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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded! Keren bullshits again
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT
Message-ID: <4pq27n$8bh@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>

Hey, Keren! Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting close this time?

"The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a boiler-room. The steam generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There are terracota floors in the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and children first, were driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over." IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157.

From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Not close inded! Keren bullshits again
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 21:37:45 GMT
Message-ID: <4psm8f$rlv@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>

jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

[Quotes the IMT data from Mr. Giwer, above, and continues...]

"Since you believe quite rightly in the importance of context, perhaps you would be so kind as to provide some here. I have the named volume open to pp. 156-157, but I am sure that our readers would be very interested to know in your own words the source of this description and the context in which it appears.

"Certainly you would not wish to leave the impression that you did something so unoriginal as to copy this from a denier web page and believe it to be a true truth simply because it appeared on a denier web page.

"Is the quote from the red, green, or blue series?
"Is the quote evidence given in testimony, or is it a document?
"Does it form part of an indictment?
"To which defendant does the quote pertain?
"How much text has been replaced by the ellipsis?
"What does the replaced text say?
"Who said/wrote it?
"Did this person claim to have been an eyewitness?

"I know the answers to these questions. Do you?

I do not care. It is quite up to the holohugger standards for this conference. When the holohuggers start posting to the standards you are implying should be used, then there is a cause to call me to that same standard.

Until then, Keren's mythical Polish spies do not explain the lies about steaming people to death. Of course, if Keren is willing to post to your standards that will be a different matter. So far he has simply invented his Polish spies.

BTW: IF in fact you do know the answers you would be doing the subject a great service were you to post the answers. Why do you not? Would you rather play games?

How about a wild guess. You will claim my failure to provide the answers will mean the passage does not exist. You will harp upon this until the passage is forgotten.

July 2, 1996

Mr. Giwer was wrong - I won't claim that the passage doesn't exist - the quote is indeed from the pages cited, but highly edited.. it's not easy, as a friend put it, to compact two pages into a single paragraph, although that's what Mr. Giwer has done.

What Mr. Giwer did not tell you, however, is that the story of the "steam" chambers originated with the Polish Government-in-Exile, in London, and that the citation he so carefully edited was not testimony.

In other words, it is consistent with Dr. Keren's explanation regarding the stories of the use of steam to kill - the people who spread such stories could not get close enough to see exactly what was going on, so they passed on accounts of what they thought was going on.

...and those explanations of what they thought was going on reached their government-in-exile, the Polish Government in Exile, in London.

Mr. Giwer deliberately avoided citing the beginning of this document, on page 154, which tells us that:

"Charge No. 6) In accordance with article 6 of the Charter the Polish Government indicts..."

In other words, the words Mr. Giwer so carefully constructed were not evidence, were not part of any judgement, but were, as we have seen, part of the charges brought by the Polish Government.

I use the word deliberate in describing Mr. Giwer's deception advisedly. He was asked, specifically, to provide precisely the sort of information I have offered here - skeptics are invited to re-read Mr. Morrison's questions, above, and Mr. Giwer's response - but he refused.

Instead, Mr. Giwer tried to leave readers with an entirely false impression - that the words quoted were either testimony, or part of a judgement.

One cannot help but conclude that Mr. Giwer's intent was to deceive. Why would he want to do that?

I leave the answer to that question to you.

Ken McVay
Director, the Nizkor Project

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