One Hundred and Sixtieth Day:
Friday, 21st June, 1946
[Page 60]
And I am not suggesting - I repeat I am not suggesting that
this was your responsibility. I am suggesting it is the
responsibility of the regime. I should like to read this
despite its considerable length. "I received - " This is
dated at the Boiler Making Shop, the 25th of February, 1942,
addressed to Hupe by way of Winters and Schmidt.
[Page 61]
The following event provided the cause for this
conversation, which Herr Prior carried on in a very
lively manner, and which lasted about half an hour:
On the 16th, 23 Russian prisoners of war were assigned to
No. 23 Boiler Shop. The people came in the morning
without bread and tools. During both breaks the prisoners
of war crept up to the German workers and begged for
bread, pitifully pointing out their hunger. At the first
midday break, the workers had the opportunity of
distributing the food which remained over from the French
prisoners of war amongst the Russians. In order to
alleviate these conditions, I went to the Weidkamp
kitchen on the 17th, on instructions from Herr Theile,
and talked to the head of the kitchen, Fraulein Block,
about the provision of the midday meal. Fraulein Block
promised me the food immediately and also lent me the 22
sets of eating utensils which I asked for.
At the same time I asked Fraulein Block to give any food
left over by the 800 Dutchmen messing there to our
Russian prisoners of war at midday until further notice.
Fraulein Block promised to do this, too, and the
following midday she sent down a container of milk soup
as an extra. The following midday the ration was short in
quantity. Since a few Russians had collapsed already, I
telephoned Fraulein Block and asked for an increase in
the food as the special ration had ceased from the second
day onwards. As my telephone conversation was
unsuccessful, I again visited Fraulein Block personally.
Fraulein Block refused in a very abrupt manner to give
any further special ration.
Now, regarding the discussion in detail, Herr Prior, two
other gentlemen of the DAF and Fraulein Block, head of
the Weidkamp kitchen, were present in the room. Herr
Prior started by accusing me, gesticulating in a very
insulting manner, of openly taking the part of the
Bolsheviks. He referred to the laws of the Reich
Government forbidding this. I was unfortunately not clear
about the legal position, otherwise I would have left the
conference room immediately. I then tried to make it
clear to Herr Prior, with special emphasis, that the
Russian prisoners of war were assigned to us as workers
and not as Bolsheviks; the people were starved and not in
a position to perform the heavy work with us in boiler
making which they were required to do; and that sick
people were a liability to us and not a help to
production. To this remark Herr Prior stated that if one
was worth nothing, then another was; that the Bolsheviks
were a soulless people, and if 100,000 of them died,
another 100,000 would replace them. On my remarking that,
with such a coming and going, we would not attain our
goal, namely the delivery of locomotives to the Reich
railways, which were continually cutting down the time
limit for delivery, Herr Prior said, 'Deliveries are only
of secondary importance in this case.'
My attempts to get Herr Prior to understand our economic
needs were not successful. In closing, I can only say
that as a German I know our relations to the Russian
prisoners of war exactly, and in this case I acted only
on behalf of my superiors and with the object of
increasing the production which is demanded of us." [Page 62]
Unfortunately, however, Dr. Lehmann took no notice of my
suggestion and, on this account, I naturally had to take
matters into my own hands and therefore told Herr
Soehling to get the feeding of the Russian prisoners of
war organized on exactly the same lines as the French, so
that the Russians could, as soon as possible, carry out
the work they were supposed to do. For the whole thing
concerns an increase in production such as is demanded
from us by the Minister of Armament and Munitions and by
the DAF."
A. It is clear that a worker who has not enough food cannot
achieve a good output. I said yesterday that every head of a
plant, and I too at the top, was naturally interested in
having well-fed and satisfied workers, because badly fed,
dissatisfied workers make more mistakes and produce poor
results.
I should like to comment on this document. The document is
dated 25th February, 1942. At that time there were official
instructions that the Russian prisoners of war and also the
Russian civilian workers who came to the Reich should be
treated worse than the Western prisoners of war and the
Western civilian workers. I learned of this through
complaints from the heads of concerns. In my document book
which dates from the middle of March, 1942 - that is three
or four weeks after this document - there is a Fuehrer
protocol, resulting from my calling Hitler's attention to
the fact that the feeding both of Russian prisoners of war
and of Russian workers was absolutely inadequate and that
they would have to be given an adequate diet and that,
moreover, the Russian workers were being kept behind barbed
wire like prisoners of war and that that would have to be
stopped also. The protocol shows that in both cases I
succeeded in getting Hitler to agree that conditions should
be changed and they were changed.
I must say furthermore that it was a real service on the
part of Sauckel that he now fought against this policy and
did everything he could to have the foreign workers and
prisoners of war treated better and given adequate food.
Q. Well, we will deal with the conditions later. Because I
am going to ask you, if you were not responsible and Sauckel
was not responsible, who was responsible for these
conditions, and you can keep it in mind that that is the
question I am leading up to.
I will show you a new document, 398-D, Exhibit USA 894A, a
statement taken by the British-American representatives
during their investigation of this labour camp at Krupp's.
Well, Document 321-D. I can use that just as well. We will
use Document 321-D, which becomes Exhibit USA 894.
THE PRESIDENT: 894 was the last number you gave us. What
number is this document that you are now offering?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Document 398 was Exhibit 894. 321 will
be 895.
[Page 63]
Q. Now, this relates to an employee of the Reich Railways.
None of our investigation, I may say, is based upon the
statements of the prisoners themselves.
I have been employed by the Reich Railway since 1918 and
have been at Essen West Station since 1935. In the middle
of 1941 the first workers arrived from Poland, Galicia
and Polish Ukraine. They came to Essen in goods wagons in
which potatoes, building materials and also cattle had
been transported, and were brought to work at Krupp's.
The trucks were crammed full with people. My personal
view was that it was inhuman to transport people in such
a manner. The people were squashed closely together and
they had no room for free movement. The Krupp overseers
prided themselves on the speed with which the slave
workers were got in and out of the trucks. It was
enraging for every decent German who had to watch this,
to see how the people were beaten and kicked and
generally maltreated in a brutal manner. In the very
beginning when the first transports arrived we could see
how inhumanly these people were treated. Every truck was
so overcrowded that it was incredible that such a number
of people could be crammed into one. I could see with my
own eyes that sick people who could scarcely walk (they
were mostly people with foot trouble, or with injuries
and people with internal trouble) were nevertheless taken
to work. One could see that it was sometimes difficult
for them to move. The same can be said of the Eastern
workers and prisoners of war who came to Essen in the
middle of 1942."
Do you consider that that, too, is an exaggerated statement?
A. When the workers came to Germany from the East, their
clothing was no doubt bad, but I know from Sauckel that
whilst he was in office a lot was done to get them better
clothes, and in Germany many of the Russian workers
experienced much better conditions than they had previously
known in Russia. The Russian workers were quite satisfied in
Germany. If they arrived here in rags, that does not mean
that that was our fault. We could not use ragged workers
with poor shoes in our industry, so conditions were
improved.
Q. Well, now, I would like to call your attention to
Document 398-D.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, before you pass from that, what do you
say about the conditions of the transports? The question you
were asked was whether this was an exaggerated account. You
have not answered that except in reference to clothing.
THE WITNESS: Mr. President, I cannot give any information
about this transport matter. I received no reports about it.
BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON
Q. Well, I will ask you about Document 398-D, which becomes
Exhibit USA 894. This is a statement by Hofer, living in
Essen. He says:
They were not released even to relieve nature. It was
forbidden for other people to give any help to the
persons locked in, or to release them. [Page 64]
One day, whilst distributing food, I saw how he hit a
French civilian in the face with a ladle and made his
face bleed. Further, when Russian girls gave birth he
never bothered about the babies. There was never any milk
for them so the Russians had to feed the children with
sugar water. When Lowenkamp was arrested he wrote two
letters and sent them to me through his wife. He tried to
make out that he never hit people ...."
Is it your view that this is exaggerated?
A. I consider this affidavit a lie. I should like to say
that among German people such things do not happen, and if
such individual cases occurred they were punished. It is not
possible to drag the German people in the dirt in such a
way. The heads of concerns were decent people too and took
interest in their workers. If the head of the Krupp plant
heard about such things, he certainly took steps immediately
to put a stop to them.
Q. Well, what about the steel boxes? Or do you not believe
the steel-box story?
A. No, I do not believe it, I do not believe it is true.
After the collapse in 1945 a lot of affidavits were drawn
up, which certainly do not correspond to the truth. That is
not your fault. It is the fault of ... well, after a defeat,
it is quite possible that people do make false statements
like that.
Q. Well, I would like to have you examine Document 258 and I
attach importance to this as establishing the SS as being
the guards:
I could often observe from the Krupp factory, during the
lunch break, how the prisoners boiled their underclothing
in an old bucket or container over a wood fire, and
cleaned themselves. A trench served as an air-raid
shelter, whilst the SS guards went to the Humboldt
shelter, which was bomb-proof.
Reveille was at 5 a.m. There was no coffee or any food
served in the morning. They marched off to the factory at
5.15 a.m. They marched for three-quarters of an hour to
the factory, poorly clothed and badly shod, some without
shoes, and covered with a blanket, in rain or snow. Work
began at 6 a.m. The lunch break was from 12 to 12.30.
Only during the break was it at all possible for the
prisoners to cook something for themselves from potato
peelings and other garbage.
The daily working period was one of ten to eleven hours.
Although the prisoners were completely undernourished,
their work was very heavy physically. The prisoners were
often ill-treated at their work benches by Nazi overseers
and female SS guards. At 5 or 6 in the afternoon they
were marched back to camp. The accompanying guards
consisted of female SS who, in spite of protests from the
civilian population, often ill-treated the prisoners on
the way back, kicking and hitting them and abusing them
in foul language. If often happened that individual women
or girls had to be carried back to the camp by their
comrades owing to exhaustion. At 6 or 7 p.m. these
exhausted people arrived back in camp. Then the real
midday meal was distributed. This consisted of cabbage
soup. This was followed [Page 65]
THE WITNESS From the document -
DR. FLAECHSNER: Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: May I hear the answer. I thought the
defendant said something.
DR. FLAECHSNER: May I call the attention of the Tribunal to
the document itself, of which I have only a copy? It is
headed "Before a Military Court, under oath," and there is
an ordinary signature under it. It does not say that it is
an affidavit or a statement in lieu of oath, or any other
such thing, it says only "Further inquiries must be made,"
and it is signed by Hubert Karden. That is apparently the
name of the man who was making the statement.
Then there is another signature, "Kriminalassistent on
probation." That is a police official who may later have the
chance of becoming a candidate for the criminal service. He
has signed it. Then there is another signature, "C.E. Long,
Major President."
There is not a word in this document to the effect that any
of these three people want to vouch for the contents of this
as an affidavit. I do not believe this document can be
considered an affidavit in that sense, or can be used as
such.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr. Justice Jackson? Do you wish to say
anything?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The document speaks for itself. As I
have pointed out to this witness, I am giving him the result
of an investigation. I am not accusing him of personal
responsibility for these conditions. I intend to ask him
some questions about responsibility for conditions in the
camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, there is a statement at the top of the
copy that I have got, "Sworn on oath before a Military
Court."
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes, it was taken in Essen during this
investigation. And of course, if I was charging this
particular defendant with the responsibility there might be
some argument about it. It comes under the provision of the
Charter which authorises the receipt here of proceedings of
other courts.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you got the original document here?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes.
(A document was submitted to the Tribunal.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal sees no objection to the
document being used in cross-examination.
Did you give it an exhibit number?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I should have; it is Exhibit USA 896.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON
Q. I now want to call your attention to Document 382-D.
A. I wanted to comment on the document.
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(Part 5 of 12)
[MR. JUSTICE JACKSON continues his cross examination of Albert Speer] "I received the enclosed letter of the 18th of this month
from the German Labour Front, sent to my private address,
inviting me to the office of the German Labour Front" -
giving its address and date. "I tried to find out
by telephoning the reason for the request. The answer
from the German Labour Front was that the matter was very
important and demanded my personal appearance. Thereupon
I asked Herr Jungerich of the Department for Social
Labour Matters whether I had better go. He answered, 'You
probably don't have to, but it would be better if you
went.' About 9.50 I went round to Room 20 at this place
and met Herr Prior.
It is signed, "Soehling, Office Chief, Locomotive
Construction Works." And there is added this letter as a
part of the communication, signed by Theile:
"I have the following to add to the above letter: After
the Russian prisoners of war had been assigned to us on
the 16th of this month by Labour Supply, I got into touch
with Dr. Lehmann immediately about their food.
I learned from him that the prisoners received 300 gr. of
bread each between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. I pointed out that
it was impossible to last until 1800 hours on this ration
of bread, whereupon Dr. Lehmann said that the Russians
must not be allowed to get used to the Western European
feeding. I replied that the prisoners of war could not do
the work required of them in the Boiler Construction Shop
on that food, and that it was not practical for us to
have these people in the works any longer under such
conditions. At the same time I demanded that if the
Russians continued to be employed, they should be given a
hot midday meal and that, if possible, the bread ration
should be split so that one half was distributed early in
the morning and the second half during our breakfast
break. My suggestion has already been carried out by us
with the French prisoners of war and has proved to be
very practical and good.
Now, I ask you, if the action of the Chief of the locomotive
construction works was not entirely a necessary action in
the interests of production?
"I, the undersigned, Adam Schmidt, employed as
Betriebswart on the Essen West Railway Station and
residing - " stating his residence - "make the following
statement voluntarily and on oath:
He then describes their clothing and their food. In the
interest of time, I will not attempt to read the entire
thing.
"From April, 1943, I worked with Lowenkamp every day in
the armour building shop No. 4. Lowenkamp was very brutal
to the foreigners. He confiscated food which belonged to
the prisoners of war and took it home. Every day he
mishandled Eastern workers, Russian prisoners of war,
French, Italian, and other foreign civilians. He had a
steel box built which was so small that one could hardly
stand init. He locked up foreigners in the box, women
too, for 48 hours at a time without giving the people
food.
Whilst clearing an unofficial camp, he fired on escaping
Russian civilians without hitting any of them.
There is a good deal more of this, but I will not bother to
put it into the record.
"The camp inmates were mostly Jewish women and girls from
Hungary and Roumania. The camp inmates were brought to
Essen at the beginning of 1944 and were put to work at
Krupp's. The accommodation and feeding of the camp
prisoners were of a low standard. At first the prisoners
were accommodated in simple wooden huts. These huts were
burned down during an air raid and from that time on the
prisoners had to sleep in a damp cellar. Their beds were
made on the floor and each consisted of a straw-filled
sack and two blankets. In most cases it was not possible
for the prisoners to wash themselves daily, as there was
no water. There was no possibility of having a bath.
by the evening meal of watery soup and a piece of bread
which was for the following day. Occasionally the food on
Sundays was better. As long as it existed there was never
any inspection of the camp by members of the firm of
Krupp. On 13th March, 1945, the camp prisoners were
brought to Buchenwald Concentration Camp, from there some
were sent to work. The camp commandant was SS
Oberscharfuehrer Rick."
The rest of it does not matter. In your estimation that, I
suppose, is also an exaggeration?