Article 21616 of alt.revisionism:
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Human soap
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 22:26:49 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 19
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There seems to be some confusion on the topic of whether or not the Nazis
made soap from human corpses. There is really no mystery to it. There were
any number of "soap" rumors floating around, but at no time has anyone
produced any actual "Nazi" soap made from human remains. This is very well
covered in Mark Weber's article on this topic, which I will post again.

Virtually every substantive question about this topic is answered in this
article. Heck, even Deborah Lipstadt has acknowledged that the "soap"
story is a myth.

-- 
Greg Raven
mailto:greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
-----------------------------------------------------
For free information about the IHR, write to:
IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659
Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year)
The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping

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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Weber's "Human Soap" article
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 22:27:52 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 297
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

"Jewish Soap"

by Mark Weber

One of the most lurid and slanderous Holocaust claims is the story that
the Germans manufactured soap from the bodies of their victims. Although a
similar charge during the First World War was exposed as a hoax almost
immediately afterwards, it was nevertheless revived and widely believed
during the Second. More important, this accusation was "proved" at the
main Nuremberg trial of 1945-1946, and has been authoritatively endorsed
by numerous historians in the decades since. In recent years, though, as
part of a broad retreat from the most obviously untenable aspects of the
"orthodox" extermination story, Holocaust historians have grudgingly
conceded that the human soap tale is a wartime propaganda lie. In their
retreat, though, these historians have tried to dismiss the soap story as
a mere wartime "rumor," neglecting to mention that international Jewish
organizations and then Allied governments endorsed and sanctioned this
libelous canard.

Wartime rumors that the Germans were manufacturing soap from the corpses
of slaughtered Jews were based in part on the fact that soap bars
distributed by German authorities in Jewish ghettos and camps bore the
impressed initials "RIF," which many took to stand for "Rein juedisches
Fett" or "Pure Jewish Fat." (It did not seem to matter that the letters
were "RIF" and not "RJF.") These rumors spread so widely in 1941 and 1942
that by late 1942 German authorities in Poland and Slovakia were
expressing official concern about their impact.

According to a Polish source quoted in a secret wartime U.S. Army military
intelligence report, for example, the Germans were operating a "human soap
factory" in 1941 at Turek, Poland. "The Germans had brought thousands of
Polish teachers, priests and Jews there and after extracting the blood
serum from their bodies, had thrown them on large pots and melted off
grease to make soap," the intelligence report added.

Macabre "Jewish soap" jokes became popular in the ghettos and camps, and
many non-Jews on the outside came to believe the story. When trains loaded
with Jewish deportees stopped temporarily at rail stations, Poles
reportedly would gleefully shout at them: "Jews to soap!" Even British
prisoners of war interned at Auschwitz in 1944 testified later about the
wartime rumors that corpses of gassing victims were being turned into soap
there.

In spite of its inherently incredible character, the soap story became an
important feature of Jewish and Allied war propaganda. Rabbi Stephen S.
Wise, wartime head of both the World Jewish Congress and the American
Jewish Congress, publicly charged in November 1942 that Jewish corpses
were being "processed into such war-vital commodities as soap, fats and
fertilizer" by the Germans. He further announced that the Germans were
"even exhuming the dead for the value of the corpses," and were paying
fifty marks for each body.

In late 1942, the Congress Weekly, published by the American Jewish
Congress, editorialized that the Germans were turning Jews "by scientific
methods of dissolution into fertilizer, soap and glue." An article in the
same issue reported that Jewish deportees from France and Holland were
being processed into "soap, glue and train oil" in at least two special
factories in Germany. Typical of many other American periodicals, the
influential New Republic reported in early 1943 that the Germans were
"using the bodies of their Jewish victims to make soap and fertilizer in a
factory at Siedlce."

During June and July 1943, two prominent representatives of the
Moscow-based "Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee" toured the United States and
raised more than two million dollars for the Soviet war effort at a series
of mass meetings. At each of these rallies, Soviet Jewish leader Solomon
Mikhoels showed the crowd a bar of soap that he said was made from Jewish
corpses.

After the war the soap story was given important legitimacy at the main
Nuremberg trial. L. N. Smirnov, Chief Counsellor of Justice for the USSR,
declared to the Tribunal:

... The same base, rationalized SS technical minds which created gas
chambers and murder vans, began devising such methods of complete
annihilation of human bodies, which would not only conceal the traces of
their crimes, but also to serve in the manufacturing of certain products.
In the Danzig Anatomical Institute, semi-industrial experiments in the
production of soap from human bodies and the tanning of human skin for
industrial purposes were carried out.

Smirnov quoted at length from an affidavit by Sigmund Mazur, an Institute
employee, which was accepted as Nuremberg exhibit USSR-197. It alleged
that Dr. Rudolf Spanner, the head of the Danzig Institute, had ordered the
production of soap from corpses in 1943. According to Mazur's affidavit,
Dr. Spanner's operation was of interest to high-ranking German officials.
Education Minister Bernhard Rust and Health Leader Dr. Leonardo Conti, as
well as professors from other medical institutes, came to witness
Spanner's efforts. Mazur also claimed to have used the "human soap" to
wash himself and his laundry.

A human soap "recipe," allegedly prepared by Dr. Spanner (Nuremberg
document USSR-196), was also presented. Finally, a sample of what was
supposed to be a piece of "human soap" was submitted to the Nuremberg
Tribunal as exhibit USSR-393.

In his closing address to the Tribunal, chief British prosecutor Sir
Hartley Shawcross echoed his Soviet colleague: "On occasion, even the
bodies of their victims were used to make good the wartime shortage of
soap." And in their final judgment, the Nuremberg Tribunal judges found
that "attempts were made to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims
in the commercial manufacture of soap."

It is worth emphasizing here that the "evidence" presented at the
Nuremberg Tribunal for the bogus soap story was no less substantial than
the "evidence" presented for the claims of mass extermination in "gas
chambers." At least in the former case, an actual sample of soap
supposedly made from corpses was submitted in evidence.

After the war, supposed Holocaust victims were solemnly buried, in the
form of soap bars, in Jewish cemeteries. In 1948, for example, four such
bars wrapped in a funeral shroud were ceremoniously buried according to
Jewish religious ritual at the Haifa cemetery in Israel. Other bars of
"Jewish soap" have been displayed as grim Holocaust relics at the Jewish
Historical Institute in Warsaw, the Stutthof Museum near Gdansk (Danzig),
the Yivo Institute in New York, the Holocaust Museum in Philadelphia, the
Jewish Holocaust Centre in Melbourne (Australia), and at various locations
in Israel.

Numerous Jews who lived in German ghettos and camps during the war helped
keep the soap story alive many years later. Ben Edelbaum, for example,
wrote in his 1980 memoir Growing Up in the Holocaust:

Often with our rations in the ghettos, the Germans had included a bar of
soap branded with initials R.J.F. which came to be known as "Rif" soap. It
wasn't until the war had ended that we learned the horrible truth about
the bar of soap. Had we known in the ghetto, every bar of "Rif" soap would
have been accorded a sacred Jewish funeral in the cemetery at Marysin. As
it was, we were completely oblivious to its origin and used the bones and
flesh of our murdered loved ones to wash our bodies.

Nesse Godin was transferred from a ghetto in Lithuania to the Stutthof
concentration camp in the spring of 1944. In a 1983 interview, she
recalled her arrival there:

That day they gave us a shower and a piece of soap. After the war we found
out the soap was made out of pure Jew fat, Rein Juden Fett, marked in the
initials on the soap that I washed with. For all I know sometimes maybe
there was a little bit of my father's fat in that soap that I washed with.
How do you think I feel when I think about that?

Mel Mermelstein, the former Auschwitz inmate who was featured in the
sensationalized April 1991 cable television movie "Never Forget" (and who
is currently suing the Institute for Historical Review and three other
defendants for $11 million), declared in a 1981 sworn deposition that he
and other camp inmates used soap bars made from human fat. It was an
"established fact," he insisted, that the soap he washed with was made
from Jewish bodies.

Renowned "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal repeated the soap tale in a series
of articles published in 1946 in the Austrian Jewish community paper Der
Neue Weg. In the first of these he wrote:

During the last weeks of March the Romanian press reported an unusual
piece of news: In the small Romanian city of Folticeni twenty boxes of
soap were buried in the Jewish cemetery with full ceremony and complete
funeral rites. This soap had been found recently in a former German army
depot. On the boxes were the initials RIF, "Pure Jewish Fat." These boxes
were destined for the Waffen-SS. The wrapping paper revealed with
completely cynical objectivity that this soap was manufactured from Jewish
bodies. Surprisingly, the thorough Germans forgot to describe whether the
soap was produced from children, girls, men or elderly persons.

Wiesenthal went on:

After 1942 people in the General Government [Poland] knew quite well what
the RIF soap meant. The civilized world may not believe the joy with which
the Nazis and their women in the General Government thought of this soap.
In each piece of soap they saw a Jew who had been magically put there, and
had thus been prevented from growing into a second Freud, Ehrlich or
Einstein.

In another article he observed: "The production of soap from human fat is
so unbelievable that even some who were in concentration camps find it
difficult to comprehend."

Over the years, numerous supposedly reputable historians have promoted the
durable soap story. Journalist-historian William L. Shirer, for example,
repeated it in his best-selling work, The Rise and Fall of the Third
Reich.

Leading Soviet war propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg wrote in his postwar
memoir: "I have held in my hand a cake of soap stamped with the legend
'pure Jewish soap', prepared from the corpses of people who had been
destroyed. But there is no need to speak of these things: thousands of
books have been written about them."

A standard history studies textbook used in Canadian secondary schools,
Canada: The Twentieth Century, told students that the Germans "boiled" the
corpses of their Jewish victims "to make soap." The Anatomy of Nazism, a
booklet published and distributed by the Zionist "Anti-Defamation League"
of B'nai B'rith, stated: "The process of brutalization did not end with
the mass murders themselves. Large quantities of soap were manufactured
from the corpses of those murdered."

A detailed 1981 work, Hitler's Death Camps, repeated the soap story in
lurid detail. While noting that "some historians claim that the Nazi
manufacture of soap from human fat is just a grim rumor," author Konnilyn
Feig nevertheless accepted the story because "most East European camp
scholars...validate the soap stories, and other kinds of bars made from
humans are displayed in Eastern Europe -- I have seen many over the
years."

New York Rabbi Arthur Schneier repeated the tale at the opening ceremony
of the largest Holocaust meeting in history. In his invocation to the
"American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors," held in Washington in
April 1983, the Rabbi solemnly declared: "We remember the bars of soap
with the initials RJF -- Rein j|disches Fett, Pure Jewish Fat -- made from
the bodies of our loved ones."

In spite of all the apparently impressive evidence, the charge that the
Germans manufactured soap from human beings is a falsehood, as Holocaust
historians are now belatedly acknowledging. The "RIF" soap bar initials
that supposedly stood for "Pure Jewish Fat" actually indicated nothing
more sinister than "Reich Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning"
("Reichsstelle f|r Industrielle Fettversorgung"), a German agency
responsible for wartime production and distribution of soap and washing
products. RIF soap was a poor quality substitute that contained no fat at
all, human or otherwise.

Shortly after the war the public prosecutor's office of Flensburg,
Germany, began legal proceedings against Dr. Rudolf Spanner for his
alleged role in producing human soap at the Danzig Institute. But after an
investigation the charge was quietly dropped. In a January 1968 letter,
the office stated that its inquiry had determined that no soap from human
corpses was made at the Danzig Institute during the war.

More recently, Jewish historian Walter Laqueur "denied established
history" by acknowledging in his 1980 book, The Terrible Secret, that the
human soap story has no basis in reality. Gitta Sereny, another Jewish
historian, noted in her book Into That Darkness: "The universally accepted
story that the corpses were used to make soap and fertilizer is finally
refuted by the generally very reliable Ludwigsburg Central Authority for
Investigation into Nazi Crimes."

Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of modern Jewish history, similarly "rewrote
history" when she confirmed in 1981: "The fact is that the Nazis never
used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the
production of soap."

In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew University,
regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well as Shmuel Krakowski,
archives director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, confirmed that
the human soap story is not true. Camp inmates "were prepared to believe
any horror stories about their persecutors," Bauer said. At the same time,
though, he had the chutzpah to blame the legend on "the Nazis."

In fact, blame for the soap story lies rather with individuals such as
Simon Wiesenthal and Stephen Wise, organizations like the World Jewish
Congress, and the victorious Allied powers, none of whom has ever
apologized for promoting this vile falsehood.

Why did Bauer and Krakowski decide that this was the appropriate time to
officially abandon the soap story? Krakowski himself hints that a large
part of the motivation for this "tactical retreat" has been to save what's
left of the sinking Holocaust ship by throwing overboard the most obvious
falsehoods. In the face of the growing Revisionist challenge, easily
demonstrable falsehoods like the soap story have become dangerous
embarrassments because they raise doubts about the entire Holocaust
legend. As Krakowski put it: "Historians have concluded that soap was not
made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened,
why give them something to use against the truth?"

The bad faith of those making this calculated and belated concession to
truth is shown by their failure to note that the soap myth was
authoritatively "confirmed" at Nuremberg, and by their unwillingness to
deal with the implications of that confirmation for the credibility of the
Tribunal and other supposedly trustworthy authorities in establishing
other, more fundamental aspects of the Holocaust story.

The striking contrast between the prompt postwar disavowal by the British
government of the infamous "human soap" lie of the First World War, and
the way in which a similarly baseless propaganda story from the Second
World War was officially endorsed by the victorious Allied powers and then
authoritatively maintained for so many years not only points up the
dispiriting lack of integrity on the part of so many Western historians,
but underscores the general decline in Western ethical standards during
this century.

The "human soap" story demonstrates anew the tremendous impact that a
wartime rumor, no matter how fantastic, can have once it has taken hold,
particularly when it is disseminated as a propaganda lie by influential
individuals and powerful organizations. That so many intelligent and
otherwise thoughtful people could ever have seriously believed that the
Germans distributed bars of soap brazenly labeled with letters indicating
that they were manufactured from Jewish corpses shows how readily even the
most absurd Holocaust fables can be -- and are -- accepted as fact.

-- 
Greg Raven
mailto:greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
-----------------------------------------------------
For free information about the IHR, write to:
IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659
Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year)
The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping


Article 21618 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Human soap
References: 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Jan23.192113.14215@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 19:21:13 GMT

In article  greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) writes:
>There seems to be some confusion on the topic of whether or not the Nazis
>made soap from human corpses. There is really no mystery to it. There were
>any number of "soap" rumors floating around, but at no time has anyone
>produced any actual "Nazi" soap made from human remains. This is very well
>covered in Mark Weber's article on this topic, which I will post again.

There's no confusion at all, Mr. Raven, as Mr. Stein has repeatedly
pointed out to you. The Nazis did indeed make soap from cadavers, at
Stutthof, although it is clear that no large-scale effort ever
existed.

According to Feig, bars of such soap do exist, in Eastern Europe,
although I have no idea where, nor whether or not they have ever
been confirmed as to their origin or content.

>Virtually every substantive question about this topic is answered in this
>article. Heck, even Deborah Lipstadt has acknowledged that the "soap"
>story is a myth.

Neither Lipstadt, nor any other scholar, has ever refuted the
testimony of Mazur et al. Unless and until she, or any other
scholar, _does_ provide such refutation, or _you_ produce such
refutation, the testimony stands as proven.

Can you produce such refutation, Mr. Raven?

I didn't think so.

-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                     kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


Article 21619 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Weber's "Human Soap" article (again)
References: 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Jan23.193837.14324@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 19:38:37 GMT

In article ,  Greg Raven 
once again provides Mr. Weber's inconclusive and misleading article about 
soap (Mr. Weber, it would appear, would rather avoid a personal
appearance here on the net):

[snip]

>After the war the soap story was given important legitimacy at the main
>Nuremberg trial. L. N. Smirnov, Chief Counsellor of Justice for the USSR,
>declared to the Tribunal:

>... The same base, rationalized SS technical minds which created gas
>chambers and murder vans, began devising such methods of complete
>annihilation of human bodies, which would not only conceal the traces of
>their crimes, but also to serve in the manufacturing of certain products.
>In the Danzig Anatomical Institute, semi-industrial experiments in the
>production of soap from human bodies and the tanning of human skin for
>industrial purposes were carried out.

In the past fifty years or thereabouts, this statement has never
been refuted, nor, one might add, was it refuted at Nuremberg.

>Smirnov quoted at length from an affidavit by Sigmund Mazur, an Institute
>employee, which was accepted as Nuremberg exhibit USSR-197. It alleged
>that Dr. Rudolf Spanner, the head of the Danzig Institute, had ordered the
>production of soap from corpses in 1943. According to Mazur's affidavit,
>Dr. Spanner's operation was of interest to high-ranking German officials.
>Education Minister Bernhard Rust and Health Leader Dr. Leonardo Conti, as
>well as professors from other medical institutes, came to witness
>Spanner's efforts. Mazur also claimed to have used the "human soap" to
>wash himself and his laundry.

In the past fifty years or thereabouts, this testimony has never
been refuted, nor, one might add, was it refuted at Nuremberg.

>A human soap "recipe," allegedly prepared by Dr. Spanner (Nuremberg
>document USSR-196), was also presented. Finally, a sample of what was
>supposed to be a piece of "human soap" was submitted to the Nuremberg
>Tribunal as exhibit USSR-393.

See above, Mr. Weber.

>In his closing address to the Tribunal, chief British prosecutor Sir
>Hartley Shawcross echoed his Soviet colleague: "On occasion, even the
>bodies of their victims were used to make good the wartime shortage of
>soap." And in their final judgment, the Nuremberg Tribunal judges found
>that "attempts were made to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims
>in the commercial manufacture of soap."

See above, Mr. Weber.

>It is worth emphasizing here that the "evidence" presented at the
>Nuremberg Tribunal for the bogus soap story was no less substantial than
>the "evidence" presented for the claims of mass extermination in "gas
>chambers." At least in the former case, an actual sample of soap
>supposedly made from corpses was submitted in evidence.

It is worth emphasizing here that neither Mr. Weber, nor anyone
else, has ever provided evidence that the testimony at Nuremberg has
false. Mr. Weber, a trained historian, simply repeats his "it didn't
happen" comments ad nauseum, without backing up his assertions with
a shred of evidence.

How typical of the IHR's "revisionist scholars."

[snip]

>Germany, began legal proceedings against Dr. Rudolf Spanner for his
>alleged role in producing human soap at the Danzig Institute. But after an
>investigation the charge was quietly dropped. In a January 1968 letter,
>the office stated that its inquiry had determined that no soap from human
>corpses was made at the Danzig Institute during the war.

Produce the letter, Mr. Weber, so we can all consider it.

>Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of modern Jewish history, similarly "rewrote
>history" when she confirmed in 1981: "The fact is that the Nazis never
>used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the
>production of soap."

Professor Lipstadt has not provided evidence refuting the testimony
noted above, neither has Mr. Weber, our "revisionist scholar."

>In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew University,
>regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well as Shmuel Krakowski,
>archives director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, confirmed that
>the human soap story is not true. Camp inmates "were prepared to believe
>any horror stories about their persecutors," Bauer said. At the same time,
>though, he had the chutzpah to blame the legend on "the Nazis."

Professor Bauer explicitly confirms that experiments were carried
out near Danzig, which "possibly involved attempts to make soap out
of human fats." Surely Mr. Weber knows this? One can only wonder why
he neglected to include this reality within his article...

>Why did Bauer and Krakowski decide that this was the appropriate time to
>officially abandon the soap story? Krakowski himself hints that a large
 
Why did Bauer explicitly confirm the Danzig experiments, Mr. Weber?

>The bad faith of those making this calculated and belated concession to
>truth is shown by their failure to note that the soap myth was
>authoritatively "confirmed" at Nuremberg, and by their unwillingness to
>deal with the implications of that confirmation for the credibility of the
>Tribunal and other supposedly trustworthy authorities in establishing
>other, more fundamental aspects of the Holocaust story.

As Bauer notes, the experiments occurred, as evidenced at Nuremberg.
No evidence was _ever_ presented there that concerned large-scale,
commercial soap manufacture, as our "revisionist scholar" must
certainly know...

-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                     kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


Article 21647 of alt.revisionism:
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From: golux@mcs.com (The only Golux in the World, and not a mere Device)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human soap
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 18:24:30 -0600
Organization: MCSNet Services
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: golux.pr.mcs.net

In article ,
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:

> There seems to be some confusion on the topic of whether or not the Nazis
> made soap from human corpses. There is really no mystery to it. There were
> any number of "soap" rumors floating around, but at no time has anyone
> produced any actual "Nazi" soap made from human remains. This is very well
> covered in Mark Weber's article on this topic, which I will post again.
> 
> Virtually every substantive question about this topic is answered in this
> article. Heck, even Deborah Lipstadt has acknowledged that the "soap"
> story is a myth.

Greg, why oh why do you never acknowledge Mike Stein's frequently posted
articles in which he discusses the fact that there are apparently two
different "soap stories" -- the 'RIF' Jewish-fat rumors, now generally
acknowledged to be untrue; and the Danzig experimental human-fat story,
which has never been refuted (and which Lipstadt's book does not address)?

And why oh why do you continue to harp on the "soap story" when you ought
to know that it is a trivial sidelight to the Holocaust?

And finally, why oh why do you post and repost Weber's article while
insisting that you will only discuss the gas chambers?

Posted/emailed, not that I expect it will do any good.

-- 
D. J. Schaeffer |       The Todal looks like a blob of glup.
golux@mcs.com   |     It makes a sound like rabbits screaming,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        and smells of old, unopened rooms.
                            -- Thurber, _The 13 Clocks_


Article 21661 of alt.revisionism:
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From: johnj@eskimo.com (John Anderson)
Subject: Re: Human soap
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eskimo.com
Message-ID: 
Sender: usenet@eskimo.com (News User Id)
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: 
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 01:02:56 GMT
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Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com) wrote:
: There seems to be some confusion on the topic of whether or not the Nazis
: made soap from human corpses. There is really no mystery to it. There were
: any number of "soap" rumors floating around, but at no time has anyone
: produced any actual "Nazi" soap made from human remains. This is very well
: covered in Mark Weber's article on this topic, which I will post again.

: Virtually every substantive question about this topic is answered in this
: article. Heck, even Deborah Lipstadt has acknowledged that the "soap"
: story is a myth.

: -- 
: Greg Raven
: mailto:greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
: http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
: -----------------------------------------------------
: For free information about the IHR, write to:
: IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659
: Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year)
: The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping

The human body is mostly water. Even if it were true Nazis made soap from 
humans it would be a stupid way to make soap. I doubt anyone would be 
stupid enough to make soap that way. More holocaustamania.


Article 21676 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Human soap
References:  
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Jan25.141830.28361@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 14:18:30 GMT

In article  johnj@eskimo.com (John Anderson) writes:

>The human body is mostly water. Even if it were true Nazis made soap from 
>humans it would be a stupid way to make soap. I doubt anyone would be 
>stupid enough to make soap that way. More holocaustamania.

Ah, Mr. Anderson, but the Nazis _did_ make soap... which just goes
to prove that they weren't all that bright, now, were they?

By the way, can you comment on what the Stutthof soap has to do with
the Holocaust?


-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                     kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


Article 21686 of alt.revisionism:
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From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human soap
Date: 22 Jan 1995 17:11:45 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
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References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net

In article , John Anderson  wrote:
>The human body is mostly water. Even if it were true Nazis made soap from 
>humans it would be a stupid way to make soap. I doubt anyone would be 
>stupid enough to make soap that way. More holocaustamania.

    Stupid enough, no.  But desperate enough?  Possibly.  The testimony 
of Mazur and the British POWs about the experiments at Stutthof said that 
it happened in 1944, at a time when things were going rapidly downhill.  
Germany was having troubles with access to raw materials.  People in 
desperate situations sometimes do things which may look stupid to us, but 
make quite a bit of sense when viewed from their perspective.


-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 21688 of alt.revisionism:
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From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Weber's "Human Soap" article
Date: 22 Jan 1995 17:19:52 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3fulm8$clq@access4.digex.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net

In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:

[much deleted]

>Shortly after the war the public prosecutor's office of Flensburg,
>Germany, began legal proceedings against Dr. Rudolf Spanner for his
>alleged role in producing human soap at the Danzig Institute. But after an
>investigation the charge was quietly dropped. In a January 1968 letter,
>the office stated that its inquiry had determined that no soap from human
>corpses was made at the Danzig Institute during the war.

    I have previously asked Greg for a copy or reference to this letter.  
He has not responded.

    As for the rest, I have previously posted on more than one occasion
that the story about "RIF" soap was indeed false - _no_ direct evidence
has been found, only wartime rumor.  However, the testimony of Mazur is a
different matter.  (In fact, if you think about it, it is evidence
_against_ the RIF story.) I have asked for the evidence that discredited
the testimony of Mazur and the British POWs at Nuremberg.  Raven has never
responded to my posts.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 21705 of alt.revisionism:
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From: hmazal@aol.com (HMazal)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human soap
Date: 23 Jan 1995 01:01:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3fvgnu$4u@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: 
Reply-To: hmazal@aol.com (HMazal)

Mr. Raven states:

>{verbiage deleted]...Heck, even Deborah Lipstadt has acknowledged that
the >"soap" story is a myth.

Professor Lipstadt only says this about Auschwitz.
Harry W. Mazal in San Antonio, Texas


Article 21729 of alt.revisionism:
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soap II
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:49:24 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

A few days ago I again posted Mark Weber's article on "Human Soap," which
deals with charges that the Nazis used Jewish (or other human) cadavers
for soap production. Each time I post this article, others post messages
to the effect that perhaps there was more than one "soap" rumor, and that
the Weber article does not address this.

This shows more clearly than ever how uninterested the anti-revisionists
are in dealing with the revisionist position. Weber's article explicitly
deals with the two most popular "soap" rumors, as would be clear to anyone
who has taken the time to read this article.

One of the points raised against this article is that when Deborah
Lipstadt says, as she is quoted is Vanity Fair (Dec. 1993), that in
regards the "confessions" of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess, "It's the
same with the soap story. I get protests from survivors, saying that I
shouldn't admit it's not true, because it gives ammunition to the enemy.
But I'm only interested in getting at the truth," she is somehow only
referring to one of the "soap" stories, and not all.

By extension, then, when Lipstadt writes, "It is also accurate that
scholars have long written that despite wartime rumors to the contrary,
the Nazis apparently did not use Jewish cadavers for soap" (Denying the
Holocaust, p. 188), she is somehow referring to only some of the "soap"
stories.

Making such a claim is, plainly and simply, intellectual dishonesty.

In the interests of intellectual honesty, then, I am reposting Weber's
"Human Soap" article in the hopes that all will read it, and that this
time, all will understand it.

-- 
Greg Raven
mailto:greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
-----------------------------------------------------
For free information about the IHR, write to:
IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659
Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year)
The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping


Article 21730 of alt.revisionism:
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Human Soap" again, for the intellectually dishonest
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:50:15 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 297
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

"Jewish Soap"

by Mark Weber

One of the most lurid and slanderous Holocaust claims is the story that
the Germans manufactured soap from the bodies of their victims. Although a
similar charge during the First World War was exposed as a hoax almost
immediately afterwards, it was nevertheless revived and widely believed
during the Second. More important, this accusation was "proved" at the
main Nuremberg trial of 1945-1946, and has been authoritatively endorsed
by numerous historians in the decades since. In recent years, though, as
part of a broad retreat from the most obviously untenable aspects of the
"orthodox" extermination story, Holocaust historians have grudgingly
conceded that the human soap tale is a wartime propaganda lie. In their
retreat, though, these historians have tried to dismiss the soap story as
a mere wartime "rumor," neglecting to mention that international Jewish
organizations and then Allied governments endorsed and sanctioned this
libelous canard.

Wartime rumors that the Germans were manufacturing soap from the corpses
of slaughtered Jews were based in part on the fact that soap bars
distributed by German authorities in Jewish ghettos and camps bore the
impressed initials "RIF," which many took to stand for "Rein juedisches
Fett" or "Pure Jewish Fat." (It did not seem to matter that the letters
were "RIF" and not "RJF.") These rumors spread so widely in 1941 and 1942
that by late 1942 German authorities in Poland and Slovakia were
expressing official concern about their impact.

According to a Polish source quoted in a secret wartime U.S. Army military
intelligence report, for example, the Germans were operating a "human soap
factory" in 1941 at Turek, Poland. "The Germans had brought thousands of
Polish teachers, priests and Jews there and after extracting the blood
serum from their bodies, had thrown them on large pots and melted off
grease to make soap," the intelligence report added.

Macabre "Jewish soap" jokes became popular in the ghettos and camps, and
many non-Jews on the outside came to believe the story. When trains loaded
with Jewish deportees stopped temporarily at rail stations, Poles
reportedly would gleefully shout at them: "Jews to soap!" Even British
prisoners of war interned at Auschwitz in 1944 testified later about the
wartime rumors that corpses of gassing victims were being turned into soap
there.

In spite of its inherently incredible character, the soap story became an
important feature of Jewish and Allied war propaganda. Rabbi Stephen S.
Wise, wartime head of both the World Jewish Congress and the American
Jewish Congress, publicly charged in November 1942 that Jewish corpses
were being "processed into such war-vital commodities as soap, fats and
fertilizer" by the Germans. He further announced that the Germans were
"even exhuming the dead for the value of the corpses," and were paying
fifty marks for each body.

In late 1942, the Congress Weekly, published by the American Jewish
Congress, editorialized that the Germans were turning Jews "by scientific
methods of dissolution into fertilizer, soap and glue." An article in the
same issue reported that Jewish deportees from France and Holland were
being processed into "soap, glue and train oil" in at least two special
factories in Germany. Typical of many other American periodicals, the
influential New Republic reported in early 1943 that the Germans were
"using the bodies of their Jewish victims to make soap and fertilizer in a
factory at Siedlce."

During June and July 1943, two prominent representatives of the
Moscow-based "Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee" toured the United States and
raised more than two million dollars for the Soviet war effort at a series
of mass meetings. At each of these rallies, Soviet Jewish leader Solomon
Mikhoels showed the crowd a bar of soap that he said was made from Jewish
corpses.

After the war the soap story was given important legitimacy at the main
Nuremberg trial. L. N. Smirnov, Chief Counsellor of Justice for the USSR,
declared to the Tribunal:

... The same base, rationalized SS technical minds which created gas
chambers and murder vans, began devising such methods of complete
annihilation of human bodies, which would not only conceal the traces of
their crimes, but also to serve in the manufacturing of certain products.
In the Danzig Anatomical Institute, semi-industrial experiments in the
production of soap from human bodies and the tanning of human skin for
industrial purposes were carried out.

Smirnov quoted at length from an affidavit by Sigmund Mazur, an Institute
employee, which was accepted as Nuremberg exhibit USSR-197. It alleged
that Dr. Rudolf Spanner, the head of the Danzig Institute, had ordered the
production of soap from corpses in 1943. According to Mazur's affidavit,
Dr. Spanner's operation was of interest to high-ranking German officials.
Education Minister Bernhard Rust and Health Leader Dr. Leonardo Conti, as
well as professors from other medical institutes, came to witness
Spanner's efforts. Mazur also claimed to have used the "human soap" to
wash himself and his laundry.

A human soap "recipe," allegedly prepared by Dr. Spanner (Nuremberg
document USSR-196), was also presented. Finally, a sample of what was
supposed to be a piece of "human soap" was submitted to the Nuremberg
Tribunal as exhibit USSR-393.

In his closing address to the Tribunal, chief British prosecutor Sir
Hartley Shawcross echoed his Soviet colleague: "On occasion, even the
bodies of their victims were used to make good the wartime shortage of
soap." And in their final judgment, the Nuremberg Tribunal judges found
that "attempts were made to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims
in the commercial manufacture of soap."

It is worth emphasizing here that the "evidence" presented at the
Nuremberg Tribunal for the bogus soap story was no less substantial than
the "evidence" presented for the claims of mass extermination in "gas
chambers." At least in the former case, an actual sample of soap
supposedly made from corpses was submitted in evidence.

After the war, supposed Holocaust victims were solemnly buried, in the
form of soap bars, in Jewish cemeteries. In 1948, for example, four such
bars wrapped in a funeral shroud were ceremoniously buried according to
Jewish religious ritual at the Haifa cemetery in Israel. Other bars of
"Jewish soap" have been displayed as grim Holocaust relics at the Jewish
Historical Institute in Warsaw, the Stutthof Museum near Gdansk (Danzig),
the Yivo Institute in New York, the Holocaust Museum in Philadelphia, the
Jewish Holocaust Centre in Melbourne (Australia), and at various locations
in Israel.

Numerous Jews who lived in German ghettos and camps during the war helped
keep the soap story alive many years later. Ben Edelbaum, for example,
wrote in his 1980 memoir Growing Up in the Holocaust:

Often with our rations in the ghettos, the Germans had included a bar of
soap branded with initials R.J.F. which came to be known as "Rif" soap. It
wasn't until the war had ended that we learned the horrible truth about
the bar of soap. Had we known in the ghetto, every bar of "Rif" soap would
have been accorded a sacred Jewish funeral in the cemetery at Marysin. As
it was, we were completely oblivious to its origin and used the bones and
flesh of our murdered loved ones to wash our bodies.

Nesse Godin was transferred from a ghetto in Lithuania to the Stutthof
concentration camp in the spring of 1944. In a 1983 interview, she
recalled her arrival there:

That day they gave us a shower and a piece of soap. After the war we found
out the soap was made out of pure Jew fat, Rein Juden Fett, marked in the
initials on the soap that I washed with. For all I know sometimes maybe
there was a little bit of my father's fat in that soap that I washed with.
How do you think I feel when I think about that?

Mel Mermelstein, the former Auschwitz inmate who was featured in the
sensationalized April 1991 cable television movie "Never Forget" (and who
is currently suing the Institute for Historical Review and three other
defendants for $11 million), declared in a 1981 sworn deposition that he
and other camp inmates used soap bars made from human fat. It was an
"established fact," he insisted, that the soap he washed with was made
from Jewish bodies.

Renowned "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal repeated the soap tale in a series
of articles published in 1946 in the Austrian Jewish community paper Der
Neue Weg. In the first of these he wrote:

During the last weeks of March the Romanian press reported an unusual
piece of news: In the small Romanian city of Folticeni twenty boxes of
soap were buried in the Jewish cemetery with full ceremony and complete
funeral rites. This soap had been found recently in a former German army
depot. On the boxes were the initials RIF, "Pure Jewish Fat." These boxes
were destined for the Waffen-SS. The wrapping paper revealed with
completely cynical objectivity that this soap was manufactured from Jewish
bodies. Surprisingly, the thorough Germans forgot to describe whether the
soap was produced from children, girls, men or elderly persons.

Wiesenthal went on:

After 1942 people in the General Government [Poland] knew quite well what
the RIF soap meant. The civilized world may not believe the joy with which
the Nazis and their women in the General Government thought of this soap.
In each piece of soap they saw a Jew who had been magically put there, and
had thus been prevented from growing into a second Freud, Ehrlich or
Einstein.

In another article he observed: "The production of soap from human fat is
so unbelievable that even some who were in concentration camps find it
difficult to comprehend."

Over the years, numerous supposedly reputable historians have promoted the
durable soap story. Journalist-historian William L. Shirer, for example,
repeated it in his best-selling work, The Rise and Fall of the Third
Reich.

Leading Soviet war propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg wrote in his postwar
memoir: "I have held in my hand a cake of soap stamped with the legend
'pure Jewish soap', prepared from the corpses of people who had been
destroyed. But there is no need to speak of these things: thousands of
books have been written about them."

A standard history studies textbook used in Canadian secondary schools,
Canada: The Twentieth Century, told students that the Germans "boiled" the
corpses of their Jewish victims "to make soap." The Anatomy of Nazism, a
booklet published and distributed by the Zionist "Anti-Defamation League"
of B'nai B'rith, stated: "The process of brutalization did not end with
the mass murders themselves. Large quantities of soap were manufactured
from the corpses of those murdered."

A detailed 1981 work, Hitler's Death Camps, repeated the soap story in
lurid detail. While noting that "some historians claim that the Nazi
manufacture of soap from human fat is just a grim rumor," author Konnilyn
Feig nevertheless accepted the story because "most East European camp
scholars...validate the soap stories, and other kinds of bars made from
humans are displayed in Eastern Europe -- I have seen many over the
years."

New York Rabbi Arthur Schneier repeated the tale at the opening ceremony
of the largest Holocaust meeting in history. In his invocation to the
"American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors," held in Washington in
April 1983, the Rabbi solemnly declared: "We remember the bars of soap
with the initials RJF -- Rein j|disches Fett, Pure Jewish Fat -- made from
the bodies of our loved ones."

In spite of all the apparently impressive evidence, the charge that the
Germans manufactured soap from human beings is a falsehood, as Holocaust
historians are now belatedly acknowledging. The "RIF" soap bar initials
that supposedly stood for "Pure Jewish Fat" actually indicated nothing
more sinister than "Reich Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning"
("Reichsstelle f|r Industrielle Fettversorgung"), a German agency
responsible for wartime production and distribution of soap and washing
products. RIF soap was a poor quality substitute that contained no fat at
all, human or otherwise.

Shortly after the war the public prosecutor's office of Flensburg,
Germany, began legal proceedings against Dr. Rudolf Spanner for his
alleged role in producing human soap at the Danzig Institute. But after an
investigation the charge was quietly dropped. In a January 1968 letter,
the office stated that its inquiry had determined that no soap from human
corpses was made at the Danzig Institute during the war.

More recently, Jewish historian Walter Laqueur "denied established
history" by acknowledging in his 1980 book, The Terrible Secret, that the
human soap story has no basis in reality. Gitta Sereny, another Jewish
historian, noted in her book Into That Darkness: "The universally accepted
story that the corpses were used to make soap and fertilizer is finally
refuted by the generally very reliable Ludwigsburg Central Authority for
Investigation into Nazi Crimes."

Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of modern Jewish history, similarly "rewrote
history" when she confirmed in 1981: "The fact is that the Nazis never
used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the
production of soap."

In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew University,
regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well as Shmuel Krakowski,
archives director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, confirmed that
the human soap story is not true. Camp inmates "were prepared to believe
any horror stories about their persecutors," Bauer said. At the same time,
though, he had the chutzpah to blame the legend on "the Nazis."

In fact, blame for the soap story lies rather with individuals such as
Simon Wiesenthal and Stephen Wise, organizations like the World Jewish
Congress, and the victorious Allied powers, none of whom has ever
apologized for promoting this vile falsehood.

Why did Bauer and Krakowski decide that this was the appropriate time to
officially abandon the soap story? Krakowski himself hints that a large
part of the motivation for this "tactical retreat" has been to save what's
left of the sinking Holocaust ship by throwing overboard the most obvious
falsehoods. In the face of the growing Revisionist challenge, easily
demonstrable falsehoods like the soap story have become dangerous
embarrassments because they raise doubts about the entire Holocaust
legend. As Krakowski put it: "Historians have concluded that soap was not
made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened,
why give them something to use against the truth?"

The bad faith of those making this calculated and belated concession to
truth is shown by their failure to note that the soap myth was
authoritatively "confirmed" at Nuremberg, and by their unwillingness to
deal with the implications of that confirmation for the credibility of the
Tribunal and other supposedly trustworthy authorities in establishing
other, more fundamental aspects of the Holocaust story.

The striking contrast between the prompt postwar disavowal by the British
government of the infamous "human soap" lie of the First World War, and
the way in which a similarly baseless propaganda story from the Second
World War was officially endorsed by the victorious Allied powers and then
authoritatively maintained for so many years not only points up the
dispiriting lack of integrity on the part of so many Western historians,
but underscores the general decline in Western ethical standards during
this century.

The "human soap" story demonstrates anew the tremendous impact that a
wartime rumor, no matter how fantastic, can have once it has taken hold,
particularly when it is disseminated as a propaganda lie by influential
individuals and powerful organizations. That so many intelligent and
otherwise thoughtful people could ever have seriously believed that the
Germans distributed bars of soap brazenly labeled with letters indicating
that they were manufactured from Jewish corpses shows how readily even the
most absurd Holocaust fables can be -- and are -- accepted as fact.

-- 
Greg Raven
mailto:greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
-----------------------------------------------------
For free information about the IHR, write to:
IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659
Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year)
The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping

Article 21745 of alt.revisionism:
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From: golux@mcs.com (The only Golux in the World, and not a mere Device)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soap II
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:39:33 -0600
Organization: MCSNet Services
Lines: 69
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: golux.pr.mcs.net

In article ,
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:

> A few days ago I again posted Mark Weber's article on "Human Soap," which
> deals with charges that the Nazis used Jewish (or other human) cadavers
> for soap production. Each time I post this article, others post messages
> to the effect that perhaps there was more than one "soap" rumor, and that
> the Weber article does not address this.
> 
> This shows more clearly than ever how uninterested the anti-revisionists
> are in dealing with the revisionist position. Weber's article explicitly
> deals with the two most popular "soap" rumors, as would be clear to anyone
> who has taken the time to read this article.
> 
> One of the points raised against this article is that when Deborah
> Lipstadt says, as she is quoted is Vanity Fair (Dec. 1993), that in
> regards the "confessions" of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess, "It's the
> same with the soap story. I get protests from survivors, saying that I
> shouldn't admit it's not true, because it gives ammunition to the enemy.
> But I'm only interested in getting at the truth," she is somehow only
> referring to one of the "soap" stories, and not all.

Greg, why is it unreasonable to assume that Lipstadt is referring to a
single "soap story" when she refers to "the soap story" (using the
singular rather than the plural)?  If she wanted to refer to all "soap
stories," I am fairly certain she understands how to use the plural in
English.

> By extension, then, when Lipstadt writes, "It is also accurate that
> scholars have long written that despite wartime rumors to the contrary,
> the Nazis apparently did not use Jewish cadavers for soap" (Denying the
> Holocaust, p. 188), she is somehow referring to only some of the "soap"
> stories.

Again, why should we not assume that Lipstadt is referring to the RIF soap
rumors when she discusses "wartime rumors" and implies a general Nazi
policy or practice of making soap from Jews, rather than the Danzig or
Stutthof experiment stories?  (Note also that Mike Stein has pointed out
that the soap experiment stories do not specifically mention that the
human cadavers used in the experiments were Jewish.  Thus, although her
wording is imprecise, Lipstadt could be correct without refuting the soap
experiment stories.)

> Making such a claim is, plainly and simply, intellectual dishonesty.

Well, given your approach to historiography and logical argumentation in
this newsgroup, I would say that if anyone knows intellectual dishonesty,
it's Greg Raven...but now it is apparent that you don't really understand
what it is.

> In the interests of intellectual honesty, then, I am reposting Weber's
> "Human Soap" article in the hopes that all will read it, and that this
> time, all will understand it.

Well, whatever your purpose in reposting Weber's screed, I feel reasonably
certain that "the interests of intellectual dishonesty" are not part of
it.

And you have yet to answer my question in another post: Why do you
continue to post articles such as Weber's soap article despite your
claimed intent to focus only on gas chambers?

Posted/emailed.

-- 
D. J. Schaeffer |       The Todal looks like a blob of glup.
golux@mcs.com   |     It makes a sound like rabbits screaming,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        and smells of old, unopened rooms.
                            -- Thurber, _The 13 Clocks_

Article 21806 of alt.revisionism:
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Weber caught in soft soap job
Date: 28 Jan 1995 16:48:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3gdsha$bb6@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3ftu16$q6h@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk4-24.ix.netcom.com

In  greg.ihr@kaiwan.com 
(Greg Raven) writes: 

>
>In article <3ftu16$q6h@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, anny@ix.netcom.com 
(Annie
>Alpert) wrote:
>                                                
>>      In other words, there WAS an experimental effort to     
>> produce soap from human remains according to Gitta Sereny    
>> and (more importantly) the Ludwigsburg Central Authority     
>> for Investigation of Nazi Crimes--AND MARK WEBER KNEW ABOUT IT ALL 
THE 
>> TIME, BUT LIED ABOUT IT.
>
>Wow, again! Annie seems to have found the "human soap" that the 
mainstream
>anti-revisionists all discount as being nothing more than a false 
rumor.
>Incredible.
>

What's your point?  Did Mark Weber or did he not falsely quote Gitte 
Sereny in his article?  I submit that he did.  Sorry if this fact causes 
you embarrassment, but that's life, kid!
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


Article 21808 of alt.revisionism:
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Experimental soap efforts
Date: 28 Jan 1995 16:50:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In  greg.ihr@kaiwan.com 
(Greg Raven) writes: 

>There are many problems with this account, but one that anyone can 
easily
>verify for himself is the fact that soap is not and cannot be made 
using
>this recipe. Oops! For those who are unsophisticated in the making of
>soap, rest assured that you cannot substitute "lie" for "lye."

Yawn.  Prove it.
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


Article 21851 of alt.revisionism:
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From: jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Experimental soap efforts
Date: 29 Jan 1995 09:33:03 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 44
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In article , greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) says:
>
>In article <3funbs$c62@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, anny@ix.netcom.com (Annie
>Alpert) wrote:
> 
>>  In February 1944 Professor Spanner gave me the recipe for the 
>> preparation of  soap from human fat. According to this recipe 5 kilos of 
>> human fat are mixed  with 10 liters of water and 500 or 1000 grams of 
>> caustic soda. All this is  boiled 2 or 3 hours and then cooled. The soap 
>> floats to the surface while the  water and other sediment remain at the 
>> bottom. A bit of salt and soda is  added to this mixture. Then fresh 
>> water is added, and the mixture again  boiled 2 or 3 hours. After having 
>> cooled the soap is poured into molds.
>> 
>> END TRANSCRIPT
>
>There are many problems with this account, but one that anyone can easily
>verify for himself is the fact that soap is not and cannot be made using
>this recipe. Oops! For those who are unsophisticated in the making of
>soap, rest assured that you cannot substitute "lie" for "lye."

I hate to pee in your cornflakes, Mr. Raven, but this recipe will produce
soap, not very good soap from what I gather, but soap nonetheless.

To manufacture soap you need fatty acids (animal or vegetable) and an
alkalizing agent to draw out the palmitate (i.e., soap).  Normally
sodium hydrochloride is used, but caustic soda--lye--will do.

I bothered to look this up because my grandmother used to complain about
the "bad old days" when someone would make a mistake with the tallow soap
recipe and get burned by too much lye.

Perhaps your own mistake is that _you_ have tried to use "lie" in your
recipe.

I note in passing, for John Anderson, that, yes indeedy, humans are mostly
water and thus an inefficient source of fat.  But cows are also mostly
water, which never prevented my grandmother from making soap from beef
tallow.  Maybe the inefficiency of using the corpses of emaciated prisoners
is why "human soap" never got past the experimental stage.

--
 John Morris                                       
 at University of Alberta     


Article 21861 of alt.revisionism:
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From: kfilan@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human soap
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 15:20:17 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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 writes:
 
>Come on, guys, damn near everyone from Simon Wiesenthal to IHR to Yad Vashem to
>practically every reputable scientist and historian have admitted that the
>"soap bar," "lamp shade" myth is exactly that--A MYTH!  Get a grip and move on!
 
Don't know about the soap... but I had gathered the "lampshade" thing only
happened in Buchenwald, where Ilse Koch had lampshades made of the skin
of prisoners.  (She was also alleged to have collected interesting tattoos).
 
Has that been disproven now... and if so, by who?
 

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