One Hundred and Twenty-Third Day:
Tuesday, 7th May, 1946 [Page 164]
A. I cannot tell more to the Tribunal than I have already
told, that is the truth. Let Herr Puhl be responsible before
God for what he put in the affidavit, I am responsible for
what I state here. It is clear that Herr Puhl is now trying
to put the blame on me and to exculpate himself. If be has
done these things for years with the SS, it is his guilt and
his responsibility. I have only spoken to him two or three
times about these things, that is, about the things I have
mentioned here.
Q. You are trying to put the blame on Puhl, aren't you?
A. No. He is blaming me and I repudiate that.
Q. The trouble is, there was blood on this gold, wasn't
there, and you know this, since 1942?
A. I did not understand.
Q. Well, I would like to ask you one or two questions about
two short documents. It will take but a short time. You told
the Tribunal yesterday that you had nothing to do with any
looting of these occupied countries. Do you know what the
Roges Corporation was?
A. Yes. I don't know in detail what they did. I only know it
was an organization which made official purchases for
various Reich departments.
Q. This Roges Corporation purchased on the black market in
France with the surpluses from the Occupation Cost Fund,
didn't it?
A. I was against this type of purchase in the black market.
Q. I am not asking you whether you were for it or against
it. I am simply asking you if it is not a fact that they did
it.
A. I don't know.
[Page 165]
"As, according to information received from Roges, an
increase of purchases is to be expected, it will not be
sufficient to make available the remaining 100 million
Reichsmark in accordance with my letter of 25th April,
1942, but over and above this, an additional amount of
100 million Reichsmark will be necessary."
A. That Roges made such purchases is true. These things have
already been dealt with here in connection with the orders
and directives which the Four-Year Plan gave for these
purchases on the black market. However, these are purchases
which were arranged and approved by the State organization.
What we, especially fought against were the purchases
without limits in the black market. I already mentioned
yesterday that I finally succeeded in getting a directive
from the Reichsmarshal, that all purchases in the black
market were to be stopped because through these purchases,
naturally, merchandise was withdrawn from the legal markets.
Q. You told us that yesterday. That was 1943. There wasn't
much left in France on the black market or white market or
any other kind of market by that time, was there? That
country was pretty well stripped by that time, as is shown
by the letters.
A. In 1943 I believe a great deal was still coming from
France. There was continuous production going on in France
and it was considerable. The official French statistics show
that even in 1943 large quantities of the total production
were being diverted to Germany. These quantities were not a
great deal less than in 1941 and 1942.
Q. Well, in any event I also want you to say something about
Russia, because I understood you to say yesterday you didn't
have much to do with that. Schlotterer was your man who was
assigned to work with Rosenberg, wasn't he?
A. From the beginning I assigned the ministerial director
Dr. Schlotterer to Rosenberg, so that only one Economic
Department, the competent department for the Minister for
the Eastern Occupied Territories, would work in Russia, and
not two.
Q. That is all I want to know. He was assigned. And he
participated in the programme of stripping Russia of
machines, materials and goods, which went on for some
considerable period of time, you knew about it.
A. No, that is not true. This man did not have this task.
These transactions were handled by the Economic Department,
East, which, I think, came under the Four-Year Plan. As far
as I know these transactions were not handled by the
Minister Rosenberg and certainly not by the Ministry of
Economics.
[Page 166]
"Answer: I myself did not participate.
"Question: But you gave the power to act for you in that
connection to Dr. Schlotterer?
"Answer: Yes; Schlotterer represented me in economic
questions in the Rosenberg Ministry."
Q. Do you mean to say that you did not make these answers
that I have just read to you when you are interrogated?
A. Those answers are not correct.
Q. You know, it is very interesting that you told us
yesterday that the answers to the questions put to you by
Major Ganz were incorrect. I put another interrogation to
you yesterday, and you said that was incorrect. Now a third
man has interrogated you, and you say that one is incorrect.
A. No, I say what I said is wrong.
Q. Well, of course, that is what I am talking about.
A. That is wrong.
MR. DODD: I will submit that interrogation in evidence; it
is not in a form to be submitted, but I would like to submit
it a little later, with the Tribunal's permission.
THE PRESIDENT: You will inform us when you do, as to the
number and soon?
MR. DODD: Yes, I will.
I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the other Prosecutors wish to cross-
examine?
GENERAL RAGINSKY: After Mr. Dodd's cross-examination I have
a few supplementary questions to ask.
BY GENERAL RAGINSKY:
Q. Defendant Funk, you testified yesterday that your
Ministry at the time of the attack on the Soviet Union had
very limited functions, and that you yourself were not a
minister in the true sense of the word.
In this connection I want to ask you a few questions
regarding the structure of the Ministry of Economics.
Tell me, are you familiar with a book by Hans Quecke,
entitled The Reich Ministry of Economics? Do you know about
this book?
A. No.
Q. You don't know? Are you familiar with the name of Hans
Quecke?
A. Hans Quecke?
[Page 167]
A. Quecke was ministerial director in the Ministry of
Economics.
Q. And he, of course, knew about structure of the Ministry
of Economics and about its function. Am I right?
A. Certainly. He must have known about that.
GENERAL RAGINSKY: I present this book in evidence to the
Tribunal as Exhibit USSR 451, and you, witness, will receive
a photostat copy of the section of this book, in order that
you can follow me. Please open it at Page 65 and read the
last paragraph. Have you found the passage in question?
A. I haven't found it yet. I can only see -
Q. Page 65, last paragraph of the page.
A. Yes.
Q. Have you found it?
A. The structure of the Ministry of Economics?
Q. It gives the structure of the Ministry of Economics as at
the 1st July, 1941. Your permanent deputy was a certain Dr.
Landfried. Is that the same Landfried whose testimony was
presented by the Defence Counsel?
A. Yes.
Q. I must ask you to follow the text:
A. Just a moment. Where is that?
Q. It is in Section 2, Part Ts. Have you found it?
A. No, there is nothing here about war economy. I do not see
anything about war economy. Foreign Organizations -
Q. Part Ts, sub-paragraph 2.
A. It says nothing about war economy here.
Q. I shall read the entire paragraph into the record. We
shall get down to the Foreign Organizations in good time.
A. This is a special section.
Q. Yes, a special section.
A. - directly subordinate to the State Secretary here is
Section S, Special Section for the Supply of Raw Materials,
basic questions of war economy, basic questions of -
Q. It is precisely about this war economy that I wish to
speak. "He was also in charge of the fundamental market
policy and of economic questions in the border territories."
The Ministry consisted of five main departments. Am I right?
A. Yes.
Q. The third main department was headed by Schmeer Am I
right?
A. Yes.
Q. You had a special department entitled "Elimination of the
Jews from Economic Life." That was in 1941? Am I right?
A. Yes; that was the time we dealt with these matters; that
is, with the regulations for putting them into execution,
and which we discussed at length yesterday.
Q. I ask you to follow the text:
A. Yes.
Q. I presume that you must know the structure of your own
Ministry and you must know that the fifth Main Department
was headed by State Secretary von Jagwitz This department
was in charge of special economic problems in different
countries. The fifth section of this department attended to
questions of military economy connected with foreign
economy. Am I right?
[Page 168]
Q. The same department dealt with special foreign payments
as well as with the confiscation of deposits -
A. I do not understand. This is the Foreign Trade
Department. They merely dealt with foreign exports.
Q. Take the section dealing with foreign currencies. Have
you found the passage?
A. Yes.
Q. You have found that it deals with the confiscation of
deposits. Were you at all connected with the collaboration
existing between your Ministry and the Foreign Political
Department of the NSDAP? Is my question clear to you?
A. Yes.
Q. And your Ministry had a special section dealing with
these matters?
A. This can be explained in this manner. The Under State
Secretary, von Jagwitz, who was the head of this Main
Department, was also active in the Foreign Organization. He
had created a liaison office for himself in the Ministry to
deal with economic questions which came to the Ministry - to
this department, which was the Export Department - the
Foreign Department via the Foreign Organization. This only
concerned von Jagwitz, who at the same time was in the
department for Foreign Organization and maintained a liaison
office.
Q. Then we are to understand that the Foreign Political
Department had special economic functions abroad, and that
it co-operated with your Ministry in this sense?
A. No, that is not correct.
Q. Then why did this department exist?
A. It was not a department, but the Under State Secretary,
von Jagwitz, was at the same time active in the department
for Foreign Organization. I do not know in what position. He
was active in the Foreign Organization before he was taken
into the Ministry by the Reichsmarshal.
Then, he himself created a kind of liaison office between
his department and the Foreign Organization. That is,
frequently economists from abroad, belonging to the Foreign
Organization of the NSDAP, came to Berlin, and these people
came to Under State Secretary von Jagwitz and discussed
their business with him and they reported to him about their
experience and knowledge of foreign countries. I don't know
any more about it.
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(Part 3 of 10)
"In answer to my letter of 25th April, 1942," and so on
... "100 million Reichsmark were put at my disposal from
the Occupation Cost Fund by the Army High Command (OKW).
This amount has already been disposed of except for 10
million Reichsmarks, since the demands of the Roges Raw-
Material Trading Company, Inc., Berlin, for the
acquisition of merchandise on the black market in France,
were very heavy. In order not to cause a stoppage in the
flow of purchases which are made in the interest of the
prosecution of the war, further amounts from the
Occupation Cost Fund must be made available. According to
information from Roges and from the Economic Bureau of
the Military Commander in France, at least 30 million
Reichsmarks in French Francs are needed every 10 days for
such purchases.
It is very clear from that letter written by your associate
Landfried that the Roges Corporation, which was set up by
your Ministry, was engaged in black market operations in
France with money extorted from the French through excessive
occupation costs, isn't it?
"And part of the plan was to take machines, materials and
goods out of Russia and bring them into Germany, was it
not?
And you answered:
"Yes, most certainly, but I did not participate in that.
But in any case it was done."
The next question:
"Question: Yes, and you yourself participated in the
discussions concerning these plans, and also your
representative, Dr. Schlotterer?
A. No, that is not true. This testimony is completely
confused, because Schlotterer was assigned to the Rosenberg
Ministry. He became head of the Economic Department there.
Also, this testimony is not true to this extent, since we
certainly sent more machines into Russia than we took out of
Russia. When our groups came to Russia everything had been
destroyed, and in order to put the economy there in order we
had to send large quantities of machinery and other goods to
Russia.
"Landfried had under him a special department which was
in charge of fundamental questions of supply of raw
materials for the military economy."
Defendant Funk, I am asking you -
"The fourth Main Department was headed by Dr. Klucke, and
this department was in charge of banks, currency, credit
and insurance matters."
Is that a fact?