Archive/File: people/h/hunt.bob hunt.0495

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Article: 23832 of alt.revisionism
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From: frenesi@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CYANIDE GASSINGS
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 95 19:04:41 -0500
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Sigh-anide. When will the gassing stop? I worked in an electroplating
hop and handled copper cyanide pellets, on a daily basis, with bare hands.
Once in a while, I would get small sores on my skin. In the 1860s, prussic acid
hydrocyanic acid) was used in aftershave lotions. You cannot kill any mammal
with any form of cyani
with cyanide in one minute. If one is a victim of cyanide poisoning and lives
for 20 minutes, he will not d
 not die. Every case I have heard of, including personal experience,
' w
In execution chambers, HCN is not vented directly into the air. It is blended
with
with ammonia gas first. Since 1936, the Germans had tons of SARIN and by 1939,
th
they had TABUN and SOMAN - deadly nerve gasses. If they really wanted
to gas jews, they wouldn't have used HCN, CO, or farts.


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Article: 23955 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 35,000 dead at DRESDEN?  What a cruel joke.
Date: 10 Apr 1995 19:00:09 -0400
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S Schwartz asks:

>How many were killed in Coventry?

Believe the figure was less than 300, but that's a very dim memory of
something read a long time ago.  The thing I do remember clearly is that
popular conception puts the figure much higher than it really was.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 23956 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heeeee's Baaaaack (was:Re: CYANIDE GASSINGS)
Date: 10 Apr 1995 19:00:19 -0400
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Rich Green asks:

>Weren't you also busy helping Mr. Black with his Cyanide FAQ?

No.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 23968 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: 35,000 dead at DRESDEN?  What a cruel joke.
In-Reply-To: dbtgthomas@aol.com's message of 10 Apr 1995 19:00:09 -0400
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
>>How many were killed in Coventry?
>
>Believe the figure was less than 300, but that's a very dim memory of
>something read a long time ago.  The thing I do remember clearly is that
>popular conception puts the figure much higher than it really was.

The issue at Coventry was not the number of people killed.

The issue was that the Nazis targetted and totally destroyed one of
the great Cathedrals of Europe, Coventry Cathedral. In sheer malice.

The Nazis also targetted, with somewhat less success, Canterbury
Cathedral and Westminster Abbey.

But Coventry was targetted and levelled.

That sort of viciousness was, to some degree, a new chapter in modern
warfare (it took aerial bombardment to effect such an impersonal and
spiteful act), and seen as basically senseless viciousness.

I don't know what it justifies, but let's not pretend to know
something about the subject and then dabble in irrelevancies.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 24018 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I had to see it with my own eyes.
Date: 12 Apr 1995 11:12:53 -0400
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Seeing may be believing, but it obviously has little to do with
comprehension.  The number of people I have observed in this discussion
group who come anywhere near to what you describe can be numbered on the
fingers of one hand with a couple of digits left over.

Weren't most of the accusers in the witch trials in this country female?

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 24074 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I had to see it with my own eyes
Date: 13 Apr 1995 13:35:36 -0400
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D. Keren writes:

>Most of the "revisionist" apes fit the description the lady
>posted quite well, and I have a very big quote file to prove
>it. Heck, I'll post it soon.

Please do, and read her post again first.  I'm curious to see some direct
indictation of these Fourth Reich types aside from baseless claims that
this is what's going on here.

>Ooooh, still having problems with girls, Hunt? 

Well, it's true that you and I have disagreed pretty steadily, but I
hadn't thought to analyze the reasons.  Perhaps you're on to something.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 24140 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I had to see it with my own eyes.
Date: 13 Apr 1995 18:51:29 -0400
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This reply is to the predictable as snow in Alaska group who responded to
the goading, and not to any individual.

My comments, particularly about women, were calculated to get a rise from,
or further arouse, as you will, a few of the already lathered up
stud-muffins here and they did just that.

The statement about the gender of the accusers in the witch trials is
true, too, and it was made to underscore the fact that this discussion
long ago degenerated into something that is fundamentally human and
elementally dirty.  A witch hunt.  A mob running a misfit to ground, with
all the fairness and discernment that mobs typically exhibit.

What we have here is not just a failure to communicate, god knows that's
true, but a verbal stoning party with group rationalized sanction to
enable participants to feel good about their transgressions against common
decency.  Several laughable explanations of the rightness if not
righteousness of boorish and worse behavior have been posted of late.  The
results of this collective gross attitude are to no one's credit and no
one's benefit.  Ends do not justify means.  If you truly care about
rebutting incorrect ideas and statements, then address them in civilized
discourse instead of indulging yourself in the darker side of your nature,
getting a little titillated thereby and it's oh so good and it's oh so
clean and hell no it's not it's cheap and it utterly reeks of purity.  Gag
me with righteous unction.

The post which started this thread is melodramatic, grossly exaggerated, a
little bigoted (in the officially approved manner of course), a lot
shallow, and perfectly in tune with the mood being cultivated here -
imaginatively, falsely, and near hysterically accusative.  Much ado about
very little.  Adds to self-importance, don't you know.

Demons arguably need to be brought to account (although not nearly so much
as they need to be properly identified) but in the light and in a reasoned
manner.  God keep us all from witch-hunters, whose methods inevitably
exceed the odiousness of that which they would eviscerate, and are
rationalized on those very grounds.  That it's OK to fight evil with evil
and hate with hate and that beyond a certain point any opposing action is
justified.  No it's not.  End of main point.

As for the comment, I think it was from Mr. Moral Leprosy, that, "..You
(I) still don't get it...", absolutely, positively, unequivocally right. 
I don't want to get what you've got, no time, no way, no how.  My soul has
enough problems without ingesting the essence of a Torquemada.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 24152 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: I had to see it with my own eyes.
In-Reply-To: dbtgthomas@aol.com's message of 13 Apr 1995 18:51:29 -0400
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 02:08:33 GMT
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This is all very nice but completely content-free, you could be
talking about anything at all and it would apply just as well.

So what was this about?


In article <3mk9th$c9b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) writes:

   Xref: world alt.revisionism:29018
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   From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
   Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
   Date: 13 Apr 1995 18:51:29 -0400
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   This reply is to the predictable as snow in Alaska group who responded to
   the goading, and not to any individual.

   My comments, particularly about women, were calculated to get a rise from,
   or further arouse, as you will, a few of the already lathered up
   stud-muffins here and they did just that.

   The statement about the gender of the accusers in the witch trials is
   true, too, and it was made to underscore the fact that this discussion
   long ago degenerated into something that is fundamentally human and
   elementally dirty.  A witch hunt.  A mob running a misfit to ground, with
   all the fairness and discernment that mobs typically exhibit.

   What we have here is not just a failure to communicate, god knows that's
   true, but a verbal stoning party with group rationalized sanction to
   enable participants to feel good about their transgressions against common
   decency.  Several laughable explanations of the rightness if not
   righteousness of boorish and worse behavior have been posted of late.  The
   results of this collective gross attitude are to no one's credit and no
   one's benefit.  Ends do not justify means.  If you truly care about
   rebutting incorrect ideas and statements, then address them in civilized
   discourse instead of indulging yourself in the darker side of your nature,
   getting a little titillated thereby and it's oh so good and it's oh so
   clean and hell no it's not it's cheap and it utterly reeks of purity.  Gag
   me with righteous unction.

   The post which started this thread is melodramatic, grossly exaggerated, a
   little bigoted (in the officially approved manner of course), a lot
   shallow, and perfectly in tune with the mood being cultivated here -
   imaginatively, falsely, and near hysterically accusative.  Much ado about
   very little.  Adds to self-importance, don't you know.

   Demons arguably need to be brought to account (although not nearly so much
   as they need to be properly identified) but in the light and in a reasoned
   manner.  God keep us all from witch-hunters, whose methods inevitably
   exceed the odiousness of that which they would eviscerate, and are
   rationalized on those very grounds.  That it's OK to fight evil with evil
   and hate with hate and that beyond a certain point any opposing action is
   justified.  No it's not.  End of main point.

   As for the comment, I think it was from Mr. Moral Leprosy, that, "..You
   (I) still don't get it...", absolutely, positively, unequivocally right. 
   I don't want to get what you've got, no time, no way, no how.  My soul has
   enough problems without ingesting the essence of a Torquemada.

   -----------------------------------------------------------

   "For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
   love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5
-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 24894 of alt.revisionism
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Thomas Jefferson Knew the Score
Date: 28 Apr 1995 16:55:13 -0400
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>But, Jefferson does not say that it is a "right" for anyone who thinks 
>that "the People" have been brainwashed to preempt them and take matters 
>into his own hands.  Nor does any minority have such a right, according 
>to Jefferson.
>
>
 >let every man, woman and child know this.
>
>By all means, as long as Jefferson's words and ideas are not distorted.

Jefferson didn't specify or mean a majority.  Those who effected our
revolution were not a majority of the population.  My opinion, to join the
other opinions passing as pronouncements of the One Truth, is that "the
People" meant those whom Jefferson considered capable of intelligent
decision making.  Given the times, this probably translates to property
owners.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by
love-this is the eternal law." - The Pali Canon 1:5


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Article: 24901 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Thomas Jefferson Knew the Score
In-Reply-To: dbtgthomas@aol.com's message of 28 Apr 1995 16:55:13 -0400
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From: dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas)
>Jefferson didn't specify or mean a majority.  Those who effected our
>revolution were not a majority of the population.  My opinion, to join the
>other opinions passing as pronouncements of the One Truth, is that "the
>People" meant those whom Jefferson considered capable of intelligent
>decision making.  Given the times, this probably translates to property
>owners.

Histories I've read generally estimate about 10% popular support or
less for violent revolutions, and attribute about this amount of
support to the American Revolution.

The important ingredient is, generally, complacency or sympathy on the
part of the rest. That is, will they lay down their lives etc to
*stop* a revolution? What about those whose job it is to stop the
violence (eg, police, army, etc.) That's what makes a violent
revolution go, those who might've stopped it being demoralized enough
with the current system (not necessarily supporting the revolution)
that they just go home and ignore the whole thing as much as possible.

I doubt Jefferson had any delusions that the majority supported their
revolution before they won, few do.

However, people conflate a lot of the comments made by Jefferson et
al, confusing what they did prior to 1776 and why, and what they
believed they laid down later. The important thing to them,
ultimately, was the process, is there an effective process to redress
grievances? That was what led them to their revolution, they were
certain there was no other route, no process, to get things fixed.

That's not the same as having a system with a reasonable process for
redress of grievance and just feeling like one's opinions are being
rejected. Unfortunately the latter seems to be all that a lot of those
waving around Jefferson et al are complaining about; they've had every
reasonable opportunity to be heard, have been heard, and in many cases
had their faces laughed in, so in their failure they have fantasies
that they're not being treated fairly (and their favorite theme, grand
conspiracies preventing their opinions from being adopted, the
constitution "supporting" their point of view absolutely and above all
possible voting, etc.)

That's not true nor rational, and such people should never succeed,
they're just infantile tyrants.

The issue is not so much whether one's views are being accepted or
adopted, no matter how great one thinks they are, the issue is whether
or not one's views have been given fair hearing, does process exist?

One example of where this was perceived to have broken down was over
the Vietnam war. There was a deep feeling among a lot of people that
because, even after nearly a decade of intense involvement, an
involuntary draft, tens of thousands of young lives lost, and billions
being spent, Congress had never voted one way or the other as to
whether the nation was at war other than the 1964 Gulf of Tonkein
Resolution which was more of an emergency measure and not very
convincing as an act of war. I suppose continuing to fund it, they did
have budgetary powers, was a form of condoning it. But the whole thing
seemed, at a fundamental level, surreal and broken. Why wouldn't
Congress, in almost a decade, just debate it and vote on whether or
not the US was at war with Vietnam? They never did, it seemed
staggering to many of us at the time. Like something very, very basic
had disappeared, the careful review and consideration in public forum
over whether or not to go to war, to destroy other countries, to send
hundreds of thousands of conscripts overseas, etc.

As far as I can tell a lot of these folks on the right trying to use
the words of Jefferson et al to justify something or other have, as
their complaints, something so vague as to be difficult to put one's
finger on. They seem to amount to having lost various votes in the
Congress they wish had gone the other way (eg, taxes, social welfare
policies, etc) they've somehow managed to convince themselves they've
lost their right to redress. Bullshit, with a few possible exceptions
they lost on votes, and they don't like that. Oh.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD

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