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From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Mark Van Alstine)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:17:15 -0700
[responding to Cliff Swiger]
[Swiger] "Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas chamber at Dachau which is in Germany. "
That's Wiesenthal, Mr. Swiger. And in regard to your specious claim above, the Simon Wiesenthal Center states the following:
"The Nazis classified their many hundreds of concentration camps on their basis of their primary function. In a very real sense, all were death camps because the death of the inmates, whether through overwork, starvation/disease, or outright murder, was ultimately expected.
"Those sites, however, which functioned as extermination centers (Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno), were specially equipped for the gassing of hundreds of thousands of victims each (millions altogether). All of these camps were located in Poland, and for good reason. Poland had far more Jews than Germany and the rest of Western Europe combined. The Nazis also felt that the relative remoteness of Poland's rural areas would also minimize reports of mass murder taking place there."
Note the reference to "extermination centers" and not "extermination gas chamber[s]," Mr. Swiger? You are clearly in err when you imply that the issue is in regards to "extermination gas chamber[s]" rather than extermination camps
And what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center have to say about extermination centers (i.e. death camps)?
"A death (or mass murder) camp is a concentration camp with special apparatus specifically designed for systematic murder. Six such camps existed: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka. All were located in Poland."
Note the reference to "mass murder" and "special apparatus specifically designed for systematic murder." The homicidal gas chambers at Dachau were never used for systematic mass murder, Mr. Swiger. And when comparing hokmicidal gassinf operartions at Dachau to the the six death camps on Poland, Mr. Swiger, relatively few people were killed in the gas chamber at Dachau. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Swiger, Dachau was not an extermination camp and the Simon Wiesenthal Center never claimed it was.
[Swiger] "If it took 4 hours to unload the gas chamber in a best case you'd only be able to send 1500 bodies to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near 12,000 as is claimed. "
Mr. Swiger, you seemed to have "confused" Barracke X at Dachau with the Kremas at Birkemau! Why is that? Ignorance or duplicity?
The issue of how many people could be gassed is somewhat misleading, Mr. Swiger, as it the bottleneck to the gassing operations at Birkenau was the incineration of the victims. According to an estimate made by the Auschwitz SS the number of corpses that could be incinerated in the four Kremas every 24 hours was 4,416. However, by overloadeding the furnaces the number of victims incinerated was increased to perhaps as much as 7,000-8,000 every 24 hours. (cf. Gutman, Anatomy, pp.165-166,171,173,180.)
Of course, with the disabling of Krema IV in late 1943, the incineration capacity was reduced by about 1,500 corspes per 24 hours. This meant that the incineration capacity at Birkenau would have been approximately 5,500-6,500 victims per day. This caused unacceptable problems during Aktion Ho"ss and incineration pits were used to take care of the "overflow." The incineration pits, in addition to the three Kremas, could handle some 10,000 victims per day. (One set of pits augmented Krema IV [5,000 per day] and another handled the gassing victims of bunker 2 [5,000 per day]). (cf. Ibid., pp.173,234.)
This would mean that the number of victims that could be killed _and_ disposed of per day at Birkenau could have been as high as 16,000 or so.
[Swiger] "...Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally asinine."
Then, Mr. Swiger, I'm sure you won't mind posting, for example, the heat transfer equations, in specific regard to the Topf tripple-muffle furnace, that proves that incinerating "4 or 5 corpses" in 25-30 minutes is "totally asinine?"
[Swiger] "State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate just one corpse. Consult a crematory and find out for yourself. "
Excellent advice, Mr. Swiger! Too bad you seem to have not taken it yourself. From the Internet Cremation Society FAQ:
"The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. That is because the retort already has a high internal temperature at the beginning of the second cremation."
Source: http://www.cremation.org/faq.shtml#At what temperature
Please note, Mr. Swiger, that "high capacity machines take less than one hour." Considering the operating temperatures, incineration times, and number of muffles etc, the Topf triple-muffle furnace was indeed a "high capacity machine."
Please _also_ keep in mind, Mr. Swiger, that there are (and were) laws that prohibit commercial cremtoria from co-mingling the remains of the deceased. This means that the civilian cremation process allows for _only_ one corpse to be cremated at a time in the muffle. Such restrictions, however, did _not_ apply to SS concentration camp crematoria. This is _why_ furnaces were equiped with multiple muffles and _why_ more than one corpse was charged per muffle. Multiple muffle furnaces, like the Topf furnaces, in addition to their high capacity, were more economical in the SS concentration camp environment than single muffle furnaces. (cf. Ibid. p.139.)
[Swiger] "But,this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does it Chuck? Sweet dreams."
_What_ "technical and mathematical information" would that be, Mr. Swiger. So far _you_ have been long on wind and short on math. Typical denier: all bark and no bite.
For those interested in proof of the Nazi Mr. Swiger's ignorant Holocaust denial, vile Nazi beliefs, absolute intellectual dishonesty, and his outright lies, please visit: