Eighty-Eighth Day:
Friday, 22nd March, 1946 [Page 359]
With regard to the second part of the evidence, I object to
the documents which purport to show that Great Britain
attacked non-military targets. Where I have been able to
check the allegations, I find there is a complete dispute as
to whether the targets were military or non-military
targets, and therefore I cannot accept the German official
reports as being evidence of any purported value on their
part, and I respectfully submit that unless the Tribunal had
authority from the Charter it ought to take the same line.
I make these two additional points to the points raised by
my learned friends, General Rudenko and Mr. Justice Jackson,
on the general question. I do not want to take up more time
with the argument by developing that point. I will be
pleased to help with any aspect of it.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems to me, Dr. Stahmer, that this matter
stands upon exactly the same footing as the matter upon
which we have just ruled.
DR. STAHMER: That is right. I believe that from this book on
aerial warfare one document is of importance in my opinion;
which is quoted on Page 27. It is merely a statement by the
French General, Armengaud, concerning the fact that the
German Air Force operated in Poland in accordance with the
laws of warfare and attacked military targets exclusively. I
believe there will be no objection to reading at least this
quotation. It is Page 27.
THE PRESIDENT: Page 27 of the trial brief?
DR. STAHMER: Page 27 of the trial brief. There I give a
quotation of General Armengaud, the French Air Attache in
Warsaw of 14th September, 1939.
[Page 360]
DR. STAHMER: There it says: After the outbreak of war the
German Air Force under its Commander-in-Chief, Goering, did
not, by order of Hitler, attack any open cities in Poland;
this has been confirmed by Mr. Butler, the British Under-
Secretary for Foreign Affairs, on 6th September, 1939, and
by the French Air Attache in Warsaw in 14th September, 1939
(Documents 41 and 46 of the White Book). The latter, General
Armengaud, says literally:
DR. STAHMER: May I have a look? It is contained in the
Document Book 46 concerning the bombing war, "Report of the
French Air Attache in Warsaw, General Armengaud." It is
dated 14th September, 1939, and then comes the report, from
which I have already quoted.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. STAHMER: I have submitted it.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. STAHMER: And now I proceed to Page 30 of the trial
brief. And in paragraph 10 I refer to the creation of the
Secret State Police (Gestapo) by the defendant Goering. A
passage is quoted there from the book "Hermann Giving, the
Man and his Work," Document Book 2, Pages 53 and 54. I
submit it as Document 44 and I quote from it the following
passage:
The Prime Minister looked into hundreds of individual
cases in connection with the supervision of political
prisoners. He did not wait until he was asked; the offer
was made on his own initiative.
... On the occasion of the Christmas amnesty of 1933, he
ordered the release of nearly 5,000 prisoners from the
concentration camps. 'Even they must be given a chance.'
It would have been only too understandable if those
released had found doors and gates closed to them
whichever way they turned. That, however, would not be in
keeping with the spirit of this act of mercy. Nobody was
to consider himself shut out. Therefore, Goering, in a
clearly worded decree, ordered that no difficulties by
the authorities or the public were to be placed in the
way of those released. If this action were to have any
point, every effort must be made to take back these
people, who had sinned against the State, into the
community again as full fellow Germans."
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: If we are to examine unsolicited
correspondence or telegrams, if it is to become evidence, I
have a basketful of it in my office that, if that kind of
material could be used as evidence in this case without any
[Page 361]
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Stahmer, have you any other basis?
DR. STAHMER: I have no other basis, and I beg to have your
decision whether this telegram is admissible as evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I do not think we could admit it simply
as a telegram which has been received by you from an unknown
person.
DR. STAHMER: I request your decision; is it being denied? I
am coming to the end, Page 34.
THE PRESIDENT: Of the trial brief?
DR. STAHMER: Page 34 of the trial brief (12). With respect
to the question of whether one could blame the defendants
for having had confidence in Hitler and following him, it is
important to know Churchill's attitude, expressed in his
book "Step by Step," and I am quoting two passages, Document
Book 2, Page 46.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: This is in 1937, before the events with
which we have mainly being dealing here. I do not think it
is very important. Mr. Churchill's speeches are well known,
but I do think that we waste time going into Mr. Churchill's
opinions back in 1937, before the event, when he is
doubtless in the same position as Dahlerus, the witness,
with reference to his knowledge of what was going on behind
the scenes.
THE PRESIDENT: In as much as we have already received this
book and some passages from it, you may state this.
DR. STAHMER: I may state it? Thank you. On Page 187, in an
article, "Friendship with Germany," of 17th September, 1937,
is written:
DR. STAHMER: I did not ... Oh, I see. May I refer to the
quotation on Page 323, which is also a description of
Hitler's personality. I consider it of particular importance
because I attach considerable weight in particular to
Churchill's judgement. It says: "Our leadership must at
least ..."
THE PRESIDENT: But, Dr. Stahmer, do you not think we have
heard sufficient about Hitler's personality?
DR. STAHMER: Yes, but not from that source. If the
Tribunal...
THE PRESIDENT: Presumably the defendant Goering knows more
about Hitler than Mr. Churchill.
DR. STAHMER: If the Tribunal does not wish it to be read,
then of course, I will abide by that wish.
THE PRESIDENT: I think it is cumulative.
DR. STAHMER: Well, in that case I have finished. I may
still, of course, keep in reserve the evidence which I have
not been able to submit up to now, about which I spoke this
morning. I said this morning I had a certain amount of
evidence which I have not been able to submit because I have
not received it yet.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Would this be a convenient time, if
your Honour pleases, to classify the documents which I was
to offer formally for the record?
THE PRESIDENT: I do not quite follow? What documents are you
referring to?
[Page 362]
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: - which your Honour spoke to me about.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I understand they have been handed to
the Secretary and they have been marked.
The affidavit of Halder is US 779. It is offered.
Document 3700-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 780.
Document 3775-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 781.
Document 3787-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 782.
Document 2523-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 783.
Document 014-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 784.
Document 1193-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 785.
Document EC-317 is offered as Exhibit USA 786.
Document 3786-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 787.
Document 638-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 788.
Document 1742-PS is offered as Exhibit USA 789.
M. CHAMPETIER DE RIBES: Mr. President, Dr. Stahmer in his
presentation did not speak of Document 26. It concerns a
note from the German Government to the French Government
concerning the treatment of German prisoners of war in
France dated 30th May, 1940. The reasons which made us
reject the White Book from the discussion make it necessary
to reject this document too. I gather that Dr. Stahmer
realised that and, therefore, did not speak of it again, but
I would like him to be assured that this document has been
definitely rejected from the discussion.
DR. STAHMER: I have not mentioned the document. I withdraw
it.
THE PRESIDENT: I call on counsel for the defendant Hess.
DR. SEIDL (counsel for the defendant Rudolf Hess): Mr.
President and your Honours: Before commencing the submission
of evidence I have to make the following remarks upon
request of the defendant.
The defendant Hess contests the jurisdiction of the Tribunal
in so far as other than war crimes proper are the subject of
the trial. However, he specifically assumes full
responsibility for all laws or decrees which he has signed.
Furthermore, he assumes responsibility for all orders and
directives which he, in his capacity as Deputy of the
Fuehrer and Minister of the Reich, has issued. For these
reasons he does not desire to be defended against any
charges which refer to the internal affairs of Germany as a
sovereign State. That applies in particular to the relations
between Church and State and similar questions. I shall,
therefore, submit evidence only with reference to questions
in the clarification of which other countries can have a
justified interest. This applies, for instance, to the tasks
and activities of the foreign organisation of the N.S.D.A.P.
Beyond that, evidence will be submitted to the Tribunal only
in so far as this is necessary to ascertain the historical
truth. This applies, among other things, to the motives
which caused Rudolf Hess to fly to England and to the
purposes for which he was doing it.
The evidence which I have prepared is collected in three
document books. Considering the acceleration of the trial
desired by the Tribunal, I shall forgo the quoting of any
documents whatsoever from the first book and ask the
Tribunal to take cognisance only of those parts of the
document book which have been marked in red. I shall only
read the affidavit which is at the end of the document book,
and that is the affidavit of the former secretary of the
defendant Rudolf Hess, Hildegard Fath, and I shall read,
furthermore -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Seidl, if you are passing from your
opening remarks and going to deal with the documents, I
think it is right to point out to you that there can be no
challenge to the jurisdiction of this Court here. Article 3
provides that the Tribunal shall not be challenged by the
prosecution or by the
[Page 363]
DR. SEIDL: There will furthermore be read from the second
volume the record of a conversation between the defendant
Rudolf Hess and Lord Simon, which took place on 10th June,
1941, in England. So as to prevent interruption in the
reading of the documentary evidence, I shall to-day only
read the affidavit of the witness Hildegard Fath, Page 164
of the document book. The affidavit reads as follows:
Beginning in the summer of 1940 - I cannot remember the
exact time - I had, by order of Hess, to obtain secret
weather reports about weather conditions over the British
Isles and the North Sea, and to forward them to Hess. I
received the reports from a Captain Busch. In part I also
received reports from Fraulein Sperr, the secretary of
Hess, with his liaison staff in Berlin.
Hess left a letter behind on his departure by air for
England, which was handed to the Fuehrer at a time when
Hess had already landed in England. I read a copy of this
letter. The letter began with words like this: 'My
Fuehrer, when you receive this letter, I shall be in
England.' I do not remember the exact wording of the
letter. Hess occupied himself in the letter mainly with
the proposals which he wanted to submit in England in
order to achieve peace. I can no longer remember the
details of the proposed settlement. I can, however, state
definitely that no word was mentioned about the Soviet
Union or about the idea that a peace treaty should be
concluded with England in order to have the rear free on
another front. If this had been discussed in the letter,
it certainly would have been impressed upon my memory.
From the content of the letter the definite impression
was to be gained that Hess undertook this extraordinary
flight in order to prevent further bloodshed, and in
order to create favourable conditions for the conclusion
of a peace.
In my capacity as secretary of long standing, I have come
to know Rudolf Hess quite well and his attitude towards
certain questions. If I am told now that, in a letter of
the Reich Minister of Justice to the Reich Minister and
Chief of the Reich Chancellery, Dr. Lammers, of 17th
April, 1941, it is mentioned that the Fuehrer's Deputy
had discussed the introduction of corporal punishment
against Poles in the annexed Polish territories, then I
cannot believe that this attitude of the department
headed by Hess was due to a personal decision of his.
Such a proposal would be totally contradictory to the
behaviour and attitude which the Fuehrer's Deputy
displayed with regard to similar questions on other
occasions." [Page 364]
DR. SEIDL: With the permission of the Tribunal, I shall
stop now.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you no other document you wish to
produce?
DR. SEIDL: I beg your pardon? Yes, there are some documents
in Document Book 3, but I should prefer to submit these
documents coherently to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, Dr. Seidl, if you wish it, we will
adjourn now.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 23rd March, 1946, at 10.00 hours.)
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(Part 7 of 7)
"I must emphasise that the German Air Force acted
according to the laws of war; it attacked military
targets only and, if civilians were often killed or
wounded, this happened because they were near these
military targets. It is important that this should be
known in France and in England, so that no reprisals will
be taken where there is no cause for reprisals, and so
that total aerial warfare will not be let loose by us."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Stahmer, what is the origin of that?
"It can be seen from the big Stettin trial, and also from
others, that Goering took ruthless measures against men
who acted on their own authority against his
instructions.
And from the last paragraph I read the second sentence:
"In September, 1934, he ordered the release of an
additional 2,000 prisoners in a second big amnesty."
In this connection I beg to offer a telegram which I
received a few days ago, and I request that it be admitted
into evidence. It is an unsolicited telegram originating
from a certain Hermann Winter, Berlin, W.20, Eisenach Street
118. It has been included in the document book which I
submit. I believe it is the last document in it.
"One can condemn Herr Hitler's system and still marvel at
its patriotic achievement. Should our country be
defeated, I could only desire that we would find an
equally indomitable champion who would give us our
courage again...."
THE PRESIDENT: I only said that you could read it because
you had read from this book by Mr. Churchill, but at the
same time it seems to be absolutely irrelevant.
"Having been advised of the consequences of a false
affidavit, I declare the following which is to be
submitted to the International Military Tribunal in
Nuremberg under oath."
Then come the "Personal Data"; and I am now quoting
literally from figure 2:
"I was employed as private secretary of the Fuehrer's
deputy, Rudolf Hess, in Munich, from 17th October, 1933,
until his flight to England on 10th May, 1941.
I shall refrain from reading the affidavit of the witness
Ingeborg Sperr, Page 166 of the document book.
From the first two volumes of the document book I wish
still, as I have already said, to read only parts from a
discussion between Hess and Lord Simon. However, in order to
prevent the report of this discussion from being
interrupted, I ask permission of the Tribunal to read this
document to the Tribunal next Monday.