From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 3 06:50:07 PST 1996 Article: 83327 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!205.252.5.48!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 14:37:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS InternetLines: 45 Message-ID: <32a197ec.144397@199.0.216.204> References: <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204> <329fb074.612633@199.0.216.204> <57ohjt$64t$4@gruvel.une.edu.au> <32a24cc4.1843832@199.0.216.204> <57q894$e4l$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: >: You say Auschwitz was in Germany? Now there's a desperate >: covenience. > > >Yes it was and yes it was. > >After World War I the boundaries of Europe East of the Rhine >were re-drawn. Finland, the Baltic State, Yugoslavia, Roumania, >Poland, Czechoslovakia emrged as new countries. Some, such as >Poland and Hungary, had existed before as more-or-less independent, >autonomous nations over centuries earlier. Others had never existed >before. > >The regions along or near the new borders were usually mixed in >population so that the new borders were in dispute as soon as they >had been drawn up. > >One case was Upper Silesia, which was finally divided into three, >most being assigned to Germany, most of the rest to Poland and a >small part to Czechoslovakia. > >Germany and Poland allied to dismember Czechoslovakia in 1938 >and the reward for Poland was that it received the Teschen region. > >When Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939, Upper Silesia was re-united >with the annexation of the Polish parts of it, including Auschwitz. >That is one of the reasons IG-Farben made its largest ever single >investment in its Auschwitz plant, some 250,000,000RM. > >The fact that you are ignorant of all this comes >as little surprise to anyone who has seen the >calibre of the "research" posted by you and your >fellow "deniers". > >d.A. Never the less Auschwitz, the Auschwitz of which we talk today, was in Poland. Maybe 'occupied' Poland, or maybe 'incorporated' Poland, but never the less, in Poland. All of your own dearest beloved Holocaust literature refers to it being in Poland. It's in Poland today. Oswiecim, Poland. All your historical talk that even goes back hundreds of years, is corruption. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 3 06:50:09 PST 1996 Article: 83330 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!205.252.5.48!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: ADL, defenders of the Holocaust Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 15:22:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 59 Message-ID: <32a29a41.741103@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "If The Holocaust Never Happened Where Are The 6,000,000 Jews of Europe?" Quarter page ad by the ADL N.Y.Times, Dec.1, 1996 "The murder of 6,000,000 people simply because of their religion was undeniably one of the lowest points in the history of mankind. Our concern has been to make sure the Holocaust is never forgotten and never denied." ====================================================================== The ad goes on to tell us about programs they have to provide teachers with study aid packages and pictures two pamphlets, "Dimensions, A Journal of Holocaust Studies " and "Holocaust Denial" a "pocket guide". The one thing that is certain, this organization and the many other Jewish groups are getting plenty of unrestricted access to having their stuff put into the U.S. class room. This same organization along with all the rest are adamant on keeping any opposition from challenging them. Not by the superior procedure of meeting the demands of debate, the art of empirical analysis that the world of humans has developed over the thousands of years, but by intrigue, charging "racism", "neo-Nizism" and of course "anti-Semitism". As to their question, ""If The Holocaust Never Happened Where Are The 6,000,000 Jews of Europe?", the answer is obvious, if the Holocaust never happened, then those 6,000,000 Jews of Europe never were in the first place. And this is where all the evidence leads. This is what people would come to recognize if we didn't have the likes of the ADL, "the largest and most respected civil rights" group in the nation, working hard to keep it from being open to free discussion. The ad states the ADL is "dedicated and committed to the protection of our traditional American values of pluralism and tolerance". This would include their personal analysis of what would constitute the right of free speech. 'Dear ADL, There seems to be a growing number of people and researchers who have serious doubts about the validity of "Holocaust" accounts. Do you believe they have a right to openly air these views in our society. Since you are so active in having it made a part of the required curriculum of our education system, would you support the inclusion of what those who have their doubts? I notice you say you are out to "secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike". Yours Truly, Alt.revisionsim' [The ADL views can be found on "www.adl.org"] From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 3 06:50:09 PST 1996 Article: 83418 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: HateWatch - Monitoring Hate Groups on the Internet Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 16:19:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32a5af96.6202240@199.0.216.204> References: <326b893e.3283910@husc-news.harvard.edu><326b893e.3283910@husc-news.harvard.edu> <329c8b60.30197215@news.gte.net> <57lp2n$17e8$12@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32a19602.5162168@news.srv.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Matt Giwer has several times declared his intention to stifle all >discussion on alt.revisionism, by making the newsgroup unreadable, >until such time as all contrary opinion has been driven off. His most >recent of several attempts has quite predictably failed but not >without a premature declaration of victory. He has yet to define what >he considers a legitimate discussion which would be immune to his >censorship attempts except to say that the newsgroup is about "doing" >revisionism and being "offensive" and "in your face." >All in all, Giwer appears to be no more than a lonely, frustrated man >with a modem and time on his hands. You know Morris, you may be on to something here. >-- > John Morris > at University of Alberta >-- >The Nizkor Project | http://www.nizkor.org/ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 3 06:50:10 PST 1996 Article: 83496 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: No Fear of Air Photo Evidence? Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:30:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <32a6390e.348004@199.0.216.204> References: <32a0436f.357177@199.0.216.204> <57rf03$1geb@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <32a2f14b.3173291@news.gte.net> <5804f3$1v9i@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32a2f14b.3173291@news.gte.net>, Leprechan wrote: >>On 1 Dec 1996 08:18:11 GMT, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) wrote: >[snip] > >>>In fact, the Aug 25 footage _does_ show a large column of >>>prisoners near the railway being marched in the direction of >>>Krema II. Ball, in his ever predictable fashion, insists >>>that these photos must have been doctored by some anonymous >>>person. >> >> Although Ball has a tendency to overstate his position, he does >>clearly show by considering the time between the two pictures that if >>it is people, they are moving at a healthy jog, not walking or >>marching. > >So what? Eyewitness accounts mentioned that prisoners were often >forced to run. Why is it unusual that such an event would >be captured on film? > >> Beyond that, if you look on page 40, you will plainly see the >>Kremas at the top of the picture and that "column of prisoners" headed >>towards the bottom of the picture, that is, AWAY from the Kremas. Harmon: >Matt, there are _four_ columns of prisoners in that >photo. Two of which are standing in formation, and the >other two are marching. > >I notice you don't mention which column. why is that? Actually there are more like 6 columns, the three that are broken up into three inky black blocks, three of which are standing on the roof of a building, two smaller columns for "disinfection", and the one one that is identified as moving. Since it appears you have the book before you, your question, "I notice you don't mention which column. why is that?" is dishonest, since the one supposed to be on the move is identified and discussed in the book. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 3 15:26:37 PST 1996 Article: 83561 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Air Photo Evidence ? Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 14:28:45 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <32a3443d.563310@199.0.216.204> References: <32a3f086.634109@199.0.216.204> <57o3hd$7eb@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.54 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > >> Why wouldn't the prosecution have gone out and done the common >> recognized practice of obtaining photographic evidence for their >> position at the Holocaust trials? > > You are, once more, woefully ignorant of what was presented at the >Nuremberg trials. There were, in fact, photogarphs and movies of Auschwitz >presented as evidence. > >> Air photo evidence, or any other kind of photographic evidence? >> None? > > It was there. Descriptions of the movies and the reaction to them can >be found in Taylor, "The Anatomy of the Nurmberg Trials" (pages 316-8 -- first >paperback edition 1992) Don't you think it's ridiculous for you to cite there were movies by citing they are mentioned in some book. Haven't you tried this a number of times in the past? You should have at least given a summary of what it had to say. We don't know if the tribunal was looking at "extermination camp" footage, or footage from Bergen-Belsen, which I know there was some taken there. We're talking "extermination" camps, the documentation of intentional mass extermination. And why doesn't the ardent and adamant Holocaust promotional network use them or refer to them in their extensive sales campaign? >> Failure to obtain and present physical evidence means something. > > Yes. It means that, once more, you do not know what you are talking >about. It must be a very common feeling for you. > > --YFE From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 4 05:22:50 PST 1996 Article: 83638 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Evil Atlas / Holocaust propaganda / medical field Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 15:49:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 61 Message-ID: <32aa48d3.4384278@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Evidently there was an article in the N.Y.Times that I missed, "Doctors Question Use of Nazi's Medical Atlas". Seems there is a illustrated anatomical atlas that was created by Dr.Eduard Pernkopf sometime around the time of WWII, and is held in high esteem for it's value to medical students and the field in general. As to the "Doctors Question ..." they are identified as a Dr.Howard A. Israel and Dr.William E. Seidelman, of course. The letters are posted under the bold heading "Don't Censor Atlas, However Odious its Origin". Evidently the original article claimed, through the notions of the two doctors, that the illustrated atlas was created from the study of Holocaust victims. Under a bold heading, "Throw Away Evil Atlas" a doctor Michael J. Franzblau says it would be "futile to create a commission to investigate the allegations that Dr. Eduard Pernkopf used victims of SS executions and others murdered in the Holocaust as subjects for his atlas". He relates that the subject had been submitted to University of Vienna Medical School in 1994, and "to date, there has been no meaningful response", "meaningful" to mean they didn't cave in to the intrigue. He claims it would all be a waste of time anyway, "Investigations and commissions are a waste of time". Evidently he thinks all that is necessary is to propose the allegation and defamation and this should suffice, "This anatomical atlas by a committed Nazi, Dr. Pernkopf, is evil. The creator was evil, and it should have no place in any medical library. I suggest that it be tossed into the waste bin of time". He ends up telling us their are now better alternatives, and no lose would come from it being disposed of. The other letter, that carries no bold headline accommodation was by Kathryn A.Yaros, who starts off "Censorship may be a unworthy byproduct of Dr. Howard A.Israel's laudable quest for human identity behind Dr. Pernkopf's anatomy illustrations ..." Ms. Yaros goes on to say the atlas is one of many, and that this one is "...is an opportunity for any health practitioner to study the duality of human nature and especially for young doctors in medical schools ..." She suggests "Lets place a memorial page in the front of the atlas, even if there is no conclusive proof that the subjects were Nazi victims ..." "But let's neither censor nor limit distribution, as Dr.Israel suggests. The victim, then, would be our democracy". ======================================================================== What this shows is to what extremes Jews will go to in order to propagandize against their enemies and to air the Holocaust lie, and, to what degree they get their stuff into our major medias. It also domonstrates how readily defamations will be leveled against persons. With no proof, Dr. Israel and fellow thinkers would have the world deem a persons life time work as evil in order to perpetuate their own little cause. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 4 12:45:29 PST 1996 Article: 83700 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: soc.culture.malaysia,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.singapore,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.hongkong Subject: Re: Gross-Wiener removed Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 15:30:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <32aa98b3.588905@199.0.216.204> References: <32A4FDBD.2E84@Digital.com> <32A5406B.A3A@pc.jaring.my> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.60 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.malaysia:46235 soc.culture.canada:102813 soc.culture.singapore:66293 alt.revisionism:83700 soc.culture.hongkong:95832 > >Unfortunately, it is probably only a matter of time before we meet him >again, when he has found a new service provider. If you hear anything >from this most unsavoury character, I suggest forwarding his mail to the >postmaster of his new ISP. > >Small victories count, too. > >Bjorn Personally I don't know what this person has been up to, but don't you think you should just clobber him with dialogue? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 4 16:24:32 PST 1996 Article: 98723 of can.general Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infi.net!grouper.exis.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: can.general Subject: Re: Nine Questions "Grosvenor" won't answer (Month 8) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:37:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 5 Message-ID: <32a73a4b.664812@199.0.216.204> References: <58188n$58i@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 After a few weeks of absence, and a little discussion about "Where is McVay" and amid the latest topics, "McVay" is here with his monthly "Nine Questions ...". Is this really McVay who has posted here? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 6 04:16:46 PST 1996 Article: 84020 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!erix.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!news.uoregon.edu!news.texoma.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Another let down for the $$$$$ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 16:05:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <32ac9a60.1017430@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.38 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 For the last year or so Jewish organizations have been swarming all over Europe trying to shake down governments for Holocaust $$$$$. The most notorious claims have been against the Swiss banks, that they still hold billion$ in gold and money that belonged to Jews. The Swiss have already done an audit which turned up maybe a few million, and has been paid out. This audit was cited again a couple of weeks ago to which the "World Jewish Congress" said the findings were "pathetic". In the last couple of days Hungary has settled the barrage directed against them. The Jewish claims were that confiscated properties are worth $40,000,000,000. The Hungarian government offered to pay any Jewish "survivors" in Hungary $30 a month making it clear that no alleged 40 billion in property will be turned over to the Jews. The "World Jewish Congress" was "infuriated" but nevertheless, took what they could. Now another let down. "Finding on Postwar Swiss Accounts Issued" L.A.Times, Dec. 3, 1996 "Money from Swiss bank accounts belonging to Polish Jews who died in the Holocaust was not paid as compensation to Swiss citizens whose assets were seized by the Communists after WWII, the Polish Press Agency said. It quoted the Warsaw Foreign Ministry as saying a special cross-ministry committee reached that initial finding after probing 1949 agreements between Warsaw and Switzerland. Switzerland stands accused by U.S. Sen. Alfonso M. D'Amato of agreeing to give money to Poland from unclaimed bank accounts of Polish citizens as part of an accord on compensating Swiss nationals whose assets were seized in Communist Poland." Of course D'Amato may be the super mole in our system for Jewish causes, and he may be the only congressman out in the front trying to get the gold and money, but it isn't him in the back ground, or who was the originator of the global extortion scheme. But now that the let downs are coming in, the press is singling him out. This is what happens when you play the lackey and it fails, you become the scapegoat and the real parties go unidentified. Seems the whole extortion scheme is coming to a rapid end. The only thing that will be left is another ugly chapter for the Holocaust non-reality. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 6 04:16:47 PST 1996 Article: 84022 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Evil "Spooky" German Genes Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:32:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <32b00720.10234504@199.0.216.204> References: <32ae0673.10062369@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.76 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 I wonder what kind of genes are manifesting in Mr.Schneider when he writes on the one hand, "But this distinction is no honor. Almost all the images and stories on television draw on those 12 years when Germans perpetrated a crime the monstrous uniqueness of which only idiots question", and then goes on to criticize German officials for their attitude on Scientologists without finding any complaint about the German policy that makes doubting Holocaust accounts a crime. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 6 17:44:42 PST 1996 Article: 84181 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Potato menorah Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:28:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32b556ab.11174381@199.0.216.204> References: <32b036ad.2984844@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.35 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The Los Angeles Times The Worlds foremost Holocaust promotional paper. Working hard for the interests of the American people. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 09:54:54 PST 1996 Article: 84191 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: McVay: Who, what, how - why - and where? Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:49:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <32b85a11.12045107@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.71 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Who is there at Nizkor filing in for McVay and using his sign? What is going on? How did it all come about? Why? And where is the real McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 09:54:55 PST 1996 Article: 84239 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The giwer Throws Another Tantrum Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 15:24:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32a8978b.293024@199.0.216.204> References: <32923f8d.37412658@news.gte.net> <579tnb$cof@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <57b32f$fme$8@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32a16bcd.120342526@news.uniserve.com> <581g8t$5og@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.60 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32a16bcd.120342526@news.uniserve.com>, >hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote: > > "Chalk up another failure for the Giwer-troll, eh?! > Gee, what number do you reckon this one is, Gord? I > stopped counting at 11,163. Gotta hand it to him though, > he does excel at failure - and is very consistent to boot!!" > >Ms. Ostrov has finally found something at which this besotted >loser excels! No longer must he be referred to as a besotted >loser... from now on, we can refer to him as a _professional_ >besotted loser. Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 09:54:56 PST 1996 Article: 84267 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: edm.general,can.general,alt.revisionism,alt.censorship Subject: Re: Gauleiter Gross Wants to be Freenet Fuehrer,or Goebbels Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 14:58:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32ad8620.895826@199.0.216.204> References: <58aim4$en6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.general:99019 alt.revisionism:84267 alt.censorship:111526 >(Willy the Grossvendor prattleth) > >>If you feel that CENSHORSHIP should not be tolerated, then contact >>postmaster@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca, as well as the Auditor General of >>Canada, the Edmonton Journal,and other Canadian media. > >Postmaster, Edmonton FreeNet: > >Congratulations on your strong demonstration regarding adherance >to EFN's Terms of Service. Mr. Grosvenor showed little interest in >obeying the terms he accepted as a freenet user, and your patience >was commendible. In the end, however, ISPs have no other option >than enforcement of their terms. The alternative is chaos. > >Kenneth McVay >The Nizkor Project Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? Anyway, Nizkor boasts it's for freedom of speech and yet here we have applause for someone getting thrown off some service. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 09:54:57 PST 1996 Article: 84272 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Irish Potato Famine Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 16:12:24 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <32b396f0.5199749@199.0.216.204> References: <32b08a4b.1963239@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > > "Irish Potato Famine Is a Fit Subject for Schools" > Letter to the Editor > The bill's sponsor, Assemblyman Joseph Crowley, has noted that >the bill would not have passed without support from Jewish >legislators. How is it that the conditions of Irish history in the N.J. school system is contingent on support from Jews? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 15:47:14 PST 1996 Article: 84330 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Irish Potato Famine Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 15:49:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32b291b7.3863424@199.0.216.204> References: <32b08a4b.1963239@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > > "Irish Potato Famine Is a Fit Subject for Schools" > Letter to the Editor > The famine was not a 'natural disaster'. Beginning in 1494 ... > Contrary to those lawmakers who see this law as 'ethnic >pandering' this is a fit subject for history courses in schools." > > James Mullin "Ethnic pandering". Now there's a fitting term. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 7 17:12:56 PST 1996 Article: 84337 of alt.revisionism From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel Subject: Re: 961206: Hate Laws in Argentina Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 14:58:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 5 Message-ID: <32ab85ee.845899@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!erix.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!news.cybernet.dk!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:84337 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3173 We can bet there is a lot of huff and puff, foot stompin, self righteous, out raged indignation being expressed in Washington, D.C., at this time, perhaps daily, demanding that any doubts about the Holocaust be made a crime. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 8 07:16:39 PST 1996 Article: 84437 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Value of photographic evidence Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 14:57:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 180 Message-ID: <32a98322.129732@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Over the years, Moran has been busted for various traffic/parking violations. One time, a number of years ago, he was cited for failing to keep right while driving a truck across one the bridges from Manhattan to Brooklyn. Just before the beginning of the bridge a series of signs give ample warning for "All Trucks Must Keep Right". All across the bridge the signs were repeated every 100 feet or so. Trucks were lined up in the one lane across the whole span. Moran was the only one barreling along past the other trucks, free as the wind when he got pulled over. Over the next couple of days Moran connived for a way to beat the rap. Then Moran figured it out. Moran filed the proper notice to the courts that he was going to plead Not Guilty. A few days later, Moran drove back to the bridge in his car with a camera. Moran made sure he went there in the morning when truck traffic was heavy, and took a couple of photos of the trucks lined up bumper to bumper. A couple of weeks down the road Moran appeared at the specified court to present his case. Moran showed His Honor the photographs and how the trucks totally block out any view of the signs. His Honor ruled Not Guilty. ======================================================================= On another occasion Moran was cited for failure to take a right >from a right turn only lane. As the situation was, Moran did fail to take the right turn only, and just as he was passing through he was directed over by a cop. Actually there were about 5 cops, 3 cop cars and 2 or 3 drivers pulled over in the area that had at one time been a merge lane. Moran knew right away he could beat the rap. Too many people were being pulled over which implies improper marking. Moran made the required arrangements for a Not Guilty plea. Moran then went back to the scene of the crime where he parked in a dirt pull over area and climbed up the side of a low hill. From there he took a series of photos catching 8 or 9 shots of people going through the right hand turn only lane without turning right. The day Moran showed up for the hearing, the cop was there also. He was going to make a fight of it. This is commendable. Too many citing officers won't show up to back up a ticket, because it's a hassle. When the case was called, Moran and the cop stepped up to the table before the bench. Moran the defendant had the first choice to speak his case. Moran presented the photographic exhibits to His Honor and His Honor checked them out. Moran claimed the situation at the location of the infringement was ill or under marked and this is why so many people just drive through. His Honor and Moran had a few more words of discussion. Moran mentioned the three lanes on the highway were all marked "45" mph just before the intersecction which gave the allusion they were all equal in status. And then it was the officer's turn. He started off "Well your honor, I can see your going to go with the defendant on this but ..." After the officer ran through his opinion, Moran politely ask him a few questions, one of them about any solid white line that would designate a right turn only. The officer said it started quite a ways >from the intersection, maybe a hundred feet or more. Moran referred His Honor to one of the photos that showed the line to be only about 15 feet long. The officer was right, His Honor went with Moran. ======================================================================= Then on another occasion Moran had pulled into a handicap parking slot. Moran got a ticket. Moran pondered at times over the next couple of days of how he was going to beat the rap. A parking violation for a handicap space carries a $330 fine. There about the same time, Moran pulled into a large parking lot where he noticed a whole long line of handicap spaces, each one having it's own upright sign designating it Handicap. Since there were about 10 spaces, and each one having it's one sign, Moran realized there must be a specified code for properly marking a handicap space. Later that day Moran made a phone call and a few minutes later a call came back with the scoop. Moran made all the specified arrangements for pleading Not Guilty. He then went back to the scene of the violation. As Moran pulled into the lot and took a right up the row that leads to the handicap space, he noticed two large handicap parking only logos on the ground. As he proceeded ahead he observed his hood progressively blocking out the logo on the ground to the first handicap space. Moran parked his car, in a legitimate space of course, and then checked out the conditions of the violated space as to it's compliance with code. As the code has it, each and every handicap parking space is to have an upright sign, the large logo on the ground and the curbs painted blue. Moran took some photos. Neither spot had curbs painted blue, and only one had an upright sign, it not being the one for which Moran was cited. The only compliance between the two spots was that they both had the logos on the ground. Moran got back in his car and drove out and back in again so he could get shots of his hood coming to block out the logo on the ground. Moran figured you can buy a fair toy with $330 and he wanted to solidify his case. Moran submitted a photographic package by mail to the designated determining agency. Moran was hoping to have it heard in a court so he could play out the drama, but Malibu has it's own procedure. Anyway Moran eventually received the notice of dismissal. ========================================================================= Most recently, Moran was given a ticket for going through a Stop sign on the grounds of a VA Hospital. Right away Moran began to figure a way out of this one. The stop sign is located in a weird set up. A main road that passes before the entrance of the hospital intersects with another that meets the main road perpendicular. The main road meets the incoming road with a stop sign. But just before this there is a little right turn that is for accessing and merging onto the other road, and right where they join there is the stop sign, The stop sign. Thus when you approach the situation there are two stop signs. One for the straight option and one for the right turn option. The one for the right turn option is off set from the approaching road and does not stand out. So on this aspect Moran focused his attention for his defense. This was Moran's first Federal rap, the violation having happened on VA property. Moran was excited about the prospects of beating it. After Moran had taken care of business at the facility he retraced the course of events. As he approached the intersection he noticed not only was the stop sign in question very obscure but at times it would be cut off from view by some poles off the road. As he got closer, he noticed that his mirror would come to progressively block out view of the sign, right up til the time he was at the sign itself. By this time Moran noticed that now the sign was totally out of sight above his wind shield with only its pole visible. Moran was ecstatic. His first Federal rap and he was going to beat it. A few days later Moran made the required arrangements for pleading the usual Not Guilty. A couple of days after that Moran returned to the scene to take the necessary photos that would sew the case up in his favor. While taking one of the photos from outside the car of the general intersection, a VA cop came up and informed Moran no photos were allowed to be taken on VA grounds. Moran told him what he was up to. The cop took the position of prosecution and said Moran's pleading Not Guilty wouldn't work. Moran told him that it would be up to the judge to determine that but added that the sign in question was kind of high. The VA cop said all the signs were set to specified height. Moran's eyes bulged at the revelation. Not bothering to dispute the officer Moran told him it was no matter, it was going to be in the judges hands. As soon as Moran got done taking the necessary photos he drove around and took a look at various stop signs, having recognized the technical angle he could exploit that the VA officer unwittingly unleashed. Moran noticed right away that the stop signs on the grounds of the facility were like Mutt and Jeff. The one Moran got a ticket for was 112 inches high and various others on the grounds measured >from 88 inches to 108 inches. Anyway the day of the hearing Moran was ready with the photographic evidence and prepared to argue the technical angle. As it turned out all Moran had to do is present his evidence to the prosecution attorney who was doing preliminary interviews in the hallway. Moran just introduced the photos, knowing they were sufficient and the technical angle would just look like scheming. The attorney nodded as he looked through the photos and by the time he got to the last one his head was nodding even more and he announced he was going to recommend the charge be dismissed. Ah yes, good old photographic evidence. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 8 08:37:36 PST 1996 Article: 84439 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Potato menorah Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 14:58:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32ac8612.882150@199.0.216.204> References: <32b036ad.2984844@199.0.216.204> <32b556ab.11174381@199.0.216.204> <58aan3$v6k@news.ccit.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: > >: The Los Angeles Times > >: The Worlds foremost Holocaust promotional paper. > >: Working hard for the interests of the American people. > >Interesting. By what rationale do you conclude the LA Times to be more >"foremost" in its Holocaust promotion than the NY Times? > >Just wondering if there is any logic behind your rants, zeyde. They might to be too close to call. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 9 05:19:24 PST 1996 Article: 84553 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Irish Potato Famine Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 15:35:50 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 34 Message-ID: <32b08a4b.1963239@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "Irish Potato Famine Is a Fit Subject for Schools" Letter to the Editor N.Y.Times, Dec.7, 1996 "A Dec. 1 news article on the New York State law mandating the teaching in schools of the Irish potato famine quotes John Kerr, the British Ambassador, as saying, apparently in response to a statement by Gov. George E. Pataki when he signed the bill, that it seemed 'insulting to the many millions who suffered and died in concentration camps across Europe to imply that their man-made fate was in any way analogous to the natural disaster in Ireland. The bill's sponsor, Assemblyman Joseph Crowley, has noted that the bill would not have passed without support from Jewish legislators. The famine was not a 'natural disaster'. Beginning in 1494 ... Contrary to those lawmakers who see this law as 'ethnic pandering' this is a fit subject for history courses in schools." James Mullin New Jersey Irish Famine Curriculum Committee Poor Poor Patties of today. They had some of their relatives die hundreds of years ago. They might not, probably don't have any idea of who they were, maybe not even knowing their names, but nevertheless, acting like Jews, pining over some history. "Ethnic pandering". Now there's a righteous discription of this and the Holocaust curriculum requirement. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 9 08:05:59 PST 1996 Article: 84634 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:51:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32b033ef.1222136@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> <32aab7ea.8334649@199.0.216.204> <32b3e937.20955535@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># When looking at the 1944 photograph of Treblinka, keep in mind ># there is Holocaust accounting that has the camp as being over-run ># by the Soviets while it was still in full operation. > >Tommy, according to all sources I have seen, the camp was >partially destroyed in the August 1943 sonderkommando rebellion, >and later that year dismantled by the SS. This was long before >the Soviets liberated the area. > >Perhaps you're confusing Treblinka and Maidanek? Nope. The testimonial evidence for the Holocaust has it Treblinka was over run while it was still in full bloom. Nizkor files/Old Frogs Almanac. When you say "all" sources you have read, which ones are they? And, how many? One or two? Treblinka never was a "camp" of any kind. >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 10 05:43:06 PST 1996 Article: 84779 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" - Treblinka Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:21:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <32b9491a.6640926@199.0.216.204> References: <329ba952.15778030@199.0.216.204> <32a2df3e.351684@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># Even though the 1944 photograph shows Treblinka to be nothing ># more than a clearing, agriculture, some trees and three or four ># buildings, > >Could this have anything to do with the fact that the camp was >partially destroyed in the sonderkommando rebellion, and then >dismantled (in 1943)? No. There was no rebellion. There were no buildings. There are no signs of there ever being any buildings, other than what is shown in the 1944 photo. >What about the huge amounts of human remains and ashes in the camp? > ># Holocaust accounting has it the camp was over-run by the ># Soviets while it was still in full operation. > >You're either hallucinating, or confusing it with >Maidanek. Treblinka was dismantled long before the Soviets >occupied the area. Nizkor files/Old Frogs Almanac: Nizkor "treblinka .02" quotes from the "Old Frogs Almanac" - "When the Russians took over the Treblinka complex and the nearly dead survivors ... there was no lack of physical evidence". Notice under other clickables where it is said "The suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars ..." were there also. >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 10 08:58:54 PST 1996 Article: 38401 of alt.politics.nationalism.white Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:29:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: <32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.54 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:340445 alt.discrimination:57973 alt.politics.white-power:51710 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38401 alt.skinheads:45143 alt.conspiracy:118802 alt.religion.islam:35787 alt.revisionism:84854 soc.culture.jewish:98987 >In article , civil@anet-stl.com >(Parker Beatley) wrote: > >> Guess what? The Jews in Israel? They hate immigrants, too. Read on.... >> > >And this has what to do with Holocaust revisionism? Poor Sara. She doesn't have anything to say about the post except what she has said. She doesn't even dispute it. Israel is the product of the Holocaust story. The Jews are constantly crying how they are the victims when in fact they create more victims than any other. >Sara >posted/e-mailed > >-- >"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the >Christian religion." > George Washington, 1796 Israel is a Jewish state. Jewish aside from being a racist movement, is a religious group. Therefore U.S. aid to Israel is in defiance of any "separation of church and state". But Sara doesn't see it that way. She's just ethnocentrically insane and can't see it. She's deranged. She's Jewish, Jewish and nothing but Jewish. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:05 PST 1996 Article: 84935 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:03:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 4 Message-ID: <32bd356b.67137079@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:340558 alt.discrimination:58001 alt.politics.white-power:51741 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38437 alt.skinheads:45170 alt.conspiracy:118902 alt.religion.islam:35818 alt.revisionism:84935 soc.culture.jewish:99090 >Guess what? The Jews in Israel? They hate immigrants, too. Read on.... From reading their material for over 15 years it is my opinion that Jews in general just hate others, in general. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:06 PST 1996 Article: 84936 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Blackmore/Bellinger Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 23:02:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <32b8f73b.29851078@199.0.216.204> References: <585jul$1f8e$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <585jul$1f8e$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <588ja4$atj@juliana.sprynet.com> <58cjgg$olg$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <58crlh$spd@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <58cjgg$olg$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, >gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) asks of Mr. Blackmore/Bellinger > >> Explain to me why "experts" such as David Irving and Robert Faurisson >> have accepted the recording as genuine? > >As Mr. Blackmore/Bellinger has shown himself to be a strong >supporter of Mr. Irving, and his veracity, he would seem to have >hoisted himself to rather dismal heights with this business of the >Himmler tape.. I predict he will fail to notice the question; he >certainly can't answer it, having damned himself by doing the >giwer as regards the tape... unless, of course, he concludes that, >contrary to previous belief, he now sees Irving exposed as liar >and charlatan? > >Speaking of Irving, his recent lawsuit against a British Jewish >organization was summarily thrown out of court. The organization >was granted costs. That's another libel suit Mr. Irving lost. >(May there be many more.) > >Tough, eh, Gordie? Hilary, is that you? What have yu done with McVay? >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org >-----------------------| Remember John Hron > |-------------------------------------- > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/ From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:07 PST 1996 Article: 84937 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:58:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <32b544ec.5570987@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Eye witness testimony has it that at another camp there were rooms off a corridor with large doors on the opposite side of each room for unloading the bodies after being gassed, and another camp having it the floors tilted up so the bodies would slide out. Compared to the crematoriums at Auschwitz these would be high tech, state of the art, cutting edge designs, so how the Germans came up with the design for Cremas II and III is wonder. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:07 PST 1996 Article: 84938 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Schwarzhuber Testifies About Ravensbrueck Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:53:56 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <32b0e316.1742166@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing >in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp >[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the >Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and >A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 187] >----------------------------------------------------------------- >At the end of February 1945 I was called with Dr. Trommer to the >office of the camp commandant, Sturmbannfuehrer Suhren. Suhren >informed us that he had received an order from Reichsfuehrer Himmler >to liquidate all the women who were sick or unable to walk. Before >giving us this information, he asked us how many sick women there >were in the camp. I explained to the commandant that I had been glad to >leave Auschwitz and would not like to repeat that experience. He then >told me that Sturmbannfuehrer Sauer, deputy to the camp commandant, had >been put in charge of the execution. Sure, he was called into the office and the commodant told him Himmler sent him orders. This witness also says he filed his complaint when other testimony offered by Mr.Keren has it no one dared complain. > > . > . > . > Some of Mr.Keren's oft deleted testimony. >I witnessed a gassing. A hundred and fifty women, all at once, were >pushed into the gas chamber. Hauptscharfuehrer Moll ordered the women >to undress and told them that a delousing was going to take place. They >were then pushed into the chamber, and the door was bolted. A male >prisoner, wearing a gas mask, climbed up onto the roof and, through >an opening which he closed again immediately afterward, threw a can of >gas into the room. I heard groans and moans. After two or three minutes, >there was silence in the chamber. > Here is an example of what the usual testimony has. The witness said he saw "a" gassing. Its always "one time" or "once" and here it is "a" gassing. AT other camps it was SS cadre that introduced the pellet gas and here it was a prisoner. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:08 PST 1996 Article: 84939 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:43:39 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 4 Message-ID: <32bc4e7e.8021192@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.65 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Identifying the buildings Crema II and III as facilities for mass extermination and disposal could be likened to pointing at the Taj Mahal and declaring it was a bowling alley. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:09 PST 1996 Article: 84940 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!151.196.0.36!world2.bellatlantic.net!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:27:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <32b11ebd.61331012@199.0.216.204> References: <32a9c871.2323821@news.gte.net> <58d819$o1t@news.enter.net> <32ab5a08.279786841@news.micron.net> <58h9uc$hdk@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <58hfjb$qj2@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Brian Smith (kurtstel@micron.net) tries that Old National Alliance >Two-Step one more time: > >> The defense can challenge foundation otherwise anyone can produce a >> any tape saying anything and have it admitted without the need for any >> testing whatsoever. Revisionists challenge the tape and it would not >> be permitted without authentication. > >Poor Mr. Smith... his "revisionist" heros _don't_ challenge the >tape... what _is_ a poor Nazi to do? (Perhaps his puppeteers at >the National Alliance can do the White Folks Polka and come >up with better material - it will be humiliating if Smith ever >figures out how stupid Pierce is making him appear.) > >David Irving does not challenge the tape. >Friedrich Berg does not challenge the tape. >Greg Raven does not challenge the tape (he simply denies it has > anything to do with the "final solution") > >Poor Mr. Smith.... even his giwer isn't working. > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org >-----------------------| Remember John Hron Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:10 PST 1996 Article: 84941 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!news.apfel.de!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Information on the Trial of Nuremberg Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:25:43 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <32b01bb8.60558547@199.0.216.204> References: <32ACAC46.29C9@rotan.eur.nl> <58h9h4$jg0@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> "D. W. Kuilman" writes: >> We're a High School form the Netherlands and we're looking for any information >about the >> war criminals Seyss-Inquart, Goebbels, Goerring and Jodl, because we're going to >replay >> the trials of Nuremberg for the subject History. If you have any information, please >be >> so kind and send it to use. Maybe we can use it. >> Greetings, >> Linda Hazeveld >> the Erasmus College, Zoetermeer, the Netherlands, Europe >> >>>>> > Assuming that the complete record of the IMT is not available to you, I >suggest you check out the Nizkor site, http://www.nizkor.org. The first volume of >the record and some other material is already on line. You might also try Telford >Taylor's "The Anatomy of the Nuremberg Trials" which is still in print. Taylor was >one of the prosecutors at the trials and highly regarded as an attorney after the trials. > His book will give you a good idea of the "flavor" of the trials rather than just a >recounting of what happened. > > --YFE I would suggest you look into other sources of commentary on the Nuremberg Trials while your at it. The one by Taylor is one that is most often cited by those who are so adamant on perpetuating the Holocaust story. Of course the best source would be the trial transcripts themselves. Mr.Edeiken might find it better to seek out the '"flavor"' of the trials, whatever that means, but I would suggest you seek out the essence. Was any evidence sound? Was the defense sufficient? Were the findings fair? I would also suggest you have some information of what was introduced at the trials as fact and evidence at the time and is no longer held to be correct today. The biggest whopper was that 4 million died at Auschwitz-Birkenau, which is currently around 1 million. With a gigantic miscalculation like that one we should be ready to look at other 'details'. Tom Moran > --YFE From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:10 PST 1996 Article: 84942 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Worthless Photo Evidence Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:32:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 70 Message-ID: <32af3068.318565@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The following list of Nizkor URLs for accessing photographs submitted to alt.revisionism by Mr.Keren. A short description of most of the photos and comments has been added. >[fascinating stories deleted] > ># Ah yes, good old photographic evidence. > >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images Post war photos of Typhus victims having nothing to do with any "exterminations". >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images Body parts diplayed. Who, what - not captioned. >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images Long mass grave with one layer of bodies. Uncaptioned with any details as to who took the photo, or what it is supposed to have been from. >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images Bodies layed out among ruins. Uncaptioned as to any details, who what and how. Could be any where. Could be Germans. >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images .01 Two prisoners standing over two charred bodies. Who took the photo, who are the victims? Not captioned. .02 Three bodies along a three foot barbed wire fence. Who, how, not captioned. .03 Three grotesque badly burned bodies. Who, how, not captioned. >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images Righteous pile of what could be all bodies. Who, how, not captioned. Under "Majdanek" ".01, .02, .03, "gas chambers" no image available when clicked on. >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/ Building with wall or something in foreground with a few body remains. Who, how, not captioned. (I believe it was captioned at one time as a crmeatorium at Majdanek.) >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/ >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/ >-Danny Keren. None of the photos are captioned as to who or how. No caption remark on who took or submitted any of the photos. Just photos. The presentation of these photos is corrupt. The presenters intentionaly omit all of the above to leave it up to the viewer to accept the photos as proof of the Holocaust. As far as any one would know, some of the photos could be of German soldiers. I would suspect that some of the photos may have been submitted by the Russians Presentation or referral to the photos as evidence for the Holocaust story is corrupt. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:11 PST 1996 Article: 84956 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.irco.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Information on the Trial of Nuremberg Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:36:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32bb4dfe.7893271@199.0.216.204> References: <32ACAC46.29C9@rotan.eur.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.65 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >We're a High School form the Netherlands and we're looking for any information about the >war criminals Seyss-Inquart, Goebbels, Goerring and Jodl, because we're going to replay >the trials of Nuremberg for the subject History. If you have any information, please be >so kind and send it to use. Maybe we can use it. >Greetings, >Linda Hazeveld >the Erasmus College, Zoetermeer, the Netherlands, Europe I would recommend you take note of the procedure and see if it fits in with legal procedures in the Netherlands, which I would suppose carries a high ideal. Maybe you could consider the events where the Soviets insisted on introducing the slaughter at Katyn Forest which they themselves committed and recently confessed to, and the Allies, having the conviction the massacre was committed by the Soviets, sat back and let it happen. As to information on Goebbels, maybe you could look into the book by David Irving with the title of "Goebbels". Tom Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:12 PST 1996 Article: 85021 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 17:09:19 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 3 Message-ID: <32b847a5.6267381@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Then we have the circumstances of Cremas IV and V being built in yet another way. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 11 06:35:13 PST 1996 Article: 85029 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Dr. Klein Testifies About Auschwitz Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:44:59 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <32aee215.1484677@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein >[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and >Company, 1949.p. 717] >---------------------------------------------------------------- >When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick >out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, >old people and the sick. > I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria >at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas >chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz. "I have seen the gas chambers ..."? Does his testimony have any discription of these gas chambers? Mr.Keren? > . > . > . > >I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, >although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 05:22:54 PST 1996 Article: 85137 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!freenet.unbc.edu!news.scn.org!news.abs.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:30:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32b0fd8b.20459617@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <32bd356b.67137079@199.0.216.204> <32AE058F.246D@columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.157 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:341010 alt.discrimination:58117 alt.politics.white-power:51824 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38538 alt.skinheads:45248 alt.conspiracy:119281 alt.religion.islam:35904 alt.revisionism:85137 soc.culture.jewish:99277 >tom moran wrote: >> >> >Guess what? The Jews in Israel? They hate immigrants, too. Read on.... >> >> From reading their material for over 15 years it is my opinion >> that Jews in general just hate others, in general. > > >Ok, now tell me that THAT is not antisemitism. > >Avital Pilpel. It's up to you to say it is. After you announce it you can prove it. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 05:22:55 PST 1996 Article: 85204 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!199.94.215.18!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:04:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <32be357d.67154984@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> <32b3e937.20955535@199.0.216.204> <32b033ef.1222136@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># Nope. The testimonial evidence for the Holocaust has it ># Treblinka was over run while it was still in full bloom. ># Nizkor files/Old Frogs Almanac. > >Where? Which files? What is the original source quoted in >these files? You have to be more specific. There are many >files in the site you mention. > ># Treblinka never was a "camp" of any kind. > >Tommy, you can't just say such things and expect to be >taken seriously by any rational person, more so as you >offer no support whatsoever for your claim. > >When you were a five-year-old, you could just say things, >and that would be ok; that's what five-year-olds do. But >you're now sixty-years-old, right? You have to try and >justify your claims. > > >-Danny Keren. Now we have Mr.Keren doubting eyewitness accounts for the Holocaust. It is obvious he finds it disturbing, which is interesting. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 05:22:56 PST 1996 Article: 85205 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:08:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32bdcc3d.7837632@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 As to the general architectural design of the building, it has an aesthetic appeal. Made of stone, with tile roof, dormers and - windows. Windows galore. Large double windows, running the full length of the building. All this giving the crematoriums the appearance they could be union halls, or mess halls, class rooms or whatever. What with having to stack bodies inside by the hundreds, thousands, having windows running the full length doesn't seem to fit in with what we are told was a place especially designed and built for mass extermination and disposal. We can only picture the bodies being stacked inside so that they either are stacked high directly in front of each window, which is hard to fathom, or they are stacked to the sill wherever there were windows and more are stacked higher in between. With the second option we could picture the scene to look like a sawtooth sequence of pyramided bodies. The fact the buildings had all these windows sorely stresses the claim they were designed for the stealth extermination of thousands or were places especially designed that would include accomodation for the storage of bodies while awaiting cremation. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 05:22:58 PST 1996 Article: 85207 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:40:54 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <32b1358d.1635831@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Identifying or verifying mass graves from the existing photos of Treblinka taken in 1944 is not possible. In fact the photos suggest nothing was buried there. Well known to the world of botany is the fact that certain plants prefer certain kinds of soil. This means they would thrive better in one kind than another, and it would be noticeable. Try growing a patch of tomatoes say, in sandy clay and another in highly organic humus soil and you will get two very distinct results. Geologic studies clearly show that soils in any particular area have a sequential composition from the surface on down to lower depths. The surface layer of soil over bedrock is known as regolith. Thus we could have a sandy composition near the surface with it changing to clay as we dig down. Whatever the local composition, it will be one thing at the surface and something lower down. Even if we had sand going down the 20 feet, the sand at the surface would be modified by the growing and dying of vegetation. Thus, if we took a quantity of soil from the surface and a quantity from say 20 feet down and then grew the same kind of plants in it, we would get a different results from one to the other. Thusly too, if we dug a trench and then filled it back in, the sequences would be mixed and that at the surface would now be different from the adjacent area. Aerial photographs of Treblinka show agriculture having been expanded around the area identified as the camp, with some it extending right into the area. Not only this, the expansion has taken place right over some of where the mass graves were said to have been. In the case of the aerial photographs of Treblinka we can not see any signs of difference in the encroaching agriculture over the grave site area and the field it extends from. The part over the alleged grave sites that has not been cultivated tends to be homogeneous with the rest in the immediate proximity. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 05:56:30 PST 1996 Article: 38553 of alt.politics.nationalism.white Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power Subject: Re: How does it feel to count the money, Mr. Zundel? Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:13:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 41 Message-ID: <32aeeb29.15753368@199.0.216.204> References: <199612100050.QAA30820@mailmasher.com> <58mk0f$es4@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.148 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:112112 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38553 alt.politics.white-power:51838 >X-Horsepucky: In article <199612100050.QAA30820@mailmasher.com>, >seneca wrote: > >>Ken McVay OBC wrote: > >>> >Writes Ernst: > >>> > "Anybody who has investigated the shenanigans of the Holocaust profiteers > >>> How does one feel, Mr. Zundel, knowing of the pain one has >>> deliberately inflicted on these human beings? Does it give you >>> pleasure when you count the money? > >>Talk about the Big Lie technique. I suppose all the multi-millionaires and >>billionaires supporting Ken McVay and his ilk are fictional. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Translation: Mr. Zundel's promotion and sale of the videotape "Das >Lachout Dokument," which promotes a document proven to be a >blatant forgery, and which promotes Emil Lachout, the proven >forger, provides income for Mr. Zundel. I will not address how Mr. >Zundel feels when he counts the money, as it is more than a tad >embarrassing to admit that he profits from the Holocaust. The Jews having profited billion$, hundreds of billion$, now we see Hilary coming on like Zundel is in it for the profit. >>Ernst Zundel must be the most courageous man on Earth. But unfortunately (and >>not by coincidence), he's not very wealthy. > >Translation: I will divert attention from Mr. Zundel's Holocaust >profiteering. > >>So McVay, how did your latest death-squad attack go? > >So, Mr. Zundel, how does it feel when you count the money? > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Hilary, what have you done with McVay? Or what has McVay done with himself? From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:24 PST 1996 Article: 85239 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Another let down for the $$$$$ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:29:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <32ae305f.309831@199.0.216.204> References: <32ac9a60.1017430@199.0.216.204> <32A5AF5A.2EF6@rio.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Chuck Ferree wrote: > > >tom moran wrote: > >what he read in a newspaper. Moran has no original thoughts. Some say >Moran has no thoughts...period. Whatever!!! Chuck, did you say this? "I do not understand any of this, but this man knows what he's talking about. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:28 PST 1996 Article: 85240 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" - Treblinka Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:05:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 67 Message-ID: <32ae194c.59938773@199.0.216.204> References: <329ba952.15778030@199.0.216.204> <32a2df3e.351684@199.0.216.204> <32b9491a.6640926@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32b9491a.6640926@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) >wrote: > >> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >> > >> ># Even though the 1944 photograph shows Treblinka to be nothing >> ># more than a clearing, agriculture, some trees and three or four >> ># buildings, >> > >> >Could this have anything to do with the fact that the camp was >> >partially destroyed in the sonderkommando rebellion, and then >> >dismantled (in 1943)? >> >> No. There was no rebellion. > >And the Moran's(tm) sources for this amazingly stupid statement is? > >Interesting, is it not, that Arad has several chapters of his book, >_Belzac, Sobibor, and Treblinka: the operation Reinhard death camps_, >dedicated to the Treblinka uprising which too place on August 2, 1943? You say there is something written in a book? You say "several chapters"? Of course this would be 'testimony' - right? Would anyone be able to prove any of it? Is there any documentation other than what someone said? > >> There were no buildings. > >Interesting, is it not, that Arad includes several pictures, from the Kurt >Franz Album, of buidings and structures at Treblinka? Or does tghe >Moran(tm) insist that the "zoo" (cf. Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor, and >Treblinka_, p.93), for example, did not exist? Now this is more like it. "Pictures". You say Arad's book includes several pictures, from the Kurt Franz Album? Are any of these pictures carried by other Holocaust books, museums, websites - like - Nizkor? If not, would you know why? >And the Moran's(tm) sources for this amazingly stupid statement is? > > >> There are no signs of there ever being any buildings, other than what is >shown in the 1944 photo. > >And the Moran's(tm) sources for this amazingly stupid statement is? > >Interesting, is it not, that Arad includes several pictures, from the Kurt >Franz Album, of buidings and structures at Treblinka? Or does tghe >Moran(tm) insist that the "zoo" (cf. Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor, and >Treblinka_, p.93), for example, did not exist? I consider it to be what aerial photos show it to have been in 1940 and what it came to be in 1944 with any changes taking place in between. I might think this book by Arad might be a bit difficult for people to get a hold of and it might be a service of Nizkor to include these photos in their files. After all, they are out there as an "educational resource" and educational institutes should strive to be thorough, especially one that is specialized to a certain topic like Nizkor. One might suppose it would be a benefit to their cause for selling the Holocaust story as true. Or perhaps you could post them yourself. The rest of Mr.Van Alstine's stuff deleted as irrelevant. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:31 PST 1996 Article: 85242 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!204.71.1.48!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:56:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 2 Message-ID: <32b34487.5469706@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Sort of like the square peg in a round hole. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:33 PST 1996 Article: 85248 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news.minn.net!visi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!205.252.5.48!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Crematorium logistics Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:53:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 193 Message-ID: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.61 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 When going over photographs of Auschwitz-Birkenau and trying to make something out of them, it is eyewitness versus the photo. What the eye witnesses say and what the photos say. The photos offer nothing for thought without prior knowledge of the story. The story is based on eyewitness testimony. The only thing left to do is to see if the testimonies are made fact or even feasible by the photographic evidence. When looking at aerial reconnaissance photos of the buildings Cremas II and III, two alleged centers of mass extermination, it would be completely natural to try and put the elements of the story to the photo. As to Auschwitz-Birkenau there are ample eyewitness testimonies, discordant as they are, that give the details. That; The people were taken there by the thousands, each day, for months. They entered into the building. They were led down stairs to subterranean gas chambers. They were made to strip naked. Gassed. Their bodies brought back up the stairs (or elevator). They were then stacked on the first floor in the same large room where the ovens were. When room ran out in there, the bodies were taken out side and stacked in the yard. The bodies were brought back in when there was room. The gassed victims were cremated to ashes and blackened hulks of charred bone. The remains were taken outside to a crushing machine and further reduced to smaller sizes. The ashes were then taken away. ------------- As we precede with trying to get a conceptual picture of the above list taking place in concordance with photos and plans, we should keep in mind that thousands a day are said to have gone through the sequence, and the activity in and around the building would have been continuous minute by minute. Now when looking at aerial photos of Cremas II or III they are usually presented with the viewer looking west. The cremas are aligned long wise to east/west. Photos of these cremas can show Crema II to have had a fence in two different places. Foregoing any discussion about this we could focus on applying the above listed eyewitness accounts to the buildings themselves. We can focus on Crema II because it gets 99% of the attention in the Holocaust story. Crema II and III were about identical in size and design and were about 40 feet across and 100 feet long. The people are said to have been brought in from the rail line that entered the camp from the east side and terminated at and between, but not past, the two cremas. The people were unloaded at a platform about 150 meters (yards +) east of the crema compounds. They were led through the entrance to the compound and led over the 100 or so feet to the building. There are a number of photos of this building taken on the ground. Some are from the south side (the rear), some from the north side (from the rail tracks), as well as one from the east side, taken while it was under construction. There are also some plans available said to have been by the Germans and agreeing with the photographs. All ground photos were taken by the Germans themselves. When considering the aerial photos, the ground photos and the plans of Crema II and trying to combine them with eyewitness testimony, a lot of problems arise. Doors. Where were the doors that the victims went through? Where were the doors that the exterminating workers took the bodies outside for storage when the inside got filled up? Where were the doors that where used for taking the charred carcasses and ashes out and the coal in? Where were the doors that workers carried out all the discarded clothing? By the time we get done examining which of three doors would be the best candidate for whatever, we can get the idea all the above activity took place through no more than two doors. The ground photos and plans show only doors on each end of the building and at the ell where the chimney is located. The chimney is located almost directly in the center of the ell. The chimney is made of brick and quite wide, which for construction reference could be called massive. It would require being set on to a solid foundation directly associated with the ground in lieu of say only going to the rafters of the ell extension. Thus we can see in the photos that it must have taken up quite a bit of the breadth of the ell on the inside, which gives the image that there may be sidle room only past it to the interior of the main building. The center of the main building, where the ovens are said to have been was a large room making up maybe 2/3 of the building's length. No other doors are on that side, the one with the ell. Photos of the other side (south) show only a little over half of the building with no doors visible. If there were any doors they would have to exit or enter from on top of the cellar identified as the gas chamber. So we are left with two doors. One at one end and one at another end. These doors appear to be double multiple pane, 'French Door' style. At the west end the building we have a cellar extending out as an underground extension of the long dimension of the surface building. >From the south side another cellar extends out perpendicular from near the same end at the southwest corner. A number of photographs exist that show these cellars, which in the aerial shots are revealed by shadows which means most or all of the cellar structures are above ground and/or covered over with a earthen layer with a rise of about a meter(3 feet). What kind of arrangement there was at the cellars end of the building for doors is kind of hard to conceive, since it would seem the raised section of the cellars were continuous right up to the building. If the people entered in at the east door, this would mean they would have to run the 70 foot gauntlet past piled up bodies, scenes of bodies being put into ovens, ashes and blackened charred body parts being pulled out in order to get to the gas chamber at the other end. (There is an eyewitness testimony that says victims were led past the stacks of bodies and cremation scene.) If they entered at the other end (west) they would be entering over one of the cellars. Now whether or not the cellar was raised right there or not is up for grabs. Crematorium plans by the Germans themselves show three doors, all corresponding to where the doors are already discussed. Considering the elevated nature of the cellars at the west end it seems this end wouldn't have been a good one for any of the things said to have happened by eyewitness testimonies. Bodies being stacked up for lack of room inside, piles of charred carcasses, a crushing machine, a truck backed in, all the people like sondercommando workers, carrying a body in or out, carrying out remains, carrying in coal, and SS guards, and at times, doctors and aids there pouring in the pellets, all taking place in this up and down local terrain created by the cellars. In fact we could consider the cellars sticking three feet above the rest of the ground to be just wide walls. The other end would have been 80 or 90 feet away from the where the victims were gassed and a poor choice for some steps of the routine. The German crematorium plans for the interiors show smaller rooms at each end of the building. Bathrooms, offices and lounge room. This complicates the picture in itself. Trying to put eyewitness testimony to the exterior plans and photos is difficult enough in itself, but once you have the interior plans in your head, trying to formulate a picture for the in and out activity gets even more elusive. The over all procedure for trying to grasp the course of events as to eyewitness testimony versus photos would be to try and determine through which of the two doors each extermination step took place. Thus, do we have the victims entering into the east door or the west door? Are the charred remains carried out the east door or the west door? Which door is used for carrying out the bodies when the inside gets filled up? Through which door do the victims enter? Well, what with the number of extermination steps being attested to by eyewitness testimonies, we have a number of possible combinations as to what took place through which doors, and no matter what combination we pick to consider, the picture is ridiculous. Many buildings have been built over the centuries, from temples to pyramids to factories and stores and even on to those other buildings at Aschwitz-Birkenau itself. For the very most part, or even the whole part, we can see the significance of a building's design as to it's purpose, but for the cremas, they stand as lone contradictions among the rest. Putting it all together we can see the building is far from being a appropriate design for what it is alleged to have been for. What with any ill situated exterior doors, interior doors, stairs, hall ways and obstructing elevations in the yard, it would be a logistical nightmare. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:34 PST 1996 Article: 85249 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!dimensional.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!151.196.0.36!world2.bellatlantic.net!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Grosvenor's woe Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:03:20 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32ad1934.59914441@199.0.216.204> References: <32A42B25.54E7@concentric.net> <32A56DF8.6585@concentric.net> <32a71be6.1695201@news.micron.net> <58erjl$9oj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article , >William "Gruber is a Jewish name" Grosvenor, posing >inappropriately as "WAHRHEIT" wrote: > >>Actually I have laid the charges with the RCMP against the person with >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>Edmonton freenet, which is a business for which I paid a year in advance, >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>and is not free!!! >> >>They have now SWINDLED me out of the year's prepayment of service fees. > >Translation: I agreed to abide by the Edmonton Freenet's Terms of Service. >Had I not done so, they would not have permitted me to use the system. I >then violated those selfsame terms, and was quite properly turfed. >(Those Wascally Joos made me do it!) Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org >-----------------------| Remember John Hron > |-------------------------------------- > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/ From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 07:45:35 PST 1996 Article: 85251 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!204.71.1.48!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Worthless Photo Evidence Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:02:57 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 5 Message-ID: <32bb352b.67073256@199.0.216.204> References: <32af3068.318565@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 And to think, Nizkor is run by a synagogue. Well so much for god and honesty. But, then again, the Jews are "Chosen" and anything that may be a sin with others is alright by their god if they opt for the same. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 10:45:27 PST 1996 Article: 85263 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!chi-news.cic.net!dragonfly.wolfram.com!feeder.chicago.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: McVay: Who, what, how - why - and where? Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:59:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 32 Message-ID: <32b2e5b8.2415491@199.0.216.204> References: <32b85a11.12045107@199.0.216.204> <58dbbu$s0k$17@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In message <32b85a11.12045107@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran)Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:49:49 GMT writes: >:> >:> >:> Who is there at Nizkor filing in for McVay and using his sign? > >Der ewige Jude. > >:> What is going on? > >It's a plot, zeyde. > >:> How did it all come about? > >It's a secret, zeyde. > >:> Why? > >I can't say, zeyde. > >:> And where is the real McVay? > >He's everywhere, zeyde. > > >-- >Gord McFee >I'll write no line before its time Seems "McFee" agrees with Moran that something is up at Nizkor and McVay is missing. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 10:45:27 PST 1996 Article: 85266 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: edm.general,can.general,alt.revisionism,alt.censorship Subject: Re: Grossvenor's bum's rush [freenet.edmonton.ab.ca] Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:40:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 5 Message-ID: <32b70b0b.568638@199.0.216.204> References: <58c7g2$137i@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <32ab5ddb.280765878@news.micron.net> <58n1j5$iht$2@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58n0h4$nh8@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.general:99434 alt.revisionism:85266 alt.censorship:112147 >In article <58n1j5$iht$2@gryphon.phoenix.net>, >"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net wrote: >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 10:45:28 PST 1996 Article: 85270 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!swidir.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!tezcat!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:53:08 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <32bbc2f0.5456469@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.17.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Another major logistically nonsensical thing about the cremas is the rail line. As mentioned in the lead article, this rail line into Birkenau terminated at but not past the cremas. Logistically, the sensible design would have been to have the rail line go past the cremas so the people could be unloaded right there at the entrances on each side instead of having it where only the locomotive or last car was immediately proximate, depending on whether or not the train pulled in straight, locomotive first, or was backed in. Instead, the system was set up so that the alleged victims would have to walk over 150 yards to the cremas from the loading/unloading platform, past a good part of the women's compound on one side and the mens compound on the other side. Thousands a day being brought in to be marched in clear view of thousands of inmates never to show up in the compound. Eyewitness testimony has it that the Germans had put up intertwining branches in the barbed wire fences to obstruct any viewing of the thousands a day being led off down the tracks to the cremas. This is the eyewitness testimony. A number of photos show something else - the reverse in fact. New arrivals on the platform with the barbed wire fence around the women's compound in the back ground, with absolutely no obstructions and a clear view of the barracks, meaning the view was vice versa. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 17:20:50 PST 1996 Article: 85287 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:57:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <32b1e4a1.2136582@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> <32a76498.7982195@news.gte.net> <32a8ce91.3025873@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Mr.Keren, you never dropped in to make comment on discussion of the 1940 and 1944 photos of the area said to have been Treblinka "extermination camp". Mr.Keren, the 1944 photos show nothing more than expanded agriculture in the area and a few buildings, while Holocaust allegations are that the Soviets arrived at the camp while it was still in full operation. Any comment? From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 17:20:50 PST 1996 Article: 85290 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:36:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <32b60a26.339711@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204> <01bbe79b$fc85e0c0$e5809710@sheldon.ako.dec.com> <58nj6v$iut@sf18.dseg.ti.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:341304 alt.discrimination:58192 alt.politics.white-power:51893 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38618 alt.skinheads:45335 alt.conspiracy:119532 alt.religion.islam:35966 alt.revisionism:85290 soc.culture.jewish:99471 > >Despite the fact that Israel allows almost any Jewish Person to move there, >and does not allow Muslims in the Army it is a secular state. The Jewish >religious leaders donot run the country. In fact Israel has a much >larger percentage of atheists than the US. Freedom of worship is >protected in the Constitution of Israel. This is certainly not true in >several Arab Countries. > >Robert Posey Israel has a Ministry of Religion. It's not for goyim. Rabbis play a big role in the workings of the country. Judaism is a religion, Israel is a Judaic state. The stuff about the highest per capita atheists, I have heard the atheist disclaimer enough times from Jewish folk when debates get the best of them. "Freedom of worship"? I recall one incident, that still doesn't play well with Mormon attitudes, which was the hassle they got when they wanted to build a temple there. It was demanded they not try to convert any Jews. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 12 17:28:52 PST 1996 Article: 38626 of alt.politics.nationalism.white Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: There is no truth Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:33:37 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32b209af.220743@199.0.216.204> References: <199612032349.PAA24815@mailmasher.com> <32ac52dd.38183530@news.gte.net> <32ADE9FB.34D8@trib.infi.net> <58mj4a$eon@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:38626 alt.politics.white-power:51897 alt.revisionism:85299 >In article <32ADE9FB.34D8@trib.infi.net>, arcaro@trib.infi.net wrote: > >[Identity claptrap] > >>(I am not particularly religious, just throwing this in for discussion) > >No one involved with Identity can fairly be described as >religious, so I accept your disclaimer. Now perhaps you will tell >us what any of that had to do with the Holocaust? > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Hilary, what have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 13 05:45:05 PST 1996 Article: 85307 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:34:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 38 Message-ID: <32b309b5.226126@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204> <01bbe79b$fc85e0c0$e5809710@sheldon.ako.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:341343 alt.discrimination:58207 alt.politics.white-power:51901 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38631 alt.skinheads:45349 alt.conspiracy:119568 alt.religion.islam:35978 alt.revisionism:85307 soc.culture.jewish:99507 >> In article <32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran) >> wrote: >> > Israel is a Jewish state. Jewish aside from being a racist >> > movement, is a religious group. Therefore U.S. aid to Israel is in >> > defiance of any "separation of church and state". But Sara doesn't see > >Here is the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution > >************************************************* >Amendment I > >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or >prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, >or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to >petition the government for a redress of grievances. >************************************************* > >Show me where making an alliance with or giving aid to a foreign country >that is predominately one religion is: > >"making a law respecting the an establishment of religion, or prohibiting >the free exercise thereof"? > >Remember that U.S. laws only apply in the U.S. and do not apply to citizens >of foreign countries when they are in their own countries taking actions >with respect to their own citizens. > >Shelly The U.S. by law is not supposed to support any kind of religion. Israel was founded on its racist/religious being. U.S. should not support it. As for defending themselves. The Jews went there, the occupants didn't like it, the brethren didn't like it. Did the Arabs go to the Jews or did the Jews go to the Arabs? You can think they should have and currently should just throw up their hands and say 'Welcome'. Is this what Jews would do? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 13 10:34:11 PST 1996 Article: 85413 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:54:19 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <32bb5fa8.874186@199.0.216.204> References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net> <58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204> <01bbe79b$fc85e0c0$e5809710@sheldon.ako.dec.com> <32b309b5.226126@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:341593 alt.discrimination:58259 alt.politics.white-power:51945 alt.politics.nationalism.white:38695 alt.skinheads:45404 alt.conspiracy:119782 alt.religion.islam:36023 alt.revisionism:85413 soc.culture.jewish:99647 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >> As for defending themselves. The Jews went there, the occupants >>didn't like it, the brethren didn't like it. Did the Arabs go to the >>Jews or did the Jews go to the Arabs? > >Interesting that you should bring that up: during the Gulf War, when >kicked out of Saudi Arabia by their loving Arab brethren, quite >literally tens of thousands of Arabs fled through Jordan to Judea and >Samaria, clearly preferring to live under the supposedly iron heel of >evil Jooos than with their own Arab brethren in any of the twenty-odd >Arab countries. > >I'd suggest that that ought to make you think, but I'm not about to >ask for miracles. A crock. Fiction. Lie. "Judea" and "Samaria"? >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Joel Rosenberg | For news about upcoming books, | My opinions are mine. >joelr@winternet.com | finger joelr@winternet.com | Whose are yours? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 13 16:01:03 PST 1996 Article: 85461 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Clearing the air about CODOH Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:33:26 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <32b0099b.200641@199.0.216.204> References: <58i618$p6m@news.enter.net> <19961211074100.CAA16264@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32afc712.58654239@news.zilker.net> <58mtbs$mve@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32afc712.58654239@news.zilker.net>, >mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) wrote: >CODOH responded in 1994, good sir: > >"You misunderstand the mission of CODOH. We're in the business of >promoting open debate, not necessarily engaging in it."(Ross Vicksell) > > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 14 07:55:09 PST 1996 Article: 85581 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: McVay: Who, what, how - why - and where? Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:50:43 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 219 Message-ID: <32bf1bbe.4843011@199.0.216.204> References: <32b85a11.12045107@199.0.216.204> <58dr6h$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: >: >: Who is there at Nizkor filing in for McVay and using his sign? >: >: What is going on? >: >: How did it all come about? >: >: Why? >: >: And where is the real McVay? > >Abducted by aliens, of course. The same ones who concocted the >French Revolution on the Grassy Knoll while hiding the body of >Christ on the set of the fake moon landing. > >You really are quite insane, aren't you, Tom? > >Bill The best of Billy Anderson. 'See a person's words, now his capacity.' -------------------------------------------------------------- : I think the time is growing nigh for a "Best of Anderson". Tom-boy, I would be honored. You just don't know. They won't even let me use the hot tub at ZOG headquarters until you do a "Best of Anderson". Bill ----- Yeah? Well, I once heard Nikita Kruschev say "Bob Whitaker and Tom Moran are Venusian Clone Robots introduced into Western Society by Comintern in order to confuse the Running Dog Imperialists." Boy, this quote-inventing game is fun! Thanks, guys... Bill ----- Really? Gee, I gotta call all my Jewish friends. They're sitting on a gold mine! Tom, 'fess up--you can't really be as stupid as you pretend to be, can you? Can he? Bill ----- Really? Huh. I'll admit that Jews have a special interest in the Holocaust--just as, if 6 million half-wit buffoons were rounded up and murdered, Moran would have a special interest. But "all by their lonesome"? "No one else"? Has Moran failed to note the fact that many, if not most, of the regular anti-denier posters on this group are not Jews at all, but rather insidious wretched race traitors like myself? Moran wrong again. Hard to believe, huh? Bill ----- Yes, Li'l Tommy-- Danny teaches at MIS, which stands for "Miskatonic Institute of Surreality." They're summoning the Old Gods to help ZOG in it's campaign to undermine the Noble Aryan Race. Wanna apply? Bill ----- We get paid according to the number of Aryan children we corrupt, Tommy. Payment is in Gold Bullion, dropped down our chimneys by Black Helikopters. Bill ----- Damn it! Calling all ZOG agents--People's Hero Giwer has discoved that the American Arbitration Association is in on the Grand Unified Konspiracy. Burn-bag all pertinent documents with extreme prejudice. Bill Anderson Coordinator, Committee on Coordination Hibernian Occupation Government -------------------------------- Add Monty Python to the staggeringly long list of things about which Moran knows nothing. Bill ----- Oh, geez--just when I think I'm getting good at Moranian, something like this pops up... Sigh. Okay--who's got that dictionary? Bill ----- Funny; I just pointed my rigii at the Nizkor site, opened the file menu, clicked on print, and a nifty little printout popped out. Of course, I have the Secret ZOG Decoder software... Bill ----- Uh... I don't know, Tommy. I suppose so, except that Hilary's is a ring, and mine is software. You do know the difference between a ring and software, don't you, Tommy? Bill ----- Well, really, I do too. It's a severe breach of nettiquette, of course; everybody knows you're supposed to post German documents in Lithuanian. Bill ----- Damn! They're on to us again, guys--cheese it! Bill Anderson Third Sub-assistant to the Associate Director of Protocol Hibernian Occupation Government -------------------------------- Incredible. He doesn't know what arbitration is. Moran, you must own a dictionary. If you'd open it from time to time, you wouldn't look like quite such an ass. Bill ----- Is that an admission of illiteracy, Tom? Bill ----- Make it stop. Please. Bill ----- I don't know anyone named McFly, but if he can stop you and Tommy >from gibbering inanely on my monitor, I will search for him with great dilligence. Really, Matt--if people want to read the kind of trash you've been posting of late, they can delve into the K12 hierarchy. You've dropped to Moran's level, and you continue to plummet. I realize Alec's arrival has been tough on you, but do try to keep your end up just a bit, huh? Bill ----- hat in the name of God is this man talking about? I thought I had gotten pretty adept at Moranian, but this just boggles the mind. Anybody? Help! Bill ----- What in the name of God is an "afro-asian"? Why are you knuckledraggers constantly inventing new terms for people you want to spit on? Bill ----- Hey, maybe he's really going to do this! Damn--I knew I'd regret my procrastination in helping out Nizkor. Ken, if I promise to mark up some pages real soon, can I come to Florida with you guys and spend Matt's money? Huh? Can I? Please? Bill ----- From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 14 13:08:18 PST 1996 Article: 85658 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: We want the $wi$$ - regardless Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:42:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <32b25d2f.241175@199.0.216.204> References: <32be1575.3234148@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > Regardless of all this, it is stated that the blow hard, foot >stompin, self righteous Edgar Bronfman urged Switzerland to set up a >"interim fund" and to have it start to pay out to Jews anyway. An >article in the L.A.Times on the same subject put the figure at >$250,000,000. This $250,000,000 would be the pay off amount that would be acceptable to the Jews for them to ease back and let the whole thing blow over. As it stands, it looks like the Swiss may not be in the mood to so readily fall over backwards as fast as the United States Congress does when the little storms of huff and puff, foot stompin, self righteous, threatening, outraged indignation blusters at them. You can bet Bronfman was huffing and puffing, fluffing his feathers, foot stompin, blustering about in front of the committee. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 14 19:35:01 PST 1996 Article: 85699 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Grosvenor's woe Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 05:14:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <32b0e605.1732938@199.0.216.204> References: <32A42B25.54E7@concentric.net> <32A56DF8.6585@concentric.net> <32a71be6.1695201@news.micron.net> <58erjl$9oj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32ad1934.59914441@199.0.216.204> <58q8bf$145c@news.ccit.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote: >: >In article , >: >William "Gruber is a Jewish name" Grosvenor, posing >: >inappropriately as "WAHRHEIT" wrote: >: > >: >>Actually I have laid the charges with the RCMP against the person with >: >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >: >>Edmonton freenet, which is a business for which I paid a year in advance, >: >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >: >>and is not free!!! >: >> >: >>They have now SWINDLED me out of the year's prepayment of service fees. >: > >: >Translation: I agreed to abide by the Edmonton Freenet's Terms of Service. >: >Had I not done so, they would not have permitted me to use the system. I >: >then violated those selfsame terms, and was quite properly turfed. >: >(Those Wascally Joos made me do it!) > >: Hilary, is that you? What have you done with McVay? > >Hilary Ostrov took an axe >And gave Sir Nizkor 40 whacks >When she saw what she had done >She took his code to post for fun > >Ya think? Billy Anderson or Chuck, is that you? What have you done with Mr.Mittleman? From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 15 19:21:26 PST 1996 Article: 85892 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Debate Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 19:55:47 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 52 Message-ID: <32c40408.19349857@199.0.216.204> References: <32b8cca0.8487626@news.inetport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Debate has hardly ever been a friendly affair. > >The meanings of the word taken from _The American Heritage Dictionary_ >are thus: > >1. To deliberate; consider. 2. To engage in argument by discussing >opposing points. 3. To engage in formal discussion or argument. 4. >*obs.* To fight; quarrel. --tr. 1. To deliberate upon; consider. 2. To >dispute or argue about. 3. To discuss or argue (a question, for >example) formally. 4. *obs* To fight or argue for over. > >The Noun: (which is the way I see CODOH using the word.) > >--n. 1. A discussion involving opposing points; argument. 2. >Deliberation; consideration. 3. A formal contest of argumentation in >which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition. 4. >*Obs* Conflict; strife. > >An argument is defined as above and further: A quarrel or contention. >It is also defined as "a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating >the truth or falsehood of something." ====================================================================== >Debate is not a sanitized discussion but also goes to the character >and the motivations of each contending group. Like $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ and gold. ====================================================================== >With Holzer's book and David Donald's reasoned response we have a >debate. It is a debate made up of substantiation and great effort. It >is not a debate of distorting material, but explaining existing >material. The integrity of the material offered within a debate is a >factor as to how the debate will proceed. Don't you think? On this note, let us proceed. Mr.Curtis, could we start off with your address to the quite distrubing fact that there are two very distinct claims made about the whens and hows of the fate of the Treblinka "extermination center", which has been a recent and ongoing topic on alt.revisionsim, and you haven't popped in to make comment? But then again, I didn't quite get what point you were trying to make with the other 200 or so lines (deleted), after your starting off with the basic dictionary definition of "debate", so maybe I'm making a presumption by requesting we proceed with the first challenge. Did you have something else in mind? >Mike Curtis >E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com >Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 15 19:21:26 PST 1996 Article: 85901 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!snunews.snu.ac.kr!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Worthless Photo Evidence Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:35:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 45 Message-ID: <32b509e0.269846@199.0.216.204> References: <32af3068.318565@199.0.216.204> <32af4db9.5766520@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >On Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:32:28 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > >>>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images > > Corrections here. Dessicated and 5-7 day old bodies turn dark. > >>.01 Two prisoners standing over two charred bodies. Who took the >>photo, who are the victims? Not captioned. > > Charred in this case means dark. However, in a fire the smallest >extremities burn off, all hair is gone. Thin parts of the body like >lipes and eyelids burn away. Examine the pictures closely for such >signs. > >>.02 Three bodies along a three foot barbed wire fence. Who, how, not >>captioned. > > Note they are equally dark but without the signs of burning and >they obviously did not burn in place as the bushes on the other side >of the fence are undamaged. > >>.03 Three grotesque badly burned bodies. Who, how, not captioned. > > Is not this the one with a very flammable shoe still on one of the >bodies? Both legs are equally dark and thus if burned, equally burned >but the show survives on one foot. How is that possible? > > In other words what we have are the bodies of people who died >dehydrated such as with typhus and dysentary and have been exposed for >some time. There is no clear evidence of fire damage. (email >exchange for clarification is encouraged to Moran only.) > Burnt bodies, singed bodies, sun baked, bloated - whatever. Some kind of bodies. The analysis of the details is not necessary at this time for the particular point made here. This might come into play, later on, when it's time for them to claim this or that. The point here is, there is absolutely no accompanying copy to explain anything. The photos are meaningless, their worthless as evidence. As to the contents of the photos, even if they were explained, and anyone fell for it, a couple of bodies here and a couple there does nothing to prove they were gassed, shot or whatever and wouldn't help in one little iota the alligation millions were exterminated. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 07:05:28 PST 1996 Article: 85907 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" - Treblinka Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:44:54 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 54 Message-ID: <32c11b70.7177324@199.0.216.204> References: <329ba952.15778030@199.0.216.204> <32ae194c.59938773@199.0.216.204> <32c11be4.4881459@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: ># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes: > >## While the "leading Holocaust revisionist" Matt Giwer, >## says that there were buildings in Treblinka, his esteemed >## colleague, Tom Moran, said there were no buildings there >## whatsoever. > ># Show where Moran said "there were no buildings whatsoever", or ># even anything even close. Your failure to show it will be your ># indictment. > >Here's where you said it, Tommy. > > > > alt.revisionism #141704 (2940 more) > From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) > Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" - Treblinka > Date: Mon Dec 09 12:21:20 EST 1996 > Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet > > >Could this have anything to do with the fact that the camp was > >partially destroyed in the sonderkommando rebellion, and then > >dismantled (in 1943)? > > No. There was no rebellion. There were no buildings. There > are no signs of there ever being any buildings, other than > what is shown in the 1944 photo. > > > >It seems quite clear to me, Tommy. Or maybe the senile, crazed >drunkard, Matt Giwer, is now forging your articles also? Poor Mr.Keren. Cut and pasted from six lines up. "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". As to Mr.Keren's designation "senile, crazed drunkard", well ... "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". "..., other than what is shown in the 1944 photo". What about it Mr.Keren? > >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 07:05:29 PST 1996 Article: 85921 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Moran, argue with this Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:34:24 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <32b409dc.265177@199.0.216.204> References: <32A495EC.35C6@rio.com> <32a8e309.995955@199.0.216.204> <32ad3699.2964631@199.0.216.204> <32ade12b.1250477@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> >> "I do not understand any of this, but this man knows what he's >>talking about." Chuck Ferree >> >> >> After going over the contents of the e-mail Chuck received and >>posted, Moran's wondering whether or not someone has either singled >>Chuck out for the e-mail because of his special talents for >>understanding or because they thought Chuck was the most likely >>candidate who might see it as worthy of posting. >> > Chuck? Chuck? From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 07:05:30 PST 1996 Article: 85952 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Big "Mistake" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:18:35 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 38 Message-ID: <32b83046.4731404@199.0.216.204> References: <32b52f51.4486548@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 When the major discrepancy came to be discussed on alt.revisionism a post by "McVay" appeared to say, "Mr. Moran refers to http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/treblinka.02, with cites Sachar, who says that the Russians overran the camp, there were survivors, etc., long after, in fact, the day the camp had been completely dismantled. - in short, Sachar was out to lunch... I have annoted the file, provided references to far more accurate work, and thanked Mr. Moran for highlighting the error. It stands as a classic example of why historians rely upon a convergence of evidence - if that were not the case, sloppy work like Sachar's would dominate the field." "McVay" went on to say the file would be "annotated" in Nizkor FTPs. This is the annotation now in Nizkor files: "The following citation provides an example of the importance of accurate research. It is clear from other published reports that Treblinka had been dismantled prior to the arrival of Soviet troops. Thus the information below cannot be correct. Nizkor would like to thank Tom Moran for pointing out this error. For further information about the dismantling of the camp at Treblinka, we recommend orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs.camps.04. My thanks to Tom Moran for pointing out the monumental errors in the following text." knm. 1996/12/08 As to the "monumental errors", "errors" is one way of putting it. 'Fabrication, trumped up, lies' would be the more accurate, appropriate and honest designation and one that wouldn't be so insulting to the intelligence of those who would access the Nizkor cesspool. This is the Holocaust story. A self perpetuating series of lies and cover ups. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 07:05:31 PST 1996 Article: 85954 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!swrinde!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:31:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <32c527ac.10309202@199.0.216.204> References: <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com> <58s9st$i7l@access5.digex.net> <32c426e1.10106364@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >>In article <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com>, >>Tutu101 wrote: >> Here's a clue if you and Mr. Giwer are still having a problem with >>this: if you live in a large metropolitan area, check out your local >>telephone directory for the name "Gandhi" and see how many listings you >>find. It shouldn't take a 163 IQ to figure it out. > Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style, >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. The same goes for "McFee". >>Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. >>POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official >>Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 10:41:02 PST 1996 Article: 85974 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.insinc.net!ocean.netrover.com!amberjack.netrunner.net!news2.agis.net!agis!newsgod1.agis.net!agis!newspeer1.agis.net!agis!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Clinton Decries Opposition "Meanness" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:24:32 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 48 Message-ID: <32bb1017.4272121@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "Clinton Decries Taste for Political 'Meanness' in U.S." L.A.Times, Dec.15, 1996 President expresses anger about low level of discourse favored by some politicians, talk show hosts. His strong remarks will air tonight. President Clinton loves his job but says he hates "the politics of personal destruction and meanness" he feels have replaced debate over issues and ideas on the national scene. Americans, Clinton said, should not "pay any attention to all this sort of hate mongering and venom-spewing ..." The article goes on to say this all comes from an interview to be aired on C-Span tonight. He says it ties up his thinking. He gets to brooding about it. He is also upset about the low sales of his book "Between Hope and History". Five hundred thousand copies of the book were printed and the publishers said they expected up to 350,000 of them to be returned from book stores. He blames it partly on the failure to promote it. Of course many people might have read his first book written in partnership with Gore. The book is said to be a discourse on his first term and what he plans for the second term. Of course the first term was a dismal failure, what with all the talk about wide scale medical coverage, which went by the wayside, his failures in foreign affairs and all. Clinton is said to have gotten 50% of the vote submitted by the eligable voters who voted. Fifty percent of the eligable voters didn't vote. This would give him 25% of the eligable vote. Considering many do not even register to vote, we could reduce this number to maybe 20% or lower. What with little kids and such who are not eligable, he may have gotten only 10%. Now with the latest, in your face, appointments of Jews to the top most important positions, people are not in any mood for his crap. Evidently even some of the those who are so prone to wag their tails to the Jewish shadow are given to taking a few jabs. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 10:41:03 PST 1996 Article: 85983 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!gatech!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The Big "Mistake" Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:16:42 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 59 Message-ID: <32b52f51.4486548@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Over the past number of months, Moran has posted and reposted, "Treblinka: There, gone, there again" citing the following passage taken from Nizkor files and comparing it to other contradictory assertions of the Holocaust story. All of the Holocaust/true/defense league found it better not to pop in and make a comment. Then when this came up under another discussion, Mr.Keren, ardant dependent on the Holocaust story denied it was ever stated. When the evidence was given to him directly, he came back to say the writer of the book the passage was taken from made a "mistake". Here is the "mistake". "When the Russians took over the Treblinka complex and the nearly dead survivors had recovered sufficiently to communicate, the tales that they poured out were not limited to the horrors they had endured. These called for no review. There was no lack of physical evidence on display, the suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars, the abandoned instruments of torture and death, the files and records that the Germans had so carefully maintained. It was the repeated tales of senseless cruelty that increased the Russian fury; mothers obliged to carry their infants to their deaths ...; the woman on her way to the gas chamber, goaded to desperation by a taunting SS man, who threw herself upon him, and was then tortured by his comrades to emphasize the cost of remonstrance. The prisoners remembered the little boy who consoled his weeping parents on the edge of their mass grave with the assurance that the Russians would avenge them. They did so, wasting no time on due process." (Sachar, 34-35) Work Cited Sachar, Abram L. The Redemption of the Unwanted. New York: St. Martin's/Marek, 1983. The basic "mistake" part of it all would be that the writer claimed the camp was still in operation. Of course the fiction writer also includes a righteous dose of 'details'. Since the passage goes on to spurt an array of other things, we can assume they were all a "mistake" also. Some of the other "mistakes" would be, "There was no lack of physical evidence on display, the suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars, the abandoned instruments of torture and death, the files and records that the Germans had so carefully maintained. It was the repeated tales of senseless cruelty that increased the Russian fury; mothers obliged to carry their infants to their deaths ...; the woman on her way to the gas chamber, goaded to desperation by a taunting SS man, who threw herself upon him, and was then tortured by his comrades to emphasize the cost of remonstrance. The prisoners remembered the little boy who consoled his weeping parents on the edge of their mass grave ..." I take special notice of where the writer fulfills his fantasies about the Russians "...wasting no time on due process." When it comes to the Holocaust story, "due process" has it's own meaning. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 10:41:04 PST 1996 Article: 85984 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.rns.net!maggie.ionsys.com!newspeak.ultratech.net!!news1.bellglobal.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news.azstarnet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: We want the $wi$$ - regardless Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:50:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 50 Message-ID: <32be1575.3234148@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "Swiss Promise a 'Sweeping Study' Into Jewish Victims' Money" N.Y.Times, Dec. 12, 1996 "In an attempt to calm Switzerland's first major dispute with the United States in half a century, a Swiss official said today that his country was now fully committed to tracking down and returning any assets of Holocaust victims 'still being wrongfully held' in its banks." * So once again the United States is having a dispute with another nation brought on by Jewish intrigue. The quote '"still being wrongfully held"' could have been ended with 'if any' but we won't know. "At an emotionally charged hearing before members of Congress ..." * This would be the huff and puff foot stompin self righteous show of out raged indignation of the likes of World Jewish Congress. "Just hours before he testified, the Swiss Parliament approved ... a 'sweeping study' ... To ease the way for investigators, the decree orders Swiss banks to lift the usual secrecy ... Nonetheless, both Democrats and Republicans questioning Mr. Borer and Gerog Krayer ... expressed considerable skepticism ..." * Of course when it comes to Jewish causes, this is the only time we will see such agreement between parties. "... In private, however, both Swiss and American officials say that while several investigations are now under way -- aided by the declassification of two tons of American documents that have sat at the National Archives, the Treasury and the State Dept. for half a century -- it is unlikely that any of them will reveal many hidden assets still in Switzerland." * That's the bottom line, as it has been all along with the extortion scheme. Regardless of all this, it is stated that the blow hard, foot stompin, self righteous Edgar Bronfman urged Switzerland to set up a "interim fund" and to have it start to pay out to Jews anyway. An article in the L.A.Times on the same subject put the figure at $250,000,000. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 12:04:42 PST 1996 Article: 86008 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.insinc.net!ocean.netrover.com!amberjack.netrunner.net!news2.agis.net!agis!newspeer1.agis.net!agis!news1.exit109.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Bagels Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:49:46 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32c31da4.7740580@199.0.216.204> References: <589jpd$9pr@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <58bq78$id@juliana.sprynet.com> <58reu2$6sm$2@gruvel.une.edu.au> <32b68e40.59853581@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <58ujha$q71@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32b68e40.59853581@news.srv.ualberta.ca>, >John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote: > >>>4 kilogrammes of New York bagels, >>>3 kilogrammes of smoked Atlantic salmon, >>>16 loaves of seeded rye, >>>4 kilogrammes of solet, >>>1 bottle of manischewitz white wine, >>>3 virgin Christians for ritual slaughter >>>2 tickets to Spielberg's latest film. > >>Cream cheese. You forgot the cream cheese again. The really soft kind. >>Not that "Philadelphia" crap. > >New York bagels? No way, Jose. Gryfe bagels, Toronto... don't try >slipping (schlepping?) in those Montreal hockey pucks, either. > >>And *3* kilos of smoked salmon?! I knew ZOG had money, but *3* kilos!? > >This is Canada, old son... we sell by the ton. >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Brought to you by Nizkor, the synagogue's Holocaust promotional website and Mr.Morris, eminent professor. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 14:10:38 PST 1996 Article: 86020 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.insinc.net!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:35:47 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <32c01a90.6952626@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> <32b1e4a1.2136582@199.0.216.204> <32c01bc5.4850316@199.0.216.204> <58tr6u$sjl@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >On 14 Dec 1996, Brian Harmon wrote: > >> In article <32c01bc5.4850316@199.0.216.204>, >> tom moran wrote: >> [..] >> >> > Saying he made a mistake, confusing Treblinka with Majdanek or >> >Auschwitz, Treblinka having near nothing and the other two being major >> >camps, is idiotic. Beyond idiotic - chutzpah. >> > He made it up. He fabricated it. >> >> Tom Moran has decreed: All errors are deliberate >> fabrications. >> >> Like the time you insisted that Israel's reforestation program >> was impossible because your 'math' argued that they hadn't >> the available acreage? >> >> By your decree, when your calculations were exposed as >> dead wrong, you didn't make a mistake, you simply made >> it all up. > >I wonder if that's anything like Mr. Moran's little errors about the >"secular menorah" or how _Schindler's List_ was a bomb. It's clear to me >that Mr. Moran's claims on those two topics were a mix of error AND >deliberate falsification... "Schindler's List" was a flop. A bomb. Splat. What "errors" about "secular menorah" Mr.Kelley does not say. What relevance his little diversion has to "Treblinka mass graves" he doesn't say either. >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. >When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." > --Dom Helder Camara > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 16 14:10:39 PST 1996 Article: 86031 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.insinc.net!ocean.netrover.com!amberjack.netrunner.net!news2.agis.net!agis!newspeer1.agis.net!agis!news1.exit109.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle" Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:29:21 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 34 Message-ID: <32c426e1.10106364@199.0.216.204> References: <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com> <58s9st$i7l@access5.digex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com>, >Tutu101 wrote: >>Why does the mythical character Rajiv Gandhi always rely on epithets to >>attempt to prove his point? Mr. Giwer is a "drunk", >>"criminal"....Bellinger is a "liar", "troll"...Tom Moran is a >>"moron".....I think we get the picture of what you are, o great champion >>of the truth. By the way, when did you decide to adopt the name of an >>assassinated Prime Minister of India as your "handle"? > > Probably about the time my friend John Smith decided to adopt the name >of a famous Englishman of the colonial era as his handle. Or maybe it was >about the time my friend Andy Johnson decided to adopt the name of Abraham >Lincoln's successor as his handle. Then again, it might have been as long >ago as the time my friend John Jones took as his nickname the name of an >illustrious American naval officer, or as recently as the time my friend >Susan Smith decided to call herself by the name of an infamous child >murderer. > > Here's a clue if you and Mr. Giwer are still having a problem with >this: if you live in a large metropolitan area, check out your local >telephone directory for the name "Gandhi" and see how many listings you >find. It shouldn't take a 163 IQ to figure it out. Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style, "Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. > Posted/emailed to the mythical Tutu101 - I don't find _anyone_ with >that last name in any of the DC-area phone books. >-- >Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. >POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official >Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 17 18:39:55 PST 1996 Article: 86310 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Heads Up L'il Tommy Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:28:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 170 Message-ID: <32bd18c8.6496913@199.0.216.204> References: <199612032349.PAA24815@mailmasher.com> <32ac52dd.38183530@news.gte.net> <32ADE9FB.34D8@trib.infi.net> <58mj4a$eon@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32b209af.220743@199.0.216.204> <32b30b9e.1039630@news.uniserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:39250 alt.politics.white-power:52349 alt.revisionism:86310 The Best of Nizkor; The best of Hilary Ostrov Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ ----------- Hilary is one of the Holocaust defenders best commentators. Her stuff represents the best quality postings out here by those who are Holocaust dependent. ----------- The Best of Nizkor Example No.1, and then so on. "Actually Tommie, there was a ZOG meeting that day, and all the Nizkorites - including Mr. McVay - decided that in the interest of conserving bandwidth (and not seeing any sign that you have mastered the art of taming your rigii and noticing that you and Mr. Giwer are becoming increasingly indistinguishable, so that - as in this particular post - you appear to be talking only to yourself) we're just going to ignore you. However, since Mr. Katz was not able to attend the meeting, and hadn't read our new secret protocols of responding to Tommie, he did respond. And his response does bear repeating:" ============== "Poor Mr. Moran! His rigii reading must be in a complete fog, and his legal pad in total disarray." ============== "Let me explain what an "archive file" is, Mr. Moran. On second thoughts, no I won't. You seem to need the practice using a dictionary. So look it up. Perhaps then you will understand the ^^^^[1] reference above. And if you ever succeeded in mastering the lessons I posted for you on how to use your newsreader to copy an URL, you might want to make note of the following which will make it very easy for you not to lose track of your trail of lies in the future: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom" ================ "Mr. Eideken, I believe we may be doing Mr. Moran (and perhaps his alter-ego/echo-clone, Mr. Giwer) a grave disservice. As the above clearly indicates, Mr. Moran finds it exceedingly difficult to give credence to the possibility that you might have visited a library (perhaps because he himself has never spent any productive time in a library). The poor man keeps pleading for PHOTOS. Btw, see if you can get the librarian to include a few PHOTOS of "books" - as well as some simple instructions on how to read them." =============== "**Your new, improved ZOG decoder ring is en route and contains your secret password for the code to decipher the password for access to http://www.topsecret.zog.com/ where you will find his latest address. Posted and secretly e-mailed to Mr. Eideken" =============== "Actually, Mr. Van Alstine, as you and others have so cogently demonstrated, Mr. Giwer *doesn't* have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it is time to create a new newsgroup where he and Mr. Moran can continue to delude themselves: alt.PAR-from-the-PRIG (Pompous Arrogant Redundancy from the Pontificating Ridiculously Ignorant Giwer)" ================ "Please Mr. Moran, can you be a little more inspiring; so that maybe Mr. Morris will post some more delicious recipes ... they have been the most enlightening consequence of your posts in the past :>)" ================ "Now Mr. Moran has shown that he can post a complete sentence without a spelling error (although he has yet to master syntax and grammar), perhaps he will learn how to go to a library (or a bookstore), read a reference book and do his own homework." ================ "Perhaps Mr. Moran's "powder" or that "monkey on his back" has affected is recall of how to copy an URL from his NewsReader to his Web browser. The following excerpted repost is presented as a public service:" ================ "From: A Lesson for Mr. Moran (Was Re: Where are the URLs?) - posted to alt.revisionism Dec. 1/95 [To further assist Mr. Moran, I have amended the *explicits* to inimize his confusion. The amendments are indented and contained within square brackets, just like this comment.]" =============== "Poor Li'l Tommy. Looks like he's succumbed to Giwerundic paupacy. Must be one of the tortable side effects of "freudian pasting"." =============== "Good advice to the "revisionists", though, Tommy. But past experience suggests that they are too hooked on their lies to be *able* to refrain from the practice of "revisionism"." =============== Well, nice try Mr. McCarthy, but it doesn't seem to have helped. You know for a while I thought I saw some signs of progress. But now it seems that Mr. Moran's progress is in remission (or maybe that should be retransmission ... he's run this little gambit before, hasn't he?!) I'll leave his brilliant little response attached. It is somewhat amusing in a way. What _is_ this JDL declaration bit?! Doesn't he think we have enough to do with Nizkor pages?! Sheesh, he must think we go all over the net creating pages for other people! He claims that Nizkor is engaging in "inverted suggestion." I don't think any of the web pages are upside down are they? Or maybe he thinks that because there is a *mirror* site on *eye.net* that there must be an optical illusion somewhere - and he's just taken a stab in the dark. And he thinks our disclaimer is "tacit"! Sheesh, you'd think by now, he of all people would recognize an "explicit" when he saw one! =================== TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes. ==================== Mr. Thomas, I believe the appropriate expression here is pot.kettle.black If the reader is somewhat puzzled by my so-called "personal attack", I do believe that all will be quickly clarified - and indeed confirmed - by a perusal of the extensive postings of Mr. Moran which can be found at: =================== Hmmm ... so you believe this is a legitimate "term" and _not_ the equivalent of name calling in the absence of any substantive facts. I think we may have a very strong difference of opinion here, Mr. Thomas. Heavens, next thing I know you will be suggesting that I have been engaging in tortable paupacies! ==================== TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes. ==================== Definitely _not_ on _Saturday_ morning, Mr. Kelley! And if the Lubavitch Hassidim were in and they knocked on your door on Sunday morning (or any other morning - or any part of any other day, for that matter), they would do so _only_ if they saw a mezuzzah on your doorpost. ==================== Ah, I see that everyone's favourite "denier in search of a persona" has now taken upon himself (in an indisputably "Testimentary" fashion) the mantle of Doctor of Divinity. ==================== From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 18 08:19:21 PST 1996 Article: 86375 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:09:41 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32bf73b3.5855114@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> <32bd7134.5216501@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >>>Dear Readers, >>> >>>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. > > >> [ "The world must/should/needs to know ..." ] > > I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto Teacher of Social >Studies North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of >his students and see what they think about the simple question - > > Does the world have the right to question existing historical >accounts? My second question would be to inquire if any of the students are aware that many things that were once claimed about this Holocaust are now recognized as being untrue? From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 19 05:54:24 PST 1996 Article: 86640 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.his.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers - Revised Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 04:11:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 75 Message-ID: <32bbbf9d.48304779@199.0.216.204> References: <19961216125200.HAA09205@ladder01.news.aol.com> <17860D86CS86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.91 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 ================================================================= Mr.Browosky: >The _LA_Times_ story could use qualifications, but it does not >anywhere claim that the 4 million victims of Auschwitz were >all Jews. Here are the paragraphs that probably got your >attention (_LA_Times_, Wednesday, 7/30/96, front page) > > "Humanity was disgraced here by more than 4 million > systematic murders, victims marched to the gas > chambers for being born of parentage unacceptable > to the Third Reich. > > "Now it is silent, but there is still a stench in the > squat brick barracks where Jews from all over Europe > were processed and tortured, awaiting death." > > (paragraphs 5 & 6) Mr. Browosky states, "but it does not anywhere claim that the 4 million victims of Auschwitz were all Jews" but it certainly cites Jews and no one else. And then everyone in the world knows when the Holocaust is spoken of, it means Jewish victims. >The writer clearly claims four million, which he does probably on the >basis of the placque the Polish Communist raised at Auschwitz. But as >others on this newsgroup have repeated, this figure had already been >challenged by serious historians as early as the 1960s. Mr.Browosky states, "this figure had already been challenged by serious historians as early as the 1960s", but then this of course would be the exception and not the rule. The facts are, a actual record is posted from time to time shows the rule and Mr.Browosky and the rest of the Holocaust dependents just claim it ain't so. The record stands at about 30 to 1. Thirty examples for the higher Jewish numbers and one example (Reitlinger) for the lower. If all examples were known it would be more like 100s to 1 or 2. >Also, as Holocaust scholarship indicates, some victims were also "marched to >the gas chambers" for reasons other "being born of parentage unacceptable >to the Third Reich." Communists and gays, for example, were single out for >persecution. As we read about the Holocaust we can clearly see that the story is 99.9999% Jewish. Jewish, Jewish, 99.9999% Jewish. >And, by the sloppy way the article was written, you _could_infer_ that >in fact all victims were Jewish, and yet no such claim was explicitly made. >The writer wrote carelessly, but then, you posted carelessly. >Compare the way the _Washington_Post_ article was written, which put >the four million claim forward only as something written on the placque >itself. The writers aren't vouching for its accuracy or for the Polish >Communist government that installed it. And this, after all, is what >good journalists do. Here we see the standard disclaimer attempt, 'the commies did it'. Was it the commies that initiated the rumors? Was it and is it the commies who are perpetuating the tale? The overwhelming record shows the answers to be 'No'. >Why don't you make a scrapbook of the event, with reports from all >major newspapers and then present it to the group as your own project? >It's fun and it's something you could do on your own. Good luck. > >>Houston Post reported that 3,000,000 were Jews. > >I cannot find the Houston Post (at least for 1975) at my library. >Someone may wish to find and post it. > > >--Bruce Borowsky From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 19 05:54:25 PST 1996 Article: 86684 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Some Holocaust Facts Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:25:52 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 44 Message-ID: <32c00cfe.2578399@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 [repost] Anywhere from 600,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. The total number of people to have been exterminated by the Nazis during the WWII period is 10 million, 11 million or 12 million. Although none have been found and identified, there are at least 15 mass grave sites where at least 10 thousand people and up to 40,000 and on to 2,000,000 were buried and/or cremated in each one. Regardless of whether or not the 46 identified incinerator chambers at Auschwitz have barely the volume of a refrigerator, 200 people a day could be cremated in each one. Even though it takes modern day cremation facilities to cremate one (1) body 1 1/2 to 2 hours, cremation ovens at Majdanek could reduce four (4) bodies to charred bbone in ten minutes. Sometimes the whole process was kept in secret, sometimes it wasn't. There were 700,000, 800,000 or 900,000 Jews in Hungary before the war. Somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000 were exterminated at Auschwitz. Even though it was once said there were 700,000 Jews in France before the war and the figure is now put at 70,000, the number of Jews said to have been in Hungary and also found on the same list as the 700,000 French, the figure for the Hungarian Jews still stands. Any eye witness accounts and testimony for the Holocaust story supercede any against it. Any discrepancies or contradictions found in eyewitness testimonies should not be looked on with suspicion. Questioning the Holocaust story is an act of hate and those do are "neo-Nazis" and "anti-Semitic". Even though many revisions to the Holocaust story have taken place, with many of the old accounts being generally recognized as lies, any surviving accounts are to be accepted unconditionally. From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 19 07:46:47 PST 1996 Article: 86721 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: A Certain Perspective Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:25:45 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32bf0cf2.2566041@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Six million Jews killed? If we could line up that many people in rows, toe to heal and ten across, the whole line would be about a hundred miles long. If you started at one end in a car and drove along side these ten rows at 60 miles an hour, it would take you about an hour and a half before you got to the other end. Think about that the next time you take a spin. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 20 07:03:00 PST 1996 Article: 86938 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: WHAT I BELIEVE Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:11:58 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <32c5e76c.39700558@199.0.216.204> References: <19961220023800.VAA26902@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >CODOH is on-line at http://www.codoh.com > > >WHAT I BELIEVE, WHAT I DON'T, AND WHY >By Bradley R. Smith >I'm not willing to go away, however. I don't know why, but I'm >not willing. Its called 'honor'. Some people have it. Some don't. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 20 07:03:01 PST 1996 Article: 86997 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Away with the Christmas tree in with the Star of David Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:35:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 86 Message-ID: <32bda41b.4600902@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "Christmas Tree Surprise Quickly Wilts at School" L.A.Times, Dec.20, 1996 Holiday: Manhattan Beach classroom's decoration, set up by pupil's mother, is dismantled after Jewish parents object. In the end, nobody is merry about the culturally complicated incident. Oh Christmas tree, oh Christmas tree, how quickly we see you disappear. Second graders at a Manhattan Beach elementary school showed up Monday and found a fully decorated 7-foot artificial Christmas tree inside their classroom, courtesy of one of the students' mothers. A nice gift the mother had thought, to surprise the children. But many of the students in this Pennekamp Elementary School classroom, as well as the teacher, are Jewish. So about two hours later, the principal [Dale Keldrauk] was dismantling the tree, branch by branch, after some Jewish parents objected. Manhattan Beach school administrators are learning what other Southland educators have discovered: Celebrating the holidays has become and intricate juggling act in recent years with such a diverse ethnic and religious mix in the schools. ... [The principal said he thought it was for the good of the class.] Instead, it sparked one of those incidents that everyone wishes had just never happened. The principal had just transferred from another elementary school and didn't realize that at least 25% of the Manhattan Beach student body is Jewish. Neither did Janna Catalina, the parent ... And now the tree dispute has reached beyond the school and into the community. Rabbi Steven Silver ... said he had at least 15 calls Thursday asking why he is the Grinch who stole the Christmas tree. Many of the parents at Pennekamp attend this synagogue. 'We're receiving some very unhappy phone calls,' he said. 'I think what it really dramatizes is how little we really understand about each other.' Silver has tried to explain that a Christmas tree is just as much a symbol of Christ's birth as a Nativity scene. 'For Jewish people, these kinds of things make people feel marginalized. These are not our symbols', he said. But he believes that Christmas trees can be in classrooms because they are an American symbol. He just wants people to know what Christmas trees mean to Jewish people and what they give up. ...[Ms.Catalina said she thought she was doing a good thing.] ... Keldrauk suggested that the fashion a Star of David out of a silver garland and put it on the wall, which they did. On Sunday, the principal called PTA President Tracy Wines ...She immediately suggested taking the tree down. ... However, the parents' adverse reaction Monday was overwhelming. [The school called for Catalina to come and take the tree down. She couldn't because she was at work, so the principal did it.] 'This is a single isolated incident that I feel has gotten blown out of proportion', Keldrauk said. Some parents were pleased. Others were disappointed. 'It upsets me', said Donna Morreau, whose seven year old daughter Kayla is in the class. 'It's, What's next? From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 20 09:36:40 PST 1996 Article: 87011 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: L.A.Times headlines, one thing, the copy another Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:50:34 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <32bdc3d3.12720959@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "GOP Lawmakers Support Israel's Security Policy" L.A.Times, Dec.20, 1996 "GOP Law Makers ..." Who? Two. Jesse Helms and Benjamin Gilman. "...Israel's Security Policy"? Settlements. From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Dec 20 22:01:23 PST 1996 Article: 87103 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:21:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 3 Message-ID: <32ba92ba.151922@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 I wonder if Mr.Cassutto has ever mentioned alt.revisionism to his students? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:44 PST 1996 Article: 87129 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Away with the Christmas tree in with the Star of David Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:41:51 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 98 Message-ID: <32bfa573.4944952@199.0.216.204> References: <32bda41b.4600902@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 A few comments. =============== "A nice gift the mother had thought, to surprise the children. But many of the students in this Pennekamp Elementary School classroom, as well as the teacher, are Jewish." ["Many" meaning 25%] "So about two hours later, the principal [Dale Keldrauk] was dismantling the tree, branch by branch, after some Jewish parents objected." The furry was so loud, it took only two hours] "Manhattan Beach school administrators are learning what other Southland educators have discovered: Celebrating the holidays has become and intricate juggling act in recent years with such a diverse ethnic and religious mix in the schools." [They are learning what has become a Jewish tradition, expressed and repeated numerous times over he last 6 years across the country.] "Instead, it sparked one of those incidents that everyone wishes had just never happened." [This is exactly what was intended. Harassment.] "The principal had just transferred from another elementary school and didn't realize that at least 25% of the Manhattan Beach student body is Jewish." [Jewish percentage didn't seem to fit in with an incident in New Hampshire two years ago where a Jewish girl demanded that a group singing Christmas Carols in the hall ways of the school cease. In that school 15 of the students were Jewish out of a school population of 2500.] "And now the tree dispute has reached beyond the school and into the community. Rabbi Steven Silver ... said he had at least 15 calls Thursday asking why he is the Grinch who stole the Christmas tree. Many of the parents at Pennekamp attend this synagogue." [Rabbis. Their right there leading the Jewish pack.] "'We're receiving some very unhappy phone calls,' he said. 'I think what it really dramatizes is how little we really understand about each other.'" [Interesting way of putting it.] "Silver has tried to explain that a Christmas tree is just as much a symbol of Christ's birth as a Nativity scene. 'For Jewish people, these kinds of things make people feel marginalized. These are not our symbols', he said. But he believes that Christmas trees can be in classrooms because they are an American symbol. He just wants people to know what Christmas trees mean to Jewish people and what they give up." [Nevertheless, the tree is gone and ...] "... Keldrauk suggested that the fashion a Star of David out of a silver garland and put it on the wall, which they did. " [... the Star of David is up and blazing on the walls.] "On Sunday, the principal called PTA President Tracy Wines ...She immediately suggested taking the tree down. ..." ["Tracy Wines"?] "However, the parents' adverse reaction Monday was overwhelming." [Jewish parents.] "'This is a single isolated incident that I feel has gotten blown out of proportion', Keldrauk said." [This is a lie, or the principal is ignorant. This is just another episode of Jews trying to stamp out other's symbols while instilling their own.] "Some parents were pleased. Others were disappointed." [Doesn't say any more. Jews were pleased, the rest were not.] "'It upsets me', said Donna Moreau, whose seven year old daughter Kayla s in the class. 'It's, What's next?" [What's next? Leaving the Star of David up on the walls year round we might think. After all what's going to happen after the 'Tis the season for Jewish yes, Christian no'? Are they going to leave the Star of David up? Who is going to say to take it down? Not a Jew. And certainly not a goy, this would be "anti-Semitic".] From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:45 PST 1996 Article: 87130 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Christian Revisionism Okay but for the Holocaust it's "Hate" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:18:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 49 Message-ID: <32ca9d88.1954011@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 For the last two years there has been considerable commentary appearing in main stream medias such as the L.A.Times, N.Y.Times, Newsweek and Time Magazines on the validity of the most central points of Christianity. Did Christ do this - did Christ really do that? Was Christ really the son of god? I don't know if there have been scores of websites out here, or hundreds of newspaper articles, letters to the editors, columns, full page ads and books condemning this growing revisionist trend towards Christianity as hateful, but I do know there have been all these media formats used extensively to denounce any and all who question the Holocaust as purveyors of "HATE" who are "NEO-NAZIS" and "RACIST" Often accompanying or included in the extensive obvious conspiracy to brand Holocaust revisionist as racist, neo-Nazi haters are calls for special censorship against Holocaust revisionism. Little groups running here and there, 'stamping down their feet' in demonstration of righteousness, mass phone call campaigns and bomb threats is how those who are so dependent on the Holocaust story go about it. "Hate", Hate", Hate" is their battle cry. Christian revisionism is something that questions that which is dear to the hearts of hundreds of millions, something fundamentally, inheritably central to human beings, religion. Holocaust revisionism questions the accuracy of a historical event. The Christians seem to be able to take it with a certain grace. For those who are dependent on the Holocaust story, it's "Hate", "neo-Nazi", "Racist" - "anti-Semitism". There is something really different between reactions. Something disproportionate. Something quite unaesthetic. Something ugly. Something weak. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:45 PST 1996 Article: 87131 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:15:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 192 Message-ID: <32bd9cfd.1815600@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Behold the lie, tell your friends. For those who are new to investigating whether or not the Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves. A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced. After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism" those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of 1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace, style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center. -------- "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million. Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust are much lower than previously thought?" *("well over" meaning 4 million) The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an "invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R., "to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims". Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic. "The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures." --------- Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall 6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000 down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader. Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz dead at about 2,300,000. "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_. Chicago: World Book, 1980. 2,500,000 Billig, Joseph. _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du Reich hitlerien_. Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973. pp 101-102. 2,000,000 Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974. p 855. 1,000,000 to 2,500,000 Friedman, Filip. _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_. Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich. London: The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 Kamenetksy, Ihor. _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_. New Haven: College and University Press, 1961. p174 2,500,000 Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_. Berlin, 1974, 157. 3,500,000 to 4,500,000 Wellers, Georges. "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 1,600,000 Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Czech, D. "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte," in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Konzentrationslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof. _Resistance in the Nazi concentration camps, 1933-1945_. Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982, 44. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Madajczyk, Czeslaw. _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce; okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_. Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe, 1970, 293-94. 2,800,000 to 4,000,000 _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator encyklopedyczny_. Warsaw: Panst. Wydaw. Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 Nora Levin's "The Holocaust", 2,000,000 to 2,300,000 Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991 Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000 ------- So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000 Jews. This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews, to see how wide spread the figures are. Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are committing a lie. In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the record straight? It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were. Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz? How many do you think were Jewish? The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000 or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later. WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed "anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis". quatchen From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:46 PST 1996 Article: 87132 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v. Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:53:44 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <32b997cd.487459@199.0.216.204> References: <19961216124900.HAA09158@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Ordinary v. Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers > >A few MAINSTREAM Facts: > >Joy Hakim s new revised History of US, Oxford University Press >c1995 states that 3,000,000 Jews were murdered at Auschwitz. > >Deborah Lipstadt, mainstream Holocaust historian, certified the >Auschwitz 4,000,000 extermination figure in Beyond Belief . > >Pres. Ford s visit to pay homage to the 4,000,000 exterminated at >Auschwitz was widely reported in the U.S. media (July 30,1995) > >L.A. Times reported that all 4,000,000 were Jews. >Houston Post reported that 3,000,000 were Jews. Waspnot, thanks for additional examples that shows any claim that the old Asuchwitz number was never figured into 6,000,000 number to be a lie. I'll add it to the 30 or so other examples I have. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:47 PST 1996 Article: 87133 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: ADL "friends of free speech" excepting ... Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:35 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 67 Message-ID: <32c69d6d.1927428@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Letter to the Editor, L.A. Times, Nov. 21, 1991 "Censorship and Computers" "The Anti-Defamation League questioned Prodigy Consumer Network's interpretation and application of it't self imposed guidelines for determining the appropriateness of messages posted on it't bulletin boards. I did not, contrary to Dershowitz's assertion, demand that Prodigy '"censor"' anti-Semitic messages. The ADL, counts itself among the staunchest friends of free speech. The questions raised by Dershowitz as to whether computer services should impose such guidelines is not the point. In light of the fact that Prodigy has guidelines, we brought to their attention complaints we received about certain messages that appeared on Prodigy bulletin boards, including messages claiming the Holocaust is a hoax. Prodigy concluded these messages were not offensive. We disagree. Even Dershowitz disagrees. Dershowitz is wrong to claim that ADL's actions '"aggravated the problem."' As the '"watchdog of the Jewish Community against anti-Semitism"', we believe it is better to expose institutional racism and anti-Semitism, if it exist, than to pretend it does not. ADL did not '"mainstream"' the bigotry, it exposed it. The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be offended. Constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe, of Harvard, has stated his belief that, with regard to computerized communications, the issues involved are not adequately addressed by our legal system. However, since Prodigy has promulgated guidelines and taken the responsibility for drawing lines and making judgement calls as to what is and is not offensive, we and their subscribers have every right to question their decisions without being labeled promoters of censorship." TZIVIA SHWARTZ Western States Associate Counsel Anti- Defamation League, Los Angeles What a crock of crap. '...among the staunchest friends of freedom of speech", "...complaints they received..." The only example they put in here as to these complaints concerns Holocaust denial. Their own interests. They are in denial by stating they did not "demand" Prodigy '"censor"' '"anti-Semitic"' messages and then raising it as a legitimate topic for Constitutional revisionism. "The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be offended." All those Palestinians, Arabs of other nations, Muslims and Catholics have the right not to be offended, yet this ADL has leveled all sorts of vile accusations against them and they don't go crying for special interpretations and application of our free speech clause. In true ADL form, they cite a "Constitutional law professor ... from Harvard" as a selling point for their view. One man? Some weak minded academite. "Even Dershowitz disagrees"? Dershowitz plays himself as a champion of freedom of speech so he can play that even Holocaust denial is objectionable enough to warrant censorship. This is the good cop bad cop practice that so often accompanies the writings of this faction. I would suggest a full vote before the whole United States as to what should or should not be censored on the Internet. How's that for democratic procedure? Why leave it up to weak people in position to submit to the standards of those who sleaze around to have our Constitution be specialized for their particular cause. The ADL and associated organizations have their concept of what they think is offensive, and get their complaints in wherever they want, but in the end they're the ones who have the big history of offensiveness against whole nations, whole peoples, whole religions, and they express it with regularity right in our faces, right in our public medias, galore. Right here in their own directive, REVISIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:48 PST 1996 Article: 87135 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: MENACING TROLL FLAUNTS FAILURE AGAIN Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:53:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <32b897b9.467576@199.0.216.204> References: <32a9c871.2323821@news.gte.net> <32ac457d.34759780@news.gte.net> <58lc7b$1j5i$13@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32aeec6c.30812485@news.gte.net> <58oor8$p1m@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <32b08811.9067897@news.gte.net> <58qt92$rjk@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <32b1b0d1.8418519@news.gte.net> <32b2631d.17004787@news.uniserve.com> <32b2dd91.47693714@news.winternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) writes: > >>But as long as you, your handlers and your admirers continue to >>recycle the distortions and lies you mistakenly call "revisionism," >>you will have to learn to live with the certain knowledge that your >>wastes of bandwidth will be countered by facts. >> > >That's an important distinction to keep in mind. There is real >revisionist history going on on a lot of subjects -- the Holocaust >included -- being conducted by real historians using real methods. > >One of the actual controversies is explored in Daniel Goldhagen's > >Hitler's Willing Executioners >Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust >(Alfred A. Knopf, $30; ISBN 0-679-44695-8) > >To quote from a particularly good review: > >"The heart of Goldhagen's 'radical revision' is 'fundamentally >reconceiving three subjects: the perpetrators of the Holocaust, German >antisemitism, and the nature of German society during the Nazi >period.' > >"In this new study, he presents extensive primary material, including >much testimony from the perpetrators themselves... > >"This extraordinary work of careful scholarship is profoundly >enlightening and profoundly disturbing. Goldhagen's book should be >essential reading for anyone who wants to better understand the >Holocaust." ======================================================================= >I can't imagine that, bestseller though it is, it'll be carried at the >CODOH bookstore, or would be terribly popular there if it was. Mr.Rosenberg, do don't know if any of the book stores in any of the many Holocaust museums carry any revisionists books, do you? You know, books like "Air Photo Evidence"? How about The Simon Wiesenthal Page? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:48 PST 1996 Article: 87136 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: No Fear of Air Photo Evidence? Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:20:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <32be0b22.2102803@199.0.216.204> References: <32a0436f.357177@199.0.216.204> <32b1eecf.711154539@news.micron.net> <32b5d615.69200605@news.micron.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes: > ># The salient fact is Cole's Jewishness. Allegedly ># revisionism is anti-semitic. > >kurtzi, there are a few million Jews in the world. Some >of them are very stupid. Some of them are very crazy. It's >a simple statistical fact, true for any population of that >size. > >So, there is one Jew, David Cole, a 26-year-old highschool >dropout, who is (or, I believe, was) a "revisionist". This >does not prove anything. It's a sensation of sorts - and >I'm convinced that's one of the reason that Cole became >a "revisionist" - but it really means nothing. Even if >you had a hundred David Cole's, that's still one hundred >out of millions. It simply means nothing. > > >-Danny Keren. I always get a kick out of people making a point that someone Jewish has come out against Jewish causes. This is because everyone realizes how hard headed all things Jewish Jews are. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:49 PST 1996 Article: 87142 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: CENSORSHIP - SIMON SAYS AGAIN Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:28 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 85 Message-ID: <32c59d66.1920562@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 [repost] New York Times Jan. 10, 1996 "Jewish Rights Group Urges Ban Of All Hate Messages on Internet" "Citing '"the rapidly expanding presence of organized hate groups on the Internet,"' a leading Jewish human rights group yesterday began sending letters to hundreds of Internet access providers and universities asking them to refuse to carry messages that '"promote racism, anti-Semitism, mayhem and violence"'. The letter from the Simon Weisenthal Center, a 425,000-member organization ... is the latest in a growing effort by legislators and private interest groups to censor offensive material ... which now connects millions of computer users worldwide. '"Internet providers have a First Amendment right and a moral obligation not to provide these groups a platform for their destructive propaganda,"' Rabbi Abraham Cooper, .... wrote in the letter ... Rabbi Cooper said the target of yesterday's call for '"ethical rules of engagement on the Internet"' was not the many discussion forums where individuals debate such topics as whether the Holocaust actually occurred, but rather the Internets's World Wide Web, a service that allows users to publish documents -- including text, pictures ... read by millions of people. Dozens of groups, from white supremist to anarchists, have published documents on the Web about their points of view. Some are revisionists histories and some are racist tracts denigrating blacks, Jews ... Such hate speech is not illegal under Federal law and is generally protected by First Amendment ... But efforts are growing to restrict certain types of information ... Congress is debating ..." The article then goes to give us comments from various people who defend the unrestricted Internet before returning to Rabbi Cooper who said the '"unprecidented potential and scope of the Internet" gives people '"incredible power to promote violence, threaten women, denigrate minorities ..."' "He said letters would be sent to about 2000 Internet providers and university presidents suggesting a voluntary code of ethics. The proposed code asks providers to pledge, '"We consider it our civic duty to refuse or terminate service to any individual or group to exploit our service to promote an agenda of hate and violence"'. A short recap of the of the Jewish "rights group" manifesto is that the target of their agenda was not the many discussion forums where individuals debate such topics as revisionism but the "...groups, from white supremists to anarchists" who have published "documents on the Web" ... Some are revisionists histories ..." ===================================================================== As to the Times reporter's stating the Jewish "rights group" is the "latest" group in "a growing effort by legislators and private interest groups ..." the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the only one named exactly. No other group(s) were cited. Of course those legislators that are mentioned are the same ones that will tell you that Zionist policies of shooting little kids is an act of democracy, and who will muster up 93 Senatorial votes endorsing Jeruselem as capitol of Israel and other major majority votes to 0, while they can't agree on anything that would benefit the people of the U.S. Above, again, a Jewish connection that revisionism and "hate" are in the same category. Before any self imposed or legislative imposed restrictions are made on the Internet, we should reqire that any proposers list exactly what they see as example candidates for censorship, and be subject to debate by the general citizens of the U.S. and the world. It can not be left up to Jewish "rights groups" to set the parameters. Its already a unwritten law that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, and few if any dare question any U.S. policies that even remotely connect to that area of the world. The main problem with any kind of censorship is the precidences it sets, which history shows can and will be used to expand them to any level, far removed from the initial precedence. We can not allow ourselves to be controlled by fear and tyranny. The truely intellectual way of dealing with any wacky malevolent doctrines is to counter them with the pen, not by the methods of the likes of the Simon Weisenthal Center. Their approach is a sign of their failure and confidence of intellect to debate a issue and or their condemnation of the American intellect. An act of contempt. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:50 PST 1996 Article: 87143 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The twelve year grace period Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:16:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 174 Message-ID: <32be9d10.1834440@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The Twelve Year Grace Period ============================== In with the new books, away with the old. Random House Dictionary, "grace" - "6. favor shown in granting a delay or temporary immunity". ======================================================================== According to some accounts, the reason the previous numbers of those said to have been exterminated at Auschwitz was 3 million higher than the current 1 million is because the Soviets mis-calculated the numbers of people that could be cremated in the ovens. How the Soviets went about this ciphering that resulted in a 300 percent over estimate is not detailed in Holocaust accounts. Another account of why the old number was so far off is because of the intentional conniving on the part of the Poles and Soviets to inflate Polish casualties so as to deflate Jewish causalities, or something like that. (The full ride down the bumpy dirt road can be found on the Simon Wiesenthal web page.) If we should accept either excuse, mis-calculation or intentional lie, we are led to wonder about other things. First we would have to recognize that these are the official Holocaust accounts and that they are the only ways they came up with the 4 million number, in lieu of anything else. There are two other factors that played a role in Auschwitz numerology. One is by way of "eyewitness" accounts and the other is pre end of war rumors that were going around with some of them being reported in major medias. The eye witness accounts given immediately at the time of the liberation of the camps were by a couple of Jewish inmates. The most cited eyewitness authority for the numbers came from Rudolph Ho'ss former Auschwitz camp commandant and still a star witness for the Holocaust story who said there were up to 3 million people killed at the camp. We have to recognize that since the current number is 2 million less than what the star Holocaust witness said, then either the current number is wrong or the star witness was wrong, or lying. The other pre end of war accounts, which we may consider to be the seed rumors that set the atmosphere for the subsequent gross exaggerations, can be traced to those originating and spread from Jewish organizations. All kinds of numbers and methods were alleged, none of which, understandably, is presented by the current Holocaust promotional network at this time. We can recognize the Holocaust promotional network not using these sources as their admission that their rumors were not truths and would only tend to expose the absolute origin from which the gross exaggerations emanated. So in a pure research sequence we have to recognize there are the two basic claims as to why the number was 4 million in the first place. The incredibly wayward Soviet mathematics as put forth by say, Nizkor, "The 4 Million Variant" and their source for that, or the intentional juggling by the Soviets and Poles as claimed by the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Since either one of these is the basic statement on the old Auschwitz number, we have to recognize there was nothing else, say as an actual body count, records or forensic investigations from which to deduce any numbers. All this would suggest that whatever numbers they had then, and were submitted to Nuremberg or any other trials, were founded on real shaky grounds, but nevertheless offered as evidence to hang men. Not until around 1980 did the numbers come to be what they currently are. The new numbers are founded on the "interpretations" of deportation records and rail manifests with the specific criteria that no eyewitness accounts, commission reports or confessions by Germans were to be trusted or used in the new figuring. Also explicitly cited are any court records, which would include Nuremberg's, which shows that they are recognized as lies. Is there anything 'funny' about this 'new' number, as it is obvious there was with the old one? Well this would involve the investigation of the records used and the consideration of any interpreting logic. Will all this ever become available to researchers who may have suspicions? We can only wait and see. The one thing we can conclude as to any shenanigans is that the 'new' numbers are not all that new. They are said to have been arrived at, starting in 1980 and completed in 1986, showing that the suspicions for the old numbers was recognized in 1980. Not until the last three years or so did any formal announcement of the current revised number take place, leaving a gap of about 12 years between the time of arriving at the current number and the official announcement. During this time the sign outside of the Auschwitz camp citing 4,000,000 people were exterminated was allowed to remain at 4,000,000. Not only this, but the old number of 4 million was allowed to be cited hundreds, if not thousands of times in the world's medias during this 12 year span without any parties knowledgable to the revision coming forth to correct the rampant use of the old number. So who would have known about the revisions? An easy resource to check is almost any public library. Here we will find in the catalogs numerous books on the Holocaust, most of which were written from 1980 on. In fact, it is very hard to find any books on the Holocaust written before that time. Either we assume there were no books on the Holocaust written before 1980 or that there were and they have found their way off the shelves. We would have to consider the likely hood that any books written before the massive revision to the Auschwitz numbers would have accounts of numbers with the old 4,000,000 number as a part of the whole accounting. Regardless of whether or not any of the previous books are available, numerous documentation is available, as to sources, that allege that a significant number of the old, now deleted number of 4,000,000 were Jewish. In spite of what the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims, that the number of 6,000,000 Jews said to have been killed during the war was never contingent on the old 4,000,000, the documented facts, not readily available now in the libraries, challenges this severely. The numerous older accounts can have it that >from 2,000,000 to 4,000,000 of the victims at Auschwitz were Jews. Perhaps the only book that was written before 1980 that held to a smaller number was one by Reitlinger, who cited a number close to the current number. This book is referred to by the defenders of all things true Holocaust in attempts at drawing attention away from the 20 or 30 other sources that cite significantly higher figures. Six million is the standing figure as to the number of Jews said to have been exterminated during WW II. This has pretty much been the figure all along. We would have to recognize that any books written on the Holocaust before or after 1980 must strive to give the full account including other camps and any exterminations said to have taken place in the 'field' so that the culminating figure is 6,000,000. If books are written that claim, say, 2,300,000, 3,000,000 or 3,500,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz, then any numbers given for other places must be jostled around so that when it is all put together the figure ends up at 6,000,000. Thus any books written using the 1,000,000 figure must do their ciphering considering that, which would throw them into serious conflict with the older accounts. So, in 1980 along comes the problem of the massive revision to the Holocaust root number of Auschwitz, from 4,000,000 down to 1,000,000. Then, also starting around 1980 we have a whole onslaught of new books that came out with most of them giving accounts that agree with the new number. The new number that wasn't officially released until 1993. Is it a fantastic coincidence that the new Auschwitz numbers were arrived at around 1980 and a whole slue of new books appeared around the same time? Was it just an oversight that kept the old number of 4,000,000 up on the sign at Auschwitz and the new current number from being released at that time it was arrived at? And who would have been privy to knowing about all this revision at the time? Putting all the pieces together, it appears a righteous accommodating grace period was given to the Jews so they would have time to reorganize Holocaust accounts that would be more in line with the new figures, and that is what is on the library shelves at this time. A pathetically corrupt state of affairs. ======================================================================== No wonder the Jews exert so much energy in trying to snuff out open debate on the truth or falsity of the Holocaust, opting instead to condemn the whole thing as an act of "hate", "racism", "neo-Nazism" and/or "anti-Semitism". ======================================================================== From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:50 PST 1996 Article: 87145 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: "Anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:16:39 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32bf9d35.1871624@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "Anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism"? Yup. This is one of the Jewish community's many absurd proposals. This would mean that objecting to the Zionist policy of shooting down little kids with bullets for their throwing stones, uprooting their daddies orchards, barring their daddies access to work, closing their schools for years, holding them prisoners without due process, torture, defying U.N. resolutions, breaking "peace" agreements, rousting whole populations with bombs, blowing up refugee camps and the myriad of other unaesthetic Zionist policies - ah yes, complaining about this is an act of anti-Semitism. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:51 PST 1996 Article: 87149 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Flat Earth and the Holocaust Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:34:44 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32b55de5.273856@199.0.216.204> References: <32b8bacc.601483@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > > The only difference between those who so adamantly push the >Holocaust story and the 'Flat Earth Society' is, that the latter >doesn't go around trying to have it made a law demanding we have to >believe it. There is that other major difference between those who belong to the Flat Earth Society and those who pushy push the Holocaust story, the Flat Earther's know it's a spoof. But then again, those who pushy push the Holocaust story try awfully hard to keep it from being questioned so there seems to be something with that. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:52 PST 1996 Article: 87161 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:42:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 167 Message-ID: <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Dear Readers, > >Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >unit has been on our website for the past year at >http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. Mr. George Cassutto, I checked out your website that you posted notice to on alt.revisionism under, "The Holocaust: U.S. Students React" and the very thing that became evident was the near identical starting lines to each one, which I found very disturbing. I also notice that your class was put through a "one-week interdisciplinary unit". What I have done here, for starters, is to list the starting lines to make the point, a point, that the near identical nature of these lines is beyond coincidence. Hagerstown Students React To The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. "The following paragraphs are the reactions of students who visited he United States Holocaust Museum on December 11, 1996. Their visit was preceded by a one-week interdisciplinary unit on the Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within. ..." Thank you. [ "The world must/should/needs to know ..." ] The world must know about the Holocaust because it was the greatest genocide to ever K. W. The world needs to know that the Holocaust really happened and we can never let it happen again. B. S. The Holocaust is an important issue, and people need to know that it did happen, because some people deny it. N. B. The world needs to know that the Holocaust was a horrible experience. It should never happen again. K. M. The world should know that the Holocaust is the worst thing that ever happened. It should never happen again. V. M. My views on the Holocaust is that it was a terible and gruesome event in history. I think this because of the massacres of innocent people just because Hitler and his Nazis had a great deal of prejudice. B. S. I feel that the world should know about the Holocaust because it was terrible. Adolf Hitler and his evil Nazi henchmen who destroyed the lives of over twelve million people D. M. I think that the people in the world today need to know that the Holocaust was a very horrible thing to happen to any human being of any color, race of any kind. B. F. I feel that the world must know the Holocaust was possibly the most terrifying event in history for millions of people. M. O'B. I think the world should know about the Holocaust because it could repeat itself agian. J. C. The world must know how tough it was for the people to live back then and be lucky we don't live like that. R. S. The world must know about the Holocaust and what happened to people that were killed P. B. We should learn as much as we can learn so we don't discriminate against people who didn't do anything wrong to us or our country, government, or the public. D. M. I think the whole world needs to know about the Holocaust,so it won't happen again. We T. W. The people of the world must know that the Holocaust did happen . So many people T. H. I think the world must know that the Holocaust was the largest genocide, (destruction of E. P. During the 1933-1945 period 6 million jews were killed by the Nazis. They wanted to eliminate all non-aryan, anti-nazi, and disabled people. We can learn A. M. The world must know that the Holocaust did happen, even though it should not have. We L. D. I think that teenagers today should know what happened in the holocaust so it will never S. T. I saw alot of things at the Holocaust museum that made my stomach turn just looking at C. P. I think the world must know about the Holocaust, so that people like Hitler never get J. T. I think the world must know that the Holocaust was the actions of a crazy man. It is C. S. The world should know that the Holocaust did happen and it was a horrible time period. M. A. The world should know how many people were put to death during the Holocaust in the concentration and murder camps. S. S. What I think the world must know about the Holocaust is that it really did happen, T. C. I think that the world should know the pain that the people went through during this T. H. V. Some of the things I believe the world must know about the Holocaust are how it happened, T. P. The world must know that the Holocaust was real and not made up. Why would so many B. C. The world should know all about the Holocaust. The Holocaust is very important to our K. C. The Holocaust is one of the most important places that I have ever been to in Washington , D.C. One of the coolest things about the museum is that J. I. ==================================================================== "interdisciplinary unit"? Excuse me for being direct, but this term reminds me of something about George Orwell's "Ministry of Love" in his book "1984". Tom Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:52 PST 1996 Article: 87165 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Declaration Of Deficiency Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:06 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <32c29d50.1898317@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 They who refuse to debate, oppose debate or stifle debate, declare they don't have the will, the substance or the guts to meet the challenge. It is a sign of cowardice. It is tacit declaration they know they would lose, that they don't have faith in their position, that they know deep down inside or are consciously aware their own position rots. This applies to any of those persons and groups that oppose free open discussion on the Holocaust. This applies to any of those persons and groups that oppose free open discussion on Zionist activity, in the U.S. and the Mideast.. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:53 PST 1996 Article: 87229 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Socrates and Plato for Revisionist Rights Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 44 Message-ID: <32c99d81.1947310@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 MAN SENTENCED TO DEATH FOR QUESTIONING ORTHODOXY "The effect of these investigations of mine, gentlemen,, has been to arouse against me a great deal of hostility, and hostility of a particularly bitter and persistent kind... There is another reason for my being unpopular. A number of young men with wealthy fathers and plenty of leisure have deliberately attached themselves to me because they enjoy hearing other people cross-questioned. These often take me as their model, and go on to try to question other persons; whereupon, I suppose, they find an unlimited number of people who think that they know something, but really know little or nothing. Consequently their victims become annoyed, not with themselves but with me; and they complain that there is a pestilential busybody called Socrates who fills young people's heads with wrong ideas. If you ask them what he does, and what he teaches that has this effect, they have no answer, not knowing what to say; but as they do not want to admit their confusion, they fall back on the stock charges against any philosopher: that he teaches his pupils about things in the heavens and below the earth, and to disbelieve in gods, and to make the weaker argument defeat the stronger. They would be very loath, I fancy, to admit the truth: which is that they are being convicted of pretending to knowledge when they are entirely ignorant. So, jealous, I suppose, for their own reputation, and also energetic and numerically strong, and provided with a plausible and carefully worked out case against me, these people have been dinning into your ears for a long time past their violent denunciations of myself." Socrates as recorded by Plato in Apology 22E-24A Socrates had the options of denying what he had put forth, take banishment or drink poisonous Hemlock. He defended what he had said and took the drink. Socrates died for all those, to this day, in a struggle against those who would have us accept their thought imposed by force and intrigue. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:54 PST 1996 Article: 87230 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Christians 'take it like a man' Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:18:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <32cb9d90.1962030@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Over the last two years or so there have been a number of articles in the N.Y. and L.A. Times about Biblical revisionism. There also has been a couple sizable articles in TIME Magazine, given front cover attention. The articles have been basically reports on conferences and such, attended by scholars, and the dogmas challenged have ranged from did Christ do this , or did he do that, was he really the son of god. Now if there has been any wailing and snarling of terms like 'anti-Christianism' I don't recall seeing any reports. Nor do I recall seeing anyone out to have any conferences banned. Now there's something noticeably different with all this. Here we have challenges to the very heart of a global religion and nary a uproar, but when it comes to challenging the Holocaust story - "ANTI-SEMITISM - NEO NAZI - BIGOT - RACIST" - and other naughty accusations. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:54 PST 1996 Article: 87231 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence" - Treblinka Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:49:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <32bd6375.5917619@199.0.216.204> References: <329ba952.15778030@199.0.216.204> <32b9491a.6640926@199.0.216.204> <32ae194c.59938773@199.0.216.204> <32c11be4.4881459@199.0.216.204> <32b553bd.405300630@news.zilker.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.45 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >> Show where Moran said "there were no buildings whatsoever", or >>even anything even close. Your failure to show it will be your >>indictment. >> Does Moran mention any buildings for Treblinka in his post, "Air >>Photo Evidence" - Treblinka, Mr.Keren? >> > >Let me quote Moran's prior post. > >" No. There was no rebellion. There were no buildings. There are >no >signs of there ever being any buildings, other than what is shown in >the 1944 photo." ", other than what is shown in the 1944 photo." Mr.Curtis, what is your point? >Mike Curtis > > Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi? > European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/ > Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!) From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:55 PST 1996 Article: 87232 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust Accountability Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:32:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 53 Message-ID: <32ba55b9.2401925@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.45 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 What would happen if the world required all the Holocaust historians to stand accountable under cross examination? We can take a look at what happened at the trial of Ernst Zundel in Canada where he was tried as a heretic to Holocaust lies. 1/17/85 Maria Bohuslawsky of the Toronto Sun reports on a cross-examination that took place the day before at the Ernst Zundel trial, in which self-proclaimed Holocaust "expert" and author Raul Hilberg admitted under oath that after 36 years of studying the Holocaust, 1) he knew of no documentary (printed) evidence that the Nazis murdered or planned to murder Jews in gas chambers, 2) he had identified large parts of the key "confession" of Kurt Gerstein as to the "gassings" as "pure nonsense" and "totally false," 3) when presenting the Gerstein "confession" in his book as proof of Nazi misdeeds he had edited out inconvenient sections in order to make his point, 4) he knew of no autopsies that showed death by gassing, 5) he billed himself as a Holocaust expert for 18 years before even visiting Auschwitz (he then spent only one day there), 6) he was not familiar with many books on the subject of which he was alleged to be the expert, and 7) he knew of no scientific proof that even one Jew had been gassed. (see also the article on the same date by Kirk Makin in the Globe and Mail, and the Sault Star of 1/18/85.) When called upon to testify again in a later trial, Hilberg begged off. Raul Hilberg is yet and currently one of the foremost Holocaust authorities. Seeing what happened at this rare opportunity to put one of the Holocaust authorities to the test we can only imagine what would be the result if all of them were required to stand accountable. Considering the results of what happens when they are put to the test we can see why the fanatic Holocaust dependents try so hard to avoid being made to stand accountable for their story, opting instead to cry "Neo-Nazi", "anti-Semitic". They can give it, but they can't take it. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:56 PST 1996 Article: 87233 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:28:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 96 Message-ID: <32cc9f4c.2406593@199.0.216.204> References: <32bd9cfd.1815600@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the > Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews > > Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz > dead at about 2,300,000. > > "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_. Chicago: World Book, > 1980. 2,500,000 > > Billig, Joseph. _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du > Reich hitlerien_. Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973. > pp 101-102. 2,000,000 > > Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974. p > 855. 1,000,000 to 2,500,000 > > Friedman, Filip. _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_. > Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich. London: > The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 > > Kamenetksy, Ihor. _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_. New > Haven: College and University Press, 1961. p174 2,500,000 > > Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_. Berlin, 1974, 157. 3,500,000 to > > 4,500,000 > > Wellers, Georges. "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au > camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, > 1,600,000 > > Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz: > Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_. Reinbek bei > Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 > > Czech, D. "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte," > in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des > Konzentrationslagers_. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42. > 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 > > Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof. _Resistance in the Nazi concentration > camps, 1933-1945_. Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982, > 44. 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 > > Madajczyk, Czeslaw. _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce; > okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_. Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe, > 1970, 293-94. 2,800,000 to 4,000,000 > > _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator > encyklopedyczny_. Warsaw: Panst. Wydaw. Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369. > 2,500,000 to 4,000,000 > > Nora Levin's "The Holocaust", 2,000,000 to 2,300,000 > > Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991 > Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000 A few more examples recently posted by "Waspnot" to show that the Simon Wiesnthal Center and company committ the lie. Ordinary v. Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers The perfidious English supermen s revisionist version of Auschwitz 4,000,000 extermination history claims that the mainstream of historians and Holocaust researchers have_never_bought into the Soviet estimate for the death toll at Auschwitz. Ever. The U.S. currently has in place the new, revised National Standards for Holocaustes in Schools (NSHS) wherein eight year olds must study genocide, slavery and the Holocaust . And, in New York State students are mandated to study the Irish Potatoe Holocauste. A few MAINSTREAM Facts: Joy Hakim s new revised History of US, Oxford University Press c1995 states that 3,000,000 Jews were murdered at Auschwitz. Deborah Lipstadt, mainstream Holocaust historian, certified the Auschwitz 4,000,000 extermination figure in Beyond Belief . Pres. Ford s visit to pay homage to the 4,000,000 exterminated at Auschwitz was widely reported in the U.S. media (July 30,1995) L.A. Times reported that all 4,000,000 were Jews. Houston Post reported that 3,000,000 were Jews. But, not until 1989 did the mainstream U.S. media (N.Y. Times Yehuda Bauer) report that the Auschwitz 4,000,000 extermination number could not now be proven.And, not until 1994 did the U.S. media (Hearst newspapers) report that the mainstream media and therefore ordinary people had been lied to by the Polak Commies about the Auschwitz 4,000,000. (Now the Auschwitz 1,500,000) > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:57 PST 1996 Article: 87234 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v Mainstream Auschwitz . . . Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:22:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 31 Message-ID: <32c6e83c.39908285@199.0.216.204> References: <17862D0D5S86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > >I made a mistake in an earlier post, and though no one has bothered to correct >it, I thought I'd police myself. In a thread with a similar name to this one >(initiated by "waspnot" [?]) I stated that a Washington Post article, dated >July 30, 1975, appeared to have distanced itself from the claim of four >million dead at Auschwitz, as declared on a placque that once stood there. > >Looking at the article again, it appears that the writers accepted the >claim. > >This does not, however, support the position by Holocaust deniers that >the number then was accepted by all historians or that mysterious gate- >keepers enforced acceptance of the number at Auschwitz. It only means that >reporters used the nearest available source to confirm the number. And that >source turned out to be unreliable. As to what relevance the old number of those said to have been exterminated at Auschwitz has and the present (current) number, which is the same as before the reduction of 3,000,000 victims, Mr.Borowsky is correct in saying "not all historians" accepted the old number and didn't use it in their figuring. There is one exception, out of 20 or 30 others. > >--Bruce Borowsky > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bull Halsey is the 'Netmaster. > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:57 PST 1996 Article: 87235 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Murder of Priests in Dachau Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:29:30 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 37 Message-ID: <32c7ebd8.40832563@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", >ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. > >Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Albanian 2 - 2 - - >Belgian 46 1 3 33 9 >Danish 5 5 - - - >German 447 208 100 45 94 >English 2 - 1 1 - >French 156 5 4 137 10 >Greek 2 - - 2 - >Dutch 63 10 - 36 17 >Italian 28 - 1 26 1 >Lithuanian 3 - - 3 - >Luxemburg 16 2 - 8 6 >Norwegian 1 1 - - - >Polish 1780 78 4 830 868 >Rumanian 1 - - 1 - >Jugoslavian 50 2 6 38 4 >Spanish 1 - - 1 - >Swiss 2 1 - - 1 >Czechoslovakian 109 1 10 74 24 >Hungarian 3 - - 3 - >Stateless 3 - 1 2 - > > >Roman Catholic 2579 >Protestant 109 >Greek Orthodox 22 >Old Catholic and Maronite 8 >Mohammedan 2 > Here we go again. What, no rabbis? From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:58 PST 1996 Article: 87236 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: WHAT I BELIEVE Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:49:58 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <32c0a63e.5148285@199.0.216.204> References: <32c5e76c.39700558@199.0.216.204> <59d7bg$1c8@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > >> Its called 'honor'. Some people have it. Some don't. > > You , for example, do not. > > You have several times challenged me to prove the fairly obvious >truths that you are a liar and an anti-Semite. Yet every time I accept this >challenge you run and hide. Lets do right here. What are you afraid of? > "Honor," l'il tommy. That's a word that should never be in your >vocabulary. Mr.Edeiken is the one who sdid he had 1600 relatives extermianted during the Holocaust. Just on his mothers side of the family. Mr.Edeiken "retracted" the lie when things got rough with demands for proof. Mr.Edeiken claimed a person named "Rachelle" working at the Allentown Library was holding some books that could prove the Jews planted 200,000,000 trees in Israel. Inquiry to the library revealed there was no "Rachelle" working there. This is Mr.Edeiken's idea of 'honor'. > --YFE From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:59 PST 1996 Article: 87237 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:11:04 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 47 Message-ID: <32c0c7b1.13710762@199.0.216.204> References: <32bf0cf2.2566041@199.0.216.204> <32b89bf0.16949745@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >octagon@septa.gon (Up front) writes: > ># If you reduce the bodies to simply their two cubic feet ># of water and stack them into a pyramid you get a structure ># the size of the great pyramid at Giza and enough left over ># in the other 6 million for another pyramid of equal size. > >There are a few grave (no pun intended) problems with this >argument, Matt. > >1) Most corpses were burned. This, of course, decreases the > volume of the remains by a large factor. > >2) Many corpses and huge amount of human remains *were* found. Mr.(Dr.)Keren has used this terminology before, "huge amounts" of human remains were found. I had ask him before to cite the source for his claim. He never came back. Now here we are again. Mr.(Dr.)Keren, you say "huge amounts"? Go for it. Give it the ol' PhD. >3) Stalin's regime is alleged to have killed even more than > six million. You have admitted that you cannot produce > *one* single corpse of one of these victims. You have admitted > that you cannot produce *one* single corpse of someone who > was killed in the alleged aerial attack on Dresden. So, what > you're saying is that not only the Holocaust is a "hoax", but > that Stalin's atrocities and Dresden's bombing are a "hoax" > as well. > >Ooops - but you already said that, in a previous article. > >I knew that it would take a man of your caliber to finally >make this major breakthrough in "revisionism". In this great >country, even senile, unemployed drunkards like you have their >moments of glory. > >Here's a toast for the senile, unemployed drunkard from Tampa, >Matt Giwer. He may be quite a repulsive, boring fellow, but he >will go down in history as one of those who shaped "Holocaust >revisionism" and carried it to heights unheard of. > > >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:19:59 PST 1996 Article: 87238 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:14:07 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <32d6c69f.12472808@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >George Cassutto >Teacher of Social Studies >North Hagerstown High School (MD) A little bit about Mr.Cassutto, evidently the main frame behind turning the North Hagerstown High School into his own little thing. >From Mr.Cassutto's website: "Mr. Cassutto has developed a series of pages on the experiences of his parents, who survived the Holocaust. We hope you will take a minute to review these pages. Their story may be an inspiration to us living in the present day, and the pages within this link might also be used to give the history of the Holocaust a personal side and a human face." From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:00 PST 1996 Article: 87239 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:15:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 154 Message-ID: <32d7c6d7.12529106@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The website relates some of the Holocaust activity being made relevant with other subjects within the school. This fits in with other sites on the web concerning teaching the Holocaust lie in our school systems that goad the Holocaust to be intergrated with just about every subject in the school systems, from math to science to English courses. The only subject they seem to have yet to fit in with the Holocaust is physical education. Here is a summary what the Hagerstown School system is being turned into, taken from the URL supplied by Mr.Cassutto. ==================================================================== The Beast Within: An Interdisciplinary Unit This unit involves a study of the darker side of human nature as explored by the literature and history of 20th century man. The following topics are covered in: Social Studies: The 9th grade US Government course calls for an examination of authoritarian government as compared with a democratic system. To achieve this goal, we examine the human rights abuses of such regimes as Nazi Germany, Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Cuba under Fidel Castro, and China under the Communist Party. The Social Studies curriculum allows for an examination of the Holocaust as the epitome of evil that Man is capable of. In order to gain a full understanding of the impact of this event on the lives of individuals as well as on history, the 9th grade takes a trip to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Students of US Government and History should also be able to apply the lessons of the Holocaust to current events and examples of modern-day genocide, including the tragedy taking place in Bosnia at the present time. A series of discussion questions and activities designed as a study guide for use before, during, and after the visit to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has been posted as a resource. Many of the questions have been developed from data found in Michael Berenbaum's book The World Must Know: The History of the Holocaust As Told By the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. English: Various pieces of literature that illustrate the darker side of man's free will. Topics include genocide, segregation, discrimination, hate crimes, and war as an instrument of evil. The following writing options will help the student make sense of the student's experience at the Holocaust Museum or when dealing with other Holocaust resources. 1) Select an artifact or photograph that had the greatest impact on you. List and describe everything you can think of about it relating to its hidden history. In other words, write a narrative telling your story as this artifact or photograph. Try to make this as authentic and historically accurate as you can understanding that your narrative will be a fictionalized account. This account will be in the first person. For example:" I am the cast-off shoe of Daniel..." (This should be a minimum of two double-spaced pages). 2) Write a narrative poem (1-2 pages, double spaced in length) which tells the story of one of the Holocaust survivors or victims. Use all the elements present in a narrative: plot, setting, viewpoint, theme. Rhyme is optional, but attention should be paid to imagery and figures of speech. 3) Write an explanatory essay, modelling the sample given for the traditional essay in your grammar textbook. Explore a theme inpired by this unit. Examples could include lessons learned from Holocaust ordeals, from Holocaust vistim and survivors' courage, the individual in conflict with society, how to combat Man's inhumanity to Man in everyday life, etc. Make sure each essay has a focused thesis at the end of its introductory paragraph and the structure suggested. Science: The Science teacher, Ms. Hurley plans to discuss the following elements: Genetics: Hitler's Eugenics program and the bioethics of genetic engineering and biotechnology. The inhumane nature and scientific fallacies of the medical experiments carried out in the camps by the Angel of Death, Joseph Mengele. The psuedo-science of racial classification and where racial studies have gone today. The study of genetic-related diseases such as Tay-Sachs, Sickle Cell Anemia, Huntington's Chorea, Down's Syndrome and other genetically transmitted diseases. In the area of biology, these diseases would represent "the beast within" the human body. Studying the social aspects of discrimination against those with these diseases during the period of Nazi Germany and in today's society might be an interesting appraoch to this biological component. Mathematics: Ms. Cross, our Math teacher, plans to have students examine the following elements: Students will develop line, bar, circle or pictographs, illustrating some statistical application of Holocaust data. possible applications include: Percentage of Jewish populations decimated by the Final Solution and percentages of populations remaining by county. Inmate populations of the major killing centers and concentrations camps during the chronology of the Holocaust. Percentage on non-Jewish victims by country at any one time. Statistics on the Nazi rise to power as seen in number of seats gained in the Reichstag from 1928 to 1932. Extent of German control of occupied territory by year in square miles and kilometers. Number of acquitted, sentenced and executed Nazi war criminals as a result of the Nuremburg Trials. Numerical comparisons between genocides of the Armenian, Cambodian, and Rwandan episodes and that of the Jewish Holocaust. A geopolitical analysis of the land distribution between ethnic groups in Bosnia as a result of pending peace talks. In reaction to the data presented at the Holocaust Museum and in class, students may also be given the following assignment choices: Write an essay or poem describing how you would have felt had you been a survivor of the Holocaust. Draw a sketch or other artistic expression describing what the Holocaust means to you. Include a written caption explaining the symbols of your artistic expression. Develop a short research paper that outlines where events such as the Holocaust are still taking place or have taken place in recent world history. Include a comment on the lesson of the Holocaust for current generations and world leaders. Please read the poetry of 9th grade North High students who has visited the Holocaust Memorial Museum. A. B. Mary L. Shannon S. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:01 PST 1996 Article: 87240 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:50:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <32b8048a.414354@199.0.216.204> References: <32bd9cfd.1815600@199.0.216.204> <32cc9f4c.2406593@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 No doubt there are many more examples out there in books and publications that would show the lie. As it stands now, there are probably 30 or so examples to show that the Simon Wiesenthal Center commits the evil deed of claiming the old number never had any thing to do with the overall number of 6,000,000 Jews alleged to have been exterminated by the Germans. And now it looks like it has become a part of the 'National Standards for Holocausts in Schools' (NSHS) where the teachers will be required to teach the big lie on top of the overall Holocaust lie. Our little minds going off to school where the teachers have to teach it and the little minds will have to believe it. So much for the United States of America. So much for all the lives lost that resulted in the grandest of all documents, The Constitution of the United States and The Bill of Rights. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:02 PST 1996 Article: 87241 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:52:02 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <32b904a8.444562@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> <32bd7134.5216501@199.0.216.204> <32bf73b3.5855114@199.0.216.204> <32c17594.6335763@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >>>>>Dear Readers, >>>>> >>>>>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>>>>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>>>>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>>>>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. ============================================================================ >>> I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto, Teacher of Social >>>Studies, North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of >>>his students and see what they think about the simple question - >>> >>> Does the world have the right to question existing historical >>>accounts? >> >> My second question would be to inquire if any of the students are >>aware that many things that were once claimed about this Holocaust are >>now recognized as being untrue? > > I would also like to know if your students think any opposition >to existing historical accounts should be taught in our schools also. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Whether or not this is a hit and run by Mr.Cassutto, thinking all he has to do is come out and announce his website and then fade away hoping people will accept it all with blind acceptance, we will have to wait and see. His website solicits responses galore, even having highlighted links for e-mail to individual students. Of course we can bet Mr.Cassutto will be the one who does the reading and determining which e-mails he will pass on to the students. As to the straight forward questions posed above, we can count on getting no reply. All announcements, proclamations and claims, and no response to questions, that's what the Holocaust dependents like. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:03 PST 1996 Article: 87242 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:16:35 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <32bd0a1a.1838889@199.0.216.204> References: <579q7e$c8d@Vir.com> <32b1e4a1.2136582@199.0.216.204> <32b0edbf.19948430@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) writes: > ># Since you wish to continue this, little Danny, NAME THE ># CAMP that fits the descriptions given of Treblinka as ># Treblinka certainly fits no description given. > >As I have suggested in an earlier post, best thing to do >is try and contact the author. I am not a mind-reader and >I cannot speak for him. My first guess would be Auschwitz, >the second Maidanek. Mr.Keren, would either one of these camps have the Holocaust history described by the eyewitness/Sachar/"Redemption of the Unwanted"/Old Frogs Almanac of the Soviets over running the camp and finding train loads of dead bodies? >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:03 PST 1996 Article: 87243 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:30:37 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 39 Message-ID: <32d9ca34.13390220@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32d7c6d7.12529106@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Mr.Cassutto wrote: >>>>>Dear Readers, >>>>> >>>>>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>>>>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>>>>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>>>>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. ============================================================================ Moran ask: >>> I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto, Teacher of Social >>>Studies, North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of >>>his students and see what they think about the simple question - >>> >>> Does the world have the right to question existing historical >>>accounts? >> >> My second question would be to inquire if any of the students are >>aware that many things that were once claimed about this Holocaust are >>now recognized as being untrue? > > I would also like to know if your students think any opposition >to existing historical accounts should be taught in our schools also. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Whether or not this is a hit and run by Mr.Cassutto, thinking all he has to do is come out and announce his website and then fade away hoping people will accept it all with blind acceptance, we will have to wait and see. His website solicits responses galore, even having highlighted links for e-mail to individual students. Of course we can bet Mr.Cassutto will be the one who does the reading and determining which e-mails he will pass on to the students. As to the straight forward questions posed above, we can count on getting no reply. All announcements, proclamations and claims, and no response to questions, lest of course they show undaunting support for the material, this is the norm. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 11:20:04 PST 1996 Article: 87244 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:53:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <32bc052d.577316@199.0.216.204> References: <32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> <32bbc2f0.5456469@199.0.216.204> <32B29F1A.CD7@rio.com><32b2412f.4614359@199.0.216.204> <32bbc2f0.5456469@199.0.216.204> <32B29F1A.CD7@rio.com> <32b457a2.7640397@news.gte.net> <5956fp$ou6$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In message <32b457a2.7640397@news.gte.net> - destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh >Burke)Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:26:49 GMT writes: >:> > >[deleted] > >:> Now this is an excellant example of deception. It is true that the >:>distance from the MAIN entrance to K II and III is on the order of a >:>mile. It is also true that the distance from the rail unloading ramp >:>to K II and III is on the order of 600 feet and are clearly visible >:>from that ramp. > >Apart from the obvious rubbish in Giwer's statement, one wonders why >Auschwitz--that Nazi home away from home--had so damn many Kremas. I wonder >if the drunken troll has an answer for that? > >[Note to lurkers: we all know what he will be told to say] > "McFee", why do you suppose the Germans didn't build the rail line past the Cremas II and III, instead opting to end the line right there where only the last car or engine could get to? Why did the Germans unload people intended for mass extermination 600 feet away? Especially since the story has it the buildings were built exclusively for the purpose of mass exterminating hundreds of thousands of people, one would think they would have built the rail line past the two cremas so they could unload them right there instead of having them, the thousands, each day, day after day, week after week, month after month, walk the 600 feet, past the women's section on one side and the mens section on the other side. What about that "McFee"? >-- >Gord McFee >I'll write no line before its time > From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 13:36:27 PST 1996 Article: 87313 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Prof. Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:58:19 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32c1a905.5858849@199.0.216.204> References: <32b7977d.407049@199.0.216.204> <32b94e74.541340@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: >Well, Tommy, why don't you do something productive for a change, >and study this matter? You could start by writing the "Institute >for Contemporary History" in Munich, for instance. > >Why should I do your work for you, Tommy? > >BTW, I assume that the spinning mills were not at the death camp >itself, but in the town of Belzec. > >But, once again: if you're interested in this topic, why don't >you do some research yourself? > ># Mr.(Dr.)Keren? > >Is this "Mr.(Dr.)" thing supposed to insult me, Tommy? You're >60-years-old, right? Can you possibly start acting your age? > >Or is that old inferiority complex kicking into gear again, Tommy? >-Danny Keren. Okay, Mr.(Dr.)Keren says he doesn't want to stand by his post. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 13:36:27 PST 1996 Article: 87314 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers - Revised Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:59:26 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <32c2a9b5.6035049@199.0.216.204> References: <32bbbf9d.48304779@199.0.216.204> <59d6dg$1c8@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > > >> Mr.Browosky states, "this figure had already been challenged by >> serious historians as early as the 1960s", but then this of course >> would be the exception and not the rule. The facts are, a actual >> record is posted from time to time shows the rule and Mr.Browosky and >> the rest of the Holocaust dependents just claim it ain't so. The >> record stands at about 30 to 1. Thirty examples for the higher Jewish >> numbers and one example (Reitlinger) for the lower. If all examples >> were known it would be more like 100s to 1 or 2. > > Odd, isn't it that you cannot post a single historian of the Holocaust that >accepts the number of 4,000,000 Jews murdered at Auschwitz. > > --YFE See "BEHOLD THE LIE". From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 16:23:32 PST 1996 Article: 87343 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.christian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power Subject: Re: Jews and Crosses Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 22:08:50 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 4 Message-ID: <32c20dee.31692109@199.0.216.204> References: <59ed29$aej$2@uhura.phoenix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.35 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:87343 alt.religion.christian:160860 alt.politics.nationalism.white:39905 alt.politics.white-power:52837 The Jews love to recount all the places that the people rose up against whatever they were up to. They call it persecution. Whatever, they create their own history. An ugly thing. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 19:56:03 PST 1996 Article: 87379 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Away with the Christmas tree in with the Star of David Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:50:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <32bcc3c6.12708216@199.0.216.204> References: <32bda41b.4600902@199.0.216.204> <32bfa573.4944952@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 What is a "Goony Bird"? A Goony bird is a real bird. It lays it's eggs in the nest of another species that is smaller in size. The unwary little bird sits on the eggs not knowing there is alien egg in the nest with her own. The eggs hatch and then the bigger Goony chick, with evolutionary instinct proceeds to nudge the other chicks out of the nest while the parent is away. The parent comes back and proceeds to carry on feeding the Goony chick until the day it flys away. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 19:56:03 PST 1996 Article: 87383 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Once upon a time Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:50:09 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <32bbc3af.12685368@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 "It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special way; there they were killed." IMT VII - p.576-577. "IMT", International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg Trials. Evidence now accepted, begrudgedly by some, as lies. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 22:36:20 PST 1996 Article: 87395 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: L.A.Times headlines, one thing, the copy another Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:55:26 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <32bfc4cd.12971197@199.0.216.204> References: <32bdc3d3.12720959@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.43 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Dec.20, 1996, big day for Jewish say in the L.A. and N.Y.Times. New York Times ============== A.M.Rosenthal, regular Jewish columnist, raging for all things good Jews. Four Letters to the Editor. Andrew Herenstien, Laura Klinger, Lisa Feldman and Michael Forbes (Member of Congress). All things bad Arab/Palestinian, all things good Jews. Las Angeles Times ================= Article, things bad Palestinian, all things Jewish as victims. Two editorials, between the lines, Irving Moskowitz and Henry Siegman, bad Palestinians and good Jewish victims. So today, Dec.20, 1996, Jews and one Congressional lackey, making it 8 to 0, Jews good, Palestinians not good. From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 22:36:21 PST 1996 Article: 87424 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism Subject: Re: A Nazi replies to a War Criminal Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:43:05 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 39 Message-ID: <32bc61f0.5529409@199.0.216.204> References: <32A2CDAA.7C19@rio.com> <58iimu$pfl@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <32ad1c48.7447280@news.gte.net> <58mn6s$gme@ratty.wolfe.net> <32b0e620.17997329@news.gte.net> <32b3499e.21753265@news.gte.net> <5901fn$i7k@ratty.wolfe.net> <32ba5838.172758354@news.zilker.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.45 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:122961 alt.politics.nationalism.white:39981 alt.politics.white-power:52892 alt.revisionism:87424 alt.society.conservatism:65473 >dstowers@wolfenet.com (Drew Stowers) wrote: > >>destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) wrote: >> > >The troll may not respond to you. :-) > >> >>> That is NOT and IF. The six million DID include four million from >>>Auschwitz. >> >>Did it? Most sources I've read don't add up the death tolls of each >>individual camp, ghetto, anti-tank ditch, or train car to get a >>figure. Instead they took the number of Jews that were know to be >>alive prior to the start of the war and then counted the number left >>alive at the end of the war. BTW why are you (and other revisionist) >>stuck on Auschwitz. What about Treblinka, Belsec, Sibibor, and >>Chelmno? Hundreds of thousands died in these camps but you never >>mention them. >> > >The camps above were strictly death camps or extermination camps. >Auschwitz was multipurpose and was several camps. This makes their >distortions easy to form. That is why Auschwitz is so popular with the >denial groups. > > >However, good show! Interesting switcheroo. The facts are, Holocaust accounts focuses on Auschwitz. Auschwitz is 99% of the story. This is the documented fact. >Mike Curtis > > Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi? > European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/ > Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!) From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Dec 21 22:36:22 PST 1996 Article: 87450 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Heads Up L'il Tommy Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:05:15 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <32bc99f2.1036050@199.0.216.204> References: <199612032349.PAA24815@mailmasher.com> <32ac52dd.38183530@news.gte.net> <32ADE9FB.34D8@trib.infi.net> <58mj4a$eon@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32b209af.220743@199.0.216.204> <32b30b9e.1039630@news.uniserve.com><199612032349.PAA24815@mailmasher.com> <32ac52dd.38183530@news.gte.net> <32ADE9FB.34D8@trib.infi.net> <58mj4a$eon@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32b209af.220743@199.0.216.204> <32b30b9e.1039630@news.uniserve.com> <32bd18c8.6496913@199.0.216.204> <594h7c$pdq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:39998 alt.politics.white-power:52906 alt.revisionism:87450 >In message <32bd18c8.6496913@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran)Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:28:51 GMT writes: >:> >:> >:>The Best of Nizkor; > >How's the wife and kids, zeyde? "McFee", since we have a documented history of being of opposite veiws, and many examples of uptight reaction from yourself, I will ask you right now, why do ask "How's the wife and kids?"? >-- >Gord McFee >I'll write no line before its time > From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:06:56 PST 1996 Article: 87533 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Jewish Semites: a highly derivative culture, at best. Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:09:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 69 Message-ID: <32c840f9.15885792@199.0.216.204> References: <32c7cbbf.14209817@news.mbay.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.85 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:52951 alt.politics.nationalism.white:40043 alt.revisionism:87533 >Everyone interested in History and Truth read: > > The Sumerians > C. Leonard Woolsey > Barnes and Noble, 1995 > >Woolsey's book is a Barnes and Noble reissue of an earlier Oxford >Press Edition. > >Woolsley led the team that excavated the Sumerian city of Ur, circa >1927. > >The Sumerians are the oldest documented civilization. They were a >non-semitic-speaking people whose artifacts date to at least 3500bc. >Among these artifacts are lists of kings that point back to >unimaginable antiquity. > >Among other things, Sumerians invented the wheel; they invented >writing. More current writings on the Sumerians puts them coming into the "Fertile Crescent" area around 4,000 years ago. The development of writing is well documented in hundreds of thousands of clay shards found. Showing the evolution from pictograph to abstract representation to Cuneiform and on to the alphabet we use today, which was mostly developed by the Phoenicians who were the Hebrews next door neighbors, and who the Hebrews had to call on to build their temples and any ships they had. >Hebrew culture dates to 1960bc. The most common date given for the archeological (non-biblical) record for the Hebrew existence doesn't start until 1250 BC. By this time many things had been developed. Comparing anything available for the Hebrew record shows them to have been the most backward group in the area, almost being totally devoid of any kind of culture outside of what the Bible tells us, which is being recognized more and more as fiction, even unto "David". Biblical scholars have to refer to the records of other cultures in order to confirm or deny biblical accounts, with the results being mostly denial. Jews still, to this day, bemoan their slavery to Egypt, that they built the pyramids. The Jewish existence is currently put at starting around 1250 BC and the pyramids were built almost a couple of thousand years before that. The Bible also has a number of accounts of how the Jews called for Egyptian aid in dealing with enemies and some running off to that land for sanctuary when they had disputes with each other. Jewish history is kind of humorous in it's own little way. >According to Woolsey, when the Sumerians came into what is today >Southern Iraq they found extremely barbarous semitic-speaking peoples >whom they had little trouble enslaving. Over time, these and other >semitic peoples in the region acquired culture by osmosis until they >developed competitive civilizations (eg, the Akkadians). > >Virtually every cultural element, including Monotheism, that the >Hebrews and Christians later self-promoted they derived from Sumerian >influence and teachings. > >Read this book. The Chosen People are no more than third-rate >plagiarists, echoing commercial versions of ideas passed onto them by >a great non-semitic civilization that considered the semitic-epeaking >peoples of the mid-east crude and backward. > >titan > From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:06:57 PST 1996 Article: 87536 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:20:23 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32c17594.6335763@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> <32bd7134.5216501@199.0.216.204> <32bf73b3.5855114@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >>>>Dear Readers, >>>> >>>>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>>>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>>>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>>>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. >> >> >>> [ "The world must/should/needs to know ..." ] >> >> I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto Teacher of Social >>Studies North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of >>his students and see what they think about the simple question - >> >> Does the world have the right to question existing historical >>accounts? > > My second question would be to inquire if any of the students are >aware that many things that were once claimed about this Holocaust are >now recognized as being untrue? I would also like to know if your students think any opposition to existing historical accounts should be taught in our schools also. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:06:58 PST 1996 Article: 87537 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Big "Mistake" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:36:22 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 34 Message-ID: <32cac03f.25450652@199.0.216.204> References: <32b52f51.4486548@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >As I have said, the most logical assumption is that the >author quoted by Tom Moran confused the names of two >different camps. The best thing, I guess, is to ask him; >does anyone know how to contact the author (Sachar, >Abram L.)? >-Danny Keren. If anyone out here has the capability to contact Abram Sachar, it's Mr.Keren. He is very active in the workings of a number of Holocaust promotional networks. If Mr.Keren should say he has gotten in touch with Abram Sachar and Mr.Keren says Mr.Sachar says it was a mistake, how would we know? If Mr.Sachar should come back and claim he made a mistake, would he subject himself to cross examination? As it stands now, we have what Mr.Sachar wrote and what Mr.Keren offers. Mr.Keren, which part is a "mistake"? I realize you said Abram Sachar might have mistaken what camp he was relating to, so maybe you could suggest which camp this piece of his tale speaks of, "When the Russians took over Treblinka, there was no shortage of evidence, the suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars, the abandoned instruments of torture and death, the files and records that the Germans had so carefully maintained". Now Mr.Keren, can you say which camp it might have been that the Russians took over where there were still "the suffocated bodies in recently arrived cattle cars"? From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:06:58 PST 1996 Article: 87538 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:36:35 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 32 Message-ID: <32cbc0db.25607078@199.0.216.204> References: <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com> <58s9st$i7l@access5.digex.net> <32c426e1.10106364@199.0.216.204> <32c527ac.10309202@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article , >Marty Kelley wrote: > >[an abject moron wrote] > >>> > Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style, >>> >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. > >>> The same goes for "McFee". > >>Oooh, that's a new one, Mr. Moran--could you explain how you can tell what >>people's ethnic/religious backgrounds are by their writing style? This >>will no doubt be of great use to Science. > >Mr. Kelley, I think it will rank right up there with Certified >100% Pure Aryan Earwax... where, or where, is Leslie Griswold when >you need comic relief? > >Having met Mr. McFee, I can testify that he drinks Guinness. (And you >know what _that_ means.) > >As to determinations based upon one's writing, I'd say there are >interesting possibilities... Reading Mr. Moran's archives, for >instance, suggests that he is obviously an idiot. > >http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/moran-tom/ > > >-- >Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org Hilary, I know that's you. What have you done with McVay? From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:06:59 PST 1996 Article: 87539 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:52:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <32b69760.378598@199.0.216.204> References: <19961212201400.PAA12858@ladder01.news.aol.com> <58s9st$i7l@access5.digex.net> <32c426e1.10106364@199.0.216.204> <32c527ac.10309202@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:87539 alt.usenet.kooks:32220 >On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, tom moran wrote: > >> >> > Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style, >> >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. >> >> The same goes for "McFee". > >Oooh, that's a new one, Mr. Moran--could you explain how you can tell what >people's ethnic/religious backgrounds are by their writing style? This >will no doubt be of great use to Science. Over fifteen years of reading Jewish stuff. Hundreds of letters to editors, hundreds of signed and unsigned editorials, hundreds of ads, thousands of lines from other sources, including right out here. It's a culminating thing, like it is when we have knowledge of anything. The more you see, the more you notice. >---------------------- >Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) > >"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. >When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." > --Dom Helder Camara > From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:07:00 PST 1996 Article: 87540 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Prof. Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:53:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 86 Message-ID: <32b7977d.407049@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing >at Belzec >[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The >Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244] >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August >1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I >would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations >with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large >spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that >work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When >I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly >that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the >extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were >killed at the the camp at Belzec... Mr.Keren, poster of this eyewitness testimony, could you expand on what this witness meant by, "When I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly that they had come from the Jews". If one had an aerial photograph or eyewitness plan of this Belzec, could you explain where these spinning mills would have been? The testimony also states Globocnik told him, "He also mentioned that work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production". Now we haven't any other information on this spinning industry at this time, said to have taken place at Belzec but, "considerably outstrip(ing)" the German spinning industry seems quite awesome and we should think there should be some kind of record of the Belzec industry being put together, machines, shipping whatever and records of distribution of the finished spinning product. Do you know if there is any record of this? >During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain >Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the >extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following >morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the >camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He >asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination >actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I >planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the >extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however, >first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp, >spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next >morning. > >A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight >cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania >or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There >were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get >into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off >their shoes... > >After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The >women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was >shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut, >where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the >women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole >procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a >hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination >centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of >the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt >Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was >brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be >killed here... > >Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was >channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same >building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were >windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so >that the bodies could be removed. People were led from a corridor >into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There >was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall. >Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room >but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the >glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room >the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents >to the chambers opened. Whether they were stop-valves or vents I >would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly >to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the >chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in >the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed >something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the >thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 10:07:01 PST 1996 Article: 87559 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.229.87.25!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust Day of Rememberance Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <32c89d7b.1941214@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 4/17/96 in the N.Y. Times the report on the Jews holocaust bombing of Lebanon's vital installations for survival like electrical power plants that operate hospitals and such with American supplied arms and the intentional bombing of refugee camps, mentioned the Jews eased up for "2 minutes" in respect for Holocaust "Day of Remembrance. In the L.A.Times, same day, "Rotunda Rite in Remembrance of Holocaust" it was reported that the main responsible parties for supplying the arms of terrorism to Israel gathered at the Rotunda rite in observance or Day of Remembrance. "Members of Congress, Jewish leaders and five Supreme Court justices gathered for the 15th Rotunda ceremony ..." ======================================================================== It didn't say how many members of congress attended, but it also reported that "Shortly after, the House passed, 420 - 0, a resolution deploring individuals who deny the historical reality of the Holocaust. It is probable that attempts were made to have the House ban the right of anyone to deny the "reality" but this is all they dared right now. But it could be a prelude. ======================================================================= In the mean time our congress will be hard at work to see that the Jews get all the things they need to continue their Holocaust in the Mideast. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 12:11:09 PST 1996 Article: 87619 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:16:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 2 Message-ID: <32c09d3e.1880192@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The Holocaust promotional network's pet word. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 16:38:18 PST 1996 Article: 87655 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:03:21 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <32bd7134.5216501@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >>Dear Readers, >> >>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. > [ "The world must/should/needs to know ..." ] I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto Teacher of Social Studies North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of his students and see what they think about the simple question - Does the world have the right to question existing historical accounts? From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 16:38:19 PST 1996 Article: 87656 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Since you asked, Mr. Moran...[rather long post] (Was Re: Treblinka , mass graves) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:37:47 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <32cdc0ff.25643219@199.0.216.204> References: <32c01a90.6952626@199.0.216.204> <591bj3$per@news.enter.net> <32c740bc.16724882@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, tom moran wrote: >> >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: And then >[Marty Kelley wrote] Seven hundred (700) lines of response. Mr.Kelley and Moran have been through this a number of times before. Mr.Kelley gets no response to his gasping out of breath 700 lines until he includes what was given to him in the past. In the mean time, Moran reiterates, Jews and Jewish organizations have been active in intimidating the ban of the cross, Christmas tree, the Nativity Scene and singing Christmas carols in public places while arguing the menorah is okay because it is a secular symbol, which it isn't. Moran also said that "Schindler's List" was a flop. From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 16:38:20 PST 1996 Article: 87657 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: CHARGES Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 7 Message-ID: <32c39d59.1906886@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 What should one make of it if someone makes charges of anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and/or racism and can't or refuses to follow up with an argument for proof? From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 16:38:21 PST 1996 Article: 87658 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Bacon, Diogenes, Homer, Voltaire - enemies of Holocaust tyranny Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32c19d4b.1892880@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Or, Disagreeable Words for the ADL, Simon Wiesenthal and Co. ============================== "Liberty of speech, inviteth and provoketh liberty to be used again, and so bringeth much to a man's knowledge." Francis Bacon "The most beautiful thing in the world is freedom of speech." Diogenes "To speaketh his thoughts is every freeman's right, in peace and war, in council and in fight." Homer "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire Freedom of Speech is the enemy of the totalitarian Holocaust lie. Moran From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Dec 22 16:38:22 PST 1996 Article: 87659 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:17:42 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 42 Message-ID: <32c79d73.1933524@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.19.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 During the American Revolution fighting took place for years. Over the plains and up the mountains, guns, cannons, fire and freezing cold. Men losing their arms, legs and lives. Sons and daughters losing fathers. Wives losing husbands. Friends dying together in mangled lumps. And when it was all over the United States stood before the world with its grand document like no other nation had ever seen before. The Constitution of the United states. This quest for freedom is not something unique to the United States alone, it has been going on for w. In ancient Greece and Rome, and before that, the struggle has been going on. The French Revolution the Magna Carta. Many fighters have died across the ages and the Constitution of the United States is the latest and most significant of the culmination this human struggle. We must recognize these ancient fighters as part of our heritage. Now here we are, 200 and some years after the Revolution and thousands of years after the others with Simon Wiesenthals, ADLs and the like come latelies plying about our nation trying to undo it all. Regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their place at the head of this human history of seeking justice and freedoms for the people, ancient Israel never had such freedoms for their own people under their own government, the truth lies in their two little books. And the history of their activity in the United States is well documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using it to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2% putting out the 100% on how great they are. Its lucky we have the ACLU with the Jewish leadership out on the front lines defending us. Going to court, raising legal precedences, citing this and that, filing this, making a motion for that. Of course all this is prone to juggling by some magistrate before he or she makes a determination. One person, maybe two or three. One giving here, another giving there. This is the vulnerability of our freedoms if we should allow it to be a legal issue, dependant on the will and competency of the minuscule. The Constitution of the United States is a philosophical doctrine. It can not be left up to magistrates and senators to make amendments or set limits on the basic tenets as they have been doing with increasing frequency. The Constitution being a philosophical document should be left up to the national discussion. It has to be discussed in the same fashion that we would discuss any philosophy. Some talk real democracy, others just use the word. From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 23 07:54:00 PST 1996 Article: 87755 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!erix.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-xfer.netaxs.com!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Flat Earth and the Holocaust Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:01:17 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 39 Message-ID: <32c64c91.2482115@199.0.216.204> References: <32b8bacc.601483@199.0.216.204> <32b55de5.273856@199.0.216.204> <59iakf$12hh@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32b55de5.273856@199.0.216.204>, >tom moran wrote: >>> >>> The only difference between those who so adamantly push the >>>Holocaust story and the 'Flat Earth Society' is, that the latter >>>doesn't go around trying to have it made a law demanding we have to >>>believe it. > >Who does, tommy? Name one person in this forum >who thinks that Holocaust denial should be outlawed. > >I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but >every statement from Ken, Jamie, and others that i've >read supports your right to speak your mind. > >Now, this doesn't mean we'll let you distort >history withour speaking _our_ minds. The Holocaust revisionist aim is to 'undistort' history. >> There is that other major difference between those who belong to >>the Flat Earth Society and those who pushy push the Holocaust story, >>the Flat Earther's know it's a spoof. But then again, those who pushy >>push the Holocaust story try awfully hard to keep it from being >>questioned so there seems to be something with that. > >If that was true, then why do we support your right >to make an ass out of yourself in this forum, free >from censorship? Lets take it to the campuses directly? Is that what you would support? Or would you be one out there with Hillel? How come we don't see any Holocaust revisionism in and on our medias? >- Brian > From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Dec 23 07:54:01 PST 1996 Article: 87756 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Jewishness is a "gift" Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:04:57 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <32cc5aa9.6090193@199.0.216.204> References: <32ca5483.4515549@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The same day Nemoy was telling how wonderful Jewishness is, gitfted Jewish "settlers" in the West Bank were having it out with a bunch of school children. The chosen also attacked reporters who were recording the incident. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:00 PST 1996 Article: 87873 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:55:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 33 Message-ID: <32d440a1.15995917@199.0.216.204> References: <32B4781E.1383@fred.net> <32b86bd4.3839861@199.0.216.204> <32bd7134.5216501@199.0.216.204> <32bce646.804807@news.inetport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >>>>Dear Readers, >>>> >>>>Our interdisciplinary team has developed a unit on Tolerance and the >>>>Holocaust entitled "The Beast Within." The web page that grew from this >>>>unit has been on our website for the past year at >>>>http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/beast.htm. >> >> >>> [ "The world must/should/needs to know ..." ] >> >> I would ask the instructor, George Cassutto Teacher of Social >>Studies North Hagerstown High School (MD) if he would do a survey of >>his students and see what they think about the simple question - >> >> Does the world have the right to question existing historical >>accounts? > >A hard thin for most deniers to grasp is that existing historical >accounts have been questioned and analyzed. New documentation is being >found since the fall of the Soviet Union and that material is being >questioned. Questioning is one thing that the world, as you put it, is >not really doing. A small hysterical fringe is trying to deny the >history by any means they can. Unfortunately the world doesn't seem >very interested. Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? >Mike Curtis >E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com >Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:01 PST 1996 Article: 87874 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v Mainstream Auschwitz 4,000,000 Deniers - Revised Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:02:48 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32d741a7.16257964@199.0.216.204> References: <32c2a9b5.6035049@199.0.216.204> <59fjo2$jtp@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > > >> > Odd, isn't it that you cannot post a single historian of the Holocaust that >> >accepts the number of 4,000,000 Jews murdered at Auschwitz. > >> See "BEHOLD THE LIE". > > I did. At least one of the quotes I checked (supposedly from the >Encyclopedia Judiaca) was a fraudulent misrepresentation. One historian was >quoted without citing a source (Yehuda Bauer). Other than Bauer not a single >recognized historian was cited. "Recognized" historian. Interesting. Of course we have to wonder about who will do the recognizing. Anyway, go yell it from the mountain tops. It won't do any good. The examples are plenty for the one and quite rare for the other. > --YFE From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:02 PST 1996 Article: 87886 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Murder of Priests in Dachau Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:12:08 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <32d4c01c.32060381@199.0.216.204> References: <32c7ebd8.40832563@199.0.216.204> <32bc9429.14121601@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:29:30 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > >>>Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", >>>ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. >>> >>>Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Albanian 2 - 2 - - >>>Belgian 46 1 3 33 9 >>>Danish 5 5 - - - >>>German 447 208 100 45 94 >>>English 2 - 1 1 - >>>French 156 5 4 137 10 >>>Greek 2 - - 2 - >>>Dutch 63 10 - 36 17 >>>Italian 28 - 1 26 1 >>>Lithuanian 3 - - 3 - >>>Luxemburg 16 2 - 8 6 >>>Norwegian 1 1 - - - >>>Polish 1780 78 4 830 868 >>>Rumanian 1 - - 1 - >>>Jugoslavian 50 2 6 38 4 >>>Spanish 1 - - 1 - >>>Swiss 2 1 - - 1 >>>Czechoslovakian 109 1 10 74 24 >>>Hungarian 3 - - 3 - >>>Stateless 3 - 1 2 - >>> >>> >>>Roman Catholic 2579 >>>Protestant 109 >>>Greek Orthodox 22 >>>Old Catholic and Maronite 8 >>>Mohammedan 2 >>> >> >> Here we go again. >> >> What, no rabbis? > > They did not list shamans. Giwer. Do you post in your sleep? From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:02 PST 1996 Article: 87888 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Khatyn? Katyn? Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:00:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 4 Message-ID: <32d068e9.9737708@199.0.216.204> References: <851107279.546635@mn8> <32c1eded.2764391@news.inetport.com> <32c24745.1126346@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > The Allies sat back and acquiesced. "Silence is consent." From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:03 PST 1996 Article: 87890 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Khatyn? Katyn? Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:03:38 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 7 Message-ID: <32d169bf.9951915@199.0.216.204> References: <851107279.546635@mn8> <32c1eded.2764391@news.inetport.com> <32c24745.1126346@199.0.216.204> <32d068e9.9737708@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > >> The Allies sat back and acquiesced. > > "Silence is consent." "To remain silent when one should speak out, is to make cowards of men." From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:04 PST 1996 Article: 87892 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: CHARGES Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:51:43 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <32c44a62.1922759@199.0.216.204> References: <32c39d59.1906886@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In article <32c39d59.1906886@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) >wrote: > >> >> What should one make of it if someone makes charges of >> anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism and/or racism and can't or refuses to follow >> up with an argument for proof? > >Well, Mr. Moron, sometimes the proof is in the words of the "accused." > >Like when someone uses the words "Yid" and "kike" enough times, that's >proof enough for me. I'll go with you here. The use of derogatory ethnic nicknames signafies, to me anyway, blanket prejudice. Who do you have in mind or refer to as using the terms '"Yid"' and '"kike"'? >Sara > >-- >"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the >Christian religion." > George Washington, 1796 From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:05 PST 1996 Article: 87895 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Ordinary v Mainstream Auschwitz . . . Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:55:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 160 Message-ID: <32d04095.15984108@199.0.216.204> References: <17862D0D5S86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> <19961220132800.IAA05177@ladder01.news.aol.com> <17863FAD8S86.BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The URL is from Nizkor. > http://search.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/appendix-2.html This is it. Deceit & Misrepresentation The Techniques of Holocaust Denial Appendix 2 Historical sources and the Auschwitz death toll estimates Appendix A: Auschwitz Death Tolls in Western Sources "Auschwitz" The World Book Encyclopedia. Chicago: World Book, 1980. (2.5 million) Bauer, Yehuda. A History of the Holocaust. New York: F. Watts. 1982. p 215. (1.5 to 3.5 million.) [Jews that is] Yeduha Bauer. "Danger of Distortion, Poles and Jews alike are supplying those who deny the Holocaust with the best possible arguments" Jerusalem Post., 30 Sep 1989 (1.6 million) [It's obvious that Bauer was more concerned with the old figures being used by revisionist than he was for any accuracy. Anyway we can see he had gotten the new revised figure by 1989.] Bauer, Yehuda. "Foreword", in Muller', Filip. Eyewitness Auschwitz. New York: Stein and Day, 1979, xi. (said exact figure unknown, but estimated 3.5 million.) Billig, Joseph. Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du Reich hitlerien. Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973. pp 101-102. (2 million) Dawidowicz, Lucy. The War Against the Jews. New York: Bantam Books, 1979, p 191. (1.1 million) Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974. p 855. (1 to 2.5 million) Friedman, Filip. This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp. Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich. London: The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. (from four to five million.) Gilbert, Martin. Atlas of the Holocaust. New York: Pergamon Press, 1988. (Total Polish dead at 3 million.) Hilberg, Raul. The Destruction of the European Jews. Chicago: Quadrangle Books, 1961, 572. (1 million) Hoss, Rudolf. Death Dealer: The Memoirs of the SS Kommandant of Auschwitz. ed. by Steven J. Palusky, transl. by Andrew Pollinger. Buffalo: Prometheus Books, 1992, p 391 (1,130,000 total.) Kamenetksy, Ihor. Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe. New Haven: College and University Press, 1961. p174 (About 2.5 milion) Kogon, Eugene. Der SS Staat. Berlin, 1974, 157. (3.5 to 4.5 million.) Piper, Franciszek. "The Number of Victims" in Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. Washington D.C and Bloomington: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and Indiana University Press, 1994. Chapter Four. (1.1 million) Polaikov, Leon. Harvest of Hate Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 1956, 202. (2.3 million) Reitlinger, Gerald. The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945. South Brunswick: T. Yoseloff, 1968, 500. (Between 800,000 and 900,000) Sweibocka, Teresa. Auschwitz: A History in Photographs. Bloomington and Warsaw: Indiana University Press and Ksiazka I Wiedza, 1993, 287-288. (1.1 to 1.5 million) Weiss, A. "Categories of Camps, Their character and Role in the Execution of the Final Solution of the Jewish Question," in The Nazi Concentration Camps, Jerusalem: Yad Veshem, 1984, 132. (1.2 to 2.5 million.) Wellers, Georges. "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au camp d'Auschwitz" Le Monde Juif, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, (1.6 million.) Appendix B: Studies from Poland, former East Germany, and former Czechoslovakia These generally cite the findings of the Soviet Commission (four million), the Supreme National Tribunal in Poland (2.8 to 4.0 million) or the testimony of Auschwitz Kommandant Rudolf Hoss. "Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz," in Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211. (2.5 to 4.0 million) Czech, D. "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte," in Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Konzentrationslagers. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42. (2.5 to 4 million) Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof. Resistance in the Nazi concentration camps, 1933-1945. Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982, 44. (2.5 - 4 million) Madajczyk, Czeslaw. Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce; okupacja Polski, 1939-1945. Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe, 1970, 293-94. (2.8 to 4 million) Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator encyklopedyczny. Warsaw: Panst. Wydaw. Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369. (2.5 to 4 million.) The Nizkor Project webmaster@nizkor.org ======================================================================== If we should recall the first lines on the URL page: "Deceit & Misrepresentation The Techniques of Holocaust Denial" What is obvious is that most of the those figures that are presented by Nizkor, to show that people never professed, alleged or claimed that more than a million or so Jews died at Auschwitz, were written from around 1980 and on. The Auschwitz museum started working on the revision around the same time. They arrived at the lower number in 1986. The lower figure wasn't officially released to the public until 1993 or so. Nizkor cites books mostly written after the revision. Nizkor carries a seperate listing for "Western" sources and one for Poland and Russia. This fits in with the common theme of blaming the initial number on them. Regardless, what Nizkor gives doesn't mean anything in lieu of the myriad of other examples that show the old figure at Auschwitz was part of the reckoning to arrive at the 6,000,000 figure. The 4,000,000 figure is one that could be found by thousands in media sources with plenty of them saying 3,000,000 of them were Jewish. How come no one would let them know about the gross exaggerations? If the Jewish number was always founded on the lower number currently cited, how did it come to be so oft cited as way more? Really, who is it that is pushy pushing the Holocaust story? It's not the Poles or Russians. The Holocaust is a Jewish story. From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:05 PST 1996 Article: 87896 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle" Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:55:12 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <32d3409f.15993610@199.0.216.204> References: <595u4s$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> Marty Kelley writes: >> On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, tom moran wrote: >> >> > >> > > Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style, >> > >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. >> > >> > The same goes for "McFee". >> >> Oooh, that's a new one, Mr. Moran--could you explain how you can tell what >> people's ethnic/religious backgrounds are by their writing style? This >> will no doubt be of great use to Science. >> >> ---------------------- >> Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) >> >> "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. >> When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." >> --Dom Helder Camara >> >> >>>>> >Rahter than go through all that, perhaps Mr. McFee and Mr. Gandhi shall answer >the question directly. Blackmore, you forgot to put the little "s around the names. It should read Mr."McFee" and Mr."Gandhi". From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:06 PST 1996 Article: 87977 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:48:18 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32c34857.1399818@199.0.216.204> References: <32bf0cf2.2566041@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > ># Six million Jews killed? ># ># If we could line up that many people in rows, toe to heal ># and ten across, the whole line would be about a hundred ># miles long. > >Sigh. Tommy, Stalin's regime is alleged to have killed more >than six million people. I guess you're trying to say, in your >own, very "special" way, that six million is such a large >number that it cannot be believed. Why don't you also deny >Stalin's atrocities, then? The Holocaust number is presented on a continuous basis in and on our medias. The details are being gone over. The details don't support the number. If and when any Soviet 6,000,000+ number comes to be a predominate topic in our press and is used for purposes of extortion, then maybe it will need some investigation. In the mean time, go out and take a spin. >-Danny Keren. > > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:07 PST 1996 Article: 87983 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Murder of Priests in Dachau Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:56:14 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <32c54bdc.2301137@199.0.216.204> References: <32c7ebd8.40832563@199.0.216.204> <59gkm9$sfi@news.enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >> Here we go again. > > In other words, l'il tommy is about to make an ass of himself again. > >> What, no rabbis? > > The reason for this compliation has previously been posted. Are you >telling us: > > 1. That you did not read it? > > 2. That you did not understand it? > > 3. That you just feel like making an ass of yourself again? > > Choose one. Okay I read it again, and I still couldn't find any reference to any rabbis. > --YFE > From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:07 PST 1996 Article: 88005 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Brought to you by a synagogue Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 16:04:59 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <32c5accf.3588854@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.55 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 The following is a post "'Tickle me Grosvenor' dolls" posted by "McVay", "Director" of Nizkor, the website run by a synagogue. ===================================================================== "Three mint condition "Tickle Me Grosvenor" dolls, just in time for Christmas. These ugly little toys show the selfsame fat little bigot featured in so many UseNet newsgroups. Tickle the ugly little doll's tummy, and thrill to the sounds of classic ignorance and bigotry: "I am intolerant of some subhuman types, ho ho ho!" "We are fed up paying hundreds of millions just for the parasites of Quebec, ho ho ho!" "Sounds like you are one of the Jewish faggots, dying of AIDS, ho ho ho!" "May you rot in pain for being the Jewish lying bastard you are, ho ho ho!" Yes, folks, no longer do you have to visit http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/grosvenor-william to hear these dulcet tones... now you can have them for a tickle.... Don't delay! These Tickle Me Grosvenor dolls can't last.... also great for swatting flies.... offers to $750.00 each, Singapore dollars." -- Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org -----------------------| Remember John Hron |-------------------------------------- http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/ From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Dec 24 08:26:08 PST 1996 Article: 88079 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: `Racism' in Australia Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:19:06 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <32c52ed6.36874832@199.0.216.204> References: <56cpto$cj9@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk> <32a7265a.11505015@news.demon.co.uk> <32ad0c6b.10517074@news.demon.co.uk> <32add30c.85919@pubnews.demon.co.uk> <32b2ef07.6607202@news.gte.net> <32bff3b5.647037@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >On 13 Dec 1996 12:40:11 -0500, karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. >Power) wrote: >> >>>redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland) writes: (See original post.) >Fergus McClelland There are also Christian scholar opinions that some of the Bible, "Proverbs", came from some Egyptian stuff predating the archeologically recognized date for Hebrews by a couple of thousand years. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:42 PST 1996 Article: 88240 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematoria used for MURDER????? Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:16:03 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <32c42e61.36758391@199.0.216.204> References: <01bbeffa$43e58b80$4fd0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 I knew as soon as I saw your post folk would be lining up to set you straight. We can take notice that it is exclusively aimed at your misunderstanding about the word "crematorium". Of course a crematorium is a crematorium, a place for incinerating people. Some how, and for some reason the word in Holocaust vernacular means the whole kit and kaboodle, from gassing to cremation. I would say the word became the term in order to avoid some other more menacing word or term. Perhaps it got started way back when they were identifying the buildings as the places of cremation and then someone said 'Hey, where are the gas chambers?'. Aside from your understandable misconception, under the circumstances, the other points you made still stand. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:43 PST 1996 Article: 88242 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!erix.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Jewish justice Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:14:01 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32c32e54.36745264@199.0.216.204> References: <32c3a781.2230559@199.0.216.204> <32bee25f.33383085@news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > It is more correct to say that he subborned perjury from 40 jews. >Of couse neither he nor they were ever prosecuted for their crimes. >It would incite anti-semitism to show what jews actually do. > > And people wonder where YFE gets his lying ways. Obviously he is a >member of the primitive tribe that tell any lie, commit any perjury, >to satisfy their blood lust against the innocent. Of course the >innocent has to be goy. They "forgive" the sonderkommandos because >they are fellow bloodlusting tribesmen. Giwer, ..... From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:44 PST 1996 Article: 88412 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 1945 fact, now non-fact, in fact - a lie. Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:31:33 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 40 Message-ID: <32c12c4e.245789@199.0.216.204> References: <32ca0ed6.7164417@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 This is the same testimony broken down into its components. "The second building [at Treblinka], three chambers boiler-room. steam boilers pipes chambers terracotta floors slippery victims strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected afterwards, women and children first ... driven into the death chambers ... rifle butts ... whipping ... kicking ... Many slipped and fell ... stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside ... After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over." ====================================================================== So what we have is an account given that has a number of component details. The "steam" aspect of the account is the key component that makes the account false, prima facie like. This in no way makes it an exception out of the rest of the account. We have to accept that if the steam component goes, then so do the "boilers", boiler-room", "pipes" and then the "slippery"/"floors", then the "chambers", and even the "second building". We have to recognize that all the rest of the account was false also, the "victims", the "woman and children first", "rifle butts", "whips" and "kicking". Every single word a lie. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:44 PST 1996 Article: 88417 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!205.252.116.190!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:11:29 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <32c534db.2434166@199.0.216.204> References: <19961222144400.JAA17962@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Good straight forward logic. >The ultimate truth is that if there was one shred of evidence that the >"Holocaust" actually happened, there wouldn't be an alt.revisionist >newsgroup. Meaning to say, if there was one shred, the story wouldn't be up for dispute. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:45 PST 1996 Article: 88420 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: WHAT I BELIEVE Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:15:50 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <32c636ee.2965400@199.0.216.204> References: <19961220023800.VAA26902@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961220023800.VAA26902@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32bfa1a8.733303@199.0.216.204> <59pn8o$tv8$10@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In message <32bfa1a8.733303@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) >writes: >:> > >:>>"The two are absolutely inseperable" [sic] -- in other words, >:>>to deny the gas chambers is to deny the Holocaust. >:>> >:>>True or false, Mr. Widmann? >:>> >:> >:>> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ >:> >:> Jamie, is that you? What has Hilary done with McVay? >How's the wife and kids and grandchildren, zeyde? >Gord McFee Why do you ask? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:46 PST 1996 Article: 88431 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!feeder.chicago.cic.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Declaration Of Deficiency Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:29:13 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: <32c7383a.3297037@199.0.216.204> References: <32c29d50.1898317@199.0.216.204> <32c108bd.11375375@news.srv.ualberta.ca><32c29d50.1898317@199.0.216.204> <32c108bd.11375375@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <32c1a221.854907@199.0.216.204> <59pn7k$tv8$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Moran: >:> The fact is, Holocaustic folk do 'respond' to my posts. It might >:>be in their own little way, and it may not have anything to do with >:>the material posted, it may be one out of ten, but the main reason >:>they don't respond to most is because they know that they will fall in >:>the cross fire and it will only lead to the topic being even more >:>clarified and expanded on. "McFee": >No Tom, the fact is that people don't respond to your claptrap because it is >so incredibly stupid and pointless. You never engage in debate in any >event--simply vomit out any antisemitic garbage that is fed you. You are >simply irrelevant. That is why no one responds to you. Thus we have Mr."McFee" responding, in his "own little way". How many other times in the last two weeks have you 'responded' in your own little way to one of Moran's posts? Is it 10, 15 times, what? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:47 PST 1996 Article: 88450 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: False witnesses? - No problem Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 15:02:49 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <32ca3ec8.4975161@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.49 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 When he first gave his eyewitness testimony for the general Holocaust story, years ago, Arnold Freedman swore he had seen this and that. This was his first false witness testimony. When he tried to get away with it a second time, as a witness for the prosecution, to find a man guilty, he fell apart when held accountable by persons not of his own choosing. 1/12/85 According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out of the chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr. Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of crematorium operation, and was forced to agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings. Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire testimony was based on what he had been told by others. A false witness is a false witness is a false witness, and by any other name, reeks just as putrid. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:47 PST 1996 Article: 88466 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Declaration Of Deficiency Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:31:00 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <32c83a40.3815969@199.0.216.204> References: <32c29d50.1898317@199.0.216.204> <32c108bd.11375375@news.srv.ualberta.ca><32c29d50.1898317@199.0.216.204> <32c108bd.11375375@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <32c1a221.854907@199.0.216.204> <59pn7k$tv8$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Moran: >:> The fact is, Holocaustic folk do 'respond' to my posts. It might >:>be in their own little way, and it may not have anything to do with >:>the material posted, it may be one out of ten, but the main reason >:>they don't respond to most is because they know that they will fall in >:>the cross fire and it will only lead to the topic being even more >:>clarified and expanded on. "McFee": >No Tom, the fact is that people don't respond to your claptrap because it is >so incredibly stupid and pointless. You never engage in debate in any >event--simply vomit out any antisemitic garbage that is fed you. You are >simply irrelevant. That is why no one responds to you. >Gord McFee Mr."McFee", how would anyone know what you say here is true or not? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:48 PST 1996 Article: 88481 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!feeder.chicago.cic.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Grabner Ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening' Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:02:46 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <32c430e7.1422996@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 > From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz: >[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The >Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255]. >-------------------------------------------------------------- >At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered >me to pour Zyklon B ....... > * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz This testimony shows to what extremes the takers of the 'confessions' had to resort to. Here we have a book keeper giving his 'confession'. As it goes, he says that he was called on becasue some of the others didn't show up for work. Now we must wonder why Grabner didn't call on one of the many SS and other Germans who over saw the camp of 100,000 instead of opting to have a book keeper help him. And what about Grabner himself? "Head of the Political Department". Idiotic. Thats Holocaust testimony for you. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 14:32:49 PST 1996 Article: 88505 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'There was no longer any escape' Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:35:55 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <32cc7286.18220984@199.0.216.204> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor >[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The >Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240] >------------------------------------------------------------- >Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed >smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to >get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were >Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of >the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e. >one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees >into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading >the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the >confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had >to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the >extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which >led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer >any escape. After being loaded in rail cars and shipped hundreds of miles, and after unloading at the "Treblinka" camp, and after entering into gates and behind barbed wire fences, and after having to undress, it was not until they started to go through the "Tube" when suddenly "there was no longer any escape". From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 20:35:38 PST 1996 Article: 88600 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!uunet!in1.uu.net!205.137.48.143!news1.agis.net!agis!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Jewishness is a "gift" Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:33:27 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <32ca5483.4515549@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Random House Dictionary "gift" - no.4, a special ability or capacity; a talent. This would be the application of what Leonard Nemoy speaks of in his go at bat under a continuously placed ad by the "The American Jewish Committee" - "What Being Jewish Means To Me". "Being Jewish is a gift, not a burden. I treasure that identity." Jews make up less than 3% of the American population, and yet they do the 100% of the crowing about how wonderful they are, right in the national medias. Leonard Nemoy is a ethnocentric racist. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 20:35:39 PST 1996 Article: 88605 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.94.215.18!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Eyewitness - I witness - I witnessed not Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:52:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: <32cb56d5.5109837@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 Other alternate titles for this could be, 'What happens when Holocaust authors and eyewitnesses are subjected to cross examination and are made to stand accountable.' and/or 'Why the Holocaust perpetuation league is so obsessed with stamping out open public discussion on the valididty of the Holocaust story.' Holocaust heavyweight Rudolf Vrba, under cross-examination in a Canadian courtroom, states under oath that 150,000 French Jews were gassed at Auschwitz, in spite of the fact that the entire number of Jews deported from France were only 75,721. Vrba claims he arrived at his count "scientifically" by having listened to the language spoken by the inmates at Auschwitz and examining their luggage (!). The author of "I Cannot Forgive" next confessed that his book was "an artistic picture ... not a document for a court," in spite of the fact that Vrba's testimony was crucial to both the War Refugee Board and the Auschwitz Trials in West Germany. Vrba further admitted that his written and pictorial descriptions of Auschwitz crematoria were a result of guessing, based on "what I heard it might look like." We can only imagine what would come about if all the Holocaust eyewitnesses were held to stand accountable. From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 20:35:40 PST 1996 Article: 88611 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Jewish justice Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:48:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <32c3a781.2230559@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.55 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 4/13/83: The Toronto Star recounts the story of Frank Walus, who was fingered by Simon Wiesenthal first as a Gestapo collaborator, then later as a member of the Gestapo. Twelve eyewitnesses swore Walus was a mass-murderer who had stomped a pregnant Jew to death. Forty eyewitnesses placed Walus at the concentration camp in Kielce, Poland, during the war. At the trial, however, it was established that Walus was never at the camp, never a member of the Gestapo, never a member of the SS, and that in fact all of Wiesenthal's charges against Walus were fabrications. This prompted the US Justice Department to drop all charges, issue an apology, and pay Walus $34,000 to help offset his legal fees. How evident the Jewish cohesion is when it comes to trying to advance a Jewish cause. Imagine, Simon Wiesenthal being able to muster up 40 false witnesses. With the current mass extortion scheme now being directed towards the Swiss in the form of claims they are holding Nazi gold and $$$$$, the Jewish cohesion has been able to muster up 3,000 claimants to the money. Is there any other ethnic faction in the world that would do this? From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 20:35:40 PST 1996 Article: 88614 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!pith.uoregon.edu!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Prof. Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:23:53 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 81 Message-ID: <32bd4413.308348@199.0.216.204> References: <32b7977d.407049@199.0.216.204> <32b94e74.541340@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes: > >## Mr.Keren, poster of this eyewitness testimony, could you expand >## on what this witness meant by, "When I asked him where the spinning >## materials came from, he told me proudly that they had come from the >## Jews". >## >## If one had an aerial photograph or eyewitness plan of this >## Belzec, could you explain where these spinning mills would have >been? >## >## The testimony also states Globocnik told him, "He also >mentioned >## that work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production". >## Now we haven't any other information on this spinning industry at this >## time, said to have taken place at Belzec but, "considerably >## outstrip(ing)" the German spinning industry seems quite awesome >and we >## should think there should be some kind of record of the Belzec >## industry being put together, machines, shipping whatever and records >## of distribution of the finished spinning product. Do you know if there >## is any record of this? > ># Mr.(Dr.)Keren? > >Well, Tommy, why don't you do something productive for a change, >and study this matter? You could start by writing the "Institute >for Contemporary History" in Munich, for instance. > >Why should I do your work for you, Tommy? > >BTW, I assume that the spinning mills were not at the death camp >itself, but in the town of Belzec. > >But, once again: if you're interested in this topic, why don't >you do some research yourself? > ># Mr.(Dr.)Keren? > >Is this "Mr.(Dr.)" thing supposed to insult me, Tommy? You're >60-years-old, right? Can you possibly start acting your age? > >Or is that old inferiority complex kicking into gear again, Tommy? Sorry. One of your friends suggested, "Doctor Keren to you zeyde" instead of the usual "Mr.Keren", and sometimes it's not really clear what your academic credentials may be. Anyway, you say go find out yourself? But aren't you interested in knowing what the witness meant by: "When I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly that they had come from the Jews". What do you think he was talking about? Just take a guess. Was it, hair? Theorizing on what other parts of the human body would be candidates for spinning would be just too gruesome to go through out here, and hair is the most likely as to what the witness Prof. P. was referring to. Could the hair taken from the victims be enough to supply a spinning industry that surpassed all of Germany's production? Is human hair good for spinning? Take some cotton out of a pill bottle, pull out a little wisp, roll it between your fingers, then pull out a little more and roll that, continue this and a thread is made. Now try this with human hair. It won't work. (Experiment not suggested for people with crew cuts.) Part of the genetic designated structure of human hair includes a component that adds to the design to not let it happen. The eyewitness testimony is a total fabrication. A joke. >-Danny Keren. > From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 21:12:27 PST 1996 Article: 88660 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Another synagogue sponsored whatever Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 23:48:31 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 101 Message-ID: <32cfbcf1.37272599@199.0.216.204> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.60 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: [a besotted loser had explored the limits of his vocabulary thus...] ># Wadda fuckin kike ethnic!!! ># Da widdle ethnic whines again. ># whadda fuckin' kike!!!! ># Da po widdle intimidated etnic posts again. What a lying ># kike, jew shyster. >Matt posts dozens of messages like these, every day. He copies >someone's article, adds a line or two like the ones above, and posts. >This is indeed "Holocaust revisionism" at its best. Matt is >truly a "leading revisionist scholar". One wonders what the judge will think, when Mr. Giwer explains his behavior under oath? Will he sputter "But you knew that, your honour!" when asked a question? Will he ask the magistrate if he is a "lying kike, jew shyster?" Will he ask the magistrate if he is a "widdle whining ethnic?" Will he ask the magistrate if he is a "fuckin' kike?" This this is the selfsame besotted, loudmouthed blowhard that tucked his tail firmly between his legs (there being little there to impede this process) and bravely fled when offered a golden opportunity to back up his mouth with his chequebook. That is, of course, because he isn't interested in discussing history - or anything else. He's akin to the small child, stomping his feet on the floor and demanding attention. And, as he's demonstrated in the past with his infantile behavior, he will say absolutely anything in order to provoke an argument - i.e., to get attention. Tiring of his endless stream of evasions, insults and outright lies, I offered him an opportunity to put his money where his mouth was, and demonstrate that he actually _believed_ the crap he serves up as his own pompous brand of historical "reality." I offered to let an independent forensics lab determine the issue, at, I might add, my expense if it should determine that this crude fellow was correct. What prompted his immediate "advance to the rear," of course, was the other side of the coin - that he would have to meet the cost, as a donation to the Nizkor Project, if his foolish contention turned out, as it must, to be completely, utterly worthless. At that point, hoisted firmly on his own petard, he ran like the cowardly bully he daily proves himself to be. For the details of my offer, I invite you to peruse http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html I further invite you, and anyone else among the estimated 70-Million internet users, to regularly and routinely remind this prevaricating failure of a man of his cowardice by providing references to the URL cited, and to the offer he so obviously dreads. This coward, Matt Giwer, is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond. For many here, no greater compliment can accrue than to be insulted by this contemptable husk of a man. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to URL http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/ URL http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/ URL http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html URL http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ URL http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/ Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power, an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings. -- Nizkor Canada | http://www.nizkor.org kmcvay@nizkor.org |--------------------------------------------- --------------------| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource Search Nizkor: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Dec 25 21:12:28 PST 1996 Article: 88666 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!pith.uoregon.edu!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: What's the matter with Moron? Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:32:10 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <32c14645.869572@199.0.216.204> References: <59iflb$p26$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.171.20.36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/16.299 >In message <32bc99f2.1036050@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom >moran)Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:05:15 GMT writes: >:> >:>>In message <32bd18c8.6496913@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom >:>>moran)Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:28:51 GMT writes: >:>>:> >:>>:> >:>>:>The Best of Nizkor; >:>> >:>>How's the wife and kids, zeyde? >:> >:> "McFee", since we have a documented history of being of opposite >:>veiws, and many examples of uptight reaction from yourself, I will ask >:>you right now, why do ask "How's the wife and kids?"? > >Does it bug you that much Tommie? Why do you ask? Is it supposed to? >Gord McFee >I'll write no line before its time > From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Dec 26 09:02:48 PST 1996 Article: 88713 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Irish Potato Famine Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:21:11 GMT Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet