Eighty-Eighth Day:
Friday, 22nd March, 1946 [Page 350]
Therefore, we demand for ourselves the same rights as the
others possess." [Page 351]
I think I can omit the first two questions. The third
question is:
'Every German Government would consider the following
matters as the most constituent part of its policy:
(a) The incorporation of Austria and the Sudetenland into
Germany;
[Page 352]
A. Yes.
Question 4. Did you answer thereupon: 'But, I hope
without war'?
A. I said that His Majesty's Government wanted all
questions affecting Germany and her neighbours settled by
peaceful methods. I did not otherwise discuss those
questions.
Question 5. Did Goering answer thereupon:
'That depends very much upon England. England would be
able to contribute much to the peaceful solution of this
question. I do not want war either for these reasons, but
these questions have to be settled under all
circumstances.'
A. Yes."
THE PRESIDENT (Interposing): Does that purport to be a
verbatim account of what the defendant Goering said? Did he
refer to himself in the third person, "Goering does not want
a war," meaning "I do not want a war"?
DR. STAHMER: He did not want a war either. England would be
able to contribute much to the peaceful solution of this
question. He does not want war either for these reasons. He,
i.e., Goering, does not want war either, but these questions
have to be settled under all circumstances.
This is, of course, indirect speech. In direct speech it
would be "I, Goering, do not want war, but the questions
have to be settled under all circumstances."
The next questions refer to Dahlerus. Question 15, which is
the question put to Halifax, is also of importance in my
opinion:
THE PRESIDENT: You are putting in these originals, are you?
DR. STAHMER: Yes, indeed.
In that statement from Dr. Uiberreither, dated 27th
February, 1946, at Page 36 in Document Book 2, your Honour,
it says:
A few weeks later - it may have been towards the end of
June or the beginning of July, 1938 - the former Field-
Marshal Hermann Goering summoned all Gauleiters of the
German Reich to Karinhall.
He there delivered quite a long address to the
Gauleiters, describing the political situation as it was
at the time, and discussing in detail the purpose and
significance of the Four-Year Plan.
Field-Marshal Goering first pointed out that other
countries had little understanding of the political
developments in Germany, and that consequently there
existed the danger of Germany being encircled. Directing
German foreign policy was in consequence a difficult
task. Therefore, we should endeavour to strengthen
Germany from the economic
[Page 353]
After that, Field-Marshal Goering discussed the Four-Year
Plan: in this connection he remarked:
By and large, Germany was cut off from the world's
sources of raw materials and she therefore had to open up
sources in her own territory by dint of increased
efficiency. This would be done merely in order to make
Germany independent of foreign countries and was not by
any means to serve the purpose of preparing for an
aggressive war.
He then stressed, with great emphasis, that Germany's
foreign policy would have to be conducted in such a way
that war should not ensue under any circumstances. The
present generation was still feeling the effects of a
lost World War; the outbreak of another war would be a
shock to the German people. Furthermore, it was his
opinion that a new war might assume great proportions and
even the outcome of a war against France alone would be
questionable.
In conclusion, he summarised his address by saying that
we had to do, everything in our power to make the Four-
Year Plan a success, and that all hardships caused
thereby must be borne by the people and were justified,
because its success could prevent war.
I point out that I remember all details of this speech so
accurately because this was the first time that I was
informed by a leading personality of these conditions,
which were so important for Germany and because, as a
result, until the war actually started I did not believe
that it would come to a war." [Page 354]
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Stahmer, can you not give the exhibit
number?
DR. STAHMER: Yes, I think it was 13. I shall have a look
once more. No, it was 14.
His attitude toward the Church was expressed by the
defendant Goering in several speeches. In this respect, on
26th, October, 1935, he made the following statement - I am
quoting from "Hermann Goering's Speeches and Essays":
Therefore, there is nothing that warrants our being
blamed in any way in this respect."
I quote only one sentence, No. 8:
[Page 355]
That the defendant Goering took his duty as Supreme Judge
very seriously becomes apparent from an affidavit of Judge
General Dr. Lehmann of 21st February, 1946. I shall read
from this affidavit in Document Book 1, Page 106, Document
27 (Exhibit Goering 6). 1 quote from No. 11:
"The Reich Marshal originally took a negative attitude
toward lawyers. He was evidently influenced by the
Fuehrer. This attitude underwent a change to the extent
that he occupied himself with legal matters of the Air
Force. At the end of the war the Reich Marshal was one of
the high commanders who liked to consult lawyers. He took
special interest in the legal department of the Air Force
and attached great importance to it. He assigned to this
department difficult cases for investigation concerning
which he was sceptical of the reports of other offices."
In passing judgement on individual cases be was inclined
to show occasional leniency in spite of the harshness
demanded of all judges by the Fuehrer. In cases of
treason, and especially in moral crimes, he showed
merciless severity. I know from the records that in
severe cases of rape he would often reverse a judgement
because he considered the death sentence was necessary.
It did not matter whether the woman involved was from
Germany or from the occupied territories. I believe that
I remember at least one case from the records where he
even changed the regular manner of execution and ordered
that the soldier be hanged in the Russian village in
which he had committed the rape.
When presiding at a trial the Reich Marshal was very
lively, but benevolent also in his recommendations for
mercy to the Fuehrer.
[Page 356]
I have often discussed the personality of the Reich
Marshal with his legal adviser, a very experienced, quiet
and conscientious lawyer as well as with the Judge
Advocate General (Oberreichskriegsanwalt) who was
distinguished by the same qualities, and was often with
him. We were of one opinion about the Reich Marshal."
From that "Green Folder" I have cited a whole series of
passages which are to prove my statements. I cannot refer to
them in detail; I should like to draw your attention only to
one very characteristic passage which is on Page 94 of this
"Green Folder," second paragraph:
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(Part 5 of 7)
"To-day we want to secure this peace, and we want the
world to understand this always: that only a Germany of
honour is a guarantor of world peace. Only a free German
nation will keep this peace and will know how to preserve
it.
And on the following page I quote the last paragraph:
"We do not want any war, but we want our honour. We do
not discuss this honour with anybody in this world, that
is a fact, for it is the foundation for the
reconstruction of the entire nation. Only he who has a
sharp sword at his side is unmolested and has peace."
Sir Neville Henderson emphasises, in various passages of his
book "Failure of a Mission," Goering's love of peace. The
passages are quoted again in Document
"I (i.e., Henderson) was inclined to believe in the
sincerity of his (i.e, Goering's) personal desire for
peace and good relations with England."
On Page 83 of the book it says:
"I would like to express here my belief that the Field-
Marshal, if it had depended on him, would not have
gambled on war, as Hitler did in 1939. As will be related
in due course, he took a decisive stand for peace in
September, 1938."
On Page 273, which is the next page, there is the following
sentence which I quote:
"I saw the Polish Ambassador at 2 a.m. on 31st, August,
1939, gave him an objective and studiously moderate
account of my conversation with Ribbentrop, mentioned the
cession of Danzig and the plebiscite in the Corridor as
the two main points in the German proposals, stated that,
so far as I could gather, they were not, on the whole,
too unreasonable, and suggested to him that we recommend
to his Government that they should propose at once a
meeting between Field-Marshal Smigly-Rydz and Goering."
On Page 276 of the book you will find the following
sentences which I quote from the last paragraph:
"Nevertheless, the Field-Marshal seemed in earnest when,
after having been called to the telephone, he returned to
tell us that M. Lipski was on his way to see Ribbentrop.
He seemed relieved and to hope that, provided contact
could only be established, war might, after all, be
avoided."
In February, 1937, the defendant Goering, on the occasion of
an international meeting of war veterans in Berlin, made the
following speech, which is contained in the book, "Hermann
Goering, the Man and his Work," on Page 265, and which is
contained in Document Book 2, Page 42, which is Document 39,
and from which I quote the following sentences:
"There are no better defenders of peace than the old war
veterans. I am convinced that they, above all others,
have a right to ask for peace and to shape it. I
recognise that those men who, weapon in hand, have gone
through four hard years of the hell of the World War have
the primary right to shape the life of the nations, and I
know that the war veterans more than anybody else will
take care to preserve the blessings of peace for their
countries."
I omit two sentences and then quote further:
"But we know that it is a terrible thing, this final
contest between nations. It is my fervent and heartfelt
wish that this Congress may contribute toward the basis
for a true peace with honour and equality of rights for
all sides. You, my comrades, will have to pave the way
for that."
The same desire is evident in the answers given by Lord
Halifax to the questions put him. I now read the following
passages from this interrogatory and I offer the original as
Document 22 (Exhibit Goering 3). It is contained in Document
Book 2, Page 59.
"Did Goering say to you during this discussion:
The next questions concern the conversation with Dahlerus
...
"Did you have the impression that Goering's endeavours to
avoid war were sincere?"
The answer of Halifax is:
"I have no doubt that Goering would have preferred to
enforce the German demands on Poland without war, if he
could have."
At the end of June or the beginning of July, 1938, Goering
made a speech to the Gauleiters at Karinhall which was
distinctly a speech for peace. I am referring to a statement
from Dr. Uiberreither of 27th February, 1946, the original
of which is being presented as Document 38 (Exhibit Goering
4), and is again given in Document Book 2 on Page 37.
"On 25th May, 1938" - says Dr. Uiberreither - that is,
after the plebiscite concerning the reunion of Austria
with Germany which bad taken place on 10th April, 1938,
"I was appointed Gauleiter of Gau Steiermark.
In the solution of the Austrian problem no aggressive action
on the part of Germany is to be seen. It took place in
response to the desires of the majority of the Austrian
population for reunion with the Reich. The defendant's view
of this problem can be seen from the telephone conversation
he had with the Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop on 13th
March, 1938. The record of this conversation has already
been produced under Document 2949-PS (Exhibit USA 75). I
shall quote from this conversation some passages which have
not yet been read. The conversation is contained in Document
Book 1, Pages 55-56. I am going to quote only the following
passages:
"I want to say one thing: If it is said" - this is
Goering's conversation - "that we have used pressure on
the Austrian people and done outrage to her independence,
it can only be said that one thing was put under
pressure, but not by us, and that was the tiny little
Government. The Austrian people is free only now. I would
simply suggest to Halifax or to a few really important
people whom he trusts that he just send them over here so
that they can look at the picture. They should travel
through the country, they can see everything."
And a few sentences later:
"Which State in the whole world is being harmed by our
union? Are we taking anything from any State?"
Then it goes on - I omit two sentences:
"All the people are German, all the people speak German.
Thus there is not a single other State involved."
The defendant Goering - I am referring to Page 11 of the
book, next to the last paragraph - did not only wish to
maintain peace abroad; he also supported the preservation of
peace at home. In this report he declared in a speech he
"On the other hand, however, my compatriots, we also
ought to be generous. We do not wish to practise petty
revenge. After all, we are the victors.... Therefore, let
us be generous, let us realise that we also thought
differently at one time."
And then a little further down:
"... the stronger and freer we feel ourselves, so much
the more generously, the more freely are we able to
disregard what happened in the past and to extend our
hand with complete sincerity in reconciliation."
I further quote from a speech of the defendant on 26th
March, 1938, Document Book 1, Page 37, likewise a quotation
from "Hermann Goering's Speeches and Essays," Document 14. I
quote only one sentence from it:
"... You were great in suffering and enduring, you were
great in standing firm, great in fighting. Now you must
show that you are also great in kindness, and especially
so towards the many who were misled."
His attitude toward the Church the defendant has ...
"It is up to the Church alone whether it wishes to have
peace. We, the Movement, and in particular the Government
and the State, have never attacked the Church, we have
assured protection to the Church and the Church knows
that it enjoys this protection to-day to the fullest
extent.
From another speech of 26th March, 1938, which is also
quoted from "Hermann Goering's Speeches and Essays,"
Document Book 1, Page 41, Document 16, I quote the first and
second sentences:
"We do not wish to annihilate any Church nor to destroy
any belief or religion. All we want is to bring about a
clear separation. The Church has its definite, very
important and very necessary tasks and the State and the
Movement have other tasks just as important and just as
decisive."
I refer further to "a document submitted by a clergyman,
Werner Jentsch, dated 30th October, 1945, addressed to this
Tribunal, Document Book 1, Pages 44 to 46,Exhibit 7.
"Hermann Goering himself instructed his chief adjutant to
give the following answer to a petition on behalf of the
introduction of a special chaplain's office within
Headquarters of the Air Force; that be could not at the
moment do anything because Adolf Hitler had not yet made
a final decision concerning the question of religion, but
that he wished full freedom of religion in the Air Force,
including the Christian denominations, and every member
of the Air Force could choose for himself whichever
chaplain or civilian pastor he desired."
The affidavit from Gauleiter Dr. Uiberreither, dated 27th
February, 1946, deals with the question which I mentioned
earlier and which is contained in
"A few weeks after the action against the Jews, on the
night of 9th to 10th November, 1938 - towards the end of
November or the beginning of December, 1938 - Field-
Marshal Goering again called all the Gauleiters to
Berlin. During this meeting he criticised the action in
harsh words and stated that it had not been in keeping
with the dignity of the nation. Moreover, it had also
seriously lowered our prestige abroad. If the murder of
Legation Secretary von Rath was regarded as an attack of
Jewry against the Reich, then the German Reich had other
means of countering such an attack than appealing to the
baser instincts. In an orderly State no irregular mob
action ought to take place under any circumstances."
In the last paragraph, under No. 2, it says:
"In conclusion, he asked the Gauleiters to use their
entire influence to see to it that such incidents, which
were detrimental to Germany, would not recur in the
future."
I can omit Page 16, paragraph 5, as an explanation on that
has already been given.
"The opinion I have of him is the following:
From the following paragraph:
"The Reich Marshal had himself thoroughly informed
concerning matters which I had to discuss with him. He
devoted an unusual amount of time to these matters. The
conferences, even when there were considerable
differences of opinion, took a quiet and objective
course."
Then from paragraph III:
"Concerning the legal department of the Air Force the
Reich Marshal reserved for himself the confirmation of
sentences in many cases, including all death sentences.
In the course of this trial the prosecution has repeatedly
referred to the so-called "Green Folder," which was
submitted under number 1743-PS. This is not, as the
prosecution maintains, a regulation for the spoliation and
annihilation of the population. Its object was, rather, the
economic mobilisation and the uninterrupted operation of
industry, of procurement and regular utilisation of
supplies, of the transport facilities, in the territories to
be occupied by military operations, with special
consideration of the fact that Russia had no private
enterprise but only a strict centrally regulated State
economy. In addition to that, vast destruction had to be
anticipated in view of the Russian attitude. Nowhere does it
contain an order or directive to exploit certain groups of
the population beyond the necessities caused by the war.
"Among the native population, in this case, meaning
workers and clerical employees, the best possible
relationship is to be established."
Somewhat below, on the same page:
"Good relations with the population must be striven for
in particular also with the workers in the oil industry."
I am now coming to the next paragraph:
"The German Armed Forces entered the war fully respecting
the international conventions....