Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: [Repost] Tom Moran: A Chronicle of Lies Summary: Marty Kelley chronicles a sampling of Tom Moran's lies and misrepresentations Reply-To: mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU As Mr. Moran seems to have difficulty substantiating his claims, it is clearly important to remind him of those which remain unproven. This file is maintained by the author, Marty Kelley, and will be published monthly to the net on an automated basis. The file will be updated by the author as often as Mr. Moran makes claims he cannot, or will not, substantiate. Archive/File: pub/people/m/moran.tom/morans-lies First-Published: 1996/01/15 Author: Marty KelleyOriginal Subject: To Err is Moran (Was: Tom Moran Recognizes his Errs!) Recently, Tom Moran has been asking participants in alt.revisionism to give him evidence that he he has ever lied. He professes to be shocked--SHOCKED! --that anyone might think that he is anything less that scrupulously truthful in his posts to this forum. To help Mr Moran out, I would like to re-post just a few of Mr. Moran's more notable departures from the truth. I post this list with three disclaimers: 1) It is not comprehensive. There is a high degree of probability that Mr. Moran has made other incorrect statements. I invite other participants in alt.revisionism to submit other examples of Mr. Moran's errs. 2) It is possible that Mr. Moran posted some of these incorrect statements out of simple ignorance, stupidity, or ineptitude in reading--i.e., without deliberate intent to mislead. While all of the Moranic statements listed here are indeed untrue, some of them may not therefore be "lies" in the strictest sense. 3) These summaries of Mr. Moran's inaccuracies are rather brief. If requested, I will happily re-post the entire articles in which his inaccuracies are discussed. Let us begin with a recap of the immortal Moranism that inspired the title of this thread: On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, tom moran wrote: > kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote: [snip] > >Which article on Nizkor claims there were 3.1 million German > >Jews, Mr. Moran? > > Okay, sorry. I take note of "Government general". > Tom Moran is capable of recognizing his errs. Any others? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I replied: Happy to oblige you, Mr. Moran. Here are a few: 1) "Errs" is a verb; "errors" is the noun you may have meant. 2) You mistakenly thought that the U.S. Supreme Court, in _Lynch v. Donelley_, called a nativity scene a "secular symbol." The Court did not. 3) You mistakenly claimed that Justice Harry Blackmun, in his decision on _Allegheny County v. ACLU_, implied that the menorah was a "secular symbol." Justice Blackmun did not. 4) You mistakenly claimed that the Supreme Court, in _Capitol Square v. Pinette_, held that the menorah was a "secular symbol." It did not. 5) You mistakenly claimed that, again in _Capitol Square v. Pinette_, the Court ruled that the menorah had "cultural significance beyond religion," when in fact, this assertion was made by the *losing* party in the case, the State of Ohio. The Court *rejected* that argument in its ruling in the case. 6) You have some decidedly odd ideas about how many trees can fit inside the territory of Israel. And that's just the first list. The following additional "errs" come from subsequent posts in the thread, and from posts Mr. Moran has made elsewhere. 7) In the post "Debby's specifications; her own words," Mr. Moran quoted a Nov. 8, 1993 letter to the _New York Times_ by Deborah Lipstadt badly out of context. Mr. Moran stated that Lipstadt's standard of proof was that "the tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof." However, while these words do appear in Lipstadt's letter, they do NOT, as Mr. Moran asserst, constitute Lipstadt's sole criterion for judging the historical facts of the Holocaust. In fact, the line Mr. Moran cited is a position to which Lipstadt objects: She introduces that line by attributing it to _critics_ of Jean Claude Pressac's book on Auschwitz, and she follows it with the following paragraphs: In the best of all possible worlds they would be right. The testimony of those who suffered as well as the corroboration of the perpetrators themselves would be the ultimate proof. But eventually the survivors will pass on and future generations will seek this documentation. Moreover, we live in a world where a small group of people, many of whom have an anti-Semitic and neo-fascist agenda, labor assiduously to convince future generations that the Holocaust was a hoax. Irrespective of their motives, their claims are utter nonsense. But as recent polls have shown, some people have been confused by them. They see the deniers as the "other side" of a debate. Mr. Pressac's book adds to the pre-existing mound of documentary evidence and testimony which describes how such a horror happened. (Source: _NY Times_, Nov 8, 1993, p. A-18) 8) [Submitted by Josh Klein on Sat Dec 16]: He claimed that Hilary Ostrov had written articles for both the _L_A_ Times and _The_New_York_Times_. 9) He claimed, in one of his earliest posts to alt.revisionism, that the movie _Schindler's List_ had "bombed" at the box office, when in fact it did very well in theaters and as a video release, in addition to winning Academy Awards for Best Picture and Best Director. Mr. Moran e-mailed me to insist again that _Schindler_ had in fact "bombed," and that despite the awards, very few people had actually gone to see the movie. He claimed that it had actually opened and closed in just a couple of weeks, then quietly disappeared. To follow up on his claims, I asked about _Schindler_ in rec.arts.cinema.past-films. I received several messages pointing out that _Schindler_ grossed over $110 million in 1994 alone (it was released in late 1993 in several cities); in the film business, any picture with sales over $100 million is usually considered a "blockbuster." Further, another person, citing _Variety_ magazine, wrote to say that _Schindler_ had the 13th-biggest box-office revenues of 1994. Those statistics are hardly consistent with Mr. Moran's assertion that the film was a "bomb." 10) Mr. Moran has falsely claimed that the Bloom Southwest Jewish Archives (at the University of Arizona) is dedicated to proving that Jews are superior to Catholics. Needless to say, no statement of the sort appears in the Bloom Archives' web pages; Mr. Moran just made that up. The website (whose URL I don't have handy at the moment) _does_ include an article about the Southwest's crypto-Jews, which Mr. Moran selectively and misleadingly quoted to give the impression that the Bloom Archives pursued an anti-Catholic agenda. He ignored several followup posts which pointed out that the Bloom Archives' website includes statements about the rich cultural diversity and commitment to religious freedom of the many peoples who settled the Southwest. 11) Mr. Moran has frequently misattributed postings from one writer to another. Most commonly, he has mistaken Danny Mittleman for me. In the most recent case of this "err" (Sat, 16 Dec 1995, in the thread "Zioexaggeration = 200,000,000"), Mr. Moran also falsely accused Danny of lying: Mr Moran wrote: > dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote: > > And, I have a great grandmother who was Jewish and Wintered in Tucson > > in the 1940s. Tom, thanks for showing me this archive. It may > > help me track down some information about where she lived and > > what she did in Tucson. > At one time you claimed to be Catholic and then you claimed to be a > Unitarian, and all the time I knew you were lying. I could see in your > writing. I replied that *I'm* the ex-Catholic Unitarian, and Danny pointed out that although he had a great-grandmother who was Jewish, he is himself an atheist. Mr. Moran did not reply to these corrections. 12) Mr. Moran has falsely accused his opponents of holding beliefs which they do not. In the past, he has falsely claimed that I wish to restrict all discussion of "Holocaust revisionism" to alt.revisionism. I do not believe that, and have never stated that I seek any such restriction. (Mr. Moran's assertion is doubly ridiculous in that it assumes that I have any power to enforce such a restriction!) Most recently, Mr. Moran has falsely claimed that Keith Morrison supports the criminal prosecution of Holocaust deniers for their beliefs. Despite repeated calls to produce evidence of this claim or to apologize for insulting Mr. Morrison, Mr. Moran has not responded. This is, I believe, only a partial list. I invite other alt.revisionism participants to post (and/or e-mail to me) other examples of Mr. Moran's many "errs". >>>Posted and E-mailed to Tom Moran and to the Nizkor webmasters. Followups to alt.revisionism, please. E-mailed replies to this message will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise requested by sender<<< ---------------------- Marty Kelley (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU) "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" --August Strindberg
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