From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Jun  7 19:40:01 PDT 1996
Article: 41680 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: So much for eyewitnesses.
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 21:49:30 -0700
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In article <31aef514.2382701@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

Yet again, Moran graces us for the FOURTH time, in true denier fashion,
with another repost exampling his duplicity in selective quoting and the
intentional distortion of what was actually written to mislead the unwary:

> According to Franciszek Piper, curator of the Auschwitz Museum
> in Poland, prisoner and SS eyewitness testimony is unreliable.

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper actually stated that
"[because of the difficulty these prisoners had in gaining access to
information and the inevitable distortions that occurred when the data
were analyzed and transmitted, these reports are marred by serious errors,
discrepancies, and contradictions" and that "[d]espite the considerable
accuracy in certain details, the figures quoted by resistance sources must
be considered cautiously because they lacked access to aggregate figures."
(_Anatomy_,p.66,63.) 

What this means is that such testimonies are not to be wholly discarded,
as Moran would have us believe, because they were unreliable; but that the
limitations of such testimonies and estimates, due to the circumstances,
must be "considered cautiously" because, as Dr. Piper also states, such
testimonies had "considerable accuracy in some details." 

> In his "Number of Victims", Chapter 4 in "The Anatomy of the
> Auschwitz Death Camp", he covers the course of events and
> considerations involved in arriving at the revised Auschwitz figures. 
>
> It seems the revisers held little esteem for any eyewitness
> testimony, at least in regard to numbers, be it prisoner or SS
> functionary, discounting it all in favor of deportation records from
> various countries.

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that "...it
is the testimony of Rudolf Ho"ss, Auschwitz's commandant from 1940 through
1943, that draws special attention of scholars. Ho"ss is considered a
credible witness because he also supervised camp affairs for the SS
Economic-Administrative Main Office in 1944. Furthermore, he returned to
Auschwitz briefly to oversee the extermination of Hungarian Jews.... His
most important testimonies were at the Kaltenbrunner trial before the
International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg and later, after he was
extradited to Poland, before the Polish authorities. 

"On April 15, 1946, Ho"ss's certified testimony was read during the
Kaltenbrunner trial. 'According to my calculation,' he stated, 'at least
2.5 million people were put to death, gassed, and subsequently burned
there; in addition, 500,000 people died of exhaustion and illness, which
gives a total of three million victims. That figure constitutes 70 to 80
percent of all Auschwitz prisoners...' Later, in a conversation with
psychiatrists G.M. Gilbert in Nuremburg and in testimonies given in
Poland, Ho"ss repudiated these figures, claiming he had received them from
Adolf Eichmann, who had been head of the SS Office of Jewish Emigration. A
more accurate estimate, he reported, was 1.13 million, based on his
recollection of the extermination of Jews from particular countries. The
figure is almost identical to the number of Jews deported to Auschwitz, as
established by this author..." 

"Since the Ho"ss testimonies, researchers have accepted figures from Ho"ss
that ranged from one to three million--depending on how reliable they
consider his testimonies to be. It is unclear from Ho"ss's Nuremburg
testimony whether the number he gave for those killed in the camp pertains
to the period of time of his tenure as camp commander or the camp's entire
existence. As a result, some scholars add to Ho'ss's figure the number of
victims during 1944, mainly the 438,000 Hungarian Jews deported to
Auschwitz that year." (_Anatomy_,pp.64-65.)

> In respect to the numbers, Piper referring to the deportation
> records states, "Before these records were discovered, researchers had
> to rely on discrepant and impercise data from testimonies and
> depositions from witnesses, former prisoners, and Nazi functionaries
> and on court decisions and fragmentary and incomplete records of camp
> registries, archives, and other institutions".

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
"[d]espite the accuracy in certain details, the figures quoted by the
resistance sources must be considered cautiously because they lacked
access to aggregate figures. Similar objections may be raised regarding
figures quoted by prisoners not affiliated with any underground
organizations in the camp. Even prisoners employed as scribes in camp
offices had access to a limited number of records. For the most part,
these records pertained to registered prisoners, not to the mass
transports so critical to estimating the number of deportees and victims.
The figures quoted by individual prisoners rely mostly on numbers of
autopsies and on information overheard from SS men or other prisoners. The
most significant fact in the prisoners' reports and communications is that
mass extermination continued incessantly." (_Anatomy_,p.63.) 

> Here Piper even includes "court decisions" as part of that
> which is held in low esteem.

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper only specifically
mentions the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission (1945), The Polish
Commission (1945 and 1946), and the Supreme National Polish Tribunal in
Poland (1947) as making definitive conclusions as to the death toll at
Auschwitz. The inaccuracy of the estimates for the number of people
murdered at Auschwitz by these agencies has been well documented and known
by historians for decades. Just as significantly, Dr. Piper stated that
the "International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg did not address the
question of how many persons were killed at Auschwitz."

> He goes on to say the testimonies held "inevitable distortions
> and were "marred by serious errors, discrepancies, and
> contradictions".

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
"[d]espite the considerable accuracy in certain details, the figures
quoted by resistance sources must be considered cautiously because they
lacked access to aggregate figures." (_Anatomy_,p.66,63.) 

Again, what this means is that such testimonies are not to be wholly
discarded, as Moran would have us believe, because they were unreliable;
but that the limitations of such testimonies and estimates, due to the
circumstances, must be "considered cautiously" because, as Dr. Piper also
states, such testimonies had "considerable accuracy in some details." 

> Among the few examples Piper identifies as perpetrating the
> questionable testimony is the number one star witness for the
> Holocaust story, Rudolph Ho'ss. 

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
"...Ho"ss is considered a credible witness because he also supervised camp
affairs for the SS Economic-Administrative Main Office in 1944.
Furthermore, he returned to Auschwitz briefly to oversee the extermination
of Hungarian Jews..." and that Ho"ss repudiated his earlier estimate of
those killed at Auschwitz because he "received them from Adolf Eichmann,
who had been head of the SS Office of Jewish Emigration" and then offered
"a more accurate estimate... [of] 1.13 million, based on his recollection
of the extermination of Jews from particular countries." This estimate,
according to Dr. Piper, is "almost identical to the number of Jews
deported to Auschwitz" he established himself.  

> Under a bold heading "Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and Tribunals" 
> Piper does a quick run down on the erroneous findings of these bodies
and even 
> does similar comment under "Scholarly Publications".

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that these
bodies were the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission (1945), The Polish
Commission (1945 and 1946), and the Supreme National Polish Tribunal in
Poland (1947). The estimates from these bodies have discounted by
historians almost immediately after they were made. 

> Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt
> historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the
> scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes."

Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that "[in]
_The Final Solution_, one of the first books to deal with the Holocaust,
published in 1953, the figure of four million was radically reevaluated.
English historian Gerald Reitlinger estimated the number of victims of
Auschwitz to be roughly 800,000 to 900,000, based on an analysis of the
losses of Jews reported by specific countries as well as by his study of
extermination records. Since then, other estimates lower than the figures
quoted by the Soviet and Polish commissions have been advanced, especially
in Western publications. These estimates have ranged upwards from one
million." (_Anatomy_,p.61.) 

Obviously, Moran has failed to include much of what Dr. Piper actually
wrote because if he had his pathetic attempts of deception would have been
readily exposed for what it is: blatant distortion, lying by omission, and
the willful misrepresentation of Dr. Piper's work in an effort to further
his psychopathic need to smear the Holocaust and its victims. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
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