From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Jun  9 10:24:26 PDT 1996
Article: 42124 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel exhaust that looks like steam is bullshit
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:57:49 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31BA59CC.1A03@kaiwan.com>
References: <4nlrc2$agn@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4p4po3$3r2@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>  <4p7egc$ie3@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> 
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Daniel Keren wrote:
> 
> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
> # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> ## Giwer's problem is that there is no connection between what
> ## he thinks and reality. He also thought that Zyklon-B
> ## doesn't release HCN in a temperature of 20 C. He can test
> ## his hypothesis by standing in a room which is 20 C hot,
> ## and dropping Zyklon-B on the floor.
> 
> # I said no such thing.  So why the diversionary falsification?
> 
> Oh yes you did. Getting senile are you?
> 
> 
> 
>  From: mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
>  Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>  Subject: Re: Zyklone B - Unlikely Agent
>  Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 23:22:39 GMT
>  Organization: images incarnate
>  Lines: 60
>  Message-ID: <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
> 
> [...]
> 
> ## There is more information to support the faster release rates;
> ## I'll post it soon.
> 
> # Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any release
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> # at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mr. Keren is either incorrect or quoting Mr. Giwer out of context. According to the 
quote of Mr. Giwer provided by Mr. Keren, Mr. Giwer says nothing about the 20 degree 
figure being in Celsius. Perhaps in his statement he was hoping to imply that he was 
writing of a temperature of 20 degrees Fahrenheit. 

20 degrees C is hot. 20 degrees F is cold. Big difference.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Thu Jun 20 23:05:17 PDT 1996
Article: 44960 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Irving's 'Goebbels' book now available
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:39:21 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 154
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An announcement from the IHR
----------------------------
<<  Now Available !  >>


The Book 'They' Don't Want You to See!


	Defying an international censorship campaign, =


	here at last is David Irving's =


	Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich =

	---------------------------------------


This stunning new biography made headlines around the world in April when=
 =

one of America's most prominent publishers -- succumbing to what the =

London Times called "prolonged protests from Jewish pressure groups" -- =

broke its contract and halted publication. Before it gave in to a vicious=
 =

campaign that included death threats, St. Martin's Press was praising =

Goebbels as "monumental in scope ... Insightful ... draws on masses of =

previously unpublished materials ... Masterful ... masterpiece of =

research as well as a compelling story ..."

Now you can enjoy your own copy of Irving's brilliant product of seasoned=
 =

scholarship and gifted writing. You'll treasure this sumptuous hardcover =

masterpiece of nearly 700 pages, with more than a hundred photos, many in=
 =

full color. =


The New York Times Book Review calls this a "Rolls Royce" of a book, =

"filled with costly color photographs," written in "lively and =

compelling" prose, with "155 pages of footnotes." =


Typical of the grudging praise that Goebbels and Irving have been =

receiving in Britain is the commentary of George Stern in the Literary =

Review:

     "As with his books on Hitler and G=F6ring, Irving tries to show how =

events looked to Goebbels. He is the first to use Goebbels' full diary, =

75,000 pages, recently found in Moscow. He has interviewed many people, =

including surviving Nazis, and has used innumerable memoirs and diaries. =

The result is unique, as though Goebbels had a video recorder on his =

shoulder... Irving supplies well over a hundred photographs, some as =

sharp and as colourful as if they were taken yesterday... Irving's =

trademark research into original manuscripts is uniquely impressive." =


In his Daily Telegraph review, British historian John Keegan wrote: =


"David Irving knows more than anyone alive about the German side of the =

Second World War. He discovers archives unknown to official historians =

and turns their contents into densely footnoted narratives that =

consistently provoke controversy... His greatest achievement is Hitler's =

War, which has been described as `the autobiography the F=FChrer did not =

write' and is indispensable to anyone seeking to understand the war in =

the round. Now he has turned his attention to Joseph Goebbels... The =

result is a characteristic Irving book: 530 pages of text and 160 pages =

of relentless references..."

Writing in London Daily Mail, historian Tom Bower commented: =


"... Irving attracts credibility and attention by his indefatigable =

energy, intelligence and resourcefulness. Compared with most British =

historians, often a dull, lazy breed, Irving has spent a lifetime =

ceaselessly crisscrossing the globe to gather eyewitness evidence about =

World War II... As a formidable researcher, Irving has regularly =

surprised and challenged other historians and his archival armoury could =

not be ignored. ..." =



Price: $49.95, plus shipping ($3 domestic, $5 foreign). =

For orders of more than one book, include $1 for each additional book. =

California residents must add 7.75% ($3.87) state tax.

Institute for Historical Review
P.O. Box 2739,  Newport Beach, CA 92659,  USA
For faster service, fax your credit card order to: =

714 - 631 0981


------------------------------------------------------

Those interested in Irving's work can see a sampling on my Web site, the =

URL for which is shown below.

Note: Do NOT send me orders by e-mail. Especially, do NOT send your =

credit card numbers by e-mail, as e-mail is not a secure method of =

communicating.

--
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

--
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg




From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Tue Jun 25 08:56:50 PDT 1996
Article: 45836 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan085.kaiwan.com!user
From: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:38:30 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <4q8dtd$3i7@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qau2l$lmo@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4qf1a2$h4d@access5.digex.net> <835481149snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan085.kaiwan.com

> In article <4qf1a2$h4d@access5.digex.net>
>            mstein@access5.digex.net "Michael P. Stein" writes:
> >     Excuse me, but I must be missing something.  Other "revisionists" have
> > posted here - Greg Raven, Tim McCarthy, Fritz Berg, Bradley Smith, Ross
> > Vicksell, et al.  And their claims have been addressed.  They seem to have
> > given it up.  The only other ones currently left on any regular basis are
> > J. F. Beaulieu, Tom Moran, Jeff Roberts, and Al Baron.

My claims were addressed? This is news to me. I have repeatedly posted a
couple of simple questions to this newsgroup, and virtually all the
responses were personal attacks and long digressions on matters almost
totally unrelated to my question. The one or two "substantive" responses
were laughably silly.

Or did someone post proof for the existence of a Nazi gas chamber when I
wasn't looking?

-- 
Greg Raver (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
P.O. Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627 USA
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Wed Jun 26 07:18:34 PDT 1996
Article: 46005 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The US Holocaust Museum (html)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:52:24 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 342
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/pamphlets/ushmm.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

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The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum

A Costly and Dangerous Mistake 
Theodore J. O'Keefe 



Hard by the Washington Monument, within clear view of the Jefferson Memorial,
an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial, has arisen,
on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of America,
a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet marks countless
sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all races and creeds
in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a massive and costly
edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false version of the ordeal
in Europe, during World War II, of non-American members of a minority, sectarian
group. 



In the deceptive guise of tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial
Museum promotes a propaganda campaign, financed through the unwitting largesse
of the American taxpayer, in the interests of Israel and its adherents in
America. 



How did the federal government allow the creation of such a monstrosity?
What is its meaning for American policy and for American values? And what
must the American people do to regain control of the land their servants
in Washington handed over to a foreign interest, and to establish an enterprise
thereon, whether a museum or otherwise, informed by and conducted according
to American principles and interests? 
Origins 
In the late 1970s, during the presidency of James Earl "Jimmy"
Carter, a propaganda campaign to promote the "Holocaust," the
alleged systematic slaughter of some six million Jews by the Germans during
the Second World War, was organized and carried out from Hollywood and New
York. As Benjamin Meed, an important functionary of the Council that controls
the Holocaust Museum, wrote in 1990: (note 1) Almost a dozen years ago,
a new phenomena [sic] developed. The Holocaust was introduced into schools,
colleges, and universities. Television broadcast programs on the Holocaust
and millions of Americans watched them. Soon, Americans took great interest
in the lessons of the Holocaust, its uniqueness and its universal message.




Why the urgency of this campaign? Two factors were paramount: first, the
beginnings, more than three decades after the end of the Second World War,
of an objective, scholarly assessment of the facts of the alleged German
policy to exterminate European Jewry. (note 2) 



Second, the need to justify Zionist theory and practice in the face of unprecedented
international resistance to Israeli intransigence (including the famous
UN General Assembly Resolution that equated Zionism with racism), and to
defend Israel's aggressive policy under the leadership of the former terrorist,
Prime Minister Menachem Begin. (note 3) 
The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council 
In 1978 President Carter, his administration beleaguered at home and abroad,
succumbed to pressure from the new "Holocaust" lobby (and thus
America's influential Israel-first minority) by creating, through executive
order, the President's Commission on the Holocaust. Two years later, on
October 7, 1987, Congress passed -- unanimously -- a law establishing the
United States Holocaust Memorial Council, charged principally with constructing
and overseeing the operation of "a permanent living memorial to the
victims of the holocaust" and with providing "for appropriate
ways for the Nation to commemorate the Days of Remembrance, as an annual,
national, civic commemoration of the Holocaust ..." (note 4) 



A priceless tract of public land was turned over to the Council, and, after
years of costly delay (during which the Council's budget swelled from $2.5
million to over $18 million a year), the US Holocaust Memorial Museum was
finally completed and opened, to great media fanfare, in April 1993. 
A Sectarian, Alien Agenda 
Besides soliciting tens of millions of dollars in tax-deductible donations
to finance the Holocaust Museum, the US Holocaust Memorial Council has busied
itself with promoting an agenda of unalloyed support for minority, Zionist
ends. 



The membership of the Council, a US federal agency, has been overwhelmingly
Jewish since its founding in 1980. The Council's two different chairmen
-- Elie Wiesel and Harvey Meyerhoff -- have both been committed to the support
of the State of Israel, and the chairs of the Council's most important committees
have been likewise Jewish and Zionist. 



The chief fund-raiser for the Holocaust Museum [and later Council Chairman],
Miles Lerman, was formerly American vice chairman for the State of Israel
Bonds Organization, promoting tax-free investment in a country which receives
by far the largest amount of US foreign aid per year. Working the same wealthy
Jewish-Americans he has long dealt with in his fund-raising for Israel,
Lerman has helped raise nearly $160 million in tax-deductible contributions.
The biggest donors have been rewarded by having various components of the
museum named for them (e.g. the Wexner Learning Center). 



Nor is erecting and operating the Museum the only function with which the
Holocaust Memorial Council has been charged. Another of its duties is to
commemorate the "Days of Remembrance for Victims of the Holocaust,"
which Congress has raised to "an annual, national, civic commemoration
of the Holocaust." Like the Israeli Yom ha-Shoah ("Day of the
Holocaust"), on which they are based, the Days of Remembrance are dated
according to the lunar Hebrew calendar, and thus, like Passover or Chanukah,
fluctuate from year to year. These foreign days of lamentation are currently
celebrated, under the flag of the Republic, to prayers and chants in Hebrew,
across the land in governmental settings from the Capital Rotunda to city
halls. 



Need it be stated that no group of American victims of persecution, let
alone another foreign group, enjoys any such federally mandated and tax-supported
day, or days, of recognition? 
Museum's One-Sided 'History' 
Although the Council during its early years made noises about recognizing
the ordeals of non-Jews during the Second World War, the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum is relentlessly Judeocentric. While here and there are nods to non-Jewish
groups oppressed by the German National Socialists (although never to groups
victimized by Germany's enemies, above all by Stalin's USSR), the larger
holocaust of the Second World War, which claimed an estimated 75 to 80 million
lives around the world, is ignored in preference to the Jewish ordeal. Thus,
to cite just one telling example, the Museum's "Life before the Holocaust"
exhibit refers strictly to Jewish life before the Holocaust. (note 5) 



Where, in fact, non-Jews figure in the Museum, they figure largely as villains:
the Germans and their allies and collaborators; the Western allies, including
America, who refused to accept a large immigration before the war; the American
political and military leaders who refused to authorize costly bombing raids
on the Auschwitz "gas chambers." 
Soviet Liberators? 
The Museum's message that support for Jews is the sole measure of decency
during the Second World War leads to anomalies which, in an American museum
raised on ground hallowed to the principles of liberty on which this republic
is based, can only be called shocking. That the victims of World War II
atrocities by the Allies -- massacres such as the firebombing of Tokyo and
Dresden, the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Soviet slaughter
of Polish prisoners at Katyn, the mass rapes carried out by the Red Army
at the war's end -- receive no mention is deplorable. But the Museum's treatment
of the armed forces which defended Stalin's savage Soviet tyranny is nothing
short of grotesque. 



Communists appear in this Museum only in the guise of "resistance fighters"
and "liberators." For example, the submachine gun and false papers
of Samuel Weissberg, a Communist Party member who rose to high rank in a
Communist guerrilla group in North France, are on honored display, no less
precious a relic in the Museum's permanent exhibit than the standard heaps
of shoes and hair. (note 6) 



Even more unsettling is the honor given to Stalin's notorious Red Army,
which compiled a bloody and shameful record of atrocities across Europe
during, and after, the war. As the US Holocaust Memorial Council's newsletter
fulsomely puts it, "Flags will hang in the museum to honor the millions
of Soviet soldiers who drove Nazi forces westward and who were the first
allied forces to liberate and publicize the existence of the camps."
In the words of Council chairman Meyerhoff, these martial banners of the
Red tyranny have a single association: "Much more than simply wartime
memorabilia, these military artifacts are a significant contribution to
memory, one that will remind future generations of the pivotal role Soviet
forces played in defeating Nazism ..." (note 7) 



What must the millions of Americans originating or descending from the European
nations -- Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland,
Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia -- for which the
Red "military artifacts" symbolize invasion, tyranny, oppression,
and persecution of religion, think as they see the fierce armies of their
persecutors hailed as "liberators"? 
Israel in the Museum 
Just as one might guess from the circumstance that the Museum's director,
Jeshajahu Weinberg, and the head of its "Learning Center," Yechiam
Halevy, were brought in from Israel, the Museum's treatment of the state
of Israel is adulatory. An emotive tribute to the founding of Israel is
an integral part of the exhibition. That the establishment of Israel, and
its expansion in subsequent wars, has meant colonial occupation and oppression
for millions of the land's native Palestinians, and dispossession and exile
for millions more, goes unmentioned -- another grotesquery in an American
museum supposed to instruct in the dangers of intolerance and disregard
of human rights. 



As for the momentous collaboration between Hitler's German state and the
Zionist Jewish Agency in the 1930s, which through the Ha'avara Agreement
enabled the transfer of vital capital and the influx of tens of thousands
of highly skilled Jewish immigrants to Palestine -- that is passed over
in utter silence. (note 8) 
'Historical Correctness' 
The Museum's skewed history is not simply a matter of one-sidedness and
omission. It has further committed itself to a fixed and final interpretation
of the surprisingly scanty and sometimes suspect evidence for a German policy
of annihilating European Jewry, largely in gas chambers, in numbers approaching
six million. This despite a considerable body of research and scholarship
that has arisen over past two decades in many lands, and which contests,
by academic means, the substance of the Holocaust "extermination thesis."
(note 9) 



That the US Holocaust Memorial Council is aware of the work of revisionist
scholars is clear: the Council's literature is replete, not with substantive
refutations of revisionist scholarship, but with slander and polemic. To
cite one characteristic example, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter
of May 1992 featured a front-page attack on Holocaust revisionism by Professor
Deborah Lipstadt. In this article, Lipstadt decried the revisionists for
producing material that looked scholarly, then lauded the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum as "among the most efficacious ways" of "combatting
this pernicious trend," while neglecting to specify a single error
of revisionist scholarship. (note 10) 



While the US Holocaust Memorial Council recognizes that there is a historical
debate on the Holocaust, it takes official notice of the dissenting position
only to attack it. That an American institution, supported by the taxes
of all Americans, should commit itself to inflexible historical orthodoxy
-- in the service of a single American minority -- is an intolerable imposition
on our First Amendment rights, as well as a mockery of the Western, and
American, ideal of objective scholarship. 
A Center for Education? 
Council Chairman Meyerhoff has stated: "The Museum is primarily an
educational institution." (note 11) From the Council's own literature,
however, it is clear what Meyerhoff means by education. The "role-playing"
for children as well as adults who visit the Museum (visitors issued "identity
cards" bearing the name and alleged fate of various Holocaust victims);
the high-tech computer and video effects, and the recordings of speech and
music that augment the Museum's tendentiously described artifacts; and the
Museum's goal, as proclaimed by its Zionist fund-raising chairman, Miles
Lerman, of insuring that "Children in Dubuque, families in Tucson,
and schoolteachers in Atlanta will learn the history and the lessons of
Auschwitz as thoroughly as they learn the history of their own communities":
all these show that the US Holocaust Memorial Museum is a propaganda enterprise
that seeks to indoctrinate all Americans in a uniquely and partisanly Jewish
(and Zionist) version of not merely the past, but the present and the future.
(note 12) 
The American Response 
What is the American response to a partisan museum constructed in a place
solemnly consecrated to the heroes and the values of our Republic, to be
lavishly operated with taxpayer dollars at a time when, even in our country's
capital, thousands sleep homeless in the shadow of our national monuments?
What is the American response to an ambitious propaganda agenda that aims
to impose a sectarian "Holocaust remembrance" in schools where
our children cannot pray, in town halls and federal buildings from which
the religious symbols of the majority are banned in the name of freedom
of worship? 



Over two centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "To compel a man to
furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." (note 13) 



Nearly 150 years ago, Abraham Lincoln said: "I insist, that if there
is anything which it is the duty of the whole people to never entrust to
any hands but their own, that thing is the preservation and perpetuity of
their own liberties and institutions." (note 14) 



The US Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the Council that runs it, as agencies
of the government in which the American people is sovereign, must be removed
>from  the special interest that now controls it. 



The scope and purpose of the Museum must be expanded, from its present one-sided
emphasis on foreign Jewish sufferings, real and imagined, in Europe during
the 1930s and 1940s to a compassionate yet realistic concern for all victims,
but above all for American victims, of historic injustice. 



The Museum must be made a place where Americans of every heritage, and scholars
of every viewpoint, may gather, educate, and be educated, without accusation
and in the absence of propaganda. Until it is, the men and women who founded
and built and suffered and fought and died for America, of every race, nationality
and creed, will rest uneasy. 
Notes 

  
The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter (Washington,
DC), August, 1990, "Survivors Play Major Role in Establishing the U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Museum," p. 1. Meed is president of the American
Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, and chairman of the Council's Content
and Days of Remembrance committees. 
  
In 1976, Professor Arthur Butz's book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century:
The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry was first
published in England; in November 1978 Professor Robert Faurisson's article,
"The Problem of the Gas Chambers," was published in the Paris
daily Le Monde. Professor Butz has commented on the simultaneous and independent
appearance of a variety of earlier academic criticisms of the wartime propaganda
version of Jewry's ordeal in "The International Holocaust Controversy,"
The Journal of Historical Review, Spring 1980, pp. 5-22. 
  
By resolution of the United Nations General Assembly on Nov. 10, 1975,
Zionism was condemned as "a form of racism and racial discrimination."
  
Public Law 96-388, 1, Oct. 7, 1980, 94 Stat. 1547. 
  
Statements regarding the Museum's permanent exhibit, except where
otherwise noted, are derived from the floor plan and photographs in United
States Holocaust Memorial Museum, a brochure published in 1991 by the USHMC.
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, "French Resistance
Fighter's Weapon Will Help Tell Story of Underground Movement," Sept.
1991, p. 4. 
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, "Russian Embassy Presents
Flags of Liberating Units to Museum," Fall 1992, p. 6. 
  
For the most complete account of relations between the Nazis and the
Zionists, see Francis Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question,
(Austin: Univ. of Texas, 1985). See also: M. Weber, "Zionism and the
Third Reich," The Journal of Historical Review, July-August 1993, pp.
29-37. 
  
The most complete survey of Holocaust revisionist writings to date
is Carlo Mattogno's "The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews -- Part
II," in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1988, pp. 261-302. 
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, May 1992, "Denying
the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth," p. 6. 
  
US Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, Nov. 1991, "Wexner Family
Donates $5 Million to Fund Interactive Learning Center," p. 1. 
  
The "identity cards" and other features of the Museum are
described in the brochure cited in note 5, above. Lerman's statement is
in a fund-raising letter mailed out by the Museum to potential Jewish contributors
in 1991. 
  
From "A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom," 1779,
in Jefferson: Magnificent Populist, edited by Martin Larson, (Greenwich,
Conn.: Devin-Adair, 1981), p. 319. 
  
"Speech at Peoria, Ill.," Oct. 16, 1854, in The American
Intellectual Tradition, Vol. 1, edited by David Hollinger and Charles Capper
(New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1989), p. 382. 

updated March/April 1995 
Theodore J. O'Keefe, educated at Harvard
University, is the author of numerous published articles, essays and reviews
on historical and political subjects. For some years he served as editor
of this Journal. This essay is available, in convenient leaflet form, from
the IHR at the following prices: Ten copies for $2; Fifty copies for $5;
100 copies or more, 8 cents each. 
For a current catalog, with a complete
listing of books and audio and video tapes, send two dollars to: 



Institute For Historical Review 

Post Office Box 2739 

Newport Beach, California 92659 
Send all questions and comments to ihrgreg@kaiwan.com




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From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Wed Jun 26 07:18:34 PDT 1996
Article: 46076 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:51:32 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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Chuck Ferree wrote:
> Chuck Ferree (The Savior of Europe) me and eleven million other guys.

Perhaps, but what whom or what did you save Europe? The Soviet army had 
all but defeated Nazi Germany by the time the Americans got involved, so 
perhaps you mean you saved Europe from the Soviet Union.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Wed Jun 26 08:04:31 PDT 1996
Article: 46005 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
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Subject: The US Holocaust Museum (html)
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http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/pamphlets/ushmm.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

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The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum

A Costly and Dangerous Mistake 
Theodore J. O'Keefe 



Hard by the Washington Monument, within clear view of the Jefferson Memorial,
an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial, has arisen,
on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of America,
a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet marks countless
sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all races and creeds
in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a massive and costly
edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false version of the ordeal
in Europe, during World War II, of non-American members of a minority, sectarian
group. 



In the deceptive guise of tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial
Museum promotes a propaganda campaign, financed through the unwitting largesse
of the American taxpayer, in the interests of Israel and its adherents in
America. 



How did the federal government allow the creation of such a monstrosity?
What is its meaning for American policy and for American values? And what
must the American people do to regain control of the land their servants
in Washington handed over to a foreign interest, and to establish an enterprise
thereon, whether a museum or otherwise, informed by and conducted according
to American principles and interests? 
Origins 
In the late 1970s, during the presidency of James Earl "Jimmy"
Carter, a propaganda campaign to promote the "Holocaust," the
alleged systematic slaughter of some six million Jews by the Germans during
the Second World War, was organized and carried out from Hollywood and New
York. As Benjamin Meed, an important functionary of the Council that controls
the Holocaust Museum, wrote in 1990: (note 1) Almost a dozen years ago,
a new phenomena [sic] developed. The Holocaust was introduced into schools,
colleges, and universities. Television broadcast programs on the Holocaust
and millions of Americans watched them. Soon, Americans took great interest
in the lessons of the Holocaust, its uniqueness and its universal message.




Why the urgency of this campaign? Two factors were paramount: first, the
beginnings, more than three decades after the end of the Second World War,
of an objective, scholarly assessment of the facts of the alleged German
policy to exterminate European Jewry. (note 2) 



Second, the need to justify Zionist theory and practice in the face of unprecedented
international resistance to Israeli intransigence (including the famous
UN General Assembly Resolution that equated Zionism with racism), and to
defend Israel's aggressive policy under the leadership of the former terrorist,
Prime Minister Menachem Begin. (note 3) 
The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council 
In 1978 President Carter, his administration beleaguered at home and abroad,
succumbed to pressure from the new "Holocaust" lobby (and thus
America's influential Israel-first minority) by creating, through executive
order, the President's Commission on the Holocaust. Two years later, on
October 7, 1987, Congress passed -- unanimously -- a law establishing the
United States Holocaust Memorial Council, charged principally with constructing
and overseeing the operation of "a permanent living memorial to the
victims of the holocaust" and with providing "for appropriate
ways for the Nation to commemorate the Days of Remembrance, as an annual,
national, civic commemoration of the Holocaust ..." (note 4) 



A priceless tract of public land was turned over to the Council, and, after
years of costly delay (during which the Council's budget swelled from $2.5
million to over $18 million a year), the US Holocaust Memorial Museum was
finally completed and opened, to great media fanfare, in April 1993. 
A Sectarian, Alien Agenda 
Besides soliciting tens of millions of dollars in tax-deductible donations
to finance the Holocaust Museum, the US Holocaust Memorial Council has busied
itself with promoting an agenda of unalloyed support for minority, Zionist
ends. 



The membership of the Council, a US federal agency, has been overwhelmingly
Jewish since its founding in 1980. The Council's two different chairmen
-- Elie Wiesel and Harvey Meyerhoff -- have both been committed to the support
of the State of Israel, and the chairs of the Council's most important committees
have been likewise Jewish and Zionist. 



The chief fund-raiser for the Holocaust Museum [and later Council Chairman],
Miles Lerman, was formerly American vice chairman for the State of Israel
Bonds Organization, promoting tax-free investment in a country which receives
by far the largest amount of US foreign aid per year. Working the same wealthy
Jewish-Americans he has long dealt with in his fund-raising for Israel,
Lerman has helped raise nearly $160 million in tax-deductible contributions.
The biggest donors have been rewarded by having various components of the
museum named for them (e.g. the Wexner Learning Center). 



Nor is erecting and operating the Museum the only function with which the
Holocaust Memorial Council has been charged. Another of its duties is to
commemorate the "Days of Remembrance for Victims of the Holocaust,"
which Congress has raised to "an annual, national, civic commemoration
of the Holocaust." Like the Israeli Yom ha-Shoah ("Day of the
Holocaust"), on which they are based, the Days of Remembrance are dated
according to the lunar Hebrew calendar, and thus, like Passover or Chanukah,
fluctuate from year to year. These foreign days of lamentation are currently
celebrated, under the flag of the Republic, to prayers and chants in Hebrew,
across the land in governmental settings from the Capital Rotunda to city
halls. 



Need it be stated that no group of American victims of persecution, let
alone another foreign group, enjoys any such federally mandated and tax-supported
day, or days, of recognition? 
Museum's One-Sided 'History' 
Although the Council during its early years made noises about recognizing
the ordeals of non-Jews during the Second World War, the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum is relentlessly Judeocentric. While here and there are nods to non-Jewish
groups oppressed by the German National Socialists (although never to groups
victimized by Germany's enemies, above all by Stalin's USSR), the larger
holocaust of the Second World War, which claimed an estimated 75 to 80 million
lives around the world, is ignored in preference to the Jewish ordeal. Thus,
to cite just one telling example, the Museum's "Life before the Holocaust"
exhibit refers strictly to Jewish life before the Holocaust. (note 5) 



Where, in fact, non-Jews figure in the Museum, they figure largely as villains:
the Germans and their allies and collaborators; the Western allies, including
America, who refused to accept a large immigration before the war; the American
political and military leaders who refused to authorize costly bombing raids
on the Auschwitz "gas chambers." 
Soviet Liberators? 
The Museum's message that support for Jews is the sole measure of decency
during the Second World War leads to anomalies which, in an American museum
raised on ground hallowed to the principles of liberty on which this republic
is based, can only be called shocking. That the victims of World War II
atrocities by the Allies -- massacres such as the firebombing of Tokyo and
Dresden, the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Soviet slaughter
of Polish prisoners at Katyn, the mass rapes carried out by the Red Army
at the war's end -- receive no mention is deplorable. But the Museum's treatment
of the armed forces which defended Stalin's savage Soviet tyranny is nothing
short of grotesque. 



Communists appear in this Museum only in the guise of "resistance fighters"
and "liberators." For example, the submachine gun and false papers
of Samuel Weissberg, a Communist Party member who rose to high rank in a
Communist guerrilla group in North France, are on honored display, no less
precious a relic in the Museum's permanent exhibit than the standard heaps
of shoes and hair. (note 6) 



Even more unsettling is the honor given to Stalin's notorious Red Army,
which compiled a bloody and shameful record of atrocities across Europe
during, and after, the war. As the US Holocaust Memorial Council's newsletter
fulsomely puts it, "Flags will hang in the museum to honor the millions
of Soviet soldiers who drove Nazi forces westward and who were the first
allied forces to liberate and publicize the existence of the camps."
In the words of Council chairman Meyerhoff, these martial banners of the
Red tyranny have a single association: "Much more than simply wartime
memorabilia, these military artifacts are a significant contribution to
memory, one that will remind future generations of the pivotal role Soviet
forces played in defeating Nazism ..." (note 7) 



What must the millions of Americans originating or descending from the European
nations -- Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland,
Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia -- for which the
Red "military artifacts" symbolize invasion, tyranny, oppression,
and persecution of religion, think as they see the fierce armies of their
persecutors hailed as "liberators"? 
Israel in the Museum 
Just as one might guess from the circumstance that the Museum's director,
Jeshajahu Weinberg, and the head of its "Learning Center," Yechiam
Halevy, were brought in from Israel, the Museum's treatment of the state
of Israel is adulatory. An emotive tribute to the founding of Israel is
an integral part of the exhibition. That the establishment of Israel, and
its expansion in subsequent wars, has meant colonial occupation and oppression
for millions of the land's native Palestinians, and dispossession and exile
for millions more, goes unmentioned -- another grotesquery in an American
museum supposed to instruct in the dangers of intolerance and disregard
of human rights. 



As for the momentous collaboration between Hitler's German state and the
Zionist Jewish Agency in the 1930s, which through the Ha'avara Agreement
enabled the transfer of vital capital and the influx of tens of thousands
of highly skilled Jewish immigrants to Palestine -- that is passed over
in utter silence. (note 8) 
'Historical Correctness' 
The Museum's skewed history is not simply a matter of one-sidedness and
omission. It has further committed itself to a fixed and final interpretation
of the surprisingly scanty and sometimes suspect evidence for a German policy
of annihilating European Jewry, largely in gas chambers, in numbers approaching
six million. This despite a considerable body of research and scholarship
that has arisen over past two decades in many lands, and which contests,
by academic means, the substance of the Holocaust "extermination thesis."
(note 9) 



That the US Holocaust Memorial Council is aware of the work of revisionist
scholars is clear: the Council's literature is replete, not with substantive
refutations of revisionist scholarship, but with slander and polemic. To
cite one characteristic example, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter
of May 1992 featured a front-page attack on Holocaust revisionism by Professor
Deborah Lipstadt. In this article, Lipstadt decried the revisionists for
producing material that looked scholarly, then lauded the US Holocaust Memorial
Museum as "among the most efficacious ways" of "combatting
this pernicious trend," while neglecting to specify a single error
of revisionist scholarship. (note 10) 



While the US Holocaust Memorial Council recognizes that there is a historical
debate on the Holocaust, it takes official notice of the dissenting position
only to attack it. That an American institution, supported by the taxes
of all Americans, should commit itself to inflexible historical orthodoxy
-- in the service of a single American minority -- is an intolerable imposition
on our First Amendment rights, as well as a mockery of the Western, and
American, ideal of objective scholarship. 
A Center for Education? 
Council Chairman Meyerhoff has stated: "The Museum is primarily an
educational institution." (note 11) From the Council's own literature,
however, it is clear what Meyerhoff means by education. The "role-playing"
for children as well as adults who visit the Museum (visitors issued "identity
cards" bearing the name and alleged fate of various Holocaust victims);
the high-tech computer and video effects, and the recordings of speech and
music that augment the Museum's tendentiously described artifacts; and the
Museum's goal, as proclaimed by its Zionist fund-raising chairman, Miles
Lerman, of insuring that "Children in Dubuque, families in Tucson,
and schoolteachers in Atlanta will learn the history and the lessons of
Auschwitz as thoroughly as they learn the history of their own communities":
all these show that the US Holocaust Memorial Museum is a propaganda enterprise
that seeks to indoctrinate all Americans in a uniquely and partisanly Jewish
(and Zionist) version of not merely the past, but the present and the future.
(note 12) 
The American Response 
What is the American response to a partisan museum constructed in a place
solemnly consecrated to the heroes and the values of our Republic, to be
lavishly operated with taxpayer dollars at a time when, even in our country's
capital, thousands sleep homeless in the shadow of our national monuments?
What is the American response to an ambitious propaganda agenda that aims
to impose a sectarian "Holocaust remembrance" in schools where
our children cannot pray, in town halls and federal buildings from which
the religious symbols of the majority are banned in the name of freedom
of worship? 



Over two centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "To compel a man to
furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." (note 13) 



Nearly 150 years ago, Abraham Lincoln said: "I insist, that if there
is anything which it is the duty of the whole people to never entrust to
any hands but their own, that thing is the preservation and perpetuity of
their own liberties and institutions." (note 14) 



The US Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the Council that runs it, as agencies
of the government in which the American people is sovereign, must be removed
>from  the special interest that now controls it. 



The scope and purpose of the Museum must be expanded, from its present one-sided
emphasis on foreign Jewish sufferings, real and imagined, in Europe during
the 1930s and 1940s to a compassionate yet realistic concern for all victims,
but above all for American victims, of historic injustice. 



The Museum must be made a place where Americans of every heritage, and scholars
of every viewpoint, may gather, educate, and be educated, without accusation
and in the absence of propaganda. Until it is, the men and women who founded
and built and suffered and fought and died for America, of every race, nationality
and creed, will rest uneasy. 
Notes 

  
The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter (Washington,
DC), August, 1990, "Survivors Play Major Role in Establishing the U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Museum," p. 1. Meed is president of the American
Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, and chairman of the Council's Content
and Days of Remembrance committees. 
  
In 1976, Professor Arthur Butz's book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century:
The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry was first
published in England; in November 1978 Professor Robert Faurisson's article,
"The Problem of the Gas Chambers," was published in the Paris
daily Le Monde. Professor Butz has commented on the simultaneous and independent
appearance of a variety of earlier academic criticisms of the wartime propaganda
version of Jewry's ordeal in "The International Holocaust Controversy,"
The Journal of Historical Review, Spring 1980, pp. 5-22. 
  
By resolution of the United Nations General Assembly on Nov. 10, 1975,
Zionism was condemned as "a form of racism and racial discrimination."
  
Public Law 96-388, 1, Oct. 7, 1980, 94 Stat. 1547. 
  
Statements regarding the Museum's permanent exhibit, except where
otherwise noted, are derived from the floor plan and photographs in United
States Holocaust Memorial Museum, a brochure published in 1991 by the USHMC.
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, "French Resistance
Fighter's Weapon Will Help Tell Story of Underground Movement," Sept.
1991, p. 4. 
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, "Russian Embassy Presents
Flags of Liberating Units to Museum," Fall 1992, p. 6. 
  
For the most complete account of relations between the Nazis and the
Zionists, see Francis Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question,
(Austin: Univ. of Texas, 1985). See also: M. Weber, "Zionism and the
Third Reich," The Journal of Historical Review, July-August 1993, pp.
29-37. 
  
The most complete survey of Holocaust revisionist writings to date
is Carlo Mattogno's "The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews -- Part
II," in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1988, pp. 261-302. 
  
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, May 1992, "Denying
the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth," p. 6. 
  
US Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter, Nov. 1991, "Wexner Family
Donates $5 Million to Fund Interactive Learning Center," p. 1. 
  
The "identity cards" and other features of the Museum are
described in the brochure cited in note 5, above. Lerman's statement is
in a fund-raising letter mailed out by the Museum to potential Jewish contributors
in 1991. 
  
From "A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom," 1779,
in Jefferson: Magnificent Populist, edited by Martin Larson, (Greenwich,
Conn.: Devin-Adair, 1981), p. 319. 
  
"Speech at Peoria, Ill.," Oct. 16, 1854, in The American
Intellectual Tradition, Vol. 1, edited by David Hollinger and Charles Capper
(New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1989), p. 382. 

updated March/April 1995 
Theodore J. O'Keefe, educated at Harvard
University, is the author of numerous published articles, essays and reviews
on historical and political subjects. For some years he served as editor
of this Journal. This essay is available, in convenient leaflet form, from
the IHR at the following prices: Ten copies for $2; Fifty copies for $5;
100 copies or more, 8 cents each. 
For a current catalog, with a complete
listing of books and audio and video tapes, send two dollars to: 



Institute For Historical Review 

Post Office Box 2739 

Newport Beach, California 92659 
Send all questions and comments to ihrgreg@kaiwan.com




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From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Wed Jun 26 08:04:32 PDT 1996
Article: 46076 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:51:32 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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Chuck Ferree wrote:
> Chuck Ferree (The Savior of Europe) me and eleven million other guys.

Perhaps, but what whom or what did you save Europe? The Soviet army had 
all but defeated Nazi Germany by the time the Americans got involved, so 
perhaps you mean you saved Europe from the Soviet Union.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Wed Jun 26 21:32:46 PDT 1996
Article: 46187 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor:  Frauds are us
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 21:23:26 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 40
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References: <4qgvah$hc6@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> <4qhoat$oba@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
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Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> In article <4qhoat$oba@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ruthsommer@aol.com
> (RuthSommer) wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > That reminds me.  I went hunting the other day and shot a 400-pound
> > squirrel.He was HUGE.  What, you doubt it?  I can PROVE it. I will take
> > you to the actual tree where he was shot.
> 
> And will RuthSommer, the witty H*berite, provide testimony from other
> squirrels and hunters as to her(?) hunting prowess? Will RuthSommer
> provide tons of self-incriminating documentation attesting to the killing
> of said squirrel?  Will RuthSommer provide the intstrument of killing?
> Will RuthSommer provide photos of this squirrel carcass? Will RuthSommer
> provide forensic evidence of this squirrel carcass?
> 
> No? What then _does_ RuthSommer provide here? Why, nothing besides
> juvenile innuendo and psycho-rants it seems....


You are right, of course. Eyewitness testimony should be doubted or discarded when in 
conflicts with the laws of nature and other known facts.

That is why, when we are told that the the Nazis gassed millions of Jews and others, that we 
not only compare all the so-called eyewitness testimony, but also examine the gas chamber, 
examine photos of the corpses of gassed victims, review forensic autopsies of the gassed 
victims.

In the case of the Holocaust gassing stories, the eyewitnesses disagree with each other, 
there are no extant gas chambers, there are no photos of corpses, and there are no autopsy 
reports.

Certainly any thoughtful person would wonder.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Fri Jun 28 10:40:03 PDT 1996
Article: 46472 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel's crocodile tears
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:59:48 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31D2CC12.5E3C@kaiwan.com>
References: <4q9ief$944@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qbua5$fhb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4qcebh$k46@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4qeevl$96t@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <199606271415.KAA15895@vixa.voyager.net>
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Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> 
> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
> alt.revisionism)
> 
> kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
> 
> > Two juries found that [Ernst Zuendel] knowingly
> > published lies - in my book, that makes him a liar :-)
> 
> ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:
> 
> > No doubt, if the Court had determined that someone was a witch, and had
> > burned him at the stake, any subsequent opinions that there were no such
> > things as witches would not change that person's witchworthiness.
> 
> Mr. Raven appears to be claiming that there are no such things as liars.
> 
> No comment is necessary, I don't think.

Whether or not you think, the point I was making is that calling someone a liar does 
not make him a liar.

--
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Fri Jun 28 10:40:05 PDT 1996
Article: 46488 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan085.kaiwan.com!user
From: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel's crocodile tears
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:23:56 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 12
Message-ID: 
References: <4q9ief$944@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qbua5$fhb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4qcebh$k46@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4qeevl$96t@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan085.kaiwan.com

In article <4qeevl$96t@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
> >Isn't it the case that the appeal threw out the law itself rather than
> >the verdict?  In other words, Mr. Zuendel was indeed proven to be a
> >liar, but the the higher court found that lying isn't a crime.
> 
> That is precisely right. Two juries found that he knowingly
> published lies - in my book, that makes him a liar :-)

No doubt, if the Court had determined that someone was a witch, and had
burned him at the stake, any subsequent opinions that there were no such
things as witches would not change that person's witchworthiness.


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sat Jun 29 07:30:47 PDT 1996
Article: 46646 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel's crocodile tears
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:51:01 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> 
> kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
> 
> > Two juries found that [Ernst Zuendel] knowingly
> > published lies - in my book, that makes him a liar :-)
> 
> ihrgreg@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:
> 
> > No doubt, if the Court had determined that someone was a witch, and had
> > burned him at the stake, any subsequent opinions that there were no such
> > things as witches would not change that person's witchworthiness.
> 
> Mr. Raven appears to be claiming that there are no such things as liars.
> 
> No comment is necessary, I don't think.


Is this a repost from a couple days ago? No matter. While I make a vain attempt to ignore your 
admission of thoughtlessness, let me say that my point is that calling someone a liar does not make 
him one, just as calling a person a witch does not mean there are witches. For that matter, calling 
a room a Nazi gas chamber does not mean that it was ever used as a gas chamber, or that such a thing 
exists.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sat Jun 29 07:30:48 PDT 1996
Article: 46666 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving's 'Goebbels' book now available
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:59:04 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> In article <4qurdi$2pu@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
> (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
> 
> > In article ,
> > Mark Van Alstine  wrote:
> > >Hmmm. "Bogus" controversies and "flawed vision" not a very flattering
> > >picture Keegan paints of Irving, IMHO. One, I imagine, that would be even
> > >less flattering if Keegan had commented on (or known about?) Irving's
> > >Holocaust denial antics and penchant for losing law suits as a result of
> > >his historical "research."
> >
> >     It should be noted that "The Destruction of Convoy PQ-17," the book
> > over which Irving lost a lawsuit, has been reissued.  Irving claims he
> > lost the suit because he was denied the right to use "Ultra" evidence in
> > his defense.  The reissue of the book means one of two things: either
> > Irving has new evidence which vindicates him, or Capt. Broome is dead and
> > can no longer sue. I really don't know which one it is.
> 
> I doubt that any new significant ULTRA information has come to light
> regarding PQ17. Dan van der Vat's _The Atlantic Campaign_, a most
> excellent work published in 1988, gives a very informative five-page
> sysnopsis concerning the PQ17 disaster in which he discusses the role of
> ULTRA.
> 
> As to Capt. Broome passing away? I have no idea. But if he has, I would
> suggest Irving's reissueing his book is a rather craven thing to do. In
> that case, I would hope his estate and/or survivors would take Irving to
> court. Again.

Attached (I hope) is the Foreword to a later edition of Irving's The Destruction of Convoy 
PQ-17.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

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The Destruction of Convoy PQ-17
Foreword
This was the book that Britain's Royal Navy tried to stop. When author David
Irving researched the history of the disastrous Anglo-American convoy operation
PQ.17 of June 1942 he stumbled upon the guiltiest secrets in the Admiralty's
locker: through their own blundering incompetence they had mis-read the
intentions of the Nazi battle fleet, mis-interpreted the decoded signals,
and abandoned the richly laden convoy of ships to certain destruciton by
bombers and submarines in the sub-zero waters of the Arctic.



Centuries-old publishing house Cassell & Co. published Irving's best-selling
narrative in 1967.



Their edition had at that time to omit certain well-kept secrets of World
War II. Even so the Navy struck back immediately at author Irving, himself
the son of a naval officer. Funded by naval officers, an ex-captain began
three years of bitter legal actions that made headlines in Britain and ended
with the book being banned all around the world, the author ordered to pay
the heaviest damages in British legal history, and publisher Cassell's forced
out of business; in the finest British naval tradition the captain too lost
nearly all he had in the battle. The Navy however sent a cheery telegram
of victory to Irving on the night the courts ordered the ban: "WE ARE
SPLICING THE MAINBRACE IN PORTSMOUTH TONIGHT" -- an extra ration of
rum for all hands.



Irving came back fighting -- "dismasted but not dismayed," as
he put it. The release of the Admiralty signals on Ultra -- reinstated in
this updated classic of naval history -- vindicates him. As Admiral Sir
Norman Denning, director of British Naval Intelligence, said when he first
read Irving's account: "This is the finest history of an Allied naval
operation I ever read."



From the Foreword in:

The Destruction of Convoy PQ-17

by David Irving

New York: St Martins Press. October 1989. 

Copyright David Irving 1987.



For the current IHR catalog, with a complete listing of books and audio
and video tapes, send two dollars to:



Institute For Historical Review

Post Office Box 2739

Newport Beach, California 92659



Send all questions and comments to ihrgreg@kaiwan.com



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From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Jun 30 16:46:19 PDT 1996
Article: 47232 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The first "denier" was a Buchenwald inmate
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:37:22 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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CC: Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk

Daniel Keren wrote:
> 
> Jeff  writes:
> 
> # Note: Paul Rassinier was the "father" of revisionism,
> 
> I recall jamie McCarthy posted something about one of the
> "fathers of revisionism".
> 
> This "father of revisionism" (FOR) was discussing the
> Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. Those in Birkenau were
> referred to as II,III,IV and V.
> 
> Then, the blithering FOR imbecile said something like "but
> whatever became of crematorium number I!? It has yet to
> be found!".
> 
> He didn't even know that the gas chamber in Auschwitz I
> (main camp) was described in this numbering system as
> Krema I.
> 
> This is like some "World War II expert" who never heard
> of Hiroshima.
> 
> I'm quite sure this imbecile was, indeed, Rassinier. Post
> e-mailed to Mr. McCarthy.


It also could have been that imbecile Rudolf Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz/Birkenau, who also 
numbered the four crematories at Birkenau from 1 to 4. Boy! The stupidity of some people!

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

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