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From: Jamie McCarthy

Michael P. Stein wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote:

Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

But isn't the Nizkor leaders like McCarthy and Morris who had succed (very shortly and temporary) to shut up some of the guys they don't like (Giwer among other) with pressures?

Certainly. There was systematic voice and email harrassment of Combase until I was dropped. They even posted a bit on it here. That is called censorship the last time I heard. It is also called a conspiracy.

Statement of fact, little one. There was in fact harrassment of a service provider by the holohuggers.

[Mr. Stein]
One could also make a case that there was harrassment of two service providers by the Giwer: Internet Direct and Volant Turnpike. Giwer had Rack Jite's web pages censored before he was bounced from Combase.

More importantly -- the "Nizkor leaders" and the "holohuggers" had nothing to do with this "voice and email harrassment," this "censorship," this "shut[ting] up some of the guys they don't like," this "pressures," this "harrassment of a service provider."

All fabrications from Giwer and Beaulieu.

In other words, I am hereby calling Giwer a liar (and I'm accusing Beaulieu of acting leading questions without really knowing what he's talking about).

If he would like to prove me wrong, all he has to do is post, publicly, his proof that the "Nizkor leaders" and/or the "holohuggers" have done anything like what he has claimed. I won't read it -- I delete all Giwer's posts unread and see no reason to change this practice -- but I'm sure friendly Usenetters will be sure to email me a copy of such "proof." If it really would be proof, that is.

Of course, he has no proof, so he will find it difficult to do this.

The closest thing he has is his claim that Gordon McFee is really "Marduk," who allegedly harrassed Mr. Giwer's previous service provider. Mr. Giwer's claim has been denied by everyone involved: Mr. McFee, "Marduk," and most importantly an administrator at "Marduk"'s service provider, who actually offered to write a testimonial to that effect!

In short, all we have seen that "proves" Nizkor's supposed affinity for censorship is the ravings of a troll who lies regularly and who cannot provide a single piece of evidence for this claim in particular.

Is that enough for you, Mr. Beaulieu? Because if it is, I see no reason to continue our discussion about the facts of the Holocaust: Himmler's speeches and so on. If your standards of "proof" are really that anemic, there simply would be no point.

URLs of interest:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt/dishonest-text-deletion http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt/lean-mixtures-lie http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt/boycott-giwer http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt/giwer-vrs-idirect.com http://www.nizkor.org/objectives.html

Posted; emailed to Mr. Beaulieu and Mr. Stein.

--
Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-"revisionism" email
to be in the public domain.            I speak only for myself.

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From: Matt Giwer

[Complete citation of Mr. McCarthy's article, shown immediately above]

Such it the claim of the Nizkor Gang of Six. It is questionable, given the other tactics of the gang, that there is any credibility to the denial. Gee, I have discovered deniers. Surprise, surprise.

In other words, I am hereby calling Giwer a liar

For saying what? It appears go be another of the baseless charges of the Gang of Six.

(and I'm accusing Beaulieu of acting leading questions without really knowing what he's talking about).

If he would like to prove me wrong, all he has to do is post, publicly, his proof that the "Nizkor leaders" and/or the "holohuggers" have done anything like what he has claimed. I won't read it -- I delete all Giwer's posts unread and see no reason to change this practice -- but I'm sure friendly Usenetters will be sure to email me a copy of such "proof." If it really would be proof, that is.

I have made no such claim. So you could never read such a claim you brainless fool.

Of course, he has no proof, so he will find it difficult to do this.

You are truly an idiot to accuse me of something I did not say.

The closest thing he has is his claim that Gordon McFee is really "Marduk," who allegedly harrassed Mr. Giwer's previous service provider. Mr. Giwer's claim has been denied by everyone involved: Mr. McFee, "Marduk," and most importantly an administrator at "Marduk"'s service provider, who actually offered to write a testimonial to that effect!

Gee, just how many were involved in that harrassment? Who were the conspirators?

But it appears you are involving his service provider in the conspiracy as Marduk posted matters discussed in a phone conversation between CEOs only a couple hours after the conversation. You appear to be accusing someone of lying here. Which shall it be?

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From: Michael P. Stein

If you have evidence you are welcome to post it. Unedited of course.

In other words, I am hereby calling Giwer a liar

For saying what? It appears go be another of the baseless charges of the Gang of Six.

For saying "certainly" in response to Mr. Beaulieu's text which makes a false allegation against the "Nizkor leaders."

(and I'm accusing Beaulieu of acting leading questions without really knowing what he's talking about).

If he would like to prove me wrong, all he has to do is post, publicly, his proof that the "Nizkor leaders" and/or the "holohuggers" have done anything like what he has claimed. I won't read it -- I delete all Giwer's posts unread and see no reason to change this practice -- but I'm sure friendly Usenetters will be sure to email me a copy of such "proof." If it really would be proof, that is.

I have made no such claim. So you could never read such a claim you brainless fool.

You answered Mr. Beaulieu's question with an affirmative. What did you think he was saying?

Of course, he has no proof, so he will find it difficult to do this.

You are truly an idiot to accuse me of something I did not say.

You did not correct someone else's false and derogatory allegation against certain people but instead answered "Certainly" to it. Clearly deceptive. And you did it deliberately.

The closest thing he has is his claim that Gordon McFee is really "Marduk," who allegedly harrassed Mr. Giwer's previous service provider. Mr. Giwer's claim has been denied by everyone involved: Mr. McFee, "Marduk," and most importantly an administrator at "Marduk"'s service provider, who actually offered to write a testimonial to that effect!

Gee, just how many were involved in that harrassment? Who were the conspirators?

That is a question to ask people who make allegations or otherwise make statements to get people to think that there has been harrassment or conspiracy. Any person making such a claim bears the burden of proof. But you know that.

But it appears you are involving his service provider in the conspiracy as Marduk posted matters discussed in a phone conversation between CEOs only a couple hours after the conversation.

Mr. Giwer appears to be seeing things.

You appear to be accusing someone of lying here. Which shall it be?

If you have evidence to support an allegation that any "Nizkor leader" has applied pressure to shut you or anyone else up, successful or no, you are free to post it. Verbatim, uncut, with article ID, email headers, or URL. If you have none, I will be forced to conclude you have deliberately worked to promote a false idea that such pressure existed.

Posted/emailed to Mr. Beaulieu, who is invited to post his evidence or retract.

--
Mike Stein   

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From: Jamie McCarthy

If you have evidence to support an allegation that any "Nizkor leader" has applied pressure to shut you or anyone else up, successful or no, you are free to post it. Verbatim, uncut, with article ID, email headers, or URL. If you have none, I will be forced to conclude you have deliberately worked to promote a false idea that such pressure existed.

And that's the bottom line.

Of course, since such evidence has not been forthcoming in the last few months, there's no reason to believe it will surface now. It's clear that this fellow has lied again. And this time, has backpedaled and claimed that I made a "baseless charge" when I accused him of lying -- which was pretty stupid considering that his own lie was quoted just a few lines above:

But isn't the Nizkor leaders like McCarthy and Morris who had succed (very shortly and temporary) to shut up some of the guys they don't like (Giwer among other) with pressures?

[Giwer]
Certainly.

But lies, followed by backpedaling, appear to be a pattern with this man.

The real question is, Mr. Beaulieu, why do you believe him?

Posted; emailed to Mr. Stein and Mr. Beaulieu.

--
Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/

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