these questions above. Moran: > Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination >centers. Mr.Mittleman? ------------------------- >>> Just a little while ago Nizkor celebrated its Happy 100 Megabyte >>>milestone. It looks like the time may come when they will being >>>celebrating their Happy 100 Gigabyte moment. >> >> Well, that is well down the road, but I imagine it will come someday. >> As more graphics are stored at Nizkor the database should gain size. > > "Graphics"? Where do graphics fit in? They just take up peoples >time. If you use Comp U Serve it could cost you 10 dollars just >waiting for them. You couldn't mean 'photographics' could you? No, >that wouldn't be it. Any Holocaust photographs tend to deny the story >than confirm it. > Could you elaborate a bit more on these "graphics", Mr.Mittleman? > Mr.Mittleman? From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 18:31:29 PDT 1996 Article: 47826 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: "Coming soon to a newsgroup near you" Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 13:20:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <31d92201.5836660@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Moran had posted "The Best of Nizkor". A list of examples of Hilary Ostrov's finest material. Hilary came back with something witty. Moran challenged: "Hilary, why don't you post something like 'The Best of Moran' like I do to list your capacities? Go for it, Hilary." Hilary came back with: "In Message-ID: <31a70964.983541@news.pacificnet.net> the denier in search of a persona hurled the gauntlet onto the table:" From: hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Tommy's Invite Accepted Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:24:47 GMT Continuing, Hilary with grandiose bravado claims she is going to deliver: "Why, thank you Li'l Tommy. I'm kind of busy right now working out the details for shipping the latest and greatest ZOG decoder rings (Yale, yours should be the first one to arrive. Once I've perfected that, I know the others will be a piece of cake). Probably won't take me more than a few days, though. And just as soon as I've got it finished, I'll get right to work on this. "Coming soon to a newsreader near you: The Morphing of Tom Moran: a brief history of his evolution from passive deluded denier to active (but inept) deluding distortionist." So we had Hilary announcing, "Coming soon to a newsreader near you" which she had mentioned would be in a "few days". Which was over a month ago. The reality is that the only thing Hilary has done is to go on and post more examples, now included under the repost of "The Best of Nizkor". ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 2 18:31:30 PDT 1996 Article: 47829 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Remember the Children" Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:26:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31d913fe.2249453@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620395531@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >> >> "Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted >>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It >>is displayed on the inside and on the outside. > > When did you visit the Museum? August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away, on the spot. Check them out next time you go there. Do you have anything to say about the post directly? > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 07:38:12 PDT 1996 Article: 47872 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.netrail.net!news1.n2n.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Christians 'take it like a man' Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 02:10:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31d9d63d.9319838@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Over the last two years or so there have been a number of articles in the N.Y. and L.A. Times about Biblical revisionism. There also has been a couple sizable aticles in TIME Magazine, given front cover attention. The articles have been basically reports on conferences and such, attended by scholars, and the dogmas challenged have ranged from did Christ do this , or did he do that, was he really the son of god. Now if there has been any wailing and snarling of terms like 'anti-Christianism' I don't recall seeing any reports. Nor do I recall seeing anyone out to have any conferences banned. Now theres something noticably different with all this. Here we have challenges to the very heart of a global religion and nary a uproar, but when it comes to challenging the Holocaust story - "ANTI-SEMITISM - NEO NAZI - BIGOT - RACIST" - and other naughty accusations. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 07:38:13 PDT 1996 Article: 47878 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:02:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 53 Message-ID: <31d90fc8.1171440@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net> <4r41gd$l3h@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <31d6894c.4496929@news.pacificnet.net> <30JUN199612283218@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ea6e.1930943@news.pacificnet.net> <4r8u01$5kq@lendl.cc.emory.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-25.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote: >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: >: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > >: Here, see if you can make a relationship with the following names >: as to what we are talking about. >: >: Henry Ford > >American industrialist and addle-pated antisemite. Bought the phony >"Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" hook, line and sinker. Believer >in various popular forms of spiritualist bunkum. > >: Nietsche > >Misspelled German philosopher. Considered antisemitism a disease. > >: John Lennon > >Dead Beatle > >: Martin Luther > >Leader of the Reformation. Virulent antisemite and all-around sourpuss. > >: Charles Dickenson > >Illegitimate son of Charles Dickens and Emily Dickenson. > >: William Shakespeare > >Correctly-spelled English playwright, possibly a pen name for Edward >de Vere, Earl of Oxford. Created the character of Shylock, mixing >popular prejudice with empathy. Probably never met a Jew, as there >were very few in England in his day. > >: Thomas Edison > >American inventor. Electrocuted dogs. Created the technology which >eventually gave rise to Bertie Higgins. > >Hmm. Relationship. Let's see, now... > >Oh! I know! They're all about to have their lives and ideas distorted >by a half-bright anti-semitic fool? > >What did I win? > >Bill All genius, all deemed "anti-Semitic". Including Nietsche. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 07:38:14 PDT 1996 Article: 47964 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: - Birkenau Map w/ kitchens.jpg (0/2) Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:59:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <31d9a868.2051503@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31c80bae.293683@news.pacificnet.net> <31c96b0b.3962893@news.pacificnet.net> <31cbfc67.1247896@news.pacificnet.net> <31cff0e4.3484826@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: > >Why the repost, Moran? Did you perhaps not see my origional post? Did you >not read the e-mail I sent you? Oh, well. I'll simply repost my reply... I never read your e-mail. Most of the time I don't bother to read whatever you post. Didn't I tell you this once before? Didn't I tell you not to send me anymore e-mail? Why do you waste the resources? Maybe you think it makes me mad, or you intend it to make me mad, when in fact all I do is hit with my fly swatter and drop it in the trash. You send, I trash it. It's Easy. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 10:06:06 PDT 1996 Article: 47977 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!nntp.netrex.net!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: OOH - WEE Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:44:01 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <31d9a5f0.1419536@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net> <2JUL199607210046@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>Mr.Mittleman: >>>> You are just blowing smoke, Tommy. You are unable to satisfactorally >>>> answer these questions above. >>Moran: >>> Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination >>>centers. > > No, I am saying that historians have not changed their view as to > whether those camps were extermination camps. Your post intimated that > they had. Tricky wording. So you are saying it never was said to have been an extermination camp? > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 10:06:07 PDT 1996 Article: 47986 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Christians 'take it like a man' Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:06:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31da8ad7.2378911@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d9d63d.9319838@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: As to this paragraph, > Now if there has been any wailing and snarling of terms like >'anti-Christianism' I don't recall seeing any reports. Nor do I recall >seeing anyone out to have any conferences banned. a Mr.Edeiken has offered up his evidence that it is incorrect: "Then read a little bit. There is a copy of *Time* magazine on my coffee table where those exact charges were made against the "Jesus group." What exact words he doesn't say. If it is whatever he says, it is one example. With those who are so reliant on the Holocaust story to advance themselves - there are hundreds - thousands even - maybe a million examples of how it is an act of "hate", "anti-Semitism", "neo-Nazism" etc. Who knows how many times? It's alot. I believe this Mr.Edeiken has committed himself to it billions of times. > From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 15:06:25 PDT 1996 Article: 47995 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Red Cross inspections of Auschwitz (was Re: Anne Frank) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:53:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31da894b.1983451@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d4956b.7375548@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: > >Nope. Someone's very stupid. Like you Moran. The ICRC didn't visit >Birkenau. Ever. Dr. Grawitz, the head of the German Red Cross _may_ have >visited it with Eichmann. (He _did_ inspect Birkenau, in his capacity as >SS Chief Physician, in 1942.) You know, SS Chief Physician >SS-Obergruppenfu"hrer Grawitz, the guy who recommended to Himmler that gas >chambers be used to exterminate the Jews in the Final Solution? > >Any _other_ stupid questions, Moran? Nope. > >Mark > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes >not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but >right through every human heart--and all human hearts." > >-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago" >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 15:06:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48009 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:34:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 2 Message-ID: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 The Holocaust promotional network's pet word. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 15:06:26 PDT 1996 Article: 48011 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Evil Canada Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 16:14:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <31da9c62.6870733@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 ===================================================================== Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) Accept ===================================================================== "During the twelve years of Nazi terror, from 1933 to 1945, while the United States accepted more than 200,000 Jewish refuges; Palestine, 125,000; embattled Britain, 70,000; Argentina, 50,000; penurious Brazil, 27,000; distant China, 25,000; tiny Bolivia and Chile, 14,000 each, Canada found room for fewer than 5,000." Excerpted from....---------------------------------------------- NONE IS TOO MANY, Irving Abella and Harold Troper, Toronto, 1982 ISBD 0-919630-31-6. (Canada & The Jews of Europe, 1933-1948) --------------------------------------------------------- p. x This is pretty humorous "Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) Accept". Idiotic really. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 15:06:27 PDT 1996 Article: 48014 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: And/Or Numbers Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 16:14:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 79 Message-ID: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From Nizkor: ===================================================================== Numbers of Gassed Victims ===================================================================== From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) Date: Wed, 13 May 1992 In article gmartin@b-cpu.UUCP (George Martin) writes: >NONE were gassed to death. Some were shot, but not in any number >approaching "millions." Wrong. Millions were gassed (either with carbon monoxide or with hydrogen cyanide, released from "Zyklon-B"). Others were shot or starved to death. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Conclusions of the Anglo-American committee for studying the Nazi genocide inflicted on the Jews of Europe, with exact breakdown, country by country: Numbers of missing Jews (post-war minus pre-war): [Nizkor] [Wiesenthal] Germany - 195,000 141,500 Austria - 53,000 50,000 Czechoslovakia - 255,000 No listing Denmark - 1,500 60 France - 140,000 77,320 Belgium - 57,000 28,000 Luxemburg - 3,000 1,950 Norway - 1,000 762 Holland - 120,000 No listing Italy - 20,000 7,680 Jugoslavia - 64,000 63,000 Greece - 64,000 67,000 Bulgaria - 5,000 0--0.0% Rumania - 530,000 287,000 Hungary - 200,000 569,000 Poland - 3,271,000 3,000,000 USSR - 1,050,000 1,100,000 Latvia No listing 71,000 Lithuania No listing 143,000 Slovakia No listing 71,000 Finland No listing 7 The moon No listing No listing Mars No listing No listing Uranus No listing 6,000,000,000,001 Less dispersed refugees (308,000) Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some estimates are lower, some are higher, but this is the magnitude in question. In a recent article in CMU's student newspaper, the head of CMU's History Department, Peter Stearns, is quoted as saying that newly discovered documents - especially in the former USSR - indicate that the number of victims is higher than 6 million. About 6 million non-Jewish civilians were killed by the Nazis - mostly in Poland and Yugoslavia. Many of them died in labor camps inside Germany. -Danny Keren. . From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 16:42:34 PDT 1996 Article: 48031 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.walltech.com!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:45:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 124 Message-ID: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Presented by Nizkor: Jerusalem One ======================================================================= Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One ======================================================================= Shalom to all Our generation looks at today's world with a look of wonder and fear. Words and actions we believed were gone from the world, exterminated once and for all by world culture, become taboo by force of experience and logic - are alive and growing again. The reemergence of racism, neo-nazism and neo-fascism is all around us. It wears many different costumes it calls itself in many different names, and it speaks many different languages. It sometimes even takes on the appearance of liberal thought and world peace. It breaks out sometimes among the most un-looked for areas, in progressive political parties, in governments, even in our beloved United Nations - but the codes it uses are always the same - purity, pride, strength, "unity", sacrifice, to name just a few. Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most terrible weapons. Today's believers in hate will say the most astounding things and feel that they can sway "stupid" and unsophisticated people into believing their way. The Jewish People, who went through the European Holocaust find themselves in awe at these deeds and actions, possibly more than any other people - and for that reason, Jerusalem One sees as one of it's duties to do all it can to fight back. The hatred of the Jewish people is abound everywhere. Some say, without shame that the Jews must be destroyed. Some will say that they are "only" anti-Israel and this has become the modern anti-semitism of many "progressive" forces, as we can see almost daily, for instance, inside the United Nations. Jerusalem One, together with the Jewish People, feel dismayed at the strength of the racist attitudes against all other peoples, against Blacks, Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and all other peoples. The Jewish People feel that the harm done to them by haters, fascists, and Nazis of the past could be worth the sacrifice, if only to serve to bring about the end of such crimes. It is because of this that we fear that present growth of neo-fascist forces will bring all we have suffered to waste. There are those who have written to Jerusalem One and accused our archives on the Holocaust to be giving a reason for neo-nazis to grow, as if forgetting about the Holocaust is the solution. We believe differently. We believe that unsuspecting people must realize that these people are dangerous - not only for the minorities that they hate - but to the very Human Race - that if they are allowed to take us down that long dark and evil road *again* - the Human Race may never come out of it and will seal it's doom. The Special directory we have allotted on the Main Menu of the Jerusalem One Gopher currently consists of three main sub-directories: The Holocaust Archives: These archives consist of years of activity on the Usenet list alt.revisionism managed by Ken Mcvay. Ken, a non-Jew from Canada was the first user on Internet to be astounded by the cynical use of Internet by Neo-Fascists and those who would have us believe that the German Nazis and it's allies never killed "that many Jews and minorities" - and to have done something about it. Although Ken is "just" a normal person with humble means, he, and other users who have joined his efforts have brought to public access thousands of factual documents and files showing the shallow arguments of Neo-Fascists to be what they are - blatant LIES. It should be noted that the work of Ken and others stand, almost by themselves, to stem the exploitation of the openness of Internet of evil forces without any help from those organizations who should be doing the job. Jerusalem One has taken these files and endeavored to bring them to public access in a concise, systematic manner. These files are available to all those who wish to read and learn and/or to use in this struggle. The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies. Modern Neo-Fascism These archives deal with the reemergence of Neo-Fascist and Nazi groups around the world. They are their as testament to all what these groups really are and say, so as not to be taken in under the propaganda they use in order to entice new members. Many of these files are straight print-outs from newspapers and statements from the groups themselves. Also included are studies done by experts in this field. How Can I Help? If you or yoour organization is interested in supplying informatin which you believe can help us help bring an end to Fascism and hate - please contact the email address below: Zvi Lando Email: lando@jer1.co.il Jerusalem One Network Manager Fax: 9722 964588 Ben-Labrat St. 6 Phone: 9722 662242 Jerusalem, Israel Phone: 9722 662232 . From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 16:42:34 PDT 1996 Article: 48033 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!info.usuhs.mil!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:52:25 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <31da9615.5257091@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Nizkor also has a link to "N.J. Commission on Holocaust Education" which is not available at the moment. We will just have to wait for this one. I recall there being some resistance to this reported, with one of the resistance movement citing some new figures of 5,000,000 Jewish victims being put forth, and a Jew bluster demanding that they should leave it at 6,000,000 anyway. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 16:42:35 PDT 1996 Article: 48036 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: JDL, Terrorists Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:34:06 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31da841d.657452@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4ra1ot$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4raj2e$ae6@access1.digex.net> <4raqv9$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4rcvl0$fge@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote: >schwartz@infinet.com wrote: > >>In article <4raqv9$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>> mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote: >>> >>> >In article <4ra1ot$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, >>> > wrote: >>> >> From their own website... >>> >> >>> >>[snip] >>> >> >>> >>The sources for the philosophy and actions of the Jewish Defense League >>> >>are Jewish sources. >>> >> >>> >> Don't bother calling me antisemitic for pointing out their own words >>> >>from their own site. We all know that it what it is. >>> >>> > Yes. Off-topic. I thought you wanted to get this newsgroup back on >>> >track? "Off topic". Thats the new thing Stein is trying. Green is on to this "off topic" topic also. It so rediculous. Typical. The usual. The facts are Nizkor and all the rest of their amen corner, or vice versa are obsessed with "hate" groups. These persons would like to play a game. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 16:42:36 PDT 1996 Article: 48042 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: OOH - WEE Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:42:24 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31da858c.1024625@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> <31d9a5f0.1419536@news.pacificnet.net> <2JUL199621514261@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > Which camps are we talking about now? I've forgotton and you have > removed it from the conversation stream. When you tell me the camp, I > will need to research the answer. Other than Auschwitz, I don't have > too many of the camps memorized. But your initial post stated that the > status of two camps changed recently. I asked you for evidence of a > change. You have since played lots of word games but have not provided > any evidence to support your initial assertion. Which is status quo > for you. He says he has forgotten what camps we're talking about. All he had to do is look back through the thread, a short work. "Other than Auschwitz" he doesn't have too many of the camps memorized. He says I have "played lots of word games". No further comment than to ionvite anyone reading this to review the thread to see who is playing games. Enough of you Mr.Mittleman. All you can remember is Auschwitz. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 19:42:35 PDT 1996 Article: 48077 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!news.tufts.edu!nntp.uac.net!usenet.logical.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Coming soon to a newsgroup near you" Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:35:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31da8513.903351@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d92201.5836660@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >"Why, thank you Li'l Tommy. I'm kind of busy right now working out >the details for shipping the latest and greatest ZOG decoder rings >(Yale, yours should be the first one to arrive. Once I've perfected >that, I know the others will be a piece of cake). Probably won't take >me more than a few days, though. And just as soon as I've got it >finished, I'll get right to work on this. Above, Hilary mentions she is "working out the details for shipping", the latest ZOG decoder rings. She then interjects that she is going to send the first off to someone, and then once she has "perfected that" the rest should be "a piece of cake". Whats to perfect? Was it getting the little lid on the box, or what? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 3 19:42:36 PDT 1996 Article: 48079 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust final exam Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:11:54 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <31dae1ff.2002675@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Question: The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story is: A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice? B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort money. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 07:44:15 PDT 1996 Article: 48123 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: And/Or Numbers Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 20:54:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Not explained at the head of the above main article is, that the main list ("Nizkor") and commentary was given by D.Keren in response to a Mr.Martin back in 1992. The figures for the Wiesenthal Center, I added. I believe some other lists may have the numbers for the moon. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 07:44:16 PDT 1996 Article: 48211 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:11:11 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <31dbd077.2696158@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Tom Moran had written: >>Question: >> The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story >>is: >> A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice? > >> B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort >>money. hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) responded: >The correct wording of the question is: > >The reason Tom Moran is so avid in recycling his drivel and lies is: > > A: So that the world will know what a horribly bigotted and malicious >anti-Semitic twit he is? > > B: To prove he can cut and paste, demonstrate his ignorance and waste >bandwidth? > > C: Both of the above? > >hro >======================= >Hilary Ostrov >e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com >http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ >Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 11:53:26 PDT 1996 Article: 48246 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:19 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 45 Message-ID: <31dbfd7e.3653171@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Paragraphs 8, 9 and 10. >The Special directory we have allotted on the Main Menu of the >Jerusalem One Gopher currently consists of three main sub-directories: >The Holocaust Archives: > >These archives consist of years of activity on the Usenet list >alt.revisionism managed by Ken Mcvay. Ken, a non-Jew from Canada was >the first user on Internet to be astounded by the cynical use of >Internet by Neo-Fascists and those who would have us believe that the >German Nazis and it's allies never killed "that many Jews and >minorities" - and to have done something about it. Pointing out that Ken McVay is a "non-Jew". 'See, it's not only the Jews who are active in pressing the Holocaust story.' Okay, they have McVay. >Although Ken is "just" a normal person with humble means, he, and >other users who have joined his efforts have brought to public access >thousands of factual documents and files showing the shallow arguments >of Neo-Fascists to be what they are - blatant LIES. It should be noted >that the work of Ken and others stand, almost by themselves, to stem >the exploitation of the openness of Internet of evil forces without >any help from those organizations who should be doing the job. This is the stinkiest paragraph here. This idiot there in Jeruselem saying how McVay and others are out to stem the "exploitation of the openess of Internet of evil forces" - - "without any help from those organizations who should be doing the job". This bird brain over there in Jeruselem is talking about servers, the U.S. Congress and any other agency that can bring pressure to bear to halt anything the Jews deem to be hateful. Jeruselm One should stay out of our buisness. We don't need their Zionist practices over here any more than what we have already. The facts are, not only can it be shown that nothing good for the us or the World has ever come from our support for the Jewish state, but that the only thing that could be shown is that it has been a disaster for the U.S., and the World. All they have are words and nothing else. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 13:42:44 PDT 1996 Article: 48254 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31dbfd4a.3601212@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Some accompaning commentary. > Presented by Nizkor: > > Jerusalem One > >======================================================================= > Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One >======================================================================= > >Shalom to all "Shalom". This word can be directed to you after a discussion, even when the bidder of the word is irate with your stance. It comes across more like a groaning shalom than a musical shalom. It can be employed in a such a way to try and 'put you on the spot'. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 13:42:45 PDT 1996 Article: 48255 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <31dbfd71.3640703@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Paragraph 6 >There are those who have written to Jerusalem One and accused our >archives on the Holocaust to be giving a reason for neo-nazis to grow, >as if forgetting about the Holocaust is the solution. We believe >differently. We believe that unsuspecting people must realize that >these people are dangerous - not only for the minorities that they >hate - but to the very Human Race - that if they are allowed to take >us down that long dark and evil road *again* - the Human Race may >never come out of it and will seal it's doom. One could imagine that those who "have written" were Jews. There are Jews who think or recognize that the high saturation of Holocaustery is like 'crying wolf ten thousand times too often'. Here we have this person telling us the reason they push the Holocaust to the brink is to teach the world the horrors of bigotry, when the evidence shows the Jews press the Holocaust as a means for extorting influence and money. Considering the accent on "again" - "*again*", from "Never again", we have to assume when this Jeruselem One continues "the Human Race may never come out of it and will seal it's doom" they are talking about their own history, and that they will act to destroy the whole world if things get out of hand. Screw with us and "seal the doom" of the whole world. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 13:42:46 PDT 1996 Article: 48256 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Push, push, push Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:31:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 33 Message-ID: <31dbfe0c.3795921@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608115015@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >> >> "Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses" >> N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996 > > Thanks for the quick work. You have this posted even before I got out > of bed this morning. Every day Mr.Mittleman's body gets out of bed, and then proceeds to sleep walk all day. > Well, with all the denier disinformation going around it is not > surprising you are confused. > >> The article tells us there are 20,000 "survivors" out of the >>100,000 remaining. Seeing how it is now 1996, 50 years after the the >>dubious facts, we have 1/5 of those remaining today being "survivors". > > Not surprising since most of the survivors would have been teens or > young adults in 1945. The older population was put to death for the > most part. Mr.Mittleman says it was only the older population that was sent to Auschwitz and only the teenagers were left behind. Back to bed Mr.Mittleman. > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 15:33:22 PDT 1996 Article: 48278 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!news.conterra.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: And/Or Numbers Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:02:40 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31dbceef.2303938@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net> <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199622231073@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >> >> Not explained at the head of the above main article is, that the >>main list ("Nizkor") and commentary was given by D.Keren in response >>to a Mr.Martin back in 1992. >> >> The figures for the Wiesenthal Center, I added. >> >> I believe some other lists may have the numbers for the moon. > > Yeah, we noticed you added your anus to the post. > > Also not explained is that George Martin turned out to be a nom de > plume for Dan Gannon. Relevancy? > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 15:33:23 PDT 1996 Article: 48285 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!info.usuhs.mil!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Push, push, push Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 13:50:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 "Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses" N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996 The Government has agreed to compensate the Jewish community for property seized during WWII, a Jewish leader said today. 'This is a landmark agreement, a big step forward', said Gusztav Zoltai, head of the Hungarian Jewish Communities. More than 600,000 of the million Jews who lived in Hungary before WWII were killed in the Holocasut. Today there are about 100,000 Jews in Hungary, including 20,000 Holocaust survivors. .... The agreement establishes a Hungarian Jewish Heritage Foundation to manage the assets, ... plus 26 million dollars .... $$$$$$$$$$ Establishment of the foundation is subject to confirmation by Parliment, ... The agreement does not foresee direct restitution of property even if owners or decendants can be found, ..." Well, 600,000 Jews killed? Well, sometimes its 500,000, and sometimes is 400,000, and sometimes 200,000. The article tells us there are 20,000 "survivors" out of the 100,000 remaining. Seeing how it is now 1996, 50 years after the the dubious facts, we have 1/5 of those remaining today being "survivors". It doesn't seem to have gone all that well for the Jews negotiating. No property is to be part of the deal and Parliment still has to vote on whatever was discussed. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 15:33:23 PDT 1996 Article: 48287 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!info.usuhs.mil!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 13:50:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199609415098@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... > >>HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE > > Tom Moran's manifesto. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" Actually, Mr.Mittleman has just made a funny on the title of the article. What he didn't respond to was the message: "The Holocaust promotional network's pet word." What could be done is to do a rough survey on how many times the word hate comes up in Nizkor files and we could suggest HATE is, in fact, one of their pet words. Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are "Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 19:55:08 PDT 1996 Article: 48332 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:08 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 67 Message-ID: <31dbfd6b.3634881@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > Presented by Nizkor: > > Jerusalem One > >======================================================================= > Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One >======================================================================= Paragraph 4. >The Jewish People, who went through the European Holocaust find >themselves in awe at these deeds and actions, possibly more than any >other people - and for that reason, Jerusalem One sees as one of it's >duties to do all it can to fight back. The hatred of the Jewish people >is abound everywhere. Some say, without shame that the Jews must be >destroyed. Some will say that they are "only" anti-Israel and this has >become the modern anti-semitism of many "progressive" forces, as we >can see almost daily, for instance, inside the United Nations. "The hatred of the Jewish people is abound everywhere". If this is so, one should wonder, omitting any moral judgement for now, why is this? "Everywhere"? Here we get our first taste of 'He who hates Israel policies is an anti-Semite'. This is an unwritten code in the U.S. Again we have this referrence to the U.N. What Jeruselem One is referring to here is the many U.N. resolutions condemning Zionist practices and policies. What the Jews do is, spit in the face of this world body and then tell us its this world body who are corrupt. Its hail the U.N. when they make any resolutions against their enemies, like Iraq, but when it comes to any resolutions for the rights of the Palestinians, say, it's the evil U.N. 5. >Jerusalem One, together with the Jewish People, feel dismayed at the >strength of the racist attitudes against all other peoples, against >Blacks, Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and all other peoples. The >Jewish People feel that the harm done to them by haters, fascists, and >Nazis of the past could be worth the sacrifice, if only to serve to >bring about the end of such crimes. It is because of this that we fear >that present growth of neo-fascist forces will bring all we have >suffered to waste. There is no doubt about it, the Jews spend an aweful lot of energy in supressing any negative views of Israel from the American scene. This we could assume would apply to any rights of "Blacks, Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and other people" to say anything negative about Israel. The Jews are obsessed with getting the U.S. to give billions upon billions to the Jewish state of Israel and their "Holocaust survivors". This has nothing to do with the welfare of those that are referred to here. In fact it follows that for every dollar the Jews push to get for their own benefit is that much which doesn't go to the needs of those this paper feigns to care for. Thousands of letters to the editor, columns and articles written by Jews on Jewish things supresses any evidence they could show to prove they are concerned for anyone else. Whenever these propagandist for Israel refer to the indingent of the world, which is focused on Americans here, they omit the Palestinian. For the Palestinians they would have us accept their standard 'exclusion principle', 'oh that's a different story', oh that's okay. The media channels mentioned above have a overwhelming record of this. Jews for Jews, feigning concern for others, when in fact the realities challenge their words. All talk, no substance. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 4 19:55:09 PDT 1996 Article: 48334 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:04 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 58 Message-ID: <31dbfd5d.3620765@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > Presented by Nizkor: > > Jerusalem One > >======================================================================= > Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One >======================================================================= Paragraph 1. >Our generation looks at today's world with a look of wonder and fear. >Words and actions we believed were gone from the world, exterminated >once and for all by world culture, become taboo by force of experience >and logic - are alive and growing again. 2. >The reemergence of racism, neo-nazism and neo-fascism is all around >us. It wears many different costumes it calls itself in many different >names, and it speaks many different languages. It sometimes even takes >on the appearance of liberal thought and world peace. It breaks out >sometimes among the most un-looked for areas, in progressive political >parties, in governments, even in our beloved United Nations - but the >codes it uses are always the same - purity, pride, strength, "unity", >sacrifice, to name just a few. It would be appropriate for Jeruselem One to give some examples and names of these racist, neo-Nazi, neo-Facist manifistations. "Liberal thought" is the enemy too. Even in "our beloved U.N."? We'll find out about that later down. "Purity, pride, strength, 'unity', sacrifice," are "code" words for this enemy, "to name just a few". Well that doesn't give us any information on who and/or exactly what Jeruselem One is talking about. I wonder if any of these concepts are expressed by Zionism? 3. >Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most terrible >weapons. Today's believers in hate will say the most astounding things >and feel that they can sway "stupid" and unsophisticated people into >believing their way. Now "Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most powerful weapons". Now thats a statement. "Neo-Nazi" and "anti-Semitic" are words that are used quite liberally to gain aquiescence for the sole sake of a special interests. Actually the most hate I've ever witnessed is that expressed against Israel's enemies, right in our daily medias, daily. To make a point of this, all one would have to do is present some examples and reverse the words, Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians, Catholics and/or Christians with the word(s) Jewish, Zionism, Israel and we would be hearing wailing to no end. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 06:39:42 PDT 1996 Article: 48377 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 68 Message-ID: <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Paragraphs 11, 12 and 13. >The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers > >This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to >bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects >along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their >students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone >who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies. Who do these people think they are getting involved with the American education system? These are the same people who committ themselves to closing down Palestinian schools and universities. Their only motive is to introduce Zionist propaganda into our education systems. And here we have this element being accomodated by this goofy Nizkor and it's evident idiotic staff of McVay, McCarthy and Hilary, and the phantom directors that finance the site. >Modern Neo-Fascism > >These archives deal with the reemergence of Neo-Fascist and Nazi >groups around the world. They are their as testament to all what these >groups really are and say, so as not to be taken in under the >propaganda they use in order to entice new members. Many of these >files are straight print-outs from newspapers and statements from the >groups themselves. Also included are studies done by experts in this >field. In the end they try to sell us on their rhetoric by citing that their archives are "Straight from print-outs of news papers" and "studies done by experts in this field". Some of these experts would be the likes of the ADL, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress and any goyem lackies. >How Can I Help? > >If you or yoour organization is interested in supplying informatin >which you believe can help us help bring an end to Fascism and hate - >please contact the email address below: The fact is, other than having governmental persons submitting to the pushy, bluster demands of the Jews, they are in it alone. Very few, if any goyem organizations are actively involved in supporting or endorsing any of their crap. The only thing they get is cowtowing from persons out to save their own positions so as not have the Jews conspire to unseat them. No one knows it more than the Jews themselves. Jeruselem One, located in the land that shoots down children, routs whole populations of civilians, bombs their camps, their villages, spits at the U.N., and then has a myriad in their "amen corner" here in the U.S. getting their stuff into the major medias telling us how right it all is. >Zvi Lando Email: lando@jer1.co.il >Jerusalem One Network Manager Fax: 9722 964588 >Ben-Labrat St. 6 Phone: 9722 662242 >Jerusalem, Israel Phone: 9722 662232 > > > > > >. > From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 10:03:32 PDT 1996 Article: 48438 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Remember the Children" Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:25:36 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <31dd2578.359978@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620395531@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d913fe.2249453@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > >>In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>> >>> "Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted >>>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It >>>is displayed on the inside and on the outside. Mittleman: >> When did you visit the Museum? Moran: > August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had >to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I >returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour >interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins >were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw >how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away, >on the spot. Check them out next time you go there. Moran: > Do you have anything to say about the post directly? Moran: Since he didn't come back, I guess Mittleman couldn't do it. >> daniel david mittleman >>=========================================================================== >> Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" > From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 10:03:33 PDT 1996 Article: 48440 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:55:50 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31dd2c87.2167230@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [Repost] "Fears Rise Over Nazi Weapons Leaking at Bottom of the Baltic" Los Angeles Times, July 18, 1992 "Tons of chemical weapons dumped by the Allies after World War II, have nudged the sea to the brink of catastrophe, scientists say." "By tossing 300,000 tons of ready - to - fire weapons - enough to to kill the entire population of Europe ... The 300,000 tons of chemical weapons now submerged in the Baltic Sea's greenish brown waters contain enough active gases to kill 800 million people ..." Interesting connotations. The Germans had all these chemical weapons, but did not use them, even when they were on the brink, and here we have the actions of the Allies threatening to accomplish what the Nazis refrained from doing. One wonders why the Nazis would have resorted to using Zyclone B pellets to exterminate people, in lieu of poison gases they surely had? Well we can only assume that Zyclone was used to kill typhoid carrying parasites at the camps and this is why it was found there, and no other reason. It was the only thing that could be pointed to identify as a source for the gas story. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 10:03:34 PDT 1996 Article: 48447 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!weld.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:14:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 105 Message-ID: <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <4e79si$9tc@argentina.it.earthlink.net> <4eaum1$ga6@zippy.cais.net> <31090DAF.650@kaiwan.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] This post via simple mathematical recogning shows that only 15% or less of any Zyklon B pellets said to be the agent of mass extermiantion (gas) would have been used for the alleged mass extermination, leaving 85% or more as not used, thereby showing that the product Zyklon B would have been an idiotic thing for the Germans to have used, and an idiotic thing for anyone to keep trying to push on hte world. >Greg Raven wrote: ># Because Zyklon B is specifically designed to gas off slowly, it is ># obvious a poor choice for a homicidal gassing. >Danny keren wrote: >It's amazing to see that Raven continues with this rubbish, no >matter how many times he is corrected. >Even "revisionist chemist" Germar Rudolph stated that about >40 percent of the HCN is released within half-an-hour. All the >SS had to do was to use, in the gas chambers, a concentration >comparable to that used for delousing. Since humans die >quickly from a far smaller concentration, much less than 40 >percent would have to gas off in order to kill them. >Moreover, Dr. Ulrich Roessler did what our "revisionist scholars" >were too lazy to do for the last 20 years: he located the >original patent for Zyklon-B, which states that the rate of release >is even faster than what Rudolph gave. ># Greg Raven wrote: ># To claim that you could scatter same Zyklon B in a huge room and ># within a few minutes have murdered the hundreds of people inside ># the room, flies in the face of the facts. >Danny Keren wrote: >The above clearly refutes this silly statement by Raven, but >have no fear, he will keep repeating it in the future. After >all, he is a "revisionist scholar". Lets see. Raven says that Zyclone B is made to gas off slowly and thus would be a poor choice for the mass extermination of human beings under the conditions alleged. Karen responds with some material that he concludes "clearly refutes" Raven's "rubbish". The summary of the pertinent refuting information offered by Keren is: 1. 40% of the HCN escapes the storing medium in the first half hour. 2. Humans die quickly from much less concentration, so much less than 40% would have to gas off. 3. That recently discovered patents to Zyclone B show that the gas off is even faster. The points given do not offer sufficient parameters for demonstrating that Zyclone B is an efficient product for mass extermination, such as how much is needed, in what volume and for how long. Regardless of how fast the HCN evaporates into the existing air, it has nothing to do with the necessary volume/quantity/air borne level/time factors, only giving evaporation rate for the first 1/2 hour. You cannot deduce the most critical factors from the information that Keren has supplied. As it turns out Kerens refuting material tends to support the idea that Zyclone B is an inappropriate product for mass human extermination. Since no numerical difference is cited between the 40%, and the "even faster" gassing rate for Zyclone B in the first 1/2 hour, we are left with an indefinite. Lets make it 50%, in the first half hour. This would come out to about 1.6% of 50% per minute being gassed off in this time. We could recognize that the rate of evaporation would be even quicker from the time the can was opened in the first few minutes, gradiating off as time went on. Lets make it 2.5% of 50% is gassed off for every minute, giving the Holocaust position the benefit of the numerical increase. The popular times given for the extermination process are from 5 to 10 minutes. Giving the Holocaust position the benefit of the numerical numbers, lets make it 10 minutes. Putting the figures together we come out needing only 33% of 50%, or more precisely, 15% of the readily used product to attain the goal of mass extermination in the time frame claimed. Right here we can see that the product is inefficient for short term application. Only 15% is used for the intended purpose with the other 85% being useless - wasted - lingering, left over to complicate the ventilation of the chamber, the unloading of the bodies and the preparation for the new batch. This alone shows that Zyclone B would have been a poor choice for mass extermination and further suggests that the product itself was not designed for the purpose. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 10:03:35 PDT 1996 Article: 48449 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Racism in Holocaust books Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:21:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 94 Message-ID: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Partial Repost from "Holocaust of Mind" V. Raul Hilberg, "The Destruction of European Jews" "On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so to speak, nonexistent'". Stupid Russians. ================= VI. "The Destruction of the European Jewery" Raul Hilberg "On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that the Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated in a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent ... During the winter, Fischer created a Resettlement Division under Waldermar Schon, who was going to have a major role in ghetto planning ... The first idea, in February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank of the Vistula River, was turned down ... on the ground that 80 percent of Warsaw's artisans were Jews ... and were indispensible ..." Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant" in relation to the Jews and the Poles in their own nation made up 20%. Either way - stupid Poles. One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the Jews have in America. =============== VII. As to the statement, 'Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant" in relation to the Jews.' Danny Mittleman, alt.rev. regular, responded to this with; "I guess so." As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he (Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' Danny Mittleman responed: "I don't know. I would guess it to be less than 80% for two reasons: One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific fields. And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those education levels." Which means if it wasn't for this, the Jews would be at least 80% of the artisan story in America. Stupid Americans. ================ VIII. Nizkor > Shofar FTP > camps > Mauthausen > Hungary .01 "The fate of the Jewish settlement in Hungary -- one of the largest in Europe -- was a desolating climax to the tragic Holocaust period. Before Hitler came to power in 1933 there were about 800,000 Jews in greater Hungary, 200,000 of then living in Budapest, where despite an endemic anti-Semitism, they were at the forefront of culture, scientific and economic life of the country." Abram Sachar, "The Redemption of the Unwanted". 1983 The figure for the number of prewar Jews in Hungary ranges from 700,000 to 900,000 - 800,000 here. The 700,000 figure is that set forth by an estimate by the Germans, which the Jews use as an authority to show there was a large enough Jewish population in Europe to have been killed and add up to the 6,000,000. The same source cited 700,000 French Jews, which is currently put at 70,000 in more current Holocaust books. Evidentally there was too much of one thing or not enough of another to maintain the gross exaggeration for France, so we should seriously consider any figures given in the list. ============== VIII (a). According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A History of the Holocaust": "The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members." =============== From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 14:56:15 PDT 1996 Article: 48464 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: ADL "friends of free speech" excepting ... Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:50:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 68 Message-ID: <31dd2b60.1871953@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [This is a repost] Letter to the Editor, L.A. Times, Nov. 21, 1991 "Censorship and Computers" "The Anti-Defamation League questioned Prodigy Consumer Network's interpretation and application of it't self inposed guidelines for determining the appropriateness of messages posted on it't bulletin boards. I did not, contrary to Dershowitz's assertion, demand that Prodigy '"censor"' anti-Semitic messages. The ADL, counts itself among the staunchest friends of free speech. The questions raised by Dershowitz as to whether computer services should impose such guidelines is not the point. In light of the fact that Prodigy has guidelines, we brought to their attention complaints we recieved about certain messages that appeared on Prodigy bulletin boards, including messages claiming the Holocaust is a hoax. Prodigy concluded these messages were not offensive. We disagree. Even Dershowitz disagrees. Dershowitz is wrong to claim that ADL's actions '"aggravated the problem."' As the '"watchdog of the Jewish Community against anti-Semitism"', we believe it is better to expose institutional racism and anti-Semitism, if it exist, than to pretend it does not. ADL did not '"mainstream"' the bigotry, it exposed it. The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be offended. Constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe, of Harvard, has stated his belief that, with regard to computerized communications, the issues invovled are not adequately addressed by our legal system. However, since Prodigy has promulgated guidelines and taken the responsibility for drawing lines and making judgement calls as to what is and is not offensive, we and their subscribers have every right to question their decisions without being labeled promoters of censorship." TZIVIA SSHWARTZ Western States Associate Counsel Anti- Defamation League, Los Angeles What a crock of crap. '...among the staunchest friends of freedom of speech", "...complaints they recieved..." The only example they put in here as to these complaints concerns Holocaust denial. Their own interests. They are in denial by stating they did not "demand" Prodigy '"censor"' '"anti-Semitic"' messages and then raising it as a legitimate topic for Constitiutional revisionism. "The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be offended." All those Palestinians, Arabs of other nations, Muslims and Catholics have the right not to be offended, yet this ADL has leveled all sorts of vile accusations against them and they don't go crying for special interpretations and application of our free speech clause. In true ADL form, they cite a "Constitutional law professor .. from Harvard" as a selling point for their view. One man? Some weak minded academite. "Even Dershowitz disagrees"? Dershowitz plays himself as a champion of freedom of speech so he can play that even Holocaust denial is objectionable enough to warrant censorship. This is the good cop bad cop practice that so often accompanies the writings of this faction. I would suggest a full vote before the whole United States as to what should or should not be censored on the Internet. Hows that for democratic procedure? Why leave it up to weak people in position to submit to the standards of those who sleeze around to have our Constitution be specialized for their particular cause. The ADL and associated organizations have their concept of what they think is offensive, and get their complaints in wherever they want, but in the end they're the ones who have the big history of offensiveness against whole nations, whole peoples, whole religions, and they express it with regularity right in our faces, right in our public medias, galore. Right here in their own directive, REVISIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 14:56:15 PDT 1996 Article: 48468 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:12:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31dd4c7e.5474374@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote: >-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES- > >THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96 > >BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN >____________________________________________________________________ > > As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley >R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) >website was shutdown from the World Wide Web. The Bradley R. Smith >Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially >encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust. Perhaps one of those 90 to 0 U.S. Senatorial votes motions endorsing the move? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 15:47:11 PDT 1996 Article: 64547 of alt.conspiracy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Subject: CENSORSHIP - SIMON SAYS AGAIN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:57:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 83 Message-ID: <31dd2d2b.2331511@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] New York Times Jan. 10, 1996 "Jewish Rights Group Urges Ban Of All Hate Messages on Internet" "Citing '"the rapidly expanding presence of organized hate groups on the Internet,"' a leading Jewish human rights group yesterday began sending letters to hundreds of Internet access providers and universities asking them to refuse to carry messages that '"promote racism, anti-Semitism, mayhem and violence"'. The letter from the Simon Weisenthal Center, a 425,000-member organization ... is the latest in a growing effort by legislators and private interest groups to censor offensive material ... which now connects millions of computer users worldwide. '"Internet providers have a First Amendment right and a moral obligation not to provide these groups a platform for their destructive propaganda,"' Rabbi Abraham Cooper, .... wrote in the letter ... Rabbi Cooper said the target of yesterday's call for '"ethical rules of engagement on the Internet"' was not the many discussion forums where individuals debate such topics as whether the Holocaust actually occurred, but rather the Internets's World Wide Web, a service that allows users to publish documents -- including text, pictures ... read by millions of people. Dozens of groups, from white supremist to anarchists, have published documents on the Web about their points of view. Some are revisionists histories and some are racist tracts denigrating blacks, Jews ... Such hate speech is not illegal under Federal law and is generally protected by First Amendment ... But efforts are growing to restrict certain types of information ... Congress is debating ..." The article then goes to give us comments from various people who defend the unrestricted Internet before returning to Rabbi Cooper who said the '"unprecidented potential and scope of the Internet" gives people '"incredible power to promote violence, threaten women, denigrate minorities ..."' "He said letters would be sent to about 2000 Internet providers and university presidents suggesting a voluntary code of ethics. The proposed code asks providers to pledge, '"We consider it our civic duty to refuse or terminate service to any individual or group to exploit our service to promote an agenda of hate and violence"'. A short recap of the of the Jewish "rights group" manifesto is that the target of their agenda was not the many discussion forums where individuals debate such topics as revisionism but the "...groups, from white supremists to anarchists" who have published "documents on the Web" ... Some are revisionists histories ..." As to the Times reporter's stating the Jewish "rights group" is the "latest" group in "a growing effort by legislators and private interest groups ..." the legislators are the only ones named exactly. No other group(s) were cited. Of course those legislators that are mentioned are the same ones that will tell you that Zionist policies of shooting little kids is an act of democracy, and who will muster up 93 Senatorial votes endorsing Jeruselem as capitol of Israel, while they can't agree on anything that would benefit the people of the U.S. Above, again, a Jewish connection that revisionism and "hate" are in the same category. Before any self imposed or legislative imposed restrictions are made on the Internet, we should reqire that any proposers list exactly what they see as example candidates for censorship, and be subject to debate by the general citizens of the U.S. and the world. It can not be left up to Jewish "rights groups" to set the parameters. Its already a unwritten law that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, and few if any dare question any U.S. policies that even remotely connect to that area of the world. The main problem with any kind of censorship is the precidences it sets, which history shows can and will be used to expand them to any level, far removed from the initial precedence. We can not allow ourselves to be controlled by fear and tyranny. The truely intellectual way of dealing with any wacky malevolent doctrines is to counter them with the pen, not by the methods of the likes of the Simon Weisenthal Center. Their approach is a sign of their failure and confidence of intellect to debate a issue and or their condemnation of the American intellect. An act of contempt. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 16:52:57 PDT 1996 Article: 48479 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!weld.news.pipex.net!pipex!hole.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:27:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 63 Message-ID: <31dd25e8.472080@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199609415098@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608132479@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> >>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>> >>>>HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Mr.Mittleman responded to the title: >>> "Tom Moran's manifesto." >>> Moran responded: >> Actually, Mr.Mittleman has just made a funny on the title of the >>article. What he didn't respond to was the message: >>"The Holocaust promotional network's pet word." >> >>What could be done is to do a rough survey on how many times the word >>hate comes up in Nizkor files and we could suggest HATE is, in fact, >>one of their pet words. >> >>Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are >>"Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how >>Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion. As to Moran's question of how would Mr.Mittleman support his conclusion that HATE is, "Tom Moran's manifesto", Mr.Mittleman simply and quite curtly replied: > > "Face validity." "Face validity"? Evidentally all Mr.Mittleman thinks he has to do is point to something someone wrote, give it an adjective, (HATE in this case), and the proof is shown. Is this the same Mr.Mittleman that is always asking for documentation, even when it is right there in front of him? (alt.rev."BEHOLD THE LIE") Is this the same person that scolded Moran, "And what train of logic causes you to make this conclusion. Other than: "BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!'"? (Alt.rev. "OOH WEE") What we have here and present, in it's whole, is Mr.Mittleman's "And what train of logic causes you to make this conclusion." and his response, "Face validity", that has absolutely no "train of logic" to prove his conclusion. Too bad Mr.Mittleman can't live up to, or even remotely approach any standards he calls on others to have. Just this response expresses the empirical route. What has taken place is that Moran has shown, by citing Mr.Mittleman's own words that he has failed to apply his own demanding standards to himself and that he failed to apply the standards to his own responses here, he failed to make any point, and that he is a hypocrit. Mr.Mittleman is a hypocrit. (See above for proof) > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:36 PDT 1996 Article: 48487 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:15:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31dd3175.3429407@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] "Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's *previous* internet censorship attempts" "The amount of cross breeding between Jews and Christians in Europe is such that the gene pool is hopelessly mixed as is, more importantly the meme pool. Try to purge all '"Jewish influences"' from any good library of classical literature and you'll have no books left." By "Jewish influences" we should take it to mean genetic influences. Well that certain is an ethnocentric ego full. Now all we have to is wait and see if this fool can come back with the particulars. But wait he did add that the Bible is one of the classical literatures and all that was written about it. But then the Bible is just a conveyance of a superstitious - racist mentality. As to the other literature - from Plato to Shakespeare to Dickenson and the long list of other writers, philosophers, artists, inventors and discoverers, how many were driven by the Jewish gene? The fact is that the Jewish gene has been for the most part obscured and displaced by the gene of the host society. This is evident in that the Jews from various European countries even take on the physical appearance characteristic to the area. Jews from Romania, say, tend to be short, and Jews from central northern Europe tend to be taller. Considering the low Jewish population ratio, if we should take say 10 genetic connections and put them into a thousand others, in time the genetic characteristics of the 10 will be so overwhelmed that it will become extinct. If there are any genetic influences taking place between Jews and Goys, it is the Goy that is prevailing. Judging by comparison of Jewish history against the Goyem history, it is apparent if it was the other way around we wouldn't have seen the likes of Michaelangelo, Newton, Shakespeare, Nieztche, Wagner and all the rest. What with all the revelations and attention on genetic structures, we can expect a barrage of Jewish murmurings about their genetic influences. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:37 PDT 1996 Article: 48488 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Evil Canada Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:21:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31dd24e6.213877@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da9c62.6870733@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > >===================================================================== > Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) Accept >===================================================================== > >"During the twelve years of Nazi terror, from 1933 to 1945, while the >United States accepted more than 200,000 Jewish refuges; Palestine, >125,000; embattled Britain, 70,000; Argentina, 50,000; penurious >Brazil, 27,000; distant China, 25,000; tiny Bolivia and Chile, 14,000 >each, Canada found room for fewer than 5,000." > >Excerpted from....---------------------------------------------- >NONE IS TOO MANY, Irving Abella and Harold Troper, Toronto, 1982 >ISBD 0-919630-31-6. (Canada & The Jews of Europe, 1933-1948) >--------------------------------------------------------- p. x > > This is pretty humorous "Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) >Accept". Idiotic really. > I wonder how many, say, Iceland accepted? Talk about regugees. I wonder how many of those Palestinians that got thrown out are allowed to even visit Israel. What's that? They say Israel has a special exclusion right not to have to comply with what they condemn? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:38 PDT 1996 Article: 48489 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31dd2517.262925@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199612343251@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >Message-ID: <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tom Moran wrote: > > Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are > "Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how > Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion. > > OK, here is another example: > Mr.Mittleman's simple inclusion of the identified post deleted. >In article <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net>, >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... To which he simply says: > "Fish in a barrel, Zeyde." Evidentally Mr.Mittleman has a problem with the empirical approach to determining something. What he sees it as is, all he has to do is say something, and it is so. Mr.Mittleman has offered nothing to show whatever he uses as examples is proof of his accusations. He's so curt. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:39 PDT 1996 Article: 48490 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <31dd255d.333449@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4rhg1v$6ga@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > >> >The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers >> > >> >This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to >> >bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects >> >along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their >> >students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone >> >who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies. > > >> Who do these people think they are getting involved with the >> American education system? > > Last time I looked, the University of Pennsylvania was located in >*gasp* Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It was just west of the Schuykill River and >just south of Market Street. What right anybody from California has to protest a >private university located in Pennsylvania and with a 230 year history of >involvement in education in Pennsylvania writing a guide for Pennsylvania >teachers is beyond me. > > --YFE I wonder if this fool knows whether or not Pennsylvania is in the United States of America or not. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:39 PDT 1996 Article: 48491 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Christians 'take it like a man' Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <31dd256d.349323@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d9d63d.9319838@news.pacificnet.net> <4rhbco$m1p@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote: > And excellant analogy of course, no less than I have come to expect of >you. > > But in comparison you will not the difference between my articles on the >homosexual encounter of Jesus and the multiple idols of the Israelites >you will see the same thing. The former gets zero response. The latter >garners all kinds of accusations. This is the special exclusion right that has been self declaired by the self righteous. > > The responses to the latter are as though I posted in in >alt.fundie.christian. > > > From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 5 17:49:40 PDT 1996 Article: 48492 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:34:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote: >-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES- > >THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96 > >BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN >____________________________________________________________________ > > As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley >R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) >website was shutdown from the World Wide Web. The Bradley R. Smith >Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially >encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust. Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at Nizkor. Lots of e-mail to and from the usual, telling each other what a great day it is. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:28 PDT 1996 Article: 48504 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:06:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <31dd4998.4732557@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2c87.2167230@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: >[Herr Moran's gratuitous and habitual insults against the Allies snipped] The reason Mr.VanAlstine has snipped what he calls "gratuitous and habitual insults against the Allies" and has failed to make a case for his charges is obvious. Because he can't. If he could he would have. The rest of Mr.VanAlstine's 315 line response is ignored becasue it lacks relevance to the post, being nothing more than an unnecessary expansion. Anyone who wants to endure reading through it can do so, and then post a point by point argument that it is relevant. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:29 PDT 1996 Article: 48508 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:10:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31dd4c31.5397919@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote: >-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES- > >THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96 > >BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN >____________________________________________________________________ > > As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley >R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) >website was shutdown from the World Wide Web. The Bradley R. Smith >Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially >encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust. Cause for an eventual national holiday in Israel? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:29 PDT 1996 Article: 48509 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: If no lice, then no Holocaust Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:53:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31dd2bcf.1983231@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [Repost] - DACHAU - By Marcus J. Smith State University of New York Press Chapter 19, "The Burial Detail" "Many of the big guns of the Medical Corps are loaded, and on May 3, seventy two hours after our arrival in the camps, the barrage begins that will bring victory against the body lice, the misanthropic, parasitic, insects responsible for the transmission of typhus fever from person to person. The Army has contributed enough DDT so that dusting of all the inmates at Dachau and Allach can start. By a superhuman effort the task is completed in five days. In addition to the inmates. the official quarantine calls for dusting of all other personel - Army personel, guards, visitors, Allied officials - when they leave the inner camp for the outer area. Furthermore, these persons are required to show their immunization records and be given typhus vaccine, unless they have received the vaccine during the previous thirty days. We should like to inoculate the inmates at this time, but such action will have to wait. Despite the mighty resources of the Army, there is insufficient vaccine on hand." So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food supplies were having a tough time getting to the camps, even the Zyklon supply was cut off. And since even the victorious U.S. Army was short on supplies of typhus vaccine, we can understand what kind of problems the Germans would have had getting the vital necessities to the camps while they were undergoing heavy bombardment of their cities, supplies and routes. It also demonstrates that there was a persistent problem with Typhus Fever, caused by lice, and this is why the fumigant Zyklon B was even on the premises of the camps in the first place. If it wasn't for lice, there would be no Zyklon B found, if no Zyklon B found then no agent of mass extermination to identify. If no agent found, no gas stories would have endured. Therefore, if no lice, no "Holocaust". From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:30 PDT 1996 Article: 48521 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:08:40 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31dd4bd5.5305864@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote: >-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES- > >THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96 > >BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN >____________________________________________________________________ > > As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley >R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) >website was shutdown from the World Wide Web. The Bradley R. Smith >Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially >encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust. Champaign corks popping at the Anti-Defamation Committee headquarters today? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:31 PDT 1996 Article: 48523 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law. Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:06:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <31dd2d95.2437571@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 During the American Revolution fighting took place for years. Over the plains and up the mountains, guns, cannons, fire and freezing cold. Men losing their arms, legs and lives. Sons and daughters losing fathers. Wives losing husbands. Friends dying together in mangled lumps. And when it was all over the United States stood before the world with its grand document like no other nation had ever seen before. The Constitution of the United states. This quest for freedom is not something unique to the United States alone, it has been going on for millemnia. In ancient Greece and Rome, and before that, the struggle has been going on. The French Revolution the Magna Carta. Many fighters have died across the ages and the Constitution of the United States is the latest and most significant of the culmination this human struggle. We must recognize these ancient fighters as part of our heritage. Now here we are, 200 and some years after the Revolution and thousands of years after the others with Simon Wiesenthals, ADLs and the like come latelies plying about our nation trying to undo it all. Regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their place at the head of this human history of seeking justice and freedoms for the people, ancient Israel never had such freedoms for their own people under their own government, the truth lies in their two little books. And the history of their activity in the United States is well documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using it to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2% putting out the 100% on how they great they are. Its lucky we have the ACLU with the Jewish leadership out on the front lines defending us. Going to court, raising legal precedences, citing this and that, filing this, making a motion for that. Of course all this is prone to juggling by some magistrate before he or she makes a determination. One person, maybe two or three. One giving here, another giving there. This is the vulnerability of our freedoms if we should allow it to be a legal issue, dependant on the will and competancy of the miniscule. The Constitution of the United States is a philosophical doctrine. It can not be left up to magistrates and senators to make amendments or set limits on the basic tenets as they have been doing with increasing frequency. The Constitution being a philosophical document should be left up to the popular decisions of the people of the nation. It has to be discussed in the same fashion that we would discuss any philosophy. Some talk real democracy, others just use the word. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:32 PDT 1996 Article: 48524 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:58:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31dd2d66.2390610@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [Repost] Hillary Ostrov (Nizkor co-webmaster) alt.revisionism "No Zyklone - then DDT" "Many of us believe that ridicule is the most appropriate response to one who(offers) up thoroughly idiotic questions and responses." 'We at Nizkor will be the ultimate authority on what constitutes "idiotic questions and responses". Actually, it is a childish ploy for evasion. Hilary has never, as far as I know, posted anything of substance. Of course she could come back and post some of her stuff to rebuke this claim. Okay Hillary, go for it. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:32 PDT 1996 Article: 48525 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Some Holocaust Facts Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:07:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31dd2f97.2951285@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] Anywhere from 300,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. The total number of people to have been exterminated by the Nazis during the WWII period is 10 million, 11 million or 12 million. Although none have been found and identified, there are at least 15 mass grave sites where at least 10 thousand people and up to 40,000 and on to 2,000,000 were buried and/or cremated in each one. Regardless of whether or not the 46 identified incinerator chambers at Auschwitz have barely the volume of a refrigerator, 200 people a day could be cremated in each one. Sometimes the whole process was kept in secret, sometimes it wasn't. There were 700,000, 800,000 or 900,000 Jews in Hungary before the war. Somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000 were exterminated at Auschwitz. Even though it was once said there were 700,000 Jews in France before the war and the figure is now put at 70,000, the number of Jews said to have been in Hungary and also found on the same list as the 700,000 French, the figure for the Hungarian Jews still stands. Any eye witness accounts and testimony for the Holocaust story supercede any against it. Any discrepancies or contradictions found in eyewitness testimonies should not be looked on with suspicion. Questioning the Holocaust story is an act of hate and those do are "neo-Nazis" and "anti-Semitic". Even though many revisions to the Holocaust story have taken place, with many of the old accounts being generally recognized as lies, any surviving accounts are to be accepted unconditionally. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:33 PDT 1996 Article: 48548 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:38:43 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 53 Message-ID: <31dd6063.10567679@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-7.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: Below we have the first commnert from Nizkor. Jamie's concern is totally focused on whether or not this affair will give "martyrdom" status to Bradely Smith's site. He most defitenly doesn't have a problem the acts connection to our First Amendment. >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >> Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at Nizkor. Lots >> of e-mail to and from the usual, telling each other what a great day >> it is. > >Au contraire. I'm composing a reply to one of DvdThomas's articles >from a day or two ago, but now, with the fuss that's going to result, >he has the perfect excuse to ignore what I'm going to say. It's a >frustrating annoyance for me (just as it is for them, though not to >the same degree of course). > >Plus, they get to claim martyr status, and there's no really good >counterargument to that (assuming their provider didn't have a good >reason for kicking them off). I imagine CODOH is quite happy over >earning the right to put a big "CENSORED" banner in red letters at the >top of their home page, when their next site gets set up. Not to >mention the nice-sounding rhetoric that Mr. Smith can put into his >newsletters for the next six to twelve months. "Dear Friends, it was >a harrowing experience on the internet this month, when on the day of >our nation's independence, the First Amendment was stricken a cruel >blow..." > >Whether they think the martyrdom is worth the extra work it'll take to >move the site, I don't know. If I were in their position, I'd >probably be celebrating -- being censored is a red badge of courage >for revisionists. > >What I do know is that it's an annoying situation for me and for >Nizkor. From our perspective, nothing really changes. They get >kicked off one provider, so they move the site to another and start up >again. Big deal. They have to do a lot of work to update their site, >we have to do a little work to update ours (mental note: edit ftp.pl >to autocorrect URLs to whatever their new site will be, and search >/web for valleynet\.com). Life will go on pretty much as usual, >except now they'll have that big red "CENSORED" banner. > >Posted; emailed to CODOHmail@aol.com. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:34 PDT 1996 Article: 48555 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:47:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 71 Message-ID: <31dd6263.11080075@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199612343251@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dd2517.262925@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610075416@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-7.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31dd2517.262925@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> >>>Message-ID: <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tom Moran wrote: >>> >>> Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are >>> "Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how >>> Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion. >>> >>> OK, here is another example: >>> >> >> Mr.Mittleman's simple inclusion of the identified post deleted. > > Note that Tommy does not want us to see what he wrote. It is included > again below. Mr.Mittleman implies that the readers are too stupid to know that deleted material is right here in the thread. How would Moran go about hiding the martterial? He could cancel the article. But then it is already in the devices of others computers from which he couldn't extract it. Of course it was included in response posts, which Moran wouldn't have any control over. All those things, and Mr.Mittleman says Moran is trying to cover up. > >>>In article <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net>, >>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >> >> To which he simply says: >> >>> "Fish in a barrel, Zeyde." >> >> Evidentally Mr.Mittleman has a problem with the empirical >>approach to determining something. What he sees it as is, all he has >>to do is say something, and it is so. Mr.Mittleman has offered nothing >>to show whatever he uses as examples is proof of his accusations. He's >>so curt. > > The text that Tommy clipped out of his response comes from > <31dbfd7e.3653171@news.pacificnet.net> in which tm@pacificnet.net (tom > moran) writes... > > Jeruselm One should stay out of our buisness. We don't need their > Zionist practices over here any more than what we have already. > > The facts are, not only can it be shown that nothing good for the > us or the World has ever come from our support for the Jewish > state, but that the only thing that could be shown is that it has > been a disaster for the U.S., and the World. All they have are > words and nothing else. > > I think the HATRED and anti-semitism are self-evident in the post. I > don't think it requires any additional analysis. If there are any > lurkers out there who disagree with me, please speak up. > > And Tommy suspects as much himself. Why else would he have clipped it > out of his reply up above? > > This little zeyde is a mean hateful bigot, an anti-semite, and a liar. > Marty Kelly has demonstrated this in his analysis of Tommy's posts. > Yale Edieken has demonstrated this and challanged Tommy to take him to > arbitration should Tommy disagree. But Tommy doesn't. This little > zeyde knows he would lose and lose big. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:35 PDT 1996 Article: 48611 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!nwgw.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:51:04 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 49 Message-ID: <31dd635f.11332016@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4rhg1v$6ga@news.enter.net> <31dd255d.333449@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610112552@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-7.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31dd255d.333449@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: >> >>>> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >>> >>>> >The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers >>>> > >>>> >This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to >>>> >bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects >>>> >along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their >>>> >students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone >>>> >who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies. >>> >>> >>>> Who do these people think they are getting involved with the >>>> American education system? >>> >>> Last time I looked, the University of Pennsylvania was located in >>>*gasp* Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It was just west of the Schuykill River and >>>just south of Market Street. What right anybody from California has to protest a >>>private university located in Pennsylvania and with a 230 year history of >>>involvement in education in Pennsylvania writing a guide for Pennsylvania >>>teachers is beyond me. >>> >>> --YFE >> >> I wonder if this fool knows whether or not Pennsylvania is in the >>United States of America or not. > > I wonder if the zeyde fool realizes that his own post up above shows > that the University of Pennsylvania was recommending curriculum only > for the State of Pennsylvania. It was the zeyde fool who > mis-interpreted this to mean "the American education system." It was > the zeyde fool who is having trouble with his geography here. Evidentally Mr.Mittleman doesn't think that precedences set in one state can spread to other states. Pennsylvania is in the United States of America. Perhaps when Mr.Mittleman gets through going over this fraction of the post he'll dare to go onto and make comment on the other majority portion. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 08:01:36 PDT 1996 Article: 48613 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:34:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: <31dd5fb8.10396478@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-7.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at ># Nizkor. > >I will not party. Smith is a truly repulsive person, but he >should be allowed to have his web site. To the best of my >knowledge, and from reading this group, everybody in "Nizkor" >disagrees with this kind of action. But one can expect Moran >to lie about this - we know who we're dealing with here: a liar >and forger. > >Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe >in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people >have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here >in the open, for all the world to see. > > >-Danny Keren. We can only wait to see what action you or Nizkor will take to challenge this iniquous slashing of our 1st Amendment. > > > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 12:41:03 PDT 1996 Article: 48643 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law. Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:56:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 129 Message-ID: <31de700a.691725@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2d95.2437571@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610570486@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE > >In <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tommy the zeyde wrote: > > Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are "Tom > Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how Mr.Mittleman > would go about supporting his conclusion. > > Here is a third exaple of Tom Moran's posting of hate: > >In article <31dd2d95.2437571@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... > >> Now here we are, 200 and some years after the Revolution and >>thousands of years after the others with Simon Wiesenthals, ADLs and >>the like come latelies plying about our nation trying to undo it all. >> Regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their place >>at the head of this human history of seeking justice and freedoms for >>the people, ancient Israel never had such freedoms for their own >>people under their own government, the truth lies in their two little >>books. This is in reply to Mittleman's below where he has put things into his own words to be responded to. Inspite of the Jews trying to imply prominence in the American Revolution (Cal.Gov. Pete Wilson as a Senator tried to introduce a bill to erect a statue to some remote Revolutionary character said to have been Jewish, boastings that some guy named Solomon from Philly financed the war, and machinations of Paul Reveres commanding officer being Jewish) the Jews role in the American Revolution was of such an extent it doesn't merit mention. Full page ads by Jewish organizations tell us how they are at the forefront of civil rights. The two little books mentioned are the "O.T." including the Torah and the wicked Talmud. As to their trying to undo all that was gained during our American Revolution, Jews are working hard in consort to undo those freedoms, basically the First Amendment. Seems that 99% of the complaints that come out against free speech come from this group that makes up 1 or 2 percent of our population. They say they are fighting "hate" when in fact they are only really concerned with stifling free speech on the Holocaust and U.S. relations with Israel, and Zionist practices. Whatever Mr.Mittleman raves about Jewish individuals being here and there says nothing about what they do when acting in consort for their own benefit. Are Jews trying to control our modes of communication? Yes. Just look at their activity with the net. They seem to be the only ones who have the biggest beef. The one or two percent having the 99% problem. Hollywood? Well this doesn't need any comment. News papers? Seems half the voices that appear on our editorials are Jewish. The one or two percent having at least 50% of the voice. Lobbies for special consideration in Washington? A couple of hundred organizations for plying around the capitol. Books? "The Dare to Speak Out" by ex-Senator Paul Findley, and a myriad of others. History in general? The most repeated history in the history of the world. >And the history of their activity in the United States is well >>documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using it >>to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2% >>putting out the 100% on how they great they are. > > I think this stands on its own. But Tommy wants to see analysis: > > He writes, "regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their > place at the head of this human history..." And just what do the Jews > self proclaim? Tommy has no quotes to offer. And even if Tommy offers > a quote from one Jew, Tommy has no way to demonstrate that the words of > one Jew represent all Jews (or even a majority). The generalization of > a whole from a single (unsupported!) example is evidence of at the very > least faulty reasoning. And, in context with the rest of what the > zeyde has to say, in all liklihood hatred of Jews. > > He write, "the truth lies in their two little books." Frankly, I have > no idea what two books the zeyde is referring to here. The Old > Testiment and the Talmud? Whichever, why is he using the dimunitive > "little"? Are the books physically small? Or is he in some way saying > that the books have little meaning, little value, little worth? If the > latter, this is unsupported by anything posted above - probably off > topic to the post - and hateful. > > He writes: "And the history of their activity in the United States is > well documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using > it to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2% > putting out the 100% on how they great they are." > > The hisory is, in fact, well documented. Jewish veterens of every > American war. Jewish captains of industry and commerce. Jewish > policemen, firefighters, and medical care giver. Jewish Cabinet > members and congressmen. Jewish teachers, researchs and scientist. In > all, Jews have participated along side non-Jews for the entire history > of our country. Jews, as a community, have a strong history of > participation in the political process. Jews, as a community, have > taken a strong interest in charitable organizations. Jews, as > individuals and a community, have been active in civil and human rights > movements. In all, Jews have participated along side non-Jews for the > entire history of our country. If this is the documented history Tommy > is talking about, then wonderful. If Tommy is hinting at some other > documented history, then it flies in the face of what the vast majority > of Americans know. And he ought to show his documentation - not merely > make insinuations. Why, that would only be hateful. > > Tommy says that Jews are tenacious to control our modes of > communication. Is that true? I so how true is it, Tommy? And don't > stop at just naming a few names. Show us how those few names > manipulate the non-Jews who have control of some media. Show us how > those few names act in concert to the same end. Show us how they use > it to sell us on Israel. Show us how and why the 98% non-Jews - > including many who are powerful in their own right - are powerless to > stop this, or atleastexpose it. Why, making such an assertion without > being able to at least demonstrate the plausibility o it would be > hateful. > > And show us how American Jews hold Israel as their one and only > allegiance. When protestents (a few, certainly not all) suggested that > John Kennedy shouldn't be President because his allegiance was to the > Pope before it was to the constitution, many many Americans called that > "politics of hate" and denounced the sentiment. Tell us why this is > not an identical "politics of hate" you are preaching here, zeyde. > > And while you are at it, don't forget the evidence to support your > assertions about Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 12:41:04 PDT 1996 Article: 48644 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated' Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:00:57 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 188 Message-ID: <31de713b.996449@news.pacificnet.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify >about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered >were 120 children from the village of Zamosc). > >All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the >Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men >who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also >participated in the gassing operations). > >Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by >the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January >1945 (p. 153-4): >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with >injections were begun in 1942. > >"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I >know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They >looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came >phenolic acid". These Germans always seem to have to experiment with the most basic of procedures and substances, like when they were trying to figure out how much Zyklon B would have to used. > >First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart: >"I assume that the intravenous method took too long". > >"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many >people were the victims of such injections?" > >"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people >were killed in this fashion". > >First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not >hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round- >about way". > >"Who did the killing?" > >"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order - >Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent >man and were surprised that he did it". > Actually this may be the only part of the Holocaust story I might possibly believe as to Auschwitz, Euthanasia killings. To what extent and under what kind of conditions is a field in its self. > >Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71): >------------------------------------------ >"How did you kill these prisoners?" >"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart". > > >SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79): >----------------------------------------------------------------- >According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial >hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections >in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into >the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal >injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran >away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant, >murdered the remaining 80 children. "Pretrial" - "hearing"? > >"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks. >"That is exaggerated. It isn't true". > >Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the >children, panic-stricken, had screamed. > >"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected >nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated". > >The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions >who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had >that the children may have feared death. > > >Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the >Zamosc children (p. 152): >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led >into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe >came; I still remember that". > >Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment; >nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the >heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the >washroom. > >"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and >left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining >children". > > >Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8): >--------------------------------------------------- >"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his >own authority?" > >"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000". For a while, the testimony was getting to me. Then it gets to exaggerated to handle. "10,000"? >[...] > >But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in >Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity >of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up >between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of >Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing >outside. There were more than 100". > >He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We >thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off >in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him >stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took >over. Hantl finished the murder of the children". > >Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186): >---------------------------------------- >Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the >"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings >with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner >hospital. > >"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with >phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of >justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last- >named behaved like saints compared to Klehr". > >[...] > >The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the >Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the >children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was >decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them >into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where >the played and were given food by older prisoners. "After a few weeks, it was decided to kill them as well"? What was the inital intent? To keep them there? Doesn't make sense the German would have even considered it going by the general Holocaust story. >"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of >us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed? >Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end". > >Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where >almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr >from the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain >behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner >took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them >with his phenol injection. > >"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long >time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would >take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The >first ones had screamed with terror in the room". > >"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then >continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I >helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a >state of complete collapse". > > > Well, this guy Klehr got his, but what about those other ones that got only 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 years. Well maybe the trial after the origianl "pretrial hearing" discovered some exaggerating had taken place. To bad this is just "quotes from book" and not a more direct route of posting the evidence in a more professional manner. >The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to >4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had >served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a >free man. > >-Danny Keren. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 12:41:05 PDT 1996 Article: 48653 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Remember the Children" Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:51:24 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 80 Message-ID: <31de6e70.282094@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620395531@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d913fe.2249453@news.pacificnet.net> <31dd2578.359978@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610152261@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31dd2578.359978@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >> >>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >>> >>>>In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>>>> >>>>> "Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted >>>>>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It >>>>>is displayed on the inside and on the outside. >> >>Mittleman: >>>> When did you visit the Museum? >> >> >>Moran: >>> August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had >>>to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I >>>returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour >>>interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins >>>were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw >>>how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away, >>>on the spot. Check them out next time you go there. >> >> >>Moran: >>> Do you have anything to say about the post directly? >> >> >>Moran: >> Since he didn't come back, I guess Mittleman couldn't do it. > > No, in fact I didn't have anything to say about this post directly. I > didn't think you stated anything worth commenting on. I thank you for > responding to my question about whether you had visited the museum. > > Now, you might consider offering some support for your assertion that > historians have changed their interpretation of whether both Buchenwald > and Bergen-Belson were extermination camps or not. it has been awhile > now that you have been avoiding this and some of your precious lurkers > might begin to sense you are being less than fully forthcoming with > them, zeyde. I don't know to what degree "percious lurkers" might be following what everever your focused on. I don't have any problem with lurkers. I treat them with respect. You can point out whatever you want to point out, and by so doing you can expose yourself. Maybe along with the clarification I'm going to ask you for right now, you would like to explain why you are bringing up a topic that was from another post that has nothing to do with what is at hand. I believe you have included it with a response to another unrelated post also. ================ First I will clarify my position. I say that in the early years after the war, even unto into the fifties, Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald were put forth in publications as being extermination camps, and at this time these camps are held as never having been extermination camps. Now if you have some special application that you need as to "historians" that is your specialty. I don't think I ever mentioned the word "historians". I'll clarify the specifics as to what I am talking about as, referrences in any kind of publication that posed these two camps as extermination camps. As to their status right now, I would refer you to the Simon Wiesenthal Center site, "Response to Revisionist Arguments", No.12. "Didn't Simon wiesenthal himself state that there were no extermination camps in Germany?" We will notice that Simon Wiesenthal did not word it like 'Isn't it true that at one time camps in Germany, including Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald, were once put forth as being extermination camps and now this past assertion is not held, even by Mr.Wiesenthal himself?' Maybe you can employ some special cant to say why Wiesenthal would even heve a question like this. > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:20 PDT 1996 Article: 48715 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <31de6ffe.679587@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <4reu6r$d4c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 sf924@aol.com (SF924) wrote: >You people do HATE. You hate Jews, Blacks, immigrants and hispanics. > >What I can't fathom is why the hell you deny it. Hitler never denied that >he hated Jews to the core. Hitler believed that all of society's ills lay >at the feet of the Jews. Hitler transformed himself from a "weak-kneed >cosmopolitan" to an anti-semite. > >You act like there is something wrong with hating Jews. Are you too >ashamed to hate Jews? No wonder this 'person' uses a goofy alias. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:21 PDT 1996 Article: 48716 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31de6fe9.659100@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> <31da9615.5257091@news.pacificnet.net> <4rk6eb$f74@access4.digex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mstein@access4.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote: > Yes, Tommy, but you also recalled some Jewish group trying to get the >menorah declared a secular symbol. I recall a Tommy bluster about how >we were all going to be sorry when you found your documentation. But >you never did, did you? Instead we found out that what you thought was >a Jewish group was the KKK, and the argument that the menorah could be >secular _lost_. > > You also recalled Hilary Ostrov having some article published in some >newspaper. And that recollection was false. So you will excuse me if I >don't trust your memory very much. As to how much of your post is true to facts or cited wording, I don't know at this time. I do thank you for endorsing my other 100+ posts by not having to say and always concentrating on these two. Thanks - again. > >-- >Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. >POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official >Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:22 PDT 1996 Article: 48717 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Revisionism Defined Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31de7004.685793@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rk1ov$74m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 brlhagen@aol.com (Brlhagen) wrote: >Revisionism Accurately Defined >-submitted for the edification of all >by Bruce Hagen > >A PRECIS OF HOLOCAUST REVISIONISM An excellent work. Tom Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:23 PDT 1996 Article: 48718 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:56:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <31de70a4.845625@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > The Holocaust promotional network's pet word. A recent ballpark count of how many times the word "hate" appears in Nizkor files shows 234 occurances. A full count would probably show something like 10 X that many. Tommorrow I think I'll type "hate" into some search facility to see what happens. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:23 PDT 1996 Article: 48719 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Remember the Children" Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 92 Message-ID: <31dec767.15997235@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620395531@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d913fe.2249453@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6e70.282094@news.pacificnet.net> <6JUL199608151425@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: It is obvious you are deranged Mr.Mittleman. Your a waste of time. Its also obvious that you post things from one article to another in order to try and take attention off the topic at hand. This is the last address you get. The only thing that will be forthcoming to any of your posts that are directed to me will be referrals to a post containing a connotated recap of this sequence and a few other examples of your foolish practices that will show your imput as being absolutely useless and not meriting any response. >In article <31de6e70.282094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> >>> Now, you might consider offering some support for your assertion that >>> historians have changed their interpretation of whether both Buchenwald >>> and Bergen-Belson were extermination camps or not. it has been awhile >>> now that you have been avoiding this and some of your precious lurkers >>> might begin to sense you are being less than fully forthcoming with >>> them, zeyde. >> >> I don't know to what degree "percious lurkers" might be following >>what everever your focused on. I don't have any problem with lurkers. >>I treat them with respect. You can point out whatever you want to >>point out, and by so doing you can expose yourself. Maybe along with >>the clarification I'm going to ask you for right now, you would like >>to explain why you are bringing up a topic that was from another post >>that has nothing to do with what is at hand. I believe you have >>included it with a response to another unrelated post also. >> ================ >> >> First I will clarify my position. I say that in the early years >>after the war, even unto into the fifties, Bergen-Belsen and >>Buchenwald were put forth in publications as being extermination >>camps, and at this time these camps are held as never having been >>extermination camps. > > Can your provide any specific pointers to a publication that did this > so I can see for myself that these camps were called extermination > camps? > >> Now if you have some special application that you need as to >>"historians" that is your specialty. I don't think I ever mentioned >>the word "historians". I'll clarify the specifics as to what I am >>talking about as, referrences in any kind of publication that posed >>these two camps as extermination camps. > > I note that you did not say "historian" in your initial post. The > distinction is important to me. Sometimes Journalists get the > terminology - and the facts - wrong when they write about the > Holocaust. Just as you have seen journalists say 4,000,000 died at > Auschwitz, I too have seen the same thing. Historians sometimes, but > very rarely, make such blatant mistakes. > > So, I would like to see for myself which publications made these > statements. I would like to determine for myself whether [a] there was > a change in what was conventionally presented to have happened in the > Holocaust, [b] usage of terminology changed over time (did they > actually say extermination, or did they say killing or gassing or some > other such thing), [c] that it was written by a journalist who got the > facts screwed up, or [d] no such publication as you claim exists. > >> As to their status right now, I would refer you to the Simon >>Wiesenthal Center site, "Response to Revisionist Arguments", No.12. >>"Didn't Simon wiesenthal himself state that there were no >>extermination camps in Germany?" We will notice that Simon Wiesenthal >>did not word it like 'Isn't it true that at one time camps in Germany, >>including Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald, were once put forth as being >>extermination camps and now this past assertion is not held, even by >>Mr.Wiesenthal himself?' > > Correct, there were no "extermination camps" in Germany. The > extermination camps were in the East in Poland. There were many camps > in Germany but these were concentration camps. Some people died in > these German camps. There were limited experiments with gassing, there > probably were limited experiments with human soap, so some people did > but in general these were not extermination camps. > >> Maybe you can employ some special cant to say why Wiesenthal >>would even heve a question like this. > > Yes. It is a common denier tactic to say that "even Simon Wiesenthal > claims there were no extermination camps in Germany during WW II." If > a denier makes the above statement with no qualifier that the > extermination camps were in Poland, it appears to the naive reader that > Simon Wiesenthal is admitting that there were no extermination camps. > SWC has the question and answer in place to address this denier point. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:24 PDT 1996 Article: 48725 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Poster's Progress" (Was Hate Hate Hate ....) Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:25:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31de7570.2073913@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199609415098@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> <31dd25e8.472080@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610294072@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4rlaq1$g7t@atlas.uniserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: > >The Topic, introduced by Mr. Moran (who later in the thread - or >perhaps elsewhere - expressed his pride in the number of posts under >this thread), was entitled "Nizkor Invite Accepted" [circa Nov. >10/95] The full text of the post to which I was responding is >available on Nizkor. [All parenthetical comments below in original] Summary of what went on in this post is, Jamie McCarthy, one time co-webmaster of Nizkor sent me some e-mail accepting a critique of Nizkor. I posted "Nizkor Invite Accepted". It ended up as a long thread where the whole Nizkor staff and their blind followers all bantering about between each other passing recipes and asking Moran, where are the "URLs" to referrences I made to Nizkor, even though their own directions in the website refer people to "links" and you can't get a URL until you click one up. As it turned out, "Nizkor Invite Accepted" never was really accepted. Hilary has supplied the path for this exchange. I don't know if it is all there or not. Generally the dossiers on people in Nizkor files are pieces of threads. Anyway Hilary has challenged people to look it up. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48732 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:51:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And Hilary just keeps going and going. > The Best of Nizkor; > > Hilary Ostrov representing, > Her latest 7/5/1996 In <4rj43b$36ea@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie Farber) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >> >> "Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses" >> N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996 >article snipped: >Tommy opines: >> Well, 600,000 Jews killed? Well, sometimes its 500,000, and >>sometimes is 400,000, and sometimes 200,000. >Bernie Farber responds: >No Mr. Moron, only in your feverish and confused mind. QED ... almost daily. >It is typical of Holocust deniers to obfuscate, lie and bend the facts. Indeed .... QED ... definitely daily. >Time to give up the ghost. So did you, too, detect the occasional hand of a ghost-writer behind the Moranic keyboard of late? Posted/e-mailed hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:26 PDT 1996 Article: 48733 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31de6f67.528708@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31090DAF.650@kaiwan.com> <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what >you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what >you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your >claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical >material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves >you're lying. What the former professor is saying here is about the same thing he came to say after the first post, only there he was raving about "Moronic mathematics". I then pressed him for a mathematical rebuttal but he just kept slinking off to the "Moronic mathematical" kid stuff. As is evident and existing in the post itself is the figuring was done on numbers he gave himself. It is the record of the post that I gave the Holocaust promotional side a righteous accomodation on the numbers I used. As I finally was driven to do by the insulting evasions of the former professor in the previous two postings, I will give the numbers not giving the side any accomodation. Using the "40" number supplied by the former professor, that would be evaporated in the first half hour, and using a 5 minute time for the killing to take place, and not stretching any numbers in favor for the Holoaust story, the amount that would be used and/or needed to kill the people would be more like 7 1/2% with 92 1/2% left over, not used, not necessary, making the allegation it was used for the purpose idiotic. The former professor here, is the same onetime professor that said he was going to post the Degesch (makers of Zyklon B) patent and manual, which would tell all, which he hasn't done to this day, months later. Instead of alluding to a previous "technical material", he should be just presenting it and then we could go from there. The only thing that comes of the former professor's persistance in challenging the simple mathematical conclusions with his belches of "lies" is to further draw repeated attention to his own shortcomings. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:27 PDT 1996 Article: 48734 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Can Tom Moran Read? (Re: Racism in Holocaust books) Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <31de6fce.631967@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># V. Raul Hilberg, ># "The Destruction of European Jews" ># ># "On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to ># Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police ># Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the ># Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a ># postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled ># laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so ># to speak, nonexistent'". ># Stupid Russians. > >Unless you misquoted the text, it's obvious that Hilberg is quoting >the German officer, not giving his opinion. > ># Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White ># Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant" > >See above. Who is making the claim? Hilberg? Or is he quoting the >German officer? Why? And how do we know any truth of the quote? Now why would Hilberg include this in his book? And why did you not address the other examples? Was it because you couldn't think of an angle like the above? >Have you considered the possibility that you are senile, and that >you cannot understand simple written text? Maybe it's time to join >Giwer and retire? > > >-Danny Keren. > > > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:28 PDT 1996 Article: 48735 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:42 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <31de6fe1.650366@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rj7ov$5sk@news-e2b.gnn.com> <31dd275c.844581@news.pacificnet.net> <31dd5fb8.10396478@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: ># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > >## Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe >## in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people >## have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here >## in the open, for all the world to see. > "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum". From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 17:02:28 PDT 1996 Article: 48736 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:53:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <31de7b84.3629938@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 "Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations" L.A.Times, July 6, 1996 "Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the country's own Jewish community. Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is 'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it. The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000 inreparations, ...." The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as having a beef with the order. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 18:42:40 PDT 1996 Article: 48746 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:59:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 86 Message-ID: <31de70ac.854193@news.pacificnet.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction >department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943 >[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe, >1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159] >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in >the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The >planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar >on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing >cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has >been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation >should be ready by February 20th. Of course this letter, or piece of letter as it may be, says nothing about any extermination of people. It does say something about a "gassing cellar" which would make sense since lice were a big problem and there were many people in the complex. As happens so often with evidence submitted for the Holocaust story it raises questions about other points of the story. We can see that it says something about "restrictions" in the rail service, which shows the Germans were stretched in that department, which further raises questions about all those rails said to have been used to carry the numbers of people said to have been railed about, especially when there were war needs at the forefornt for consideration. > >Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943 >[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac, >the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434] >----------------------------------------------------------------- > ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door >100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to >the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of >Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of >double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame. Ah yes Pressac, the pharmicist. Well, if we have gassing cellars, tha no one said were for humans, we should have sealable doors. > > >Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler >estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours >in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 25 1943 >[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac, >the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247] >------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1.) Crematorium I > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 3 x 2 muffles 340 persons > > 2.) Crematorium II > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons > > 3.) Crematorium III > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons > > 4.) Crematorium IV > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 8 muffles 768 persons > > 5.) Crematorium V > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > 8 muffles 768 persons > > >(See > >ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/pub/nizkor/camps/auschwitz/images/Furn_cap.jpg > >for a photo of this document). This is pretty funny. See "photo of this document". What about the text, period. Where is it here? Pieces of testimony, pieces of documents, fuzzy photos. Thats the way it goes with all the evidence the former professor submits. > > >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 20:52:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48755 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:13:08 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 6 Message-ID: <31de7421.1739255@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2d66.2390610@news.pacificnet.net> <4rlfjo$hq4@atlas.uniserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: >Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive >ploys, Mr. Moran. Who is "we" Hilary? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 20:52:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48756 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:32:37 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31de7777.2592954@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199609415098@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608132479@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dd25e8.472080@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: >Well, I suppose one could _also_ point his rigii at: > >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom These people are always directing the reader to the above, instead of posting any incriminating material right out here. The Nizkor files are in total disarray. For anyone wanting to have a look at any of Moran's stuff, unchopped up into pieces of threads like Nizkor's, can go to Deja News on the Internet and enter "Tom Moran". > >Mark > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes >not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but >right through every human heart--and all human hearts." > >-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago" >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 20:52:26 PDT 1996 Article: 48758 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:34:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: More of Hilary, 7/6/1996 "Indeed, Mr. Mittleman, you and Mr. Kelley would appear to be excellent teachers! Just the other day I was perusing my documentation for "The Morphing of Tom Moran." [I'm sorry to report, btw, that both the NY and LA Times have rejected this serialized manuscript - to which I offered them first rights. They said my writing was great, but that - despite all the documented evidence provided in my text - none of their respective readers would ever believe that such a twit actually exists in either the real or the virtual world] Lest we not *fully* appreciate just how _far_ Mr. Moran has come since his pre-literacy phase, I offer the following repost of my response to one of his earlier "efforts." " From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 20:52:27 PDT 1996 Article: 48759 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Push, push, push Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:10:36 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <31de8097.4928365@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608115015@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbfe0c.3795921@news.pacificnet.net> <4rk671$c5d@grivel.une.edu.au> <6JUL199607331703@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: >>: Mr.Mittleman says it was only the older population that was sent >>: to Auschwitz and only the teenagers were left behind. >>: >>: Back to bed Mr.Mittleman. > > No zeyde, your reading comprehension is failing you again. What I did > was present you with a testimony from the railway platform inside of > Auschwitz where the woman (Marianne F.) said that those under 14 and > over 35 were being put in one line and were then taken ot the gas > chambers while the remainder (between 14 and 35) were put in another > line, taken to a real shower, and admitted to the camp. This is what Mr.Mittleman said, "Not surprising since most of the survivors would have been teens or young adults in 1945. The older population was put to death for the most part." Whether or not this is the "testimony" of the person or Mr.Mittleman's remarks is evident. He didn't mention any "testimony". What he is saying now through the "testimony" is that people between 14 and 35 are those "teens or young adults" he was referring to. > > All of these people were already at Auschwitz. I didn't write anything > about how people were selected to get on the train. (Personally, I am > unaware of a selection process at that end.) > > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 6 22:37:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48780 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon? Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 18:06:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 73 Message-ID: <31deaac4.8665901@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net> <31DDD98A.3518@unb.ca> <4rm3i1$mr5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.45 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote: An amazing post by Ken McVay. Truely McVay, my compliments to you. >In article <31DDD98A.3518@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison wrote: >>Daniel Keren wrote: > >>> What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and >>> over again? > >>He wants to be the new Dan Gannon? > >Fat chance! He's got the whiney part down pretty fine, but he >hasn't yet learned to: > >1. Call everyone who disagrees a VILE LITTLE LIAR! >2. Post the same article, (we recommend a 50K IHR tract), to 80 > newsgroups at the same time, >3. Irritate ISPs to the point where none of them will provide > you with an account, then >4. Claim you have been censored and "banished" from the > Internet. (Use the Internet to make this claim.) >5. Provide sexually explicit material on your bbs and > run it as a commercial operation when you discover it is > less taxing intellectually than "Holocaust scholarship" >6. Use at least three pseudonyms at the same time, but > make each one say VILE LITTLE LIAR at least once a day >7. Threaten local gay businessmen/women, post their names > and addresses on the Internet at least twice, and > suggest that people "call them up and tell them what > you think of..." them, in the hope they will go out > of business. Do this in the name of free speech and > democracy and hope no one will notice the contradiction. >8. Have your very own "alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum" > newsgroup created. If others won't do it for you, > scream "I am not a NAZI you VILE LITTLE LIAR!" and > do it yourself. >9. Explain that Negroes have smaller brains than everyone > else. >10. Show photographs of dead bodies hanging from nails, > claim they are doctored because you can't see any rope. > >Tommy hasn't even begun to score points yet on the Gannon >Scale of InterNet Abuse. Neither has Giwer, although Giwer has >managed to achieve something Gannon did not. > >The real key to "being Gannon" is to accept the fact that >"revisionism" is a lost cause, and flog sex instead.... all, >of course, in the name of free speech. > >Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only >interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially >plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while >accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to >see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when >they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally >conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual >integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and >respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to >URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ > >Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's >special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be >appropriately ignored. > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ >-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Giwer Bait Sold Here > |-------------------------------------- > http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 7 09:54:05 PDT 1996 Article: 48788 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: INTERNET SHOCKER from GORE --->> Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:13 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <31dec76f.16005145@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rm3sn$joo@nntp1.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jdulaney@nntp.best.com (John Dulaney) wrote: > IF GORE is FOR the INTERNET we MUST realize the TERRIBLE TRUTH: > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > AS..... > Internet Access Providers are bought up, one-by-one, by larger > corps. and pressure is brought to bare we can only imagine that > POLITICAL WEB PAGES, NEWSGROUPS, FTP sites etc. will be > > REMOVED/KILLED/CENSORED and/or CANCELED - possibly their authors > --------------------------------------- > harassed, arrested or set-up and killed. All in the name of > National Security. > ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ > (Even now FBI infiltrators may have been behind the violence in > most or all of the "militia" movements - with more "terrorist > acts" propagated by these FBI men to come until Martial Law is "a > regrettable final option". Then D-Calif. Tom Lantos-types can use > Tom's favorite word "terminate" on us all.) > Another 1 in 10,000 who is aware and willing to speak out. Thank you for this post. Tom Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 7 09:54:05 PDT 1996 Article: 48790 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 32 Message-ID: <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-24.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Yet another idiotic, inconsequential meaningless response from Hilary. July 6, 1996 " Noting however that in his time here Ehrlich has made countless errors of fact that are clearly wrong, numerous claims that he refuses to substantiate and expresses opinions which, although contrary to known facts, he excuses under the rubric of skepticism (possibly because his books are in the attic), I conclude that his text should be used with extreme care and that, when so doing, it's affinity to the party line of "revisionism" and its errors should be clearly stated. In addition, if we are going to give Ehrlich any credence, we should bear in mind that the archives of this newsgroup are littered with threads that he has left dangling - while questions addressed to him remain unanswered and refutations of his arguments are unacknowledged. Finally, we should recognize that the posting behaviour of a boorish foul-mouthed troll for at least Ehrlich and DvdThomas is totally acceptable and that they imagine he is worthy of respect. " hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:19 PDT 1996 Article: 48853 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:44:17 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31dfbe6b.728195@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31de7b84.3629938@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >"Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations" > L.A.Times, July 6, 1996 > >"Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the >anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the >country's own Jewish community. > Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is >'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it. > The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the >Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000 >inreparations, ...." > > The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as >having a beef with the order. Seems that maybe more and more people around the world are starting to become aware of Holocaust revisionism and are taking a closer look. Once the full recognition takes place and the global acceptance is the majority, then there will be the looking back phase. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:19 PDT 1996 Article: 48856 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 14:09:36 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 6 Message-ID: <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and pastes her own. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:20 PDT 1996 Article: 48884 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <31e02f22.10602062@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And yet another. 7/7/96 The Giwer-troll provides further corroboration of Mike Stein's assessment in another thread that he (the troll) lacks the intellect, intelligence or comprehension skills to be able to contribute in any meaningful way in a discussion of the history of the Holocaust. If anything is laughable it is that the troll deludes himself by thinking that he is capable of participating in any debate. [balance snipped] hro From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:21 PDT 1996 Article: 48885 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:01 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <31e02f27.10607445@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And another 7/7/96 I do recall seeing approximately two such mild rebukes from Ehrlich. But hardly anything that I would consider a reflection of one who has a strong distaste for expression by others of anti-Semitic/racist sentiments. Then again, perhaps Ehrlich has his own definition of anti-Semitism. Perhaps he would care to share with us his definition as well as reposting these purported criticisms. Just to refresh our memory. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:22 PDT 1996 Article: 48886 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <4rp9oq$15r@atlas.uniserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: >In <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote: > >>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >> Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other >>threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her >>ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and >>pastes her own. > >Hmmm ... very interesting Mr. Moran. I suppose you think I must be >absolutely *crushed* by your characterization of my posting behaviour. >Well, I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but I rather think that your >comments, insults and "descriptions" tell us _far_ more about _you_ >and _your_ abilities (or lack thereof) than they do about me or mine. This is absolutely poetic. Here we have a post dedicated as a repository for her comments and insults and she comes back with a hidious complaint about it by referring to comment on her stuff as "insults". IDIOT. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:22 PDT 1996 Article: 48887 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And ol' Hilary just keeps rolling and rolling along. 7/7/96 Hmmm ... and would this be called "The Rule of Tom's Thumb" or "Tom's Rule of Thumb"? "Revisionist scholarship". Amazing! Simply amazing! hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:23 PDT 1996 Article: 48948 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:33 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <31e0328c.11475864@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And yet another. We might think Hilary could be getting a note form the Big Mommy telling her to fall back into the shadows. I mean what kind of organization would want what Hilary is putting out to represent them. 7/7/96 Setting aside the fact that the perceived _colour_ of the pellets has little bearing (in fact none that I can see) on the reality of the _use_ of pellets, it is also possible that differences in perception of colour can be attributed to a variant of colour-blindness. If memory serves me correctly, the incidence of colour-blindness in males is approximately 1:10. (There is considerable literature available addressing this issue.) [text deleted for brevity] >======================= >Hilary Ostrov >e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com >http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ >Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:24 PDT 1996 Article: 48949 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A Pointed Question from the Denier in Search of a Persona (Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding) Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:36 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <31e03292.11481741@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2d66.2390610@news.pacificnet.net> <4rlfjo$hq4@atlas.uniserve.com> <31de7421.1739255@news.pacificnet.net> <4rn2kb$o9s@atlas.uniserve.com> <31DFBAB5.824@rio.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Chuck Ferree wrote: >For lil tommy numbnuts > >From Chuck Ferree: > >You know who we is, lil tommy. It's all the bright folks who shoot you >down when you ask dumb questions, and write childlike posts. Other >that a known anti-semite, and bigoted person, who are you really? >And who cares, really! >Chuck Leave it up to Chuck to come out in defense of Hilary, when even McVay and the others refrain from endorsing her inane stuff. Well "Birds of a feather post together". From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:24 PDT 1996 Article: 48963 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Inquiry regarding the closure of the CODOH / Brad Smith web-site Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:38:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <31dfbd68.469938@news.pacificnet.net> References: <6JUL199615344480@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: Mr.Mittleman feigns support for free speech, but, > I fully understand that CODOH has no First Amendment right to > access to psnw; I fully understand that all that is legally at > play is their contract with you and any content rules which are > referred to in that contract. > > However, I am concerned about this from a bigger picture. I > believe that it is important to provide revisionists, deniers, > anti-semites, and nazis full access to put forward their messages. > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:25 PDT 1996 Article: 48998 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:40:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31dfbe43.688045@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31de7b84.3629938@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >"Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations" > L.A.Times, July 6, 1996 > >"Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the >anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the >country's own Jewish community. > Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is >'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it. > The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the >Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000 >inreparations, ...." > > The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as >having a beef with the order. Jewish recounting of their history always focuses on particular incidents of backlash that happen here and there. Judging by a number of recent incidents of standing up against Jewish demands, this time around it seems to be taking place on a global scale. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 08:51:26 PDT 1996 Article: 48999 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:56:56 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Hilary still exemplifying a statement, "To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malidy of the ignorant". In other words, 'To be so stupid to be too stupid to realize your stupid'. hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: >In <31de7421.1739255@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran) wrote: > >>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: > >>>Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive >>>ploys, Mr. Moran. > >> Who is "we" Hilary? > >Since there appear to be a few (possibly several and, indeed maybe >many) threads with the same name (all started by you know who) I >thought I would rename this particular post. The pause that >refreshes, so to speak. > >[I shall refrain from observing that the correct formulation of the >question should be "Who are 'we', Hilary?"] > >It is unfortunate that Mr. Moran seems to have overlooked his mentor's >exhortation to "Play Ball!" If Mr. Moran's powers of observation >were such that he had sufficient skills to "read the newsgroup", he >would not feel the need to ask this particular question. > >However, since he has put the question. so to speak, I invite those >who count themselves among the "we" to so identify themselves. Such >identification will provide a program by which Mr. Moran *may* be able >to *tell the players.* > >Thank you for your co-operation in this educational effort (above and >beyond the call of duty) > >hro >======================= >Hilary Ostrov >e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com >http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ >Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 8 19:57:05 PDT 1996 Article: 49024 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews? Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:05:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Half of the 6,000,000 Jews said to have been exterminated are said to have been from Poland. Germany is said to have had 300,000 or so. All the surrounding nations are said have had anywhere from a few thousand to a hundred thousand. There must have been a reason why there would be more Jews in Poland than all those put together in the immediate surrounding nations, not counting the Soviet Union. The predicted answer to this, if not already put forth, is that they were persecuted in the other nations more so, and this is why there were so many Jews in Poland. One list used by the Holocausts promotional network to cite prewar Jewish populations in European counties, is one said to have come from the Germans themselves. This list cited 700,000 Jews in France, which is now put at 70,000. This same list cites 700,000 said to have been in Hungary. Three million Jews in prewar Poland? Of course almost all of the extermination camps are said to have been in Poland, and there would a terrible problem with trying to show that many more millions were brought in from surrounding areas if this prewar 3,000,000 Polish Jews did not exist. All kinds of questions would have be answered which would further stress the account abilities of the story. This is real convenient to have 3,000,000 of the exterminated coming from the immediate area. My general rule in viewing Holocaust numbers is, if they are set big to magnify the story I divide them by 10 and if they are set small to facilitate the story I multiply them by 10. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 07:37:23 PDT 1996 Article: 49155 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:52:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 37 Message-ID: <31e24796.3620820@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <4rp9oq$15r@atlas.uniserve.com> <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net> <4rt1tj$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: >On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: > >>>In <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom >>>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote: >>> >>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >>> >>>> Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other >>>>threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her >>>>ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and >>>>pastes her own. >>> >>>Hmmm ... very interesting Mr. Moran. I suppose you think I must be >>>absolutely *crushed* by your characterization of my posting behaviour. >>>Well, I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but I rather think that your >>>comments, insults and "descriptions" tell us _far_ more about _you_ >>>and _your_ abilities (or lack thereof) than they do about me or mine. > >> This is absolutely poetic. Here we have a post dedicated as a >>repository for her comments and insults and she comes back with a >>hidious complaint about it by referring to comment on her stuff as >>"insults". > >> IDIOT. > > Now that is an insult to idiots. Thanks for pointing this out Giwer. We all can go astray at times. To all idiots. Tom Moran apologizes. > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 07:37:24 PDT 1996 Article: 49157 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:57:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <31e248a6.3892754@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31DF89E4.1F72@hkabc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net Doctor JJ wrote: >NIGGER COWARDS > >by >Doctor J.J. This guy could be a 'plant'. In the event he isn't, I would point out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 12:46:43 PDT 1996 Article: 49203 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Can Tom Moran Read? (Re: Racism in Holocaust books) Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:52:39 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31e006f4.316422@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> <4rmc1r$g6b@bell.maths.tcd.ie> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.54 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote: >dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes: >>See above. Who is making the claim? Hilberg? Or is he quoting the >>German officer? > > I bet Tom Moran will either ignore you or post an irrelevant reply. > >>Have you considered the possibility that you are senile, and that >>you cannot understand simple written text? Maybe it's time to join >>Giwer and retire? > > I'm not so sure Moran will do that - not in the forseeable future, >anyway. > > Derek I would liken your stuff to a football game. We have the players who get out there and do the central process and the cheer leaders. > >-- >Derek Bell dbell@maths.tcd.ie WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html > Assassination is the extreme form of censorship. > George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960) > _The Rejected Statement_ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 12:46:44 PDT 1996 Article: 49214 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:40 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <31e03296.11485916@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Its not even necessary to read Hilary's stuff to see if it's a continuation of her inane stuff before posting it under her ongoing dossier. You know it is. So whatever it says below, yopu know it's idiotic. 7/7/96 Not to worry, Giwer-troll. I wasn't including you in the "we". If you had been following the newsgroup you would have figured that out all by yourself. And your friend has already beaten you to the punch on this *brilliant* pointed question. I have started a new thread to address this question. With your 163 IQ, you should have no difficulty figuring out which one it is. hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 12:46:45 PDT 1996 Article: 49231 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 12:23:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 31 Message-ID: <31e24b59.4583106@news.pacificnet.net> References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > >CODOH@msn.com (Bradley Smith) writes: > ># Even little Danny Keren > >Hmm. "Little"? In terms of body weight? Compared to you? Sure. > >Hope I'm still "fit for work", nontheless? Can still do 'bout >50 push-ups and 15 pull-ups, on a good day. > ># is against this sort of Stalinist move to harass and if possible ># control an open debate on the Holocaust Controversy. > >As I said, I prefer to wait and see *exactly* why the site was >closed. Ok, big guy? As I said, if it's *only* because of the >so-called "revisionist" views, I strongly protest this action. > > >-Danny Keren. > It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever the case may be, to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any statement he says in support of free speech I see as just a tacit approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. My personal opinion based on my long time experience of witnessing the factions constant barrage against open debate about the Holocaust or Zionism. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 12:46:46 PDT 1996 Article: 49233 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:49:26 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <31e2473d.3531732@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e10a82.397217@news.pacificnet.net> <4rr73g$fk1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote: > > >This has something to do with Levi Strauss, right? Insufficient material. Do you have a continuation? From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 14:22:39 PDT 1996 Article: 49244 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!nntp2.backbone.olemiss.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Odds Are Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:12:45 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <31d48fd5.5945521@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d2fb2f.23130620@news.pacificnet.net> <28JUN199607123925@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-29.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31d2fb2f.23130620@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >> >> It would seem that if someone claims they had lost 120, 160 >>or more relatives in the Holocaust, that some of them must have been >>sondercommandos who performed most of the grizzly deeds of the >>extermiantion process, such as, shoving the victims into gas chambers, >>pulling the teeth out of dead bodies, cutting their stomachs open in >>search of swallowed valuables, stuffing the remains into ovens, >>tossing them into firey pits. >> >> The story has it there were those firey pits, and four >>extermination facilities. The story has it these sondercommands were >>killed every two weeks or so and then a new batch was brought in. This >>would be, say 200 or so every two weeks, times say, 100+ two week >>periods, being 20,000+ altogether. >> >> The odds are ...? > > Well, if there were 6,000,000 Jewish victims of the Holocaust and > 20,000 were sondercommandos then that is about .33 percent or one in > 300. So, without knowing any more about the person who lost 120 to 160 > relatives we would estimate that it is much less than 50/50 odds that > one of them was a sondercommando. > Then you are saying that all 6,000,000 were put to death in the "extermination camps"? > But if one or more was, so what? If your grandfasther was a horse > theif it doesn't make YOU and better or worse person, does it? > > What about the ADL rabbi who said, "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews". Some of these Christians are just little kids. Evil little Christian Children. > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 14:22:40 PDT 1996 Article: 49256 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.california,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,soc.culture.african.american Subject: Re: African Americans?d Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 02:19:25 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <31e1c0e1.13746519@news.pacificnet.net> References: <01bb63aa.12587dc0$7207bace@utopia.odyssee.net> <31D2508A.E86@ix.netcom.com> <31DF8E87.25F@hkabc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-21.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.california:26625 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24954 alt.politics.white-power:35629 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:334338 alt.fan.oj-simpson:50087 alt.revisionism:49256 alt.skinheads:31266 soc.culture.african.american:121767 Doctor JJ wrote: >Lady wrote: >> >> In article <31D806C7.2C5F@unb.ca> Keith Morrison writes: >> >From: Keith Morrison >> >Subject: Re: African Americans? >> >Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:11:35 -0300 >> >> >Les Griswold wrote: >> >> >> >> Greg Goss (oreo@mindlink.bc.ca) writes: >> >> > bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>Greg Goss (oreo@mindlink.bc.ca) writes: >> >> >>> Keith Morrison wrote: >> >> >Speaking of gross mistatements, would you care to inform us how >> >many Native Americans were there before 1492 and how many there >> >are now? >> >> >-- >> >Keith Morrison >> >t08o@unb.ca >> >> I'm sure the Caribe Indians would like to contribute to that discussion also. >> Oops! There aren't any more. Columbus and the good Fathers made sure of that. >> >> LadySnow > >The American Indians did not live in peace and harmony with each other >before the white man came along. War was common among most tribes. >Columbus and the good Fathers did bring order, civilization, and >relative peace to the Americas. Generally I just delete anything with titles like the one here, without even bothering to look at them. You are absolutely right in saying the American Indians did not live in peace with each other. There was constant war fare between tribes, like anywhere else. As far as the "good Fathers"? Look around. I mean grope around, your blind. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 17:13:30 PDT 1996 Article: 49274 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:18:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <31e10a82.397217@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3175.3429407@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-26.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > [repost] > > "Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's >*previous* internet censorship attempts" Actually what the racist has put forth in his statement posted above is thoroughly unsupportable. The only thing that could be put forth with massive evidence as support, is the reverse. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 9 17:13:31 PDT 1996 Article: 49276 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor's FTP Archive Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 21:31:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31e2cd99.703644@news.pacificnet.net> References: <01bb6db8.2e18ae00$afded3c6@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 "Duncan Coons" <104670.3420@compuserve.com> wrote: >And what on earth is FAIR doing squeezed in with Hamas, the National >Alliance, and the KKK? FAIR's chairman, Dan Stein, and its Director of >Media Outreach, Ira Mehlman, are both Jewish, yet that didn't save their >organization from an ADL report, which Nizkor dutifully reproduces. Does >opposing current American immigration policy really constitute hate? And >what possible interest does a largely Canadian group devoted to combatting >holocaust revisionism have in the immigration debate south of the border? If this is the FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting), this organization was started about ten years ago or more and at that time was headed by a Jeff Cohen, I believe. They put out a publication called "EXTRA" which listed a number of abstract and wayout topics that should be considered for biased reporting. The first issue carried an article by a person from Israel, which was loaded with between the lines innuendos that would have the reader think it was taking issue with Zionist practices, but in reality was a sales job. I took FAIR's listing of wayout topics deserving of consideration for lopsided reporting as an attempt to dilute the energies of anyone concerned with biased reporting so as to take their attention away from the most biased of all biased, reporting on anything Zionist. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 12:40:04 PDT 1996 Article: 49445 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:08 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31e3a54d.565947@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2c87.2167230@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Legacy of the world that plays chess thinking only one move at a time. "Tons of chemical weapons dumped by the Allies after World War II, have nudged the sea to the brink of catastrophe, scientists say." From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 12:40:04 PDT 1996 Article: 49446 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <31e3a55e.582864@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> <31e2474c.3546232@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Correction: > > Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would >have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't ... (80 to mean, 80 percent.) From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:12 PDT 1996 Article: 49484 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31e3a5a3.651410@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31DF89E4.1F72@hkabc.net> <31e248a6.3892754@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: >On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote: > >> Doctor JJ wrote: >> >> >NIGGER COWARDS >> > >> >by >> >Doctor J.J. >> >> This guy could be a 'plant'. In the event he isn't, I would point >> out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. > >I think that he may be a plant as well. Possibly a rutabaga. You, Mr. >Moran, are most likely some other kind of vegetable. > >P.S.: what if, instead of insulting blacks, "JJ" had insulted Jews? Would >you praise him for an "excellent" article? Depends on whether or not I recognized it as a lie or the truth. >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." > --Mark Twain > From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:14 PDT 1996 Article: 49485 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <31e3a5af.663823@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31DF89E4.1F72@hkabc.net> <31e248a6.3892754@news.pacificnet.net> <4rufr7$smd@access5.digex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote: >In article <31e248a6.3892754@news.pacificnet.net>, >tom moran wrote: >>Doctor JJ wrote: >> >>>NIGGER COWARDS >>> >>>by >>>Doctor J.J. >> >> This guy could be a 'plant'. > > Quite a few people seem to think you're close to being in a persistent >vegetative state yourself, Tommy. "Couch potato," judging by the research >skills you've demonstrated so far in matters such as the menorah case. > > >>In the event he isn't, I would point >>out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. > > A lot of your friends sign with aliases. Haven't you noticed? No. Can you show it? > >-- >Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. >POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official >Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:14 PDT 1996 Article: 49486 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Genocide Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:57:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <31e3a848.1328800@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: > There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup. > > It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that >the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human >history. > > Do not believe me. > > Read your fine bible. > > Then get back to me. > The exact passages can be found in "Deuteronomy", "Numbers" and "Joshua". They usually end up with something like 'and none remained, young and old'. > From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:15 PDT 1996 Article: 49487 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:16 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <31e3a58c.628506@news.pacificnet.net> References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com> <31e24b59.4583106@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former ># professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever ># the case may be, > >Ah, that old inferiority complex kicks in. Perhaps you'll >clarify your statement about me being an "impersonating professor"? The worm went out and you bit. By "impersonating professor" I mean that for months I referred to you as "professor" or "the professor", and suddenly, after my addressing you as that scores of times, you informed me you weren't really a professor but some kind of engineer. > ># to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any ># statement he says in support of free speech I see as just ># a tacit approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. > >So, nazi-boy, it doesn't matter what I say, it only matters >what you think I really mean? I only think what you mean by putting all my experiences with your stuff ahead of your statement that you support free speech. Many people say something, then when you look at their whole, it implies something else. Look, you have called me a Nazi again. Your associated with defending the Holocaust, you are associated with web sites that imply the Nazi connection to denierism, those people are avctively involved with trying to block the discussion. "Birds of a feather, flock together". If you rant on scores of posts and then say something that doesn't fit with the majority, then I think whatever I think. > >-Danny Keren. > > From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 17:31:49 PDT 1996 Article: 74550 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31e3b23c.3876276@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31e3b23c.3876276@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:41:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31e3b31e.4102952@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:19 PDT 1996 Article: 49510 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:19:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31e3ad43.2603499@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd2d66.2390610@news.pacificnet.net> <4rlfjo$hq4@atlas.uniserve.com> <4rnh0i$8tf@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31E270BE.409@rio.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Chuck Ferree wrote: >Chuck Ferree for lil tommy: >The we is us. Me, and others capable of objective and rational >thinking. >We read a lot too! >Chuck Just keep posting Chuck. Everytime you do, you step on yourself. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:20 PDT 1996 Article: 49518 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Email 'bombings'? Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:13:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 5 Message-ID: <31e44693.2551705@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s0hcj$o26@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 ruthsommer@aol.com (RuthSommer) wrote: When your position sucks and you can't hold up to the challenge, try harassnment. If any revisionsits get e-bombed its by children, not necessarily chronological children. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:20 PDT 1996 Article: 49522 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:43:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31e44df2.4437994@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net> <31e03296.11485916@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: And more. 7/10/96 Your "very honest view"? Oh, dear! I rather think that those who hold and present an "honest view" would have no need to so proclaim. To my mind, "honest views" are usually self-evident. If your view were "honest" you would, instead of merely "dismissing" the evidence, present a logical and rational _alternative_ explanation of the facts. But to the extent that you have declined to do so, I shall concede that you are among those who mistakenly call themselves "revisionists." hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/ From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:21 PDT 1996 Article: 49525 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:27:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31e449ed.3409139@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e10a82.397217@news.pacificnet.net> <4rr73g$fk1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31e2473d.3531732@news.pacificnet.net> <4s1dl6$3ic@shiva.usa.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote: >ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote: > > This has something to do with Levi Strauss, right? > >In article <31e2473d.3531732@news.pacificnet.net>, >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines: > > Insufficient material. Do you have a continuation? > >Once again, Mr. Moran demonstrates his utter confusion and lack of a >sense of humor. Moran uses sense of humor all the time. Katz never uses it, unless he thinks his witty little barbs are humor. Katz is uptight. Keep an eye on Katz's stuff he won't be able to deliver. > >-- >Harry Katz > >Love those who reprove thee, and hate those who flatter thee; for >reproof may lead thee to eternal life, flattery to destruction. > -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:22 PDT 1996 Article: 49540 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:24:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31e44954.3256777@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> <31e2474c.3546232@news.pacificnet.net> <10JUL199606113675@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31e2474c.3546232@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >> >> Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would >>have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't for them >>being barred from trade unions. > > "80 or more"? If you are saying "would have made up 80% or more", no > that is not what I said. Why would I have said that a group composed > of 2% of the population could have made up 80% of all trade unionists? > 80% of all trade unionists is much more than 2% of the population (my > off the top of my head estimate would be about 16% of the population, > or eight times the number of Jews in the country.) This is what Mr. Mittleman said: "I don't know. I would guess it to be less than 80% for two reasons: One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific fields. And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those education levels." From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:23 PDT 1996 Article: 49541 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31e3a566.591102@news.pacificnet.net> References: <00002fc9+00008a90@msn.com> <31e24b59.4583106@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: >On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote: > >> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >> >> >As I said, I prefer to wait and see *exactly* why the site was >> >closed. Ok, big guy? As I said, if it's *only* because of the >> >so-called "revisionist" views, I strongly protest this action. > >> It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former >> professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever the case >> may be, to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any >> statement he says in support of free speech I see as just a tacit >> approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. > >Tom Moran is a genius at reading between the lines! He knows that the >words "I strongly protest this action" REALLY mean "I support this action, >but I really am very happy about it, but I'm saying I protest it in an >attempt to fool clever fellows like Tom Moran, who always knows what >people really mean." > >I guess this is what Tom Moran means by critical thinking... > You've heard of the term "writing between the lines" haven't you? Its a term that is recognized as meaning people will feign one thing but then write in innuendos. "Writing between the lines", a well known term. > > >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." > --Mark Twain > From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:23 PDT 1996 Article: 49543 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Genocide Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:42:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <31e3b336.4126954@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: > There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup. > > It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that >the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human >history. It might not be the "first written record", this I don't know, but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a righteous tenet of their religion. But then, god told them to do it. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:24 PDT 1996 Article: 49544 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Genocide Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:44:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <31e3b38b.4211868@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rvkro$9gj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31e3b336.4126954@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: > >> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup. >> >> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that >>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human >>history. > > It might not be the "first written record", this I don't know, >but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a >righteous tenet of their religion. > > But then, god told them to do it. > That is, their god. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:25 PDT 1996 Article: 49592 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:50:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31e2474c.3546232@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't for them being barred from trade unions. >As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he >(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' > > Danny Mittleman, staunch defender of anything Holocaust story responed: > "I don't know. I would guess it to be less than 80% for two >reasons: > One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade >unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific >fields. And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to >College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those >education levels." And Yehuda Bauer says the Jews were responsible for the trade unions. >VIII (a). According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A >History of the Holocaust": > "The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large >measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members." One should expect a 'creative' excuse should be forth coming. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 11:55:38 PDT 1996 Article: 49701 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!NEWS1!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:42:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 192 Message-ID: <31e50451.3235741@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-22.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Behold the lie, tell your friends. For those who are new to investigating whether or not the Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves. A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced. After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism" those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of 1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace, style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center. -------- "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million. Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust are much lower than previously thought?" *("well over" meaning 4 million) The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an "invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R., "to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims". Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic. "The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures." --------- Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall 6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000 down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader. Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz dead at about 2,300,000. "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_. Chicago: World Book, 1980. 2,500,000 Billig, Joseph. _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du Reich hitlerien_. Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973. pp 101-102. 2,000,000 Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974. p 855. 1,000,000 to 2,500,000 Friedman, Filip. _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_. Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich. London: The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 Kamenetksy, Ihor. _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_. New Haven: College and University Press, 1961. p174 2,500,000 Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_. Berlin, 1974, 157. 3,500,000 to 4,500,000 Wellers, Georges. "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 1,600,000 Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Czech, D. "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte," in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Konzentrationslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof. _Resistance in the Nazi concentration camps, 1933-1945_. Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982, 44. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Madajczyk, Czeslaw. _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce; okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_. Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe, 1970, 293-94. 2,800,000 to 4,000,000 _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator encyklopedyczny_. Warsaw: Panst. Wydaw. Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Nora Levin's "The Holocaust", 2,000,000 to 2,300,000 Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991 Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000 ------- So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000 Jews. This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews, to see how wide spread the figures are. Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are committing a lie. In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the record straight? It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were. Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz? How many do you think were Jewish? The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000 or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later. WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed "anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis". quatchen From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 18:47:08 PDT 1996 Article: 49747 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:32:21 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <31e44b64.3784607@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <4rp9oq$15r@atlas.uniserve.com> <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net> <4rt1tj$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4s1fho$3ic@shiva.usa.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote: >On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT, >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > IDIOT. > >In article <4rt1tj$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, >Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) takes exception: > > Now that is an insult to idiots. > >At least Mr. Giwer admits to being an idiot! Seems that Mr. Giwer is >intelligent enough to know when he is being insulted after all! I think the time is drawing nigh for a "The Best of Katz". > >-- >Harry Katz > >The just of all nations have a portion in the future reward. > -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 07:00:56 PDT 1996 Article: 49857 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why don't historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:22:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 55 Message-ID: <31e64334.289894@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4rrgl9$j5b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4rsbbt$203@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4rvli6$ssm@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Marty Kelley wrote: >On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Matt Giwer wrote: > >> On 8 Jul 1996 21:07:09 -0400, sf924@aol.com (SF924) wrote [re. Mr. >Hagen's "Revisionism defined]: >> >> >But you have to come to grips with a very serious fact: no historian or >> >academic, who is not also pushing a neo-Nazi or similar agenda, seems to >> >support your position. The only people who seem to support your position >> >are those persons with a strong political or personal bias either to >> >rehabilitate Nazism, Hitler or facism or denounce its victims, i.e. Jews >> >and other lesser races. Much of the recvisionist thinking plays on >> >earlier Nazi-style propoganda: i.e. the Jews control the world. >> >> >Until serious mainstream academics come to support your position, your >> >position will be viewed as part of the lunatic fringe, and justifiably so. >> >> Excuse me sir. Mainstreme Acedemisians put their pants on one leg at a >> time just like the rest of us and have to achieve the same standards as >> anyone else in what they say. > >Actually, mainstream academicians generally hold themselves, and each >other, to higher standards in their writing than they would expect to see >in general public discourse. That's why academic journals are subject to >"blind" peer reviews, where submitted articles are screened by >several readers who get a copy of the article with the author's name >removed. It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty rigorous. > >> Anyone in the least familiar with academic politics (as in any other >> power structure) knows that any position/title/chair is a bureaucratic >> piece if shit. > >While academic politics are indeed a serious problem in the business, that >hardly makes _all_ scholarship invalid. Within academe, for all its >faults and bickering (sometimes over trivialities), there are wide >variations in what is generally accepted in terms of theory and practice. >Ideological debate is common and wide-ranging--I have had profs who ranged >from Marxist to rock-bottom Tory in their politics. Just asbout the only >thing that these very diverse folks would agree upon is that pseudoscience >(UFOs, "creationism," faith healing, etc) and pseudohistory (Holocaust >denial, the Trilateral Commission Conspiracy, etc.) are demonstably bunk. > This is Mr.Kelley barking up the academic credentials topic again. Nothing proves academic degree guarantees anything. > >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being-- >that is enough for me; he can't be any worse." > --Mark Twain > From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 12:26:06 PDT 1996 Article: 74847 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31e65eb6.7331169@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31e65eb6.7331169@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:22:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31e65fa5.7570093@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 12:40:40 PDT 1996 Article: 49893 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Any day now"? Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:28:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 126 Message-ID: <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Here is an exchange that led up to Jamies claim he was going to be getting the Degesch patent "anyday now". It started off with Moran going over the release rate of Kyklon B with the former impersonating professor Keren. The professor had just gone through his usual indefinite posturing on the the release rate. "Dr. Ulrich Roessler, who often posts to this group, looked at the original Zyklon patents in Germany. What they say seems to totally contradict what you say above. Again, what is your source? Please, do not quote other "revisionists", give a hard source." === Moran: "The source is the described product. Are you saying the product wasn't designed for slow release? Lets make it easier on you, Are you saying the product wasn't designed for gradual/extended release? We can do away with the word 'slow'." === Jamie McCarthy jumped in: "OK, that's fine. The product was designed to "extend" the release of the gas over a period of about ten minutes. Do you think that's "gradual," Mr. Moran?" === Moran responded to Jamies "ten minutes" claim: "Jamie, I want you to say something stupid again before I smother your terse little witty reply. Are you saying all the HCN suspended in the Zyklon B medium was released in ten minutes? You say it was 'designed' to release in ten minutes?" === Jamie comes back: "Permit me to repeat myself. The product, Zyklon-B, was designed to release all, or nearly all, of its HCN gas over a period of about ten minutes. Now, Mr. Moran, please proceed." === Moran proceeds: "According to a post by D. Keren, one study showed that Zyklon B loses 40% of its suspended HCN in the first half hour, and according to another study a bit more.' === Jamie backtracks: "By the way, I should correct myself: I don't know that it was Zyklon _B_ specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was accurate for all forms. The statement I made is accurate for a powder form of Zyklon, with appropriate application. The release time for the silica form of Zyklon B, given the application technique used in the gas chambers, probably was rather longer." === Moran points out Jamie's backtrack: "'By the way, I should correct myself: I don't know that it was Zyklon B specifically ...'"? === Jamie: "I underlined _B_ for a reason. One of the Zyklon products was designed to emit all or nearly all of its gas in about ten minutes. I don't know that it was Zyklon B. The point, in any case, is that it was nowhere near the hours and hours suggested by Holocaust-deniers." === Moran rightfully presses Jamie: "Well Jamie, if there was a form of Zyklon that released all its HCN in ten minutes it wasn't the B strain, which leaves us with the question of why didn't the Germans use the more or less immediate release form instead of one that would take at least an hour and a half to release." === Jamie comes back with: "I have yet to see any evidence from you demonstrating this. Please put some documentation out on the table so that your claims may be considered worthy of discussion. My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent. I don't have a direct citation for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me photocopies any day now." === It is obvious that Jamie tried to pull a fast one with "The product was designed to "extend" the release of the gas over a period of about ten minutes." The record of the thread shows the topic was the product "Zyklon B" when Jamie jumped in with his "ten minutes". The record of the thread also shows that Jamie cited the product "Zyklon B" explicitly: "Permit me to repeat myself. The product, Zyklon-B, was designed to release all, or nearly all, of its HCN gas over a period of about ten minutes." The record of the thread shows Jamie, like a little boy coming around: "By the way, I should correct myself: I don't know that it was Zyklon _B_ specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was accurate for all forms. ..." From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:35 PDT 1996 Article: 49993 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,can.general,tor.general,ont.general Subject: Re: [Press Release] Freedom-Site suffers censorship from Pathway Communications Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:20:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <31e650ad.3738140@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s5b5c$1s5@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4s5kt2$1p8q@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.politics:57761 alt.revisionism:49993 alt.politics.white-power:35976 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25226 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1671 can.general:82844 ont.general:45865 ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie Farber) wrote: >Bernie Farber responds: > >Hey Marc, such is the beauty of our capitalist system. Pathway communication has decided >that it does not want you as a customer. This is it's right. You have the right to find another server. >As for your financial problems with Pathway, small claims court is available to you. > >Personally, I applaud Pathway communications for its principles. > >BTW, Good luck finding another server. Maybe you could make a case for your position that Lemire's site was guilty of whatever you have in your head as justifying any closure. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:36 PDT 1996 Article: 49998 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:21:06 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s3dk9$ko6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote: > >"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. > -(Anatole France) In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe it too. History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass which are no longer held as true today. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:37 PDT 1996 Article: 50011 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Photos make Holocaust story rediculous Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:39:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <31e662f6.8418958@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 In a aerial photograph taken by the Allies, May 31, 1944, of Auschwitz I, the makeup of the camp is clearly discernable. One can even see people in the areas between buildings. Auschwitz itself is a small area nestled among a wider complex of other facilities. Narrow roads separate the buildings which have about the same proximities of a dense packed American residentual area. In the photograph various buildings are captioned in association with arrows. "Registration building, Camp kitchen" etc. Of course the "Gas chamber and Crematorium I" are pointed out, and as it turns out, it is located right in among other buildings in the camp itself and in close proximity to other buildings in adjacent facilities. In fact some of those most immediate adjacent buildings are identified as "Camp Admin.", "Commodants Office" and the most adjacent buildings being the "SS Hospital" and the "Gestapos Office". Now lets get this straight, thousands of people are gassed in the building, and then the poisonous residue is ventilated into the immediate area of the Germans facilities? Then they are cremated and reeking smoke comes pouring out of the chimney at the location? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:38 PDT 1996 Article: 50015 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: So much for eyewitnesses. Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:42:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 34 Message-ID: <31e6644d.8762624@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] According to Franciszek Piper, curator of the Auschwitz Museum in Poland, prisoner and SS eyewitness testimony is unreliable. In his "Number of Victims", Chapter 4 in "The Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp", he covers the course of events and considerations involved in arriving at the revised Auschwitz figures. It seems the revisers held little esteem for any eyewitness testimony, at least in regard to numbers, be it prisoner or SS functionary, discounting it all in favor of deportation records from various countries. In respect to the numbers, Piper referring to the deportation records states, "Before these records were discovered, researchers had to rely on discrepant and impercise data from testimonies and depositions from witnesses, former prisoners, and Nazi functionaries and on court decisions and fragmentary and incomplete records of camp registries, archives, and other institutions". Here Piper even includes "court decisions" as part of that which is held in low esteem. He goes on to say the testimonies held "inevitable distortions and were "marred by serious errors, discrepancies, and contradictions". Among the few examples Piper identifies as perpetrating the questionable testimony is the number one star witness for the Holocaust story, Rudolph Ho'ss. Under a bold heading "Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and Tribunals" Piper does a quick run down on the erroneous findings of these bodies and even does similar comment under "Scholarly Publications". Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes." From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 18:18:34 PDT 1996 Article: 50083 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: "Any day now"? Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:13:57 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 33 Message-ID: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 During some discussion under alt.rev., "Lay Guide to Zyklon B" Jamie McCarthy claimed he was going to be getting a copy of the Degesch (Makers of Zyklon B) patent "any day now" and thus implying it would be presented to the group. Jamie McCarthy, co-webmaster-Nizkor: "My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent. I don't have a direct citation for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me photocopies any day now." Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ This was over four months ago. For more recapping of how the Holocaust dedicated make wild claims and don't deliver, see, alt.rev., "How soon is soon ?" were the former impersonating professor Keren made the same claim a couple of months ago. For a wild boasterous claim by Hilary Ostrov, which was, her claim she was going to post a "morphing of Tom Moran", see alt.rev., "Coming soon to a newsgroup near you". Evidentally they think all they have to do is make the claims and this should convince people of their position. Like little children in the school yard. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:56 PDT 1996 Article: 50172 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!fu-berlin.de!main.Germany.EU.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Any day now"? Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:35:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 60 Message-ID: <31e79785.462852@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: Part II. Top half lopped off. >If you'd like to donate a scanner and software to Dr. Ulrich Roessler in >Germany, who has the patent and is working on a translation, I imagine >he might be grateful enough to scan it and upload it to Nizkor. Since >we're all volunteers, I'm afraid we aren't the best equipped or staffed. >But your donation can help correct that. Thanks again. "If you'd like to donate a scanner and software to Dr. Ulrich Roessler ..."? Jamie down by the school yard. Jamie has stated that he has a summary of the patent, which should cause the wondering mind to think of how he would come to have a summary and not all. How long does it take to translate something like a patent - or a manual? Here is what Jamie said 4 months ago on 2/25/96: "My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent. I don't have a direct citation for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me photocopies any day now." "Reliable sources" evidentally have supplied Jamie with something. Translated even. Unless Jamie reads German. But then he ask me to translate it for Nizkor, so that wouldn't be it. So we have Jamie saying he has a summary of this patent, but the thing hasn't been translated yet, and Jamie doesn't know German, leaving the question of how he comes to be citing it out here? Anyway it's clear from the record of the thread that Jamie tried to get away with a fast one with his claim that "Zyklon B" gave up all of it's HCN in ten minutes, but then eventually had to say, "By the way, I should correct myself: I don't know that it was Zyklon _B_ specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was accurate for all forms." What a mess. Theres something fishy with this Degesch patent. Here we are talking about the very core of the Holocaust story, the gas, THE gas, and we have this network out there that has spent millions promoting the story, and has resorted to energetic intrigues, stopping at nothing to get it out there, and here we have this document that should shed some light on the THE gas, and it's not available, in any language. Jamie notes below that he has sent off his response to Dr.Roessler, and perhaps the doctor will come out to straighten it all out. > >Posted; emailed to Mr. Moran and Dr. Roessler. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:57 PDT 1996 Article: 50173 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:37:39 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s3dk9$ko6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net> <12JUL199610004511@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote: >>> >>>"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. >>> -(Anatole France) >> >> In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad >>populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe >>it too. >> >>History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass >>which are no longer held as true today. > > It is true that almost everyone in the world (who thinks about it) > thinks that 10-12 million people killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust > including 6 million or so Jews, 3 million or so of them by gassing in > the death camps. > > Just because almost everyone thinks this is true does not make it true. > Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us. > But please do it without resorting to > > - without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't > reflect reality at all > - without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources > - by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence > - without resorting to anti-semitic spewage > - by addressing the evidence which exists > - by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by > hundreds, if not thousands, of historians. > > If you can do this, then maybe some of those "almost everyone" will > begin to pay attention to you. So far you have violated every point > stated above. Interesting barrage of unsubstantiated conclusions. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:58 PDT 1996 Article: 50181 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Auschwitz: a secret?- 1 (repost) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:39:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <31e646cb.1208295@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s4156$iaa@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-12.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote: >Now, first statement: Hoess, in his 'confession', supposedly given without >any coercion, testified that when Himmler ordered him to establish a program >of mass extermination in his camp (a verbal order to keep the secret) he >received also instructions not to discuss it with Gluecks, general inspector >of the camps, because absolute secrecy was necessary. Can you believe that? Incredible. Its like saying some people at General Motors decided to make their own car model, using the existing GM facilities, without anyone knowing about it. > > > > > > From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:59 PDT 1996 Article: 50197 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: So much for eyewitnesses. Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:40:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31e8ea9b.179000@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e6644d.8762624@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-2.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt >historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the >scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes." Meaning, contrary to the long held and general practice of Holocaust facts being based on the emotional method. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 09:44:35 PDT 1996 Article: 50203 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews? Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:40:40 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31e8eaac.195752@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-2.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > Half of the 6,000,000 Jews said to have been exterminated are >said to have been from Poland. > Germany is said to have had 300,000 or so. All the surrounding >nations are said have had anywhere from a few thousand to a hundred >thousand. > Making the figures of 3,000,000 Polish Jews more rediculous is the fact the Jews have a history of gravitating to commercially favorable conditions where capitalizing is more opportune. After all, this is where their main focus is. Since we could very well show that such places as Germany, France, Austria, Italy and England would be and were high areas for commercial opportunity, we might wonder how three or four times as many Jews ended up in Poland than all the rest put together. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 09:44:36 PDT 1996 Article: 50215 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Any day now"? Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:02:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <31e90b3e.8533257@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net> <31e796ce.279842@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: >Because we're not an "awesome Holocaust promotional network." We're a >bunch of amateurs doing the best we can in our free time. You've been >told that _how_ many times now? "We're a bunch of amateurs ... how many times" do we have to tell you that? Poor Jamie. >Posted/emailed. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 12:22:08 PDT 1996 Article: 50220 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: class action testicles Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:22:45 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <31e90f86.9629396@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >> Just like my pointing out >> the rediculous Nizkor "Feature" of "Plans for Crema II" that looked >> like sommething someone sketched up on a paper napkin while waiting >> for lunch, and now it is gone. > >Oh, it's still there: > >http://www.nizkor.eye.net/rue/RUE3-PlanChm1.html No longer a "feature"? I can understand that. >More plans (overhead views instead of side views) are at: > >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/documents/pressac > >Do you really think your characterization of the Bauleitung technical >drawings as "sketched up on a paper napkin" is fooling anyone? "Fooling anyone"? I'm not the one who is presenting it. It speaks for itself. > >You can mock the facts, but the facts persist. "Facts"? What pertinent "facts" are you talking about? > >Posted/emailed. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 16:32:43 PDT 1996 Article: 50272 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: class action lawsuit Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:11:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.37 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: > Is there anyone here interested in a class action lawsuit against McVay >and Nizkor? > > I will be collecting these and forwarding them to an attorney who may be >or may not be interested in the case depending upon the responses and >the documentation supporting those responses. > > Please respond email. Gimer, think of this way. Nizkor has 100 to the 10th gigabytes of trash. By the time anyone gets through the first one byte they will go else where. The chances are, anyone accessing Nizkor, will not come across whatever they have on you. So what if they cite you out of context, or only include certain things in a thread. Look at what they have done under "names" > "m" > "moran". They have put in a clickable called "testicles". I just say 'nuts' they have a lot of 'balls' putting in something that has no connection to Moran whatsoever. Hurry up and check it out before they delete it. Personally I like it. Someone goes into Nizkor, clicks up "Moran" and there they have this "testicles" and if anyone checks it out they will sit there wondering where it all fits in. But, in the event you do sue, and get a sizable settlement, send me 10% so I can buy a Mercedes Benz and a Rolex. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:32 PDT 1996 Article: 50295 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: law suit Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:39:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <31e97701.1703004@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e90d69.9088329@news.pacificnet.net> <4sbaac$mpe@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-23.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > > >> I wonder how many frivolous lawsuits this YFE idiot has filed in >> his goofy career? > > > Hey, gutless one, to paraphrase John Mitchell, we watch what you do >not what you say. In your (note correct punctuation of "your") case that means >you are afraid to meet me in an impartial forum where I can and will prove every >statement I have made about you. You mean the one where you suggest I turn myself in for "anti-Semitism"? > > By the way, since you and Giwer feel so comfortable in threatening >lawsuits, I have fowarded this message to your provider, putting them on notice >that they are publishing legally actionable statements. Maybe you should show where I endorse any kind of lawsuits. Why don't you post the message you sent to my server? When you posted the message, did you leave in the question mark at the end? If I get an inquiry, I will submit your record of scores of accusations that you have directed my way and refused to support. It seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish out whatever his furious little impulsive mind clicks on with, and then he comes out crying foul. What an ugly picture. > Shalom, L'il Tommy. Theres the "Shalom" word used in that certain way. > --YFE Seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish it out. He uses the word "gutless" above. It is obvious he went and told my mommy. Poor Mr.Edeiken, he likes to direct his venomous accusations but he can't take a question. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:33 PDT 1996 Article: 50321 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: class action testicles Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:50:44 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 50 Message-ID: <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-2.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote: > >Indeed - it's even funnier when you read the testicles file - >in which a certain user exhibits dificiencies other than those >testosterone-based, and another user (one Yale) demonstrates >that the other is, er, lying again. Wait a minute. You can't be talking about the same "Yale" that claimed he had 160 relatives lost in the Holocaust and claimed, two months ago, he was going to present the documentation and still nothing coming? Or the same "Yale" that claimed there was a girl at a library that was holding the documentation to show that there were 200,000,000 trees planted in Israel and it turned out no one at the library ever heard of the person? Your not talking about that "Yale" are you? "Yale" the documented liar? >Alas, Poor Moran, you see, was demeaned by a misfiled article... I >had thought it was his, but twas not so. It was not, I confess >before God and public, Mr. Moran's lie, but Mr. Roberts' lie. >It gets more and more difficult to tell them apart, you see. Don't worry about it McVay, it's the same with all the Nizkor files. All over the place. >The testicles have been moved to ~/people/r/roberts.jeff/ >where they belonged in the first place. (Testicles clearly do >not belong in Moran's directory, as Yale has so long noted. My >deep apologies to Mr. Moran for my having thought, even for a moment, >that a file by that name could be - even remotely - associated >with him.) Now I should have never said anything. The "testicles" file would still be there for anyone to wonder about. Just like my pointing out the rediculous Nizkor "Feature" of "Plans for Crema II" that looked like sommething someone sketched up on a paper napkin while waiting for lunch, and now it is gone. Maybe in the end run it doesn't matter much anyway. Few, if any, accesses the dossiers. As far as the rest of the site goes, a couple of excursions by the random reader is enough, and they are gone. The site is far too miscombobulated. >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.eye.net >-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Troll Bait Sold Here > |-------------------------------------- > http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:34 PDT 1996 Article: 50322 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:51:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 87 Message-ID: <31e8ed2a.833596@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s3dk9$ko6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net> <12JUL199610004511@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614491526@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-2.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >In article <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> >>>In article <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes... >>>>EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. >>>>> -(Anatole France) >>>> >>>> In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad >>>>populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe >>>>it too. >>>> >>>>History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass >>>>which are no longer held as true today. >>> >>> It is true that almost everyone in the world (who thinks about it) >>> thinks that 10-12 million people killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust >>> including 6 million or so Jews, 3 million or so of them by gassing in >>> the death camps. >>> >>> Just because almost everyone thinks this is true does not make it true. >>> Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us. >>> But please do it without resorting to >>> >>> - without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't >>> reflect reality at all >>> - without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources >>> - by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence >>> - without resorting to anti-semitic spewage >>> - by addressing the evidence which exists >>> - by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by >>> hundreds, if not thousands, of historians. >>> >>> If you can do this, then maybe some of those "almost everyone" will >>> begin to pay attention to you. So far you have violated every point >>> stated above. >> >> Interesting barrage of unsubstantiated conclusions. > > I wrote: > > #Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us. > #But please do it without resorting to > #- without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't > # reflect reality at all > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > #- without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > #- by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > #- without resorting to anti-semitic spewage > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > #- by addressing the evidence which exists > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > #- by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by > # hundreds, if not thousands, of historians. > > I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply > point us to one and I will retract. > > But you can't so you won't. You are a liar and an anti-semite whose > agenda has been shown to be HATE HATE HATE. Interesting reiteration of the barrage of unsubstantiated conclusions. > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:15 PDT 1996 Article: 50412 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: law suit Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:35:46 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <31ea461b.2266315@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e9796f.2325194@news.pacificnet.net> <4sc5k1$se8@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: >> How desperate. After accusing Moran of all sorts of things and >> refusing to present any evidence > > That is an outright lie. I have repeatedly offered to prove my >contentions before an impartial body. L'il Tommy is one afraid of impartial bodies. When ever Moran goads Mr.Edeiken to present his proof he constantly resorts to the above instead of just posting the "lie(s)". Moran ask him "wherzat?" and Mr.Edeiken points to the moon. >> out wailing about taking the back door to silencing his adversaries. >> It seems we are now seeing the real mind behind all the tough talk. > That's right, L'il Tommy. The days when you can lie about people and >not have it thrown back in your face are over. Moran said Mr.Edeiken resorts to "taking the back door to silencing his adversaries" and Mr.Edeiken says, "That's right, l'il Tommy". >> He won't be able to deliver on the previous request for him to >> show where Moran "defined the rules" just like he has never once taken >> Moran up on his challenge to many of Mr.Edieken's accusations. > I have continually taken up that "challenge." It is you who have >refused. Please note Giwer's open invitation to join his in a series of frivolous >lawsuits against Nizkor in which you joined. And where is that? Mr.Edeiken just keeps saying Moran "joined" Giwer in his call for lawsuits, but does he say where? Does he paste the passage? Does he support his stuff anyway at all? The record is clear. The answer is, No. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:16 PDT 1996 Article: 50414 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:13:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <31ea43b3.1650880@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 7/15/1996 After you have successfully completed remedial reading 101, come back to us and ask your question again Li'l Tommy. Currently it appears that your profound deficiencies preclude your being able to recognize (inter alia) "facts." hro ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/ From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:17 PDT 1996 Article: 50415 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: class action testicles Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:36:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <31ea5750.6672069@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net> <31e90f86.9629396@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote: >OK, I'm through talking with Tom Moran. This is ridiculous. He's made >it plain that he has nothing worthwhile to say; until he does, I have >better things to do than respond to his idiocy. > >Posted/emailed. >-- > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ > jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ > Hate mail will be posted. With his tail between his legs, Jamie McCarthy, "co-webmaster" of Nizkor goes scampering away. Lets see. What is it that Jamie is running away from? Oh yea. I ask him how is it Nizkor carries a, supposedly, vital document as evidence for the Holocaust story and it is written in German, why hasn't Nizkor had it translated and how is it Jamie knows it is "some very interesting source documents" if it hasn't been translated and he can't read German. So much for Jamie. I realized back in November, 1995, when I first received e-mail from Jamie, that he had the mind of a child. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 11:28:33 PDT 1996 Article: 50424 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The Cultured McVay Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:53:07 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <31ea4d3c.4091967@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Under Webcrawler > Revisionism > "Green Eggs Report" we are given a brief bio on McVay, and his photo, for any one who wants to see the face of the collaborator himself. The report states at one place that McVay was retired and at another that he was unemployed when he began whatever he's up to now. Giving us the warm human side of McVay we can click up "trivia" where we are given the following life interests of the person. beer: Okanagan Springs Old English Porter champagne: Dom Perignon, of course. cognac: Remy Martin Grand Champagne comedian: John Cleese comedy group: Monty Python's Flying Circus (who else?) dog: "Tilly" (Bassett Hound) hideaway: Astoria, Oregon lady: (she knows who she is) mead: Chateau Bumrot '96 (Happy, Harry?) pianist: Eva (Hi, sweetheart; welcome home!) politician: Pierre Trudeau resolution: Never to let Lucy hold that football again. sports cars: MGTD & BGT, Austin-Healy Sprite, Lotus 7 Mk IV stout: Guiness, of course! wine (red): Geisweiler Beaune wine (white): yetch I personally don't know what McVay was before he became "retired" or "unemployed" and took up collaboration, but it seems he would like to have his wine cellars and fancy cars and perhaps he found a way to have it. Actually it might be difficult to visualize a man of culture from the list, more of a picture of a mod squad yuppy. Considering this bio of interests, we wonder what kind of history he had fighting "hatred" and injustice before he somehow got all hooked up with what he's doing now. Well, anyway, his bio does him injustice. It doesn't mention any book(s) he might like when in fact he is very well read in the one and only, holiest of holy, libra maximus, IT, "The Holocaust Almanac". From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 13:33:19 PDT 1996 Article: 50441 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:51:13 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <31e915cc.11235458@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Nizkor list a line of pages from this Peters book, totaling maybe 15 pages. One should think it would be in the interest of Nizor's position to post, in translated copy, any of it that is directly supportive to their position. Whatever it is. As it stands now, only those who can read German and root out the limited copy would be able to know what it is all about. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 19:32:15 PDT 1996 Article: 50506 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: law suit Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:53:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 148 Message-ID: <31ea3e7b.314775@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e97701.1703004@news.pacificnet.net> <4sc553$se8@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: This is a good one. >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >> yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote: > >> > Hey, gutless one, to paraphrase John Mitchell, we watch what you do >> >not what you say. In your (note correct punctuation of "your") case that >means >> >you are afraid to meet me in an impartial forum where I can and will prove >every >> >statement I have made about you. >> >> You mean the one where you suggest I turn myself in for >> "anti-Semitism"? > > No you lying asshole. I never made any such suggestion. To recap, >since you do not have the intellectual honesty to repeat the acceptance of your >challenge or the mental capactiy to understand it: > > I will prove that you are a liar and an anti-Semite, using the standard >dictionary definition of that term, before any organization dealing in alternate >dispute resolution. I prefer the American Arbitration Association -- the oldest >national body doing such private arbitrations -- but will listen to alternate proposals. > The only conditions placed on this offer are: > > 1. Federal Rules of Evidence to be used. > > 2. Federal Rules of Civil Procedure concerning discovery and Federal >Rule of Procedure 52 to be used. > > 3. Loser will pay all expenses of litigation and all fees for the >transcribing or vidoetaping of depositions. > > Now, gutless one, is there anything in this proposal -- which has been >made in this form several times -- that calls for you to "turn yourself in." Indeed >since the burden is on me to prove my contentions (a piece of cake) the exact >opposite is true. Since this is a an alternate dispute resolution process, it requires >your agreement. Rather than being an unusual form of dispute resloution this is >rather a standard procedure. Every brokerage agreement I have ever seen calls >for arbitration and it is the common device, as opposed to litigation, for settling >disputes between insurance companies. Don't you see Mr.Edeiken, your the one who is making the charge. So either you follow through with it by initiating your own "arbitration" in front of a court, or your asking me to do it. You make the charge, I just say 'ho hum'. Put your action where your mouth is Oh Great Accuser of many things. And then again, you could present your case right out here. Seems every time you make a accusation I just say 'Wherzat?" and you just return to the above theme. What can I say? I just keep saying "Wherzat?" and you just keep continuing with your snarling evasions. > I note that you continue to lie about the acceptance of your challenge. >> Maybe you should show where I endorse any kind of lawsuits. > Maybe you should read what you write. Well here we go again, Mr.Edeiken. I say, wherzat, and you refuse to show it. You make a claim and then can't or won't show it. Its on the record. Now wherzat, Mr.Edeiken? Where exactly do you say I posted any endorsement of any lawsuits? >> Why don't you post the message you sent to my server? No comment from Mr.Edeiken on this reasonable request. Interesting. >> When you posted the message, did you leave in the question mark >> at the end? >> If I get an inquiry, I will submit your record of scores of >> accusations that you have directed my way and refused to support. > Ben there, Jew hater. Done that. I have never refused to support a >single one. I now renew my offer to prove them before an impartial body. It is you >who are ducking. Nope, the record shows you to have made scores of accusations and when pressed "Wherzat?" you just repeat them or file new ones. Lets try this, Mr.Edeiken. You have in the past, scores of times, accused Moran of saying the "KKK" and/or "KKKK" is a Jewish organization. You have perhaps 5 or 6 recent posts with the theme. Sometimes when I'm in the mood, I say "Wherzat?" and you have never come back to state exactly where you can show where I did say the statement. Never. Nor have you bothered to, or couldn't perform a simple procedures of 'cut and paste' of the evidence. Even right now you can't show that you ever responded directly. All the record shows is your constant repeating the theme. Nothing more. I see you have also returned to the "arbitration clause again. There your charges, you initiate the proceeding. Or you could go at it right out here. What's the matter? You can't or you won't? >> It seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish out whatever his furious little >> impulsive mind clicks on with, and then he comes out crying foul. What >> an ugly picture. > The ugl;y picture is a lying creep like you. Snarl, growl, roar, foam. >> > Shalom, L'il Tommy. >> >> Theres the "Shalom" word used in that certain way. > >> Seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish it out. He uses the word "gutless" >> above. > That is an pretty good description of your behavior. >> It is obvious he went and told my mommy. Poor Mr.Edeiken, he >> likes to direct his venomous accusations but he can't take a question. > No what I did was put your ISP on notice that it is publishing actionable >material. So what is he saying here? Yes he told my mommy, or no he didn't tell my mommy? > Morevoeer it is Giwer and you who have threatened lawsuits. Oh, this again. Could you show exactly where I, Moran, "threatened lawsuits"? Just direct the reader to the post or just paste the statement here with from whence it came. Its easy. Seems easier than your continuous evasions. Just think, if you just posted it once, then you wouldn't have to keep typing the same old stuff over and over again.. Now wherzat, Mr.Edeiken? Where exactly did I, Moran threaten and/or endorse any lawsuits. >Sorry that you can't take a dose of your own medicine. Your the one foaming at the fingertips Mr.Edeiken, not me. Its not me calling your mommy. Its you calling my mommy. I would never call your mommy. You see Mr.edeiken, I view it as being weak, insufficient, incapable, corrupt, a menace to the First Amendment. I can handle it right here, you and I. I don't go around looking for help. Your the one who acts like the tough guy, with your talk of others being cowards and all, but now, we see the wimpy truth. > Shalom, L'il Tommy There's that special application of the "Shalom" word again. "Shalom" at times can mean 'f--- you'. Isn't that right Mr.Edeiken? You don't really wish Moran 'Peace' do you? From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 19:32:16 PDT 1996 Article: 50516 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocuster's Last Stand Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:52:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 39 Message-ID: <31ea4ce2.4002165@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] There are many aspects to the Holocaust story. Numbers, methods, and locations are the basic ingredients. How many people were exterminated, how and where. This could be listed under two general headings, camps and field. The camps would be those places set up or eventually modified especially for the purpose of mass extermination. The field would head all the things said to have happened outside of the camps as to mass extermination. Many of the camps once said to have been extermination centers have already been deleted from the story, as is the same for many methods once said to have been used. As for the killings in the field, next to nothing has been found that would even remotely substantiate the huge numbers said to have been killed, sometimes as many 40,000 all in one night at a single location. After all this and aside from all that is left, the conflict between truth and fiction is all focused on Auschwitz. Auschwitz is the soup can at the bottom of the pyramide. The cornerstone. The focus of the whole story. Center stage. The last tension in the wind up toy. Once the world sanity comes to recognize the myths of Auschwitz everything else tumbles, melts and crys. All the talk about populations, the 3,000,000 names collected, all the big tales, all the little tales, all the witnesses, all the interpretations, all the confirming research, all the books, all the museums, all the activity of the last fifty years, all will follow. Auschwitz, the vital frontier. When it all falls, it will be Humpty Dumpty time. All the books and all the museums or anything else will not be able to sustain belief or acceptance in whatever remains. Only a major revision to the First Amendment, enforced by totalitarian authority, can keep the Holocaust story true. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:20 PDT 1996 Article: 50534 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: McVay, down by the school yard Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:54:13 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31ea4d63.4130414@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [repost] Moran had posted recently "What is "trolling"? > I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What >does that mean? > Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'. >You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling. Ken McVay responded: "I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your inability to use the English language properly, brush your teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_ manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it. There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin. (Somehow, I doubt it.)" From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:21 PDT 1996 Article: 50536 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:01:11 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 For anyone who wants to check out what the Holocaust story has as evidence for this camp being an extermination facility check out Nizkor. (Nizkor > ftp > treblinka) Notice how they deny the evidence is not founded on "eyewitness" testimony and then notice how most of their evidence is testimony and quotes from books. Notice "treblinka 02." where it is quoted from the "Old Frogs Almanac" - "When the Russians took over the Treblinka conmplex and the nearly dead survivors ... there was no lack of physical evidence". Notice under other clickables where it is said "The suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars ..." were there also. Yet the Holocaust story also has it that the camp was constructed one year (1941-2), 2,000,000 people were exterminated the next years (1942-3) and the next year it was plowed over and turned into a tree farm (1943-4), and yet when the Russians arrived a year after all this, it was still there, in full bloom. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:22 PDT 1996 Article: 50539 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:11:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31ea4276.1333359@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> <31e915cc.11235458@news.pacificnet.net> <4sd92r$89n@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote: >>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >> Nizkor list a line of pages from this Peters book, totaling maybe >>15 pages. One should think it would be in the interest of Nizor's >>position to post, in translated copy, any of it that is directly >>supportive to their position. Whatever it is. As it stands now, only >>those who can read German and root out the limited copy would be able >>to know what it is all about. > >Mr. Moran, > > if you send the text in question to my email address, I am quite willing to post >a short overview over its contents in this newsgroup. You say a "short overview"? What's the problem with the whole li'l 15 pages or so. Or how about just the part that would support the Holocaust story. You want me to send it you? Why don't you just take it off the site? > >Nele From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:22 PDT 1996 Article: 50540 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Post your forensic studies here Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:07:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <31ea4f08.4551909@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 [modified repost] Moran has posted this space for anyone who says they have any forensic study reports that supports the Holocaust. This article was posted about 2 months ago. At that time it got two responses. The first was: "http://www.almanac.bc.ca/" ======================= Hilary Ostrov e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/ Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ The second was: Look, this is really boring. Leuchter, Rudoplh, and the team of Polish chemists all found cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz and Birkenau gas chambers. You know this. Now, provide us with forensic evidence that proves that Paris was occupied by the Nazis. And that the crusades took place. And that WW1 took place. Let's see you prove that something ever happened. Ok? After all, you have admitted that there are historical events which you accept as having taken place, although there is no physical evidence to them whatsoever. -Danny Keren. -- Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. -Lu Xun. Well, so much for forensic studies in support of the Holocaust story. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 22:32:57 PDT 1996 Article: 50558 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Suing is for sissies Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 02:30:36 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 37 Message-ID: <31eafe77.18684056@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.40 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Suing is for sissies. Especially for what is posted on alt.revisionism where the opportunity is there for the accusations and denials. As far as threatening to sue servers, it is a danger to the First Amendment. Why not just sue the poster? How can a server know what is said. As it stands now there are calls for censorship with open discussion on the Holocaust seeming to be the main target outside of child pornography. It would appear that those calling for the censorship would have it that all one has to do is tell a server and the server has the right to cancel the targeted offender on the word of the plaintiff without any recourse to have a hearing. This is no different than someone going into a store and wanting to buy something and someone gripes about it and the store refuses to sell the desired item. I believe there are statutes, state and federal, that prohibit anyone from refusing service to another on the grounds of race or religous and political thinking. If there are any grounds for suing any server as to Holocaust revisionism, it would be for them refusing service to anyone who wanted to or did post anything in that regard. As far as personal attacks go, I for one can take it. If Mr.Edeiken wants to direct his "No you lying little scumbag", "cowardly little bigot", "a liar and an anti-Semite", "lying sack of shit", "a lying creep", "you lying asshole" at myself, I just say "wherzat?". If Mr.Edeiken wants to persist in saying I typed the words "KKK" or "KKKK" in conjunction with Jewish but never posts the evidence, I just say "wherzat?". If Mr.Edeiken insist I endorse law suits but refuses to show where, I just say "wherzat?". Can I help it if nature has cheated Mr.Edeiken, giving him too much of things negative and not enough of the positive? He should be suing whats-its-name - god. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 02:19:04 PDT 1996 Article: 50600 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:41:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <31ead720.8612349@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31ea4f08.4551909@news.pacificnet.net> <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-1.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote: >Mr. Giwer will intervene with no answer and will predictably resort to >ad hominem attacks. Okay Giwer, stay away from this post. You draw flys. Next thing you know there are a whole bunch of rodeo clown flys buzzing around trying to divert attention away from the initial topic. >ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry >rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU Stanford University >http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080 > "Remember the days of yore, > "Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you." > -Deuteronomy 32:7 From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 21:52:27 PDT 1996 Article: 77763 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb9acd.4565915@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31eb9acd.4565915@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:42:46 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31eb9c53.4955388@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:15 PDT 1996 Article: 50868 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:22:43 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 4 Message-ID: <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: Seems every click in Nizkor brings you to a loony toon. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:16 PDT 1996 Article: 50871 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend." Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:55:39 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <31eb9129.2097805@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > Then Mr. Edeiken sent you e-mail retracting his offer. > > Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you. Doesn't > that make you a liar? You might have a legitimate complaint about him > retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information > to lay out such a complaint. If you lie by omission, you are no better > than you claim he is. How is it you would know Mr.Edeiken sent me anything? > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:16 PDT 1996 Article: 50872 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend." Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:56:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <31eb9155.2141745@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb8db5.1213567@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> Then Mr. Edeiken sent you e-mail retracting his offer. >> >> Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you. Doesn't >> that make you a liar? You might have a legitimate complaint about him >> retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information >> to lay out such a complaint. If you lie by omission, you are no better >> than you claim he is. > > How is it you would know Mr.Edeiken sent me anything? We can carry on with the next logical questions after you get done baby talking this one. >>=========================================================================== >> Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:17 PDT 1996 Article: 50873 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Just ask for Rachelle" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:05:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 33 Message-ID: <31eb9264.2412800@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31ea49f9.3256448@news.pacificnet.net> <31eb8a1b.292036@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > Another way of putting it. > > > Mr. Edeiken: > > "No you lying little scumbag. There is no "endorsement" for any >of your lies. > > Just ask for Rachelle." > -------------------- > > Her name is Rachelle (and she has read your posts). > -------------------- > > "That is why Rachelle, a very nice lady by the way, is waiting >for you. > -------------------- > "Her name -- given twice -- is Rachelle." > ____________________ > > > Wrong again, L'il Tommy. She's there (I talked to her today). >She's still waiting to hear from you. You are right, however, her >name is not "Rachelle." Of course as the initial post shows, I didn't say anything about the "name" being wrong, I said she didn't exist, that she was (and evidentally still is), "a figment of Mr.Edeiken's fabrication". From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:18 PDT 1996 Article: 50874 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend." Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:24:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: > Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you. Doesn't > that make you a liar? You might have a legitimate complaint about him > retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information > to lay out such a complaint. If you lie by omission, you are no better > than you claim he is. > I wonder if Mr.Mittleman took it on his own to post this "retracting" alibi or if Mr.Edeiken e-amiled him to post it? Mr.Edeiken didn't give it himself, he just asserted he sent e-mail to me, not mentioning any "retracting". Don't get too confortable Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman, this is not one of the ensuing "logical questions" I mentioned would be forthcoming. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:18 PDT 1996 Article: 50882 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend." Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:32:58 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <31ebb51f.11303015@news.pacificnet.net> References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.54 tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: >Mr.Edeiken: > Sure can L'il Tommy. Just ask and the full list will be e-mailed >to you. By the way, you are lying again. Didn't your mother teach >you any better? Seeing how this whole thing was taking place on the open format of alt.revisionism, one should wonder why Mr.Edeiken would opt to e-mail the alleged list to an individual instead of posting it out here. Don't get too comfortable Mr.Edeiken, this is not one of the "logical questions" to come. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 00:41:23 PDT 1996 Article: 50895 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group... (was Re: Baron exp... Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:41:26 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <31ebb688.11664037@news.pacificnet.net> References: <4r471c$691@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4rcemf$m5i@shiva.usa.net> <4sffh3$2lt@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <16JUL199606392802@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.54 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote: >> Where is a written a Jew can not be an atheist? In the dictionary. Randonm House Dictionary: "Jew, 1. A person whose religion is Judaism." > I hadn't realized you were also Jewish. Mazal tov, Mr. Giwer. And > shalom too. Giwer, I see he has signed with the secret code word for f--- you. > > daniel david mittleman >=========================================================================== > Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!" From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 01:02:29 PDT 1996 Article: 77911 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb8db5.1213567@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31eb8db5.1213567@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:53:58 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31eb90e2.2026183@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 01:02:30 PDT 1996 Article: 77912 of control Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb9025.1837076@news.pacificnet.net> Control: cancel <31eb9025.1837076@news.pacificnet.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:54:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 1 Message-ID: <31eb910c.2068420@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 07:36:34 PDT 1996 Article: 50916 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Substance and Hot Air Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:11:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 39 Message-ID: <31ebb96b.12403383@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-18.pacificnet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman along with Mr.Stein are big on alleging Moran has committed "lies", "anti-Semitisms", "evasions" and other naughty things. Moran simply asks, "Wherzat?". The trio then just reiterates the same thing. Now Moran is another story. He puts the record out here about such things as lies, corruption, racism, blustering, idiotic statements, bantering and so on. "How soon is soon" "'Just ask for Rachelle'" "'Coming to a newsgroup near you'" "Nizkor's code of responding" "The Best of Nizkor" "'I will ... this weekend'" "McVay, down by the school yard" "The cultured McVay" "Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt" "Treblinka, there, gone, there again" "Nizkor/JDL ... against evil Christians" "Boys in the Sand" "Boys in the Sand II" "Morans Dreams Vanish" .... and the host of others. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 07:36:35 PDT 1996 Article: 50951 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Tom Moran Web Browser Incompetence Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:49:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet