Eighty-Seventh Day:
Thursday, 21st March, 1946
[Page 306] "On 6th August, 1940, when the order for the organisation
of the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler - Adolf Hitler
Bodyguard - was issued, the Fuehrer stated the principles
regarding the necessity for the Waffen S.S. as summed up
below:
The Greater German Reich in its final form will include
within its frontiers, only those national groups which
from the very beginning will be well disposed towards the
Reich. It is therefore necessary to maintain outside the
Reich proper a State military police capable in any
situation of representing and imposing the authority of
the Reich within.
This task can be carried out only by a State police
composed of men of best German blood and wholeheartedly
pledged to the ideology on which the Greater German Reich
is founded. Only such a formation will resist subversive
influences even in critical times. Such a formation,
proud of its purity, will never fraternise with the
proletariat and with the underworld which undermines the
fundamental idea. In our future Greater German Reich, a
police corps will have the necessary authority over the
other members of the community only if it is trained
along military lines. Our people are so military-minded
as a result of glorious achievements in war
[Page 307]
It is therefore necessary that this State police proves
its worth and sacrifices its blood at the front, in
closed formations, in the same way as every unit of the
Armed Forces. Having returned home, after having proved
themselves in the field in the ranks of the Army, the
units of the Waffen S.S. will possess the authority to
execute their tasks as State police.
This employment of the Waffen S.S. for internal purposes
is just as much in the interests of the Wehrmacht itself.
We must never again allow the conscripted German
Wehrmacht to be used against its fellow-countrymen,
weapon in hand, in critical situations at home. Such
action is the beginning of the end. A State which has to
resort to such methods is no longer in a position to use
its Armed Forces against an enemy from without, and
thereby gives itself up.
There are deplorable examples of this in our history. In
future, the Wehrmacht is to be used solely against the
foreign enemies of the Reich.
In order to ensure that the men in the units of the
Waffen S.S. are always of a high quality, the recruitment
into the units must be limited. The Fuehrer's idea of
this limitation is that the units of the Waffen S.S.
should generally not exceed 5 to 10 per cent. of the
peacetime strength of the Army."
A. I am absolutely convinced that he did say that, but that
does not contradict my statement.
Q. Now, I just want you, while we are on the S.S., to look
at a note which is Document 729-D and will be Exhibit GB
281. It is on the conversation between you and the Duce in
the Palazzo Venezia on 23rd October, 1942. At that time you
were still in good favour with the Fuehrer and still
retained your power; is that right?
I will read it: It is Page 35, paragraph 1:
Q. It is Page 35, paragraph 1, but I will find it for you if
you have any difficulty. I think it is marked, and it begins
"The Reichsmarschall -" Can you find it?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. I will start again if I may:
[Page 308]
A. Yes, certainly.
Q. This expresses correctly your views on how war against
Partisans should be carried out?
A. I have transmitted this.
Just one second, please. May I ask what the number of this
document is, please ?
Q. Yes, I will give it again, D-729, and it becomes Exhibit
GB 291.
Now, I just want you to help me on one other matter on these
Organisations. You will remember that in answer, I think, to
Dr. Servatius, you made some remarks about the Leadership
Corps. Do you remember that? I just want you to have them in
mind.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, will you look at the document which will be
presented to you, Document D-728, Exhibit GB 282. This is a
document from the Office of the Gau Leadership for Hessen-
Nassau. I am sorry; there is a reference to an order of the
Party Chancellery dated 10th February, 1945, and its subject
is "Action by the Party to be Taken for Keeping the German
Population in Check until the End of the War." It is signed
by Sprenger, Gauleiter and Commissar for Reich Defence.
A. The date is 15th March, 1945, is that right?
Q. I am grateful to you. I knew it was just after 10th
March. I have not got it in my copy, but if you say so I
will accept it.
A. 1945.
Q. Yes.
(1) Every German must be subjected to a strict
investigation as to his political reliability and
firmness of purpose.
(2) If in the course of this investigation weaklings are
found, i.e., people who perhaps think or might think that
we are losing the war, or that the best thing would be to
stop fighting, etc., these people are to be reinspired,
and imbued with new faith in Adolf Hitler.
(3) If people are found who spread the rumour that we
have lost the war or are about to lose it, this is to be
countered with all available means. The Kreisleiters will
have these people reported to them and will ask the
Gestapo to arrest them, if the nature of the rumour
warrants this.
I consider an occasional arrest or the transfer of some
people to concentration camps to be the best method for
the elimination of such rumourmongers.
(4) The Ortsgruppenleiter must in any circumstances keep
all Germans in check and see to it that all of them keep
a stiff upper lip to the end because, if courage fails
and hatred of the enemy abates on the home front, we
shall lose the war.
(5) It is clear to me that our enemies will also be able
to cross the Rhine and enter our Gau, but they will not
conquer the whole of Greater Germany and above all not
National Socialism.
(6) The Kreisleiters are given strict and secret orders
to withdraw, on the approach of the enemy, to the centre
of Greater Germany. All files,
[Page 308]
The second paragraph deals with the work and jobs for Party
members. But I would like you to look at 3 and 4:
(4) Food supply. The Fuehrer has again stressed that the
special weekly food ration cards are to be used in strict
secrecy and that the supplies are always to be bought at
different places. In future the cards will be distributed
by the Gauleiter.
There will shortly be an increase in rations for Party
leaders, namely:
Meat, approximately 1,250 grammes, and fat, approximately
500 grammes.
Ortsgruppenleiters who are not self-supporting may also
apply to the Kreisleitung. I again point out the need for
strict secrecy."
THE WITNESS: I was going to raise the same objection. It is
not an original, for it says at the top, "copy," and there
is no original signature, but only the typewritten words
"Sprenger, Gauleiter" at the bottom.
DR. STAHMER: For instance, the expression
"Gerichtlichkeiten" is used. This is an expression
completely unusual and unknown in the German language, and I
cannot imagine that an official document originating from a
Gauleiter could contain such a word.
THE WITNESS: I can draw your attention to yet another point
showing that this is evidently not an original document. If
there had been an increase in meat or fat rations, I would
have heard something about it. Not a single word of these
two documents is known to me. It does not bear a rubber
stamp either, the whole thing is typewritten, including the
signatures. Therefore, I cannot accept this document.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: This is a file copy which, to the
best of my knowledge, was captured at the office of the Gau
Leader. It was sent to us by the British Army of the Rhine.
I shall make inquiries about it, but it purports to be a
file copy and I have put the original document which we
have, which is a file copy, to the witness.
(A short pause.)
[Page 310]
BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE:
Q. Witness, I want you to deal with the sentence in
paragraph 6, "the administration, enlargement, installations
and deterrent tasks in the concentration camps must be
destroyed at all costs, Also the extermination of some
families, etc. These files must under no circumstances fall
into the hands of the enemy, since they are, after all,
secret orders by the Fuehrer."
Now, this paragraph is certainly directed to all
administrative levels down to the Kreisleiters, county
leaders of the Nazi Party, and it assumes they knew all
about the running of concentration camps. Are you telling
the Tribunal that you, who up to 1943 were the second man in
the Reich, knew nothing about concentration camps?
A. First of all, I want to say once more that I do not
accept this document and that its whole wording is unknown
to me and that this paragraph appears unusual to me. I did
not know anything about what took place and the methods used
in the concentration camps later, when I was no longer in
charge.
Q. Let me remind you of the evidence that has been given
before this Court, that as far as Auschwitz alone is
concerned, 4,000,000 people were exterminated. Do you
remember that?
A. This I have heard as a statement here, but I consider it
in no way proved - that figure, I mean.
Q. If you do not consider it proved, let me remind you of
the affidavit of Hoettl, who was Deputy Group Leader of the
Foreign Section, of the Security Section of Amt IV of the
R.S.H.A. He says that approximately 4,000,000 Jews were
killed in the concentration camps, while an additional
2,000,000 met death in other ways. Assume that these figures
- one is a Russian figure, the other a German - assume they
are even 50 per cent. correct, assume it was 2,000,000 and
1,000,000, are you telling this Tribunal that a Minister
with your power in the Reich could remain ignorant that that
was going on?
A. This I maintain, and the reason for this is that these
things were kept secret from me. I might add that, in my
opinion, not even the Fuehrer knew the extent of what was
going on.
This is also explained by the fact that Himmler kept all
these matters very secret. We were never given figures or
any other details.
Q. But, witness, had you not access to the foreign Press,
the Press Department in your Ministry, to foreign
broadcasts? You see, there is evidence that altogether, when
you take the Jews and other people, something like
10,000,000 people have been done to death in cold blood,
apart from those killed in battle. Something like 10,000,000
people. Do you say that you never saw or heard from the
foreign Press, in broadcasts, that this was going on?
A. First of all, the figure 10,000,000 is not established in
any way. Secondly, throughout the war I did not read the
foreign Press, because I considered it nothing but
propaganda. Thirdly, though I had the right to listen to
foreign broadcasts I never did so, simply because I did not
want to listen to propaganda. Neither did I listen to home
propaganda.
Only during the last four days of the war did I - and this I
could prove - listen to a foreign broadcasting station for
the first time.
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(Part 5 of 10)
[SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE continues his cross examination of HERMANN WILHELM GORING] "The Reichsmarschall then described Germany's method in
fighting the Partisans. To begin with, all livestock and
foodstuffs were taken away from the areas concerned so as
to deny the Partisans all sources of supply."
A. Just a second, please. Where is this?
"The Reichsmarschall then described Germany's method in
fighting the Partisans. To begin with, all livestock and
foodstuffs were taken away from the areas concerned, so
as to deny the Partisans all sources of supply. Men and
women were taken away to labour camps, the children to
children's camps, and the villages burnt down. It was by
the use of these methods that the railways in the vast
wooded areas of Bialowiza had been safeguarded. Whenever
attacks occurred, the entire male population of the
villages were lined up on one side and the women on the
other. The women were told that all the men would be shot
unless they (the women) pointed out which men did not
belong to the village. In order to save their men, the
women always pointed out the non-residents. Germany had
found that, generally speaking, it was not easy to get
soldiers to carry out such measures. Members of the Party
discharged this task much more harshly
Now, is that a correct description?
"I request the Kreisleiters to discuss the following with
the Ortsgruppenleiters at the next official discussion,
and at the same time draw attention to the need for
secrecy and drastic methods.
Now, the other page is to the Kreisleiters, the county
leaders, and is a discussion about measures to be carried
out. The first deals with the people who have tuberculosis
and heart diseases, and prevention of producing families. I
am not going to read that in full.
"(3) Gerichtlichkeiten (legal proceedings). No Party
member may be brought before a court. In case of criminal
proceedings, these are to be conducted by the
Kreisleitung. Party members are to be got off in all
circumstances, even if they are guilty. The reputation of
the Party must in no circumstances be harmed publicly, as
the Party is and remains the model. It is always the Non-
Party members who are to be accused. Foreigners must
always be given the impression of a solid Party which can
never be split and whose leadership corps and Party
members are unity itself.
DR. STAHMER (counsel for defendant Goering): I must object
to the use of this document, since I cannot recognise that
it is genuine. I have not yet seen the original, and the
doubts as to its being genuine are due to the fact that
expressions are used which are most unusual in the German
language.