Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news.gmi.edu!msunews!uwm.edu!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!nntp-hub.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.42 From: Annie AlpertNewsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust redefined WAS Re: Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:40:03 -0500 Organization: Freelance Soccer Mom Lines: 98 Message-ID: <32889A53.2C29@ccnis.net> References: <199611112031.PAA12560@vixa.voyager.net> <3287CA0E.6A59@kaiwan.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.20.179.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Greg Raven wrote: > > Jamie McCarthy wrote: > > You say (1) "6 million ... is an irresponsible exaggeration," (2) "no > > Nazi plan," and (3) "no Nazi gas chambers." You're being quite > > consistent, since you explained your views in almost exactly the same > > words on your first big entrance to the Internet, on Hitler's birthday, > > 1994. > > It never fails to amaze me to learn how closely people of your sexual > preference keep track of Hitler's birthday. I have no record of my first > day on the Internet, and I couldn't care less about Hitler's birthday. > Well! That's novel, even for YOU, Greg! What do ou know about Jamie's 'sexual preference' and what does that have to do with his noticing that you happened to begin posting on Hitler's birthday (if indeed you did, which I have not verified)? I await you answer with bated breath . . . > > The problem, Mr. Raven, is that you also define the term Holocaust as > > (1) "the murder of six million Jews," (2) "as a central act of state by > > the Nazis," (3) "many in gas chambers." > > (snip) > > I do? If you were paying as much attention to what I actually say and > write on this subject as you do to Hitler's birthday, you would have > long ago discovered that this is NOT my definition of "the Holocaust." I > direct your attention to the following URL: > > http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/misc/definition.html I read your essay, but found it strangely unsatisfying. The bulk of the writing consisted of a collection of 'definitions' of the term "Holocaust"--not particulalry enlightening. You then wrote: BEGIN Finally, the door must be left open to consider the role of Jewish and Zionist leaders. Whether or not they were well-intentioned, actions by the Judenrat, Jewish kapos, and pro-Nazi Zionists that resulted in Jewish deaths must be studied and criticized, just as actions by these groups and others are praised when they resulted in the saving of Jewish lives. END The essential offensiveness of your 'blame the Jews" message is lost on you, I fear, so I won't dwell on it here--Suffice it to say, if the Third Reich had not attacked, Jews would not have had to respond. BEGIN Left undefined, but to be determined by examining the facts within the framework above, is the "why" of the Holocaust. A proposed definition According to the OED, revision is, "The action of revising or looking over again; esp. critical or careful examination or perusal with a view to correcting or improving." Revisionism is defined as, "A term used for a revised attitude to some previously accepted political situation, doctrine, or point of view." A revisionist, then, would be someone who approaches the Holocaust by looking at the facts, putting them in context, and arriving at the "why." An anti-revisionist would be someone who has fixed ideas about why the Holocaust happened, and then finds facts to support that conclusion, usually at the expense of context. Taking into account everything above, I would propose that the term "Holocaust" be defined as: "The mistreatment of Jewish civilians, primarily in Europe, at the hands of the combatants during the Second World War (1939-1945)." END Your 'definition' is so incomplete as to be incomprehensible, Greg. Mistreatment? Primarily in Europe? Combatants? Not even a nice try, Greg. Your long, verbose essay leads up to THIS? Honestly! What a waste. Instead of 'mistreatment' try: the murder of millions of innocent men, woman and children who were--or were thought to be--Jewish or members of other 'unacceptable' ethnic, social and political groups." Instead of "primarily in Europe" try: "Europe and Western Asia". Instead of "combatants" try: "Nazi Third Reich military forces, collaborators and civilians." Which leaves us with: "The murder of millions of innocent men, woman and children who were--or were thought to be--Jewish or members of other 'unacceptable' ethnic, social and political groups primarily in Europe and Western Asia at the hands of the Nazi Third Reich military forces, collaborators and civilians during the Second World War (1939-1945)." > -- Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi? European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/ And be sure to check out: http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad
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