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From: Matt Giwer
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: June 14, 1996

Richard J. Green wrote:

[Matt Giwer] "Of course everyone agrees, even our chemists, that there is no chemical reaction and that they would be grey not blue. But then this man saw blue. How can we explain an eyewitness seeing something he could not see?"

As Mr. Giwer knows Mr. Mazal has documented that one of the forms of Zyklon-B was silica gel impregnated with HCN. Has Mr. Giwer never seen blue silica gel?

[Giwer] "And everyone also knows that is pure bullshit and that the Zyklon B was HCN in a diatomite carrier. It is all right there on Nizkor. (Use the powerful search engine to find it for yourself. I have posted it here once.)"

Is it Mr. Giwer's assertion that there is only one form of Zyklon B? Yes or no?

[Giwer] "I am asserting there is only one form described in the holocaust stories. If there is another form, Nizkor has it well hidden.

If you know of another form used, please post the evidence. Don't forget the pea sized silica gel.

Pressac states in the text accompanying Photo 20, p. 21

"500 grams can of Zyklon-B without its label, containing small bluish pellets of porous silica, known as ERCO, which absorbed the hydrocyanic acid together with 5% of a lachrymogenic and sternutatory warning agent. These are the *crystals* of Zyklon-B. Other fixing agents were also used, either a reddish-brown granular mass (Diagriess), or disks of ligneous fiber. (Photo 8 which Eichmann knew, probably because he had seen them used in the disinfestations of the Auschwitz main camp blocks before or at the time of his deciding with Hoess on their homicidal use."

Yes, I know that they are not really crystals. Neither are opals. Nonchemists can be forgiven for the confusion.

Too bad your pharmacist never read the Degesh publication. Too bad this supposed pharmacist never took enough chemistry courses to learn something covered in high school chemistry. It appears he is at best an old time apothecary dealing in healing herbs rather than what we would call a pharmacist in the US.

Think of if. A pharmacist who never took a chemistry course. It almost makes one question his claim to being a pharmacist.

In fact, no almost about it. If it is a pharmacist he would not have made that mistake.

Rich Green:
"As for size, Mr. Mazal has helped us out a bit:

quote

Silica gel can be purchased in a huge variety of mesh sizes. In my (now quite remote) days designing gas chromatographs, we used silica gel in a 100 mesh size as a column packing for the separation of organic and inorganic gases. 100 mesh is a very fine powder.

Silica gel is also used as a dessicant and is commercially available in mesh sizes from 4 mesh to 28 mesh. What do "mesh sizes" mean?

The U.S. Bureau of Standards defines the following:

Size 4 = 4.75mm
Size 6 = 3.35mm
Size 8 = 2.36mm
Size 10 = 2.00mm
Size 12 = 1.70mm

etc.

It is unclear what any US standard has to do with the subject but it would appear by this scale the size would be about 000000 to get up to pea sized.

Rich Green:
"One can also purchase bulk silica gel in lumps the size of an orange.

Giwer can determine this for himself. If he is the "great scientist" that he claims to be, he will have access to one of the standard laboratory supply catalogues. I have, for this particular exercise, used the: THOMAS SCIENTIFIC: Scientific Apparatus and Reagents
(609) 467-2000

The references to silica gel are on pages 561, 1881 and 1882.

But we also know that the coloration comes from the addition of cobalt chloride to indicate it is dry. As it was being soaked in HCN it would never be water wet and there would be no reason to add the dessication indicator and therefore it would not appear blue. But you know that.

Rich Green:
A curious addition to the silica gel story is that it is also available as an "indicating type, changing color from deep blue to pink as relative humidity increases from 20% to 60%.

As I said, you know the indicator is added when it is used as a dessicant.

Thank you for posting the expert opinion of a pharmacist who managed to prove that crematoria were constructed.

However, by now you should have read what I have posted from the long secret Degesh publication. And when you read it you will know why the people claiming to have it would not post it. It clearly states that the carrier is either wood pulp or diatomite. No silica gel at all.

There is other information in it. Most of which points to the reason it has never be posted, for example the ten hours to air out after it is used.

From: Mark van Alstine
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Zyklon B.jpg [0/1] Re: As blue as blue can be June 14, 1996

In article <4pqp1p$itq@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

[snip]

So read it and weep. It is not blue on its own and only added if used as a desicant. Therefore all of these claims of blue pellets in all the "eyewitness stories are pure fabrication based upon a common misconception. And at best they would only look blue when the HCN was gone, not when fresh.

"cobaltus chloride - CoCl2, CoCl2*6H20 A compound whose anyhydrous form consists of blue crystals and sublimes when heated, and whose hydrated form consists of red crystals and melts at 86.8C; both forms are used as an absorbant for ammonia in dyes and as a catalyst. Also known as cobalt chloride." (McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Chemical Terms, p.95.)

The Giwer-Troll's assumption is, of course, that cobalt chloride was added to Zyklon B. Was it? What evidence indicates that is was? If it was, what would its purpose be? A desicant? A catalyst? It is interesting to note that cyanides are slowly hydrolysed to (CO3)2- and NH3. Would adding cobalt chloride to Zyklon B retard hydrolysis and increase the shelf like of Zyklon B?

Or is there another explination that would account for the blue color?

Giwer:
"So we are left with fabricated stories from eyewitnesses as always.

From Directives for the Use of Prussic Acid (Zyklon) for the Destruction of Vermin (Disinfestation) Translation of Document No. NI-9912 Office of Chief Counsel of War Crimes, page 17 of Pressac's Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers:

[also at: http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith/incon/zyklon.html]

"ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess - Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers."

Hmmm, "small blue cubes (Erco)."

Seems like DEGESCH, the manufacturer of Zyklon B disagrees with the Giwer-Troll. Hardly suprising as the Giwer-Troll is a disagreeable sort of person, which reminds me:

Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semitic troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing fights. While he can sometimes sound superficially plausible, he has profusely and consistantly lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and generally conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

URL ../../../../ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt

Mark

From: Mark van Alstine
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Zyklon B.jpg [0/1] Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: June 18, 1996

In article <4pv4ca$pjt@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer wrote:

You continue to miss the point....

On the contrary, I understand the "point" quite well: The point was that the Giwer-Troll doesn't have the slightest clue if cobalt chloride was actually added to Zyklon B for some reasons or if the blue color of Erco was due to some other factor.

That "point" still stands.

[Giwer-Troll teeth gnashing snipped]

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"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts."

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
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