One Hundred and Ninety-Ninth Day:
Friday, 9th August, 1946
[Page 9]
A. I do not know who commissioned him on behalf of the
Luftwaffe.
Q. Well, just look at your own letter on this subject, No.
008, the first document in the English Document Book -
Exhibit GB 586. It is headed "Institute of Scientific
Research for Military Purposes'' dated 19th May, 1944. That
was after Rascher had been removed from the scene. It is to
"SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen SS Pohl,
chief of the WVHA. Subject: Production of a new kind of
spotted fever serum."
Following our application of 30th September, 1943, you
gave your authorisation on 25th October, 1943, for the
carrying out of experiments with a view to producing a
new kind of spotted fever serum, and transferred 100
suitable prisoners to Natzweiler for this purpose. It has
been possible to carry out the experiments very
satisfactorily so far with the help of the Chief of
Department D III, SS Standartenfuehrer Dr. Dolling,
commissioned by you." [Page 10]
A. Yes, I still maintain that. It says here,
"Reichsmarschall, President of the Reich Research Council."
That does not at all mean that Herr Goering had knowledge of
all these commissions of which tens of thousands were given
in his name and on his stationery. The various authorized
persons and offices concerned were competent in this
respect, and that is evident from this document which lists
the chief of the Luftwaffe Medical Services.
Q. The Tribunal has this document before it, so I am not
going to argue with you on it.
THE PRESIDENT: Who signed the letter?
BY MR. ELWYN JONES:
Q. The letter is signed by you, is it not?
A. Yes.
Q. And you mentioned Goering specifically by name, not
simply Reich Research Council. Now just look at Document 009
which refers to that letter of yours. It will be Exhibit GB
587. It is Page 3 of the document book. That deals with the
question as to who is to have the honour of having taken the
lead in these experiments. It is to the "Reichsfuehrer SS,
Personal Staff." Whose signature is at the bottom of that
letter?
A. The personal adviser of the Reichsfuehrer, Dr. Brandt.
Q. It is dated 6th June, 1944, subject: Production of a new
kind of serum against spotted fever.
A. No, I do not remember them. I do not know them.
Q. Do you know who was carrying them out?
A. No, I do not know.
Q. Look at Document 035, which will be Exhibit GB 588, Page
7 of your Lordship's English Document Book. Page 8 of the
German Document Book. That is a letter to the Reich
Plenipotentiary for the Consolidation of German Folkdom, SS
Himmler, Chief of Police, Berlin. That was another arm of
the SS that was interested in these medical experiments, was
it not? Did you hear my question?
A. Yes. The address is completely wrong. It should just
read: The Reich Commissioner for the Consolidation of German
Folkdom.
[Page 11]
A. No, it had nothing to do with it.
Q. I will just read the letter in that case. It has the
initials of Himmler on the top, has it not, H.H.? You are
extremely familiar with them.
A. Yes.
Q. The letter reads:
A. No, I do not know that. I only remember in this
connection that this publication of Dr. Madaus, but without
reference to this rather strange suggestion of Dr. Pokorny,
was sent for comment to Dr. von Wuenzelburg, who was an
authority on tropical plants, and who told us immediately
that such a plant could not be raised here and was not even
available.
Q. I appreciate the difficulties of growing these tropical
plants in Germany, but an attempt was made to grow them, was
it not?
A. I do not know whether an attempt was made.
Q. Grawitz, the Reich Surgeon of the SS, was in charge of
these sterilisation experiments, was he not?
A. I do not know that either. It may be.
Q. Now, apart from these experiments, scientific murder, the
"Ahnenerbe" was also used for political purposes, was it
not?
[Page 12]
A. No.
Q. Just look at Document 1698-PS, will you? It is inserted
before Page 20 of the English Document Book. There is just
one page of it. 1698-PS will be Exhibit GB 589. It is an
annual report dated 17th November, 1944:
MR. ELWYN JONES: Yes, my Lord, I am submitting that it is an
essential part of the machinery of this last instrument.
First of all the perversion of science, secondly of using
that perversion to infiltrate other countries. But I will
not press the matter at all.
Q. Now, Witness, the "Ahnenerbe" was a component part of the
SS, was it not?
A. I gave extensive evidence on this matter before the
Commission. The Germanic Scientific Mission was subordinate
to the SS main office. Dr. Augustin was appointed as expert
for this work which in itself was only a continuation of the
activity of many previous decades. I cannot believe that
this amounts to fifth column activity or misuse of science
for political purposes.
Q. I was asking you generally as to the "Ahnenerbe"; that
is, was it a department of the SS? Look at Document 488-PS,
Page 19A of the English Document Book. That is Himmler's
order with regard to the "Ahnenerbe." I only want to draw
your attention to the first paragraph:
A. I testified on both of these points before the
Commission. Firstly, I said that the "Ahnenerbe" became an
office in the personal staff of the Reichsfuehrer SS in 1942
and that its status as a registered association was not
affected thereby. Secondly, I said that the funds of the
"Ahnenerbe" came from the Ahnenerbe-Stiftung, from funds of
the German Forschungsgemeinschaft, from fees of members,
[Page 13]
Q. The members of the "Ahnenerbe" that were carrying out
these experiments were all SS men, were they not? I want you
just to look at the nominal roll of the "Ahnenerbe."
Document D-962, which is the last document I am putting to
you. It will be Exhibit GB 591. You see the names of
Professor Dr. Walter Rust, SS Oberfuehrer Dr. Hans Brandt?
And you see, as you go down the whole of that list, that
with one exception they are all officers of the SS, are they
not?
A. Yes, but with the difference that it does not show for
what purpose it is drawn up, because it merely lists the SS
leaders in the "Ahnenerbe" with reference to their marital
status and their children. I have already said that
approximately one half belonged to the SS, the other half
not at all.
Q. There are over loo names there of professors and German
doctors connected with your work. They were all with one
exception members of the SS, Were they not?
A. But they are not all scientists; the list also includes
truck drivers. I have to go through the list before being
able to answer the question.
Q. I do not want to go through the whole list, but they are
all SS men, are they not, and they were all employed on the
work of the "Ahnenerbe"?
A. No, indeed they were not. The list includes also honorary
members who only had one research commission.
MR. ELWYN JONES: I have no more questions, my Lord.
THE WITNESS: May I now be allowed to complete my statement?
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better have the re-examination
first.
RE-EXAMINATION
BY DR. PELCKMANN (for the SS and SD):
Q. Witness, what was the purpose of the Ahnenerbe Institute?
Was its purpose medical research or any other research?
Please be brief in your answer.
A. Its purpose was to carry out research in the arts and
sciences, as set down in the statute of the "Ahnenerbe."
Q. Is it correct that the "Ahnenerbe" had about fifty
different research commissions?
A. The "Ahnenerbe" had fifty different research branches,
which were institutes. Beyond that it carried out more than
one hundred extensive research projects.
Q. Did the Institute for Scientific Research for Military
Purposes fall under the research projects and the various
institutes which you have just mentioned?
A. It was a separate group within the "Ahnenerbe." That may
also be seen from the fact that it was financed -
Q. Please do not answer that now. I am now asking you only
if it was one of the institutes which you mentioned. I shall
put other questions and you will have a further opportunity
of speaking.
A. No, it was not one of the institutes I just mentioned.
Q. But you heard that the Institute of Scientific Research
for Military Purposes carried out experiments; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How were the projects and the institutes of the
"Ahnenerbe" financed?
A. The Ahnenerbe-Stiftung administered all the funds which
it received, and made them available to the "Ahnenerbe."
Q. Where did the funds come from?
A. From the means of the German Research Society, from
membership dues, from funds of the Reich.
[Page 14]
A. The participating members. Every German could become a
member of the "Ahnenerbe."
Q. Had they to be SS members?
A. No, anybody could become a member.
Q. You said that the money came from membership dues. Where
else did the money come from?
A. From contributions of industry.
Q. And where did the funds for the so-called Institute of
Scientific Research for Military Purposes come from?
A. Solely from Wehrmacht funds which had to be separately
administered according to the regulations -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, I have got before me the
commission evidence about all this. This is all stated in
the commission evidence, is it not? I have it before me.
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(Part 3 of 11)
[MR. ELWYN JONES continues his cross examination of Wolfram Sievers] "Dear Obergruppenfuehrer:
Then there follow a number of sentences dealing with the
medical aspects and scientific aspects of it. Then a few
lines down:
"I therefore request you to detail persons to Natzweiler
again for the purpose of inoculation. In order to obtain
results which are as accurate as possible and can also be
utilised for statistical purposes, 200 persons should be
placed at our disposal for inoculation this time; it is
also again necessary that they be as far as possible in
the same physical condition as is met with among members
of the armed forces. If imperative reasons should demand
that 200 persons should not be transferred to Natzweiler
for the experiments, the experiments could be carried out
in a different concentration camp, although it would
entail great difficulties. The overcoming of these
difficulties would, if necessary, have to be accepted by
the scientists employed - although the latter are at the
same time very much tied to the University of Strassburg
owing to their lecturing activities - as the results
which will certainly be achieved are of the most far-
reaching importance for maintaining health. As I have
informed you, the direction for carrying out the
experiments is in the hands of the Director of the
Hygienic Institute of the Reich University of Strassburg,
Prof. Dr. Haagen, Major in the Medical Corps and
consulting hygienist to an air fleet, who was
commissioned with this task by the Reichsmarschall the
President of the Reich Research Council. In accordance
with his instructions Dr. Haagen has to report about his
work to the chief of the
Luftwaffe Medical Services; in doing this he has to
mention with whose support the work is carried out; i.e.,
first the Reich Research Council and secondly the SS. I
request your decision which of the following is to be
mentioned as the supporting authority of the SS;
Are you still saying that Goering did not commission Haagen?
(a) the Reichsfuehrer SS or
(b) WVHA or
(c) the Institute of Scientific Research for Military
Purposes of the Waffen SS." "Dear Comrade Sievers: Thanks very much for sending the
copy of your letter of 19th May, 1944, to SS
Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl. I have informed the
Reichsfuehrer SS, as the matter seemed to me to be
sufficiently important. In answer to the question as to
who is to be designated as the supporting authority of
the SS, the Reichsfuehrer SS said that both the SS
Economic Administrative Office (WVHA) and the Institute
of Scientific Research for Military Purposes should be
mentioned. In addition, there is no objection to saying
straight out that the Reichsfuehrer SS has also
personally supported the experiments."
Now what was your connection with the experiments in
sterilisation? Witness, I will just remind you that they
were of three kinds. There were the experiments with the
juice of a plant, Caladium Seguinum, experiments with X-ray
sterilisation, and Klauberg's experiments on sterilisation
without operation. I have no doubt you remember them?
"I beg you to give your attention to the following
statements. I have asked Professor Hoehn to hand this
letter to you and have thus selected the direct path to
you in order to avoid the slower official channels and to
eliminate the possibility of an indiscretion, bearing in
mind the enormous importance, under certain
circumstances, of the idea submitted. Prompted by the
thought that the enemy must not only be conquered but
exterminated, I feel obliged to submit the following to
you as the Reich Plenipotentiary for the Consolidation of
German Folkdom. Dr. Madaus is publishing the results of
his research into sterilisation by medicaments (I enclose
both works). In reading this article, I was struck by the
enormous importance of this medicament in the present
struggle of our people. Should one be able to produce as
soon as possible as a result of this research a
medicament which, after a comparatively brief period,
would cause an unnoticed sterilisation in individuals, we
would have at our disposal a new and very effective
weapon. The thought alone that the 3 million Bolsheviks
now in German captivity could be sterilised, so that they
would be available for work but precluded from
propagation, opens up the most far-reaching perspectives.
Madaus discovered that the juice of the plant Caladium
Seguinum, swallowed or injected, produces after a certain
time, particularly in the males of animals but also in
the females, a lasting sterility. The illustrations which
accompany the scientific work are convincing. Provided
that the idea expressed by me meets with your approval,
the following path could be followed: (1) Dr. Madaus
should not publish any more works of this kind (the enemy
is listening too !). (2) Propagation of the plant (easily
raised in greenhouses !). (3) Immediate experiments on
humans (criminals!) in order to ascertain the dose and
the duration of treatment. (4) The quickest possible
discovery of the formula of the composition of the
effective chemical body in order - (5) To produce the
same synthetically if possible. I myself, as a German
doctor and a retired lieutenant of the reserve in the
medical corps of the German armed forces, undertake
complete silence on the use to which the subject raised
by me in this letter is to be put. Heil Hitler! Signed,
Dr. Ad. Pokorny, specialist on skin and venereal
diseases, University Doctor of Medicine."
Do you know that subsequent to that greenhouses were erected
and these plants were cultivated?
"The Heritage of the Ancestors. Germanic Scientific
Mission Outpost Flanders, SS Obersturmfuehrer (F) Dr.
Augustin. Annual Report. The work is aimed at an
intellectual deepening and broadening especially in the
intellectual strata of Flanders and Walloony. In
following the Germanic line which the SS alone
represents; (1) The liberal-humanistic educational front
must be invaded by winning over occupants of intellectual
key positions. (2) To work against the great German Myths
with the idea of the Great-Germanic Reich-community. (3)
To promote the revival of the consciousness of German
culture and German folkdom with the exceedingly effective
though neutrally camouflaged means of political
propaganda, science, in view of the arrogant French
assumptions of culture and the Flemish inferiority
complex."
Then in the next paragraph it says:
"Those strata of intelligence must be influenced which
have not been reached by the official Press and
propaganda. In university, college, and scientific
policies, in the promotion of students' interests and in
the granting of scholarships, in the selection for
college training and in the education and promotion of
the talented, our work must take effect. To influence and
control the holders of intellectual key positions (e.g.
college professors, associations of lawyers, educators,
students, artists), that is the nature of the task."
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Mr. Elwyn Jones, are you submitting
that this is a crime?
"I, the undersigned Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler,
hereby certify that the Research and Teaching Society
'Das Ahnenerbe' and the 'Stiftung' (Ancestral Research
Institute) are parts of my personal staff and thus are
departments of the SS."
The funds of the Institute for Scientific Research, they
came from the Waffen SS funds, did they not?