The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Subject:      Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
From:         rich@c2.org (Rich Graves)
Date:         1996/07/05
Message-Id:   <4rk2bl$kk5@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>       During the American Revolution fighting took place for
>years.
[...]
>Some talk real democracy, others just use the
>word.

See, if you can ignore the parts in the middle, you'll see that Moran
speaks the truth.

Mr. Moran, how do you feel about Mr. Zundel's efforts to censor films
concerning the Holocaust?

 http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/censorship/
 http://www.nizkor.eye.net/features/z-open-letter/

Mr. Moran, how do you feel about Linda Thompson's barratrous attempts to
censor Nizkor?

 http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/t/thompson-linda/

Article 24028 of misc.activism.militia:
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 15:03:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: Book Review:  Dees & Ster
Lines: 242


Why does frankenchrist start a new thread when responding to a post?
Is it to make it difficult for people to refer back to the original
post, or does he just enjoy seeing his name listed as the author of
article 0 in the thread?
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

The following book review appears in the Aug/Sep 1996 issue of Reason
magazine. It is authored by David B. Kopel and is titled _The Militias
Are Coming_. Two books are reviewed;

_Gathering Storm: America's Militia Threat_, by Morris Dees with James
Corcoran, New York: Harper Collins, 254 pag, $24.

_A Force upon the Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics
of Hate_,by Kenneth S. Stern, New York: Simon & Schuster, 303 pages, $24.

The Reason Foundation is the copyright holder of the article and it is
reprinted here on m.a.m. with their permission.

This and any other article appearing in recent issues of Reason, may be
found at http://www.reasonmag.com/reason

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Adam Parfrey, author of an october 1994 story about the militia movement
in _The Village Voice_, became an instant militia "expert" after the april
1995 bombing in Oklahoma City. Major news organizations contacted him,
seeking a quote linking the militias to the bombing. When he suggested
there was no connection, reporters quickly lost interest. The mainstream
media's combination of certitude and ignorance was summed up by a
statement from a _Washington Post_ researcher who talked to Parfrey:"The
militias--whoever the fuck they are--are a ticking time bomb composed of
paranoid lunatics."

Many Americans, including many journalists who have written about militias,
have never met an actual militia member, just as most militia members have
never met an actual international banker. In a condition of ignorance, it
is possible for militia members to believe dark tales of an international
banking conspiracy that would be laughable to a person who knew inter-
national bankers from meeting them at Manhattan cocktail parties.
Conversely, well-educated Americans who know all about international
banking but know nothing about living on a farm in Idaho, may fall for
stupendous exaggerations about evil militia conspiracies. Much of what
Americans "know" about militias is based upon uncritical media repetition
of statements from activists who demonstrate that the militia movement does
not have a monopoly on paranoia and misinformation.

This problem is illustrated by a pair of books published shortly before the
first anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing: _Gathering Storm: America's
Militia Threat_, by Morris Dess of the Southern Poverty Law Center, and
_A Force upon the Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics of
Hate_, by Kenneth Stern of the American Jewish Committee. "The very future
of the United States is at risk, because of treason in our midst," warns a
militiaman quoted by Dees. The quote captures the apocalyptic exaggeration
of some militia leaders, but Dees himself is hardly less alarmist. He opens
his book with a paraphrase of the Gettysburg Address, observing that "we
are engaged in a great civil war" and wondering "whether [our] nation...can
long endure." Dees continues:"Unless checked," the militia movement "could
lead to widespread devastation or ruin."

The mastermind of the militia movement, according to Dees, is Ku Klux Klan
leader Louis Beam, Professor Moriarty to Dees' Sherlock Holmes. After the
federal assault on Idaho separatist Randy Weaver and his family in 1992,
Dees claims, Beam and a few other racists used the fear created by the 
incident to build the militia movement. (Beam and Dees are not the central
characters of Stern's book, but Stern does write that "[t]he most signifi-
cant precursor of the militias was the Ku Klux Klan.") Although even Dees'
statistics show that most militias are not run by racists, he considers
non-racist militia members dupes of Beam et al.

Unlike the Southern Poverty Law Center, I do not have "dossiers" on
thousands of suspected militia members and "militia sympathisers." Nor
do I have a staff of 10 people devoted to collecting information on
militias, or infiltrators placed in the militia movement. So there is
a great deal of material in Dees' book, and Stern's as well, that I
cannot authoritatively refute. Neither book has footnotes, which makes
verification of the claims all the more difficult. Still, some of the
charges are clearly false, while others consist of speculation or facts
presented out of context.

"Conspiracy reeks throughout this bloody murder," announced racist preacher
Pete Peters after the deaths of Randy Weaver's son and wife at Ruby Ridge,
Idaho. Dees and Stern believe the same about Oklahoma City. At an Estes
Park, Colorado, meeting following the Weaver incident, Dees reports,
"Plans were laid for a citizens' militia movement like none this country
has known. It's a movement that has already led to the most destructive
act of terrorism in our nation's history." Similar claims pervade the
direct-mail fundraising campaign run by Dees' organization. "Patriot
Underground Strikes in '95" is the headline for a special year-end report
from the Southern Poverty Law Center; right below the headline are pictures
of the Arizona train derailment and the Alfred P. Murrah Building in
Oklahoma City. There is no suspect in the Arizona train derailment, let
alone a "patriot" movement suspect. Nor has anyone in the patriot movement
been implicated in the Oklahoma City bombing. For that matter, there is no
sinister patriot "underground." The patriot movement--made up of nativist
grassroots citizens grups that are highly suspicious of federal power and
international finance--has public meetings, advertises in newspapers, and
communicates through newspapers and talk radio--not exactly tools of the
underground.

Yet Dees and Stern build their books around the claim that the militia/
patriot movements are unindicted co-conspirators in the Oklahoma City
murders. The link between accused bomber Timothy McVeigh and the militia
movement is based mainly on two pieces of information: First he and his
friend Terry Nichols attended two Militia of Michigan meetings--which,
significantly, they were told to leave because they were advocating 
violence. Second, allegedly Mark Koernke, a short-wave radio personality
who runs a mail-order business that sells militia gear, was seen with
someone who looks like McVeigh. In addition, a Michigan talk show host
supposedly said (he denies it) that the host's Rolodex listed McVeigh as
a contact for for Koernke. This evidence does not come remotely close to
showing that militia members encouraged McVeigh to do anything illegal,
let alone to perpetrate one of the most vicious mass murders in history.

Dees and Stern also cite circumstantial evidence. Dees says McVeigh
photocopied unspecified "paramilitary publications" at a copy center in
Arizona. "He would not have needed extra copies," Dees suggests, "unless,
maybe, he was supplying them to confederates." Or unless, maybe, he was
selling or giving away the material from his booth at gun shows, where he
was known to distribute literature. Another key piece of "evidence"
emphasized by Dees and Stern is that, after being arrested, McVeigh would
supply no information except his name. This conduct, the authors note, is
consistent with what Militia of Michigan members are told to do should
they be captured. True enough, but the authors overlook the fact that
instructions to supply only name, rank, and serial number are given to
members of the U.S. Army, in which McVeigh served. The Army also taught
McVeigh how to make and use explosives, and put him through a course of
psychological conditioning designed to destroy the normal reluctance to
kill another human being. Yet Stern and Dees, convinced that McVeigh's act
was caused by militia ideology, do not pause to consider whether government
may have played a role.

The authors ominously note that McVeigh read gun magazines, especially
_Soldier of Fortune_, but omit the fact that _Soldier of Fortune_, while
sharply critical of government conduct at Ruby Ridge and Waco, has published
articles debunking militia leaders' reports of foreign troops in the United
States and other claims that would tend to create an atmosphere of crisis.
McVeigh's main ideological source wasn't a gun magazine or any other form
of militia literature. McVeigh fell in love with _The Turner Diaries_, a
fictional, white-racist, anti-Semetic account of a race war in which the
FBI building is destroyed with a fertilizer bomb. Well before the militia
movement even existed, McVeigh was captivated with the book, urging his
friends to read it and selling it at a discount.

In another attempt to link the militia movement to McVeigh, Stern borrows
a funnel metaphor from Ken Toole, a leader of the anti-militia movement
in the Northwest: At the mouth are people concerned about tax and
regulatory issues; deeper, in the narrower part of the funnel, are the
conspiracy theorists; at the far end, out pops Timothy McVeigh. The
metaphor is emotionally powerful, but logically it amounts to guilt by
association, no more valid than a funnel with clean-water advocates at the
mouth, radical environmentalists in the middle, and the Unabomber popping
out the end.

Stern offers a quote attributed to Samuel Sherwood of the U.S. Militia
Association as further evidence of the movement's criminal tendencies: "Go
up and look legislators in the face, because some day you may be forced to
blow it off." The quote is a favorite of anti-militia activists and their
supporters in the media. But as Mark Tanner revealed in _Reason_ ("Extreme
Prejudice," July 1995), the quote is a fabrication. It was misreported by
a local journalist and repeated by _Wall Street Journal_ columnist Al Hunt,
thereby becoming part of official Washington's false consciousness. "In
the closing minutes of the meeting," Tanner wrote, "Sherwood made an
impassioned plea for using political action rather than violence in
correcting the wrongs that the members of the United States Militia
Association see in government. He suggested that if his listeners wanted
to grab a gun to shoot their legislators, they should first go look them
in the face and recognize that legislators are also American citizens who
are fathers, mothers, husbands, and wives. The audience not only understood
that he was arguing against violence, they applauded his remarks. Unlike
Journal columnist Hunt, I was actually at the meeting."

As the books build to their climaxes, they warn that more militia violence
is coming, though the evidence that there has already been a wave of militia
violence is tenuous. The centerpiece of the theory is the unsupported "link"
between militias and the Oklahoma City bombing. Several other crimes by
militia members are are detailed, supplemented by the elastic category of
crimes by "militia sympathizers." But even if we counted all alleged
"militia sympathisers" as actual militia members, the Southern Poverty Law
Center's data show that militia members perpetrate violent crimes at a per
capita rate far below that of the U.S. population as a whole. Certainly
there are criminals who belong to police departments and to Congress. But the
presence of a few criminals within a large class of law-abiding citizens is
hardly grounds for a "crackdown."

The prediction of militia terrorism grows out of speculation about the
psychology of militia members. "After a while," Dees writes, "angry loners
are likely to grow bored roaming around the woods and shooting at paper
targets ... Predicting when and where militia terrorists will strike next
is no easier than guessing when and where the next whirlwind of dust will
form. Unfortunately, all that seems certain is that the devils will strike
again." Stern warns, "Whenever an ideology justifies baby killing--at
the fringes of the fringes--that is an especially strong danger signal."
Maybe so, but Stern never identifies a militia ideologue--even on the
fringes of the fringes--who defends baby killing.

Dees is more careful than Stern to emphasize that most militia members are
not racists, but his book still includes some broad smears. The first page
of the photo section in the center of the book shows the homocidal leader
of the racist Christian Identity religion and the founder of the Order, a
neo-Nazi group. The heading is "Martyrs of the Modern Militia Movement."
Stern occasionally acknowledges that not all militia members are neo-Nazis,
but his stock phrases, such as "the hate of militias," leave the opposite
impression.

Stern tars not only the militia and patriot movements, but all critics of
big government. After the 1994 elections, he found that "the vitriolic
antifederal sentiments of some of these newly elected officials" differed
"in detail but not in flavor" from the ideas of racist gangs. Like other
critics of the militias, Stern uses charges of anti-Semitism and racism to
vilify opponents and delegitimize political stands he does not like, much
as the epithet "Communist sympathizer" was used to attack advocates of
civil rights legislation in the 1950s and '60s.

"[W]henever Americans have talked of 'states' rights' or 'county supremacy,'
that is a cover for bigotry," Stern insists. It's true that the cause of
states' rights has sometimes been used as a cover for bigotry, as in the
defense of Southern white supremacist policies in the 1950s. But to argue
that all proponents of states' rights are racist is patently absurd. The
10th Amendment, ratified by both houses of Congress and by three-quarters
of state legislatures, guarantees states' rights. Were all of its supporters
motivated by bigotry? Were all the Supreme Court justices who vindicated the
10th Amendment in _New York v. United States_, holding that states cannot be
ordered to enter into nuclear waste storage agreements, likewise bigots? Is
Dennis Hennigan--the Handgun Control, Inc. attorney who argues that the
Second Amendment guarantees a "state's right" to have a militia, and whom
Stern quotes liberally--a racist too?

In the militia movement, Dees observes, "rhetoric is routinely used to
demonize an opponent, legitimize insensitive stereotypes, and promote
prejudice." Stern notes that Linda Thompson's misleading documentary about
Waco offers "a model of conspiratorial 'logic' designed to grab audiences
who, if they accepted the premises and did not question the sleight-of-hand,
easily could [be] convinced." Together, the two descriptions nicely sum up
the weaknesses of these books.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


--
--


Article 25329 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: jmk@worldnet.att.net (Joseph M. Knapp)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 14:03:06 GMT
Message-ID: <837439386$4174@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Book Review:  Dees & Ster
Lines: 132


Mark T Pitcavage  wrote:
>Joseph M. Knapp  wrote:
>>Hmmm. Lapsing into semantics are you? You at least have identified the section
>>of my post that should make you the most nervous, given your untenable
>>position. Let me add what you deleted:
>>
>>              Formerly With Militia
>>
>>    About half the present units, Mr. DePugh says, were previously
>>    organized local lay militia groups that affiliated with the
>>    Minutemen.
>>
>
>I'm not sure why you would think my position is untenable; it is simply the 
>truth.  The semantics are important, because they illustrate a key difference 
>between the Posse Comitatus and any other right-wing predecessors.
 
Key for you maybe. But as far as I can tell, you are quite alone in your
denial that the Minutemen were direct precursors of the Posse and modern
so-called militias. Alone.

You may have access to another book by James Coates, _Armed and Dangerous:
The Rise of the Survivalist Right_, first published in 1987 and reissued
last year. Coates is an investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune
and covered the Alan Berg assassination by the Order, and the raid on
the Branch Davidians.

He says:

	The Posse's conspiracy theory was derived from an earlier group
	of gun-toting haters from the 1960s who had called themselves
	Minutemen, after the colonial American patriots who had taken
	up arms and wrested the nation from its British overlords. [...]

	The publicity-seeking Minutemen disappeared from the scene as
	quickly as they had surfaced, but their ideology survives in the
	form of the Posse Comitatus.

There's much more in this book about Minutemen (and DePugh) connections to
Christian Identity groups and the like. Which brings me to another point,
which I think illustrates your irrepressible urge to lapse into semantics
when pressed. I made an off-hand comment that Christian Identity ideology
is endemic in modern so-called militia groups, which statement you jumped
on, with mock incredulity. Yet I see in one of your own pieces, covering
a memorial service for fallen Chief Justice of the Ohio Common Law
Supreme Court, Hizzoner Michael Hill, you make the following statement:

	Christian Identity is a small, fragmented sect whose beliefs
	permeate much of the patriot movement.

Well. I'm only left with the impression that I have no idea where you
are coming from. My only guess is that perhaps you left the Minutemen
out of your thesis and are locked into that position, causing you to
become combative on all points for some reason.

>The Posse 
>was strongly attracted to hidden history, and believed that the true nature of 
>the federal government was being kept hidden from American patriots.  By going 
>back and looking at obscure laws or statutes (not, unfortunately, actually 
>bothering to research their origin; simply looking at the phraseology), one 
>could determine the true nature of the government.  On the civil side, this 
>resulted in things like the common law court movement, based on the notion of 
>"Our One Supreme Court," a hidden type of court that was really the -true- 
>court guranteed by the Constititution, as well as a completely misunderstood 
>interpretation as to what "common law" actually meant.  It also resulted in 
>notions regarding "sovereign citizens," the "missing 13th Amendment," and "the 
>committee of the states."  This last was the most interesting, though it has 
>died down.  The creation of William Potter Gale, easily one of the most 
>imaginative of the pseudo-historical theorists of the movement, it postulated 
>that the Articles of Confederation had never ceased being part of the law of 
>the land, and that one of the articles, which stated that when Congress was not
>in session there could be a sort of executive committee composed of members of 
>each of the states which could perform needed functions.  Gale proposed calling
>together the Committee of the States to fix what was wrong.

Good stuff, and while I can't say for sure the Minutemen engaged in such
lawyerly mental masturbation, I wouldn't doubt it.
 
>The term "militia" also has a generic meaning (as in "Druse Militia"); that is 
>how it is being used here.  There was no sense at the time of any sort of 
>"militia movement," nor did people at the time use any of the Posse ideology 
>regarding governments or militias.

Nope. Sorry. DePugh's term was used to directly apply to groups such as the
Sons of Liberty, the Paul Revere Associated Minutemen (PRAY), the Counter-
Insurgency Council, the Christian Soldiers, the California Rangers, the
Illinois Internal Security Force, the Loyal Order of Mountain Men, and
any number of conspiratorial nutcase militia groups such as we see today.

>>Thinking back over the supposed leaders of the current militia movement [sic],
>>I more and more like the idea that they are opportunistic con artists for
>>whom the "leaderless resistance" concept offers plausible deniability when
>>they're asked for credentials. I'm thinking of Linda "Buy My Tape of the
>>Space Aliens Torching Rancho Apocalypse" Thompson, John Trochman, Inc.,
>>and so on.
>
>I think Linda Thompson genuinely believed all that.  She is one of the most 
>conspiratorially minded people I have ever had the opportunity to communicate 
>with.  It is remarkable that in almost every major court case she has been 
>involved with, no matter what its nature, she alleges conspiracy.  And that is 
>even outside her dealings with the militia movement.

Maybe so, but she must have profited from her "belief" in her own hokey
tapes.

>>That seems like a good rule for designation as neo-militia--the groups
>>outside even the most casual stamp of officialdom.
>
>I coined the term "neo-militia" originally to distinguish them from the 
>historical (and official) militia.

Ok. That's what I was trying to get at. It's a matter of definition. So
by definition, neo-militia groups are illegitimate.

>You see, many of the shortwave "patriot" programs are actually fully sponsored 
>by gold and silver coin dealers.  Mark Koernke, to give but one example, was 
>fully bankrolled by one of them.  I tend to think of them as the ultimate 
>cynics, giving money to these guys to stir up despair, paranoia, and fear, 
>knowing that they as dealers in precious metals will profit thereby.  Do they 
>believe a word of it?  I don't think so.  They are just interested in 
>exchanging gold and silver for FRN at a favorable exchange rate.

I wouldn't doubt, although I have no evidence, that Viking International
is a paper organization created by the radio hucksters.

Another good one I heard was on a JBS program where they would send you
a $2 1963 "US Note" for $5 or something like that. Not a bad markup.
The notes were supposed to be evidence that JFK was going to fight the
international bankers so they had him killed.

Joe


Article 25330 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 22:03:04 GMT
Message-ID: <837381784$20471@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Roots of the militia movement: The Minutemen
Lines: 119


In article <837351243$14404@atype.com>,
Joseph M. Knapp  wrote:
>
>Mark T Pitcavage  wrote:
>>Joseph M. Knapp  wrote:
>>>Hill allowed that the movement may have been larger than met the eye.
>>>This was wise, for as it turned out the Minutemen (tm) would be around
>>>for at least another seven years. He also noted the connection to
>>>unorganized militias:
>>
>>The term "unorganized militia" is a technical statutory term not used in
>>connection with right-wing paramilitary units until William Potter Gale came
up
>>with it while involved with the Posse.
>
>Hmmm. Lapsing into semantics are you? You at least have identified the section
>of my post that should make you the most nervous, given your untenable
>position. Let me add what you deleted:

I'm not sure why you would think my position is untenable; it is simply the 
truth.  The semantics are important, because they illustrate a key difference 
between the Posse Comitatus and any other right-wing predecessors.  The Posse 
was strongly attracted to hidden history, and believed that the true nature of 
the federal government was being kept hidden from American patriots.  By going 
back and looking at obscure laws or statutes (not, unfortunately, actually 
bothering to research their origin; simply looking at the phraseology), one 
could determine the true nature of the government.  On the civil side, this 
resulted in things like the common law court movement, based on the notion of 
"Our One Supreme Court," a hidden type of court that was really the -true- 
court guranteed by the Constititution, as well as a completely misunderstood 
interpretation as to what "common law" actually meant.  It also resulted in 
notions regarding "sovereign citizens," the "missing 13th Amendment," and "the 
committee of the states."  This last was the most interesting, though it has 
died down.  The creation of William Potter Gale, easily one of the most 
imaginative of the pseudo-historical theorists of the movement, it postulated 
that the Articles of Confederation had never ceased being part of the law of 
the land, and that one of the articles, which stated that when Congress was not
in session there could be a sort of executive committee composed of members of 
each of the states which could perform needed functions.  Gale proposed calling
together the Committee of the States to fix what was wrong.

On the military side, Gale popularized the notion of "unorganized militias."  
Knowing that paramilitary forces had met with many legal problems, he suggested
that an obscure provision in federal code which mentioned another type of 
militia other than the National Guard--the unorganized militia, created in 
response to opposition to militia service--actually provided legal authority 
for people to form their own paramilitary forces which would be outside the 
bounds of federal law (or control).  This was entirely in keeping with the 
Posse's conspiratorial ideology regarding history and law.  DePugh never had 
anything like this at all.


>
>              Formerly With Militia
>
>    About half the present units, Mr. DePugh says, were previously
>    organized local lay militia groups that affiliated with the
>    Minutemen.
>
>Yep. There it is. haha!

The term "militia" also has a generic meaning (as in "Druse Militia"); that is 
how it is being used here.  There was no sense at the time of any sort of 
"militia movement," nor did people at the time use any of the Posse ideology 
regarding governments or militias.


>Thinking back over the supposed leaders of the current militia movement [sic],
>I more and more like the idea that they are opportunistic con artists for
>whom the "leaderless resistance" concept offers plausible deniability when
>they're asked for credentials. I'm thinking of Linda "Buy My Tape of the
>Space Aliens Torching Rancho Apocalypse" Thompson, John Trochman, Inc.,
>and so on.

I think Linda Thompson genuinely believed all that.  She is one of the most 
conspiratorially minded people I have ever had the opportunity to communicate 
with.  It is remarkable that in almost every major court case she has been 
involved with, no matter what its nature, she alleges conspiracy.  And that is 
even outside her dealings with the militia movement.


>That seems like a good rule for designation as neo-militia--the groups
>outside even the most casual stamp of officialdom.

I coined the term "neo-militia" originally to distinguish them from the 
historical (and official) militia.

>>Now you have said something which is very much worth discussing.  The role
>>played by dealers in precious metals in propping up the so-called patriot
>movement in order to profit thereby from the gullible is one that is extremely
>>important and discussed hardly at all in the media.
>

>I guess it's a natural path to take under the dictum "follow the money."
>The precious metals (actually in this case coins because they can't hope for
>much more than nickels and dimes from this crowd) pitch is common
>with historical right wing, apocalyptic, survivalist groups over the years.
>I don't know how the total cash flow breaks down, but other candidates
>for their main "action" might be survivalist supplies, literature and
>other media, and donations to quasi-religious outfits. I've heard pitches
>for all these on militia nut radio, WWCR.
>
>But maybe the gold and silver coin come-ons are given the most play.
>One can hear about two hours of them every night during prime time on
>WWCR, during the Liberty Lobby's program, the JBS program, and "Protecting
>Your Wealth." The sponsor which deals in these gold and silver transactions,
>Viking International, has a nice Aryan ring to it I think. One needn't waste
>much time listening to this stuff--tune in on any random date and it seems
>like a replay. In fact, it seems that the radio must be picking up a
>broadcast from 1960. They're fossilized.

You see, many of the shortwave "patriot" programs are actually fully sponsored 
by gold and silver coin dealers.  Mark Koernke, to give but one example, was 
fully bankrolled by one of them.  I tend to think of them as the ultimate 
cynics, giving money to these guys to stir up despair, paranoia, and fear, 
knowing that they as dealers in precious metals will profit thereby.  Do they 
believe a word of it?  I don't think so.  They are just interested in 
exchanging gold and silver for FRN at a favorable exchange rate.


Article 26036 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (0611fb24f575e1269eeef0a6af4ff2be)
References: <837620285$15389@atype.com> <837703121$21225@atype.com> <837785884$ <837832705$3356@atype.com>
From: horseman@indirect.com (Scott Alan Malcomson)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Organization: none
Return-Path: news@globe.indirect.com
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 96 5:33:47 GMT
Message-ID: <837840827$4310@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Composing a Michigan Militia Corps FAQ
Lines: 23


Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: Scott Alan Malcomson  wrote:
: >Gee, sounds like you get your news from sources that don't bother to
: >update themselves. Even *I* knew during the Freemen standoff that when
: >Trochmann showed up, he was no longer a member of the Militia of Montana.
: >He came in as an independent observer/advisor for the FBI. Wouldn't be
: >the first time the press didn't bother to update its source material.

: Really?  Is that why Trochmann issued "stand-down" orders?  I repeat, who do 
: you think is their new commander?

And Linda Thompson "issued orders" for the Militias to march on 
Washington, too. Which were also ignored, since she has no unit and no 
command capacity whatsoever...just like John. As for their new commander, 
I told you once, it's a woman whose name escapes me at the moment. And 
speaking of which, you NEVER asked who their new commander was...until 
just now, *you* still thought it was the Trochmanns. Therefore, you 
aren't "repeating" yourself at all...unless your skull has an echo. -;>



---LCD


Article 26125 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (d24fc370986d9806febb2f4fb5408c67)
References: <837620285$15389@atype.com> <837785884$ <837832705$3356@atype.com>
From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 96 17:04:27 GMT
Message-ID: <837882267$7567@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Composing a Michigan Militia Corps FAQ
Lines: 26


In article <837840827$4310@atype.com>,
Scott Alan Malcomson  wrote:
>
>Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>: Scott Alan Malcomson  wrote:
>: >Gee, sounds like you get your news from sources that don't bother to
>: >update themselves. Even *I* knew during the Freemen standoff that when
>: >Trochmann showed up, he was no longer a member of the Militia of Montana.
>: >He came in as an independent observer/advisor for the FBI. Wouldn't be
>: >the first time the press didn't bother to update its source material.
>
>: Really?  Is that why Trochmann issued "stand-down" orders?  I repeat, who do

>: you think is their new commander?
>
>And Linda Thompson "issued orders" for the Militias to march on
>Washington, too. Which were also ignored, since she has no unit and no
>command capacity whatsoever...just like John. As for their new commander,
>I told you once, it's a woman whose name escapes me at the moment. And
>speaking of which, you NEVER asked who their new commander was...until
>just now, *you* still thought it was the Trochmanns. Therefore, you
>aren't "repeating" yourself at all...unless your skull has an echo. -;>

I still do think it is the Trochmanns, and will continue to do so until 
presented with proof.  If they are not in command, they still act like it...


Article 26939 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (fa1f4954246c72004c38b2cf317b354a)
References: <838170183$6200@atype.com> <838171115$6289@atype.com> <838172908$6477@atype.com> <838180091$6832@atype.com>
From: jmk@worldnet.att.net (Joseph M. Knapp)
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Return-Path: newsadm@mtinsc01.worldnet.att.net
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 23:33:03 GMT
Message-ID: <838251183$10332@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Act Now or die
Lines: 65


Richard Glen Cheek   wrote:
>Joseph M. Knapp wrote:
>> Well boys! Nothing would be better than for you to model yourselves after
>> Farrakhan's Nation of Islam. Great idea!
>
>Oh, so if one respects someone's success in one small arena that means one 
>embraces everything that person represents? If I say I admire Stalin's 
>ability to organise...

Another one of your heros! Maybe instead of a Million Man March you could
hold a Million Man Last Stand, in honor of Stalingrad, Rancho Apocalypse
in Waco, or the Freemen holdout in Montana. That actually
would be more appropriate to militialoonery. The marches, e.g., that
of Field Marshal Linda Thompson, planned for--what was it--early 1995,
tend to fall flat with a group of disorganized paranoids. It only
tends to highlight the divisions in the so-called movement, and ruin
all the PR about a unified force.

>> And not inappropriately. Farrakhan's event was dubbed the "Million Man
>> March," not coincidentally perhaps recalling a 1950s McCarthyite
>> group "Ten Million Men Mobilizing for Justice." According to Russ
>> Bellant in _Old Nazis, the New Right and the Reagan Administration_:
>> 
>>       John Trevor was a leader of a group, Ten Million Americans
>>    Mobilizing for Justice, attempting to prevent the censure of Joe
>>    McCarthy. Its leadership represented a Who's Who of American
>>    anti-Semitism. [f-94] At their 1954 rally for McCarthy, a female
>>    photographer taking pictures of the special guest section for
>>

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