Archive/File: holocaust/usa/ihr raven.0694 Last-Modified: 1994/09/07 From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!pipex!warwick!uknet!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!kaiwan.com!DialupNewsWatcher!user Sun Jun 5 19:27:16 PDT 1994 Article: 12433 of alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!pipex!warwick!uknet!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!kaiwan.com!DialupNewsWatcher!user From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: One question to revisionists Followup-To: alt.revisionism Date: Sun, 05 Jun 1994 08:36:15 -0800 Organization: Institute for Historical Review Lines: 18 Message-ID:References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan.kaiwan.com In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) wrote: > The question is: > > If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the > WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered > to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate > all Jews in Europe? > > Answer only this one question. I have many more waiting. > The short answer is, "no." -- Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail Sun Jun 5 23:06:04 PDT 1994 Article: 12439 of alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: One question to revisionists Date: 6 Jun 1994 01:21:09 +0300 Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland Lines: 41 Message-ID: <2stj4l$nur@mits.mdata.fi> References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi X-ORIGINAL-NEWSGROUPS: alt.revisionism In article , Greg Raven wrote: >In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari >Nenonen) wrote: > >> The question is: >> >> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the >> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered >> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate >> all Jews in Europe? >> >> Answer only this one question. I have many more waiting. >> > >The short answer is, "no." > That's what I expected. You are beyound any rational reasoning. It's been shown here so many times already. So why should I bother? Not for you anyhow. You don't want to know the truth because it would ruin your ideals. Or you know it, but you want to distort it to serve your purposes. Holocaust revisionism is nazism in a very transparent disguise. The Finnish Field Marshal Mannerheim said only one word to his nearest general after he had discussed privately with Himmler: "Disgusting!" I think it's about all that any decent human being can still say to any of you revisionists. -- kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi Look for your other half Kari Nenonen who walks always next to you Maavallintie 4, and tends to be who you aren't 00430 Helsinki FINLAND Antonio Machado From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail Mon Jun 6 12:10:54 PDT 1994 Article: 12442 of alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: One question to revisionists Date: 6 Jun 1994 00:02:13 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net> References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: access3.digex.net In article , Greg Raven wrote: >In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari >Nenonen) wrote: > >> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the >> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered >> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate >> all Jews in Europe? > >The short answer is, "no." The question I would like to have answered is, what then is your alternative explanation for why Himmler would make such a request? -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail Tue Jun 7 01:02:13 PDT 1994 Article: 12446 of alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: One question to revisionists Date: 6 Jun 1994 18:12:57 +0300 Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland Lines: 60 Message-ID: <2svedp$4gs@mits.mdata.fi> References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi In article <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net>, Michael P. Stein wrote: >In article , >Greg Raven wrote: >>In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari >>Nenonen) wrote: >> >>> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the >>> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered >>> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate >>> all Jews in Europe? >> >>The short answer is, "no." > > The question I would like to have answered is, what then is your >alternative explanation for why Himmler would make such a request? Exactly. Colonel Kalle Lehmus, the head of the Finnish military intelligence service during WWII, tells in his memoirs "Tuntematon Mannerheim" ("Unknown Mannerheim"), 1967, about the visit of Himmler: "During his arriving day served lunch it however happened, that a couple of Finns managed to persuade the SS-man who had been left to Himmler's hotel room to guard his masters suitcase, to the hotel bar in the name of the brotherhood of arms for a little time to have a wellcome grog, and during that time the main contest of the suitcase was managed to photograf. It wasn't about alleged SS-operations in Lappland after all, but about the arragements of the Jewish question in the part of Finland. In that suitcase - with which Himmler said not to part even when at sleep - existing papers it occured, that in the 20 th of January, 1942 there had been a high level conference at the suggestion of Himmler in Reinhard Heydrich's villa at Wannsee, Berlin, and that in that conference had been definitely agreed about the final resolvement ('endg~ltige L|sung) of the question of the European Jews byt starting large-scale physical extermenation." Colonel Lehmus tells, that among other papers in that suitcase, was the name list of every Finnish Jew. The news was immediately brought to Mannerheim and the prime minister of Finland, who thus got some time to prepare themselves to answer Himmler's claims. Finland's attitude was quite clear from the beginning. "Only over my dead body" said Mannerheim (the commander of Finnish army) to the ministers. The Finnish prime minister Rangell was heard about this right after the war by the control commission of the allies. Rangell said that SS- Reichsfuhrer Heidrich Himmler had in some occasion said that he wanted to discuss about the Finnish Jewish question and he (Rangell) had answered that there is no Jewish question in Finland. End of that discussion. Excuse my less than perfect translation. The facts are there only the language could be better. -- kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi Look for your other half Kari Nenonen who walks always next to you Maavallintie 4, and tends to be who you aren't 00430 Helsinki FINLAND Antonio Machado From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!rat!zimmer!news Wed Jun 8 01:16:50 PDT 1994 Article: 211 of soc.culture.jewish.holocaust Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!rat!zimmer!news From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) Subject: Re: nuremberg Message-ID: Originator: rhorowit@mondrian.CSUFresno.EDU Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: mondrian.csufresno.edu Title: Re: nuremberg Organization: California State University, Fresno Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 02:41:00 GMT Approved: dpaldric@gibbs.oit.unc.edu Lines: 32 In article , levy@faure.ilog.fr (Bruno Levy) wrote: > I am looking for pointers to some reference and good books > on the nuremberg trial. > It seems difficult to find any information on this subject. > > Also, I would be interested to have your opinion on what are the most > important lesson and fact that are associated with this event. > I believe that it is the first trial where someone was prosecuted for > 'crime against humanity'. Am I right ? > Also any pointers to the history of the legal concept of crime against humanity > would be appreciated. > I would appreciate that people answer to the net and also cc me. One of the most important things to remember about Nuremberg was that it was a trial of the vanquished by the victors. Another interesting point is that many of the crimes for which the accused were prosecuted were ex post facto, that is, created after the "crime" itself. For the background on these and similar trials, Telford Taylor (who was a participant at the original trials) covers this in his latest book about Nuremberg, the title of which escapes me at the moment. You may or may not agree with what Taylor says, but it is interesting to see what he has to say for himself after nearly fifty years of attempting to justify his actions. -- Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
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